Maggie_T
03-09-2001, 03:37 PM
JustaguyTH
New Member
posts: 7
(1/30/01 3:08:22 am)
Reply BATF at it again!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Wilson's Death Ruled Homicide
By Wayne Hicks and Henrietta Bowman - Posted: 01.29.00
The death of 60-year-old Carl Ray Wilson in Arkansas, which we reported on last week, has been officially ruled a "homicide" by the Arkansas State Crime Laboratory. According to the family, the Death Certificate issued
this past Friday contains only that word in the space for "Cause of Death".
The question remains as to which of three legal classifications the death falls into: Webster's Dictionary defines homicide as "The killing of one human being by another," but continues, "Homicide is of three kinds:
justifiable, as when the killing is performed in the exercise of a right or performance of a duty; excusable, as when done, although not as duty or right, yet without culpable or criminal intent; and felonious, or involving
what the law terms malice; the latter may be either manslaughter or murder."
Which definition would best apply in this case? An examination of the facts known may shed some light on the answer. Here's what we know at this point:
1. At the request of Agent Bill Buford, head of the Arkansas Office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, a Search Warrant was issued by the Honorable J. Thomas Ray, an Arkansas Judge. This warrant, we know now,
authorized the ATF to search the home of Carl Ray Wilson for a single rifle and its ammunition, for the purpose of seizing same, on the premise that Wilson, who had been to prison twice in his earlier years, was a convicted felon and therefore forbidden by law to own firearms. We do not know what the judge was told about Mr. Wilson.but it's a safe bet that he was not told that this same rifle had been seized.without any trouble from Mr. Wilson.on at least two previous occasions, after which it was returned to Mrs. Wilson, since it was legally registered to her and she was not prohibited from owning a firearm.
2. The warrant was worded in a manner which permitted it to be considered a "no-knock" warrant, meaning that officers of the ATF (and the forty other officers who were there as backup) were authorized to enter without knocking and announcing their identities or intentions. No-knock warrants are usually issued when it is considered likely that the person to be served is either dangerous, or is likely to dispose of evidence before the search can be
conducted. It is therefore unlikely that Judge Ray was informed that Mr. Wilson, during his previous encounters with law enforcement, was known as a man who did not resist arrest or other authority. In fact, on many occasions, the local sheriff would merely call him on the telephone to let
him know that there was a warrant for his arrest and he would then come to jail on his own. As for the second reason, that evidence might be destroyed or disposed of.how do you flush a deer rifle down a toilet?
3. ATF agents, backed up by local deputies and police SWAT Team members, approached the house in pre-dawn darkness. Six of them are reported to have entered the house, where they reportedly threw a "diversionary device" into the floor. An alarm clock went off at the same moment, and Mrs. Wilson and her niece, the only two witnesses, say shooting began at that moment. Neither witness knows anything about the "diversionary device." They heard the alarm clock and then gunshots.
4. At least six shots were fired through a wall into Carl Wilson's bedroom, at which time, by a reconstruction of events, Mr. Wilson was hit more than once, probably while trying to rise from his bed to reach a .44 Magnum revolver he had in a stereo cabinet near the foot of his bed. Varying
reports have him firing from one to four times with that weapon.
5. During the shooting, one officer was struck in the back on his bullet-proof vest. Since it is unlikely he would have had his back to Mr. Wilson in the middle of a shootout, there is reason to speculate that he may
well have been hit by "friendly fire".which is nothing new to ATF operations.
6. The only other injury suffered by an officer at the scene was when one of them ducked too quickly to avoid Carl's returned fire and got splinters in his face. An officer who was present at the time has speculated off the
record that the splinters were thrown up by a round from Carl's pistol striking the floor, probably from a reflexive tightening of his trigger finger after being shot seven times in total.
7. When the firing stopped, Mrs. Wilson and her niece ran into the room to find out what was going on. They were thrown to the floor, handcuffed and threatened with weapons shoved against their faces. Officers demanded to
know why Mrs. Wilson was not in the bed with her husband, then began shouting at Carl to "GIT UP, GIT UP!" Carl weakly replied, "I can't" and then bled to death on his own bed, in his underwear.
8. Mrs. Wilson and her niece, still handcuffed, were denied use of a telephone to call for an ambulance for Carl and were roughly dragged outside, barefoot and in their nightclothes. An ambulance did arrive moments later.the two "injured" officers were treated at the scene, and taken
to the local hospital for further treatment. The attendants were not taken into the house, and were reportedly not told that a man had been shot inside.
9. After it was reasonably certain to officers Carl was dead, a call was placed for removal of his body. Once that was accomplished, Mrs. Wilson and her niece were released and allowed to return to the house. No attempt was
made to perform any crime scene investigation and even the spent shells from the fired weapons were left lying on the floor. The only photos of the bloody scene were those taken by Mrs. Wilson, which are now in the possession of her attorneys.
