Kraft Foods Orders Up Healthier Snacks [Archive]

View Full Version : Kraft Foods Orders Up Healthier Snacks

WavingGirl

08-22-2004, 06:23 PM

This should have happened long ago--and could have.

Better late than never.

sls /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea1.gif

-----------------------------------------------------

Kraft Foods Orders Up Healthier Snacks (http://fredericksburg.com/News/apmethods/apstory?urlfeed=D84KDBPO1.xml)

By DAVE CARPENTER, AP Business Writer

NORTHFIELD, Ill. - These are the times that try cookie makers' sales. A diet heavy on Oreos, macaroni and cheese, Oscar Mayer hot dogs and Philadelphia Cream Cheese, washed down by Maxwell House coffee and Kool-Aid, has fattened the bottom line for years at Kraft Foods Inc. But now the nation's largest food manufacturer is moving to cut back on some of its indulgences.

An eating revolution that has Americans seeking out healthier food, or at least trying to consume less, has forced Kraft to rethink the way it markets its products and begin reshuffling its lineup.

Growing obesity, the popularity of low-carbohydrate diets and worries about potentially artery-clogging trans fats all have combined to hurt sales at the company, not unlike the plight of other packaged-food makers. Kraft's Oreos, a long-time icon of snackdom, have fairly or unfairly become the bad poster child for trans fats and Atkins and South Beach diet devotees.

Add in soaring commodity costs for milk, cheese, cocoa and coffee and a few other headaches and the result is four straight quarters of profit declines and sluggish revenue and sales volume.

So when the company hosted analysts and reporters for a day-long presentation at its headquarters north of Chicago recently, they got a serving of rare corporate candor from Kraft along with a peek at new items. Chief executive Roger Deromedi admitted the company has been "hammered" lately in four businesses _ cereal, cookies, frozen pizza and candy _ due to competitors' products and the impact of low-carb diets that forgo sweets and starchy foods.

"We have issues in those categories," he acknowledged in lowering Kraft's estimate for 2004 profits.

But Deromedi insisted repeatedly that Kraft's restructuring plan "remains on track" and will start showing better results by year's end.

Complete article (http://fredericksburg.com/News/apmethods/apstory?urlfeed=D84KDBPO1.xml)

HomeschoolrsRUs

08-22-2004, 11:37 PM

I don't care, if they mess with OREO's I'm gonna be mad! Some of us LIKE our weight, even if it is a bit on the heavy side. I like OREO's the way they are ... no low fat stuff, in the middle or the cookie part. Just leave the OREO's alone! LOL

Rink

08-23-2004, 12:14 AM

Hey I Dig my Oreo-Double Stuff, they had better not touch it at their peril, as I may get homicidal over that if they do grrrrrrrrrrrr

I love my Oreos, I have a right to eat high-fat foods if I wanna!!

Hamburgers included!

HomeschoolrsRUs

08-23-2004, 07:21 AM

I'm with you Rink. Am beginning to think the last bastion of freedom is eating. I understand obesity, I understand over-eating and high-fat, but it's MY body. Until every other unsafe, unhealthy thing in this country is "regulated," stay outta my kitchen cupboards and stop trying to stop those makers of yummy treats from producing what consumers want. It's not "their" fault ... it's mine, and anyone else who CHOOSES to over eat, eat unhealthy, or eat unwisely.

And as a side note, IF there is a REAL desire for Americans to eat healthier in this country ... how about LOWERING the cost of healthy, safe foods. It is, and has always been, my contention that to eat healthy costs WAY more than it does to eat unhealthy. We live on one income (basically) here, and I have TRIED to do the "healthy" foods thing ... we simply cannot afford it. If they want to offer a real alternative to the people who are probably considered most at risk, low income families, then LOWER the cost of the healthy stuff and RAISE the cost of the unhealthy stuff. That would help solve my problem, at least somewhat.

Rink

08-23-2004, 07:50 AM

Amen Sista HomeschoolsRU

One more thing, people need to learn how to cook from scratch again, like our grandmothers did, if America did that you might see more healthy living, and living within our means once more.

as basic foodstuffs is cheaper in some respects but the problem is not everybody knows how to cook it anymore, as this is a basically consumerist society, the quick-fix food eat-as-you-go type society.

Unfortunately this engenders bad eating habits and sometines little or no good eating habits at all.

Believe me I'm one of them, I never really ate right or ate healthy, but I've lucked out so far, I DO need to learn how to cook and cook foods from scratch, as when I do my fav foccacia breads, it seems to taste better when done from scratch, all I use is the bread-machine to do all the hard work for me, most the ingredients are from scratch though.

So if THAT tastes better than the processed foods, what would my fav dish Chicken chow mein taste like from scratch or other good foods cooked from scratch??

My mom once lived on a farm in North Dakota and she used to eat the veggies from the root cellar and got milk fresh from cows, cream and butter straight from cows is so much more healthier than the homogenized ruined milk one buys at a store, many people have absolutely no idea what Real milk is truly like unblanched like they do from the homogenization process which literally burns out all the good stuff from milk.

