Teachers Placed on Leave for Showing Berg Video

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<font size=4>Teachers Placed on Leave for Berg Video</font>

May 15, 11:20 AM (ET)


VILLA PARK, Calif. (AP) - At least three teachers have been placed on paid leave following complaints they showed students the videotaped beheading of American Nicholas Berg in Iraq.

Villa Park High School English teacher Stephen Arcudi allowed students to use his classroom computer to see video footage of Berg being executed, school officials said.

"Because of our concern over his judgment and the way he handled the situation, we have put him on leave while we continue to investigate," said Orange Unified School District Assistant Superintendent Cheryl Cohen.

More on this Story (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040515/D82J3AIG2.html)

[Samcat]

Hey, nothing wrong with that...Might has well show the students what really is going on in the world....Now if it were elementary students, I could understand the problem...What year were the students?

[Politicalmom]

I would be outraged. Parental permission should be obtained for anything like this.

[Wolfcounsel]

If the class was not about politics or world events, then some teachers are not doing their job of teaching the pimplebutts the proper subject matter.

[SunnyBrook]

I don't care what the class was about; the teachers were irresponsible to show the beheading to minors. If my kids had been in the class, I would definitely have had a conference with the teacher ASAP.

[Wolfcounsel]

"I don't care what the class was about; the teachers were irresponsible to show the beheading to minors." --Sunnybrook

Yes, the school should stick to counseling pregnant bimbettes about aborting their unwanted babies without notifying the parents. My mistake.

[Estragon]

I see no mention of specific policies or rules that were violated. If they were, then disciplinary action is in order.

I have to wonder, though, why it is that we don't mind seeing graphic depictions of prisoner abuse, but we are thought unable to handle pictures of people jumping off the WTC, or a man being beheaded by terrorists.

It's not pretty, but it happened. It is something difficult to comprehend without seeing at least the still images {which are all I've seen; they are enough}.

[2Cent]

From the article:
"Arcudi, 46, said he discouraged a student from trying to find the Berg video on the Web. But his students said Arcudi gave out the Web address where the video could be found.

"He said: 'This is the enemy we're up against and these are the things you don't get to see,'" said Naim Dujak, 17. "He did not force anyone to watch it."

This does sound a bit like double-speak to me. Perhaps dangling the proverbial 'forbidden fruit'. He discouraged students, yet he gave out the web address, and made his computer available.
I dunno. Tough call. Stories like these, imo, are of the kind that make journalists look stupid: They raise more questions than answers.

Was the teacher teaching a class at the time?
Was the teacher simply making his presently unused room available to those who wished to use his computer?
Was the teacher perhaps overseeing a study hall? (A classroom where no particular course is being taught: The students are studying, reading, doing homework, etc.)
Why were the other two teachers put on leave?
Were they simply in the same room and didn't put a stop to it?
Were they allowing students who should have been in their class to go over to another room and have a look see?

(I could come up with a cazillion more.)

All I know is that the teacher didn't force anyone to watch the video. Should he have allowed it?
Jury is still out. I'm thinking on it.

[Wyatt_Junker]

At thirteen, I had already seen FACES OF DEATH (http://www.facesofdeath.com/facesofdeathi.html) a hundred times. I still remember the poker chips they used on the deathrower to keep his eyes in when they chaired him. The state smoked him like a marlboro, even his ears gave up steam.

This is high school, not grade, grammar nor preschool. Not only is it appropriate that they see it, it should be mandatory viewing in order to graduate. That's what pubes are for; turning them into men and women, at least outwardly. We should not keep them back from what mother nature intended at this point. They need to know the truth of the world, otherwise they will never know.

For the folks with well-muscled imaginations, your run-of-the-mill Shakespeare is, by far, much worse.

[SunnyBrook]

[ QUOTE ]
Wolfcounsel said:
"I don't care what the class was about; the teachers were irresponsible to show the beheading to minors." --Sunnybrook

Yes, the school should stick to counseling pregnant bimbettes about aborting their unwanted babies without notifying the parents. My mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they shouldn't do that either.

[ QUOTE ]

I have to wonder, though, why it is that we don't mind seeing graphic depictions of prisoner abuse, but we are thought unable to handle pictures of people jumping off the WTC, or a man being beheaded by terrorists.

It's not pretty, but it happened...


[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't have wanted a teacher to show them the prison abuse/sex photos either.

