Bob Jones to Bush: You owe the liberals nothing.

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

November 3, 2004

President George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

Dear Mr. President:

The media tells us that you have received the largest number of popular votes of any president in America's history. Congratulations!

In your re-election, God has graciously granted America—though she doesn't deserve it—a reprieve from the agenda of paganism. You have been given a mandate. We the people expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet. Because you seek the Lord daily, we who know the Lord will follow that kind of voice eagerly.

Don't equivocate. Put your agenda on the front burner and let it boil. You owe the liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ. Honor the Lord, and He will honor you.


I encourage you to read the rest at www.bju.edu/letter (http://www.bju.edu/letter)

[Warlady]

Good letter. I pray he heeds the advice. It's true, Bush owes liberals nothing but his scorn.

[Patriot Heart]

Thomas are you homeschoolers by chance? We have used Bob Jones University Curricula for many years now. I hope we can aford for our daughter to go to their college or one similar. They are unwavering and stalwart in their beliefs and standards.
Patriot Heart

[LifeConsumesMe]

Good ole' Bob Jones University, where the Unbridled Racism and Hatred of Yesterday Meets the Students of Today.

[DoctorDoom]

Another liberalooney chants the "hatred" rhetoric. Kid, there IS hatred in the country, and it's on YOUR side of the political fence. "Those mean, nasty conservatives disagree with my noble, perceptive, brilliant plans for them and the country. How I loathe them for being so HATEFUL!"

Go away, child, and leave the discussions to the grownups.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Good ole' Bob Jones University, where the Unbridled Racism and Hatred of Yesterday Meets the Students of Today." --LifeConfusesMe


This is not Dumbasses Underground, Life.

[kate]

Good ole' Bob Jones University, where the Unbridled Racism and Hatred of Yesterday Meets the Students of Today.
Are you sure Life doesn't consume your braincells by any chance? Or is it the Liberalism that does this to you?

[Warlady]

You're being consumed alright. By a huge case of the dumbass.

[tacitus]

Good ole' Bob Jones University, where the Unbridled Racism and Hatred of Yesterday Meets the Students of Today.
Unlike the hatred found in today's universities against Christians and Conservatives, which is fine by your standards.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

I am normally a calm, patient poster. On ocassion, however, I do get riled up.

LifeConsumesMe .... SHUT UP!

Changing gears,

Patriot Heart, we also use some Bob Jones materials, and have for several years. Great curricula! I pray much success for your homeschool year!
Many Blessings,
Hms

[DeclinetoState]

Good ole' Bob Jones University, where the Unbridled Racism and Hatred of Yesterday Meets the Students of Today.
Are you back, Yukon?

[DoctorDoom]

Nah, this isn't Yukie. He's just another clueless high school kid.

[Samcat]

Good ole' Bob Jones University, where the Unbridled Racism and Hatred of Yesterday Meets the Students of Today.
Yep and we can always rely on bigots like you to set these people straight, right?

[Samcat]

You're being consumed alright. By a huge case of the dumbass.
Warlady, liberal bigots are the most intolerant bigots of all.

[LifeConsumesMe]

Are you back, Yukon?

haha, naw, just wanted to irritate you folks one last time before i head out to the phillippines for a bit.

enjoy Bush

[Rink]

Hey LifeConsumesMe, you drop a troll turd to irritate the conservatives here on this board.

Have you not read the Board rules troll?

[tacitus]

haha, naw, just wanted to irritate you folks one last time before i head out to the phillippines for a bit.

enjoy Bush
Enjoy the PI. Bye :wave:

[CzechPrince]

You can't deny Bob Jones University is...well, how do I put it, just as intolerant as let's say UC Berkley? Sure the letter might be a good one, but have you honestly read what they say on their site? But I find it more offensive than you all since I'm Catholic and I actally have read what they say on their site about not only my religion, but others as well.

[Patriot Heart]

Well Czech, I know that in the past BJU has had some policies I did not agree with, concerning race. Those policies have been changed over the years. As for their stand on Catholicism, I have no issue with Catholics, I grew up in Wisconsin surrounded by them and wished I was one! (I was raised Presbyterian). However, many fundamentalists and evangelicals do have issues. I took a quick look at the website and didn't see anything anti Catholic. Without wanting to start any sort of fruitless argument I would venture to guess that a conservative Catholic would have similar issues with Protestants. I knew from childhood that Catholics believed that you had to be this or that or do this thing or that in order to get to heaven. Now maybe those things have changed too, I don't know as I know live in Baptist country. However like I said, I do not have huge issues personally, if a person believes in Jesus and try to follow His teachings that is good enough for me. I wonder if any of those "Opus Dei" schools I have read about would accept a Protestant student with open arms.
PH

[Longhorn_Platinum]

Are you back, Yukon?
:rolleyes:

[DoctorDoom]

You can't deny Bob Jones University is...well, how do I put it, just as intolerant as let's say UC Berkley?I can't? Why not? Is that liberal freedom of speech in action again?

BTW, to compare BJU with UC Berserkley is to demand that you not be taken seriously.

Sure the letter might be a good one, but have you honestly read what they say on their site?Yep, I have. And?

But I find it more offensive than you all since I'm Catholic...Kid, I've read a lot of what you post, and the things that you support, and your claim to being Catholic is at best questionable. Your deviation from RCC doctrine and teachings is profound.

... and I actally have read what they say on their site about not only my religion, but others as well.Religion is the bane of Christianity.

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

You can't deny Bob Jones University is...well, how do I put it, just as intolerant as let's say UC Berkley?
BJU, a private religious university, has a strict code of conduct and those who do not wish to follow the code need not apply. They make that very clear.

Berkeley, on the other hand, is filled with elitists who claim to be the most tolerant, open-minded people on Earth. However, they treat the republicans on campus like scum. There are protests held every week at the school. You won't find such activities at BJU.

By the way, Bob Jones University is only six miles away from where I live. I've gone to the world-famous art gallery there, and the people who take care of it are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet.

[Timberwolf]

haha, naw, just wanted to irritate you folks one last time before i head out to the phillippines for a bit.

enjoy BushI always have, do presently and always will enjoy bush...

[CzechPrince]

I can't? Why not? Is that liberal freedom of speech in action again?My point is both colleges are absurd, one is the extreme liberal and one is the extreme conservative, I don't respect either of them.

BTW, to compare BJU with UC Berserkley is to demand that you not be taken seriously. The fact that you cannot see how both extremes are wrong in different ways is somthing not to be taken seriously.

Yep, I have. And?Well, someone like you doesn't care if you offend someone as long as it is not you or your beliefs.

Kid, I've read a lot of what you post, and the things that you support, and your claim to being Catholic is at best questionable. Your deviation from RCC doctrine and teachings is profound.Like what? I am against abortion in all trimesters unless the women's life is in danger or she was raped. I don't deviate from anything, what is profound? The only thing you can say is about Gay marriage, and since I beleive in the US Constitution and the Implied separation of church and state, I don't have a problem with civil unions, it's not my business, but I don't want to get off topic here, we both know our stances.

[CzechPrince]

BJU, a private religious university, has a strict code of conduct and those who do not wish to follow the code need not apply. They make that very clear.I never said they had to do anything, they are a private school they can do whatever the heck the want to do, that still does not change their religious fanaticism and intolerance of anyone who is not a hardcore fundementalist baptist/Christian.

Berkeley, on the other hand, is filled with elitists who claim to be the most tolerant, open-minded people on Earth. However, they treat the republicans on campus like scum. There are protests held every week at the school. You won't find such activities at BJU.I agree with you about Berkeley, they're idiots. But guess what you'll find on Good ol Bob Jones University!

"the paganism of Roman Catholicism. The result is an appalling scene of ecumenical unity, a merging of pagan Rome with New Evangelicalism--the final dress rehearsal of Babylon, the Church of the Antichrist."

LOL I guess my family are pagans and we are part of Babylon! Bull****.

"If I were a Roman Catholic it would most certainly be by the "accident" of birth and not by conversion"

Woops, my mom converted to Catholicism from Southern Baptist, I would encourage anyone who wants to know what those churches in the deep south did to talk to her and find out why she left.

http://www.bju.edu/resources/church_planting/37areas#neworleansla

Oh this is nice: A webpage devoted to converting not just non-christians, but other christians into the Southern Baptist Church, lovely.


http://www.bju.edu/resources/faith/1975/issue4/bible.html

[That's a Catholic Bible in the new pulpit."
"I know Marshall."

"You do!"

"Yes, I was informed of the situation Monday."

"Pastor, I'm truly sorry. The mail-order company sent the wrong Bible. I shouldn't have put it in there, but I didn't want everyone to think that I was a fool who couldn't even buy a Bible."

"I'm sure the Lord will forgive you, Marshall. And you're certainly not a fool."]

Forgive him for using a Catholic bible? I mean these people obviously associate that with a Satanic one.
The funny thing is the apocrypha was in the original canon at the Synod of Hippo in 393 AD, so the person who wrote that article, is once again, wrong concerning Catholic doctrine. There are countless other things, I doubt there is even a Catholic group on campus, university would probably not alllow it.


By the way, Bob Jones University is only six miles away from where I live. I've gone to the world-famous art gallery there, and the people who take care of it are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet.Yeah they're nice....except they think your going to hell!

[Longhorn_Platinum]

Oh this is nice: A webpage devoted to converting not just non-christians, but other christians into the Southern Baptist Church, lovely.
:unsmile: So? I'm no longer a Southern Baptist, but I see nothing wrong with them trying to convince others to join their affiliation. In the United States, it's their right to do so. If you have a problem with the Baptists, don't join. They're not pointing a gun to anybody's head.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

Yeah they're nice....except they think your going to hell!
:unsmile: And, that's another thing I have a problem with. So what if they think some people are going to Hell? Jesus thought some people were going to Hell, too. (See St. Matthew 7:22-23.) The same Jesus your Catholic Church believes in. Does that mean that Jesus HATED those people? Not at all. He was on a mission to save every last one of them. He even went through a brutal crucifixion for them. He wouldn't have done all that, if He hadn't believed that people were going to Hell. So, tell me again, what's wrong with thinking that others are going to Hell?

