And You Wonder Why Kids Don't Learn

[Etaoin]

Forcing Good Teachers to Fade to Black
By Nancy Salvato
July 6, 2004

Well, it's that time of year again; the anxiety has begun to eat away at the pit of my stomach as I find myself worrying about whether or not I'll be hired to teach this fall. This time I've taken a different tack in that I'm also applying for jobs outside of the classroom. I've chosen to do this because, admittedly, I feel less than enthusiastic about my chosen profession.

Wherever I am hired, I'll fill a role at a new school where I will have to jump through hoops to prove that I am excited about the opportunity I've been given. I will have to speak guardedly so not to reveal my true conservative nature (which is politically incorrect in the liberal environs of education). I'll have to sit through faculty or team meetings wondering how anything being discussed is remotely relevant to the main purpose for which I'm there; the students and the curriculum(s) that I'm teaching.

I'll finally get comfortable in my job and my surroundings; when one administrative change or complaint from an unsatisfied parent who thinks I didn't meet her child's needs, might result in losing the support of my supervisors; who given the choice will prefer someone less controversial, less passionate in his/her convictions about what should or shouldn't take place in the classroom.

The unease that wears away at me is not from fear about doing an inadequate job, it stems from the knowledge that wherever I end up, I'll be signing a teaching contract that is good for only one year and doesn't have to be renewed. Until tenured, the reason for non renewal doesn't have to be given. Being offered a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year contract is basically at the whim of whoever is in charge one, two, or three years from my date of hire.

What kind of teacher am I? I work through lunch. I can be incredibly organized. Sometimes I have lessons planned not just one day in advance, not even one week in advance, but months' ahead of schedule. This doesn't mean I won't amend or change them. I'll change a lesson from one class to the next when it didn't work the way I expected it would. To an evaluator, it might seem that I was flying by the seat of my pants; however, I feel it's a better option to experiment midstream than to forge ahead with something that has proven not to work.

The Rest Here (http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/nsalvato/2004/ns_0706p.shtml)

[Maggie_T]

Well, I can't speak for the rest of the country, but here in Maine, kids don't learn because the only thing teachers do is bleat for more money "for the children". So the legislature complies, we get more taxes ... and the money that was meant to be "for the children", for "books, computers, new schools," is suddenly and mysteriously derailed and ends up in the teachers' coffers in the form of more benefits.

Big mystery, that one. No one was ever willing ... pardon me, I mean able to solve it.

And so it goes.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/serious3.gif <font color="blue">I guess I'm fortunate to be in Texas. We don't have to worry about nonrenewal of our contracts, at the whim of the administration. Of course, corrupt administrators can find other ways to pressure teachers to leave, but that's extremely rare. As for pressure on teachers to pass nonperforming students, it would appear as though a lot of Texas administrators are coming to the reälization that social promotion will only lead to disaster when the TAKS tests roll around. Things are getting better here.</font>

[freedumb]

in Maine, kids don't learn because the only thing teachers do is bleat for more money "for the children".

Almost $434 million spent of the war in Iraq by Maine alone.
That would pay over 7,500 extra teachers for a year.

[Peachdiane]

Well, I can't speak for the rest of the country, but here in Maine, kids don't learn because the only thing teachers do is bleat for more money "for the children".

When I was *thinking* about putting Brent in a HI class, we toured the school. We didn't even have an IEP yet. But when I walked in the class they already had his name on a desk and his supplies. Yup! They wanted money!

[DesertFox]

Freedumb, you named yourself well. The problem in America's public school classrooms isn't that we need more teachers. There are plenty of teachers. It's that those teachers who know how to get results aren't allowed to.

BTW: Several of us who have responded in this thread are public school teachers.

[freedumb]

Freedumb, you named yourself well. The problem in America's public school classrooms isn't that we need more teachers.

Thanks,

I imagine that specific problems would differ from state to state, county to county. Classes which are too big (too many kids)to teach properly is a complaint which I've heard from teachers more than a few times.

Some problems can be solved by throwing money at them.
That's the only point which I was trying to make with the $434 million comment.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Some problems can be solved by throwing money at them.
That's the only point which I was trying to make with the $434 million comment." --freedumb


Of course.

[ponch21]

Smaller class sizes do cost money. Isn't that a reason why some people home school? They know that individualized instruction works best to improve academic achievement.

Why is it when people talk about the ridiculous amounts of money being spent on education that special ed never gets mentioned. You know all the money being spent on education is not going to us regular ed teachers. A lot of money is going to physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech pathology, school psychologists, special equipment needs, one on one aids...

The feds decided that everyone needs Free and Appropriate Public Education. Thus schools are picking up the tab on federal legislation. If you freed up the money spent on special ed and gave it to regular ed, we wouldn't know what to do with all that money.