I am well aware that for many teenagers, this stuff is tame when compared to their normal viewing fare, but that should be decided by the parents, not by the schools.

As a parent, I may very well allow my kids to see the abuse photos and/or the beheading videos, but I would want it to be at the time and place of MY choosing, with MY commentary and parental discourse added to the occasion. Ditto with sex ed; I want my kids learning about sex from their parents instead of the school nurse.

[ QUOTE ]

... It is something difficult to comprehend without seeing at least the still images {which are all I've seen; they are enough}.


[/ QUOTE ]

Nonsense. There are still people in our society who don't own TVs; my own parents have chosen not to have television in their home. Are you suggesting that they can't understand these matters by reading or listening to the radio? I beg to differ. I would, however, venture the opinion that anyone who relies solely upon visual news sources is not receiving a complete understanding of the issues. Of all news sources, I deem photographs/videos the least informative.

After all, photography has only been available for about 150 years, and video for less than 100. Are you implying that prior to these inventions, people were unable to comprehend world events, murder, atrocities, etc.?

[SunnyBrook]

May I add though, that suspending the teachers seems extreme to me. A reprimand was in order, but the suspensions are overboard.

[Wolfcounsel]

"After all, photography has only been available for about 150 years, and video for less than 100. Are you implying that prior to these inventions, people were unable to comprehend world events, murder, atrocities, etc.?" --Sunnybrook, to Estragon

Some people have to be smacked with the truth. When I was a kid of SIXTEEN, I did not realize that people bleed like stuck pigs when shot, and that there is blood splatter everywhere. Then I saw it. Reality sinks in and it might stink, but to many people, it is a wake -up kick in the ass. http://freeconservatives.com/smilies/death2.gif

[Human_Error]

Well...I am sure the teacher was convicted for some reason to show it. But what are people to do? Really....Our media has buffered the American public so much that they don't have a clue what is going on. The images are too painful...too graphic....or whatever, but the fact of the matter is...that truth can sometimes be very painful and ugly. Evil is among us whether we accept it, agree, or believe it. Evil is not a swift warrior but a patient coward who hides behind the vulnerable and the weak and those that choose to look the other way.

If these were high school students then I am sure there was a lot of talk and curiosity of it in class that day. I am sure some of the students dont' have computers at home and we all know the only way you are going to view the barbaric act is via internet at this time.

I personally feel this...I feel there should have been a network set up on tv for all to view every day since 911. The whole network could have been showing the 911 images, the ugliness of war and also educating the Americans Islam and the core of the conflicts in the middle east. That way parents could view and allow their children to be subjected to the images and the truth on their own judgement call. But the government hasn't done that. Its totally buffered the public. Sure they say its to respect the families of the victims of this war but know this too, they don't want American Anger to rise up and start chaos. They know this shit is BIG BIG BIG. And its going to get even BIGGER! And really what good is censored truth if and when these savages invade OUR soil again? Do Americans truly believe they are secure? Do they truly have such a false sense of security that life will evolve back to pre 911? How equipt are our children on what the hell is going on???? Would they recognise the enemy if they came face to face? How responsible have parents really been when most are in denial of the facts themselves? I have heard adults say...."I can't watch the news, its too depressing" Well...I reply WELCOME TO WAR!

To me, we are a free society..but are we? 911 changed so much. Terror is out lurking around us like a lion ready to attack our throats. NOT only us but also OUR children and their futures. I know so many of us don't want to deal with it. I know many of us want things like they use to be. But this video of Nick Berg is equivelant to another building being crashed into our hearts. The reaction is anger and invasion. Its cruel and barbaric.....ITS unbelievable unless YOU SEE IT WITH YOUR OWN EYES.

With all the conspiracy going around now as the investigation unfolds, what are the kids hearing? What are the kids absorbing on this matter?
Should we santize everything just to cope? Do your children even know the name Daniel Pearle? Do they know who wants to cut their throats too if given a chance? How prepared are our children whom will have to face the next generation of terrorist? Do you have any idea how these Islamic's raise their children? They teach them by age two to hate all Jews and Christians. Here is a site you can see for yourself on what is on their TV's http://www.memri.org/video/index.html SEE it for yourselves.

