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The_RANDy_Corporation
03-10-2001, 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by Yukon1

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OJ Simpson cuts his wife's and her friends throats and walks. A 13 YEAR OLD BOY while playing WWF accidentally kills a 6 year old girl and gets LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE.

This really happened, it happened in the USA. I am shocked beyond belief. Where is the "justice"? Children emulate their idols, accidents happen.

If this boy were the son of a white, middle-class family instead of a black single mother would the results have been the same?

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) — A teen who said he accidentally killed a 6-year-old family friend while imitating pro wrestlers was convicted Thursday of first-degree murder and now faces life in prison without parole.

In three hours of deliberations, the Broward Circuit court jurors accepted the prosecution's contention that 13-year-old Lionel Tate intentionally stomped, punched and kicked Tiffany Eunick, which constituted child abuse.

Under Florida law, the jurors did not have to conclude Lionel meant the girl's July 1999 death to convict him, but only that his actions were intentional and abusive.

Tate faces life without parole, although that could be commuted by the governor after hearing from the prosecutor. The teen does not face the death penalty because he is younger than 16.

Lionel, one of the youngest adult murder defendants in state history, showed no emotion when the verdict was announced, while his mother, Florida Highway Patrol trooper Kathleen Grossett-Tate, lowered her eyes.

A few days after her death, Lionel told police that he picked Tiffany up and accidentally hit her head against a table. He later made a videotape with a court-appointed psychologist where he claimed to have accidentally thrown Tiffany into a stair handrail and a wall while trying to throw her onto a sofa.

In closing arguments Wednesday, prosecutor Ken Padowitz stressed intent to kill was not required for a guilty verdict.

"He didn't have to wake up that morning and say 'I'm going to kill Tiffany Eunick,"' Padowitz said. "All that is required is that he intended to act, not that he intended the result."

But Jim Lewis, Lionel's attorney, said professional wrestling was the central issue in Tiffany's death. He said Lionel is immature and didn't understand that pro wrestlers are trained to look like they beat each other without hurting each other.

"He wanted to emulate them," Lewis said. "Like Batman and Superman, they were his heroes. He loved to play."

The Padre


WarLady1
Owner/ezOP/Moderator
posts: 2447
(3/2/01 1:44:48 pm)
Reply
Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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It's a tragic story but all the facts of the case seem to be missing from this article. Are you suggesting that this incident is somehow related to the OJ Simpson case? He was black you know. Are you also claiming that a 13 year old boy doesn't know right from wrong? To compare the OJ Simpson trial to this story seems a stretch. And, after watching you kiss the Clinton's ass for the few months I've known you how can you have any claim to credibility in criticizing our legal system??????????
**Don't forget to check out our other great forums!!


The Zymurgist
Gold Star Member
posts: 69
(3/2/01 1:49:48 pm)
Reply Whatever Yukon, weren't you banned or something?
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A 13 year old kicks and beats a 6 year old until dead, and Yukon sheds tears for the poor little boy who was only emulating his "heroes."

I have no compassion for this little monster at all. Nor have I any respect for Yukon's opinions.


Rhino
Forum Moderator
posts: 1122
(3/2/01 1:52:33 pm)
Reply
Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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The facts are missing? Who posted this? Ooooooooh, it was Yukon! Well, of course the facts are missing! He wouldn't have any ammunition for a post otherwise.

Hey, Yuck, read your own post! The kid hasn't been sentenced! He only faces the possibility of life in prison. The chance of that happening is pretty much nil. OJ faced the death penalty, but you seem to forget one minor detail. He was proven innocent in a court of law. Are you saying we should sentence him anyway?

Just as an aside, the little girl had several massive injuries that contributed to her death. She was severely beaten to death. We're mad alright. We're mad that something like this could happen.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"If ignorance were truly bliss, this would be one hell of a happy country." - Rhino
http://www.siscom.net/~simdad



Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 355
(3/2/01 1:59:48 pm)
Reply Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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RHINO,

OJ was found innocent in one court and guilty in another. The boy was playing, he had no intention of killing the girl, accidents happen.

I submit that if the boy were white and the son of a middle-class family the case never would have gone to trial. The boy had two strikes against him to begin with. Strike one: he's black. Strike two: mum is single......he never had a chance.

