Let the Poor Woman Die Already

[iFocusNews.com]

Terri Schiavo is being kept alive artificially, so stop trying to sugar-coat it. Just let the woman die in peace already.

I'm as conservative as anyone here, and I AM pro-life -- but it irritates me that the people who claim to reason by common sense and logical thought can be so easily emotionalized. Don’t let emotion cloud fact and reality.

ANSWER ME THIS: I’d like to hear from one person here that would want to be alive in her condition. Just one. Because I sure as hell don’t know anyone that would. And were it my wife or daughter, I would never be so selfish as to keep her alive for 15 years in a purely artificial state. Yes, I said selfish. I understand why the parents who had raised and nurtured a child from birth would hold onto all possible hope. But they are selfishly extending Terri’s lifeless state because of their inability to confront the reality that they’re not getting their daughter back. Keeping her alive in such condition is simply cruel.

Michael Schiavo stood to inherit $700,000 from the malpractice case when she dies. So if he wants to take out his wife’s feeding tube for the money, why wouldn’t he have just taken the $1 million offered to him to keep his wife alive? The debts from Mrs. Schiavo’s hospital bills will have completely drained that money anyway – there won’t be a penny to inherit.

If Schiavo’s life is a testimony to God’s grace, I’d sure hate to see His wrath. She is being kept alive by doctors, not grace.

You all are coming up with pathetic evidences that Mrs. Schiavo supposedly isn’t in a persistent vegetative state. Well let’s see: she can’t walk, she can’t talk, she can’t feed herself, she has the mental capacity of an infant at best – and if you think that’s gonna change, then you’re tragically ignorant of modern medicine’s limits. Her cerebral cortex is irreparably damaged, and no procedure yet developed by man can change that. Just because one single doctor on the FOX News Channel disagrees doesn’t make it so. If anything could be done it would’ve been done so already. Accept that medical science has boundaries and that this simply is not a recoverable injury.

Enough with the pro-life antics and just let the poor woman die in peace.

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

I was going to go to bed, but unfortunately, this drivel was posted.

Terri Schiavo is being kept alive artificially, so stop trying to sugar-coat it. Just let the woman die in peace already.

Nope, we aren't the ones sugar-coating the fact that she is now being starved to death.

I'm as conservative as anyone here, and I AM pro-life -- but it irritates me that the people who claim to reason by common sense and logical thought can be so easily emotionalized. Don’t let emotion cloud fact and reality.

Right...



Michael Schiavo stood to inherit $700,000 from the malpractice case when she dies. So if he wants to take out his wife’s feeding tube for the money, why wouldn’t he have just taken the $1 million offered to him to keep his wife alive? The debts from Mrs. Schiavo’s hospital bills will have completely drained that money anyway – there won’t be a penny to inherit.

Many believe that Michael Schiavo is covering up how Terri got in that condition in the first place. I don't trust his motives one bit.


You all are coming up with pathetic evidences that Mrs. Schiavo supposedly isn’t in a persistent vegetative state.[/quote[

No, the evidence is quite persuasive actually. Many of the people who want Terri killed are pro-"right-to-die" and euthanasia wackos, and they misrepresented her actual state.

Well let’s see: she can’t walk, she can’t talk, she can’t feed herself, she has the mental capacity of an infant at best –

Right, which is why we kill infants, right? Start making some sense. She is a human being, you sicko! And she is NOT as bad off as you claim.


and if you think that’s gonna change, then you’re tragically ignorant of modern medicine’s limits.

No, you are tragically ignorant of Terri's actual state. Do some research, don't believe the media. AFter therapy, there's a good chance she could communicate by a number of alternative means.


. Just because one single doctor on the FOX News Channel disagrees doesn’t make it so.

Wrong. There are many more experts than just the "one single doctor on the FOX News Channel" who disagree.


If anything could be done it would’ve been done so already.

No, many opportunities for rehabilitation and therapy were conveniently ignored.


Accept that medical science has boundaries and that this simply is not a recoverable injury.

Nope, not going to accept it.

[quote]Enough with the pro-life antics and just let the poor woman die in peace.


Antics? ANTICS?

Your position is really more like, "Let the poor woman starve to death."

[Rink]

Why not wish death on one whose condition is even worse than Terri Schiavo?

I am referring to the renowned physicist Stephen Hawking.

Why arent we hearing the call to have him killed in the same manner, since after all his life is worse off than Terri schiavo we should be going after him as well.

This is the premise that you are basing the murder of this helpless woman on, her life is 'UNVIABLE, according to WHOM? YOU?

Her Husband?

She is ONLY on a feeding tube, Nothing more, Stephen Hawking is on life support and has to talk through a machine yet he's allowed to live and yet she is nOT?

Give me a dadgummed break and STFU All you're trying to do is usher in Euthanasia into America under the radar of 'death with dignity' who gives a flying F if she wants to live or not she cant speak for herself because her husband has done his level best to make sure she cant do so, Who gives a damn if she herself WANTS TO LIVE

According to all the experts her life is not worth living, she's unviable, she's in a Persistent Vegetative State DESPITE the evidence to the contrary!!!

All the lies are the truth as long as they get their way in killing off this Innocent Woman.

Screw you all for your evil designs upon the handicapped of America because if they succeed in killing this woman off in this manner they will not stop!!!! They will move onto the Nursing homes and start in killing off other handicapped that cannot speak for themselves!!

Make no mistake this is whats gonna happen, this isnt 'Terri's wish' its the wish of her 'husband who wants to make damned sure Terri cannot speak and finger him in his apparent attempted murder of her, and this is the wishes of those who wish to bring into America another Judicial precedential ruling forcing more murderings in the name of 'death with dignity

Screw the culture of death and screw those who are promotong the cultuire of death, they are the vanguard of the Totenkopf!!

The worshippers of the Death's head ideology that Hitler himself followed and implemented and Look what it got him and europe!!!

[Wolfcounsel]

"You all are coming up with pathetic evidences that Mrs. Schiavo supposedly isn’t in a persistent vegetative state." ---iFocusNews.com


Yeah? Well, don't ever assume you know sh*t about what I think. But if you were to ask, I would tell you that you have your head stuck up the ass of Terry's pathetic husband. So you'd better not ask.