[CzechPrince]

:unsmile: So? I'm no longer a Southern Baptist, but I see nothing wrong with them trying to convince others to join their affiliation. In the United States, it's their right to do so. If you have a problem with the Baptists, don't join. They're not pointing a gun to anybody's head.
I am not saying they don't have the RIGHT to do it, as you said, this is America and can do whatever they want, but you don't find that unethical, especially where there are places all over the world where Christ is not even mentioned among the people? Why are they not concentrating their efforts to Non Christians?

[CzechPrince]

:unsmile: And, that's another thing I have a problem with. So what if they think some people are going to Hell? Jesus thought some people were going to Hell, too. (See St. Matthew 7:22-23.) The same Jesus your Catholic Church believes in. Does that mean that Jesus HATED those people? Not at all. He was on a mission to save every last one of them. He even went through a brutal crucifixion for them. He wouldn't have done all that, if He hadn't believed that people were going to Hell. So, tell me again, what's wrong with thinking that others are going to Hell?Number one, they are not Christ. Christ can think whatever he darn well pleases, he is the Son of God, the people at Bob Jones University are not Christ. Number two, who are they to say who is going to hell, especially attacking other Christian religions? These people are trying to save the wrong people, they don't need to go after people who already are Christians.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

...you don't find that unethical, especially where there are places all over the world where Christ is not even mentioned among the people?:unsmile: Maybe a case of misplaced priorities, but what's "unethical" about it? Why does it bother you so much? I can think of more important things to bellyache about.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

Number one, they are not Christ. Christ can think whatever he darn well pleases, he is the Son of God,...
:unsmile: And we are to be like Him. And if we are Christians, then we, too, are sons of God.

...the people at Bob Jones University are not Christ.
:unsmile: Your point here would be what?

Number two, who are they to say who is going to hell, especially attacking other Christian religions? These people are trying to save the wrong people, they don't need to go after people who already are Christians.
:unsmile: I agree with you about attacking other Christian "religions", but I have no problem with them thinking whatever they want about others going to Hell. If they told me I was going to Hell, it wouldn't bother me, because I know they're wrong. So, why does it bother you so much?

[Rink]

My point is both colleges are absurd, one is the extreme liberal and one is the extreme conservative, I don't respect either of them.

The fact that you cannot see how both extremes are wrong in different ways is somthing not to be taken seriously.

Well, someone like you doesn't care if you offend someone as long as it is not you or your beliefs.

Like what? I am against abortion in all trimesters unless the women's life is in danger or she was raped. I don't deviate from anything, what is profound? The only thing you can say is about Gay marriage, and since I beleive in the US Constitution and the Implied separation of church and state, I don't have a problem with civil unions, it's not my business, but I don't want to get off topic here, we both know our stances.one thing, to be a Roman Catholic you should be against ANY and ALL abortions irregardless.

For you to say you're against abortion in all trimesters unless

Makes you a dang fool! and a CINO (Catholic In Name Only) a liberal who wishes to pick and chose what 'morality' suits your fancy.

You dont adhere to RCC teachings, or you wouldnt even say the excepted unless...

Also the RCC is adamantly against Gay marriage in any and all aspects of it.

Best get back to your Catechism boy.

[Beowulf]

Hey, Life, no Lib Fouling! If you must, pick it up and take it with you before you leave.

[CzechPrince]

one thing, to be a Roman Catholic you should be against ANY and ALL abortions irregardless.

For you to say you're against abortion in all trimesters unless

Makes you a dang fool! and a CINO (Catholic In Name Only) a liberal who wishes to pick and chose what 'morality' suits your fancy.

You dont adhere to RCC teachings, or you wouldnt even say the excepted unless...

Also the RCC is adamantly against Gay marriage in any and all aspects of it.

Best get back to your Catechism boy.
Rink you have more people to worry about that than with me. I have been to ANTI ABORTION protests!! Are you telling me you would force a woman to have a baby if she was going to die? I mean I am against it in all other cases except that, but that rarely happens, so there is no reason to have abortion so availiable like we have now, It's barbaric, inhumane, UNLAWFULL, and goes against what Locke called the, "Right to Life" of all human beings.

I personally am not for gay marriage, but if 2 people want to get a civil union, by the STATE, it is not my business, I could care less. 50% of marriages in this country end in divorce anyway, so I say give the gays a shot.

[CzechPrince]

:unsmile: Maybe a case of misplaced priorities, but what's "unethical" about it? Why does it bother you so much? I can think of more important things to bellyache about.
We have Arab fanatical Muslims attacking us, our nation is at war. Christians need to come togethar, not try and convert each other. Fanatical Muslims are uniting against us, and we Christians need to do the same or it will be our downfall. My dad has already told me in my lifetime, probably later, I might have to give my life for Christ, and he wished more people of my age realized this, scary, but true.

[CzechPrince]

:unsmile: And we are to be like Him. And if we are Christians, then we, too, are sons of God.

We can try to immitate him and do what he would do, but we are not Christ, we cannot be what he was/is....we have no authority in determining where somoene or a group of people are going after they die.





:unsmile: Your point here would be what?

Meaning they are in no position to say who is going to heaven or hell, or wherever, and they have no business attacking any religion, especially a Christian one, and lying about it to top it all off.


:unsmile: I agree with you about attacking other Christian "religions", but I have no problem with them thinking whatever they want about others going to Hell. If they told me I was going to Hell, it wouldn't bother me, because I know they're wrong. So, why does it bother you so much?
Because as I said Christians need to come togethar and stop bickering, accusing one group of going to hell, etc. It bothers me becasue they're hypocrites, and shouldn't be judging others. They give Christians a bad name as well, that is probably what bugs me the most. I mean if you go to Europe and talk to people there they associate American Protestantism with these type of people, and it should not be that way, it's a huge joke to Europeans.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

Are you telling me you would force a woman to have a baby if she was going to die? I mean I am against it in all other cases except that,...
:unsmile: How odd. That's not what you said earliër...

I am against abortion in all trimesters unless the women's life is in danger or she was raped.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

We can try to immitate him and do what he would do,...


:unsmile: Okay, well, if He said people were going to Hell, then we should, too. After all, that's what Christ did.


...but we are not Christ, we cannot be what he was/is....we have no authority in determining where somoene or a group of people are going after they die.


:unsmile: Why not? He did it, so what's wrong with it? You know, you're contradicting yourself. First, you say we should "immitate" him, but then, you say we shouldn't.



Meaning they are in no position to say who is going to heaven or hell, or wherever, and they have no business attacking any religion, especially a Christian one, and lying about it to top it all off.


:unsmile: Who put you in a position to say what they're not in a position to do? Are you God? Maybe they're right, & if they are, they'd be remiss in not warning others that are going to Hell. And what are they lying about?


Because as I said Christians need to come togethar and stop bickering,...


:unsmile: True.


It bothers me becasue they're hypocrites, and shouldn't be judging others.


:unsmile: A hypocrite says one thing, then does another. Where do you see the people at BJU, or the Southern Baptists, saying one thing, then doing another? Specifics, please. And how are they "judging"? Stating that somebody is going to Hell isn't "judging".


They give Christians a bad name as well, that is probably what bugs me the most. I mean if you go to Europe and talk to people there they associate American Protestantism with these type of people, and it should not be that way, it's a huge joke to Europeans.


:unsmile: So what, if the Europeäns associate American Christians with Protestant Fundamentalists? Do you think that your brand of Christianity is superior, & the one that American Christians should be associated with? Maybe the BJUers & the Baptists would be embarassed if Europeäns associated American Christians with Catholics. Sounds to me as if you're bickering just as much as you say they are.

[CzechPrince]

:unsmile: How odd. That's not what you said earliër...




Okay, but that's what I meant. But usually abortion is not needed if a woman is raped, she can just can take the pill.

[DoctorDoom]

Smorgasbord time...

My point is both colleges are absurd, one is the extreme liberal and one is the extreme conservative, I don't respect either of them.Your personal opinions have no impact on anything beyond you, nor do mine. Your view of extremism does not parallel mine.

The fact that you cannot see how both extremes are wrong in different ways is somthing not to be taken seriously.Clue time, child.

• BJU is a private university. BJU's viewpoints are therefore not financed by anyone except those who attend and those who support it.
• UCB is largely funded by the taxpayers of California. Its extremism is therefore underwritten by people who are adamantly opposed to it, against their wishes.

To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
--Thomas Jefferson

Well, someone like you doesn't care if you offend someone as long as it is not you or your beliefs.Little boy, this "I'm offended!" crap has been a libleft staple for years. Every time some arsehole decides he doesn't like something, he whines, "I'm offended!" and people trip over each other trying to appease the moron. If you think that the possibility that some leftist or atheist will be offended by what I write in any way guides my writing, think again. I don't care if they're offended. The truth is is always offensive to those who live lies.

Like what? I am against abortion in all trimesters unless the women's life is in danger...Which is exceedingly rare. The overwhelming majority of abortions are for convenience, and a fifth of them are the second or more. No partial-birth abortion has ever been done to save the mother's life.

... or she was raped.And the baby should be executed because?

I don't deviate from anything, what is profound?Try that again in English.

The only thing you can say is about Gay marriage...The concept is utterly repugnant.

... and since I beleive in the US Constitution and the Implied separation of church and state...If you believe in it so strongly, learn what it actually says, not what is "implied" by God-loathing liberals.

I don't have a problem with civil unions...I do, because it legitimizes a perversion.

... it's not my business...The degradation of America's morality should be every citizen's "business".

... but I don't want to get off topic here, we both know our stances.I know what mine are, but thusfar yours are of the same consistency as sKerry's.

<hr>
I never said they had to do anything, they are a private school they can do whatever the heck the want to do, that still does not change their religious fanaticism and intolerance of anyone who is not a hardcore fundementalist baptist/Christian.If your taxes aren't supporting it, and they're not banging on your door for contributions, what's your beef? And BTW, you'd be amazed at how "intolerant" biblical Christianity is of false religions and worldliness.

I agree with you about Berkeley, they're idiots. But guess what you'll find on Good ol Bob Jones University!The difference, explained above, is that Berkeley is publicly funded, ergo it's using tax monies to finance its hate-God, hate-America, hate-Israel, hate-Bush extremism. And you might want to find some examples of BJU students doing things that are equivalent to UCB students being arseholes to people who don't subscribe their to ultraleftist politics.