Why are teachers getting fed up even though more money is being spent on education than ever? Because not all of it is getting to us. If the feds would stop creating unfunded mandates - special ed along with No Child Left Untested - we would have plenty of money to pay our teachers well, and provide many more services.

[freedumb]

Why are teachers getting fed up even though more money is being spent on education than ever? Because not all of it is getting to us. If the feds would stop creating unfunded mandates - special ed along with No Child Left Untested - we would have plenty of money to pay our teachers well, and provide many more services.

Some kids are 'too smart' for regular ed and could benefit from advanced schooling also.
Home schooling is great but it is a luxury that people without a lot of time and money can't afford.
A federal testing program would seem to bring the average level of some schools down by ignoring the individual needs of special (smart) and special (not so smart) kids; by wasting class time to get ready for federal tests.

[SunnyBrook]

...Home schooling is great but it is a luxury that people without a lot of time and money can't afford.
Uhhh...I'm home schooling one of mine right now. Yes, it does take some time, although with organization and discipline, along with an intelligent, self-motivated student, I manage to accomplish a great deal. I am able to participate in church, in community activities, dabble in a small home-based business, and take care of my three private-schooled children. I believe my kids are worth the time I spend on them. As for HSing costing a lot of money, hogwash! The frugally-minded are able to do it for minimal cost. Most people who knew our income level would say that we are unable to afford private school and home school, but we manage just fine. We just choose to invest our money in our kids instead of other things.

...ignoring the individual needs of special (smart) and special (not so smart) kids...
This is one of the things I hated about OBE and "mastery learning" theories, but that's another whole topic of discussion.

The last thing the public education pit needs is more money dumped into its abyss. Haven't you read the other thread about US academic performance compared to other nations? We are already WAY outspending many other countries who are getting better results.

[Faithful_Servant]

Some kids are 'too smart' for regular ed and could benefit from advanced schooling also.
Home schooling is great but it is a luxury that people without a lot of time and money can't afford.
A federal testing program would seem to bring the average level of some schools down by ignoring the individual needs of special (smart) and special (not so smart) kids; by wasting class time to get ready for federal tests.
freeddumbanddumber, is there any topic that you aren't completely ignorant of?

[freedumb]

Brook,

Some people do +43 hours just to make rent. McD don't pay so well.
I really don't hope you have to really know what I mean one day.
To be poor is not a choice, it's a situation which can be treated.
You can help.

serv,

God is a conservative. Maybe you should try to conserve something.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Home schooling is great but it is a luxury that people without a lot of time and money can't afford.Get educated about homeschooling before spouting off your mouth. I have homeschooled for eleven years, two children. Homeschooling is IDEAL for people without a lot of time and money -- you can homeschool ANYTIME you want ... I know families that homeschool on the weekends, at night, split times during the days, over the summer, on three off two, etc. The GREAT thing about homeschooling is you are not tied down to specific times and places. We have homeschooled in the car, at the doctor's office, waiting for tires to be put on the car, and on and on. As for cost, just this last year for two children I spent a GRAND TOTAL of $125 for both children (a sophomore high schooler & a 7th grader)combined for curriculum. Homeschoolers are the master of the dollar bill-stretchers. We pass books down, borrow books, get books from the library, go to school & library used book sales, etc. Sorry bucko, but that line above don't fly in this sky.

Some people do +43 hours just to make rent. McD don't pay so well.
I really don't hope you have to really know what I mean one day.
To be poor is not a choice, it's a situation which can be treated.
You can help.

serv,

God is a conservative. Maybe you should try to conserve something.Income plays a very little part in one's ability to homeschool -- being poor certainly doesn't preclude it either. This past year was only the second year my family's annual gross income was over $20,000. We KNOW what poor is ... doesn't stop us from homeschooling. Again, homeschooling is IDEAL for those with tight budgets -- you don't waste money having to provide materials for school such as "school clothes" every August, school supplies EVERY YEAR because the school confiscates them to "dole out fairly" to all students (even if they didn't BRING any supplies, field trips, organized school functions, etc.

Sorry, dude, but you got it wrong again -- homeschoolers are preeminent when it comes to conserving!