How many of you and your children are educated on ISLAM and the KORAN and the HADITHS? I find it amazing how many didn't even understand what it was prior to 911. But how much have you educated your own children on it? How much time have you taken yourself to understand the evil motives of this cult that is seeping into every crook and cranny of our world? Do you realise that last year more muslims voted than ever before? Do you realise the scope of the invasion on our political system? Do you want your children or your grandchildren to bow down to Allah??....or if they don't have their throats cut like Daniel Pearle or Nick Berg? Their Quran teaches them this. Their Quran demands it of the muslims. Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

I understand the policy of schools and its a shame the teachers didn't send a request form home to each child's parent to sign asking for permission to show this in their class. That was their mistake YES, but I tell you, this week anger has risen. No one that has watched that tape cannot feel their soul shake with anger and helplessness and outrage. I am sure anger won out over good judgement in these teacher's minds. But don't understestimate the truth that lies in that video. For it is ISLAM's CORE and AGENDA. It is the future reality for all infidels in this world as Islam is working for world dominance and to look the other way or to deny its there is foolish.


If you seek to know yourself, in time of war, seek first to know your enemy. If you don’t, you won’t be here to agonize or complain later. All your conscientious objections will go unheard, and your noble attempts at self-examination will avail nothing now will it?

And remember, yes this was death up close. This tape was watching Islam as the Grim reaper kill an innocent human being. But remember our kids are much more tough than you think. On friday nights on many stations in the USA you can watch 'Jason' hack a few or you can watch horrible images of butchery in the name of special effects. Think how many teenagers watched the movie Scream? All I am saying is, I feel the govt should set up a network and by choice Americans can choose to see the images of war and know their enemy if they want to and to share what they want to with their children. IMHO, American teens should not be subjected to a fantasy image of death based as it is ONLY through video games and Hollywood illusion sometimes, because its quite decietful actually if you really think about it and the reality is this, too many Americans out there do not have access to a computer.
I say allow it on a chosen broadcast so that Parents around the USA have a choice to view it and let them make their own decisions about what they want their children to see.

[DesertFox]

Far as I'm concerned the dude did nothing wrong. I wouldn't have dunnit because I don't know how kids will react and that matters to me, but that's the only reason. I think Americans SHOULD see the video. Anybody got a URL for it?

[Beowulf]

A brutal movie yes but our youth needs to understand who it is we're dealing with, coward Arab extremist who don't care about death and like to kill YOU because "you are an American."

I can understand how some people would be offended at this showing but considering how uninformed youths are (many going off to college and becomeing Liberals) maybe this is needed. As I often say, "the best medicine for a problem is often the one that's the hardest to take."

[Wolfcounsel]

http://www.military-secrets.com/

Try this. It's not the version from Ogrish. This one is about 5 and a half minutes long.

[Beowulf]

I'm speechless and enraged. These Arab animals must die!

bortaS blr jablu'Di'reH QaQqu'nay'-Klingon Proverb

[Little Bit Farm]

There was a time when people watched hangings in the town square. We live in a world where people daily watch things like Braveheart, The Patriot, and The Last Samurai. Granted, I understand that this was a real man losing his life. However, if we are willing to recreate death on a daily basis, and watch it for entertainment, then shouldn't we be willing to give some kind of recognition to a REAL death? This man deserves to have his fellow countrymen remember his sacrifice. It WAS a sacrifice, as reall as those who died in the Twin Towers which we watched over and over again.


Little Bit farm

[Politicalmom]

So apparently people on this forum are against parents' rights?

The point is, it is up to the PARENTS to decide what is right for their children, not anyone else.

[Wolfcounsel]

"So apparently people on this forum are against parents' rights?" --Politicalmom

You're right. High schoolers are still children and should be shielded from the truth about the animals who may some day slice their heads off with a dull knife.

[Politicalmom]

I don't want some public employee making ANY decisions about my children.

I don't want YOU making decisions about what my children are ready to see.

I would be all over that teacher, and all over that school.

[Wolfcounsel]

"I don't want YOU making decisions about what my children are ready to see." --Politicalmom

Then I certainly hope they are not attending a public school. I hear those administrators counsel pregnant girls to have abortions without having to notify their parents. But that's not my decision anyway.

[BarryG]

i don't have aproblem with this. teenagers need to see whats really going on out there, and they need to be ready to fight the coming Armageddon against islam/satanism.

[Wolfcounsel]

"...and they need to be ready to fight the coming Armageddon against islam/satanism." --BarryG

I agree. I hope the teenagers at least have an idea of what type of enemy they will be up against.

Know your enemy as you know yourself.