How does a juvenile get tried as an adult? If a 5 year old playing with a gun shot and killed someone wopuld he face the possibility of life in prison? Try thinking with you head and not your emotions.
The Padre


Maggie T
Forum Host
posts: 476
(3/2/01 2:04:08 pm)
Reply
Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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Well, if this is not a case of the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is. Yuckie, you have some nerve.


The WarHawk
New Member
posts: 5
(3/2/01 2:08:05 pm)
Reply A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD
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As opposed to Yukon being "sane"?

Edited by: The WarHawk at: 3/2/01 2:10:00 pm


Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 358
(3/2/01 2:08:30 pm)
Reply Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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MAGGIE,

Are you that callous that you actually believe that if a child causes the death of another child by emulating something he/she has seen on TV that the child should spend the rest of their life in jail? Do you sincerely believe and agree that such punishment is just?
The Padre


Rhino
Forum Moderator
posts: 1125
(3/2/01 2:10:11 pm)
Reply
Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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Boy, you love being wrong don't you? OJ was tried once and acquitted. By law, he can't be tried twice. The lawsuit does not amount to a conviction at all.

The girl was beaten to death. She had several broken bones and massive internal injuries. The head wound is just what finished her off. The coroner stated there was a good chance she would have died even without the head wound. These things may be difficult for you to understand, because you always seem to have trouble grasping the truth.

This went to trial simply because of the extensive injuries and overwhelming evidence of a systematic brutal beating. His color made no difference at all. The brutality of the crime is what prompted the judge to allow him to be tried as an adult. If your theory on race bias was correct, then OJ would have been convicted and executed. You are simply pointing out the flaws in your own thinking.

We don't try kids for accidents, even with guns. This was no accident, and your deliberate avoidance of the facts shows that you are the one not using his head.

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"If ignorance were truly bliss, this would be one hell of a happy country." - Rhino
http://www.siscom.net/~simdad



Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 359
(3/2/01 2:17:54 pm)
Reply Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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RHINO,

With all due respect colour has everything to do with almost every social decision, and many legal decisions in the United States. Simpson was acquitted because of colour and this boy was tried because of colour and convicted because of colour.

I didn't create the race problems in the United States and thank God I don't have to live in such a colour coded society.

Perhaps you should taker a look up north and try and replicate some of our customs when it comes to race relations.
The Padre


Hottjohn
Gold Star Member
posts: 111
(3/2/01 2:24:16 pm)
Reply Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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O.J. was acquitted by a jury of his peers. They were as stupid as he is. The facts haven't changed. The civil wrongful death trial was a slam dunk. This kid in the land of Floridiots kept on hurting the little girl even after she asked him to stop. The evidence presented at trial showed this little innocent 13 yr. old boy just kept on going. It went from role playing to just bullying, to murder. I hate to think that we are that vindictive, but this kid is bad and needs to be put away where he can't harm anyone else.
When in doubt, play dead.


Rhino
Forum Moderator
posts: 1129
(3/2/01 2:25:59 pm)
Reply
Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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I definitely don't want to look north if you're an example of the racism. Your statement about color being involved in almost every social issue merely points out how deep a racist you are. You are in fact obsessed with it, so much so that you actually believe every one else is too. You stated an opinion. You've repeated it several times, even though many facts presented don't match it, and yet you still rely solely on opinion. You ignore facts completly (why should I be surprised?) and resort to emotion laced with insults. You may not live in a color coded society, but you sure have a color coded mind. That's why you can't get away from that racial assumption you have in this case, even when all the facts prove you wrong. You didn't find evidence of racial bias and then complain about it. You assumed a racial bias and searched for a case you thought matched it. Unfortunately for you, you didn't check your facts thoroughly first, as usual.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"If ignorance were truly bliss, this would be one hell of a happy country." - Rhino
http://www.siscom.net/~simdad



TheKellyCrew
Host ConservaMommy
posts: 586
(3/2/01 2:29:15 pm)
Reply
Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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Here Yukon..is an AMERICAN word I would like to introduce you to:

Responsibility n 1: the social force that binds you to your obligations and the courses of action demanded by that force: "we must instill a sense of duty in our children"; "every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity, an obligation; every possession, a duty"- John D.Rockefeller Jr [syn: duty, obligation] 2: the proper sphere or extent of your activities; "it was his province to take care of himself" [syn: province] 3: ability or necessity to answer for or be responsible for one's conduct; "he holds a position of great responsibility"; "young children on a farm are often given responsibilities" [syn: responsibleness] [ant: irresponsibility, irresponsibility

Can you handle it???