[RuffhouseFarm]

Terri Schiavo is being kept alive artificially, so stop trying to sugar-coat it. Just let the woman die in peace already.

I'm as conservative as anyone here, and I AM pro-life -- but it irritates me that the people who claim to reason by common sense and logical thought can be so easily emotionalized. Don’t let emotion cloud fact and reality.

ANSWER ME THIS: I’d like to hear from one person here that would want to be alive in her condition. Just one. Because I sure as hell don’t know anyone that would. And were it my wife or daughter, I would never be so selfish as to keep her alive for 15 years in a purely artificial state. Yes, I said selfish. I understand why the parents who had raised and nurtured a child from birth would hold onto all possible hope. But they are selfishly extending Terri’s lifeless state because of their inability to confront the reality that they’re not getting their daughter back. Keeping her alive in such condition is simply cruel.

Michael Schiavo stood to inherit $700,000 from the malpractice case when she dies. So if he wants to take out his wife’s feeding tube for the money, why wouldn’t he have just taken the $1 million offered to him to keep his wife alive? The debts from Mrs. Schiavo’s hospital bills will have completely drained that money anyway – there won’t be a penny to inherit.

If Schiavo’s life is a testimony to God’s grace, I’d sure hate to see His wrath. She is being kept alive by doctors, not grace.

You all are coming up with pathetic evidences that Mrs. Schiavo supposedly isn’t in a persistent vegetative state. Well let’s see: she can’t walk, she can’t talk, she can’t feed herself, she has the mental capacity of an infant at best – and if you think that’s gonna change, then you’re tragically ignorant of modern medicine’s limits. Her cerebral cortex is irreparably damaged, and no procedure yet developed by man can change that. Just because one single doctor on the FOX News Channel disagrees doesn’t make it so. If anything could be done it would’ve been done so already. Accept that medical science has boundaries and that this simply is not a recoverable injury.

Enough with the pro-life antics and just let the poor woman die in peace.


I would want to live if I had people who loved me and I had some quality of life. We don't know what Terri's capabilities are, neither do you and most importantly, neither does Terri.

She is being kept alive by a feeding tube. Until just a few years ago, a feeding tube was not considered to be "artifical" or "resuscitative". It only became so a few years ago by legislation. Let's see if you can figure out which lobbies bankrolled the measure.

Schiavo isn't paying Terri's hospital bills. Medicaid is. That's part of the scam that's going on.

Schiavo doesn't pay his attorney fees. His legal case is funded by the ACLU which also has a litigation presence in the case.

The money from the suit that was awarded for Terri's rehab and therapy is still in the trust, so far as anybody knows. The trust still exists. Judge Greer, the notorious judge in this case, has never made Schiavo file an accounting of Terri's money. Does that not rattle a brain cell or two in your mind? When Schiavo sued, Terri was imrpoving with therapy. Schiavo professed his undying love for Terri in court and testified that she was imrpoving with the rehab therapy but that more money was needed because treatment is costly. He won the suit and the trust fund was funded by the insurance company, which coincided with the end of Terri's therapy. When the law about feeding tubes in FL changed, Schiavo began his campaign to have her tube removed. She was whisked to the hospice from the convalescent home in the middle of the night. Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, was the board chairman of the hospice. Judge Greer was also a board member. Felos resigned as board chair under pressure because of the unseemly appearance and Greer's board term expired. Greer ordered in court that Terri's hospice bills be paid by medicaid. Greer allows Schiavo to avoid the yearly filings and reports, financial records, care records and any records at all for that matter, all of which are statutorily required to be submitted annually by the guardian. Approximately thirty board-certified neurologists who have consulted without being able to examine Terri are flabbergasted that she has never even had an MRI or PET scan! Do I have to go on, or are you starting to get the picture? I've explained this many times now. Why don't you read the threads, explore the links, and learn something before you shoot your dumbass mouth off? Follow the money.

During the five years Terri has been in the hospice, odd things have been reported and testified to in depositions. Here are two examples: A nurse testified that she walked into the room and Schiavo was there and ordered her out. The room was dark. After he left, she found an empty insulin syringe on the floor under or near Terri's bed. Terri is not diabetic. Another nurse testified that she overheard Schiavo say to Terri, "When are you going to die, you bitch!"

She is not being kept alive by doctors. Schiavo has never changed the orders on file that she not receive care. She has bed sores full of pus and other conditions indicating deterioration due to neglect. She had no dental care for five years and hasn't had her teeth cleaned in years. She receives no medications (except they put her on pain medication when they took out the feeding tube), no therapy, nothing. Schiavo refused to let her have antibiotics when she had a pneumonia. Her parents took her by ambulance to a regular hospital. When Schiavo found out, he immediately ordered that she be returned to hospice and the antibiotics stopped. He tried to have her parents charged with kidnapping. He failed, but did succeed in getting them restrained from visitig Terri for quite a while. She has been in the hospice facility for five years. Hospice is for the dying, and assignment to a hospice facility by a doctor is supposed to only be for cases in which the patient is expected to die within six months. Don't you wonder why she is there? Follow the money.

[kate]

I don't know a lot about the case, I heard about it on TV but I really think that starving her to death isn't "letting the poor woman die in peace".

I'd rather support that people put preassure on the media and the doctors to finally let some experts help that woman. Obviously those who are "trying to help" aren't helping at all.. and it does not surprise me that this is happening in Florida.

Many anorexic women are forced to be on a feeding tube, do you want us to pull those out too and let them starve themselves to death?

Euthanasia is something Hitler promoted.. are you willing to share his opinion? I am certainly not.

[Suzie]

Starving is a horrible way to die and they wouldn't let you do it to an animal without legal action, much less a human. She isn't hooked up to anything that is keeping her alive "artifically" eveyone needs to eat and there are a lot of disabled people who can't chew and swallow food, but I don't want to starve them to death either. GOD will take her when it's her time to go, the parts of her body that keep all of us alive will fail. If she needed help sustaining such things now I might agree with you, but as long as her heart beats and lungs breath without assistance, stopping them from doing so is murder.

[Kathy29]

Since you asked....

If death were imminent (I mean IMMINENT) I would not want to be kept alive on life support for a few more hours until I died. Food is not considered life support, otherwise we'd ALL be on life support.