[Beowulf]

Oh I don't want others telling me what my kid will see or do or whatever. I'm a parent too. But, I do know all to many parents who shield their kids from everything in attempt to make it seem as if the world is all good and no evil. My mother-in-law is one of them. I often find that a hard dose of reality makes people see things for what they are, not this fantasy world that some folks make the world to be. If my son saw this video, I wouldn't attack the school system, rather, I would take the time to explain it and the animals that did it.

[SunnyBrook]

Again, I repeat...

[ QUOTE ]
SunnyBrook said:
...As a parent, I may very well allow my kids to see the abuse photos and/or the beheading videos, but I would want it to be at the time and place of MY choosing, with MY commentary and parental discourse added to the occasion. Ditto with sex ed; I want my kids learning about sex from their parents instead of the school nurse.


[/ QUOTE ]

If my children were in high school (my oldest is 11), then I would probably be showing them this internet footage, along with appropriate discussion of the topic. As it is, my children DO NOT watch Braveheart, The Patriot, etc., even though dh and I have seen both of them. At this point, we have made the choice not to expose them to R rated material. THAT IS OUR RIGHT! Even if my kids were in high school, I would object to any teacher showing them R rated material, however newsworthy it may be. Whether and/or when they see it should be MY decision.

[Samcat]

[ QUOTE ]
SunnyBrook said:
Again, I repeat...

[ QUOTE ]
SunnyBrook said:
...As a parent, I may very well allow my kids to see the abuse photos and/or the beheading videos, but I would want it to be at the time and place of MY choosing, with MY commentary and parental discourse added to the occasion. Ditto with sex ed; I want my kids learning about sex from their parents instead of the school nurse.


[/ QUOTE ]

If my children were in high school (my oldest is 11), then I would probably be showing them this internet footage, along with appropriate discussion of the topic. As it is, my children DO NOT watch Braveheart, The Patriot, etc., even though dh and I have seen both of them. At this point, we have made the choice not to expose them to R rated material. THAT IS OUR RIGHT! Even if my kids were in high school, I would object to any teacher showing them R rated material, however newsworthy it may be. Whether and/or when they see it should be MY decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take it they do not distribute condoms at your high schools? And you have no problem with the sex education that they will be teaching your children and that your children may be exposed to liberal teachings of such?

[Longhorn_Platinum]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/serious3.gif <font color="blue">SunnyBrook is a certified teacher who stays home to homeschool her children.</font>

[TheRealLobo]

[ QUOTE ]
Wolfcounsel said:
"So apparently people on this forum are against parents' rights?" --Politicalmom

You're right. High schoolers are still children and should be shielded from the truth about the animals who may some day slice their heads off with a dull knife.

[/ QUOTE ]

WC, you may be stepping over the line here.

I haven't seen the video, and it's MY choice. I also haven't shown it to my 8 year old son, and that's ALSO my choice.

I listened to about 3 seconds of the audio, and can't shake the sound of Berg's screaming.

I've seen worse at two aircraft crashes, but I don't want to watch this. That doesn't mean my son doesn't know the truth about what is going on in the world.

I pretty much disagree with anything a schoolteacher does, as they are often wrong, though there are exceptional teachers.

However, it should STILL be the parent's choice to decide what is shown/taught/presented to their children, not the school, not the teacher, not the school board, not the state, and CERTAINLY not the federal government.

If the video had depicted a castration, would you have felt that the children should have seen it at the teacher's urging?

Me and Political_Mom aren't "shielding" our children from the truth, but are trying to present the truth in OUR way, without someone else trying to force their view of the truth upon us.

[Wolfcounsel]

"WC, you may be stepping over the line here.. . .I listened to about 3 seconds of the audio, and can't shake the sound of Berg's screaming." --TheRealLobo

You people do whatever you think is right for your children, and do it 100 percent because they are worth it. I think I did. Don't bother watching the full 5 plus something minutes of the video if three seconds of Nick's scream are enough. Or don't bother watching it at all. That is enough for most people anyway. And I do not recommend watching it if you have a heart condition either.

[Giz]

As a parent, I would find it a bit disturbing if it were shown to my children. I can't stomach the sounds and sights of someone being killed, that is why I don't allow that type of movies in our home. Yes, there is a time for reality and a time for shielding, and as much as I hate to say this, school is not the place for showing beheadings. That is something we should leave for CBS or NBC! Goodness the Boston Globe enjoys publishing faulse pictures of our soldiers raping Iraqi women, and showing all the graphics too. I was not shown the video of JFK's head being blown during his assassination, so why should I allow my children to view beheadings? I do understand some parents allow their children to view horror movies with this type of message, but I choose not to.