BUT milk must come from healthy raised cows , not the factory-raised ones.

Ya git my meaning?

But I DO like to have a choice in what goodies and treats I wanna eat, i dont have a sweet tooth that much with the exception of chocolate, otherwise I can live without candies.

My mom has the sweet tooth, and she's lucky she doesnt hafta fight over the See's candies with me LMAO!

HomeschoolrsRUs

08-23-2004, 10:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Rink said:
One more thing, people need to learn how to cook from scratch again, like our grandmothers did, if America did that you might see more healthy living, and living within our means once more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely! You wanna know why people don't know how to cook from scratch? We have abandoned Biblical principle ...

Titus 2:1-5
"But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith in charity, in patience. The aged women likewise, that they be in behavior as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed."

We have destroyed the importance of the family and their individual functions / responsibilities / duties, therefore it is no longer important to pass anything down to the next generation.

[ QUOTE ]
Rink said:
as basic foodstuffs is cheaper in some respects but the problem is not everybody knows how to cook it anymore, as this is a basically consumerist society, the quick-fix food eat-as-you-go type society.

Unfortunately this engenders bad eating habits and sometines little or no good eating habits at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, I agree, we are a "fast-food society" for sure. Our lives are so busy and hectic, we have every modern convenience known to man, and yet we STILL don't have enough time for anything. That's a matter of priorities, for sure.

[ QUOTE ]
Rink said:
Ya git my meaning?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I do. Funny, I bet if you asked any kids today where certain foods come from, they would say "the store," LOL.

[ QUOTE ]
Rink said:
But I DO like to have a choice in what goodies and treats I wanna eat, i dont have a sweet tooth that much with the exception of chocolate, otherwise I can live without candies.

My mom has the sweet tooth, and she's lucky she doesnt hafta fight over the See's candies with me LMAO!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh Hunny, don't you KNOW it. I am a pure chocoholic! And to make matters even worse, I'm allergic to it! I get severe migraine headaches ... the longest episode lasted three days, I didn't eat or get out of bed (save for bathroom trips). I have to be REAL careful how much and how often I eat it now. It stinks -- I'm always having chocolate cravings. After 41 years, though, I have gotten into a pretty good routine ... but if every given the chance, I would binge like there was no tomorrow, LOL.

WavingGirl

08-23-2004, 12:00 PM

Homeschool said:

"Absolutely! You wanna know why people don't know how to cook from scratch? We have abandoned Biblical principle ... "

----------------------------------
I say:

Some of us just don't have time.

As a Single woman---I feel no guilt about utilizing modern conveniences.

Further, as a recently diagnosed diabetic--I am learning better ways to eat and live----many are in similar situations.

You can have my share of the Oreos--I ate enough of them and other sugary treats when I was a child--and my stay at home Mom baked continuously--perhaps--that didn't turn out to be such a Good Thing in my case.

To each his own--lifestyle.

No longer do I hang my head in shame because I am single (a Christian--who doesn't actually 'Fit In'---I suppose---like many others...If that is your interpretation of the Bible... Literal. I don't see Christianity that way --but--shrug---I only control myself---I believe that is Christ-Like to mind my own business...)

SusaninAtlanta--
As much of a proud American as others who are Extremely Conservative

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif

Just a bit more subdued and perhaps ---Tolerant; I never did understand why that was so wrong... Christianity would have us to be Tolerant of Differences...but then---I base my Faith on the Beatitudes--humility and all that...

HomeschoolrsRUs

08-23-2004, 12:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]

HomeschoolrsRUs said,

"Absolutely! You wanna know why people don't know how to cook from scratch? We have abandoned Biblical principle ... "

WavingGirl said,
I say:
Some of us just don't have time.

As a Single woman---I feel no guilt about utilizing modern conveniences.

Further, as a recently diagnosed diabetic--I am learning better ways to eat and live----many are in similar situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

I sincerely apologize for any offense you may have perceived from my post, it was NOT intentionally directed at you personally. I was responding to Rink's post. It is my humble opinion that the fracturization of the traditional family coupled with an obvious turning away from the Word of God in all areas has fueled the abandonment of traditions and teachings passed on from generation to generation. It was a general statement about the general state of affairs in this country, not a personal condemnation, and I am truly sorry if it appeared that way.

[ QUOTE ]
WavingGirl said,
You can have my share of the Oreos--

[/ QUOTE ]

Ooh thank you! Yum! I just wub OREO's, but I can't eat too many at one setting, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif

[ QUOTE ]
WavingGirl said,
I ate enough of them and other sugary treats when I was a child--and my stay at home Mom baked continuously--perhaps--that didn't turn out to be such a Good Thing in my case.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally understand .. my father was a diabetic and died in 1999 from complications resulting from his diabetes. My grandfather (his father) died of the same, and my Gramma used to practically force-feed, (nah, not really, she just made it REALLY accessible) both of them candy, sweets, and stuff they shouldn't have. I was always respectful of him and tried not to eat anything in front of him that would be tempting.

