What Do You Think of the H&K P7-M8 Pistol?

[Rink]

I'm curious as to what some of the gun enthusiasts here have to say about this lil pistol, it seems to be a very good concealed-carry pistol for size and speed seems to not be a problem also in the use of it as well for self defence purposes.

What do you think? I have two links here to peruse.

http://the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/HK-P7-M8-MED-nam.jpg

The Heckler and Koch P7 M8 9mm (http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product950.html)


then this link: Heckler - Koch PSP P7 P7M8 P7M13 P7M10 pistols (Germany) (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg52-e.htm)

I just wonder what others who shoot more pistols than I do and may have possibly shot this pistol have to say about it, whether its a good pistol to invest in or not.

I know its pricey but if its worth the money I'll save up for it.

[BEST45CAL]

When it comes to personal protection, I am pretty much open to just about anything that is concealable. Hey, if it goes "bang" then it's a winner with me.

If it's easy to carry, then I like it even more--whether it's a full-sized .45 auto, or one of those tiny, single-action .22 revolvers that can be worn as a belt buckle.

This is one of those things that mostly depends upon personal preference because it won't matter what you're carrying if you're not on the draw first.

The H&K is a wonderful weapon. I wouldn't hesitate carrying or using it. Plus, it looks kinda cool. It's very similar to the weapon that was used by Alan Rickman's character in the first "Die Hard" movie.

If you can afford it and if you want it, buy it. Then practice, practice, practice.

[Rink]

Kewl thanks, the gun I have is a semi-compact and I've had troubles concealing it, and was thinking of saving up for another more smaller pistol as I have my CCW and do want to carry.

For some rreason my Glock 19 in 9mm just dont wanna be concealeable for me, not sure if its the way I'm built or whatnot, I dunno.

I DO know I was more accurate with the Ruger P-95, although i wasnt too sure of the slide's loose action, when i went to search for and buy a gun, the gun shop didnt have a Ruger P-95 but it did have the glock which i was secondly most accurate with.

Also not sure of Rugers, not sure if they are good reliable guns or not, I DO LOVE the H&K's of all kinds though and Do want one eventually, and this one looks like a decent conceal carry that wont be trouble for me in a tight situation.

On a side note, one problem I have is, I have freakin long fingers, so i need a gun that can accomodate my long fingers.

[cowgirl]

Rink
I am curious if you have ever had to use a weapon to protect yourself? I know that once I got harassed on a subway, I was fairly frightened, ok I was very frightened and luckily I kept my head on and was able to exit the train at the last minute and the guy was not fast enough to get out the door. The one thing that struck me was how rubbery my knees went and how hard I was shaking. I could barely hold my keys in my hand let alone anything else. I used my head but mostly got lucky.

That was in NYC, years later I lived in Chicago in what used to be a nasty area. I had two large dobermans. They were both schitzhund trained (by me) and really knew what they were doing. Something about having a weapon that is NOT concealed goes a long long way :tongue:

People crossed the street to avoid us. I never ran into a problem in the street or in my home. Some moron tried to break in and twas the last thing he tried to do. The dogs held him to the wall no problem while I called 9/11.. and the beauty of it was that he was so scared that he actually peed in his pants. I would have been scared as well pinned to the wall by 200 lbs of combined doberman.

My present dog is smaller but not to be messed with. Someone attempted to break into my truck while she was in there, another bad move.. she tore him from his shoulder to his hand. He was still there when I got out of the store, so I just opened the door and asked him if he would like his entire body to look like his arm, he ran.

If I was ever in trouble I do not think I would be collected enough to even think about using a gun, I was trained to use all sorts of guns for my last job, but one has to completely be able to keep their cool to use one under stress. I suppose I am just to much of a wimp to pull it off so I just let the dogs do it for me.

[Wolfcounsel]

"If I was ever in trouble I do not think I would be collected enough to even think about using a gun, I was trained to use all sorts of guns for my last job, but one has to completely be able to keep their cool to use one under stress." --cowgirl


The main thing about defending yourself with any weapon is to decide whether you would rather be judged by twelve, or you and your loved ones each buried by six. Stress will be there regardless.

[cowgirl]

[/QUOTE]The main thing about defending yourself with any weapon is to decide whether you would rather be judged by twelve, or you and your loved ones each buried by six. Stress will be there regardless.[/QUOTE]
That would be assuming that you actually had it together enough to use the weapon. As a self proclaimed moron when scared to death, chances are I would be buried by six with or with out a weapon.