-----------------------------------------------------------
To be in your children's memories tomorrow, you have to be in their lives today. -- Unknown


MaximumSam
Gold Star Member
posts: 203
(3/2/01 2:49:23 pm)
Reply Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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You are definitely right, Yukon. In this country, being black is strike one on a three strike system. OJ had the luxury of being a wealthy famous football player, so he lucked out. This kid, however, had no such luxury. Hence, we send a 13 year old to prison for the rest of his life.

"I came here to give a speech on the truth. If the truth is anti-American, then blame the truth, but don't blame me." - Malcolm X


Maggie T
Forum Host
posts: 481
(3/2/01 3:01:22 pm)
Reply
Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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Yuknon, I merely said that it took a lot of nerve to accuse Rhino of thinking with his emotions when it's clear that only YOU do that.

And yes, I think the punishment is just. And if they threw the ones responsible of creating such "heroes" in with the kid, that would make my day!


WarLady1
Owner/ezOP/Moderator
posts: 2454
(3/2/01 3:37:54 pm)
Reply
Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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Only liberals would think getting away with brutal murder a stroke of luck...as opposed to a "travesty" maybe? OJ's lawyers played the race card to get him off. There is no evidence the race card was played in the trial of the 13 year old who looks a lot older if you ask me.
**Don't forget to check out our other great forums!!

Edited by: WarLady1 at: 3/2/01 3:40:19 pm


tacitus c
Forum Host
posts: 1368
(3/2/01 3:46:46 pm)
Reply
Re: Hotbuttons
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The yuckster found the hot button again.

to piss off a conservative.
"No man can establish himself by wickedness,but good men have roots that cannot be dislodged" Proverbs 11:3


WarLady1
Owner/ezOP/Moderator
posts: 2457
(3/2/01 3:49:12 pm)
Reply
Re: Hotbuttons
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Yukon doesn't piss me off. It's HIS ignorance not mine.
**Don't forget to check out our other great forums!!


Venus
I should register!
(3/2/01 4:21:18 pm)
Reply To the posters who said OJ was found innocent....
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The People's Republic of Kalifornia has no factual finding of innocence available. OJ was found not guilty in the criminal court case. That is NOT, repeat NOT, the same thing as being found innocent. Further, he was not found 'guilty' or 'convicted' in the other case. It was a civil case, and OJ was found liable in that case.

You are comparing apples to oranges. A defendant is found 'guilty' or 'not guilty' in a criminal case. A defendant is found 'liable' or 'not liable' in a civil case.


WarLady1
Owner/ezOP/Moderator
posts: 2459
(3/2/01 4:23:35 pm)
Reply
Re: To the posters who said OJ was found innocent....
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Venus, I sure wish you would register. Welcome to the forum!
**Don't forget to check out our other great forums!!


Venus
I should register!
(3/2/01 4:31:01 pm)
Reply Re the little sociopath's pathology
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I think the kid's mother should be in prison for life, and the kid should do at least 10 years in reviewable rehab after serving about 5 years in youth detention/boot camp/age 18, exposed to no outside stimulus----just readin', writin' and 'rithmetic. I support the death penalty, but not for a 13 year-old. It's barbaric.

The_RANDy_Corporation
03-10-2001, 02:07 PM
Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 362
(3/2/01 4:46:43 pm)
Reply Re: Re the little sociopath's pathology
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The boy's mother should be in jail, what's her crime, being a single mother?
The Padre


TheKellyCrew
Host ConservaMommy
posts: 587
(3/2/01 4:56:24 pm)
Reply
His mom.
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More like being an ABSENT mother.
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To be in your children's memories tomorrow, you have to be in their lives today. -- Unknown


Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 367
(3/2/01 5:00:13 pm)
Reply Re: His mom.
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KELLY,

You're a mum. Do you really support what these lunatic vengeful people are saying? I don't think you do, many of your posts have very subtle Liberal content to them, and you are definately a compassionate person.

