Self defense- Is it murder?

[PrezLeefun]

Self defense- Is it murder?

No of course not. Not in my opinion at least. In the heat of the moment, to protect life in definate danger, how can it be murder? A friend said a "life is a life" So where and how do the lines get blurred? Is it ever ok to kill?

[MSGT]

NO, you can kill anyone on the 5, 405 or PCH.

[DesertFox]

1) Society can only work when everyone shows some respect for everyone else. Those who don't respect others' right to life have no such right.

2) Society -- and individuals within society -- has a right to defend itself from predators, as implied in the whole idea of a "right to life."

[PrezLeefun]

Ya know i forgot that I started this thread (go figure!) Good perspective mag.

[CzechPrince]

mur·der
n.


The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice. (dictionary.com)

So no, by our laws and the dictionary, self defense is not murder the least bit. That is why abortion IS murder unless the mother's life is at stake, in that case I would consider that, "Self Defense".

Just a Libertarian's point of view.

[DoctorDoom]

And since the mother's life is very rarely in danger from a normal pregnancy, the overwhelming majority of abortions are murder. This is why the baby-killers are obsessed with denying the humanity of the "fetus".

[BEST45CAL]

Self defense- Is it murder?

No of course not. Not in my opinion at least. In the heat of the moment, to protect life in definate danger, how can it be murder? A friend said a "life is a life" So where and how do the lines get blurred? Is it ever ok to kill?

Yep...you're right. It is not murder.

The Bible translation for the Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill" was not interpreted correctly from the original Hebrew texts.

It should read: "Thou Shalt Not Do Murder."

A massive difference.

Killing can be justified. Murder cannot.

You actually fail God by not defending yourself against those in our society who would want to subvert His word by bringing you harm.

[CzechPrince]

Exactly.

[Sierra]

I've always been amazed by how quickly a majority of people will answer this question of killing their fellow man without giving it all consideration such a momentous decision is due. It's a question that almost begs for an emotional or quick answer but whether your answer is ultimately yes or no, when seriously contemplated one gets caught up in a myriad of teachings whether religious or societal. As one who has killed in war, and has come within a heart beat of repeating it in a civilian setting; I can honestly tell you taking a life is hardly quite as cut and dried as many would make it appear.

There are many ways to kill some forms, spare us the dirty details like abortion, or when we support a death penalty verdict. However when one has to look at the human whose life they will soon terminate the dynamic changes abruptly. I've known bomber pilots who killed hundreds while on a sortie who remarked they were thankful they were spared the gory details by the filter of altitude. Likewise I've met still others who were snipers who could tell the color of their intended victim’s eyes before they terminated them. Mine were mostly from a distance as a helicopter door gunner in Vietnam; however the situation one and all the one common denominator we all shared was the nightly visits by the shades of those whose lives we took.

Years later I came within an eye lash of shooting a youth breaking into my home. I'm thankful to this day his quick surrender allowed me to spare his life and merely hold him for the police. I guess what I'm trying to say is when you kill you pay a price; so never ever make the assumption that the choice to kill is ultimately either quick or easy once it moves beyond the realm of theory . .......... Sierra

[Wolfcounsel]

"I've always been amazed by how quickly a majority of people will answer this question of killing their fellow man without giving it all consideration such a momentous decision is due." --Sierra


I can't see how taking out the trash could bother some people.

[BEST45CAL]

I've always been amazed by how quickly a majority of people will answer this question of killing their fellow man without giving it all consideration such a momentous decision is due. It's a question that almost begs for an emotional or quick answer but whether your answer is ultimately yes or no, when seriously contemplated one gets caught up in a myriad of teachings whether religious or societal. As one who has killed in war, and has come within a heart beat of repeating it in a civilian setting; I can honestly tell you taking a life is hardly quite as cut and dried as many would make it appear.

There are many ways to kill some forms, spare us the dirty details like abortion, or when we support a death penalty verdict. However when one has to look at the human whose life they will soon terminate the dynamic changes abruptly. I've known bomber pilots who killed hundreds while on a sortie who remarked they were thankful they were spared the gory details by the filter of altitude. Likewise I've met still others who were snipers who could tell the color of their intended victim’s eyes before they terminated them. Mine were mostly from a distance as a helicopter door gunner in Vietnam; however the situation one and all the one common denominator we all shared was the nightly visits by the shades of those whose lives we took.

Years later I came within an eye lash of shooting a youth breaking into my home. I'm thankful to this day his quick surrender allowed me to spare his life and merely hold him for the police. I guess what I'm trying to say is when you kill you pay a price; so never ever make the assumption that the choice to kill is ultimately either quick or easy once it moves beyond the realm of theory . .......... Sierra

You are right about the relief associated with not having to take a life.

A few years ago one night, some punk ran out of the mall and into the parking lot, going around to various cars, trying to get inside one of them by pulling on the door handles.

I had just got into my car and was about to drive away, but within a few seconds he was already making his way toward me.

I had a chance to see what he was trying to do just before he came up to me, so I grabbed my .45 from under the armrest and removed the safety. I was ready to go.

As I turned back around, he had just stopped at my window. I think I startled him because I don't think that he saw me sitting there a few seconds earlier.

All I did was point my .45 at his heart. He took one look at that barrel and jumped back, screaming "It's cool! It's cool!" He ran across the parking lot and didn't bother any other cars. I think he ran home. I don't know. Then I went home. Needless to say, I never went back to that mall.

It was a huge relief to not have to pull that trigger.

"Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be known as the children of God." Matthew 5:9

[Sierra]

I can't see how taking out the trash could bother some people.


On the surface it would seem so friend but trust me it is that simple pang of conscience that separates us from the "Trash" you describe. I only pray you never have to find out. ….. Sierra

[Wolfcounsel]

"On the surface it would seem so friend but trust me it is that simple pang of conscience that separates us from the "Trash" you describe. I only pray you never have to find out." --Sierra


Killing affects each person differently. We are not all built the same inside.

[Peachdiane]

No, self defense isn't murder.

But I tell people to do their homework. Check your state AND local statutes before engaging in what you think is "self-defense." Most people's definition of "self-defense" is looked upon by the law as "fighting." I have actually seen people being arrested for "defending themselves." They said it was self defense. Truth is they weren't defending themselves, they were participating in the escalation, the cause and the fight itself.

Local statutes here have REAL self defense down as legal while fighting is illegal.

[Sierra]

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No, self defense isn't murder.

But I tell people to do their homework. Check your state AND local statutes before engaging in what you think is "self-defense." Most people's definition of "self-defense" is looked upon by the law as "fighting." I have actually seen people being arrested for "defending themselves." They said it was self defense. Truth is they weren't defending themselves, they were participating in the escalation, the cause and the fight itself.

Local statutes here have REAL self defense down as legal while fighting is illegal.<o:p></o:p>

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Wise counsel; that old over used saying "I'd rather be judged by 12, than carried by six" loses it's allure quickly, especially when you face the possibility of some over zealous District Attorney trying to convict you of 2nd degree murder. Or you find yourself in the tender clutches of some blood sucking lawyer who wants to sue you on behalf of the family of the miscreant whose life you took while defending yours. I strongly advise people especially those who have CCWs to know their state’s laws as regards the civilian use of deadly force. In addition I strongly recommend you find out what civil liabilities are applicable as well. Not that any of these would stay my hand if it became necessary to defend me or my family, but you better know what you're in for. <o:p></o:p>

[Wolfcounsel]

"Not that any of these would stay my hand if it became necessary to defend me or my family, but you better know what you're in for." --Sierra


Okay. I'd rather be judged by twelve and face a blood-sucking lawyer than be buried or watch my family carried by six. I will tattoo the words EAT SH*T on my forehead first before I go in front of the clowns in court.

[For_My_Canada]

Hm, I always thought murder was the killing of the innocent, so defending yourself I couldn't see as being murder.

[2nd_Amendment]

Been there, done that. Sorry, didn't lose a wink of sleep over it. But I've been called heartless before so...

[PrezLeefun]

oy vey

[Kathy29]

Self defense is almost never premeditated. Murder is the killing of a human being by another human being with malice aforethought.

Malice is usually what's missing.

[Wolfcounsel]

I don't know about the missing malice. I will kill in self-defense with extreme malice toward the garbage.

[Rhino]

There's some confusion between justification and import here. No two self defense scenarios are exactly alike. Many will indeed require tough decisions of paramount import where taking a human life is involved. But many other situations may make that a simple and easy choice, cut and dried. That doesn't take away from the enormity of taking a human life, but that enormity isn't always going to make the decision harder. If I or a member of my family were faced with bodily harm, I could make that 'killing' decision quite easily, but that does not mean that I don't value human life or that I attach little significance to taking it. The decision could be simple, even if the impact is not.

[Wolfcounsel]

"If I or a member of my family were faced with bodily harm, I could make that 'killing' decision quite easily, but that does not mean that I don't value human life or that I attach little significance to taking it." --Rhino


I hope you're doing better, Rhino.

To me, human life is valuable if the person has respect for the innocent. An intruder threatening any member of my family is instantly relegated to the gates of Hell in my eyes. I will not bat an eye nor will I lose any sleep in taking out the trash.