ACLU Wants Cross Removed from LA Seal

[HarvickFan29]

The ACLU is now going after the seal of the city of Los Angeles. And using the Redlands as the example to do it. Guess they won't be happy until they systematically destroy the symbol in all states, one by one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon122.gif

ACLU threatens county suit
Group wants cross removed from seal

By Troy Anderson
Staff Writer


Nearly half a century after Los Angeles County adopted an official seal with a tiny cross in it, the local American Civil Liberties Union chapter declared it unconstitutional and threatened on Monday to sue to have it removed.

The ACLU Southern California chapter said the "Latin cross" on the seal is a "sectarian religious symbol" and reflects an "impermissible endorsement of Christianity."

The seal was adopted 47 years ago but the ACLU never challenged it. The organization said its complaint was prompted by phone calls it received after the city of Redlands recently agreed to remove a cross from the city seal.

The letter to the county is similar to one the ACLU sent to Redlands.

"Los Angeles County is the most diverse county in the United States, and if the city of Redlands decided it had to do something, we think the county of Los Angeles should also," ACLU Executive Director Ramona Ripston said.

Douglas W. Kmiec, chairman and professor of constitutional law at the Pepperdine University School of Law, said there is little in U.S. Supreme Court precedents that would "demand such erasure of history."

"I think this is unfortunately an all-too-commonplace effort to revise history and to expunge from the historical record all evidence of religious belief," Kmiec said. "It would be hard, it seems to me, to conclude that anyone seeing the seal of Los Angeles County would feel coerced to believe in a particular religious faith."

The county seal was designed by former county Supervisor Kenneth Hahn, the father of Los Angeles Mayor James Hahn, and was adopted by the Board of Supervisors on March 1, 1957.

The cross represents the influence of the church and the history of the missions of California, which dates back to the 1700s when missions were built in San Fernando and San Gabriel, according to the county's Web site.

For the rest of this story (http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20954~2169384,00.html)

[Wolfcounsel]

I can't wait for the dipshits to start demanding that the federal government remove the word God from money. Let's see if the public servant weenies cave in to the cheerleading assholes.

[HarvickFan29]

Honestly, I don't want the ACLU's rolling ball of shit to build. It needs to be squashed right there in Los Angeles but I don't know if they will actually stand up to the ACLU or not.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/serious3.gif <font color="blue">Imagine how many millions of dollars it's going to cost the city to change its name, once the ACLUeless realizes what "Los Angeles" means.</font>

[Wolfcounsel]

Noo-o-o! Platinum. Don't ruin the big surprise for the little weenies.

[HarvickFan29]

They aren't offended by that, LP. Just more proof they are out to solely get the Christian symbol. They are doing this, and successfully, state by state.

As long as we keep our crosses to ourselves, they have no pproblem but if we actually practice freedom of religion by wearing a cross, they're gonna attempt to stop that too.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

[ QUOTE ]
HarvickFan29 said:
They aren't offended by that, LP. Just more proof they are out to solely get the Christian symbol.

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/serious3.gif <font color="blue">Okay, fine. Just imagine how many millions of dollars it's going to cost Las Cruces, NM to change its name, when the ACLUeless realizes what "Las Cruces" means.</font>

[Longhorn_Platinum]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/serious3.gif <font color="blue">Just imagine how many millions of dollars it's going to cost Sacramento to change its name, when the ACLUeless realizes what "Sacramento" means.</font>

[Longhorn_Platinum]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/serious3.gif <font color="blue">Just imagine how many millions of dollars it's going to cost Corpus Christi to change its name, when the ACLUeless realizes what "Corpus Christi" means.</font>

[Longhorn_Platinum]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/serious3.gif <font color="blue">Just imagine how many millions of dollars it's going to cost St. John the Baptist Parish, LA to change its name, when the ACLUeless realizes who St. John the Baptist was.</font>

[HarvickFan29]

I guess you aren't getting it? The symbol not words, is what they're after. They want to eradicate it.

[Wolfcounsel]

The US Navy weenied out some years back when it caved in to religious clowns wanting to get the name of a submarine changed. The submarine's name was Corpus Christi. The name was changed to City of Corpus Christi.

http://www.free-definition.com/USS-City-of-Corpus-Christi-SSN-705.html

[Longhorn_Platinum]

[ QUOTE ]
HarvickFan29 said:
I guess you aren't getting it?