Once a Liberal, always a Liberal. It's impossible to change your basic political beliefs KELLY.
The Padre


Venus
I should register!
(3/2/01 5:13:37 pm)
Reply To Warlady re registration.....
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Thanks for the invitation. I may or may not stick around here. If you care to know why, please see my lonely posts on the Wyoming Sheriff and the Big Horn County threads, couple others, too. I've not received a single reply about serious matters, just the fun stuff, and I haven't seen much here in reading threads generally that indicates the posters actually take any overt actions about issues important to the rejuvenation of constitutional matters, the Bill of Rights particularly. This isn't intended as a criticism, just an observation.

I'm slowly reaching the conclusion that I may be a bit more of a libertarian-type activist than the inhabitants here. If that's the case, I'll be moving on. If not, I'll register and stick around.

The jury's still out.

At least I haven't been flamed.......yet.



WarLady1
Owner/ezOP/Moderator
posts: 2464
(3/2/01 5:19:12 pm)
Reply
Re: To Warlady re registration.....
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Venus, we have Libertarians here too. Check out the other forums on the board as well.
**Don't forget to check out our other great forums!!


Venus
I should register!
(3/2/01 5:45:21 pm)
Reply To answer Yukon's question
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as to why Mom should be in the hoosegow. It appears to me, based on the news article posted, that the custodial parent is guilty of criminal negligence and contributing to the delinquent act of a minor, for starters. I'm sure I could think of further charges if I knew more details of the case.

This was a miserably unfortunate event, but another deep-pocket foray by the lawyers is certainly not the panacea nor even a band-aid for absence of parental responsibility.


Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 368
(3/2/01 6:00:03 pm)
Reply Re: To answer Yukon's question
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VENUS,

Your response is ludicrous at best. Following your course of logic if a child commits and illegal act than the parent should go to jail. The US doesn't have enough prisons to currently hold those guilty of crimes and you would put more people in jail.

Libertarian, you? I doubt it...........
The Padre


Venus
I should register!
(3/2/01 6:25:31 pm)
Reply For Yukon
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No need to follow the course of logic; the logic is inherent. Yes, parents are responsible for the actions of their offspring. The child has some responsibility for his actions, determinable by his age which is how the child's knowledge of right and wrong are measured, but the child's activities derive from impulse and desire, not 'judgment', as we charge all parents and adults with. As adults, we are immediately responsible for what we are legally assumed to have control over; our children, our vehicle as we drive it, our dog, our property, our decisions, etc..

If you wish for me to continue this discussion with you, please refrain from employing ad hominem argument. You defeat your own position through its usage. Neither my opinion nor reasoning are ludicrous.


TheKellyCrew
Host ConservaMommy
posts: 588
(3/2/01 7:29:58 pm)
Reply
Re: For Yukon
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Yukon..

Yes I am a mother...

I TEACH my children RIGHT from WRONG. They are 2 & 4 and they already understand CONSEQUENCES. They are taught to take RESPONSIBILTY for their actions.

My children will learn to DEFEND themselves...but they will not practice their wrestling moves on the local little girls...or they will deal with CONSEQUENCES. My children (especially in their teenage years) will not be able to FART without my knowledge. I will NOT have latch-key children...

My children will learn to WORK HARD. They will not expect to be "entitled" to "free" anything. I will not condone or enable bad behavior. And I will EXPECT nothing but respect from them for myself and OTHERS.

This is how I TEACH my Children. THIS is how I am in their LIVES. This is why I DO NOT WORK outside of my home.
And IF my children EVER break the LAW...THEY WILL DO THEIR TIME...and PAY THEIR FINE (with their OWN money).

Are getting what I'm getting at, YUKON?

My compassion and LOVE for my children runs deeper than you can comprehend. But this does not mean I do not EXPECT them to be responsible.

A LIBERAL I am not. I have NEVER in my life been further from such. Do not confuse COMPASSION with bleeding heart.

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To be in your children's memories tomorrow, you have to be in their lives today. -- Unknown


Jack Rail
Gold Star Member
posts: 404
(3/2/01 7:59:19 pm)
Reply Another Yukon brain fart
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Once again, Yukon demonstrates an uncanny ability to get to the fat of any issue at all, completely missing the lean.

