the CBS 60 Minutes FRAUD

[meshuga_mikey]

60 Minutes' Documents on Bush Might Be Fake
By Robert B. Bluey
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
September 09, 2004

(CNSNews.com) - The 32-year-old documents produced Wednesday by the CBS News program "60 Minutes," shedding a negative light on President Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard, may have been forged using a current word processing program, according to typography experts.
Three independent typography experts told CNSNews.com they were suspicious of the documents from 1972 and 1973 because they were typed using a proportional font, not common at that time, and they used a superscript font feature found in today's Microsoft Word program.

please note the less than totally obliterated ADDRESS....in this Documents less than totally REDACTED.....blacked out address.....

STILL CLEARLY VISIBLE isnt it



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/DetroitSlim/fakeCBSdoc.jpg The CBS BUSH "docs" Fraud Story (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=%5CPolitics%5Carchive%5C2004 09%5CPOL20040909d.html )

would SEE BS lie to us? :libsoffme

[Jeffrho]

This is blowing up in their faces. According to a thread over at Free Republic, ABC and FNC are reporting that these documents are forgeries (duh!!). See Biased News has got some 'splainin' to do! FONTGATE!!

[dajoga]

If true, is CBS open to a lawsuit by GW? They claim they had experts verify them.

[Riverboat]

I watched the ABC news coverage. It mentioned the possibility of out-of-date fonts, but that's as far as they allowed. If FOX uncovers more (maybe they already have as of this writing), the others will have to wipe the ketchup from their faces.

[RayChuang]

I think the Old Media thought they could pull a fast one on the American public.

Only one problem: they forgot about the New Media, especially the public Internet and conservative talk radio! Close examination of the documents provided by CBS showed that they looked EXACTLY like something you could create with Microsoft Word 2002 for Windows! :shame:

Whoever concocted this idea is definitely a :dimbulb:

[Naturalized-Texan]

Is It a Hoax? (http://weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=4596&R=9FCD2F192)

Experts weigh in on the 60 Minutes documents. Says one: "I'm a Kerry supporter myself, but . . . I'm 99% sure that these documents were not produced in the early 1970s."

DOCUMENTS CITED Wednesday by 60 Minutes in a widely-publicized expose of George W. Bush's National Guard Service are very likely forgeries, according to several experts on document authenticity and typography. The documents--four memos from Killian to himself or his files written in 1972 and 1973--appear to indicate that Bush refused or ignored orders to have a physical exam required to continue flying. CBS News anchor Dan Rather reported the segment and sourced the documents this way: "60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents we are told were taken from Col. Killian's personal file," he said. The 60 Minutes story served as the basis for follow-up news reports for dozens of news organizations across the country. The memos were almost immediately questioned in the blog world, with blog Power Line (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php) leading the charge.

And according to several forensic document experts contacted by THE WEEKLY STANDARD say the Killian memos appear to be forgeries. Although it is nearly impossible to establish with certainty the authenticity of documents without a careful examination of the originals, several irregularities in the Killian memos suggest that CBS may have been the victim of a hoax.

"These sure look like forgeries," says William Flynn, a forensic document expert widely considered the nation's top analyst of computer-generated documents. Flynn looked at copies of the documents posted on the CBS News website (here (http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay4.pdf), here (http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay19.pdf), here (http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust1.pdf), and here (http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust18.pdf)). Flynn says, "I would say it looks very likely that these documents could not have existed" in the early 1970s, when they were allegedly written.


{More at the link above.}

[Samcat]

What did you expect from the Demoncrat Dan Rather and company? Fair and balanced coverage with the President?

How come they never investigated the Swift Boat veterans' claims?

Guess they are not interested in investigating their hero....

[meshuga_mikey]

having set type since such could be done on a personal PC and having spent MANY DOLLARS having it set on phototype machines as far back as the mid seventie .for advertsing purposes in slick magazines.....I can assure one and all that these things are FORGED

the pacing or KERNING of the individual charaters of type could not have been created on any typewriter ever made

the letter spacing is MUCH MUCH too tight

the phoney INCOMPLETE redaction of the address in the image I posted at the head of this thread would NEVER pas muster in Gubment work

whoever faked thi mess thinks were all naive.... ignorant or just plain dumb

this surely ............is john kerrys BLUE DRESS

may he wear it in reasonably good health for the rest of his miserable life

[meshuga_mikey]

According to one ABC News employee, some reporters believe that the Kerry campaign as well as the DNC were parties in duping CBS, but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7096
*

[Apollo5600]

Quick Reply

Concerning the poorly blacked out portion:

5000 Longmont #8? Is it accurate?

[corlorde]

Unreal.

Just when you think that the democrats can't get any lower, they cut a hole in the floor and climb down.