[nene]

cowgirl, your honesty is refreshing. I think you experienced a moment of self-awareness. You recognized an element about yourself that can be corrected. You can always take courses in self-defense. I don't mean karate or the like, but rather tried and proven techniques that do not require an individual to be in great physical health. Also if you own a firearm, you must go to target practice to really become at ease with its use. Confidence is something that is acquired through accomplishments. This confidence will help you to act during those rare critical moments when your full fury must be brought to bear.

[BEST45CAL]

Nene is right. If you become familiar with how to react, then what you have learned will come back to you naturally in a stressful situation.

You will never have to look back and say, I wish I had done this, or, I wish I had done that, because you will have done it. That comes with training and quality practice.

One feeling that can remain is the stress, however, confidence gained from training and familiarity with the stress will make it much more bearable. It will not be paralyzing. It will be your body telling you that it's ready to kick ass.

The stress that can be generated from an encounter where you have to defend yourself could quickly turn into relief and an overwhelming sense of well-being when you are victorious. It's like any other accomplishment.

Good luck, Cowgirl.:thumb:

[TheRealLobo]

I've stated it MANY times. NOTHING can replace "muscle memory", and the more practice you have with anything the better off you are.

Note that it is VITALLY important that you practice a lot of "what if" scenarios. It's a lot better to practice "what if" than to have to say "what now?".

[cowgirl]

cowgirl, your honesty is refreshing. I think you experienced a moment of self-awareness. You recognized an element about yourself that can be corrected. You can always take courses in self-defense. I don't mean karate or the like, but rather tried and proven techniques that do not require an individual to be in great physical health. Also if you own a firearm, you must go to target practice to really become at ease with its use. Confidence is something that is acquired through accomplishments. This confidence will help you to act during those rare critical moments when your full fury must be brought to bear.Ah you guys are all very encouraging.. and you are right it would actually have to be a commitment, like anything else that needs to get done.
I do in fact enjoy the fact that I have a dog that will die for me.. it is not the same as fire arms I know but in a pinch she does GREAT.
I have done plenty of shooting and was required to learn how to load and unload every weapon available. I worked as the field "shrink" for the Chicago PD, I went on all their calls where there was a potential nut case, or suicide attempt or a rape etc. They were worried that if I was ever in a situation where there were guns that hit the ground that I would at least know how to get the bullets out or how to fire them. EVERYONE used to come to watch at target practice for the sheer entertainment value.. I was OK with giving the guys a good laugh but I was never very comfortable.. the damned things go up in the air when you shoot them and I ended up destroying the ceiling!

[nene]

When you are confronted with a bigger opponent, in an altercation without a firearm, you manipulate that which you can, eyes, fingers, joints etc.

If your firearm pulls up, its because the way you are pulling the trigger. Squeeze, using the finger, don't pull using your hand. Always aim center mass.

[Rink]

I have not used a pistol in self-defence no and hope to God I never have to, I dont like the idea of having to shoot someone, but I'm a realist.

I cant have large dogs in this house, as my mother has a teacup maltese and large dogs with such a little delicate pooch just wont mix, not to mention my mother is very frail and I fear large dogs in the house might knock her down which just isnt amenable to her health (yes I live in the same house as my mother and I take care of her.)

I have had some scarey calls, I though do my utmost to present a strong confidant figure, I walk in a bold manner and I keep a strong attitude when goin anywhere.

I am not that big though I'm 5'5'' and petitely built, I want at least some protection when I go into town, as I live in the country I do my grocery shopping in town (Vancouver WA) and I just do NOT want to be in a situation where I would have needed a gun even though I hope to God I never ever have to use one.

I'm a realist, when I go into town, I go alone, I drive alone, I have nobody to go with.

I just need a more concealeable pistol than the one I have, another thing I seriously want is a kerambit knife, to me the kerambit is a woman's best friend, as it is very hard to dislodge from a womans hand due the the little ring.

I do my best to be aware of my surroundings, all the time, I do my utmost to be cautious, when I approach my car, I keep my keys in my hand downward 'just in case' and I hit the door lock button before I get to the car but also while I have a clear view of my car and the parking lot. One thing I DO have is very good eyesight, poor hearing but excellent eyesight it helps me a lot.

[Rink]

PS: nene, I have at one time been confronted in a parking lot by a huge black man aggressively peddling 'candy' he had a little child in tow with him, this guy towered over me and was nothing but muscles.

How the heck do I 'maniplulate' the eyes fingers joints etc?? when the guy literally towers over ya?

[TheRealLobo]

When you are confronted with a bigger opponent, in an altercation without a firearm, you manipulate that which you can, eyes, fingers, joints etc.

Then run like hell.


If your firearm pulls up, its because the way you are pulling the trigger.

If I may add to it. If your firearm is pulling up, you are potentially "limp wristing" it. Make sure your wrist is LOCKED. Many times, if you spend the day at the range, you become tired or simply complacent, and you start letting your wrist relax. With lighter weight firearms, you'll also note failure to feed problems when you limp wrist.


Squeeze, using the finger, don't pull using your hand.

Don't wrap your whole finger into the trigger guard. When you put your finger on the trigger, you should have the "pad" of the finger (where your fingerprints are) resting on the trigger, and NOT the joint of the finger.

Always aim center mass.

Double-tap. Then if they don't stop, put one between the eyes.

Practice your failure drills. Practice, practice, practice until your ammo bill looks like the GNP of a small third world nation.

[cowgirl]

I have not used a pistol in self-defence no and hope to God I never have to, I dont like the idea of having to shoot someone, but I'm a realist.

I cant have large dogs in this house, as my mother has a teacup maltese and large dogs with such a little delicate pooch just wont mix, not to mention my mother is very frail and I fear large dogs in the house might knock her down which just isnt amenable to her health (yes I live in the same house as my mother and I take care of her.)

I have had some scarey calls, I though do my utmost to present a strong confidant figure, I walk in a bold manner and I keep a strong attitude when goin anywhere.

I am not that big though I'm 5'5'' and petitely built, I want at least some protection when I go into town, as I live in the country I do my grocery shopping in town (Vancouver WA) and I just do NOT want to be in a situation where I would have needed a gun even though I hope to God I never ever have to use one.

I'm a realist, when I go into town, I go alone, I drive alone, I have nobody to go with.

I just need a more concealeable pistol than the one I have, another thing I seriously want is a kerambit knife, to me the kerambit is a woman's best friend, as it is very hard to dislodge from a womans hand due the the little ring.

I do my best to be aware of my surroundings, all the time, I do my utmost to be cautious, when I approach my car, I keep my keys in my hand downward 'just in case' and I hit the door lock button before I get to the car but also while I have a clear view of my car and the parking lot. One thing I DO have is very good eyesight, poor hearing but excellent eyesight it helps me a lot.

I hope to God you never have to either!! It sounds like you are pretty darned aware which I think is half the battle. You are right big dogs are not always a great answer, it worked for me in Chicago and I needed them. I also learned little things that I have had to use, like if someone is following you in a car, simply drive to the police station... they go away in a hurry.

Perhaps years of working with violence has opened my eyes. Somehow sitting with a rape victim who's face is not even recognizable changes you, and I absolutely see why people get guns. I see why women get guns.
If someone was going to rape me I really would have no problem blowing his face off. HOWEVER as in my previous post, there is a good chance that the only way I could shoot him in the face would be aim for his feet, and if I am really really lucky I will hit him in the face.

When I worked for the Police I learned a lot. They taught me that a dog was the number one deterrent.

Keep walking tall and stay safe

[cowgirl]

[/size][/font]



If I may add to it. If your firearm is pulling up, you are potentially "limp wristing" it. Make sure your wrist is LOCKED. Many times, if you spend the day at the range, you become tired or simply complacent, and you start letting your wrist relax. With lighter weight firearms, you'll also note failure to feed problems when you limp wrist.





Thats exactly what I do.... I am SUCH a girl! My wrist always used to hurt after shooting.

[cowgirl]

PS: nene, I have at one time been confronted in a parking lot by a huge black man aggressively peddling 'candy' he had a little child in tow with him, this guy towered over me and was nothing but muscles.

How the heck do I 'maniplulate' the eyes fingers joints etc?? when the guy literally towers over ya?
This does not requre fingers eyes and joints... it requires your knee cap coming into sharp contact with his balls. :nutkick:

[TheRealLobo]

Thats exactly what I do.... I am SUCH a girl! My wrist always used to hurt after shooting.
Hey...I know big guys that it happens to.

It's like anything else.

Think golf for a moment, and all the things you have to think about before making a golf shot. Same with bowling, dart throwing, hitting a baseball, throwing a football, driving a car, whatever. You need to set it up, step-by-step. Over time, you'll get the muscle memory going.

IMPORTANT NOTE!!!


Someone wanted me to point out:

If you suddenly switch firearms in the middle of a gun battle, you can be screwed over by muscle memory. It has happened to cops when they switch from a revolver to an SA (or vice versa).

[Wolfcounsel]

"How the heck do I 'maniplulate' the eyes fingers joints etc?? when the guy literally towers over ya?" --Rink


Sometimes hitting a guy in the testicles will not deter him, especially if his adrenalin is pumping to get at you. Do try to put him somewhat at a disadvantage over you anyway that you can. A distracting move (use your imagination) will place his intent a little off. Then proceed to administer some type of sharp pain on his body. And finally, if you can, before you run for your life, just merely slap his balls, like you are swatting a fly on your forehead. A powerful kick may freeze his pain reaction long enough for him to pounce on you and do some severe damage. A light tap will still cause him to take maybe three or four steps toward you, but then the PAIN will register, heh heh. The best method of practicing these things is with a heavily padded "volunteer", like I was when I was teaching our kids to defend themselves.

[cowgirl]

"Sometimes hitting a guy in the testicles will not deter him, especially if his adrenalin is pumping to get at you. Do try to put him somewhat at an advantage over you anyway that you can. A distracting move (use your imagination) will place his intent a little off. Then proceed to administer some type of sharp pain on his body. And finally, if you can, before you run for your life, just merely slap his balls, like you are swatting a fly on your forehead. A powerful kick may freeze his pain reaction long enough for him to pounce on you and do some severe damage. A light tap will still cause him to take maybe three or four steps toward you, but then the PAIN will register, heh heh. The best method of practicing these things is with a heavily padded "volunteer", like I was when I was teaching our kids to defend themselves.
Thank You Wolfcounsel on the finer points of testicular assault. It is most important that we understand the nuances of exactly how those things work. With out the personal experience we need input from those who have been battered in the balls for technical instruction. We have your children to thank as well for participating in the trials.
Good info, I would love to say I can't wait to try it out :D but I probably would prefer not to!!

[Wolfcounsel]

"Good info, I would love to say I can't wait to try it out :D but I probably would prefer not to!!" --cowgirl


Me too. I would prefer you don't try it out on me.:cool: OWWOOO CHIHUAHUA!<!-- / message -->

[Rink]

slapping the balls is one thing but the best way to ensure the perp isnt gonna persue ya is a good swift cut from a knife in the tender regions, as if that is dont the perp is gonna be more interested in protecting himself and nursing his hurt than bother you.

(I still need to get me a freakin Kerambit)

[Peachdiane]

Dogs are fine but what if they shoot the dogs? Nasty thought but you gotta be prepared.

I've used a gun in self defense and I had the same thoughts as you but training really helps allay the fears....and hanging out with other female shooters.

Rink, I haven't tried out the gun you mentioned. But I'm kinda partial to this Ruger SP101 already as it fits my hands!

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger_SP101/Thumbs/MVC-002F.jpg

[Wolfcounsel]

"(I still need to get me a freakin Kerambit)" --Rink

I had a coupe of kerambits made in the Philippines for my nieces to carry around for protection. They also use them to peel potatoes. They are excellent weapons, and they WILL put a perp into the hurt locker.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Keith J]

The P7 is a pretty old design but its still very advanced. One feature is the gas-retarded blowback operation which makes loading easier in such a light pistol. Most 9x19's are recoil operated and as such, are bulky because both the barrel and slid are moving parts. Pure blowback pistols are compact but they have to be heavy in 9x19 and the recoil springs are stout. The gas retarded operation makes a blowback pistol in 9x19 possible. But it also makes it impossible to hold after two full magazines as the gas heats the fram something bad. Bad choice for high volume gunfights but that is fantasy, not reality.

The other good feature is the hammerless squeeze cocking mechanism. The pistol is a single action by all accounts but it "decocks" once firm grip on the pistol is released. This can have implications for weak-handed use, fatigued hands and high stressed situations. Be sure to practice with it more than normal single action pistols.

The pistol will NOT fire unless the grip is firmly squeezed, something almost impossible for normal children under the age of 9. Now a corn-fed nine year old Iowa farmboy who plows the fields on the farm could probably function it but he probably knows how to use it safely.

They are expensive. I would recommend a Kel Tec if price is a problem. Great service, made in Florida and reliable.

[Rink]

What KIND of Kel-Tec would you reccomend, as i am open to reccomendations.

I was more accurate with the Ruger P-95
But again I didnt get it because one, the gun shop i went to didnt have it and two I wasnt too sure of the looseness of the slide.

I wasnt alltogether that familiar with Rugers to know whether that was a good thing or not.

O and wolfie got any links to where i can find a decent kerambit?

[cowgirl]

Dogs are fine but what if they shoot the dogs? Nasty thought but you gotta be prepared.

I've used a gun in self defense and I had the same thoughts as you but training really helps allay the fears....and hanging out with other female shooters.


I had two dogs, you have to be amazing to take both of them out.
You know when I really understood just how scary those dogs were? We had a snow storm and I LOVE to go skijoring, hook up the dogs like sled dogs and throw the cross country skis on. So off we went at 1am and I went into a park so we could get some speed going and we turned a corner and there were 6 gang guys smoking crack.. They were scared out of their mind, they asked if the dogs bite to which I responded "only when I tell them to" You have never seen crack heads disperse so quickly. The fun part was that the dogs started to run after them and I was still hooked up to the dogs... YEE HAA was the ride of my life! Now there is simply no way a gun can be that fun.

[Wolfcounsel]

"O and wolfie got any links to where i can find a decent kerambit?" --Rink


Try Spyderco. Normally I would recommend the Philippine model, but that is fixed blade. It might not go over well in some places here.

http://www.knifeoutlet.com/shop/10expand.asp?productcode=spyc84p

[Rink]

Personally I like the fixed blade myself.

Gimme the philipine models Perty please? :D

[Wolfcounsel]

"Gimme the philipine models Perty please? :D" --Rink


I'll try to get some more made and sent here.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Rink]

Made? I thought ya had pics or somethin????

no need to go to that expense for me Wolfie really, I just thought ya had pics or somethin.

[Keith J]

What KIND of Kel-Tec would you reccomend, as i am open to reccomendations.

I was more accurate with the Ruger P-95
But again I didnt get it because one, the gun shop i went to didnt have it and two I wasnt too sure of the looseness of the slide.

I wasnt alltogether that familiar with Rugers to know whether that was a good thing or not.

O and wolfie got any links to where i can find a decent kerambit?
P11 if you want 9x19. Make sure you get the 8.5 pound spring. All new ones have it, its the older ones with the 10 pounder which makes the trigger pull a bit rough.

If .40 S&W is your fancy, get the P40.

Practice with at least two boxes of ammo and they will become very reliable. Out of the box, they can be a bit rough on the sliding surfaces.

[TheRealLobo]

P11 if you want 9x19. Make sure you get the 8.5 pound spring. All new ones have it, its the older ones with the 10 pounder which makes the trigger pull a bit rough.

If .40 S&W is your fancy, get the P40.

Practice with at least two boxes of ammo and they will become very reliable. Out of the box, they can be a bit rough on the sliding surfaces.
Mrs Lobo has a lot of fun with her P32 believe it or not. To be honest, the thing that made her want it was that it comes with a beltclip. :)

(FWIW at anything greater than 3 or 4 yards, I can't hit JACK with it though)

[Rink]

"Gimme the philipine models Perty please? :D" --Rink


I'll try to get some more made and sent here.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->hey Wolfie is this what they look like to some extent?? *drools*

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cc/Kerambit_knife_and_sheath.JPG

[Wolfcounsel]

They look a little like Freddy Krueger's claws.:cool:

[Rink]

Kewl!

[LadyHawk108]

That blade reminds me of my Ladyhawk. It's from the Masters of Defense Series, made by a woman for women. Warlady has one too and I know she's just as fond of hers!


http://www.discountcutlery.net/media/MD-403.jpg

[Rink]

I want one with the hole in the back for the finger, that way I can switch blade positions without worrying I'll loose it. :)

But that aint a bad knife either

[TheRealLobo]

I'm curious as to what some of the gun enthusiasts here have to say about this lil pistol, it seems to be a very good concealed-carry pistol for size and speed seems to not be a problem also in the use of it as well for self defence purposes.

What do you think? I have two links here to peruse.

http://the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/HK-P7-M8-MED-nam.jpg

The Heckler and Koch P7 M8 9mm (http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product950.html)


then this link: Heckler - Koch PSP P7 P7M8 P7M13 P7M10 pistols (Germany) (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg52-e.htm)

I just wonder what others who shoot more pistols than I do and may have possibly shot this pistol have to say about it, whether its a good pistol to invest in or not.

I know its pricey but if its worth the money I'll save up for it.
A buddy of mine (another gun enthusiast) has recommended it as an EXTREMELY fine weapon. They had some problems when they tried to chamber it in .40, he doesn't remember the details about what they did with the .40 (proto-type, never in production, full production or whatever). He did state that when drawing it from a holster, you don't want to grab it like you would any other weapon. If you squeeze the grip, it is ready to rock and roll.

Special note that I didn't see on the website above...You don't want to run lead rounds through it as the lead could clog the gas system.

[Sir Knight]

Get a S&W compact auto ...

http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f53.jpg

... they come in .45ACP (top), .40S&W (middle) and 9mm (bottom).