[ QUOTE ]
WavingGirl said,
No longer do I hang my head in shame because I am single (a Christian--who doesn't actually 'Fit In'---I suppose---like many others...If that is your interpretation of the Bible... Literal. I don't see Christianity that way --but--shrug---I only control myself---I believe that is Christ-Like to mind my own business...)

SusaninAtlanta--
As much of a proud American as others who are Extremely Conservative

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif

Just a bit more subdued and perhaps ---Tolerant; I never did understand why that was so wrong... Christianity would have us to be Tolerant of Differences...but then---I base my Faith on the Beatitudes--humility and all that...

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, I most sincerely and humbly apologize if you took offense at my post, but I stand by my opinions.

WavingGirl

08-23-2004, 01:06 PM

Not to worry--I can see right now that I don't belong here either.

Sad--when Christian/Conservatives must be so selective and To Stand By Their Opinions.

Requiring others of us to be 'Flexible'....

Christianity is a religion with latitude IMO---evil public school teacher/Liberal/Feminist/Socialist that I have been called.

And I don't condemn gays--

Buh Bye...

sls

Many different kinds of Southerners---I am proud that I am not Typical---

often rejected by My Own Kind... as was Christ...

HomeschoolrsRUs

08-23-2004, 01:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
WavingGirl said:
Not to worry--I can see right now that I don't belong here either.

Sad--when Christian/Conservatives must be so selective and To Stand By Their Opinions.

Requiring others of us to be 'Flexible'....

Christianity is a religion with latitude IMO---evil public school teacher/Liberal/Feminist/Socialist that I have been called.

And I don't condemn gays--

Buh Bye...

sls

Many different kinds of Southerners---I am proud that I am not Typical---

often rejected by My Own Kind... as was Christ...

[/ QUOTE ]

HUH? What did I do? I don't think I was ANYTHING but polite here. I apologized for any offense, and even clarified what I was talking about! I was only posting with Rink -- I didn't chastise you for anything! I didn't condemn your lifestyle, and my posts were anything from acerbic (UNLIKE YOURS!)

It is YOU who are superimposing your own feelings about "conservatives" on me -- I did nothing wrong. I was only defending my position and opinions. I didn't call you names or anything.

I'm sorry you feel it necessary to be so foul-tempered.

Good-bye

WavingGirl

08-23-2004, 02:00 PM

One thing I have learned from dealing with 'Conservatives' --the more Profoundly Conservative, at least is that 'A Good Offense is the Best Defense' seems to be a commonly accepted SOP.

I guess I should be more Tolerant--of those who are 'More Christian', More Concerned With Morality and in fact far superior to the Rest of US...but frankly I've heard Enough and more than enough of this kind of rhetoric.

Thus as you define me---I have become protective of myself or Acerbic---Take No Prisoners---right--come out Swinging and hit hard---that is what I have learned from debates with Conservatives...

Not a pleasant way to be, IMO--but that's the effect that it has.

What choice do more Moderate citizens have--either we put up and shut up and let the 'Reagan Was Right' team run the country or we have to watch everything dream we might have had be flushed away by the Demorcrats.

It sucks--yes indeedy. I could go for a third party...

sls /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smack.gif

Who still believes that abortion is an individual decision---tired of hearing about that, too.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whatever.gif

Apollo5600

08-30-2004, 03:22 AM

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon133.gif

I have no idea what you are talking about, but it sure is cracking me up!

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I should be more Tolerant--of those who are 'More Christian', More Concerned With Morality and in fact far superior to the Rest of US...but frankly I've heard Enough and more than enough of this kind of rhetoric.

[/ QUOTE ]

More concerned with morality : bad? Huh? Perhaps I missunderstand..

[ QUOTE ]
And I don't condemn gays--

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't either, it's their rejection of Christ that does that. Same for everyone else, we are all sinners you know.

Unless you mean, you don't think homosexuality is a sin, and that anybody who disagrees with you hates them?

[ QUOTE ]
Christianity is a religion with latitude IMO---evil public school teacher/Liberal/Feminist/Socialist that I have been called.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't seen you get called that yet, why did they call you that?

[ QUOTE ]
Buh Bye...

[/ QUOTE ]

geeze, to think all of this started over a thread like this! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Crying.gif

HomeschoolrsRUs

08-30-2004, 11:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Apollo5600 said:
geeze, to think all of this started over a thread like this! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Crying.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you believe it? And who says Conservatives aren't sensitive? LOL

Think this one was a little too sensitive, reading between lines that don't exists and seeing conspiracies where there aren't any.

Timberwolf

09-02-2004, 09:00 AM

What the hell was THAT all about?

Geez, talk of having a thin skin, eh? HSRU, I have no idea what got her panties knotted.

...mildly amusing, though...