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/serious3.gif <font color="blue">Excuse me? I think you're the one who's not getting it. How is the symbol, the cross, any more significant than the names of Christian objects? The objective of the ACLUeless is to eradicate all traces of Christianity from our sociëty, &amp; we certainly can't have place names derived from a Christian heritage, if that is to happen. I don't know why you want to argue with me over this.</font>

[Wolfcounsel]

Santa Fe is next? Holy Faith.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

[ QUOTE ]
Wolfcounsel said:
Santa Fe is next? Holy Faith.

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon115.gif <font color="blue">I knew I was leaving one out.</font>

[HarvickFan29]

How is the symbol, the cross, any more significant than the names of Christian objects?

Good question, and the one I asked too. But they (ACLU) don't seem to care about that just the symbol. Sorry, don't mean to argue but this is two cities in one month, and it makes me mad.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

[ QUOTE ]
HarvickFan29 said:
Good question, and the one I asked too. But they (ACLU) don't seem to care about that just the symbol.

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/serious3.gif <font color="blue">Give it time, they will. I'm sure it has something to do with incrementalism. Bear in mind that it won't cost the taxpayers as much to change a seal as it will to change the city's name. Think of how many places the words "Los Angeles" appears as compared to the seal. Changing the name would piss off everyone involved, &amp; that would be millions of people.</font>

[Rink]

Dont forget 'San Francisco'

[Rink]

Or San Diego

Or San Antonio

(Yea I know theyr'e in other states but then again since when has the ACLU stuck to one state?

[HarvickFan29]

There are places all over the country in every state with names related to Christianity. It would keep the ACLU busy for about 100 years.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

[ QUOTE ]
Rink said:
Dont forget 'San Francisco'

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon127.gif <font color="blue">San Fagcisco is Christian?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon115.gif Well, if you're going to include saints, there's always St. Joseph, MO; St. Martinville, LA; St. Louis, MO; Port St. Lucie, FL; San Bernadino, CA; San Augustine, TX; St. Augustine, FL; San Patricio Co., TX, &amp; nine parishes in LA named after saints.</font>

[Human_Error]

LA means City of Angels and they haven't said anything about the name yet but give them time. LOL

ACLU stands for ANITCHRIST CUMMING LEFTY UNITE

The ACLU is totally Atheist...even the Jewish lawyers they have are Athiest Jews. What is really bad is they are knitted in with the liberals and the immigrants and the damn muslims.

Now ask yourself after 40 something years or so why the athiest suddenly want to bitch about a cross? Its because the hate for Christians rises every day in America and I tell you the Christians better stand up and say F*** YOU to these damn groups like the ACLU that are making it clear as crystal they want to stomp out anything to do with Christ.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

[ QUOTE ]
Human_Error said:
...Christians better stand up and say F*** YOU...

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/serious3.gif <font color="blue">I can't imagine Jesus saying that.</font>

[Timberwolf]

You're right of course....He'd probably just make them all mute so's they couldn't argue in court. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif

[HarvickFan29]

The BIG question is when will this $hit ball stop rolling? It just seems to pick up speed and stench.

[Human_Error]

Well NO Jesus wouldn't say that.....

But you know what....can't the Christians hire a lawyer that can?

ALSO on this subject....have the ACLU attacked the red cross?

http://www.pacificsites.com/~arcmc/images/erv4.jpg

I mean I wonder if they will go after the big red cross....hmmmmmm

[Rink]

I guess they'll have to get creative in renaming those cities in order to push their athiest agenda upon the rest of us, even though this nation was based on a Judaeo/Christian foundation built upon a Constitutional representative republic.

The types like the ACLU would change this to make it a autocracy based on the priviledged few and God would be out of every area of human life, including private homes.

their great socialist utopian dream.

[HarvickFan29]

Human Error, who knows but I doubt they'll do anything to the Red Cross because they help people here and abroad. Plus, the Red Cross changes the symbol to the red crescent in most Islamic countries, and the Red Shield of David is used in Israel.