"the paganism of Roman Catholicism. The result is an appalling scene of ecumenical unity, a merging of pagan Rome with New Evangelicalism--the final dress rehearsal of Babylon, the Church of the Antichrist."

LOL I guess my family are pagans and we are part of Babylon! Bull****.It would seem so. How familiar you are with the "ecumenical unity" that is kissing up to non-Christian if not outright pagan religions?

Oh this is nice: A webpage devoted to converting not just non-christians, but other christians into the Southern Baptist Church, lovely.Why is that evil?

That's a Catholic Bible in the new pulpit."
"I know Marshall."
"You do!"
blahblahblahTitle: The Biggest Bible
Author: Artemus Morgan
Year: 1975, Vol. 3 Num. 4

Almost 30 years old and not exactly a theology discourse. You're scratching hardpan for arguments, kid.

Forgive him for using a Catholic bible? I mean these people obviously associate that with a Satanic one.Would you care to tell us what the reaction would be to finding a King James Bible in the pulpit at your church? Describe for us the RCC position on non-Catholic Bibles.

The funny thing is the apocrypha was in the original canon at the Synod of Hippo in 393 AD, so the person who wrote that article, is once again, wrong concerning Catholic doctrine.The Apocrypha were rejected as non-inspired and non-canonical. They are included because the RCC doctrines of purgatory and praying for the dead rely on them.

There are countless other things, I doubt there is even a Catholic group on campus, university would probably not alllow it.It's extremely unlikely that there are Catholic students at BJU. IAC, how many Protestant groups would you find at a Catholic university?

Yeah they're nice....except they think your going to hell!Most people are.

Matt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

<hr>
I am not saying they don't have the RIGHT to do it, as you said, this is America and can do whatever they want, but you don't find that unethical, especially where there are places all over the world where Christ is not even mentioned among the people? Why are they not concentrating their efforts to Non Christians?For one thing, many if not most "Christians" are unsaved pew-warmers. The mainline churches have all but abandoned the Bible. If you want to see uneasy or confused people, go into the local mainline churches and ask the pastors, "When was the last salvation in your church?"

Kid, did YOU ever accept Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior? Are you born again (John 3:3,7)? If not, then you can sit in your church's pews 24/7 and wind up in hell.

<hr>
Number one, they are not Christ.But they have the teachings of Christ.

Christ can think whatever he darn well pleases, he is the Son of God...You have a very flippant attitude toward the Son of God.

...the people at Bob Jones University are not Christ.But they are commanded to be Christ-like.

Number two, who are they to say who is going to hell...They don't have the final say on it, but trees are known by their fruits.

Matt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

...especially attacking other Christian religions?Religions are the curse of Christianity.

These people are trying to save the wrong people, they don't need to go after people who already are Christians.But they DO need to get to those who deceive themselves that they are Christians because they play church. Going to a church no more makes one a Christian than being a frequent flyer makes one a pilot.

<hr>
Rink you have more people to worry about that than with me. I have been to ANTI ABORTION protests!!Many pro-abs do that, to heckle and attack the pro-lifers. We know where you stand by the term "ANTI ABORTION".

Are you telling me you would force a woman to have a baby if she was going to die? I mean I am against it in all other cases except that, but that rarely happens...Very rarely. Modern medical technology has essentially eliminated it.

... so there is no reason to have abortion so availiable like we have now, It's barbaric, inhumane, UNLAWFULL, and goes against what Locke called the, "Right to Life" of all human beings.This may be a first. I agree with that.

I personally am not for gay marriage, but...That's the classic liberal cop-out: "I'm not in favor of ( insert evil here ), BUT..." For example, "I personally am not for killing abortionists, BUT..."

... if 2 people want to get a civil union, by the STATE, it is not my business, I could care less.I'm glad to see that you do care. There's hope.

50% of marriages in this country end in divorce anyway, so I say give the gays a shot.Even were that statistic true, it does not justify legitimizing a sexual abnormality. And BTW, they're not "gay". There is nothing "gay" about a perverse, hopeless, lust-driven, and medically disastrous "lifestyle". They're queer.

<hr>
We have Arab fanatical Muslims attacking us, our nation is at war.Yep, we do and we are.

Christians need to come togethar, not try and convert each other.If the thing that separates them is distortion or rejection of the Bible, then compromise is out of the question.

Fanatical Muslims are uniting against us...Yep, they are.

... and we Christians need to do the same or it will be our downfall.The only basis on which this can take place is a return to the Biblical principles of Christianity. I will NOT compromise with churches that put queers in the pulpits, support abortion, or embrace worldly ideas for the sake of being popular.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

My dad has already told me in my lifetime, probably later, I might have to give my life for Christ, and he wished more people of my age realized this, scary, but true.That time is fast approaching.

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

It's already happening around the world. When it comes to America, the vast majority of "Christians" will turn their backs on the Lord Whom they profess to serve. Believers here have been isolated from the harsh reality of dying for their beliefs. In far too many cases, their "faith" is in their heads, not their hearts. When the choice must be made, they will choose to save their lives and condemn themselves in eternity.

Matt 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Be ready. It's coming.

<hr>
We can try to immitate him and do what he would do, but we are not Christ, we cannot be what he was/is....we have no authority in determining where somoene or a group of people are going after they die.No, we have no say in it, but we have the ability to judge whether or not a person is saved, and the command to attempt to reach the person with the Gospel if s/he is not saved. And that includes pew-warmers.

Meaning they are in no position to say who is going to heaven or hell, or wherever, and they have no business attacking any religion, especially a Christian one, and lying about it to top it all off.If the "Christian" religion is unscriptural and/or worldly, it needs to be attacked. Far too many churches are recruiting offices for hell.

Because as I said Christians need to come togethar and stop bickering, accusing one group of going to hell, etc.And as I said, it depends on what must be compromised to achieve the "unity".

It bothers me becasue they're hypocrites, and shouldn't be judging others.So you believe that apostate churches should not be talen to task for leading their congregations down the wide, smooth road to damnation?

They give Christians a bad name as well, that is probably what bugs me the most.Christians who live by Biblical precepts will ALWAYS have a "bad name" in the world, because they don't compromise with sin and evil for the sake of "tolerance" and "sensitivity".

I mean if you go to Europe and talk to people there they associate American Protestantism with these type of people, and it should not be that way...The opinions of the hell-bound heathens in Europe count for nothing. Europe abandoned Christianity decades ago. In doing so, it rejected God's protection and opened itself to the moral and spiritual collapse that is obvious to even the most casual observor.

Europe has nothing whatever to recommend it. It is in fact assembling the revived Roman Empire of last-days prophecy. It's opinions on American Christianity are therefore irrelevant.

...it's a huge joke to Europeans.Europe itself is the huge joke, but it's not at all amusing.

[Warlady]

I don't have anything against Catholics but I do think that Priests fondling little boys is a little EXTREME. BJU does not have such a reputation.

[CzechPrince]

I don't have anything against Catholics but I do think that Priests fondling little boys is a little EXTREME. BJU does not have such a reputation.
I agree, and so does every other Catholic, trust me, but the fact is it's less than 2% of priests who have done this. These men are NOT REAL PRIESTS, and are giving the other 98% good ones a bad name.

[ConservativeYouthMovement]

The policies of BJU do seem a little intolerant of non baptists and a little racist, especially towards 99% catholic hispanics. This isnt a whole lot different from similar catholic schools, so there are people on both sides that do the same thing.

Also, ROMAN Catholicism obviously has its own pagan ties, such as the correspondence of holidays with pagan ones (although all other christain religions do have this) and in most countries, roman festivals (in countries such as spain and spanish offshoot countries.)

So to say that catholicism has no pagan history just isnt true, but who ever said that a little roman influence was bad?

BTW, I'm not a christian, I just believe in God but not Jesus. I dont believe in organized religion either. I know ill take flak for saying that, but I just wanted to let you know im not biased towards either side, but i used to be catholic. (The sermons were so boring i became and aetheist because i didnt understand, but i saw the light.)

[CzechPrince]

Smorgasbord time...

Your personal opinions have no impact on anything beyond you, nor do mine. Your view of extremism does not parallel mine.That's true.


• BJU is a private university. BJU's viewpoints are therefore not financed by anyone except those who attend and those who support it.
• UCB is largely funded by the taxpayers of California. Its extremism is therefore underwritten by people who are adamantly opposed to it, against their wishes.I understand there is a difference between the schools: I know BJU is private and Berkely is not. My point is the additudes there parallel each other, just opposite extreme viewpoints.

Little boy, this "I'm offended!" crap has been a libleft staple for years. Every time some arsehole decides he doesn't like something, he whines, "I'm offended!" and people trip over each other trying to appease the moron. If you think that the possibility that some leftist or atheist will be offended by what I write in any way guides my writing, think again. I don't care if they're offended. The truth is is always offensive to those who live lies.Do you not get offended at all? You don't get offended when the ACLU does somthing you don't like, etc? I know you have, can, and will at some point. Everyone can get offended, and I get pissed off because they are spreading lies about my religion, you would not appreciate if if it happened to you either. I am not whining the least bit, just making a statement.

Which is exceedingly rare. The overwhelming majority of abortions are for convenience, and a fifth of them are the second or more. No partial-birth abortion has ever been done to save the mother's life.I agree, that is why I am against it unless the mother's life is in danger, or rape, but I don't know how many abortions have been done for rape since they women can get a rape package at the hospital which includes the pill in it.

And the baby should be executed because?I've read some places that actually having the baby helps the recoverey for a woman being raped, as it is a positive thing to come out of it or somthing to that effect. I just don't think I can force a woman to have a baby if she was raped, but as I said, I might change my opinion on that if I knew actually if there was a NEED for an abortion becasue of rape.



The concept is utterly repugnant.

If you believe in it so strongly, learn what it actually says, not what is "implied" by God-loathing liberals.To you its repugnant, I don't see it that way. I've had to read the constitution more than once for school, there is an IMPLIED separation of church and state, the phrase does not actually exsist.