This kid kicked, stomped and punched someone half his size and age, and Yuke feels sorry for him. Yuke, maybe you'd undergo some serious kicking, stomping and punching and tell us how it feels -- providing you survive?

The little girl didn't. Kicking, and especially stomping, are brutally vicious acts. This kid's a punk who deserves plenty of jail time.


"All that's necessary for liberals to triumph is that good men do nothing."


Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 370
(3/2/01 8:01:28 pm)
Reply Re: Another Yukon brain fart
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JACK,

I never said I felt sorry for him at all. I said that life in prison for a childs mistake is ridiculous and if he were white it wouldnt have happened (the life sentence).
The Padre


Rhino
Forum Moderator
posts: 1135
(3/2/01 8:08:21 pm)
Reply
Re: Another Yukon brain fart
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Once again, it didn't happen. Read your own post. Jack has you pegged. You're deliberately ignoring the facts again and dealing strictly from emotion.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"If ignorance were truly bliss, this would be one hell of a happy country." - Rhino
http://www.siscom.net/~simdad



Jack Rail
Gold Star Member
posts: 406
(3/2/01 8:11:00 pm)
Reply Another Yukon brain fart
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Yeah, Yuke, you didn't say you felt sorry for him in your original post. So tell us now: Do you feel sorry for this little monster or not? I don't expect you to answer.

A "child's mistake," eh? Yuke, how can you utter such gibberish? How does one "mistakenly" stomp someone to death?

Your comments about a white kid getting away with this are beneath contempt. NO kid of ANY race who did this would get away with it, were I on the jury.


"All that's necessary for liberals to triumph is that good men do nothing."


2nd Amendment
Forum Host
posts: 125
(3/2/01 10:30:26 pm)
Reply Re: Another Yukon brain fart
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This is just a half hearted attempt at race baiting. If it weren't for the fact the kid is black Yukon wouldn't have posted it here. THAT is the only place where race was a factor.

Also, Yuk ignores the fact the kid will be up for review in a few short years. He ignores the fact that unless the kid does something atrocious while in a juve facility he will certainly be free by age 20. And most blatantly yuk ignores the fact that a youthful mistake and stomping a young girl to death over a period of what, an hour? are in no way the same thing.

Give this one up to, Yuk. Your race baiting showed only your own racism and your refusal to note the facts in your own cut and paste showed only your own ignorance.

Oh, and Venus, here's you a good Libertarian Forum: network54.com/Hide/Forum/70239 I find hanging around both places to keep me on my toes.
"The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty - and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies."
H.L. Mencken


Rhino
Forum Moderator
posts: 1148
(3/2/01 10:39:21 pm)
Reply
Re: Another Yukon brain fart
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He also ignores the fact that the kid hasn't been sentenced to anything yet. He merely faces the possibility of life in prison. For all we know, the judge will put him on probation or force him to listen to Jesse Ventura speeches.
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"If ignorance were truly bliss, this would be one hell of a happy country." - Rhino
http://www.siscom.net/~simdad



Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 372
(3/2/01 11:57:44 pm)
Reply JUDGE NOT LESS YE BE JUDGED
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KELLY,

Your children are two and four so you've got a long way to go. As a parent myself I caution you not to be too confident, the worrisome years are yet to come. Children have a habit of rebelling and there isn't a darn thing you can do about it but hope that the rebellion can be dealt with in the home.

Many young teenagers go astray and some commit criminal acts. However, as a society we must deal with such acts in a mature, fair, and compassionate manner. We must also bear in mind that even though these young people are physically mature they are still children - inexperienced and mentally immature.

Always remember that there but for the Grace of God goes I.


The Padre


Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 384
(3/3/01 6:37:34 pm)
Reply Re: JUDGE NOT LESS YE BE JUDGED
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If the boy were dating Junior's daughter..would he have been protected by the Secret Service?
The Padre


Rhino
Forum Moderator
posts: 1149
(3/3/01 8:45:41 pm)
Reply
Re: JUDGE NOT LESS YE BE JUDGED
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Dunno. Who's junior?
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"If ignorance were truly bliss, this would be one hell of a happy country." - Rhino
http://www.siscom.net/~simdad



tacitus c
Forum Host
posts: 1386
(3/3/01 11:01:30 pm)
Reply
Re: perverts in Canada win again.
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Take the log out of your own eye before you try to remove the splinter from anothers eye. Sound familiar yuckster???

BARRIE, ON, Feb 8, 2001 (LSN.ca) - A "Youth Conference" for young people between 14-29 to be held Saturday at Georgian College in Barrie will feature a workshop on practicing "safe" sado-masochistic sex. The Barrie Examiner reports that Duncan MacLachlan, executive producer of the Mr. Leatherman
Toronto competition - a major event of the Toronto S&M community - will present the workshop. An ad for the conference on the web page of the AIDS Committee of Simcoe County lists Health Canada and the United Way Young Adult Initiative as sponsors of the event. Other sponsors include the Civic
Renewal Project, Gay and Lesbian Alliance of Simcoe County and Think Clear.
The Examiner reports that it was organized by the AIDS Committee of Simcoe County, the Healthy Communities Coalition and the United Way Young Adult Initiative. AIDS committee spokesperson, Gina Frederick, told the Examiner that the S&M workshop will be open to all registered for the conference
regardless of age. On the subject of S&M she said, "It's a very specialized sexual activity and requires more care and more education. MacLachlan will discuss how to reduce the risks of engaging in that kind of activity."
Joy Webster, of the United Way's Young Adult Initiative, said Wednesday there had been an "overwhelming response" to the conference, but that she'd heard from only one parent thus far who had concerns about that particular workshop.
To express your concerns to the United Way and Health Canada:
info@unitedway.ca
minister@www.hc-sc.gc.ca
To contact the Barrie United Way and Aids Committee:
uwgsc@bconnex.net
acsc@bconnex.net
See the ad listing Health Canada as sponsor:
www.bconnex.net/~acsc/news.html (http://www.bconnex.net/~acsc/news.html)
See the Barrie Examiner story at:
www.thebarrieexaminer.com...news1.html (http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com...news1.html)

"No man can establish himself by wickedness,but good men have roots that cannot be dislodged" Proverbs 11:3

Edited by: tacitus c at: 3/3/01 11:03:15 pm


Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 391
(3/4/01 12:40:07 am)
Reply Re: perverts in Canada win again.
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TAC,

So what' the big deal? Age 14 to 29, therefore if under 18 parents will decide if they go, otherwise it's up to them. Good Lord ! Does sex scare you that much?
The Padre

The_RANDy_Corporation
03-10-2001, 02:08 PM
Tazeeyore2
Gold Star Member
posts: 29
(3/4/01 1:02:59 am)
Reply
Re: A LEGAL SYSTEM GONE MAD !!!!!!!!!!
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Yukon the Whiner! Again you prove my point. Liberal dimwits have no clue as to what truth is. If you were accused of having one atom of intelligence there would not be enough evidence to convict you!
Dave Smith
Conservative American
A Quote from Adolph Hitler-"To gain the sympathy of great masses you must say the crudest and most stupid things." this sounds like a page from the DNC handbook. Daschal and Gephardt must have stuidied under der furor because they emulate him perfectly.


EagleTed
Forum Host
posts: 160
(3/4/01 1:20:59 pm)
Reply Venus makes a good point.
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Father Yukon has a point, too (you just have to remove his hat to see it).

Unsupervised, single-parent children are a scourge to society. People have to live up to their obligations to the children, that is, maintain two parents, or at least have a strick grandma and grandpa who will keep the child in the straight and narrow. I don't know how you legislate that, but at least we can discourage single parenthood.


Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 399
(3/4/01 8:14:33 pm)
Reply Re: Venus makes a good point.
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Conservatives believe single parents should be jailed if their children break the law. At least the non-white parents anyway.
The Padre


Rhino
Forum Moderator
posts: 1170
(3/4/01 8:26:27 pm)
Reply
Re: Venus makes a good point.
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Lay off the drugs and post something lucid Yuckie. This stuff is too ridiculous to respond to.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"If ignorance were truly bliss, this would be one hell of a happy country." - Rhino
http://www.siscom.net/~simdad



MaximumSam
Gold Star Member
posts: 211
(3/4/01 8:35:22 pm)
Reply Re: Venus makes a good point.
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Yukon,

You are right. Jailing the single parents has been a theme throughout this topic. The obvious racial bias in our justice system just means exactly what you said. As long as people want to jail single parents, non-white parents will be the ones jailed.

The Max

"I came here to give a speech on the truth. If the truth is anti-American, then blame the truth, but don't blame me." - Malcolm X


Rhino
Forum Moderator
posts: 1175
(3/4/01 8:37:21 pm)
Reply
Re: Venus makes a good point.
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Another conspiracy theorist, a la the National Enquirer? Sam, I gave you more credit. Guess you didn't deserve it.
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"If ignorance were truly bliss, this would be one hell of a happy country." - Rhino
http://www.siscom.net/~simdad



MaximumSam
Gold Star Member
posts: 212
(3/4/01 9:15:20 pm)
Reply Re: Venus makes a good point.
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Rhino,

There is no conspiracy. It is just the sad facts.

Fact #1)There is a movement to make single parents criminally responsible for their children.

Fact #2) Our justice system discriminates against poor people.

Fact #3) Minorities are more likely to be poor.

When you add all 3 facts together, the movement to criminalize single parents will affect minorites more than white people.

"I came here to give a speech on the truth. If the truth is anti-American, then blame the truth, but don't blame me." - Malcolm X


Rhino
Forum Moderator
posts: 1177
(3/4/01 9:20:28 pm)
Reply
Re: Venus makes a good point.
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1 is ridiculous, unless you include all parents

2 is a theory

3 I can agree on

I do think it will affect minorities more, but not for the reasons you cite.
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"If ignorance were truly bliss, this would be one hell of a happy country." - Rhino
http://www.siscom.net/~simdad



MaximumSam
Gold Star Member
posts: 213
(3/4/01 9:33:51 pm)
Reply Re: Venus makes a good point.
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1) I think it's ridiculous too.

2) It's a pretty strong theory. Your chances in the legal system are highly affected by the quality of lawyer that you have. High quality lawyer=A guy who has a more narrow interest in your case and getting you off. He is served by dragging out as long as possible, as that way he gets more money. This means a better chance at getting off or better plea. Little money = public defender who has tons of cases and little money to work on your case. Furthermore, since he usually gets paid per case instead of per hour, he has a better interest in getting a quick plea than a trial. If you do go to trial, you can feel good that he has few resources to help you out, and he has to spread them among dozens of cases.

3) We agree.

"I came here to give a speech on the truth. If the truth is anti-American, then blame the truth, but don't blame me." - Malcolm X


Rhino
Forum Moderator
posts: 1178
(3/4/01 9:43:39 pm)
Reply
Re: Venus makes a good point.
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I see your point on 2, but I would categorize that as their poverty being the discriminatory factor rather than the justice system. The end result is the same though.
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"If ignorance were truly bliss, this would be one hell of a happy country." - Rhino
http://www.siscom.net/~simdad



Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 402
(3/4/01 10:39:07 pm)
Reply Re: Venus makes a good point.
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RHINO,

Whebn the crazy laws are passed that affect single black mothers you'll city your cities burn again.
The Padre


Rhino
Forum Moderator
posts: 1181
(3/5/01 7:39:21 am)
Reply
Re: Venus makes a good point.
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Can't imagine anyone proposing any laws like that, much less passing them, since that would be illegal. Haven't seen any cities burn yet either, so it would be difficult to see them burn again.
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"If ignorance were truly bliss, this would be one hell of a happy country." - Rhino
http://www.siscom.net/~simdad



Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 410
(3/5/01 7:52:43 am)
Reply Re: Venus makes a good point.
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RHINO,

Too bad you missed the 60's............
The Padre


Rhino
Forum Moderator
posts: 1183
(3/5/01 7:59:48 am)
Reply
Re: Venus makes a good point.
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Didn't miss them at all. You shoulda laid off the drugs. No cities burned, except maybe in your flashbacks.
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"If ignorance were truly bliss, this would be one hell of a happy country." - Rhino
http://www.siscom.net/~simdad



Westbrook
Gold Star Member
posts: 226
(3/5/01 8:11:25 am)
Reply Holding parents responsible ...
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The greatest formula for failure is to hold a party responsible while mitigating that party's authority to discharge that responsibility.