No mhatter how bad off I was, I would not want to die BY DEHYDRATION. Starving to death isn't so bad. Long before death, the body slips into a coma. When both food and water are deprived, death by dehydration occurs first and it is an UGLY and grotesque way to die. It is painful, extremely painful and bloody as the mucus membranes dry, crack and bleed.

In Terry Schiavo's case, death is not imminent. She is a healthy person who is brain damaged. It is murder, nothing less, and murder by a particularly horrible manner.

[RuffhouseFarm]

Since you asked....

If death were imminent (I mean IMMINENT) I would not want to be kept alive on life support for a few more hours until I died. Food is not considered life support, otherwise we'd ALL be on life support.

No mhatter how bad off I was, I would not want to die BY DEHYDRATION. Starving to death isn't so bad. Long before death, the body slips into a coma. When both food and water are deprived, death by dehydration occurs first and it is an UGLY and grotesque way to die. It is painful, extremely painful and bloody as the mucus membranes dry, crack and bleed.

In Terry Schiavo's case, death is not imminent. She is a healthy person who is brain damaged. It is murder, nothing less, and murder by a particularly horrible manner.

A feeding tube is considered life support in FL. A cabal of financially interested parties got it passed at the end of 1999. One of Schiavo's attorneys was pushing for it as early as 1997. Read some of the other threads. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[RuffhouseFarm]

Starving is a horrible way to die and they wouldn't let you do it to an animal without legal action, much less a human. She isn't hooked up to anything that is keeping her alive "artifically" eveyone needs to eat and there are a lot of disabled people who can't chew and swallow food, but I don't want to starve them to death either. GOD will take her when it's her time to go, the parts of her body that keep all of us alive will fail. If she needed help sustaining such things now I might agree with you, but as long as her heart beats and lungs breath without assistance, stopping them from doing so is murder.

That's right.

If Terri was a grasshopper this wouldn't be allowed.

[tacitus]

ifocus said, Well let’s see: she can’t walk, she can’t talk, she can’t feed herself,

Neither could Reeves did you call for his execution because that it exactly what you are saying. There are numerous people in the country in the same state as you describe, should we execute them also? How about all those in a coma, them also? Who the hell are you to dictate who lives and who dies? God?

[DesertFox]

As Rink pointed out, Stephen Hawking can't walk, talk, stand, shit, eat -- nothing -- by himself. But the world would shriek were he "unplugged."

[Maggie_T]

I don't know a lot about the case, I heard about it on TV but I really think that starving her to death isn't "letting the poor woman die in peace".

I'd rather support that people put preassure on the media and the doctors to finally let some experts help that woman. Obviously those who are "trying to help" aren't helping at all.. and it does not surprise me that this is happening in Florida.

Many anorexic women are forced to be on a feeding tube, do you want us to pull those out too and let them starve themselves to death?

Euthanasia is something Hitler promoted.. are you willing to share his opinion? I am certainly not.



Well said, Kate. Always good to hear from you, dear. :wave:

[RuffhouseFarm]

Ifocus.. I have seen someone much like Terri's condition,,, someone that was family. We were told the same thing... but with a fight and winning and the only doctor that said they could help her they did. She now walks, talks, eats, sleeps,,, functions like any of us. sure there are signs.. she walks with a funny gait,, and she has some problems in her speech but she made it and is very much alive and functioning. She always was aware in her state of what was being said around her and her condition.

HOW DARE YOU say you are pro life. YOU ARE NOT. You have no clue other than jumping on the band wagon. Hell she may not even be that much brain damaged. We don't know.. but the signs i see in her eyes are signs of life and of which she is very aware of what is going on.

I hope she does recuperate and tell us exactly what it is her husband is afraid of. Me thinks he's in some serious trouble if she does come back. This is nothing short of evil at it's worst.

Ya know what i hope for?? GOD says vengence is his.. well I would like to see everyone that has been in support of this slime ball husband and all that have aided in this meet with an accident that leaves you all in the state she is in and sit here and watch your feeding tubes and liquid removed. I want front row seats for that one. Poetic justice i call it.

Schiavo isn't the only one who's in trouble if she regains speech.

[DemonRat]

You compare Schiavo to other cases, like Stephen Hawking and Christopher Reeve, however, the difference is that while Hawking and Reeve were both physically disabled, they were both (obviously) very mentally capable. The problem with Terri Schiavo is that her cerebral cortex, the seat of all higher brain functions, has almost entirely turned to liquid.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/22/coma.woman/[/url]
"If you look at a brain scan of Terri, where her cerebral cortex used to be is a black hole filled with spinal fluid," he said. "There is simply no hope of recovery for Terri."


I've looked, and I haven't found anybody that actually is disputed the analysis of the brain scans that show this. So despite any wishful thinking, it is not physically possible for Terri to recover, or for her brain to function in any meaningful way.

Think of the dignity of this poor woman, no longer really alive, but hooked up to machines and paraded in front of cameras, becoming a national spectacle in this state. I would never wish that upon myself, or anybody I love, and I imagine most of you would feel the same way.

P.S. Could we PLEASE stop invoking Hitler in this conversation? Perhaps you all need to read up on Godwin's Law. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)

[Patriot Heart]

"Think of the dignity of this poor woman, no longer really alive, but hooked up to machines and paraded in front of cameras, becoming a national spectacle in this state. I would never wish that upon myself, or anybody I love, and I imagine most of you would feel the same way."


The bottom line is.....we CANNOT take upon ourselves those sorts of decisions. They simply are not ours to make. You cross a terrible line when you decide to choose the date of death for an innocent. We are directed by our Lord to provide sustenance for the hungry. That is all that is being done for Terri. She is relaxed. She smiles. It does not matter what WE think her life is worth. God will decide, and when we make that decision for him we are sinning.

[Rink]

You compare Schiavo to other cases, like Stephen Hawking and Christopher Reeve, however, the difference is that while Hawking and Reeve were both physically disabled, they were both (obviously) very mentally capable. The problem with Terri Schiavo is that her cerebral cortex, the seat of all higher brain functions, has almost entirely turned to liquid.