The degradation of America's morality should be every citizen's "business".Your morals are not the same as everyone elses, including mine. We all have morals

I know what mine are, but thusfar yours are of the same consistency as sKerry's.How so? I didn't vote for him, I voted for Bush. Becasue I don't care if 2 gay people want to have a civil union? That is all you can get me on?





If your taxes aren't supporting it, and they're not banging on your door for contributions, what's your beef? And BTW, you'd be amazed at how "intolerant" biblical Christianity is of false religions and worldliness.I just don't appreciate misinformation, that's all. Could you explain the second part, about biblical Christianity and what you beleive about it?



It would seem so. How familiar you are with the "ecumenical unity" that is kissing up to non-Christian if not outright pagan religions? I'm sorry but I am not a pagan and niether are other Roman Catholics who worship Christ only.

Why is that evil?Did not say it was evil, just unethical.


Would you care to tell us what the reaction would be to finding a King James Bible in the pulpit at your church? Describe for us the RCC position on non-Catholic Bibles.We don't beleive KJV bibles as fully complete. But if we had to use one for one Mass, I don't think my priests would poop themselves over it, but I suppose your right.

The Apocrypha were rejected as non-inspired and non-canonical. They are included because the RCC doctrines of purgatory and praying for the dead rely on them. The Protestant Reformers rejected them, the fact is I have given the list on here numerous times of the FIRST Cannonized bible that was made official at the Synod of Hippo in 393 AD that included the Apocrypha--that is why they are in there, it had nothing to do with the Counter Reformation. Martin Luther translated them, somthing I was not aware of until recently, but King James did not include them in his version.

It's extremely unlikely that there are Catholic students at BJU. IAC, how many Protestant groups would you find at a Catholic university?I am sure there are some, especially at larger universities like Notre Dame and Catholic Univ, espeically since you DONT have to be Catholic to go there.






For one thing, many if not most "Christians" are unsaved pew-warmers. The mainline churches have all but abandoned the Bible. If you want to see uneasy or confused people, go into the local mainline churches and ask the pastors, "When was the last salvation in your church?"I don't follow, could you explain what you mean here?

Kid, did YOU ever accept Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior? Are you born again (John 3:3,7)? If not, then you can sit in your church's pews 24/7 and wind up in hell. I have always accepted and beleived Christ was my Lord and the Son of God. Born Again? Well, we don't interpret it the way you do: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." So yes, I have been, I was baptized, and the Early church fathers reffered to John Chapter 3:5 as ***nothing**other than baptism.





But they have the teachings of Christ. Are they Christ? Yes or No? No.


You have a very flippant attitude toward the Son of God.Excuse me? What is that supposed to mean?

But they are commanded to be Christ-like.They do not have the right to pass judgement on others.


Religions are the curse of Christianity.Uhhh...if you say so.

But they DO need to get to those who deceive themselves that they are Christians because they play church. Going to a church no more makes one a Christian than being a frequent flyer makes one a pilot.Who says those people are right?

Many pro-abs do that, to heckle and attack the pro-lifers. We know where you stand by the term "ANTI ABORTION". Uhh haha I don't think so. I am strongly against abortion, if I were for it, I would tell you. I went with my Catholic Church to a protest about 2 years ago (I actually missed school with my mom in order to particpate in it) and protested with everyone. I was a junior in high school, and it meant a lot to me. You have a lot of nerve accusing me of going up there heckling pro life people, when I am one.

Very rarely. Modern medical technology has essentially eliminated it.

This may be a first. I agree with that.

That's the classic liberal cop-out: "I'm not in favor of ( insert evil here ), BUT..." For example, "I personally am not for killing abortionists, BUT..."No, it's not my place or yours if 2 people want a civil union, it is not going to affect my marriage or yours. And I am not a liberal by any means, I tend to be more liberal socially but economically I would wager I am much more conservative than you, we should talk about that sometime, I don't know your views on economics, I'd be interested to hear.


Even were that statistic true, it does not justify legitimizing a sexual abnormality. And BTW, they're not "gay". There is nothing "gay" about a perverse, hopeless, lust-driven, and medically disastrous "lifestyle". They're queer.http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html

My point is homosexuals are not the cause of people divorcing, and why would they be if they were allowed a civil union?





One other thing, do you think the Catholic Church and specific other churches are attacked unnecessarily at times and for certain things, or do you always agree with it? I know you agree with most of Roman Catholic moral issues, do you respect it? Do you think it is a Christian religion, or that every Roman Catholic is doomed to hell? Ive never asked you this but I would be interested to hear your view on it.

[CzechPrince]

BTW, I'm not a christian, I just believe in God but not Jesus. I dont believe in organized religion either. I know ill take flak for saying that, but I just wanted to let you know im not biased towards either side, but i used to be catholic. (The sermons were so boring i became and aetheist because i didnt understand, but i saw the light.)
Hmmm...where do you live and how long were your homolies? Ours are not long at all, but I know with some old priests they can be.

[ConservativeYouthMovement]

They were only an hour and some, then we all ate breakfast in the church basements. I thought it was ok till they kicked out the priest that was good and replaced him with someone crappy.

The sermons were boring because i couldnt relate to what the priests said and the new priest only made matters worse by being somebody with a boring personality.

I live in South Dakota, in the western part and it was one of the smaller catholic churches, never went to the bigger ones because they dont have air conditioning.

I havent gone to any church for about 7 years though so maybe i should give it a try again, I'd like to learn about none extremist islam too, sounds interesting.

[Patriot Heart]

CYM please think long and hard before joining ANY Muslim group...............never forget the LEADER of Islam was a murderer and pedophile....a far cry from the Leader of Judaism or Christianity.......these points are not opinion, but are FACT..........do some research PLEASE.
PH in OK

[CzechPrince]

One of my Beat friends is Muslim, but he is NOT ARAB, he is Bosnian, and he HATES Arabs, so that is why my parents allowed me to go to an Islamic service with him, it was fun, and he came to Mass with me. He's a great guy, hates BinLaden, hates Saddam, and just about every other Arab nation lol.

[DoctorDoom]

Just one response is merited.

Do you not get offended at all? You don't get offended when the ACLU does somthing you don't like, etc? I know you have, can, and will at some point. Everyone can get offended, and I get pissed off because they are spreading lies about my religion, you would not appreciate if if it happened to you either. I am not whining the least bit, just making a statement.Of course I'm offended by the repugnant idiocy of the libleft. The difference is that I don't whine about it and demand that whatever offends me must be prohibited. There is no Constitutional right to be sheltered from being offended.

Ergo, the heathen bastards who wail about being "offended" by a Decalogue on a couthouse lawn or a cross in a town symbol are shamelessly manipulating America's tendency to cater to obnoxious idiots with a gripe. They should be told exactly what they tell Christians who complain about blasphemous "art" being funded by taxpayers: "If you don't like it, don't look at it."

I don't care if I offend liberals and heathens. Let them write their grievances in triplicate and mail them to me, and I will deal with them appropriately when seated on the porcelain facility.

[DoctorDoom]

One of my Beat friends is Muslim, but he is NOT ARAB, he is Bosnian, and he HATES Arabs, so that is why my parents allowed me to go to an Islamic service with him, it was fun, and he came to Mass with me. He's a great guy, hates BinLaden, hates Saddam, and just about every other Arab nation lol.The issue is not what your Muslim friend is like, but what Islam is like. It is antithetical to Christianity. It specifically rejects the divinity of Christ Jesus, and it calls Christians hell-bound idolators. In fact, your friend is clearly violating the directives of the Koran.

005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

[Apollo5600]

Your morals are not the same as everyone elses, including mine. We all have moralsNo, some have morals and others do not.

I just don't appreciate misinformation, that's all. Could you explain the second part, about biblical Christianity and what you beleive about it?For biblical Christianity try reading the bible.

I'm sorry but I am not a pagan and niether are other Roman Catholics who worship Christ only. Like mother Theresa?

Are they Christ? Yes or No? No.BUT THEY HAVE HIS TEACHINGS. How hard is that for you to understand?

Ezekiel 3
<SUP>18</SUP> When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

They do not have the right to pass judgement on others.Telling the truth is not passing judgement. How many times is it going to take for you to understand?





<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[CzechPrince]

The issue is not what your Muslim friend is like, but what Islam is like. It is antithetical to Christianity. It specifically rejects the divinity of Christ Jesus, and it calls Christians hell-bound idolators. In fact, your friend is clearly violating the directives of the Koran.

005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
The Koran I am sure is no different than any other religious text in the fact that different groups have different interpretations of it. I know his family is very Western and was so even in Europe, he had to come over here as a refugee with his mother and sister when Milosivich had troops slaughter his villiage and his dad died. I am sure that passage to them may mean somthing totally different, and I do recall a passage in there about getting along with Christians, I'll try to find it, but we don't bring up religion in that way. He was never taught to hate anyone who was not Muslim, but he does hate Arabs.

[CzechPrince]

No, some have morals and others do not.

For biblical Christianity try reading the bible.
The question was poised to Doc, I was asking him what he meant by, "Go into a church and ask....etc etc."

Like mother Theresa?
Mother Teresa has never claimed to worship anything other than Jesus Christ. All she said she did was told them to pray to whoever they believe in. Leave it to someone like you to continue to degrade a poor old Catholic woman, much less one that has passed.

BUT THEY HAVE HIS TEACHINGS. How hard is that for you to understand?
If someone steals a teacher's notes in class while the teacher took a bathroom break, does that MAKE HIM THE TEACHER???? NO. So, WE ALL have Christ's teachings, but that does not make us Christ, or even CLOSE to Christ. You harrass Mother Teresa for being supposedly, "Non Christian", yet what you imply is no better, asserting that you have the authority to do what only Christ can.

Ezekiel 3
<SUP>18</SUP> When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Telling the truth is not passing judgement. How many times is it going to take for you to understand?
The Truth? According to who, you? You think you know everything, just becasue you read the bible and worship Christ? I do that too, but the difference is I don't claim to know the absolute truth. The only truth is Christ--not what you beleive or think in your head about Mother Theresa. "judge not, that you be not judged'(Matthew 7.1-2)

[Apollo5600]

Mother Teresa has never claimed to worship anything other than Jesus Christ.She obviously disagrees with Jesus when He said he is the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but through Him. The quotes I read in that thread did not sound like a dear old catholic woman.