Parents whose children are in the government school system and/or the government day care system do not have the authority to properly discipline their children. Furthermore, these government institutions impart to the children under their care the worldview that life has no transcendent meaning.

If you want to hold someone responsible other than the merciless tyrant that perpretrated this act, then blame the cadre of psychobabbling "Child Protection" parasites, the drooling education elite, and their toadies in the courts.

As for capital punishment, it is barbaric in all its manifestations, including abortion.
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. ~~Romans 12:21


Yukon1
Gold Star Leftie Goron
posts: 419
(3/5/01 10:18:20 am)
Reply Re: Holding parents responsible ...
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WEST,

You always cop-out:

" Parents whose children are in the government school system and/or the government day care system do not have the authority to properly discipline their children. Furthermore, these government institutions impart to the children under their care the worldview that life has no transcendent meaning. "

The Government's at fault?


The Padre


The RANDy Corporation
Forum Host
posts: 422
(3/5/01 10:37:04 am)
Reply | Edit
getting in late
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Interesting thread, but. . . what's the point?

Juries do what juries do.

Warlady . . . I think its time for this thread to be moved to the Legal Eagle board!!


------------ Joshua 24:15


Rhino
Forum Moderator
posts: 1194
(3/5/01 10:40:55 am)
Reply
Re: getting in late
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Good point. I'll take care of it.
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"If ignorance were truly bliss, this would be one hell of a happy country." - Rhino
http://www.siscom.net/~simdad



The RANDy Corporation
Forum Host
posts: 427
(3/5/01 11:06:07 am)
Reply | Edit
oh
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Dude, I forgot you could do that! Thanks.
------------ Joshua 24:15


Venus3000
I should register!
(3/5/01 5:38:42 pm)
Reply On responsibility and poverty
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If parents were held responsible in criminal court for their children's commission of crimes, as well as their children being held responsible for the acts themselves, it's probable that more poor parents would be prosecuted and incarcerated. But the prosecution would not be for poverty, it would be for a crime.

The fallacy of cause-and-effect arguments is subtle because an undesirable result is connected to an idea devised to address a separate matter, thus evoking an emotional response that may or may not also be rational but, in any case, diverts the focus. For instance, if we pass laws that require all drivers to carry liability insurance to protect other drivers, there are some people who will not be able to drive because they cannot afford the insurance. That's a direct effect of the law. What may also happen, as a result of that, is that those people unable to afford insurance will not be able to drive to work, thus becoming poorer and a burden on society. Therefore, one could conclude that insurance requirement laws cause poverty. But, while they're causing poverty on the one hand, they're preventing poverty on the other. Why? Because people who can only afford liability insurance but not collision are protected from the financial loss they suffer when they are the victim of an accident caused by another insured. They are able to recover financially-----and buy another vehicle-----to get to work-----so that they do not suffer poverty and become a burden on society. The second example is a result of what the law was, in part, intended to do, the first is not. So, do insurance requirement laws discrimate against the poor? If it's true that more minorities are poor than middle-class, do insurance requirement laws discrimate against minorities? Incidentally, will there come a time when members of minorities look around themselves at mistakes others in their group have made that have an important role in the problems they experience as a culture, and determine that another choice might be wiser? Will those wiser choices, when taken, create changes within minority cultures? Would this be beneficial to the members of that group? Is there anything that non-minority group members can do to facilitate this effort, or is their input, other than financial, usually resented and rejected as 'racist'?

The point that someone made about state-run schools, their regulations, laws and other situational factors that prevent parents from being able to discipline their children as mitigating their responsibility for their children's criminal acts so much so that parents are reasonably precluded from criminal prosecution for negligence because their kids are unruly and unsupervised seems a more valid argument at face, but still requires cart-before-the-horse reasoning. It seems that if laws governing the disciplining of children are so cumbersome, yet offer no practical alternatives, then the public should not look to the law and the government to solve the problems. Actually, speaking of schools, it sounds a bit like the "The dog ate my homework" excuse. Sometimes the government, like a child, gets a little too carried away and needs to be reigned in, with more personal and immediate solutions pursued.

Until then, I believe that prosecuting parents for criminal negligence when their child commits a serious crime would provide real-time results. Obviously, this is not an 'instead of' proposal, and would include a prosecution and punishment component for the child.