Chris

09-05-2004, 11:12 AM

If she's basing her faith on the beatitudes, me thinks she better go read them again.

Timberwolf

09-07-2004, 09:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
WavingGirl said:
One thing I have learned from dealing with 'Conservatives' --the more Profoundly Conservative, at least is that 'A Good Offense is the Best Defense' seems to be a commonly accepted SOP.

[/ QUOTE ]
Or, rather, change for no other reason THAN change is oft times a BAD thing.

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I should be more Tolerant--of those who are 'More Christian', More Concerned With Morality and in fact far superior to the Rest of US...but frankly I've heard Enough and more than enough of this kind of rhetoric.

[/ QUOTE ]
"Tolerance is the virtue of a man with no convictions."
~~~G.K. Chesterton

[ QUOTE ]
Thus as you define me---I have become protective of myself or Acerbic---Take No Prisoners---right--come out Swinging and hit hard---that is what I have learned from debates with Conservatives...

[/ QUOTE ]
No reason to BE protective as, no one attacked you. If you cannot handle any viewpoints contrary to your own, you shouldn't be on the internet sharing your views with others.

[ QUOTE ]
Not a pleasant way to be, IMO--but that's the effect that it has.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure...right....whatever...

[ QUOTE ]
What choice do more Moderate citizens have--either we put up and shut up and let the 'Reagan Was Right' team run the country or we have to watch everything dream we might have had be flushed away by the Demorcrats.

It sucks--yes indeedy. I could go for a third party...

[/ QUOTE ]
Go for it...if you really want the Dumbocraps in control. Until the Ds are relegated to the trash heap of obscurity, no sane conservative should be voting 3rd party. After the Ds are no longer a threat to our security, go for it.

[ QUOTE ]
Who still believes that abortion is an individual decision---tired of hearing about that, too.

[/ QUOTE ]
How did you get from "healthy snacks" to abortion? Regardless, abortion on demand is murder. In very few instances, it is medically necessary.

WavingGirl

09-11-2004, 03:50 PM

Somehow I think this post belonged in another forum---there was a 'Discussion' of sorts and my stress level was elevated.

Kindly disregard....

WG

WavingGirl

09-11-2004, 04:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What choice do more Moderate citizens have--either we put up and shut up and let the 'Reagan Was Right' team run the country or we have to watch everything dream we might have had be flushed away by the Demorcrats.

It sucks--yes indeedy. I could go for a third party...

[/ QUOTE ]
Go for it...if you really want the Dumbocraps in control. Until the Ds are relegated to the trash heap of obscurity, no sane conservative should be voting 3rd party. After the Ds are no longer a threat to our security, go for it.

[ QUOTE ]
Who still believes that abortion is an individual decision---tired of hearing about that, too.

[/ QUOTE ]
How did you get from "healthy snacks" to abortion? Regardless, abortion on demand is murder. In very few instances, it is medically necessary.[/QUOTE]----------------------
LOL---I was surprised to find this myself---obviously meant for another forum.

I don't plan to waste my vote ---just not very happy with the choices available.

As for abortion--I also believe that the entire country, society in general needs to live differently----then we might not have to waste time talking about abortion.

(HomeSchool's Sig---identifies that she is ProLife--and that is fine and good--I just can't 'Go that Far to Right'---or hear what I have heard again. I am a Christian and I believe life is sacred---I have no idea what decision I might make if faced with such a challenge--but I know for certain that it would be my private business. That is the way I practice my religion ...you can use your imagination about what sort of discussions may have taken place.)

There have been many discussions on this topic---as perhaps you already know.

WG

WavingGirl

09-11-2004, 05:12 PM

WavingGirl

09-11-2004, 05:14 PM

If she's basing her faith on the beatitudes, me thinks she better go read them again.-------------------------

LOL---Christianity is filled with paradoxes.

Now there's a topic that will generate some interesting comments.

And I have heard too many.

WG

EagleTed

09-12-2004, 03:00 PM

KFT has been slow to the draw. It missed the Atkins fad, even when cheese is one of the Atkins friendly foods. Management has been slow to react, and made some dumb moves when it did act. As a KFT stockholder, I'm very displeased with their performance.

If however, they turn their business around by getting a better handle on where the consumer is going, KFT could be a good investment.

I don't wish to get involved in the debate you guys have going, just noticed KFT being talked about and thought I'd add a few thoughts about the company.

Warlady

09-14-2004, 07:34 AM

WavingGirl

09-14-2004, 02:55 PM

Wavinggirl, you are just plain weird. Way deep. Wrapped a bit too um tight. I have read some of your article selections and I just don't get you at all. You might want to lighten up and enjoy life a little more.------------
WL--

If you are referring to several of my posts----from a few weeks ago.

I can tell you that the solution is to stay away from forums that are Overly Conservative.

I don't really appreciate your evaluation(s) of me as Wierd.

I am a Moderate----and very tired of hearing both sides Rant about Who Is Right---

Some Conservatives can be um 'Rude'---not saying that you are --but think about it....

I also see a great deal of Hypocrisy in Conservatism----Morality and Capitalism a bit difficulit to swallow together, IMO.

If we cannot discuss ideas openly here--without judgment---I wont trouble you again.

To be specific----I am rather disgusted with many Conservatives---find them almost pompous and closeminded.

sls

Politicalmom

09-14-2004, 03:28 PM

WavingGirl, besides being weird, you are incoherent.

I suppose you believe you are rational and polite?

WavingGirl

09-14-2004, 03:37 PM

WavingGirl, besides being weird, you are incoherent.

I suppose you believe you are rational and polite?
-------------
I beg your pardon?

Ah well---this seems to be The Way of some Political Forums----

Let's see how many more will join in.

sls

WavingGirl

09-14-2004, 03:40 PM

In an effort to be more coherent---as politicalmom desires, I offer this.

------------------
I am tired of the judmental nature of many Conservatives--not all--but too many.

--------------

I take great exception to many points in this article.

'Movies, media and music do not lead the nation's moral values, they
reflect them. What is acceptable today would have called for jail
sentences forty to fifty years ago. And while we cannot go back,
there is a forward that can change paths, there's a fork in the road
every few feet, a decision to be made for good or for evil.'

This is not the sort of leadership or government or society that I
want. We cannot go back and there are other factors that contribute to the challenges of sustaining the quality of life in the US.

I should take cover now--of that I am certain.

sls

--------------
AMERICA: WHY THE NATION IS WEAK
NO VALUES, NO CHARACTER, NO FAITH IN GOD

By: Dorothy Anne Seese

The more one contemplates this nation and the things that made it
great, the more it becomes evident that our globalism and denial of
our Christian foundations (albeit we were created a secular state)
have cut away the underpinnings of our greatness. We have
transgressed both the law of God and the sage advice of our founders
who warned us against the very things this generation has done, and
the result is evident.

This is no longer a nation to be feared because its own media will
undermine any attempt to carry out a war, and war is a matter of who
emerges victorious over the other. If victory is not the object,
then whatever conflict there is, is not war. That is what we have
had since 1945, a series of killing skirmishes for which we have had
to offer apology to both the opponents and our own people for the
senseless killings. As to a war on terror, that is not going to be
fought on any battlefield under any rules of engagement. War now
means killing at random and taking out the perceived enemy any which
way it is possible, and for the opponents of a nation that still
attempts to operate under rules of engagement, it means horror and
barbarism from the opponents.

Useless killing is not war. War has an objective and a victory that
is conceded by the enemy. Scattered terrorists operating like street
gangs with warlord leaders are not subject to rules of engagement,
they can scarcely be differentiated from the general population. It
will be interesting to see how Russia deals with the Chechnyan
Muslim rebels who inflicted such horror on the children across its
border. To give any quarter to the insane murderers of children as
making some sort of statement to the world has but one statement: no
mercy to the perpetrators of hideous crimes. Kill them all and let
their god sort it out.

Meanwhile back in the United States, elected representatives are
considering whether to consider certain parts of the Bible as "hate
speech." Such cyborgs have no place in Congress, they best be placed
in a special section of Area 51 with whatever aliens might be
stashed there. To insult God in the laws of the land by dictating
what preachers may and may not teach in the Christian faith that has
been the underpinning of this nation's morals even prior to its
Declaration of Independence from the Crown is to slap at God in the
worst way possible. These are the arrogant nitwits who are spending
the tax dollars of American Christian taxpayers to choke off
religious freedom, and when challenged, bring up "separation of
church and state." Yes, and that separation is to keep government
out of religion, never to keep religion out of government. Ignorance
of our founding documents has been found among scores of people
elected to legislative office in this land, and such are unfit for
the task.

This nation is daring God to bring His judgment on it, and they may
get their bluff called, and in spades.

The twaddle heads who spend their generous allowances on caviar and
are driven around in taxpayer-provided limousines are some of the
biggest cowards this nation has ever seen. Most of our recent
presidents never fought in a war or even served their time in the
military to which they were called, other than enough to say they
were in prior to getting out as quickly as possible. Issues are
never as important as gossip and mudslinging in a political
campaign, but viciousness has never been as vile as it is today.
Perhaps that is all the tabloid mentality of Americans raised on
puppet television programs can digest. Tabloid papers and magazines
make millions while magazines for thinking people go begging for
subscribers.

American intelligence is an oxymoron -- militarily and civilian
applications included.

The once great churches are still fighting, but they are fighting an
uphill battle against a witless Congress that is going to follow the
Global Governance agenda in spite of what the million or so thinking
people in this nation want. There are nearly three hundred million
who cannot read adequately, think clearly or understand what is
happening, so they do as they are told.

That is precisely what will bring judgment on this land. America is
nowhere in Bible prophecy, largely because it will not be
distinguishable as America, it will be a smorgasbord of ethnicities
who will make it a battleground of ideals against which there will
be no recourse to anything, anywhere, and with the blessing of a