[sovereignslave]

"McD don't pay so well," writes freedumb.-- Let's see: "McDonald DO NOT pay so well" ??
Am I out of place to suggest it should have read, "McD's does not pay so(or 'very') well?"--
Perhaps if we were to work on our syntactic use of the English language you could do better than a j-o-b at McDonalds. I'm a mere truck driver, but even I noticed this right off. And, if/when I might find I made such a ridiculous mistake, I would hit the "edit" button and fix it, hoping not too many folks saw my .. ignorance.
If I make such horrible use of the English language, please, please, someone take me to school and insist I correct it. We all, especially myself, benefit from reflecting a degree of decorum and education. I will do my best to make reasonable and intellectual insights, trying to not be too impetuous or demeaning. As a "political" family we should be willing to not only give correction, but also take it in the best of light.
Home schooling is an excellent tool for all concerned families to at least consider, and as demonstrated here, it is not expensive. Such an endeavor does take some time to do correctly and effectively, but there are many resources designed to minimize its cost and maximize its efficiency.
One website I highly recommend for excellent information AND tools for home schooling is < http://www.americanchristianhistory.com/rebuilders.html >. Mrs. Robbins has published many study books and other goodies that will teach American History from the perspective it was intended to be presented. I have her "You, Your Child, and the U.S. Constitution," which I use regularly for many pruposes, not to mention as reference when I am thinking about this great document, and/or preparing an article or editorial, etc. "The Siege of Shah Island" is a great booklet for teenagers, and I thoroughly enjoyed "The Governor's Story."
I do know that throwing more money at our public education system is not the answer; when was the last time you saw a teacher driving an old beater car?? The problem is multifold: (in part) 1) motivation of those who desire to be a teacher with a real leaning towards public service, 2) excessive federal (national) directives and micro-management on a macro scale, 3) the NEA clearly is a political body with a political agenda rather than an open-mided education agenda, 4) declining widespread social morality and a perceived need to be politically correct, 5) the falsehood that public schools are an extension of government with the need to be equally separate from religious-based morality, and last but not least, 6) the perceived need for both parents (when there are two) to work in hopes of keeping up with the jones'. Children need good in-home examples/role models: they need to see us reading and using each day as a learning experience. They need to hear us regularly speaking correctly and seeking Truth as the real reason for Life. Whether we admit it or not, every adult at some time or another, is being watched by tomorrow's adults, and they will be what we are to a great degree. I try to remember that in all things that I do, even when I am in the proverbial closet.

[sovereignslave]

Actually, you would be more correct to classify God as a "classic" liberal. (PS- before you go off on a tangent assuming that you know what a classic liberal is, perhaps you should visit Walter E. Williams' website, then perhaps read a little book entiled "The Law," written by the late great Frederic Bastiat; if you wish I can send you one as a gift.)

[freedumb]

sovereignslave,

"McD don't pay so well" was a joke. Imagine a very 'common' accent.

My point was home-schooling, which is a great idea, is not for everyone. Poor and uneducated parents can help break the cycle of poverty with access to good education for their children.

I do know that throwing more money at our public education system is not the answer; when was the last time you saw a teacher driving an old beater car??

I wasn't talking about giving more money to teachers so that they can buy new cars (and keep up with the Jones'). You can give money to the schools and they will know what to do with it, without too many federal controls.

[Wolfcounsel]

""McD don't pay so well" was a joke. Imagine a very 'common' accent." --freedumb


Yes, it's very common even among modern-day college graduates.

[GenuineGRITS]

Home schooling is great but it is a luxury that people without a lot of time and money can't afford.
Sigh. Why do people with no experience and very little knowledge of home schooling feel they have it all figured out?

We are a family of five. My oldest son has epilepsy, my youngest has been diagnosed with Russel Silver's Syndrome and is significantly developmentally delayed. Our youngest has four and sometimes five therapy sessions a week. Three of these sessions involve driving some distance to a children's hospital. Our medical costs alone would cause some families to buckle under the financial strain. The physical, mental and emotional stress is a whole 'nother realm. Do we have the "luxury of time and money"? Excuse me while I hurt myself laughing.

Did I mention that, while raising three children, home schooling those children, and maintaining my marriage and my home, I also run a business and teach four nights a week? The business and teaching are a result of our choice to homeschool. If we need more money to support that choice, we find a way to earn that income. Forty-three hours a week? You're kidding, right? Dh works 60 hours on a good week and he's on salary, so we don't get any extra for those twenty hours. I'm not even sure how many hours I work - I get up early and go 'til I can't go anymore, then I go some more anyway. Forty hour work weeks are the real luxury - one enjoyed most often by teenagers and college students who haven't met the real world and are praying they never have to.

Those who truly desire to educate their children at home find the time and money. We recognize the benefits of sacrifice and hard work in order to provide well for the children we chose to have. In reality, we don't consider it a sacrifice - it's our God given individual right to choose our lifestyle and the manner in which we raise our beautiful gifts from God. It's not a luxury, it's earned.

[JesusTheMechanic]

""McD don't pay so well" was a joke. Imagine a very 'common' accent." --freedumb

Yes, it's very common even among modern-day college graduates.
Freedumb was not trying to compliment poor grammar by the use of the word Common.. The Oxford American Thesaurus of Current English, printed in 1999, says, Common- 7- A common young woman Low, vulgar, coarse, uncouth, inferior, plebeian.
He was using the word *common incase you forgot* in reference to certain dialects which do use the English language to its fullest of potential, i.e. that of southern states, or slang of different ethnicities and back grounds, you also say that this is very common amongst modern-day college graduates? well then maybe the reason that kids are not learning is not due to the lack of money or other problems such as discussed above. *ahem* maybe you just have ignorant ass kids who don’t use what they learn in school, to their fullest potential or apparently to any comprehensible level imaginable.:bw:

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Freedumb was not trying to compliment poor grammar by the use of the word Common.. The Oxford American Thesaurus of Current English, printed in 1999, says, Common- 7- A common young woman Low, vulgar, coarse, uncouth, inferior, plebeian.
He was using the word *common incase you forgot* in reference to certain dialects which do use the English language to its fullest of potential, i.e. that of southern states, or slang of different ethnicities and back grounds, you also say that this is very common amongst modern-day college graduates? well then maybe the reason that kids are not learning is not due to the lack of money or other problems such as discussed above. *ahem* maybe you just have ignorant ass kids who don’t use what they learn in school, to their fullest potential or apparently to any comprehensible level imaginable.:bw:

MORE MONEY will NOT solve the problems in our school system. We've been throwing more money at the problems for YEARS, and it's only getting worse. It is absolutely time for the school system to change and it needs to be removed from the jurisdiction of the government.

[JesusTheMechanic]

MORE MONEY will NOT solve the problems in our school system. We've been throwing more money at the problems for YEARS, and it's only getting worse. It is absolutely time for the school system to change and it needs to be removed from the jurisdiction of the government.
Who do you suggest takes over? i would assume you want the church to take over... its not the govenments fault.. its the Parents and the Students. Teachers cant teach kids who dont want to learn, simple as that. You have to make kids believe that the only way they will ever be any thing in life is by doing good in school. Thats how European and asain children have so much more ambition then american children when it comes to school, they have only one chance to better theirselves, and thats through education..

[Wolfcounsel]

"...you also say that this is very common amongst modern-day college graduates? well then maybe the reason that kids are not learning is not due to the lack of money or other problems such as discussed above. *ahem* maybe you just have ignorant ass kids who don’t use what they learn in school, to their fullest potential or apparently to any comprehensible level imaginable.:bw:" --JesusTheMechanic


No, it's not the lack of money that makes dumbasses of kids. It's a combination of a weenie educational system mixed with touchy-feely parents and kids with poop-filled underwear who don't give a sh*t about learning.

[JesusTheMechanic]

Yea, i most deffinatly agree there..

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Who do you suggest takes over? i would assume you want the church to take over... its not the govenments fault.. its the Parents and the Students. Teachers cant teach kids who dont want to learn, simple as that. You have to make kids believe that the only way they will ever be any thing in life is by doing good in school. Thats how European and asain children have so much more ambition then american children when it comes to school, they have only one chance to better theirselves, and thats through education..

Absolutely I do NOT want the church to take over. How would we decide WHOSE church, WHOSE religion, WHOSE denomination, WHOSE interpretation. No, much better if private sector takes over -- a consortium of parents or educators, let's get some companies to sponsor some schools, how about cooperative education (we do that now in our homeschooling efforts), the computer is a great place to offer educational opportunities, etc. and on and on.

LOCAL authorities, and most especially parents themselves are closer to the mark for accountability. Make THEM (parents) responsible, I guarantee there'll be changes.

It's not JUST the parents and the students . . . bureacracy has a strangehold on any and every good teacher. I know LOTS of teachers (as a homeschooler whose husband WORKS at our local school board, as well as attending church with a whole lot of teachers). The money ISN'T getting to the teachers OR the students. Look, I live in the Education Lottery State . . . we are considered probably the lowest on the totem pole when it comes to education. It's NOT about the MONEY --- it's about a system that doesn't work anymore. Everybody likes to put forth the fact that times have changed, we don't live in the 19th Century anymore . . . so why has our educational system NOT changed to fit the needs and expectations of the parents/students? GOVERNMENT, that's why -- there are so many regulations, stipulations, and stuff tied to the almighty dollar (free & reduced lunch program is ALL about the numbers my friend!)

The teachers get a raw deal because their hands are tied; the students get a raw deal because they can't get the specialized attention they deserve; the parents get a raw deal because they aren't getting their (tax)dollars worth as far as their children's education goes; and the "administration" is getting fat off tax dollars and the bureacracy is getting bigger off teacher's unions litany of complaints.

De-governmentalize education --- give it BACK to the people, they're the ones using it and needing it.

[Maggie_T]

And You Wonder Why Kids Don't Learn

I never wondered. Kids don't learn because teachers - protected by their unions - are too busy pushing their political agendas, instead of teaching.