[Wyatt_Junker]

NTM the Red Pentagram at Marilyn Manson concerts.

Perhaps the Red Cross should use magnetic vehicle signs and in a very caring and deliberately PC manner, slap on the most appropriate removable sign each and every outing.

[HarvickFan29]

Wyatt, I was thinking the same shit. Wouldn't want to offend people's asses while we are coming to their aid! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif PC Aid!

[Hottjohn]

I expect that they will be highly successful, as they got the cross removed from the city symbol in Edmond Oklahoma several years ago, and one would think that if it would be safe anywhere, it would be safe in Oklahoma.

[Kathy29]

Los Angeles is going to put up a helluva fight. I think the ACLU may have met it's match. The ACLU failed in Las Cruces New Mexico when they filed a lawsuit to make the city change its name.

All those missions are now owned by the State. All those missions still have religious services in their chapels. Religious services on state property! Holy ACLU! Not only that, but they ALL have gift shops where they sell religious items.

I hope someone somewhere stops the ACLU. It seems that creeping incrementalisim is good, as long as it's someone else's increment. Sooner or later, it steps on YOUR increment, and then it's not so good anymore.

[HarvickFan29]

Los Angeles is going to put up a helluva fight. I think the ACLU may have met it's match.

Oh, that's great news, Kathy! Do you have a link?

Yep, sounds like when the ACLU starts cutting into money, they will get a fight.

[Wolfcounsel]

It is easy to stop the ACLU. Just throw the clowns dressed in judges' robes and sea lawyers out on their asses. Isn't it against the law to impersonate a judge or lawyer?

[HarvickFan29]

I have just learned from Fox that the city is going to vote on it next week. Te ACLU has given them 2 weeks to remove it or get sued.

Someone has got to stop the ACLU or this will never end.

Here's a new article. Make sure ya click on the link at the end of Fox's article to see the report on media player. CLICK (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,121039,00.html) for article.

[Rink]

a citizen should sue the ACLU for even attempting such a moronic tax-wasting stunt.

[HarvickFan29]

Well, Rink, I'm sure they're coming to a town near you. Go for it!

[Rink]

its Alrady IN my town dear, ever heard of the 'Columbia River Gorge National Scenic Area Act of 1986?"

If you haventm ya might wanna, cuz if anything thats as nanny-state as you'll get when it comes to property rights

[HarvickFan29]

Uh, I'm pretty sure the topic is the ACLU trying to eradicate the cross, and how you think taxpayers should sue. When they come to your state doing the same with the cross, will YOU sue them?

[Wolfcounsel]

"Te ACLU has given them 2 weeks to remove it or get sued." --HarvickFan29

What are those weenies going to do if they get told to stuff a sock in it? Call the UN for back-up? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon51.gif

[Rink]

No they'll shop around for a sympathetic judge that'll kowtow to their every whim.

as for common folk suing the ACLU, what about suing on the right of free religious expression in the public venue?

seems these twits are the only ones havin a hissy fit about that cross.

and since history notes nobody for many years have ever had any complaint about that cross being there, to me its just a matter of a bunch of meddlesome outsiders comin in and trying to impose themselves upon a town that was perfectly happy with the situation untill the ACLU started muckin into things there.

And now whats needed is the entire townsfolk get up and out and complain loudly and mightily against the ACLU meddling in their town's affairs.

That might tell the ACLU they are not really wanted and another good idea would be to have the entire town do a class action lawsuit against the ACLU if they even try to sue the city, Since it is the townsfolk that has to pay the taxes for that city to even have a government to begin with, in effect what the ACLU is doing is suing the people of that city over that cross, because the people of that town pay their taxes for that city government, hence the people in the end will have to bear the burden of such a lawsuit and to me that would constitute fraudulent waste of taxpayers money for a petty outside special interest group meddling in that town's affairs when for many years nothing and nobody ever complained one bitty bit about that cross.

So the evidence is there to prove the ACLU is barking up the wrong tree and making a mountain out of a molehill, and had it not been for their notice of that cross, things would have been perfectly fine in that town.

In effect the people of this nation needs to wake the heck up to the ACLU and fight them with the same lawsuit fire the ACLU is doin.