I've looked, and I haven't found anybody that actually is disputed the analysis of the brain scans that show this. So despite any wishful thinking, it is not physically possible for Terri to recover, or for her brain to function in any meaningful way.

Think of the dignity of this poor woman, no longer really alive, but hooked up to machines and paraded in front of cameras, becoming a national spectacle in this state. I would never wish that upon myself, or anybody I love, and I imagine most of you would feel the same way.

P.S. Could we PLEASE stop invoking Hitler in this conversation? Perhaps you all need to read up on Godwin's Law. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)

And had it not been for technology Stephen Hawking would not even be able to communicate whatsoever, so your argument is invalid, the comparisons are real.

Without the high-tech device that gives him a voice Stephen Hawking would be just as mute as terry Schiavo is today, and who are YOU to say Terry Schiavo doesnt have enough mental facilities to know whats goin on around her?

Just because she cannot articulate doesnt mean she does not know whats going on.

She may be slower than Stephen hawking in the thinking department but again that is no excuse to kill her off.

She is a human being who should have the same rights as Stephen Hawking has at life.

To say any otherwise JUST because of her mental faculties is Incredibly insulting.

One thing to note dear, when i was little and in Public schools the entire school board and their psychologists declared me a 'retard' yet long after I graduated Public school i wa tested by the DVR (Division of Vocational Rehabilitation) and my IQ was found to be that of approx 130, and the only reason it was 'low' was because of my hearing disability which impacted my speech and language and socialization abilities.

With that in mind who says terry schiavo doesnt have the mental faculties to use??

Those who say she's too brain-damaged to have a viable life may just be as wrong as those who labeled me a retard.

And that my friend is from the educated elites themselves in both cases.

Slower she may be but I Highly doubt she's completely incapable of independent thought dear.

your argument is disgusting

PS: one more thing Terry schiavo is NOT hooked up to Machines, she is ONLY on a feeding tube which is basic nourishment, the same kind of nourishment we all need to live.

As for the hitlerian comments and comparisons, Hitler was a strong advocate of Euthanasia and the first damn thing he went after was the handicapped and mentally ill.

THIS is the same thing, the educated elites of Hitler's day supported him whole-heartedly JUST as the educated elites of today are doing the very same thing.

Eugenics is becoming popular again, and along with Eugenics comes Euthanasia.

Every freikin thing Hitler espoused and believed in was in Eugenics and Euthanasia.

The Culture of Death boy!

[Warlady]

A mother and her 2 year old baby girl are at the hospice to protest the removal of the feeding tube. Why? Because her 2 year old survives on a feeding tube because she can't swallow. A feeding tube is not life support. It's just another way to eat. My Mother had to survive on one for 5 years before she died because of scar tissue from cobalt treatments years earlier. She would have died without that feeding tube. It would have been inhumane to remove it. My God this is no different.

[Blowback]

Terri Schiavo is being kept alive artificially, so stop trying to sugar-coat it. Just let the woman die in peace already.

I'm as conservative as anyone here, and I AM pro-life -- but it irritates me that the people who claim to reason by common sense and logical thought can be so easily emotionalized. Don’t let emotion cloud fact and reality.

ANSWER ME THIS: I’d like to hear from one person here that would want to be alive in her condition. Just one. Because I sure as hell don’t know anyone that would. And were it my wife or daughter, I would never be so selfish as to keep her alive for 15 years in a purely artificial state. Yes, I said selfish. I understand why the parents who had raised and nurtured a child from birth would hold onto all possible hope. But they are selfishly extending Terri’s lifeless state because of their inability to confront the reality that they’re not getting their daughter back. Keeping her alive in such condition is simply cruel.

Michael Schiavo stood to inherit $700,000 from the malpractice case when she dies. So if he wants to take out his wife’s feeding tube for the money, why wouldn’t he have just taken the $1 million offered to him to keep his wife alive? The debts from Mrs. Schiavo’s hospital bills will have completely drained that money anyway – there won’t be a penny to inherit.

If Schiavo’s life is a testimony to God’s grace, I’d sure hate to see His wrath. She is being kept alive by doctors, not grace.

You all are coming up with pathetic evidences that Mrs. Schiavo supposedly isn’t in a persistent vegetative state. Well let’s see: she can’t walk, she can’t talk, she can’t feed herself, she has the mental capacity of an infant at best – and if you think that’s gonna change, then you’re tragically ignorant of modern medicine’s limits. Her cerebral cortex is irreparably damaged, and no procedure yet developed by man can change that. Just because one single doctor on the FOX News Channel disagrees doesn’t make it so. If anything could be done it would’ve been done so already. Accept that medical science has boundaries and that this simply is not a recoverable injury.

Enough with the pro-life antics and just let the poor woman die in peace.



:claps: Amen.

[DemonRat]

Somehow I think you all ignored the most important part of my post.

HER CEREBRAL CORTEX IS LIQUID.

It's not a matter of communication, or levels of intelligence or functioning. She is physically incapable of higher brain functions.

Stephen Hawking is obviously a brilliant man who was rendered physically incapable of communicating. Stephen Hawking to this day still has a cerebral cortex. If Terri's cerebral cortex is in fact gone, it's not a matter of communication, but simply that she is unable to think or function.

I am not trying to make this decision, her husband is, and legally, he is the one with the right to make it. Whether giving this responsibility to him is right is another issue entirely, but it's my belief his decision is justified.

As for the feeding tube, certainly many people who are not vegatative require feeding tubes, and that alone should not be classified as artificially extending life. However, Terri Schiavo in all likelihood will never improve, and will never recover even basic mental capabilities. In that case, it can be decided that it's best to let her body finish dying.

[iFocusNews.com]

that makes their decisions of a Christian nature. Any person or entity whom attempts to come between a parent and their children are predators and should be dealt with in a swift and vicious manner. If the parents wishes are not granted it is time for another John Q maneuver.

People like you are exactly why more people aren't pro-life in this country -- because they rightfully see many of the pro-lifers as whackos. You give the rest of us a bad name.

And talk about Christianity -- evidently you're not familiar with the Bible or the part where it says a child leaves their parents to become one with their spouse. Someone should deal with you in a swift and vicious manner.

Blowback, thanks for standing up to agree with me against all these folks that don't like to be disagreed with.