traitorous Supreme Court that blesses the evil and curses the good.

When we had character we were a strong people who would not allow so-
called leaders to push through "thought crime" bills. Now that we
are weak, most people don't know what a thought crime is or what
thought crime laws will do to constitutional, civil and human
rights. When you do not have the right to think or act in accordance
with your conscience, under the constitutional law of the land, you
have no liberty. You are a serf in a kingdom of elitists whose only
objective is to see who gets the title this round of purported
elections.

The greatest thing that could strike this land is judgment severe
enough to bring people back to reality and reveal the leaders for
the cowardly scoundrels they are.

The more I withdraw from politics and retreat into the study of the
Christian Scriptures, the more I see why there is no peace on earth
and why there cannot be without a just and perfect Ruler, who has
promised to return. But is this not a political article? To some
extent it involves politics because it involves people, and people
are the raw material of politics. But more than that, it is a
statement of why America is weak and growing weaker in the absence
of a thinking electorate that will rise up and demand justice,
freedom and liberty for all, not just for the select few.

Our trees have produced rotten fruit that is poisoning the land. Our
own leaders have sold out the nation for gain for the enormously
wealthy, and then toss mud at each other as to who is worse -- those
who have done the evil deeds or those who are waiting their turn.

Movies, media and music do not lead the nation's moral values, they
reflect them. What is acceptable today would have called for jail
sentences forty to fifty years ago. And while we cannot go back,
there is a forward that can change paths, there's a fork in the road
every few feet, a decision to be made for good or for evil.

Look at what Congress is doing ... running bulldozers over the forks
and spitting in the eye of Americans who want our nation back to
something we can respect, calling us enemies of the state and other
epithets.

Well woe be to those whose feet run to Hell to gather more coals to
heap on the heads of those who retain their righteousness.

No one has yet repealed the law of retribution. No one ever will.

___________________________

"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with
this notice and hyperlink intact."

SOURCE (http://www.etherzone.com/2004/sees091004.shtml)
[edited by Chris]

Politicalmom

09-14-2004, 03:42 PM

What does this have to do with Kraft making healthier snacks??

WavingGirl

09-14-2004, 03:50 PM

What does this have to do with Kraft making healthier snacks??-----------
How flippant?

I suppose I should 'Explain'----

SOS---Same Old Sh--

It does get old.

Somewhere I think there is some advice about 'Judging Others'.

sls

nosferatuscoffin

09-14-2004, 03:59 PM

WavingGirl

09-14-2004, 04:15 PM

Actually, I think you gals are being a little hard on Waving Girl. Minimum Sam and his kind usually get better treatment then she has of late. I do not pretend to agree with a fair amount of what she has posted, but that is beside the point. We have a proud reputation of being tolerant to all sides and I have not seen Waving Girl flame like a lot of others that may not be too kind of conservatives have here in the past.

However, I would suggest that this thread be closed as it as totally gone off the track from it's original subject matter.
--------
Thank you, Nos.

The problems started elsewhere---very similar to this. I tried to explain--which then made things worse.

Color me confused.

I'm just tired of the rhetoric that floats about in general---Homosexuality, Pro Life/Pro Choice, Morality, Christianity, the failings of teachers and schools...

We are going to have to live in the nation together and pointing fingers and blaming is not going to help.

But, if we are going to get into 'Blame'--then I believe that Capitalism--the very nature of it---which puts the Free in Freedom, I have been told---leads to some of the moral decay.

Until I have a better thought--I am stuck with that.

Just the other day Bill O'Reilly said something I could agree with and I'm not a fan---Democrat/Republican---a two headed monster.

The Libertarians have been saying this for quite some time--not that I pretend to know what Libertarians believe.

I only know I don't like the extremes and I endeavor to make some sense out of all the opinions that float about.

Must be nice to know the answers---I have many questions.

sls

Politicalmom

09-14-2004, 04:17 PM

WavingGirl

09-14-2004, 04:24 PM

I beg to differ with you. She is attacking several people for responding to her article.

She took some comments totally out of context and went on a raging tangent that made absolutely no sense. Nobody said anything critical of her, and she started talking about how narrow and judgemental and horrible conservatives are. Most of what she said was incomprehensible anyway.------------
Yes, mea culpa---I did do that.

Then in another post---I tried to apologize.

And then it started up again----

But, 'Whatever'----

I've just heard Enough and I have heard some very radical ideas stated by Conservatives. Specifically, on another forum I was taken to task for having been a teacher in the public schools--A Poster Demanded that I explain why lower teacher/pupil ratios were worth 'His' tax dollars.

I don't feel that I have to do that---nor do I feel that I owe anyone any further explanations for my beliefs whatever they happen to be.

So once again-----the intermingling of assorted discussions with more Radical Conservatives on a variey of topics has been draining.

Is that clear enough?

Do you need/want another apology?

Morality-----let's just be very, very Moral.

Along with Morality, IMO, Tolerance---that ugly word--is needed.

Few seem interested in that lately.

sigh---I won't even try to tell you what I think of some other posts that I have read---filled with righteous zeal.
sls

HomeschoolrsRUs

09-14-2004, 11:18 PM

This is where it started ...

[ QUOTE ]
HomeschoolrsRUs said,
I sincerely apologize for any offense you may have perceived from my post, it was NOT intentionally directed at you personally. I was responding to Rink's post. It is my humble opinion that the fracturization of the traditional family coupled with an obvious turning away from the Word of God in all areas has fueled the abandonment of traditions and teachings passed on from generation to generation. It was a general statement about the general state of affairs in this country, not a personal condemnation, and I am truly sorry if it appeared that way. ...

Again, I most sincerely and humbly apologize if you took offense at my post, but I stand by my opinions.

Please enlighten me as to just WHO was being misinterpreted, stereotyped, and inflexible? The only "stand" I took, was to state that I stood by my opinion that I had posted to Rink.

I believe I made a valid point. I believe I communicated that point in a well thought-out, thought provoking manner. No where did I accuse any one person or poster of improper behavior. I went out of my way to apologize for any offense I might have seemed to give, and my post was lighthearted and well-mannered. Let's look at YOUR response, shall we?

WavingGirl said, Not to worry--I can see right now that I don't belong here either.

1. I never said you didn't belong here. If you feel that way it is YOUR perception, not the intent of my posted words, and I clearly stated that more than once.

WavingGirl said, Sad--when Christian/Conservatives must be so selective and To Stand By Their Opinions.

2. I am entitled to stand by my opinion ... it is, after all, MY OPINION. I do NOT have to be flexible, tolerant, alter, or compromise MY opinion to suit others, . . .

WavingGirl said, Requiring others of us to be 'Flexible'....

3. NOR was I requiring it of anyone else regarding their opinion(s).

WavingGirl said, Christianity is a religion with latitude IMO---evil public school teacher/Liberal/Feminist/Socialist that I have been called.

3. NO WHERE did I cast aspersions about YOUR politics, beliefs, or opinions. I have NEVER called you any of those things.

WavingGirl said, And I don't condemn gays--

4. Did I ever acuse you of condemning them? Did I ever berate you for NOT condemning them? What does this have to do with my post that you responded to? Absolutely nothing.

WavingGirl said, often rejected by My Own Kind... as was Christ..

5. And what kind would that be? The radical right-wing conservative conspiracy theorist group that you insinuate that I belong to?

You posted superfluous accusations of which I am NOT guilty, yet by their verbage suggests that I am a stereotypical Conservative to be "lumped in" with all the other so-called Conservatives you have come across. You accuse others of generalities when it comes to opinions about you, yet refuse to see that YOU do the same.

I am probably one of the most even tempered individuals on FC, not easily roused (save for 2 other posters who shall remain nameless). But I was HIGHLY offended by your posts. I made EVERY attempt to be genial and inoffensive. And yet, I'm sure, if I offer this defense of my self, as I did in previous posts, I will again be accused of "stereotypical religious, right-wing conservative" behavior.

In the immortal words of PopEye ... "I yam who I yam, and that's all I yam." That's all I can be.

WavingGirl

09-15-2004, 07:39 AM

This happened on another forum--I just don't want to do this again.

Or find someone else to 'Call Out' and tangle with you. 'Highly Offended'--and even tempered----if you say so.

That is what I don't enjoy about Conservatives--the need to be Right.

I am a Christian myself--yet I simply see things a bit differently. I can't warm up to idea that Christianity should be anything other than a 'Choice'---so I guess that is something that bothers me. and the Judging of Others---that really bothers me.

I have friends who had abortions and need no reminder whatsoever of that painful decision----which is highly personal. Your sig line leads me to believe that you would judge my friends--I don't like that.

And--as an educator---I know many public schools are doing a good job facing head on the challenges of poverty and dysfunctional families. I once taught with a minister's wife who said of a child that had no family--was placed in an orphanage---'I wouldn't let that put his feet under my table..'
That sort of remark is something that makes me wonder what sort of Christianity is being practiced. She was a very Moral woman and yet that is not all that the religion requires. I consulted my own ministers for clarification and they were stunned to hear such a comment. That's all I know to tell you.

It seems we have moved away from 'Loving' others. And that was the Message.

I have to go with Thomas Jefferson---one's relationship to one's Creator is a private affair---there is just too much Judgment going on to suit me.

You continue to believe what you believe and I will continue to believe what I believe.

sls

WavingGirl

09-15-2004, 08:27 AM

These six core ethical values form the foundation of the CHARACTER COUNTS! youth-ethics initiative (http://www.charactercounts.org/). More detailed discussion of the Six Pillars is included in Making Ethical Decisions, a Josephson Institute booklet available online here (http://www.josephsoninstitute.org/MED/MED-6pillars.htm).

http://www.charactercounts.org/gif/trust3.gif
Be honest • Don’t deceive, cheat or steal • Be reliable — do what you say you’ll do • Have the courage to do the right thing • Build a good reputation • Be loyal — stand by your family, friends and country