[Antigone]

LA County caves to the ACLU.

LA County to remove cross from county seal after ACLU challenge

The Associated Press
Last Updated: June 2, 2004, 01:25:15 AM PDT

LOS ANGELES (AP) - County supervisors have decided to remove a tiny cross from the county's official seal rather than face a potential lawsuit from the American Civil Liberties Union.
The supervisors held an emotional debate Tuesday before deciding to replace the cross with another image - possibly a representation of a Spanish mission or California's indigenous tribes.



Complete Story Here (http://www.modbee.com/state_wire/story/8653726p-9526933c.html)

[Wolfcounsel]

So one asshole or a little group of assholes in faggot robes can decide what is in the best interest of the people? This is indeed becoming a nation of weenies. I will not join them.

[Rink]

now it begins, the ACLU enboldened by this will continue to assault Christian symbols till there is none left in America, then will the New Age of hell against Christians will be ushered in after God is pushed out the door.

Lock n load peeps!

[Wyatt_Junker]

The Judaeo Christian-phobes at the ACLU have remarkable, nearly bionic eyesight that would even make Steve Austin the 6 Billion Dollar Man(adjusted for the pre-Carter inflationary index at prime after market closing) squint like a near sighted peeping tom. That cross on the seal is so...tiny, and yet so INFURIATING and OFFENSIVE! I don't know what I'm gonna do! Ahhhhhhhh.

Anything remotely religious, even the letter 't' in small caps, and lawsuits with salami-sized erections start slapping on giant, litigious condoms and beating judges, bailiffs and stenographers over the head with 'em. Hmmmm. The letter 't'. Gonna have to watch that. Its rather cross-like, but no less large than the one on the LA Co. seal, as seen below.

http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/la-county-seal.gif

LA already caved apparently, fittingly, like one of Pamela Anderson's inflatables. That's one tough city.

[Wolfcounsel]

Isn't the fish the secret symbol of the early Christians? ICHTHUS.

[Rink]

I was thinking the same thing WolfC

[Rhino]

Give them time WC. They'll get to it. You can only threaten so many lawsuits at once, ya know.

[DoctorDoom]

The "T" in "COUNTY" is very much like what was called the "tau" cross.

http://www.toad.net/~flc/images/tau.jpg

[ QUOTE ]
The Tau Cross (in the shape of the Greek letter "T") was an implement of deadly torture used by the Romans in Palestine during the 1st century. This style of cross is believed to be the type used to crucify Jesus.

[/ QUOTE ]
The Tau Cross (http://www.toad.net/~flc/cross.html)

Why are the asshats at the Atheists, Communists, and Liberals Union not alert to such deliberate, flagrant violations of church-state separation?

[Wolfcounsel]

Now those pendejos are going to try to get the letter T changed into something else. What else is there that we can flaunt at the assholes?

[Rink]

the Celtic Cross, the Russian Orthodox Cross LOL

[Faithful_Servant]

[ QUOTE ]

now it begins, the ACLU enboldened by this will continue to assault Christian symbols till there is none left in America, then will the New Age of hell against Christians will be ushered in after God is pushed out the door.

Lock n load peeps!


[/ QUOTE ]

Better yet, kneel and pray...

[DoctorDoom]

This is fully in keeping with last-days prophecy. Expect it to get worse.

[Rink]

I know we are Witnessing the last days Doc, its a fact, and matter of time before hell hits with full fury against those who profess faith in Christ.

[Rink]

and I am wondering (cringes as she thinks of this) that with a democratic president in office the hell wont start?

after all Satan cant do his work with Conservative Christian Republicans at the helm of the mightiest nation on earth, Satan needs a useful idiot that lies and flip flops just as much as ole scratch does to start the full scare persecution of the followers of Christ.

And I REALLY cringe just thinking about that, i dont want that to happen, no.

[HarvickFan29]

Antigone, thanks for posting an update. My computer is broke and I'm having to visit a friend to get online until I can get it fixed.

This madness with the ACLU is not gonna stop because it looks like no one is willing to stand up to them regardless of the outcome. I would have at least tried. Plus, it seems it would have been cheaper than just caving. *shrugs* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif