Blast; Mushroom Cloud reported in North Korea

[JonECat]

Blast, Mushroom Cloud Reported in N. Korea (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040912/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_explosion&cid=516&ncid=716)

7 minutes ago

By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press Writer

SEOUL, South Korea - A large explosion rocked the northern part of North Korea (news (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?fr=news-storylinks&p=%22North%20Korea%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw) - web sites (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=web-storylinks&p=North%20Korea)), sending a huge mushroom cloud into the air on an important anniversary of the communist regime, South Korea (news (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?fr=news-storylinks&p=%22South%20Korea%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw) - web sites (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=web-storylinks&p=South%20Korea))'s Yonhap news agency reported Sunday.




Citing an unidentified source in Beijing, Yonhap said the explosion happened on Thursday in Yanggang province near the border with China. The damage and crater left by the explosion in Kim Hyong Jik county was big enough to be noticed by a satellite, the source said.


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[UnkHiram]

Good Lord, can this possibly be true?

[JonECat]

Sounds like their getting serious, if there was any doubt that the North Koreans were a threat, that has now been erased.

[Wyatt_Junker]

So when is buttcheese going to hold up his little pinky finger to his lip and demand one meeeelleyun dollars or else he'll reduce us all to dustmotes?

I bet he has a hairless cat too.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/images/asia/jan-june00/koreas_6.jpg
But seriously, this guy is the bomb. His casual wear is so German techno aka Sprockets, its nearly-like an SNL rerun. He reminds me of the vampire dj's I used to know, the ones who thought they were cool, but really did all their spinning down at the roller rink.

I thought 'above ground' nuke flexing was against innernashunnul rules. Perhaps we should wield our secret weapon: Jimminey Cahrtuer, no make that, Jimmy 'the teeth' Carter. Send him over there in a lead apron and a pair of titatnium tongs to dig around the ash site to authenticate whether or not the skidmark was indeed shit stained nuclear brown.

Oh, and BTW, thanks Clinton. Thanks a lot. And since your wearing you're heart out on your sleeve lately for all the world to see (isn't that kind of organic bling a bit guady, you attention grabbing whore monkey?) we are forever grateful for it, that you do, in fact, feel our pain. Thanks for sharing the tech and thank you for that little deal you had with Kimberly where he promised you he wouldn't go uranium on our ass if you gave him pallets of free Rice Krispies. Thanks, you dumbfuk.

And thanks, you pathetic, pitiful S. Korean dupes for your wonderful Sunshine Policies. We see that they do indeed work. I should say, in glowing terms.

[DoctorDoom]

Nuclear blasts have identifiable seismic "signatures". And, there would be no way to contain the radioactive debris, which would easily be detectable. If it were an N-blast, we'd know about it.

What it actually was remains for the powers that be to know. A powerful chemical blast will also create a mushroom. It's a characteristic of the explosion, not of the source.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The most powerful conventional bomb in the U.S. arsenal exploded in a huge, fiery cloud on a Florida test range on Friday after being dropped by an Air Force cargo plane in the last developmental step for the nearly 11-ton "mother of all bombs."

An MC-130E Combat Talon I dropped the 21,700-pound satellite-guided GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast Bomb, or MOAB, over the test range at Eglin Air Force Base in northwestern Florida, said base spokesman Jake Swinson.

A plume of smoke rose more than 10,000 feet in the air and was visible 40 miles away in Pensacola, Florida.

"It looked like a big mushroom cloud filled with flames as it grew and grew and grew," Swinson said after the afternoon test. "It was one of the most awesome spectacles I've seen."US Detonates 'Mother Of All Bombs' In Florida Test (http://www.rense.com/general45/USdetonatesmother.htm)

It might well have been a nuke, but the answer has to be awaited.

[Jeffrho]

Madeline Albright must be proud. Well done, Madam Secretary!!

http://edition.cnn.com/2000/ASIANOW/east/10/22/korea.north.albright.02.ap/story.alright.korea.reut.jpg

[Beowulf]

Well, we all knew this was coming. Problem is, he's psycho enough to use them if we don't kiss his ass.

[DoctorDoom]

If it was a nuke, at least he now has one less to use. There's always a silver lining.

[Faithful_Servant]

Korea is reporting that it was a munitions depot that went up. Sounds like BS to me. Most munitions depots built during the last 100 years or so have some kind of isolation/containment to prevent the type chain reaction explosion that would have been required to make this kind of explosion. IMO, NK was testing their own MOAB and "doesn't want anyone to know about it". Riiiiiight.....

[Trance]

Well, we all knew this was coming. Problem is, he's psycho enough to use them if we don't kiss his ass.
Well he'll learn fast that Bill Clinton is not in the White House any more. The days of kissing terrorist ass are history.

When Bill Clinton would be falling over himself to kiss NK's ass, GWB is saying "I dare ya, punk".

[dajoga]

Too bad it wasn't one of their nuclear facilities accidently blowing up!

"Opps, we don't know as much as we thought about nukes!"

[Golgo 13]

Kim Jong Il: 'Hey! Remember me - North Korea? I'm still crazy!'

[Black Phoenix]

Hey Bush! Enough talk! It never works with these nuts! They lied before, they'll lie again. We can't aford the next "test" to be in the capitol of South Korea. Get Tommy Franks (or the guy who replaced him, did Tommy retire?) and have him draw up a plan. Enough deplomacy. This guy didn't even respect a treaty made with soviet Russia during the cold war. The Chinese may be Communist to, but Kim doesn't look to me to respect that either. Look which border the bomb detonated on!

Sorry but, WAKE UP BUSH!:hissyfit: Make conditions for war before it's too late!

[Golgo 13]

There's a little concept called MAD, or Mutually Assured Destruction that goes into effect when two countries are at odds with each other and have nuclear capabilities. First person to launch a nuke loses; gets 50 launched back at them. It's what stopped the Cold War from getting hot.

Kim Jong Il has also stated that he would nuke the entire planet if anyone were to nuke at North Korea.

Because hey, if you have to go out, go out shootin'.

[Black Phoenix]

Nuke the whole planet with eight nukes? Yea right. Anyway, don't we know where those nukes are? Just blow them up before Kim gets a chance to launch.

[Black Phoenix]

I guess it is unrealistic to think that we know where everything is, but this is the worst threat we've had in a long time. We could easily surround the borders with US and allied troops and unites to shoot down any nukes or destroy any transports. Will there be casualties? Oh yea, we've known that all along about a War with NK. I'm no general, but I could get a rough idea of what needs to be done, that's why I reccomened Franks and company. By no means put a politician in charge of this!:hissyfit:

I know, I don't want war more than anyone else, but I've been studying the case with North Korea. They just tell us they'll go along with us, then they use the cool down peroid to build their arsenal. They've got nothing on us or they'd probably be using it at this rate. If we could convince the Chi Coms Kim is a threat, just imagine how many weapons we could have around Kim's borders in just a few days. In a nuclear exchange he'd lose hands down, so that's not likely. If he's smart he'll try to engage us with regular technology, hoping reports of casualties will weaken our resolve. Hey, it's been done before.

Kim's allies? So far as I konw he doesn't have very many loyal allies, no one really likes him because he's such a wild boar. If China won't back him, it's probably safe to say no one will.

[nene]

There's a little concept called MAD, or Mutually Assured Destruction that goes into effect when two countries are at odds with each other and have nuclear capabilities. First person to launch a nuke loses; gets 50 launched back at them. It's what stopped the Cold War from getting hot.

Kim Jong Il has also stated that he would nuke the entire planet if anyone were to nuke at North Korea.

Because hey, if you have to go out, go out shootin'.
Mutually Assured Destruction means that all parties involved would be destroyed since their exists no viable defense. Under this concept a nuclear war is not winnable. I don't believe this concept applies to the United States and North Korea, at least not yet. They may have the bomb, but do they have the delivery system? Even if they did, still, they would lose in a nuclear conflict with the U.S. We can possible intercept a dozen or so ICBMs. But when you start talking increased numbers of nukes, then MAD applies.

[Golgo 13]

In all test trials of ICBM interception, we've only been able to intercept 1 and it was considered a fluke. Their takeoff and reentry speed is too great to intercept. Also take into account MIRV ICBM's that spread out live and dummy warheads, and you might be able to take out 1 real one if you're lucky.

[Black Phoenix]

I'll say it again, but will a little more clarity.

IN KIM'S POSITION ONLY A COMPLETE IDIOT WOULD USE NUKES!

He wants to bully but not fight. If he had to fight, firing Nukes would only make things worse for him. He's only got one nuclear power on his side. Himself. If he tries to attack the US he'll be over run by the Chinese, Russians and I'm sure South Korea will join the party to. Smush! He's a bug compared to China, Russia, America and almost any one of the allies in the UN or Nato. If we got a 30 strong collation together here, like on Iraq, Kim would be in big trouble.

If we start talking war he could always launch a nuke in hopes of scaring everyone. But that's a game of chance. If so much as one of his large enemies decides to use that as an excuse to go to war immediately and wipe him out, he'll be helpless, already haveing escalated this war to a level at which he can't compete.

[Faithful_Servant]

Nuke the whole planet with eight nukes? Yea right. Anyway, don't we know where those nukes are? Just blow them up before Kim gets a chance to launch.BP, I work with a couple of S. Koreans and I've had some interesting discussions with them about the relationship between N. and S. Korea. We can talk about the things we would like to do to nuetralize Kim, but the problem is that N. Korea can strike at Seoul w/o crossing the border. This creates a huge problem in that we do not have the technology to prevent these attacks from happening. We can destroy the launching facilities after the fact, but we don't have the ability to take them out pre-emptively, unless we use nukes. Scott and Young are both native born Koreans and as a result have spent time in the military (2 years mandatory service, if memory serves). They have both spent time with the troops monitoring the DMZ, so they have both been pretty thoroughly educated in the politcal reality of the relationship between N. and S. Korea.

[Black Phoenix]

BP, I work with a couple of S. Koreans and I've had some interesting discussions with them about the relationship between N. and S. Korea. We can talk about the things we would like to do to nuetralize Kim, but the problem is that N. Korea can strike at Seoul w/o crossing the border. This creates a huge problem in that we do not have the technology to prevent these attacks from happening. We can destroy the launching facilities after the fact, but we don't have the ability to take them out pre-emptively, unless we use nukes. Scott and Young are both native born Koreans and as a result have spent time in the military (2 years mandatory service, if memory serves). They have both spent time with the troops monitoring the DMZ, so they have both been pretty thoroughly educated in the politcal reality of the relationship between N. and S. Korea. There in lies the real problem.
Remember world war two? There are no garantees others will join in aganist Kim if he does something to Japan or South Korea. Only if they see themselves as threatened. Maybe if we did a covert operation of some kind to take out all of the facilities simultanioulsy. But that move is not a clear solution, how will we know we got them all? I still doubt Nuclear War as a possibility, since any action like that would get Kim in real trouble with at least America, and likely the rest of the world, even though garantees... course Kim isn't all there is he? He may just do something dumb like attack. I guess that's why Bush is trying to stay away from war, but to me it still seem inevitable.

(The last thing I want is for Kim to launch, I just doubt he will until he's got a good arsenal. If he gets one.....)

[Triller]

It was pres Bush if you remember who heated up this whole mess with his axis of evil speech.

[Black Phoenix]

What? Sorry but things have never been happy go lucky with North Korea since the Cold War. You just sound silly to me saying that.

[Wyatt_Junker]

It was pres Bush if you remember who heated up this whole mess with his axis of evil speech.
Yeah, that was it.

Put aside for the moment that Kim Jong already had cheated on his non-aggression-for-food pact (aka Madeleine Albright agreement) with the U.S. so that when Bush stepped into office all KJ had to do was unveil what already was.

But that's what truth does. Its a revealer. If a speech exposes the 1990's con game, then so be it.

You can keep living in your fantasy though as if the boogey men never possessed any firepower until Bush forced their hand. Truth was, they already had, more than you libs know.

[DesertFox]

What the Prussian said.

[Triller]

I didn't say NK wasn't on the bad list before the state of the union speech. I said Bush's speech heated the whole thing up unnecessarily. Addressing the world and stating NK is an "axis of evil" does not make our lives easier (does it?), the only possible effect is that for a while it just causes Kim to act like a child and refuse any diplomatic pressure to abandon nuclear development. Basically Bush burnt a diplomatic bridge. Regardless of the low probability that it would have actually been useful, he burnt it anyway. He then of course had to go and backpeddle like mad and assure NK that they weren't planning on invading them.

But you have to realise that Kim saw what happened with Saddam and that will surely play a huge role in how he thinks about diplomacy. I am sure Kim thinks he is the next target (even tho Bush made it clear that he isn't) and he probably thinks that any show of weakness (such as disbanding his nuclear arms) will just result in invasion (how would he prove he destroyed them?), so he will continue to develop them because he thinks they will assure the US will not attack him.

[Jeffrho]

It was pres Bush if you remember who heated up this whole mess with his axis of evil speech.Of course! Kimmie would have stayed in line had Bush ignored him. And in the wake of the worst attack on American soil, he should have been PRAISING tyrants like Kimmie. After all, America brought 9-11 on itself with it's rampant imperialism, right? Wait, I know!! President Bush should have followed Clintonalbrightcahtah's lead and sent them more nuclear fuel!! :rolleyes:

And people wonder why Europeans are labled as gutless appeasers. I have no idea why... except for their history of appeasing tyrants.

[Wyatt_Junker]

I didn't say NK wasn't on the bad list before the state of the union speech. I said Bush's speech heated the whole thing up unnecessarily. Addressing the world and stating NK is an "axis of evil" does not make our lives easier (does it?), the only possible effect is that for a while it just causes Kim to act like a child and refuse any diplomatic pressure to abandon nuclear development. Basically Bush burnt a diplomatic bridge. Regardless of the low probability that it would have actually been useful, he burnt it anyway. He then of course had to go and backpeddle like mad and assure NK that they weren't planning on invading them.
That bridge was burnt a long time ago. We already saw the fruits of engaging in diplomacy in the 1990's with this dictator. I suppose to you that means we should just engage in diplomacy AGAIN! Especially in light of his out-n-out lying to us and developing a nuclear weapons program anyway, in spite of Madelaine Albright's sophisticated brinksmanship(hahaha). We should, I suppose, try MORE diplomacy, MORE talks, MORE talk show tactics, MORE of the same while he just keeps chugging more uranium out from under his ass and, worse, gets a bonafide delivery system that would put at risk the entire North American hemisphere.

Bush's speech was good, at the time, and healthy. It put NK on notice that we know that they know that we know. And I hope we pull all our troops from the DMZ, which in turn will force the S.Koreans to abandon their ridiculously inept and naive 'sunshine policies'. Then, if our bilateral talks fail using China as a pivot point, then we prepare the next phase, yes, a violent one.

[Timberwolf]

So when is buttcheese going to hold up his little pinky finger to his lip and demand one meeeelleyun dollars or else he'll reduce us all to dustmotes?

I bet he has a hairless cat too.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/images/asia/jan-june00/koreas_6.jpgUh, Wyatt...wrong dude...that's a grown up Eric Cartman...with glasses.

But seriously, this guy is the bomb. His casual wear is so German techno aka Sprockets, its nearly-like an SNL rerun. He reminds me of the vampire dj's I used to know, the ones who thought they were cool, but really did all their spinning down at the roller rink.I was thinking that we might wanna check and see if he still has that sattelite dish in his ass.

I thought 'above ground' nuke flexing was against innernashunnul rules. Perhaps we should wield our secret weapon: Jimminey Cahrtuer, no make that, Jimmy 'the teeth' Carter. Send him over there in a lead apron and a pair of titatnium tongs to dig around the ash site to authenticate whether or not the skidmark was indeed shit stained nuclear brown.Why would anyone want to waste perfectly good lead and titanium??

Oh, and BTW, thanks Clinton. Thanks a lot. And since your wearing you're heart out on your sleeve lately for all the world to see (isn't that kind of organic bling a bit guady, you attention grabbing whore monkey?) we are forever grateful for it, that you do, in fact, feel our pain. Thanks for sharing the tech and thank you for that little deal you had with Kimberly where he promised you he wouldn't go uranium on our ass if you gave him pallets of free Rice Krispies. Thanks, you dumbfuk.

And thanks, you pathetic, pitiful S. Korean dupes for your wonderful Sunshine Policies. We see that they do indeed work. I should say, in glowing terms.Touché

[Triller]

That bridge was burnt a long time ago. We already saw the fruits of engaging in diplomacy in the 1990's with this dictator. I suppose to you that means we should just engage in diplomacy AGAIN!
Well your president sure thinks so.

Especially in light of his out-n-out lying to us and developing a nuclear weapons program anyway, in spite of Madelaine Albright's sophisticated brinksmanship(hahaha). We should, I suppose, try MORE diplomacy, MORE talks, MORE talk show tactics, MORE of the same while he just keeps chugging more uranium out from under his ass and, worse, gets a bonafide delivery system that would put at risk the entire North American hemisphere.Your argument is also with Bush if you don't think diplomacy is the way forward.

Bush's speech was good, at the time, and healthy. It put NK on notice that we know that they know that we know.what does that mean? Its just pseudo-babble. Bush's speech achieved nothing except putting up more diplomatic barriers between NK and the goals of the US.

And I hope we pull all our troops from the DMZ, which in turn will force the S.Koreans to abandon their ridiculously inept and naive 'sunshine policies'. Then, if our bilateral talks fail using China as a pivot point, then we prepare the next phase, yes, a violent one.Your first steps are provocative. Then you want to rush away those irksome diplomatic avenues. Afterall you know the bilateral talks will fail because you support provocation and name calling during diplomatic talks, which is a sure fire way to make the other side withdraw or refuse to accept anything. So I guess your plan is actually a bullet point plan to war.

I wonder if you would have advocated the violence phase so quickly against the soviet union during something like the cuban missile crisis if one round of diplomatic talks failed. At what point do you decide the violent phase isn't an option due to the threat of retaliation? Perhaps when it is your country that is threatened and not Somewhere Else tm. Should it not be the South Koreans who decide whether or not North Korea is attacked? Afterall it is their asses on the line if North Korea is actually able to retaliate. Perhaps for the south koreans they would prefer diplomatic talks to go on indefinitely rather than risk thousands of their lives, I dunno.

[Wyatt_Junker]

Well your president sure thinks so.Big difference. Billy Jethro's admin. thought a lot of smiles and handshakes would go a long way toward establishing North Korea nirvana. One-on-one tea sessions with Albright. She even got a bunch of Olan Mills wallet-sized snapshots to hand out at parties. President Bush's kind of diplomacy is much different; lace it with consequences and bring in China using Taiwan as a carrot.


Your argument is also with Bush if you don't think diplomacy is the way forward.Wrong. See above.


what does that mean? Its just pseudo-babble. Bush's speech achieved nothing except putting up more diplomatic barriers between NK and the goals of the US.Diplomacy, if it is strictly a pretense, does nothing except buy you political points via photo-ops just like Mama Albright's did. We can either go in the direction of more pretense or the other direction; truth-saying. Its important that as we do go into another round of talks it is preceded this time with a foundation of truth as a basis for going forward. Otherwise we're all just pissing in the wind, again. This is a dictator, if you must be reminded.

Your first steps are provocative. Then you want to rush away those irksome diplomatic avenues. Afterall you know the bilateral talks will fail because you support provocation and name calling during diplomatic talks, which is a sure fire way to make the other side withdraw or refuse to accept anything. So I guess your plan is actually a bullet point plan to war.

I wonder if you would have advocated the violence phase so quickly against the soviet union during something like the cuban missile crisis if one round of diplomatic talks failed. At what point do you decide the violent phase isn't an option due to the threat of retaliation? Perhaps when it is your country that is threatened and not Somewhere Else tm. Should it not be the South Koreans who decide whether or not North Korea is attacked? Afterall it is their asses on the line if North Korea is actually able to retaliate. Perhaps for the south koreans they would prefer diplomatic talks to go on indefinitely rather than risk thousands of their lives, I dunno.And violence does have its place, if, in the end, a stalement is reached. Our country's security is already at too much risk. As to the South Koreans, they need to start making their exodus now. I'm not as concerned with them, as I stated above, as to the rest of the globe when Mr. Freak actually gets a workable delivery system that can touch either California or New York. Perhaps if the SK's stopped their bullshit-ridden 'sunshine policies' longer ago, I'd have more sympathy for them, but I do not.

If we find out that China is a bigger problem than we first thought by not backing us in NK, then our problem is two-fold. Right now its just one dickhead. After the talks, we will find out. However, I'm doubtful that China won't put her weight into it. Every year it is increasingly apparent how much they rely on us in trade, NTM the fact that the old Chicom guard is dying off one prick at a time as the younger population looks to Hong Kong and the consumer electronic industry as their future. And the fact that they are making strides, especially in the last year, to respect copyright infringement and intellectual property rights which suggests that they want to enter that race with us. Good sign.

All of which alienates the freakish North Korean dictator, making him look outdated, alone and odder by the day. Who wants to embrace something as retro and morbid as a WW II mentatlity when the future is in money, which is the real war. All China has to do is completely recognize that, joining us in that economic symbiosis(trade), they've already embraced it in many ways already, and then we can squash ****face Pompadour Onepiece together. Whether that happens or not is another matter.

[Black Phoenix]

Well your president sure thinks so.Some of us here think talks are used up, but he's still in multi-lateral talks with North Korea.

Agreements were made with North Korea about Nulcear proliferation when Russia was still soviet. NK broke the conditions after making the agreements. Sound farmiliar?
Hence why I think talks are used up.

And I hope we pull all our troops from the DMZ, which in turn will force the S.Koreans to abandon their ridiculously inept and naive 'sunshine policies'. Then, if our bilateral talks fail using China as a pivot point, then we prepare the next phase, yes, a violent one.Actually, I don't like this idea either. Pull our troops from the DMZ? South Korea will be crushed in a war if we pull away from them. They're no match for North Korea. We're there because the Korean war hasn't offically ended. Maybe their state of not being a match is what is making them eager for peace.

[Wyatt_Junker]

Actually, I don't like this idea either. Pull our troops from the DMZ? South Korea will be crushed in a war if we pull away from them. They're no match for North Korea. We're there because the Korean war hasn't offically ended. Maybe their state of not being a match is what is making them eager for peace.
A stalemate is only good insofar as it remains so. What negates this is NK's aggressive pursuit of nuclear weapons on Clinton's watch creating imbalance. An imbalance that we can no longer afford. Clinton thought he could just keep kicking the can down the road for somebody else to deal with, as long as it bought him more political glory, a very costly pretense as we have recently seen.

Kim Jong will not hesitate to trade weapons on the black market. We have too many enemies to allow that to happen. Push has already come to shove. A pulling back of American troops from the DMZ will do just the opposite of what you stated. It will create a mere minor topographical void in terms of power, yet the psychological implications are much grander in scale. Its the same effect as a spaghetti western when two men draw. The rest of the town clears out of Main Street.

And while America clears out, we let the South Koreans enjoy the gratitude they never exercised. IOW, we're making it too easy for them. Take away some of the pressure and see what develops in the region. If NK advances, we can bring a full assault on them in just under a minute with regional nuclear submarines, raining down the grimmest sort of hellfire imaginable. And its about time the rest of the world saw it...as a warning shot.

The only part of this strategy that is missing is getting China and Russian on board. If we can, and they greenlight us, then we can slaughter the entire NKorean regime and hammer the ****er out entirely.

[NowhereMan]

Yeah because all those people suffering horribly under the boot of Kim Jong Il and starving to death will finally be put out of their misery in a raging inferno of atmoic fire. Serves them right for not attempting to rise up and getting buchered by the army. The South Koreans and Chinese will also be overjoyed to find they no longer need street lighting at night seeing as the ****ing roads are glowing. I applaud your sound strategic thinking.

On the point of pulling US troops out, it would be seen as a withdrawal of US support for South Korea and would probably encourage them to greatly further diplomatic talks with the North as any possibly military option on their part (including being able to defend against an attack) would be gone. Also any attempt to launch a pre-emptory strike against NK is going to have a bad ending as due to the close proximity of SK and China Nukes aren't an option. Precision strikes that target their nuclear facilities don't work either because NK has enough conventional artillery in range of Seoul to reduce it to dust in next to no time. Unless you can come up with a Missile Defence system that can garuantee 100% success at taking out ICBMs and artillery shells you aren't going to sell a military option to the South Koreans.

In other words the South Koreans pursue their sunshine policies because they have to. Their only other option is not talking to North Korea and just hoping that they don't decide to attack. And Kim Jung Il is the kind of nut who probably would if it looked like his regime was going to collapse imminently.

[Wyatt_Junker]

Since when did nukes get their felonious label, lib? And I'm not talking about the global pulse of diplomatic etiquette or tea sessions(as much as you Brits think otherwise), where a sub-rosa discussion of nuclear application makes one a blasphemer in multicultural circles. Remember, you are talking about the first nation that broke the nuclear hymen on real people. It was worthy then, and it could be worthy again.

At this point in the game nothing is verboten, even, God forbid, uppin' the weapons systems ante a slight tick. The only thing that bugs you, I assume, is the slur that a nuke engenders in your liberal, effeminate brain, perhaps from some grace-free Catholic heritage. IOW, yer a snob. Nukes are beneath you. You've evolved beyond such classless exercises. Your global strategy is nothing more than a college elective on golf etiquette for beginners.

Go put on a Beatles album, rent-boy, they're more poplular than Christ in your sick country. And stand outta the way and let the men take care of you women.

[Wyatt_Junker]

BTW, re those South Korean Sunshine Policies, is that the equivalent of closing one's eyes and plugging one's ears while shouting lalalalalalalalalala? You know, like a monkey that sees no evil, nor hears it. Diplomacy of 3rd grade.

A 'sunshine policy' is like Disney's Zippety Do Dah song. My, oh, my what a marvelous day. I'm seeing pink elephants here. You know the one. Its in the living room and everyone has to squeeze around it just to take a piss. If you have to call something 'sunshine' its probably pretty grim, disingenuous and cloudy. We, humans, tend to do what's easiest, compromising our better natures. And America did it up to a point with the Soviets, until we got a leader with some nads. The SKers could learn a lot from the Gip.

[Black Phoenix]

Wyatt_Junker

I must take offence here. I'm no liberal. I'm talking war just like you, but am taking issue with you on abondoning South Korea. Like the Jews, they are our allies. We should be there for them. If we pull out our troops, they may just surrender, and that won't help us one bit, infact that would be counterproductive.

I keep remembering World War two, how I've learned how long the United States played isolationist and stayed out of the war, even when Europe was invaded. How does South Korea know it can count on our support if it acts militarily, if we pull away? They're most logical course of action, if we leave is to surrender, because otherwise they'll get creamed.

Also, I'm a little on the shallow side of being informed on South Korea's policy, could you post some links or something so I have the slightest idea why you're being so nasty about it?

Nowhereman
You're talking in terms of old nuclear technology. If we attacked with nuclear weapons today, there would be less fall out. (Neutron and "Clean Hydrogen" bombs.) No, South Korea and China won't see a huge glow. Also, strategic attacks will be very hard to stop for the NK, North Korea may have technology more advanced than Iraq, but that's really not saying much. vbmenu_register("postmenu_179387", true);

Edit:
What the: vbmenu_register("postmenu_179387", true);
What is that? How did I get that?