Should Abortion be considered in certain cases?

[PrezLeefun]

Should Abortion be considered in certian cases?

i am very pro life, ( although i put a leg out there if the mother is at risk of death if she were to go full term with the pregnancy)

and every time i say that someone pops out with "But what if a woman was raped?" "What about incest?"

so what if a woman is raped? what if there was incest? should an abortion be allowed? should us pro-lifers be sympathetic? should we give in Roe v Wade?

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Should Abortion be considered in certian cases?In rare, extreme cases where neither the mother nor child would live if something were not done . . . such as an ectopic pregnancy.

i am very pro life, ( although i put a leg out there if the mother is at risk of death if she were to go full term with the pregnancy)I would classify myself with the first part of your statement, I am very pro-life.

and every time i say that someone pops out with "But what if a woman was raped?" "What about incest?"

so what if a woman is raped?How is the sin of the father (the rapist) the fault of the child? Why should the child be punished for the sin of the father? No, abortion in cases of rape is wrong, IMO. You would be killing a child for no fault of their own.

what if there was incest? should an abortion be allowed?Again, how is the sin of the father (literally, the incestuous father) the fault of the child? No, abortion in cases of incest is also wrong, IMO. You would be killing a child for no fault of their own. And I am aware of the potential health risks . . . but women give birth to Down's chldren, mentally handicapped children, "slow" children, deformed children, etc. every day which were not a product of such an act. I am also familiar with children born of incest who turned out just fine (I have met many in my search for my biological parents).

should us pro-lifers be sympathetic? should we give in Roe v Wade?Sympathetic? Yes. Do all we can to help people in these types of situations, reach out to them with the love of Christ? Yes. Give a blank check to child-murderers in this country? No. Abortion should be outlawed, it is the same as murder. Thou shalt not kill.

[Wolfcounsel]

In the case of rape or incest, I believe the victim should make the decision whether to murder the baby or keep him. Okay, commence to kick my ass, people.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

In the case of rape or incest, I believe the victim should make the decision whether to murder the baby or keep him. Okay, commence to kick my ass, people.Wolfie,

I admire you too much, I would never do that to you. Just one question, though, wouldn't that then make the baby the victim? Just a thought.
With Highest Regard,
Hms :D

[Wolfcounsel]

I believe the technology is available for the conceived child to be transferred to the uterus of another woman willing to carry the baby. I would say this is a tough call. The baby would probably be put up for adoption. No need for abortion. The scenario of rape or incest and conception is very possible. We went over this a while back, and I got creamed for saying it's the victim's decision. In the case of a wife, the husband has to have a say in this. But I think in rape or incest, the perp should be put to death, quickly.

[CzechPrince]

I am pro life, becasue it is a violation of the Social Contract, and since by defention the fetus or zygote is a homo sapien, they are legally a human being.

Now, if that child infringes on the mother's right to life (Which would mean her life is in danger if she delivers it) then yes abortion could be permitted, but those are so rare there is no reason to we should not outlaw them accross the board except emergency cases.

I am not sure with rape. Usually that does not happen since women can get a rape kit which includes the pill at a clinic or hospital. I see both sides, HomeSchoolers' and WolfCousels'.

[PrezLeefun]

i must say i am impressed by the ideas. And as a wannabe politican as usual I find myself between a rock and a hard place. I have always said I felt bad for someone who was raped but i couldn't say yes to every woman who claimed rape. One day a friend asked

"What if the woman could prove she was raped?"

I then responed for the first time in since I was 11 "I'm...not sure. I guess... that would be better."

Logically no woman would lie about rape for the purpose of getting an abortion.

i still dont think it is right. i think abortion just hurts more people, but

"What if the woman could prove she was raped?"

[dajoga]

...whether to murder the baby...

There's the answer--IOW, when is murder OK??

[dajoga]

Logically no woman would lie about rape for the purpose of getting an abortion.


Huh?? If that were made the requirement for abortion, our courts would be full of "rape" cases. "Logically," any woman who would kill her baby wouldn't hesitate to lie either.

[Wolfcounsel]

"There's the answer--IOW, when is murder OK??" --dgauw

Murder is never okay. Try this. Or not. The same lifeboat scenario. Ten people on a boat. You are the only one armed, with a 15-round pistol. If four people do not go over the side, with Great Whites swimming around the boat, all of you will die. What do you do? Everyone is innocent. No, this is not the same as a pregnant rape victim, because there is no life threat to either the mother or the baby. But try to answer it, if you choose to consider it.<!-- / message -->

[CzechPrince]

"What if the woman could prove she was raped?"
If a woman is raped and she goes to the hospital in a short time after it, doctors can tell weather she was raped or not.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

"What if the woman could prove she was raped?"Again, how is that the baby's fault? Why does that particular crime negate the child's right to life? How does that specific fact of conception play a part in whether the child is worthy to live, or be condemned to death?

In my opinion, UNLESS both the child and the mother's lives are at stake, such as an ectopic pregnancy -- which CANNOT result in a live birth, healthy child, and/or healthy mother -- abortion, no matter HOW the child was conceived, is still murder.

[PrezLeefun]

Huh?? If that were made the requirement for abortion, our courts would be full of "rape" cases. "Logically," any woman who would kill her baby wouldn't hesitate to lie either.
if the woman can prove she was raped by presenting a rape kit, thats date conincides with the length of the pregnacy then should she be allowed to get an abortion. .

[Curtman]

"There's the answer--IOW, when is murder OK??" --dgauw

Murder is never okay. Try this. Or not. The same lifeboat scenario. Ten people on a boat. You are the only one armed, with a 15-round pistol. If four people do not go over the side, with Great Whites swimming around the boat, all of you will die. What do you do? Everyone is innocent. No, this is not the same as a pregnant rape victim, because there is no life threat to either the mother or the baby. But try to answer it, if you choose to consider it.<!-- / message -->
Eww.. Thats a really puting me on the spot. I'd say tonight it looks like we eat sushie... Wheew, dodged that bullet.:eek:

[Timberwolf]

"There's the answer--IOW, when is murder OK??" --dgauw

Murder is never okay. Try this. Or not. The same lifeboat scenario. Ten people on a boat. You are the only one armed, with a 15-round pistol. If four people do not go over the side, with Great Whites swimming around the boat, all of you will die. What do you do? Everyone is innocent. No, this is not the same as a pregnant rape victim, because there is no life threat to either the mother or the baby. But try to answer it, if you choose to consider it.<!-- / message -->Shoot one of the sharks?? That way, the others will feed upon IT.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Shoot one of the sharks?? That way, the others will feed upon IT." --Timberwolf


The life or death of the sharks will not affect the survival of 6 of the people or death of all 10 of the people. There are only two choices. Four die or all 10 die. You are in charge. Let me make it easier. Who decides who will die?

[PrezLeefun]

i hoped this thread would stick to the human species

[Wolfcounsel]

I believe those specimens on the lifeboat ARE human, Prez. I said you can take the Great Whites out of the equation.

READ!:whip:

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

"There's the answer--IOW, when is murder OK??" --dgauw

Murder is never okay. Try this. Or not. The same lifeboat scenario. Ten people on a boat. You are the only one armed, with a 15-round pistol. If four people do not go over the side, with Great Whites swimming around the boat, all of you will die. What do you do? Everyone is innocent. No, this is not the same as a pregnant rape victim, because there is no life threat to either the mother or the baby. But try to answer it, if you choose to consider it.<!-- / message -->A thought just occured to me -- WHY will all die if four are not sacrificed overboard? As long as they are all on the lifeboat, no one iis in danger from the sharks. They all may die of thirst or starvation, but there is at least a chance a boat might find them or a plane passing overhead. There is just as much chance that all will die if four go in the water and NO boat finds them or NO plane passes overhead.

I guess I subscribe to Captain Kirk's answer to the Kobiashi Maru:
"Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan opens on the bridge of the Enterprise, with Lt. Saavik, a young Vulcan officer in command. Faced with a no-win situation, she makes a decision, and everyone on board is killed. The camera then fades back, and it turns out that she has been in a simulation called the Kobiashi Maru, a scenario in which there is no way out. Captain Kirk, we find out, is the only person ever to have escaped "alive" from the simulation, and he did it by reprogramming the computer. "I don't believe in no-win situations," he says . . .
( Link: Saturday Night Theologian, 2004.03.14 (http://www.progressivetheology.org/SNT/SNT-2004.03.14.html) )

:D

[PrezLeefun]

I believe those specimens on the lifeboat ARE human, Prez. I said you can take the Great Whites out of the equation.

READ!:whip:
calm down....it was appearently... a feeble attempt to keep on topic...strictly on topic.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

:unsmile: Abortion should be allowed, only when the woman's life is in danger, & that's extremely rare. As for cases of rape, I'd ask the same question that applies to most other abortions; "What about the baby?"

[PrezLeefun]

sometimes i dont what think about the baby except that in the end abortion is wrong, so i guess my conceince makes it up for me.

[Wolfcounsel]

"A thought just occured to me -- WHY will all die if four are not sacrificed overboard?" --HomeschoolrsRUs

Don't try any what ifs, Home. It's only a hypothetical situation, with at the most 10 people dying, or at the least 4. Unless one of them can grab the pistol from you and shoot you. Then that leaves only three to go.:laugh:

[UnkHiram]

MY OWN OPIONON

Abortion is wrong ---- Always, every time, no exceptions. However it can be justified if the Mother and child will DIE if she takes the child to full term. Could i live with that justification for murdering my child, I honestly dont know. My faith teaches me that with God there is always hope.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

"A thought just occured to me -- WHY will all die if four are not sacrificed overboard?" --HomeschoolrsRUs

Don't try any what ifs, Home. It's only a hypothetical situation, with at the most 10 people dying, or at the least 4. Unless one of them can grab the pistol from you and shoot you. Then that leaves only three to go.:laugh:Sorry Wolfie,
I wasn't trying to be a smart donkey :icon126: -- I guess my nature is to always look for alternatives.:D I guess I'm not good at the people in the boat scenario.:smack:

In any case, I stand by my assertion. Abortion is wrong in all cases except extreme, rare cases where both the mother and child would die if something was not done (like an ectopic pregnancy).

[Wolfcounsel]

I understand, Home.:cool: The scenario deals with murder. Just like the mother holding on to her two children who are dangling 100 feet over a crocodile-infested river. She cannot hold on to both, so she has to let go of one and hold the other one.

[PrezLeefun]

Homeschooler u can say ass its not sin

[Peachdiane]

Should Abortion be considered in certian cases?

I'd never tell a victim of rape or incest what to do. I don't have to carry the child, suffer the emotional trauma, or bear the financial burden.

I can only speak for myself. I think that should I be victimized, the thought that I, in turn, would victimize my own innocent child through abortion is repulsive. First there's the sexual rape and then a medical rape. No thanks.

There was a major study where 75% to 85% rape victims chose against abortion. That should cause people to pause and reflect on the false presumption that abortion is wanted or even best for all sexual assault victims.

If I needed to die to save the life of the baby, I would. But that would do my other children a disservice, to deprive them of a mom.

A case that is interesting to me is the McCaughey septuplets. The mom took fertility drugs to get pregnant and then went against doctor's advice and refused selective abortion. Some of the children have delays and one has cerebral palsy.

I wonder if I'd abort had docs been able to convince me that my life, and the lives of the seven were in serious danger.

[Peachdiane]

I understand, Home.:cool: The scenario deals with murder. Just like the mother holding on to her two children who are dangling 100 feet over a crocodile-infested river. She cannot hold on to both, so she has to let go of one and hold the other one.


You just reminded me of the movie, "The Good Son." Except in this movie, one boy was evil.

[Faithful_Servant]

If a woman is raped and she goes to the hospital in a short time after it, doctors can tell weather she was raped or not.
They can tell if she engaged in sex, but not if she was raped. Unless the rapist physically damages the victim beyond the possible damage done by the "sexual" part of the rape, there is no way for a doctor to separate rape from "rough sex".

[Wolfcounsel]

"You just reminded me of the movie, "The Good Son." Except in this movie, one boy was evil." --Peachdiane

Yes, I saw the movie. In my story above, both kids are good. Difficult, I would say.<!-- / message -->

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Homeschooler u can say ass its not sinNo offense, but I wasn't asking for permission, LOL :D

[PrezLeefun]

No offense, but I wasn't asking for permission, LOL :D
lol:D

[Republican_Legion]

i just listen to what the vatican says .

[MSGT]

<DIR>In the lifeboat there is no guarantee anyone will survive anyway, so I throw the gun overboard. If I am about to face God it will not be with bloody hands. With the two children in my hands, I could not live with myself if I let one go. If we go we go together. BTW God has yet to let me down, so if He can keep Daniel He can keep me, a lion an crocodile what's the difference. Like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego said,

Dan 3:17 If it is so that our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, then He will deliver us out of your hand, O king.
Dan 3:18 But if not, let it be known to you, O king, that we will not serve your gods nor worship the golden image which you have set up.

</DIR>