Giz

[EveningStar]

Villa Park is two miles up the street from me. This was front page news in yesterday's local paper.

[Wolfcounsel]

"I do understand some parents allow their children to view horror movies with this type of message, but I choose not to." --Giz

Parents had better have the right to control what their children watch. I don't believe the teachers did anything wrong if the subject was current events. If the subject was the three R's, or some other subject unrelated to world events, then students' time had better be utilized for the proper subject. I find it odd though, that parents sign a consent form for their children to have sex education, but parents are not required to be notified in the case of an abortion. Something stinks somewhere. Anyway, the Nick Berg video is a horror movie and reality. Any way one sees it, a man is dead at the hands of cowards.

Welcome.

[SunnyBrook]

[ QUOTE ]
SunnyBrook said:
...Ditto with sex ed; I want my kids learning about sex from their parents instead of the school nurse...

...I would object to any teacher showing them R rated material, however newsworthy it may be. Whether and/or when they see it should be MY decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
SamCat said:I take it they do not distribute condoms at your high schools? And you have no problem with the sex education that they will be teaching your children and that your children may be exposed to liberal teachings of such?


[/ QUOTE ]

How many times do I have state my position on this before you grasp what I am saying?

I do not believe it is appropriate for the schools to be distributing condoms. I seriously doubt this is happening in our local high school, although I know it happens in schools across the US on a daily basis. In this part of the country, you would have to drive several hours to find an abortion clinic as well.

Back to my main point here which is simply this: whether or not the school has sex ed, condom distribution, etc. has nothing to do with the fact that a teacher showing an r-rated violent bloody beheading to a group of minors is violating the parents' rights.

What do you expect me to say? "Well golly, gee willakers Vern, I sure don't approve of them there teachers showing my 14 year old a gory video of some Islamofascist nut sawing off a young American's head, but since them there teachers are allowed to demonstrate to my 14 year old how to put a condom on their partner's banana, then I guess they can just do whatever they durn well please. Isn't it just shameful how them there schools is just going to the dogs? Guess there's just nothin' we can do to stop it from happenin'."

Since when did 2 wrongs = right?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif

[SunnyBrook]

[ QUOTE ]
TheRealLobo said:
...it should STILL be the parent's choice to decide what is shown/taught/presented to their children, not the school, not the teacher, not the school board, not the state, and CERTAINLY not the federal government...

...Me and Political_Mom aren't "shielding" our children from the truth, but are trying to present the truth in OUR way, without someone else trying to force their view of the truth upon us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well stated.

Our 4 kids are between the ages of 7-11, and we don't allow them to see R rated movies; we usually don't allow them to see PG-13 either, but made an exception of LOTR I and II after it came out on DVD. First, however, my dh spent several months reading the Tolkien trilogy to them at bedtime. After that, we allowed them to see small portions of the movie at a time and showed them the footage documenting how the movie was made. Then, we let them see the whole movie, but we edited out the most gruesome and scary parts or had them cover their eyes on certain scenes. Now, they are able to see the whole movie, although a couple of them still turn away at a few points. Throughout this process, we were able to verbally prepare them for what they would visually experience, and to mentally prepare them for the deeper messages conveyed through the medium of film. Without this preparation, my oldest and my third child would likely have had nightmares, and my second child would not have appreciated the themes of the film to the fullest of his capacity.

My point is merely this; parents usually know their kids better than anyone else. We know their strengths and weaknesses, their tolerances and breaking points. We know what they are capable of handling maturely. I will resist any action by the publick skool establishment that replaces my choice with a teacher's.

[TheRealLobo]

[ QUOTE ]
Wolfcounsel said:
"WC, you may be stepping over the line here.. . .I listened to about 3 seconds of the audio, and can't shake the sound of Berg's screaming." --TheRealLobo

You people do whatever you think is right for your children, and do it 100 percent because they are worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do, and absolutely.

[ QUOTE ]
I think I did. Don't bother watching the full 5 plus something minutes of the video if three seconds of Nick's scream are enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen worse, but mostly after the fact. (C-5 crash site at Ramstein, Italian aerobatics team at Ramstein, I won't go into detail, but grant me the fact that I've seen enough blood and seperated limbs to last a lifetime)

I refuse to watch it, but I also know the truth of what the monsters did to Berg.