[RayChuang]

According to one ABC News employee, some reporters believe that the Kerry campaign as well as the DNC were parties in duping CBS, but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.
I don't think Karl Rove could dream up such a crazy scheme. It sounds more and more like someone keep inside the Kerry campaign--like maybe national co-chair Ben Barnes himself--concocted this plan right from the start and got his friends in the New York Times Company (New York Times and Boston Globe) and CBS News to perpetrate this fraud. I have this feeling that a lot of heads will roll--don't be surprised that there will be shakeups at the Times and Globe, CBS News and the Kerry campaign (goodbye Dan Rather and Ben Barnes!). :wave:

[BEST45CAL]

I want to know who noticed the font. That's a sharp eyeball.:libsoffme

[tacitus]

It appears that election fraud is alive and well.

[dirtydogwoman]

In 1972, wasn't the "official" typeface "Courier 10"? I seem to remember something about all government documents being in Courier 10, even the papers typed up to go to court.

[Samcat]

According to one ABC News employee, some reporters believe that the Kerry campaign as well as the DNC were parties in duping CBS, but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7096
*
Now, I can see where this spin is going....Dumb Dan Rather was bushwacked by that diabolical Klever Karl Rove....

Too funny!

[BEST45CAL]

http://pages.prodigy.net/geoffc/bushandbias.jpg

i had a feeling something like this would happen lol

[Samcat]

Unreal.

Just when you think that the democrats can't get any lower, they cut a hole in the floor and climb down.Don't worry they can go lower. Trust me.

[BEST45CAL]

lol

[Naturalized-Texan]

5000 Longmont #8? Is it accurate?
That is a legitimate address in Houston.

[AZScreamingEagle]

A Story from FoxNews.COM
TV Writer Backing Texans for TruthFriday, September 10, 2004
http://www.foxnews.com/images/service_ap_36.gif

Daniel O'Keefe (search (http://search.foxnews.com/info.foxnws/redirs_all.htm?pgtarg=wbsdogpile&qcat=web&qkw=Daniel%20O%27Keefe)), a writer/producer whose work includes such sitcoms as "The Drew Carey Show" and "Seinfeld," donated $100,000 this week to Texans for Truth (search (http://search.foxnews.com/info.foxnws/redirs_all.htm?pgtarg=wbsdogpile&qcat=web&qkw=Texans%20for%20Truth)), an Austin-based group that plans to run anti-Bush television ads starting Monday.

O'Keefe said his donation was prompted by the ads of another group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (search (http://search.foxnews.com/info.foxnws/redirs_all.htm?pgtarg=wbsdogpile&qcat=web&qkw=Swift%20Boat%20Veterans%20for%20Truth)), accusing Democratic presidential hopeful Kerry of exaggerating his decorated Vietnam War service record. He said he also donated out of anger over Bush's failure to fight in Vietnam and the deaths of U.S. soldiers in Iraq.

"I'm a conservative Democrat, but this administration is out of control, and I've never seen dirtier politics than the Swift Boat stuff, and the hypocrisy of that when you have an honest-to-goodness American hero being torn down by the shadowy minions of a powerful family that helped a wayward son avoid his military obligations so he could party in the woods of Alabama," O'Keefe said Thursday in a telephone interview from Los Angeles. "I didn't think I could as a citizen do nothing."

The Bush campaign refuted O'Keefe's comments.

"The president's National Guard service was honorable," Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt said.

O'Keefe is currently working on "Listen Up," a new CBS sitcom about a sports columnist featuring former "Seinfeld" star Jason Alexander.

rest of article- http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131953,00.html




At every step they seem to be pushing more and more liberal
stuff, it is ridiculous. People complain about Foxnews, but
yet CBS gets a free pass, the heck with that, I will never
ever watch CBS programming again. I think it would be quite
something if we could organize some sort of boycott,
let these clowns know that people aren't going to
put up with their biased bullcrap now that we have
other options!

[nosferatuscoffin]

You are allowed to only post 25% of a given news article. Please go back and trim the post and provide a link to the story itself. This is to protect FC from any copyright infringment issues.

As for CBS and the other Alphabet DNC media outlets, they have losing viewers hand over fist for years, so there is no reason to worry about a boycott. The market speaks.

[Triller]

Three independent typography experts told CNSNews.com they were suspicious of the documents from 1972 and 1973 because they were typed using a proportional font, not common at that time, and they used a superscript font feature found in today's Microsoft Word programProportional font typewritters existed in the 40's. Features such as bold, italic and superscript font often involved replacing the wheel temporarily. Typewriters could do this at least in the 60's.
So it would be more sensible to find out which models of typewritter were being used in that place at that time. Best thing would be to find a heap of other documents written from the same place at the same date and comparing. If the documents accused of forgery are wildly different to any made at that time then forgery is extremely likely. If they are similar then the 'font' accusations of forgery are undermined. Either way you reach the truth on whether they were produced now or in the 70's.

[Samcat]

Yeah but there were not standard issue to write military reports.

[Webruary]

Questions :

1) Was the letter or memo signed by Killian ? If so, was his signature examined ?

2) Are you absolutely sure that the technology did not exist for the "th" font way back then ? I believe it did exist in the IBM selectric typewriters.

[nosferatuscoffin]

It did exist on the Selectric typewriters back then, since my Dad had an old Selectric I typewriter in those days and I used it a lot.

However, that almost certainly was not a standard issue, military typewriter back then. Most were still old time manual jobs, if I remember right.

[Maggie_T]

James is watching Dan Blather make a sorry spectacle of himself on TV, right now.

I'll let him tell me about it. I don't think I have the stomach to watch Blather try to squirm out of the mess he got himself into.

[UnkHiram]

Forged Documents, Lying Witnesses. Geez why do people say that the Media is bias.

[dajoga]

Is there any way of determining the age of the paper? Maybe they should send them to CSI? :thumb:

[BuckeyeMike]

Where's Hillary? I figure she(?) is gonna do something sooner or later to scuttle John Boy. This is an obvious forgery...so obvious,in fact, that it was probably done intentionally to blow up in John Boy's face.:patriot:

[Triller]

Apparently some of the documents about Bush's service from the 70's released by the whitehouse also had superscripted text in them.

[Jeffrho]

The IBM Composer could do superscripting (with a typeball change). It's not even close to what the CBS memos look like. Take a look at this:


The Issue of the Personnel Documents

The issue of the superscripted "th" has taken some absurd turns lately, with CBS and the Forgery Denial crowd going ga-ga over the fact that USA Today has a .pdfed personnel document (http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/10-5_2000_Personnel_File.pdf) from Bush that uses a little "th", too. "Ah ha! That proves we were right!" Really. Let's take a look at this "proof":

http://defeatjohnjohn.com/djj1/proofa.gif

Is anyone really arguing that this typewriter looks anything like the Killian memos? For one thing, it uses a Courier-style monospaced font -- the i's and m's and capital P's are all the exact same physical width. In fact, this typewriter looks a lot like the one I grew up and learned to type on, with the lowercase letter "L" being the exact same key as the numeral "1". Obviously, this isn't the typewriter we're looking for.

But even look at the superscripting, since that's what everyone is so excited about:

http://defeatjohnjohn.com/djj1/proofb.gif

The "th" key in this case seems to be one of those special/custom keys we've been told existed. But look closely -- the little th doesn't even go above the top of the "111" -- it's just lined up against the edge. If this even still counts as superscripting, it's obviously a very different type.

The CBS forgeries, of course, do the superscripting exactly like Microsoft Word, not the typewriter used in the Bush personnel file.SOURCE (http://defeatjohnjohn.com/pageone.htm)

And then there's this article (http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_shape_of_days/2004/09/the_ibm_selectr.html). The author contacted the owner of an IBM Selectric Composer website and had him attempt to duplicate the CBS memos, including the superscripting, using the Composer. He couldn't do it.

[Spadplanter]

This just found! Documents could be real! Story developing...

[maxparrish]

The IBM Composer could do superscripting (with a typeball change). It's not even close to what the CBS memos look like. Take a look at this:

And then there's this article (http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_shape_of_days/2004/09/the_ibm_selectr.html). The author contacted the owner of an IBM Selectric Composer website and had him attempt to duplicate the CBS memos, including the superscripting, using the Composer. He couldn't do it.
Its worse than that, see the following links (esp the second).

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1213508/posts (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1213508/posts)

"Most compelling site I've seen that proves the CBS memos are fake"

http://peterduncan.net/CBS_Documents.html (http://peterduncan.net/CBS_Documents.html)

Duncan nukes any claims to authenticity. Unreal.

[CAinSanFrancisco]

CBS continues to flounder badly on this story. Their "defense" is getting weaker by the day. Read this pathetic bit if you'd like a laugh:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/politics/main641481.shtml

My favorite part is the very last paragraph:

"There's one document from May 1972 that contains a normal "th" on the top. To produce that in Microsoft Word, you would have to go out of your way to type the letters and then turn the "th" setting off, or back up and then type it again," said Katz..

Oh my!! A forgerer couldn't possibly be bothered enough to do that could they? That might take all of 10 seconds. CBS is in a credibility nose-dive and picking up speed. You'll notice they still don't address the issue of kerning which is the real killer in this fraud. Typewriters DID NOT and COULD NOT kern letter pairs when this was supposed to have been written. I'm not sure if typewriters were ever made to do that.

[conservativegal]

They've got themselves in one heck of a corner this time and frankly, I love it. I despises their tactics, but love what they're lunacy and desperation are doing to them - they're just shooting themselves in the foot yet again and I say it's reason to celebrate! (I also would love to see the b*****ds sued myself!)