If someone steals a teacher's notes in class while the teacher took a bathroom break, does that MAKE HIM THE TEACHER???? Jackass, did we steal Christ's teachings from him? ARE WE SUPPOSED TO CONVERT THE UNSAVED OR NOT YOU FOOL!?

You harrass Mother Teresa for being supposedly, "Non Christian", yet what you imply is no better, asserting that you have the authority to do what only Christ can.Blah blah blah, If Christ says one thing, and she does not believe His word, IT IS A FACT YOU MORON!

The Truth? According to who, you?
According to God

You think you know everything, just becasue you read the bible and worship Christ?
The worship of God, and his teachings are infinintly more important then anything else. Because without knowing his Gospel to us, we would die, and would not worship him.

The only truth is Christ
If he is Truth, then all that he says is truth, and the Truth says Believe on me and be saved! For I only can save you! Not "worship thy own god, pray to whomever you wish, for all is god, all faiths lead to him!"

"judge not, that you be not judged'(Matthew 7.1-2)

That would only be relevent to me, if I were a hypocrite, doing everything that mother Theresa does and condemning it.


"I love all religions. ... If people become better Hindus, better Muslims, better Buddhists by our acts of love, then there is something else growing there."

"All is God--Buddists, Hindus, Christians, etc., all have access to the same God."

"These people are waiting to die. What are you telling them to prepare them for death and eternity? She replied candidly, 'We tell them to pray to their Bhagwan, to their gods.'"

The quotes of Mother Teresa from the thread. When has Jesus agreed with these things? Would he of done the same? Is she doing what Christians are commanded to do?

[Longhorn_Platinum]

If someone steals a teacher's notes in class while the teacher took a bathroom break, does that MAKE HIM THE TEACHER???? NO.
:unsmile: Okay, folks, there you have it. We can't be like Jesus, whle He's taking a dump.

[Apollo5600]

Hahahahahahaha!!!!

[DoctorDoom]

The Koran I am sure is no different than any other religious text in the fact that different groups have different interpretations of it.Your uninformed piffle is becoming tiresome.

Read that verse from the Koran, all three translations of it, and then tell us how it can be "interpreted" to say something other than what it clearly says.

I know his family is very Western and was so even in Europe yada yada...Anecdotal evidence does not define reality. Islam is a hell-spawned religion from the insane mind of the pedophile Mohammed (or Muhammad or however they spell it these days). It was born in violence, it expanded its grip through violence, and it required violence to stop its relentless march.

Look up the history of Islam and stop citing your apostate friend as proof that it isn't evil.

[CzechPrince]

She obviously disagrees with Jesus when He said he is the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but through Him. The quotes I read in that thread did not sound like a dear old catholic woman.
You can take quotes of an 80 year old woman and bash her if you desire, I have better things to do than ponder the salvation of a great Christian woman like Mother Theresa, who will be remembered for quotes like THESE:
http://www.domlife.org/2003/mtchild.jpg
"Keep Jesus close to you, he loves you! Let us pray."

"There are so many religions and each one has its different ways of following God. I follow Christ: Jesus is my God, Jesus is my Spouse, Jesus is my Life, Jesus is my only Love, Jesus is my All in All; Jesus is my Everything."

"I heard the call to give up all and follow Christ into the slums to serve Him among the poorest of the poor. It was an order. I was to leave the convent and help the poor while living among them."

"Keep the joy of loving God in your heart and share this joy with all you meet especially your family. Be holy – let us pray."

"IT IS A POVERTY THAT A CHILD MUST DIE SO THAT YOU MAY LIVE YOUR LIFE THE WAY YOU WISH"



Jackass, did we steal Christ's teachings from him? ARE WE SUPPOSED TO CONVERT THE UNSAVED OR NOT YOU FOOL!?
No, *******, Christ obviously gave the Word of God to us, but once again, are we God? We are not supposed to pass judgement on others, and your defenintion of, "saved" is only people who perscribe to your narrow minded worldview of fundementalism.

Blah blah blah, If Christ says one thing, and she does not believe His word, IT IS A FACT YOU MORON!
Like I said *******, go back and read the quotes I posted, and if you want to continue to degrade a woman who no one in this forum can compare to then be my guest, but that is pathetic.

[CzechPrince]

Look up the history of Islam and stop citing your apostate friend as proof that it isn't evil.Apostate friend? Get a life, is that how you describe people who don't fit your view of Christianity? I'm probably an apostate to you so I could care less what you think about him. EVERY RELIGION has had a crappy past, every single one, as far as I and he are concerned his religion is a totally different one than the 9/11 Hijackers or any other Arab's, but then again I don't know why I am wasting my time with someone who thinks all of evolution is one big hoax only supported by athiests. I think so called Christians who blow up abortion clinics are evil. I think the terrorists, both "Catholic" and "Protestant" in Northern Ireland are evil, that does not mean Christianity is. You are not Muslim, and you certainly are not qualified in Islamic study to make a judgement about non Arabic peaceful ones either. You and I are not experts on Islamic scripture, so it's foolish for you to sit there and cite it and claim you know everything about it. Oh and actually, Islam spread in its early stages for the most part without violence, sure it has had a lot of moments, but so has every religion, nation, people, etc.

[DoctorDoom]

No one is "degrading" Mother Teresa, ignorant child. The issue is whether or not she was saved, and her quotes offer no evidence that she was born again.

Works do NOT earn heaven.

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Gal 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 2:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

<hr>
"There are so many religions and each one has its different ways of following God. I follow Christ: Jesus is my God, Jesus is my Spouse, Jesus is my Life, Jesus is my only Love, Jesus is my All in All; Jesus is my Everything."

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

There are no end of religions, but to the born-again Christian, only ONE faith leads to God: the Christian faith. The above quote cited her personal view, but made clear that in her opinion all views are equally valid. No true Christian would ever say that.

[CzechPrince]

I think we missed somthing: Quotes from Mother Theresa:
"Keep Jesus close to you, he loves you! Let us pray."

"There are so many religions and each one has its different ways of following God. I follow Christ: Jesus is my God, Jesus is my Spouse, Jesus is my Life, Jesus is my only Love, Jesus is my All in All; Jesus is my Everything."

"I heard the call to give up all and follow Christ into the slums to serve Him among the poorest of the poor. It was an order. I was to leave the convent and help the poor while living among them."

"Keep the joy of loving God in your heart and share this joy with all you meet especially your family. Be holy – let us pray."

BORN AGAIN? Listen you hereticial fundy, I am not a child, old geezer. Number two, we as Catholics are born again from Baptism that we recieve as infants to wash away our sins, not some, "I HAVE DENIED CHRIST ALL MY LIFE AND NOW I AM ACCEPTING HIM" Jibber jabber. Mother Theresa did not deny Christ like that, she accepted Christ as her savior and those quotes prove just that. Not everyone denies Christ their whole lives like some people, or you for that matter, however long you did.

[ConservativeYouthMovement]

Its also people like you why i can't stand some christians, telling me what to believe and what not.

Just because people dont believe like you doesnt mean you need to shove it down their throats.

YUSUFALI: As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
PICKTHAL: As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.
SHAKIR: Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe

This is the passage from the koran why I decided to look into it more, its in the second chapter Al Baqara. (the cow)

Let's face it, there were bad christians too.

Stalin was one.
Hitler was one.
The spanish inquisition was carried out in the name of christ.
The crusades had incidence that werent even against the arabs, in the 4th crusade the 'Christains' were so greedy that they sacked constantinople, at that time the center of Greek Orthadox, and handed it over to the Arabs who made it into Istanbul. So even if you believe muslims are bad, you cant deny there are bad christians too.

Did i mention they raped CHRISTIAN women too?

Mohammed received the message from God, the same God that you worship.

I may be incorrect, but is Mohammed not a prophet of Christians as well? Jews too?

Moses was also a killer. As stated multiple times on this site, the commandment says You shall not murder. when literally translated, that means killing CAN BE ok. Otherwise you must be against all war, all progress, all parts of life virtually that have been built by war. Even the fabrics of the United States itself.

It just isnt fair to categorize all people like everyone is evil and that a religion is straight out of hell, because i garauntee there are people who think christianity is straight from hell. That jews are straight from hell, and muslims are too.

Also think about this:
YOU ALL SHARE THE SAME GOD!
The God of Abraham is the God of Jews, Muslims, AND CHRISTIANS.

To deny that you share the same God is to deny the old testament, and you could even go as far as saying you are denying Christ. Christ was the son of God according to you, the God of the Jews, the God of Muslims as well.

You are counter productive to your cause.
People like me will be more inclined to be Muslims, Aetheists, or something else if you dont even try to see any side except your own. Screaming that religions are the devils and everyone not like me is being dammed to hell is ludicrous because every religion is telling me im being dammed to hell. Sounds like hell is a good place if you are all going to heaven.

By The Way: I don't deny Christ, I'm positive he was a great person and all, although I don't believe God can have a son at all. Christ was a prophet, just like Mohammed. I'm not a follower of Islam yet but you are getting me their with your insensitive, closed minded remarks.

[CzechPrince]

Were you addressing me? I am not telling anyone how to beleive, maybe you should go back and re read my posts?

[tacitus]

The policies of BJU do seem a little intolerant of non baptists and a little racist, especially towards 99% catholic hispanics. This isnt a whole lot different from similar catholic schools, so there are people on both sides that do the same thing.

BJU is a private school and accepts whom it pleases. It doesn't have to be PC. I suspect the the vast majority of Catholic schools are also private, and can also accept whom they please.

[Apollo5600]

Stalin was one.
Hitler was one.
The spanish inquisition was carried out in the name of christ.Concerning Hiter:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)
10th October, 1941, midday

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)
14th October, 1941, midday

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity....
"Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....
"...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....
"Christianity <IS>the liar....
"We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52)
Hitler Quotes taken from: http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

Though Hitler ofcourse, was a propogandist. He was not above abusing and manipulating the beliefs of the masses to bring about his agenda. But to accuse him of being Christian is ignorant.