http://www.charactercounts.org/gif/respect3.gif
Treat others with respect; follow the Golden Rule • Be tolerant of differences • Use good manners, not bad language • Be considerate of the feelings of others • Don’t threaten, hit or hurt anyone • Deal peacefully with anger, insults and disagreements...continued (http://www.charactercounts.org/defsix.htm)

__________________

This is what I would like everyone to agree upon ---and am more than willing to allow others to define God as they see fit.

----------------
Thomas Jefferson on Politics & Government
A good discussion of Jefferson's attitude toward separation and public education can be found in an extract from Leonard Levy's Jefferson and Civil Liberties: The Darker Side. (http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/jeffschl.htm)

Constitution gives no power over religion to the federal government:

Believing that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their Legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State (Letter to the Danbury Baptists, 1802).
Religion is a subject on which I have ever been most scrupulously reserved. I have considered it as a matter between every man and his Maker in which no other, and far less the public, had a right to intermeddle (letter to Robert Rush, 1813).
SOURCE (http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/qjeffson.htm)

[edited by Chris]

HomeschoolrsRUs

09-15-2004, 09:34 AM

You refer to what happened on another forum, then said you don't want to do it again. Don't superimpose past experience on me. I did nothing to warrant it. I am not calling you out, I am defending myself against someone judging me while accusing me of being judgmental. I don't care if you believe I am even-tempered or not. I have been posting for a considerable time and my posts speak for themselves. Yes I was, am, highly offended by your remarks. I don't demand that I am right, I enjoy the opportunity to share my opinion in a free forum of varied ideas and opinions, and that was what I was doing by posting to this thread. I don't enjoy being accused of your idea of a typical conservative, your casting aspersions about me when you don't know me.

I didn't and don't question your Christianity. Don't make assumptions about mine. I never demanded you adopt my "idea" of Christianity, nor denegrated yours. That really bothers me. Whose judging whom?

You've had friends who've had abortions? Well I HAVE had one, I speak from experience. Did you KNOW that? You don't want to be reminded of their painful decision, well I am reminded of mine every day of my life. You make assumptions about my views on abortion based upon my sig without taking the time to even find out what they are? You assume that I will be critical of your friends, when you don't know what I believe. I don't like that. Whose judging whom?

As a homeschooling educator for over 11 years, I know plenty of successful good schools, school teachers, and homeschooling families. I don't demand that any of them adopt my view of education. You compare me with a past experience (with a minister's wife), and assume that I am the same and thereby treat me as such. I don't like that. Whose judging whom?

I too believe in "loving others," but it's not based on a warm, fuzzy feeling in the bottom of my heart. It requires action. Sometimes loving others requires tough love -- demanding something in return from others, such as personal responsibility and accountability.

As for this statement . . .
WavingGirl said,
I have to go with Thomas Jefferson---one's relationship to one's Creator is a private affair---there is just too much Judgment going on to suit me.

I agree, way too much judgment going on to suit me.

WavingGirl said,
You continue to believe what you believe and I will continue to believe what I believe.

Agreed.

WavingGirl

09-15-2004, 09:57 AM

Points taken.

Unfortunately the entire country seems to be 'Upset' over the way things are going.

I just can't really stand much more---'We hate Hollywood', We hate gays, we hate this group or that group---the schools are ruining society and so on.

When you 'Get Out There' and try to work with those who really haven't had a 'Fair Shake'--it does seem that more needs to be done to 'Help' them; thus my confusion when so many seem to object.

There are both Conservative and Liberal aspects to Christianity I have concluded. Paradoxical.

I don't know much---of that I am certain but hatred is just not a good thing and it seems to be growing.

Time to get a different attitude, IMO.

sls:smirky:

As for the minister's wife--'I wouldn't let that put its feet under my table...'

That's just a little too tough---I wanted to cry when she said it.

The child had no control over the circumstances of his birth and I would have let him sit at my table. Christ was pretty clear about how he felt about 'The Least of These'.

On another occasion the same woman interjected her views on abortion into a conversation I was having with a student.

Not that I was advocating abortion---she just saw it as her Duty I suppose to express her beliefs.

There will be people like that.

I can't say I enjoy them.

Chris

09-18-2004, 07:51 PM

And--as an educator---

As an educator, do you understand the concept of footnotes, and why they are important? How about the term "copyright violation"? Do you know what it means when the following is attached to an published article?

"Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed."

How about this? Notice the last three words.

"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with
this notice and hyperlink intact."

.

CaliGirl

09-19-2004, 10:46 PM

Chris

09-23-2004, 02:19 PM

Don't waste your time trying to understand it Cali. She picked up the few little marbles she had and stomped off anyway. And, it's all our (us evvvviiiil, intolerant, blah, blah, blah, conservatives) fault too, doncha know? :rolleyes: