Please don't shoot into the air...it could be bad

[TheRealLobo]

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There are some folks that think a bullet falling to the ground after being shot straight into the air cannot harm anyone.

I'd like to post some facts, and clarify.


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<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Faithful_Servant


UL - Terminal velocity on a .45 round subtantially lower than muzzle velocity. It might hurt, but it's not gonna do much harm.


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Depends on your definition of "much harm".

A study performed by the U.S. Army in 1920 showed:

<SMALL>Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Based on the results of these tests it was concluded that the bullet return velocity was about 300 f.p.s. For the 150 gr. bullet this corresponds to an energy of 30 foot pounds. Earlier the Army had determined that, on the average, it required 60 foot pounds of energy to produce a disabling wound. Based on this information, a falling 150 gr. service bullet would not be lethal, although it could produce a serious wound." </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<SMALL>From here:http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/March01.htm</SMALL>
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<SMALL>For a discussion on bullet teminal velocities, go here:</SMALL>
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<SMALL>http://perpetualbeta.com/woifm/archive/002290.html</SMALL>
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<SMALL>Terminal velocity is approached when the drag equals the weight of the falling object, with the complication that the air density increases as the object descends. In practice, this means that an object is typically *slowing* ever so slightly just before impact.

The key equations are

W = g * m

(weight is proportional to mass)

D = Cd * A * rho * v^2 /2

(drag is proportional to the air density and velocity squared, times the frontal area, times
the shape-dependent drag coefficient)

Solving for v,

v =sqrt( 2 * m * g /(Cd * A * rho))

Let's assume the bullet is made of lead, and loses its spin and falls sideways for maximum drag (this will give the most conservative result, and neatly removes the length of the bullet from consideration)

Caliber Energy Velocity
(inch) (J) (ft/s)
.22 4 130 (M-16, etc)
.3 16 150 (AK-47 etc)
.45 83 185 (M1911 etc)

The .22 would hurt like hell and raise a lump on your skull. The larger rounds could kill you, and every year, some do. </SMALL>

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<SMALL>So much for Urban Legend.</SMALL>
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<SMALL>Just for fun, for bullet weights, you can go here:</SMALL>
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<SMALL>http://www.nationalbullet.com/5-3.html</SMALL>
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[Keith J]

Unless you shoot straight up, most bullets have considerable terminal velocity. The only exception would be small birdshot (#6 or smaller). Even so, #9 birdshot can take out an eye; wear good glasses with full side shields (ANSI Z87 rated)

[TheRealLobo]

Unless you shoot straight up, most bullets have considerable terminal velocity. The only exception would be small birdshot (#6 or smaller). Even so, #9 birdshot can take out an eye; wear good glasses with full side shields (ANSI Z87 rated)
Even shooting STRAIGHT up, if the round doesn't come down base first or tumbling, I expect it can do some serious harm if it's a heavy enough round.

[Faithful_Servant]

Sorry, I guess my idea of much harm was in comparison to the damage that would occur at muzzle velocity vs. terminal velocity. I humbly submit to the experts.

[Wolfcounsel]

Only dumbasses shoot real ammunition up into the sky for no reason.

[uncommon1]

Only dumbasses shoot real ammunition up into the sky for no reason.
You mean like camel jockeys at celebrations?

[Wolfcounsel]

"You mean like camel jockeys at celebrations?" --uncommon1


Especially like those dumbasses.

[TheRealLobo]

Sorry, I guess my idea of much harm was in comparison to the damage that would occur at muzzle velocity vs. terminal velocity. I humbly submit to the experts.
No problem, I wasn't trying to insult you or anything, but it needs to be widely known that the "warning shot" idea could be a bad thing.

[TheRealLobo]

You mean like camel jockeys at celebrations?
Well for the record, I'd like the terrorist celebrants to continue to believe that shooting into the air is harmless.:D

[Rink]

Dont forget the Mexican illegals also like to shoot up in the air, the mexican illegals have a tendency to do it a lot in LA and other places in California.

Does cause problems and does get innocent people hurt.

[Faithful_Servant]

No problem, I wasn't trying to insult you or anything, but it needs to be widely known that the "warning shot" idea could be a bad thing.Not a problem. I was working off the idea of comparing a .45 round to a hailstone about 1" across. The hailstone would have a lower terminal velocity, but greater mass. I've been tagged by hailstones this size and it hurt, but no real damage beyond some bruises and sore spots.
Warning shots are nice, romantic notions better left to episodes of Gunsmoke. In the real world, the warning shot is the one in the center of the chest, warning the target that they're about to get shot again.

[BEST45CAL]

"I told my friend next to me, 'Why did you punch me?' He said he didn't punch me. Then we saw the blood, and he pulled the bullet out of my arm."
http://starbulletin.com/98/01/02/news/story3.html


Around midnight, Miami officers usually take cover under bridge overpasses or in buildings to protect themselves from falling bullets.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/7602681.htm?1c


With bullets falling over this Caribbean island, Jessica wouldn't see 2004. At 8:30 p.m., the 10-year-old was struck in the back of the head outside the Quintana Gardens housing complex in the Hato Rey section of San Juan by a round that lodged in her brain.
http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/puertorico/all-gunfire0118,0,812086.story?coll=all-newspuertorico-hed

[Rink]

hadda register for the miami herald, didnt give true name and only gave my hotmail addy, and didnt give my true address either, they can stuff that information where the sun dont shine.
I so hate it when ya hafta register to get any news anymore.

But i did read the story.

O BTW the first name I did give em was nolie, last name was noshit. and address was wormhole. I'm so evil :D

[BEST45CAL]

hadda register for the miami herald, didnt give true name and only gave my hotmail addy, and didnt give my true address either, they can stuff that information where the sun dont shine.
I so hate it when ya hafta register to get any news anymore.

But i did read the story.

O BTW the first name I did give em was nolie, last name was noshit. and address was wormhole. I'm so evil :D
LOL

It's weird that you had to register because I Googled all of those stories and went directly to the pages.

[TheRealLobo]

When I took my gun basic class.. we were given specific situations and asked how we would react. One lady said well she only wanted to learn to shoot so she could fire her gun up in the air or something to scare away the perp if ever she had too.

The instructor told her she really should reconsider learning. But since she paid her money for the class and refused to take it back and take his advice he had to teach her. Sigh. Should be laws.... she still insisted at the end of the class that she could never use it for real.

Sighhhhhhh....If you are not going to use it when needed, don't bother carrying.