[Warlady]

IFocus grow up. Just because people disagree with you save one or two you whine like a little baby. Good grief. The President of the United States and the governor of Florida happen to agree with us. Along with a host of other very prominent and well respected Republicans in Congress and in the media.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Somehow I think you all ignored the most important part of my post.

HER CEREBRAL CORTEX IS LIQUID.

Somehow I think YOU ignored the most important part of all the OTHER members posts.

If this is TRUE, then why not PROVE it. Allow her to receive OUTSIDE, INDEPENDENT medical treatment. Give her a period of "rehabilitation" and then see what happens. She should be evaluated by no less than THREE independent medical facilities/professionals -- who do not know each other and are not affiliated with either each other OR the Schiavo's or Schindlers.

Life ALWAYS deserves the benefit of the doubt -- and the ones who are making the decisions should NOT be:

1 -- a husband who is living with another woman as his wife, and fathered two children with her WHILE STILL MARRIED TO TERRI,

2 -- a Judge, who is NOT a medical professional, therefore not adequately knowledgeable in making this type of decision.

It's not a matter of communication, or levels of intelligence or functioning. She is physically incapable of higher brain functions.

NO ONE knows her communication abilities, because she has been systematically, routinely, and purposefully denied any type of rehabilitative care that would help DETERMINE what her level(s) of communication are. Besides, if they are THAT SURE of the "facts" you spell out -- let them PROVE IT, by allowing her to be privately, independently evaluated.

As for the feeding tube, certainly many people who are not vegatative require feeding tubes, and that alone should not be classified as artificially extending life. However, Terri Schiavo in all likelihood will never improve, and will never recover even basic mental capabilities. In that case, it can be decided that it's best to let her body finish dying.

You are continuing to base your "opinion" on unproved, unprovable information. If what you say is true, then the Schiavo's should have NO FEAR from letting her get the best care possible for a denoted period of time, rehabilitation included, to SEE and PROVE they are right. But Michael Schiavo will NOT do that . . . Why? That ALONE should cause doubt in anyone's mind.

His spousal rights should be terminated, if nothing else, she should be made a ward of the state, and EVERYTHING possible should be attempted for a certain period of time, and if after THAT she has not improved one iota, then her feeding tube/hydration tube should be left in, but NO further medical intervention should be attempted. When she gets the next infection or complication, her life would end without treatment, and AT LEAST she would then die with dignity, not in the throws of starvation and thirst.

[Warlady]

I second what HS suggested. There can be only one reason why Michael Schiavo dosen't want Terri to regain her speech.

[2nd_Amendment]

I am amazed at the desperation the Death Merchants exhibit in this case. From The High Road, where I've been arguing with the would-be murderers for a few days now:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=130695

There's some good links in that thread for anyone who wants more info...if you can get past the emotional demands for death from some of the dumber members.

[Warlady]

2nd Thank GOD you are on our side. The side of life. For those who believe they should "let the poor woman die," I just don't believe you have all the facts. I also don't believe you are thinking it through to its end. Also note who IS on your side: The liberals, lefties, liberal Democrats and Libertarians.

[Warlady]

Oh 2A, I love the first post. The SCOTUS has ruled that it is unconstitutional to inflict the death penalty on retarded citizens who have committed heinous crimes but they can inflict death on innocent Terri Schiavo. What is wrong with this picture???????? Now THE SCOTUS WON'T EVEN HEAR HER PLEA FOR LIFE.

[2nd_Amendment]

People like you are exactly why more people aren't pro-life in this country -- because they rightfully see many of the pro-lifers as whackos. You give the rest of us a bad name.

Funny. It's always appeared to me the bad name comes from those unwilling to make a clear stand, who hem and haw and couch their words in pleasantries so as not to offend the murderers, at whatever level they may be at, in any way.

And talk about Christianity -- evidently you're not familiar with the Bible or the part where it says a child leaves their parents to become one with their spouse. Someone should deal with you in a swift and vicious manner.

And what does the Bible have to say about a man who takes up with another woman and spawns bastards along the way while still married to the wife? Only Mikey can give Terri a dissolution of marriage. The law won't allow it from her end. And yet he keeps both ends of the candle burning and people like you tout his "rights"? The only one who really needs "dealt with" is Mikey Schiavo himself.

Blowback, thanks for standing up to agree with me against all these folks that don't like to be disagreed with.

I keep hearing this on various boards. Problem is it's the death merchants who keep demanding only their view is correct and then bad mouth everyne who disagrees with that unsupportable opinion. Kinda like here...

[Warlady]

I wonder if IFocus is aware of Blowback's feelings about Ann Coulter? Would he then so eagerly join hands with him?

[Warlady]

Posted by Ifocus: Terri Schiavo is being kept alive artificially

That is your very first statement in your post Ifocus. That is a total and utter falsehood. She is not being kept alive by artificial means. Do you have any idea what the difference is in artificial life support and basic needs? I suggest you learn the difference because it's very obvious to this nurse that you don't. Christopher Reeve was kept alive for 8+ years with life support. He also had tube feedings and hydration. But his biggest life support system was his resperator/ventilator. Without that he would not have lived. None of us can live without food and water. Those are basic life sustaining needs other than oxygen. Terri Schaivo needs no help with breathing. She needs no help with voiding or defacating except for clean up. She is as alive as you or I except for her mental disability. She is NOT BRAIN DEAD. SHE IS NOT IN A COMA. She recognizes her family and responds to stimuli both pleasant and painful. She is not suffering except for when he husband manages to get a judge to pull her feeding and hydration tubes. She is in no pain. She is no threat to anyone. She has a family that loves and adores her, except for one....Michael. No one knows for sure how her brain got damaged but her parents have a very good idea. It wouldn't be the first time a husband beat his wife half to death. It is my opinion that the reason Michael Schaivo turned down that million dollars to save her is because he knows that her speech can be rehabilitated. HE HAS BEEN TOLD THAT BY A SPEECH THERAPIST. If she regains her speech she can implicate him and he would lose his freedom and all that insurance money. This is not rocket science. But the big picture here folks is the precedent this sets for anyone with a disability. This is one slippery slope I don't think America should go down. How many stories have you heard about brain damaged patients coming back? Or coma patients waking up? What if technology raced ahead of Terri and they kill her and then find the cure? This is nonsense. We cannot sit for this. NOT IN AMERICA.

[Rink]

Bravo Warlady!!! Well Said!!! :claps: :thumb: :claps:

[Warlady]

IFocus in case you didn't catch this earlier, I told the story about my Mom having to have a feeding tube the last 5 years of her life. Without it she would have died. She didn't want to die and we didn't want her to die. She didn't have much quality of life then but she WANTED TO LIVE. It's in our nature to want to live. She didn't recognize me half the time but half the time she did and we got so much joy from our visits. Are you wanting to write everyone off that has to live on a feeding tube or just those who are retarded?

[Warlady]

Thanks Rink. You're doing well in this debate also. I'm proud of you.

[Rink]

Thank you Brenda. :thumb:

This whole thing has been terribly upsetting to me.

Because I know firsthand just how wrong 'experts' can be when it comes to things such as this and of Terry's mental faculties.

They were wrong with me and I KNOW they're on purpose wrong with Terry.

I just pray to God she's saved soon from that 'husband' and her care given over to her parents who love her.

[Kathy29]

Terri Schiavo is not hooked up to machines. She periodically as a feeding tube attached.

I sincerely think that yes, Christopher Reeve, who could not eat, speak or walk on his own, Stephen Hawking, and many others would now be dead if the death proponents had their way.

[Warlady]

ifocus said,


Well let’s see: she can’t walk, she can’t talk, she can’t feed herself,

Ifocus, there are a few million people that meet that criteria. Are you advocating we execute them all? Because "execute" is exactly what the Florida government is doing to Terri.

[DesertFox]

That criterion would mandate killing all babies.

[2nd_Amendment]

A note on Michael Schiavo's "credibility": Had he started a new "family" in the face of any other massive medical issue, say a Christopher Reeve scenerio, his ass would have already been marched through divorce court and this issue would be moot. He gets to continue to claim aggrieved spouse and victim here only by a "stroke of luck", for want of a better term.

[Riverboat]

Starving is a horrible way to die and they wouldn't let you do it to an animal without legal action, much less a human. Here's something I came across this morning in the Houston Chronicle, not exactly a right-wing publication:

The general process of death for patients whose food and hydration tubes are withdrawn:

Day one: The percutaneous endoscopic gastrotomy tube, which is placed through the skin and into the stomach, is removed in a simple surgical procedure. Patients who do not have mental cognition to have a sense of thirst or hunger will not be uncomfortable.

Days three to four: Urine output decreases and patients begin to lose normal body secretions. The mouth begins to look dry and the eyes appear sunken. Patients will look thinner because the body tissues have lost fluid. Their heart rate goes up and their blood pressure goes down. In some patients, dehydration releases endorphins in the brain that create a state of euphoria.

Days five to 10: People who are alert have a marked decrease in their alertness. Respiration becomes irregular with periods of very fast and then very slow breathing. Some patients will become restless, while others will be less active. For patients in a persistent vegetative state, there may be no discernible change in their movements.

Days 10 to death: Patients do not appear to respond their environment at all and may appear to be in a coma. Length of death process is determined by how well-nourished patient was and how much body fat and fluid they had when procedure began. May show outward signs of dehydration, such as extremely dry skin. Kidney function declines and toxins begin accumulating in the body. Toxins cause respiratory muscles to fail. Multiple organ systems begin to fail.

Source: LifePath Hospice/ Houston Chronicle – 3/19/05

[Maggie_T]

Ifocus, there are a few million people that meet that criteria. Are you advocating we execute them all? Because "execute" is exactly what the Florida government is doing to Terri.

Quadruplegics fill Ifocus' description of Terri, except that they can talk. So. Should we put them to death, too?

[Wolfcounsel]

Impale these anti-life clowns so that they slowly expire. When they cannot stand it any longer, pull the stick out of their butts and ask them if it felt good to be killed slowly.

[DoctorDoom]

Time to don the target shirt again. Fire away!

I have seen little if any objective evidence that supports the rhetoric that has inflamed this subforum. What I HAVE seen is a plethora of claims that have not stood up in any court where they have been presented. What I HAVE seen is subjective websites being cited as authoritative. What I HAVE seen is doctors and judges being compared to Joseph Mengele. What I HAVE seen is unsupported assumptions that such and such people are monsters, based on nothing but biased sources. What I HAVE seen is the summary dismissal of evidence that Michael Schiavo is something less than a f*king demon from the foulest pits of hell. What I HAVE seen is politicians milking it for votes, and the media reveling in the sensationalism. What I HAVE seen is raw emotionalism that doesn't give a shit for what the unfortunate Ms. Schiavo might be experiencing, if anything.

I have seen claims that such and such experts could bring her out of the twilight world in which she is imprisoned, but no scientific evidence to justify that assertion. I have seen claims that treatment was withheld that could have rehabilitated her, but no evidence other than allegations that it was in fact denied, or that it would have done one useful thing.

I have seen statements that such a death will be painful, even though the medication exists to render that meaningless. However, I have seen no consideration of the possibility that she might have been in pain for the last 15 years and had no way to express it.

I have seen in abundance a demand that she be kept alive for an interminable period because the idea appeals to the emotions. This whole issue has become a damned melodrama.

What I have NOT seen is concrete, objective evidence to support the passion for keeping this woman alive for another several decades attached to tubes and responding to touch as the extent of "consciousness". There is not a soul on this board that would change places with her, but there is not an instant's hesitation to condemn her to a condition that none of us would want for ourselves.
____________________________________________

This is certainly a gold-medal hot-button issue. Being human, I can appreciate the emotions that drive much of what is being posted here, and part of me entertains a slim hope that something IS possible to end this tale happily. However, after 62 years I'm a realist. I don't believe in magic nor in a medical miracle appearing out of nowhere. There is no objective evidence whatever that her state will be improved or CAN be improved.

Medical tests that have stated that her brain is damaged beyond salvaging are routinely scorned and rejected, as would be any new tests that found the same thing. However, medical science is based on what IS, not on what one HOPES. If the findings do not agree with what one wants them to be, that does not invalidate them.

My conclusion is that there are many emotions and opinions surrounding this matter, but one thing that is conspicuously absent is love. There's not a trace of it present on either side in Florida. It has become a game of "SCREW YOU! NO, SCREW YOU!" with Terri as the hapless, helpless pawn being screwed by both sides.

I would be gratified to see God take Terri home to be free at last from her prison of the flesh, and to hell with the involved parties and the three-ring political/media circus that has been built up around it.

And if speaking my mind with contrary views on this subject makes me a Grade A, insensitive, inconsiderate, f*cking asshole worthy of a protracted death by torture, then so be it. I really and truly don't give a shit!

[Wolfcounsel]

Three hundred milligrams of potassium chloride injected into her veins will cause her to go to peaceful sleep and rest for all eternity.

[Rink]

Why not leave this up to the Federal Courts as a Constitutional issue then ???

That woman is not dying, she is not terminal, she is healthy all she needs is a feeding tube, nothing more other than basic care to keep her clean and comfortable, she is NOT in a PVC state, she is NOT brain dead, she is not terminal she is NOT on life support so your arguments that everyone here is all emotional and blinded by that emotion is moot, this is a Constitutional Issue Doc this should be under review in the federal Courts as terry schiavo last I knew is an American Citizen!!!

And American Citizens should ALL have the right of Due Process of Law, this is something the Florida Courts have consistently Denied!!!

[RuffhouseFarm]

"Medical tests that have stated that her brain is damaged beyond salvaging are routinely scorned and rejected, as would be any new tests that found the same thing. However, medical science is based on what IS, not on what one HOPES. If the findings do not agree with what one wants them to be, that does not invalidate them."

If you would read the NRO article that includes the statements of over thirty neurologists, more than half who are board-certified (a distinction which requires an extraordinary level of proficiency), you would realize that your understanding of this important point is not accurate. There are other documents, including affidavits from a large number of doctors, disputing your conclusion.

The court reviews have been procedural, not evidentiary.

[DoctorDoom]

Well, being an asshole, I have divergent opinions.

[DoctorDoom]

And BTW, would any of you three be willing to swap places with her to give her a productive life? I damned well wouldn't, but I don't want to see her condemned to more years of that "life".

[Rink]

Well, being an asshole, I have divergent opinions.

So I see lol

[Rink]

And BTW, would any of you three be willing to swap places with her to give her a productive life? I damned well wouldn't.

THAT's Your personal opinion, terry schiavo has the Right of Dure Process just like ANY American Citizen of this country has, and she should have that right upheld!!

If the federal courts see fit to rule in the favor of Michael schiavo then every option will then be exhausted and her rights will have been thoroughly reviewed and ruled on.

Are you afraid of the federal Courts to review this case and make sure terry Schiavo's rights are not violated?

[DoctorDoom]

Y'all may now resume your arguments with no further input from VTY.

[Rink]

whuts VTY?

[Wolfcounsel]

"And BTW, would any of you three be willing to swap places with her to give her a productive life?" --DoctorDoom


What three? I already said potassium chloride will do the trick. I may have the dose wrong. I'm not Dr. Mengele, you know.

VTY = Very truly yours, Rink.

[Rink]

and to answer Docs question HELL YES I would be willing to trade my place and my health to let terry schiavo live, EVERYONE has a right to live, and their lives end is up to God and God alone.

I know full well just how miserable death and end-of-life can be, I've seen enough of it from Lung cancer to that of devastating strokes, believe me I KNOW I've seen it with my own eyes and I have seen the immense suffering from both diseases, I know life isnt gonna always be easy God never said it would BE easy I know that with life there will be death But Who are we to make decisions over someone else's life??

From what I've seen from my dad and my granmother I STILL despite the terror of the idea of loosing my faculties or suffering from cancer I STILL will choose life no matter what, as my life is up to God's hands ALONE, nobody elses, it is NOT up to anyone elses right to decide.

This woman needs care only, she is relatively healthy she is not in pain, she isnt in misery, she isnt terminal, she has a right to live her life till God calls her home, as thats the way it should be.

Doc I have seen my father die slowly of Lung cancer, I saw him go from a stout healthy man into skin and bones, i watched his pain I saw his struggle on the day he died. and believe you me it terrifies me that death can be like that but STILL I will never cop out and take the 'easy' route and ask for someone to kill me before the misery hits, that is NOT my decision, that is up to GOD alone, as again God never said Life was gonna be a bed of roses and be easy, its gonna be filled with pain and suffering even if we dont deserve it.

Its LIFE and with life we ALL face death eventually. but NOBODY has the right to decide someone elses life or death!! Not when they are innocent.

This woman has the right of Due Process at LEAST that!!!!

If that cannot be had, then Woe to this nation! as we will have fallen Damned far!!

And be very afraid of your own life and rights, as if they can deny one American Ciutizen their Constitutional right and due process under the law of the Constitution when deciding such matters then they too can do so with YOU!

[Wolfcounsel]

There is no due process for murder. Only capital punishment involves due process. Or did some clowns twist the Constitution into a pretzel when I wasn't looking?

[Rink]

Every criminal in America has Judicial review, every criminal in this nation gets the right of due process, but here we have an American Citizen who is NOT a criminal and her right of Judicial review is being denied, as well as her right of due process is also being denied.

Do we as American Citizens want this to happen???????

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

Time to don the target shirt again. Fire away!

I have seen little if any objective evidence that supports the rhetoric that has inflamed this subforum. What I HAVE seen is a plethora of claims that have not stood up in any court where they have been presented.

If this were any issue besides this one, which you decided your views on months ago, you would be highly suspicious of the courts. Forgive us for still having our doubts.



What I HAVE seen is subjective websites being cited as authoritative.

When formal reports are so one-sided, and allegations, with some proof, abound, a person has nowhere else to return.

What I HAVE seen is doctors and judges being compared to Joseph Mengele.

Let's see, pro-euthanasia doctors on the stand... ACLU supported lawyers... hmm.. Judges who seem to get cozy with the previous two groups... Gee. I WONDER why we might make certain comments about them...

What I HAVE seen is the summary dismissal of evidence that Michael Schiavo is something less than a f*king demon from the foulest pits of hell.