10. Bill Buford, head of the Arkansas office of the ATF and one of the principal planners of the Waco debacle against David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, led the raid and called a press conference afterwards, in which
he stated that officers encountered fire from Mr. Wilson "as they approached the house". This we now know to be false.
11. Mr. Buford stated that he was certain that Carl knew they were officers of the law. If firing began before any announcement of the officers'identity or purpose, which we know to be the case, it is immaterial who Carl
thought the officers were. He had been illegally fired upon and had the right to defend himself, no matter who the shooters were. A badge is not a license to kill.it is a symbol of authority that may be required to use deadly force in the proper performance of duty.
12. Mr. Buford stated that the search warrant was "sealed", but that he could say it involved drugs and explosives. This is now known to be untrue and Mr. Buford, who applied to Judge Ray for the warrant, knew so when he
uttered this statement.
13. Official statements by police have been cited as saying that only about 20 shots were fired in total. If this is true, then we are at a loss to explain nine zip-lock bags of spent shells picked up in the house afterwards. These are also in the possession of the widow's attorneys.
14. Many years before, a much younger Bill Buford told a much younger Carl
Wilson."I'm gonna get you!"
With the number of blatant untruths told in this case, both those speculated to have been used (at least by their very omission) to obtain the "no-knock" warrant, and the ones told by Mr. Buford, it would seem that there was a
motive beyond the seizure of a single deer rifle and four rounds of ammunition for this raid. Could it be that Mr. Wilson was such a known, dangerous criminal that it was necessary for him to die for the safety of his community?
Well, he and his wife had just been approved for a mortgage to buy a new home. The banker who approved that loan came to see Mrs. Wilson the day of the shooting. He let her know rrangements would be made to ensure she would still get the house, although it would mean lowering the interest rate
and lengthening the term of the mortgage in order to make that possible. He also gave Mrs. Wilson several hundred dollars to help pay for "a nice funeral for Carl." Many local businesspeople followed suit, bringing from one
hundred to six hundred dollars to Mrs. Wilson, to help pay for that "nice funeral." At the funeral home, several hundred more appeared anonymously upon the casket
in which his body lay. His church misses him.and so do the many, many friends who have contacted this writer to express their shock and outrage over what they term "Carl's Execution"!
Sounds like a real bad dude, doesn't he?
The cause of death in the matter of Carl Ray Wilson is now listed as homicide. From the facts now known, it seems rather apparent that this was indeed a homicide, in the sense we are all most familiar with, from movies,
TV, and news: murder most foul.
Further developments involving an investigation into the matter, which cannot be fully reported at this time, are expected shortly! Please watch for more
on this story.
Justaguy
New Member
posts: 1
(1/30/01 3:22:53 am)
Reply I GOT MY NAME BACK!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ISP over here is pretty archaic and everything has to go through Riyadh firewall. You won't see JustaguyTH anymore... I'm rid of Town Hall now!!
Westbrook
Gold Star Member
posts: 98
(1/30/01 7:45:19 am)
Reply Re: BATF at it again!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did this happen during Clinton's watch?
Is RENO still Attorney General? Who is Sec. of Treasury? Are the Clintonoids still in charge in these agencies?
"Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."
~~ Romans 12:21
Jeff Davis
New Member
posts: 14
(1/30/01 8:04:04 am)
Reply Re: BATF at it again!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It happened a couple of weeks ago, so it was a Clinton operation.
shrdlu
New Member
posts: 12
(1/30/01 8:18:08 am)
Reply Re: BATF at it again!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Dingle had it exactly right. THE BATF is in the hands of "Jack Booted Thugs!"
The Sonarman
Gold Star Member
posts: 117
(2/1/01 10:01:51 am)
Reply
Re: BATF at it again!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BATF has long been a rogue agency. No doubt, there are some decent, disciplined agents working there. Fine. They can apply for the FBI.
This man apparently had absolutely no history of violent encounters with police. The classic Ninja-suited Jackbooted Thug ATF SWAT raid was unnecessary, just as it was unnecessary in Waco. Given the need for a "high risk" federal arrest (the only justification), we already have well trained, well disciplined US Marshalls for just that instance.
Once again (just as first Ruby Ridge, later in Waco), this was a simple warrant, that could easily have been taken care of by the local police. But noooooo. The ATF has to stage yet another violent invasion of a citizen's home with massive firepower, ending up in yet another dead civilian in his own home.
If this person was "illegally" armed.... fine. The last I heard.... that wasn't a death penalty offense.
I have long desired to see the ATF be the first federal agency completely dissolved.
The trouble with modern US Foreign Relations is.... we utilize way too much BS and not enough napalm.
New Member
posts: 7
(1/30/01 3:08:22 am)
Reply BATF at it again!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Wilson's Death Ruled Homicide
By Wayne Hicks and Henrietta Bowman - Posted: 01.29.00
The death of 60-year-old Carl Ray Wilson in Arkansas, which we reported on last week, has been officially ruled a "homicide" by the Arkansas State Crime Laboratory. According to the family, the Death Certificate issued
this past Friday contains only that word in the space for "Cause of Death".
The question remains as to which of three legal classifications the death falls into: Webster's Dictionary defines homicide as "The killing of one human being by another," but continues, "Homicide is of three kinds:
justifiable, as when the killing is performed in the exercise of a right or performance of a duty; excusable, as when done, although not as duty or right, yet without culpable or criminal intent; and felonious, or involving
what the law terms malice; the latter may be either manslaughter or murder."
Which definition would best apply in this case? An examination of the facts known may shed some light on the answer. Here's what we know at this point:
1. At the request of Agent Bill Buford, head of the Arkansas Office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, a Search Warrant was issued by the Honorable J. Thomas Ray, an Arkansas Judge. This warrant, we know now,
authorized the ATF to search the home of Carl Ray Wilson for a single rifle and its ammunition, for the purpose of seizing same, on the premise that Wilson, who had been to prison twice in his earlier years, was a convicted felon and therefore forbidden by law to own firearms. We do not know what the judge was told about Mr. Wilson.but it's a safe bet that he was not told that this same rifle had been seized.without any trouble from Mr. Wilson.on at least two previous occasions, after which it was returned to Mrs. Wilson, since it was legally registered to her and she was not prohibited from owning a firearm.
2. The warrant was worded in a manner which permitted it to be considered a "no-knock" warrant, meaning that officers of the ATF (and the forty other officers who were there as backup) were authorized to enter without knocking and announcing their identities or intentions. No-knock warrants are usually issued when it is considered likely that the person to be served is either dangerous, or is likely to dispose of evidence before the search can be
conducted. It is therefore unlikely that Judge Ray was informed that Mr. Wilson, during his previous encounters with law enforcement, was known as a man who did not resist arrest or other authority. In fact, on many occasions, the local sheriff would merely call him on the telephone to let
him know that there was a warrant for his arrest and he would then come to jail on his own. As for the second reason, that evidence might be destroyed or disposed of.how do you flush a deer rifle down a toilet?
3. ATF agents, backed up by local deputies and police SWAT Team members, approached the house in pre-dawn darkness. Six of them are reported to have entered the house, where they reportedly threw a "diversionary device" into the floor. An alarm clock went off at the same moment, and Mrs. Wilson and her niece, the only two witnesses, say shooting began at that moment. Neither witness knows anything about the "diversionary device." They heard the alarm clock and then gunshots.
4. At least six shots were fired through a wall into Carl Wilson's bedroom, at which time, by a reconstruction of events, Mr. Wilson was hit more than once, probably while trying to rise from his bed to reach a .44 Magnum revolver he had in a stereo cabinet near the foot of his bed. Varying
reports have him firing from one to four times with that weapon.
5. During the shooting, one officer was struck in the back on his bullet-proof vest. Since it is unlikely he would have had his back to Mr. Wilson in the middle of a shootout, there is reason to speculate that he may
well have been hit by "friendly fire".which is nothing new to ATF operations.
6. The only other injury suffered by an officer at the scene was when one of them ducked too quickly to avoid Carl's returned fire and got splinters in his face. An officer who was present at the time has speculated off the
record that the splinters were thrown up by a round from Carl's pistol striking the floor, probably from a reflexive tightening of his trigger finger after being shot seven times in total.
7. When the firing stopped, Mrs. Wilson and her niece ran into the room to find out what was going on. They were thrown to the floor, handcuffed and threatened with weapons shoved against their faces. Officers demanded to
know why Mrs. Wilson was not in the bed with her husband, then began shouting at Carl to "GIT UP, GIT UP!" Carl weakly replied, "I can't" and then bled to death on his own bed, in his underwear.
8. Mrs. Wilson and her niece, still handcuffed, were denied use of a telephone to call for an ambulance for Carl and were roughly dragged outside, barefoot and in their nightclothes. An ambulance did arrive moments later.the two "injured" officers were treated at the scene, and taken
to the local hospital for further treatment. The attendants were not taken into the house, and were reportedly not told that a man had been shot inside.
9. After it was reasonably certain to officers Carl was dead, a call was placed for removal of his body. Once that was accomplished, Mrs. Wilson and her niece were released and allowed to return to the house. No attempt was
made to perform any crime scene investigation and even the spent shells from the fired weapons were left lying on the floor. The only photos of the bloody scene were those taken by Mrs. Wilson, which are now in the possession of her attorneys.
10. Bill Buford, head of the Arkansas office of the ATF and one of the principal planners of the Waco debacle against David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, led the raid and called a press conference afterwards, in which
he stated that officers encountered fire from Mr. Wilson "as they approached the house". This we now know to be false.
11. Mr. Buford stated that he was certain that Carl knew they were officers of the law. If firing began before any announcement of the officers'identity or purpose, which we know to be the case, it is immaterial who Carl
thought the officers were. He had been illegally fired upon and had the right to defend himself, no matter who the shooters were. A badge is not a license to kill.it is a symbol of authority that may be required to use deadly force in the proper performance of duty.
12. Mr. Buford stated that the search warrant was "sealed", but that he could say it involved drugs and explosives. This is now known to be untrue and Mr. Buford, who applied to Judge Ray for the warrant, knew so when he
uttered this statement.
13. Official statements by police have been cited as saying that only about 20 shots were fired in total. If this is true, then we are at a loss to explain nine zip-lock bags of spent shells picked up in the house afterwards. These are also in the possession of the widow's attorneys.
14. Many years before, a much younger Bill Buford told a much younger Carl
Wilson."I'm gonna get you!"
With the number of blatant untruths told in this case, both those speculated to have been used (at least by their very omission) to obtain the "no-knock" warrant, and the ones told by Mr. Buford, it would seem that there was a
motive beyond the seizure of a single deer rifle and four rounds of ammunition for this raid. Could it be that Mr. Wilson was such a known, dangerous criminal that it was necessary for him to die for the safety of his community?
Well, he and his wife had just been approved for a mortgage to buy a new home. The banker who approved that loan came to see Mrs. Wilson the day of the shooting. He let her know rrangements would be made to ensure she would still get the house, although it would mean lowering the interest rate
and lengthening the term of the mortgage in order to make that possible. He also gave Mrs. Wilson several hundred dollars to help pay for "a nice funeral for Carl." Many local businesspeople followed suit, bringing from one
hundred to six hundred dollars to Mrs. Wilson, to help pay for that "nice funeral." At the funeral home, several hundred more appeared anonymously upon the casket
in which his body lay. His church misses him.and so do the many, many friends who have contacted this writer to express their shock and outrage over what they term "Carl's Execution"!
Sounds like a real bad dude, doesn't he?
The cause of death in the matter of Carl Ray Wilson is now listed as homicide. From the facts now known, it seems rather apparent that this was indeed a homicide, in the sense we are all most familiar with, from movies,
TV, and news: murder most foul.
Further developments involving an investigation into the matter, which cannot be fully reported at this time, are expected shortly! Please watch for more
on this story.
Justaguy
New Member
posts: 1
(1/30/01 3:22:53 am)
Reply I GOT MY NAME BACK!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ISP over here is pretty archaic and everything has to go through Riyadh firewall. You won't see JustaguyTH anymore... I'm rid of Town Hall now!!
Westbrook
Gold Star Member
posts: 98
(1/30/01 7:45:19 am)
Reply Re: BATF at it again!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did this happen during Clinton's watch?
Is RENO still Attorney General? Who is Sec. of Treasury? Are the Clintonoids still in charge in these agencies?
"Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."
~~ Romans 12:21
Jeff Davis
New Member
posts: 14
(1/30/01 8:04:04 am)
Reply Re: BATF at it again!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It happened a couple of weeks ago, so it was a Clinton operation.
shrdlu
New Member
posts: 12
(1/30/01 8:18:08 am)
Reply Re: BATF at it again!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Dingle had it exactly right. THE BATF is in the hands of "Jack Booted Thugs!"
The Sonarman
Gold Star Member
posts: 117
(2/1/01 10:01:51 am)
Reply
Re: BATF at it again!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BATF has long been a rogue agency. No doubt, there are some decent, disciplined agents working there. Fine. They can apply for the FBI.
This man apparently had absolutely no history of violent encounters with police. The classic Ninja-suited Jackbooted Thug ATF SWAT raid was unnecessary, just as it was unnecessary in Waco. Given the need for a "high risk" federal arrest (the only justification), we already have well trained, well disciplined US Marshalls for just that instance.
Once again (just as first Ruby Ridge, later in Waco), this was a simple warrant, that could easily have been taken care of by the local police. But noooooo. The ATF has to stage yet another violent invasion of a citizen's home with massive firepower, ending up in yet another dead civilian in his own home.
If this person was "illegally" armed.... fine. The last I heard.... that wasn't a death penalty offense.
I have long desired to see the ATF be the first federal agency completely dissolved.
The trouble with modern US Foreign Relations is.... we utilize way too much BS and not enough napalm.