Darwinism and the Nazi Race Holocaust

by Jerry Bergman (http://trueorigins.org/holocaust.asp#Bergman)




<CENTER>© 1999 Answers in Genesis (http://www.answersingenesis.org/)


First published in Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal (http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/256.asp) 13(2):101–111, 1999
All Rights Reserved. [Last Modified: 10 March 2002]</FONT>

</CENTER><!-- end header -->http://trueorigins.org/images/l.gifeading Nazis, and early 1900 influential German biologists, revealed in their writings that Darwin’s theory and publications had a major influence upon Nazi race policies. Hitler believed that the human gene pool could be improved by using selective breeding similar to how farmers breed superior cattle strains. In the formulation of their racial policies, Hitler’s government relied heavily upon Darwinism, especially the elaborations by Spencer and Haeckel. As a result, a central policy of Hitler’s administration was the development and implementation of policies designed to protect the ‘superior race’. This required at the very least preventing the ‘inferior races’ from mixing with those judged superior, in order to reduce contamination of the latter’s gene pool. The ‘superior race’ belief was based on the theory of group inequality within each species, a major presumption and requirement of Darwin’s original ‘survival of the fittest’ theory. This philosophy culminated in the ‘final solution’, the extermination of approximately six million Jews and four million other people who belonged to what German scientists judged as ‘inferior races’.

Introduction

Of the many factors that produced the Nazi holocaust and World War II, one of the most important was Darwin’s notion that evolutionary progress occurs mainly as a result of the elimination of the weak in the struggle for survival. Although it is no easy task to assess the conflicting motives of Hitler and his supporters, Darwinism-inspired eugenics clearly played a critical role. Darwinism justified and encouraged the Nazi views on both race and war. If the Nazi party had fully embraced and consistently acted on the belief that all humans were descendants of Adam and Eve and equal before the creator God, as taught in both the Old Testament and New Testament Scriptures, the holocaust would never have occurred.http://trueorigins.org/holocaust.asp

Blame Bob, Atheiral, Czech and all the rest of the libs that show up from time to time.

The Spanish Inquisition is Czech's fault, seeing as how both are equally "Catholic", atleast by comparison. The heart and soul of Communist Russia was always Athiesm, Christianity suffered greatly there as they do in every communist country.

Now ofcourse there are bad Christians, but they are bad because they infact do not believe in the Fundamentals of the teachings of their God who they claim to worship. IOW, they may claim to be Christian, talking the talk, but they do not walk the walk.

[Apollo5600]

Mohammed received the message from God, the same God that you worship. No, we don't, and he didn't receieve any messages.

I may be incorrect, but is Mohammed not a prophet of Christians as well? Jews too?No, he was just some stooge who got off on killing Christians and Jews, and having sex with little girls.

It just isnt fair to categorize all people like everyone is evil and that a religion is straight out of hell, because i garauntee there are people who think christianity is straight from hell. That jews are straight from hell, and muslims are too.Perhaps you should try reading the Bible and quit ranting like this. Get educated concerning Christ.

You are counter productive to your cause.
People like me will be more inclined to be Muslims, Aetheists, or something else if you dont even try to see any side except your own. I did see your side, I lived in it for a long time, and I rejected it for the truth. Of which you have not read...

By The Way: I don't deny Christ, I'm positive he was a great person and all, although I don't believe God can have a son at all. Christ was a prophet, just like Mohammed. I'm not a follower of Islam yet but you are getting me their with your insensitive, closed minded remarks.

Jesus claimed to be God, therefore if he is not God, then he is a liar. If he is a liar, and you disbelieve him, then you deny him. Mohammad contradicts Him, and rejects Him and all His people

Mohammad converted by force

Jesus is the prince of peace, he did not convert by war, but offered salvation to all those who believe on him. For God so loved the world, he gave His only begotten son. So that any who believe on Him may have eternal life.

The fact that you see Hitler and Stalin as Christians, show how ignorant you are of what the Bible really says. Instead of converting to the muslims and then heading to Afghan to kill americans, try reading the Bible and objectivly deciding for yourself. You may not like what I say, but I am telling you the truth.

Learn first, cast judgement after.

As for closed minded, insensitive remarks. Who here among us considered frigging Hitler as Christian? (Though a bad one ofcourse) Not to mention the majority of the rest you said, generaly fits the discription.

I think I am justified with whatever response I give.

[CzechPrince]

Concerning Hiter:


The Spanish Inquisition is Czech's fault, seeing as how both are equally "Catholic", atleast by comparison. The heart and soul of Communist Russia was always Athiesm, Christianity suffered greatly there as they do in every communist country.
What the hell are you talking about?

[Apollo5600]

What the hell are you talking about?
Blaming you for the frigging inquisition, didn't you read it? lol, just playing anyway, but you do fall into the "not so Catholic" behavior you know.

[CzechPrince]

How do you figure? I am against abortion, and civil unions/gay marriage, it does not have an impact on me or my faith, and it's not my position to force people to adhere to what I beleive in.

[Apollo5600]

How do you figure? I am against abortion, and civil unions/gay marriage, it does not have an impact on me or my faith, and it's not my position to force people to adhere to what I beleive in.Here is the logic behind it:

It is the same Logic CYM was using. Since Hitler believed in Evolution, therefore evolution is wrong, and therefore it must somehow be responsible for it. (Perhaps this goes a step further? But perhaps not, if CYM believed Christianity actually played some sort of role in it! As in "Look at what these Christians do! And in the name of Christ!" As if these actions were somehow inspired by Christ.) Hence blame the evolutionists.

I don't believe the athiest pigs are actually responsible for it though, but evolution and what it means to believe in it, certainly has a hand in much that is wrong in the world. After all, if there is no God, and if we are just evolved pond scum, why can't we do whatever we wish?

Now concerning the inquisition. If I asked a Catholic person what they thought about the inquisition, they would say "it is against our beliefs". Now if I asked one about you, they would say "He is against our beliefs". You are not the violent type though, (and judging from your avatar you are something even scarier!!) but you aren't exactly Catholic...And you aren't actually responsible for the inquisition.. But non-catholic behavior is. See how this works? Now, I brung up you people since I was in a happy mood and felt like irritating the local irritators.

[agnostic]

What a mistake it is to bring up evolution as a primary factor in Hitler's holocaust. By this same logic, belief in God-- even those who believed in the "right" religion (read: Christianity)-- has caused millions of men to imprison, torture, and burn their fellow man. Now, under the evolution/Hitler argument, it is just an unfortunate chain of events. Under the God/Inquistion,etc. scenario however, there is supposedly an infinitely loving, wise, good, and just being behind the belief. Knowing all the while what would be commited in his name, he permitted it to happen anyway. FAR worse than evolution happening to be true and causing people to do bad things with no driving force behind it.

[Black Phoenix]

Actually Checks, I'm kinda shocked. I thought it was the catholics who preach very hard we Baptists are going to hell. We don't take sactions, talk to preists, go to confession and on and on. I read my Bible and as far as I know, Catholics, though wrong in many areas, have enough right to get into heaven, no problem. Read the Baptist plan of salvation some time, it's a whole lot simpler than the Catholic one, hence, why I would say, its your faith that says ours is going to hell.

Issues, particularly concerning the pope and the rest of the power structure, concern Baptists, but no, I don't think I could explain to you why. We are allies now perhaps, but you know good and well there was a time when if anyone so much as had a thought that wasn't pure catholic, he was slaughtered. There's a reason they're called Protestants.

I'm thinking modern Christianity goes about things all the wrong way. We need to emphasize our similarities, not differences. The primary objective is the salvation of souls, not conversion between different denominations, you're right. I would charge churches with common messages of salvation to meet and determine how to get along, so as to act as one. The divided church was not God's intention.

On abortion, I'll say this every time. No abortion after rape, if it is human, we have to treat it as such, not a tumor. If the mother's life is at stake, we need to choose based on the circumstances presenting themselves to us, not predispositions to the child or mother. Just like conjoined twins that must be separated, but one will die if they are. When you have to choose between lives, it's never easy, it should not be made easy, it must be decided carefully, not based on strange values such as, the mother is always more important than the child. (Such has never been what Christians (Catholic, Protestant or Baptist) believe, sometimes even the opposite.)


I don't have anything against Catholics but I do think that Priests fondling little boys is a little EXTREME.
Wardly, that's not what they support. If you could talk about the Pope, that might be more credible, as it is believed the priests can be wrong, but the Pope is supposed to be almost never wrong (never wrong?).


I agree, that is why I am against it unless the mother's life is in danger, or rape, but I don't know how many abortions have been done for rape since they women can get a rape package at the hospital which includes the pill in it.

Not many at all. Pill or no.

As far as judgement. To judge is to say, "you're wrong!" I say that to Hitler, is that not right of me? Do you not believe in hell? I myself believe once a man is saved, hell is no longer a question, however, right and wrong still is. Those priests who raped those boys, may very well go to heaven but they will be judged, and should be judged by their fellow men, because their actions were wrong.

What a mistake it is to bring up evolution as a primary factor in Hitler's holocaust.It was not, I agree. His insanity was the primary factor.

By this same logic, belief in God-- even those who believed in the "right" religion (read: Christianity)-- has caused millions of men to imprison, torture, and burn their fellow man. Now, under the evolution/Hitler argument, it is just an unfortunate chain of events. Under the God/Inquistion,etc. scenario however, there is supposedly an infinitely loving, wise, good, and just being behind the belief. Knowing all the while what would be commited in his name, he permitted it to happen anyway. FAR worse than evolution happening to be true and causing people to do bad things with no driving force behind it.
no Christian ever claims God pulls our strings, we make our own choices and this world is cursed. There is an eternity in which the forgiven will be separated from the unforgiven (BTW, not good from bad, Biblically, we're all bad). The innocent, (i.e., children, retarded), will go to heaven forever to be in paradise, the forgiven, including, I believe many Catholics and even those who have fallen away, (though I'm sure God will have choice words for those who left him when the need for Him in the world was so urgent) will go to heaven as well.

It is only the lost we are trying to save.
Confess Jesus is Lord, and that he died for your sins, ask his forgiveness for what you have done and commit your life to his service and you will be saved.

Catholics do these things, hence I do not believe they are hell bound.