[ QUOTE ]
Or don't bother watching it at all. That is enough for most people anyway. And I do not recommend watching it if you have a heart condition either.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point to you my friend, is that it should be a PARENT'S choice to educate their children on EVERYTHING.

I had a discussion with one of my former co-workers that went like this:

Her: "So (Lobo), why shouldn't schools be teaching kids sex-ed?"
Me: "Because it's the parents job to teach them that."
Her: "What if the parents don't want to?"
Me: "What if they do, and at their own pace?"
Her: "But...but..."

[Rink]

Thats bout it Lobo.

[Rhino]

Uh guys, if you read the article carefully, you'll find that Arcudi did not show the video to his students. He apparently gave them the web address, something they could easily find themselves, and supposedly allowed them to use a classroom computer to view it. The use of the computer seems to be the only contentious issue here.

[Wolfcounsel]

"My point to you my friend, is that it should be a PARENT'S choice to educate their children on EVERYTHING" --TheRealLobo

I completely agree. I homeschooled my kids in addition to their going to public schools. I am wiser now and my kids are self-sustaining and not welfare bums or people to be led around like sheep, and they will fight to defend their country, and will not whine like little liberal assholes. But I go off-topic. Sorry.

[Rhino]

[ QUOTE ]
kitten said:
......But they do not have the right to show any child that without parent permission......

[/ QUOTE ]
They didn't, or at least the teacher named didn't. Read the article again.

[Rhino]

Read my previous post, mom. I already pointed all that out about what happened in the classroom. I don't disagree with kitten. I just wanted the facts straight. Being indignant at something that didn't happen hardly advances our cause. Our ire should therefore be directed at the stupidity that actually did take place.

[Rhino]

Yeah. I covered that when I used the term "contentious issue". There is also the fact that we have no details on what the other two teachers did. They may in fact have shown it for all we know.

[Samcat]

[ QUOTE ]
Wolfcounsel said:
"My point to you my friend, is that it should be a PARENT'S choice to educate their children on EVERYTHING" --TheRealLobo

I completely agree. I homeschooled my kids in addition to their going to public schools. I am wiser now and my kids are self-sustaining and not welfare bums or people to be led around like sheep, and they will fight to defend their country, and will not whine like little liberal assholes. But I go off-topic. Sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good for you!

[Samcat]

[ QUOTE ]
Rhino said:
Read my previous post, mom. I already pointed all that out about what happened in the classroom. I don't disagree with kitten. I just wanted the facts straight. Being indignant at something that didn't happen hardly advances our cause. Our ire should therefore be directed at the stupidity that actually did take place.

[/ QUOTE ]

My question is did a student ask where the site could be found? How old were these students?

[Rhino]

No problem here.

Samcat, I don't know. I was curious why only one of the three teachers was named too.

[TheRealLobo]

[ QUOTE ]
Wolfcounsel said:
"My point to you my friend, is that it should be a PARENT'S choice to educate their children on EVERYTHING" --TheRealLobo

I completely agree. I homeschooled my kids in addition to their going to public schools. I am wiser now and my kids are self-sustaining and not welfare bums or people to be led around like sheep, and they will fight to defend their country, and will not whine like little liberal assholes. But I go off-topic. Sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]

BRAVO! 'nuf said.

[Warlady]

I wish every American would watch the video starting at least from 17 years on up. Then perhaps all those "give peace a chance" idiots would understand what we're up against.

[Gone_with_the_Wind]

I don't think idiots are able to understand anything. The idiots.

I predict this generation of idiots will eventually get old enough to retire as idiots and then expect Social Security to send them monthly checks.

[freedumb]

When I was a kid of SIXTEEN, I did not realize that people bleed like stuck pigs when shot, and that there is blood splatter everywhere.

Good point. There is hardly any blood in the Nick Berg video though. The cowards must have killed him first and then cut his head off after he was dead. You can see the camera jump cut right before they start cutting too.

Probably not a bad thing to give highschool kids the choice to see the video if they want to or not. Probably good to let them see what happens when you go wandering aimlessly around Iraq with nothing but an Israeli passport and an orange jumpsuit.

SunnyBrook said:
...Ditto with sex ed; I want my kids learning about sex from their parents instead of the school nurse...

I'd rather learn about sex from my school nurse than my parents. Know what I mean?