The trouble many Christians see with evolution, is there is no way to determine right from wrong. My biology teacher had no problem with telling the entire class that less developed people shouldn't be here, that too many efforts were made to help them, they were just holding us back. I take care of the mentally handicapped, I know how that idea is reasoned out. By evolution, it indeed makes sense. Some are so retarded, they cannot benifit our species at all. It's not raceism, its true. If only nature exists, why can't we start making choices based on the only real laws, the laws of survival of the fitest? No, there is no need to be a cold calculator, or make yourself numb... after all, if you don't want to do that, you don't have to do anything, nothing can be proven to be wrong. Consequences? We all learn as children what to do about consequences. Don't get caught. Other than that, natural consequences aren't determined by right and wrong deeds and we all know it. Two songs make me think, perhaps the secular world does know what we mean. "Breaking the habit tonight (http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/linkinpark/breakingthehabit.html)" and "We Were Meant to Live For so Much More (http://www.lyricsdepot.com/switchfoot/meant-to-live.html)". They want to know there is something definite, they long for something or someone to tell them wrong from right.
<!-- / message -->

[Apollo5600]

What a mistake it is to bring up evolution as a primary factor in Hitler's holocaust. By this same logic, belief in God-- even those who believed in the "right" religion (read: Christianity)-- has caused millions of men to imprison, torture, and burn their fellow man.Actually no. Evolution is an atheistic product, trying to explain away your existence and do away with God. Hence, doing away with absolute authority, absolute right and wrong. Pretty much, "freeing" you (well, actually, in slaving you to sin) to do whatever the hell it is you want. Whatever so-called moral system an atheist may claim to follow means exactly **** to anyone with a brain. After all, if you are just born, live through out your life, and then die, then there is no point to follow anybody's rules except for your own. (And those rules, honestly, are quite flexible)

Christianity on the other hand, by the Book, tells of a loving God who gave His only begotten Son, so that any who believe on Him may have eternal life, and be forgiven of their sins. Christ teaches of responsibility for actions, cause and effect, and commands His believers to go out and preach the Gospel so that the people may hear and believe in Him, and repent and be Baptized in His name. Commanding His people to Love him above all, next to love our neighbors as ourselves, never to steal or murder, or to commit adultery, and to love our enemies, doing good to them which persecute us.

On the other hand, we have a Godless thing, which teaches not one thing good, and leaves it up to it's believers to do what they wish. And encourages that which is wrong.

Under the God/Inquistion,etc. scenario however, there is supposedly an infinitely loving, wise, good, and just being behind the belief. Knowing all the while what would be commited in his name, he permitted it to happen anyway.If you had used your brain for a few seconds longer, you would know that man corrupts all things that are given to him. But despite that, Christ has changed the world, and far for the better. What good thing has evolution or atheism done? When all it teaches is that there is no point to live other then to produce more little bastards? What other then moral darkness has come from those things?

<!-- / message -->

[Black Phoenix]

Actually no. Evolution is an atheistic product, trying to explain away your existance and do away with God. Hence, doing away with absolute authority, absolute right and wrong. Pretty much, "freeing" you (well, actually, inslaving you to sin) to do whatever the hell it is you want. Whatever so-called moral system an athiest may claim to follow means exactly **** to anyone with a brain. After all, if you are just born, live through out your life, and then die, then there is no point to follow anybody's rules except for your own.

did you read the songs, many athiests may realize something is wrong, they need to be lead, not screamed at.

Christianity on the other hand, by the Book, tells of a loving God who gave His only begotten Son, so that any who believe on Him may have eternal life, and be forgiven of their sins. Christ teaches of responsibility for actions, cause and effect, and commands His believers to go out and preach the Gospel so that the people may hear and believe in Him, and repent and be Baptised in His name. Commanding His people to Love him above all, next to love our neighbors as ourselves, never to steal or murder, or to commit adultery, and to love our enemies, doing good to them which persecute us.

Amen.
On the other hand, we have a Godless thing, which teaches not one thing good, and leaves it up to it's believers to do what they wish.

Yep, where do you think the saying, follow your heart, comes from? Not Christianity.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Under the God/Inquistion,etc. scenario however, there is supposedly an infinitely loving, wise, good, and just being behind the belief. Knowing all the while what would be commited in his name, he permitted it to happen anyway. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

If you had used your brain for a few seconds longer, you would know that man corrupts all things that is given him. But dispite that, Christ has changed the world, and far for the better. What good thing has evolution or atheism done? When all it teaches is there there is no point to live? What other then moral darkness has come from those things?
I think he may have honest questions. I'm not afriad to give reasons for the hope that is in me. I'm commanded not to fear questions. Ask away. Does not moral darkness come from unanswered questions about right and wrong? If we know not the reasons from morality, we will more than likely not obey it, correct?

[Apollo5600]

did you read the songs, many athiests may realize something is wrong, they need to be lead, not screamed at.As much as I like insulting atheists, I will agree. But the truth, by nature is strong and blunt, not many like to hear that they are sinners, and one shouldn't suger coat the gospel if they want to convert someone. Oh, and technicly I was not screaming, I was typing on a keybourd at 3.32am in the morning with the O'Reilly Factor on TV.

Does not moral darkness come from unanswered questions about right and wrong? If we know not the reasons from morality, we will more than likely not obey it, correct?If he has questions, they can be answered almost instantly. But I think if he has questions, he has them simply so he won't have to accept the truth. He has been around here for a long time now, I'm not sure if he has learned very much of anything here, or seeks too.

[Apollo5600]

...If we know not...By the way, I notice I have a bad habit of writing like that, makes me think of Yoda speech or something.. Sometimes when I read my posts and I notice that, I say to myself "Man I am like, such a dork." And now it is spreading to you! Save yourself while you can!

Edit: My major problem is that I first write what I have to say down, and then submit it. THEN I check it for problems, and keep reading it, and then seeing all the problems with it and changing it over and over again. If no one is online, I generally get away with it though until I am satisfied with the post.

I am not crazy though, I am not crazy.. I am not crazy.. I'm not crazy..

[Black Phoenix]

I am not crazy though, I am not crazy.. I am not crazy.. I'm not crazy..Too bad, its fun.

[agnostic]

Whatever so-called moral system an atheist may claim to follow means exactly **** to anyone with a brain. After all, if you are just born, live through out your life, and then die, then there is no point to follow anybody's rules except for your own.
So basically the only reason you act the way you do (not running around killing people, etc) is because God tells you not to. And if there was no God, you would run around killing people and doing awful things. Well do you know what that makes you? Immoral. The moral is the CHOSEN, not the obeyed. I act properly without the fear of hell. This makes me more of a moral individual than you, who admittedly acts proper only because you are commanded to do so.

On the other hand, we have a Godless thing, which teaches not one thing good, and leaves it up to it's believers to do what they wish. And encourages that which is wrong.
Yes, Evolution is godless. Just as is geology. And astronomy. And physics. And chemistry. And every other scientific discipline. Science deals with the natural, not the supernatural. It makes no comments on the existence or non-existence of any higher beings. Nor does it teach morals.

If you had used your brain for a few seconds longer, you would know that man corrupts all things that are given to him.
You're missing the point. Say you want to write your friend a letter instructing him to do something, but you know for an absolute fact that your friend would misunderstand your letter, and he would think it gives him express permission to go out and kill innocent people. Would you send that letter anyway, knowing exactly what would result?

What good thing has evolution or atheism done? When all it teaches is that there is no point to live other then to produce more little bastards? What other then moral darkness has come from those things?
The amount of goodness a thing has done has no bearing on its truthfulness. I see now that you are not aimed at discovering the truth.

[Apollo5600]

So basically the only reason you act the way you do (not running around killing people, etc) is because God tells you not to. And if there was no God, you would run around killing people and doing awful things. Well do you know what that makes you? Immoral. The moral is the CHOSEN, not the obeyed. I act properly without the fear of hell. This makes me more of a moral individual than you, who admittedly acts proper only because you are commanded to do so.No, to follow His Commandments is a choice, I don't have any reason to follow them by threat of punishment since I am saved by Grace through faith, not of works. I follow them because I love Him, and have been saved by Him, and because they are Good. However when I do bad, I can't say they are not bad or deny responsibility for them like you can. I know that when I sin that God bore them and suffered for them on the Cross for me, and that I am indeed a wretch that deserves punishment for my own sins. (But that He loved me so much, that He gave himself for me, so I only needed to accept his Gift of salvation to be saved). I can't make my morals relative to the situation like you can, and unlike you I do not lie to myself and say I am not a sinner, nor can I ever sin just because, without trampling on the Cross of Christ as a result.

You on the other hand, owe nothing to anyone, and are "free" to inslave yourself to selfishness, immorality, or anything it is that you wish to fall into. Afterall, you are a pointless creature in a universe with no meaning. There can be no morality without a Holy God above you, knowing the full extent of what even the best of men do.

You're missing the point. Say you want to write your friend a letter instructing him to do something, but you know for an absolute fact that your friend would misunderstand your letter, and he would think it gives him express permission to go out and kill innocent people. Would you send that letter anyway, knowing exactly what would result?Inorder for that to work, you would have to show me where Christ tells us to stop loving our neighbors and to kill infidels instead of converting them, you would have to show me where any of the apostles killed infidels instead of trying to save them and being persecuted for their compassion. (Love thy enemy, do good to them which hurt you and persecute you.) You would have to read the Bible that you condemn, and convince me using the scripture how any of that is allowable to anyone who read the great feats of Love done by Christ for His people.

The amount of goodness a thing has done has no bearing on its truthfulness. I see now that you are not aimed at discovering the truth.You say because you know it has given nothing good to society. The only thing it has done, is allow sinners like you to claim they are Holy! Allowing them to think they will receive no responsibility for their actions. You say that because you are unwilling to seek the truth, and humble yourself as a result.

[CzechPrince]

Here is the logic behind it:

It is the same Logic CYM was using. Since Hitler believed in Evolution, therefore evolution is wrong, and therefore it must somehow be responsible for it. (Perhaps this goes a step further? But perhaps not, if CYM believed Christianity actually played some sort of role in it! As in "Look at what these Christians do! And in the name of Christ!" As if these actions were somehow inspired by Christ.) Hence blame the evolutionists.

I don't believe the athiest pigs are actually responsible for it though, but evolution and what it means to believe in it, certainly has a hand in much that is wrong in the world. After all, if there is no God, and if we are just evolved pond scum, why can't we do whatever we wish?
I beleive in evolution, because God created all things and when you look at nature and animals, why couldn't evolution exsist? I am not saying we were Apes, but I don't see why the first group of human beings were not more primitive than the way we are today, or animals for that matter as well.

Now concerning the inquisition. If I asked a Catholic person what they thought about the inquisition, they would say "it is against our beliefs". Now if I asked one about you, they would say "He is against our beliefs". You are not the violent type though, (and judging from your avatar you are something even scarier!!) but you aren't exactly Catholic...And you aren't actually responsible for the inquisition.. But non-catholic behavior is. See how this works? Now, I brung up you people since I was in a happy mood and felt like irritating the local irritators.[/QUOTE]
Who are you to tell me I am not Catholic? I am. I abide by my church doctrine. You still haven't proved how I'm not, and if all you can pull is civil unions that's absurd, because that has no merit on my faith with Christ, I am not going to shove my religion down someone else's throat.

And by the way, thanks for insulting my pic, but that is not me, it happens to be Ville Valo of my favorite (and the best) band in the world, H.I.M., they are from Finland. He is actually have Hungarian (raised Catholic as well.), I'm sure he is a lot better looking than you are.

[CzechPrince]

Actually Checks, I'm kinda shocked. I thought it was the catholics who preach very hard we Baptists are going to hell. I was ALWAYS taught Protestants have the same salvation as Catholics, even Catholic doctrine will state that. I have not found many Anti-Protestant sites run by Catholics, but there are a ton vice versa. Go to a search engine and type that Catholics are not Christians and a whole slew of lies will come up. It's sick, but sort of funny in a way of how stupid a lot of people are.


We don't take sactions, Sactions? Do you mean sacraments?

talk to preists, go to confession and on and on. Confession is a sacrament, dating back to the days of the early church. We get the teaching from the verse where Christ instructs the apostoles to, "Go and forgive in my name."


I read my Bible and as far as I know, Catholics, though wrong in many areas, have enough right to get into heaven, no problem. Well, we are not the ones who are wrong, it's you, but at least we can agree we are both Christian. I wish people thought more like us.


Read the Baptist plan of salvation some time, it's a whole lot simpler than the Catholic one, hence, why I would say, its your faith that says ours is going to hell. Your right, it is simpler. I was never fond of Protestant justification by faith and the doctrine of, "Once saved, always saved", I mean I think that is just like a get to heaven free pass without having to actually do anything good in this world. I know most are not like that, but heck If I am saved always, no matter what I do, how evil I become, by that logic I can do whatever I damn well please.

I am not saying everyone has to do X amount of work to get to heaven, and niether does the Catholic Church, we just basically say, "If your going to Talk the Talk, Walk the Walk"--act like you are a child of Christ, and show his love in the world. I mean I went to Mexico last year to do mission work, I was there for 10 days, one of the greatest things I have done with my life I think, but that does not compare to what a ton of other Protestants/Catholics are doing ALL OVER the world right now, my point is I felt that I was not doing enough to show my love for Christ, I sin, I am a teenager, and I wanted to do somthing about it.

Issues, particularly concerning the pope and the rest of the power structure, concern Baptists, but no, I don't think I could explain to you why. We are allies now perhaps, but you know good and well there was a time when if anyone so much as had a thought that wasn't pure catholic, he was slaughtered. There's a reason they're called Protestants. Don't kid yourself, Protestant Churches have blood on their hands as well. I suggest you read about how Martin Luther endorsed the Lords in Germany to CRUSH the German Peasant Revolt so he could keep getting their money/funding, or the thousands of Catholics salughtered in England under Henry VIII. The point is no man run institution is perfect, including the Catholic Church.

I'm thinking modern Christianity goes about things all the wrong way. We need to emphasize our similarities, not differences. The primary objective is the salvation of souls, not conversion between different denominations, you're right. I would charge churches with common messages of salvation to meet and determine how to get along, so as to act as one. The divided church was not God's intention.
I couldn't agree more. Church leaders are coming togethar, but it has to start with people like us.

[agnostic]

I am indeed a wretch that deserves punishment for my own sins. ... and unlike you I do not lie to myself and say I am not a sinner...
I'm sorry that you have such a contemptible view of yourself. I am not a wretch, although I am by no means perfect. But you're right, I am not a sinner, because I do not believe that sins exist (how could I believe in a crime against God when I don't believe in God in the first place?). But I do not believe that I am perfect or always do everything the right way. But I am not a "wretch."

" The church teaches that every soul that finds its way to the
shore of this world is against God -- naturally hates God; that the
little dimpled child in the cradle is simply a chunk of depravity.
Everybody against God! It is a libel upon the human race; it is a
libel upon all the men who have worked for wife and child; upon all
mothers who have suffered and labored, wept and worked; upon all
the men who have died for their country; upon all who have fought
for human liberty.

Everybody that comes is against God! Every soul, they think,
is like the wrecked Irishman, who drifted to an unknown island, and
as he climbed the shore saw a man and said to him, "Have you a
Government here?" The man replied "We have." "Well," said he, "I'm
against it!"

The church teaches us that such is the attitude of every soul
in the universe of God. Ought a god to take any credit to himself
for making depraved people? A god that cannot make a soul that is
not totally depraved, I respectfully suggest, should retire from
the business. And if a god has made us, knowing that we are totally
depraved, why should we go to the same being to be 'born again?'"
- Robert Ingersoll

You on the other hand, owe nothing to anyone, and are "free" to inslave yourself to selfishness, immorality, or anything it is that you wish to fall into.
Yea, and guess what...I still don't steal, murder, lie, etc. I would say that makes me a pretty moral person.

You would have to read the Bible that you condemn, and convince me using the scripture how any of that is allowable to anyone who read the great feats of Love done by Christ for His people.
The history of the Christian religion itself is proof that people misunderstood the bible and believed it permitted them to persecute. My point is God allegedly knew this would happen, and didn't write the Bible in a better way to prevent it.

You say because you know it has given nothing good to society
No, I said it because it is TRUE. I wrote, "The amount of goodness a thing has done has no bearing on its truthfulness." Is that not a true statement?

What good has the Solar Nebular Hypothesis given society? Nothing, so it must be false!! That's about how stupid you sound right now.

[Apollo5600]

I beleive in evolution, because God created all things and when you look at nature and animals, why couldn't evolution exsist?
God COULD make evolution work, (without God it can not) seeing as how he can do anything. However, read the timeline from genesis. Pay special attention to when the Sun is made, and when the plants are.

Who are you to tell me I am not Catholic?
You say that so often and it has been responded to so often it is tiresome.

I am. I abide by my church doctrine. You still haven't proved how I'm not,
You don't condemn homosexuality as your church doctrine does. And the "abortion a no-no except if she is raped" is wrong too.

and if all you can pull is civil unions that's absurd, because that has no merit on my faith with Christ I've never pulled civil unions

And by the way, thanks for insulting my pic, but that is not me, it happens to be Ville Valo of my favorite (and the best) band in the world, H.I.M.,
I didn't say it was, but he sure does look faggish. And yourwelcome.


they are from Finland. He is actually have Hungarian (raised Catholic as well.), I'm sure he is a lot better looking than you are.
Well that depends on your PoV, I am clearly more Handsome then he is. But he is obviously more beautiful in a girly way then I am. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[dajoga]

Warlady, liberal bigots are the most intolerant bigots of all.

You got that right--I was just banned from DU after 3-4 posts. But since I didn't attack Christians and 'pubs, I wasn't welcome I guess.

[Apollo5600]

The church teaches us that such is the attitude of every soul
in the universe of God. Ought a god to take any credit to himself
for making depraved people? A god that cannot make a soul that is
not totally depraved, I respectfully suggest, should retire from
the business. And if a god has made us, knowing that we are totally
depraved, why should we go to the same being to be 'born again?'"
- Robert IngersollTechnically, we do have a sinful nature, however it is the act of sinning that sends you to hell, no innocent person can ever be sent there, and no one goes there because they did not choose it.

Now, I knew another heathen such as yourself who spoke much like you did. She would insist on the nickname "angelheart", (what her father called her when she was young.) She would fancy herself the chief of good women, of moral goodness and better then those who she disagreed. She played a good act, would tell people "may the angels watch over you" (She was no Christian, she was into new age stuff, karma, whatever.)

She played the act up pretty good, and for the majority of our time together I was unsaved and her loyal friend. However I never bought into her saintly act, because I had always known her to be a liar. But I never cared, because I was fond of her.

However I did become saved, and seeking to save her I tried to convince her that she was infact less then what she vainly claimed to be (more accurately, the image she tried to create for others to see and to admire). Like you, she said "I am not perfect" (almost like you anyway) "We are all sinners." However she would still say, "But I am a good person!"

I am a sinner, but I am a good person are not statements that match up. And coming from a person who had always held herself up to be righteous and better then others, made it even more absurd. She would say this again and again, but she would never tell me what sins she actually did.

Annoyed I named the most recent of her sins in my mind, she would not admit to them, even when they were irrefutable. Even after I told her "But it's ok! I don't care! I forgive you! I lie too!" And when I told her the only one who is actually good is God, she could not take any more of that conversation.

You see, she was not good, no not truly good, and neither are we. Infact, our sins are quite horrible, we are not good at all. This is a fact, even though she would tell me that everyone was good except for murderers, she knew she was not good either. That is what bothered her, that she was anything less then what she in her vanity, claimed to be.

For the vain (and I am vain) it is hard to accept things like this. To have faith in Christ is to admit that you are not as good as you thought you were, it means that you are wicked and because you rebelled against God, God sent Himself to suffer the most horrible of deaths inorder to rescue you from what you put yourself into. (Because he loved you so, and seeks that all be saved)

So instead of admitting to the truth, they make up something and put their faith into it. If they do away with God, then they can say that they are good, despite all the evidence against them proving to the otherwise. Because what does it matter anyway? It doesn't, and that is why they like it, because they don't want morality to matter. Because if it