Let's see, do you disagree that he's an adulterer? Let's start with that issue and go from there.

What I HAVE seen is politicians milking it for votes, and the media reveling in the sensationalism.

Ah, yes, those politicians MUST be milking it for votes, after all, they couldn't be doing it because they really believe in it, right? Bush is just a con-man, right? As for the media, have you even watched their reports? They're milking it because they want the "right-to-die" expanded to include right-to-kill.


I have seen in abundance a demand that she be kept alive for an interminable period because the idea appeals to the emotions. This whole issue has become a damned melodrama.

Yes, emotions play a part, but there's also plenty of reason to doubt the legitimacy of what's being done here, so I frankly don't care, as I'm not going to stand by and see a woman murdered at the permission of the state in such a manner.



And if speaking my mind with contrary views on this subject makes me a Grade A, insensitive, inconsiderate, f*cking asshole worthy of a protracted death by torture, then so be it. I really and truly don't give a shit!

Figures, and your opinion on this issue is just as important to me.

[RuffhouseFarm]

And BTW, would any of you three be willing to swap places with her to give her a productive life? I damned well wouldn't, but I don't want to see her condemned to more years of that "life".

She may not be condemned to more years of that life, although twelve years of abject neglect may have taken its toll on her capability to respond as favorably to proper treatment and therapy as she did before Schiavo won the malpractice suit and then immediately stopped mher medical treatment. The point on this aspect of the case is that it's unknown what her capabilities are. They know Terri swallows her own saliva, but Schiavo and Greer won't allow a procedural swallow test to see if she can eat or drink on her own. They won't allow any of the tests, examinations or treatment that would ascertain her true condition or her capabilities. Greer has denied the voluminous number of motions and petitions from the Schindlers to make these assessments. Board-certified neurologists are appalled at the lack of proper assessment and treatment. I've also read some literature prepared by reputable neurologists that questions PVS as a legitimate diagnosis in general. The doctor who made the diagnosis is affiliated with Felos and Wolfson in their right-to-die business. He doesn't treat patients and has no practice. He goes around the country making this diagnosis in right-to-die cases and then gives testimony. He's had numerous malpractice suits against him. He is known as "Dr.Death".

No, I wouldn't swap places with her to give her a productive life, but I will do what I can to see that there's an opportunity to discover if it's possible that she have one. There are so many treatments and therapies available for these people. Many traumatic brain injured people have recovered and are fully cognizant, walking, eating, talking and some even work and drive. I believe we must err on the side of life and opportunity.

The first step in making those appraisals is to extract her from the clutches of Schiavo, Greer, Felos and the other less central antagonists.

[Apollo5600]

I don't agree with Doom, though there is a part of me that thinks concerning my behavior on this matter "Is this what it is like to be a liberal?"

[Taylor]

Christopher Reeve was worse off then Terri Schaivo is after he fell off a horse. He spent the rest of his life on a resperator because he was no longer able to breathe on his own. He had to be fed through a feeding tube. He couldn't move his arms or legs. I suppose you think he should have been starved to death. It's too bad he didn't live long enough to speak out about Terri Schaivo. I suspect he would support her right to live. He was even hopeful he would be able to walk again someday but unfortunately he didn't live to see that day. There are millions of people with disabilities who are on a feeding tube for food and water. I suppose you think they should be murdered. I suppose you think all people who are physically disabled are Mentally Retarded and therefore should me murdered. You claim to be pro-life but you think Terri should be murdered. I suppose you think babies should be miurdered too. Terri is NOT in a coma. She is ALERT and AWAKE. She can breathe on her own. She just has to rely on a feeding tube to live just like millions of other disabled people. Liberals claim they care about the disabled. If this was true, why do they support murdering the disabled? This is nothing but cold blooded murder.

[DoctorDoom]

An unfeeling asshole's monologue follows.

This world sucks. It has sucked since the fall of man. Its sucks because it is overwhelmed with evil of every description. And one thing that I have learned in my 40 years of being an adult is that I am just one person facing a world saturated with evil, horror, cruelty, and injustice.

Were I to allow myself to be worked into a lather by every example of evil in the world, I'd soon perish of sleep deprivation. How, then, do I survive when I ache to go out and right all the wrong and know that I can't? Simple: I admit to myself that I can't do a thing about the overwhelming majority of it. Not one gawddamned thing.

When I read of children starving to death by the thousands every day, it grieves me as a dad and granddad. And I know that I can at most help a few. What can I do about the rest of those precious little ones who waste away and die? Not one gawddamned thing.

When I read of little ones being exploited by child pornographers, it cuts me to the heart. But what can I do to stop it? Not one gawddamned thing.

When I read of women being battered by drunken or drugged husbands or male "friends", it makes me want to go and do likewise to the bastards. But what can I do about it in the real world? Not one gawddamned thing.

When I see the violence and filth that are pervasive in what passes for entertainment, I want to march on Unholywood and start kicking ass. I can protest it, and I can boycott it, but what can I do to stop it? Not one gawddamned thing.

And when I see situations such as is going on in Florida, I damned well don't like it. But realistically, what can I do about it? Not one gawddamned thing.


Frustration is a bitch, isn't it? The difference, people, is that I have learned in 62 trips around the sun that feeding and dwelling on frustration just exacerbates it. I therefore acknowledge that it is counterproductive to be overwhelmed with anger or sorrow or bitterness over things about which I cannot do a gawddamned thing.

And because I refuse to allow myself to be overwhelmed by the emotion of the issue, I am deemed an evil, uncaring, heartless son of a bitch. C'est la vie.

Vent to your heart's content. It's cathartic. And by all means try to prevent it, if you believe it will help. But eventually it will come to light that you, like me, can't do anything about it. Not one gawddamned thing.

And tomorrow and the day after and the day after that, the sun will rise on a world that is as evil as it was yesterday, if not more so, and what will have changed because of our frustration and anger? Not one gawddamned thing.


The only thing that gives me hope is that God is not pacing the floor in Heaven wailing, "What am I going to do now?" The time will come (quite soon, I expect) when evil will be avenged.

If you believe in God, pray for His will to be done in Florida. That's the one thing we CAN do.

The end.

[iFocusNews.com]

And during this time, did your mother have irreparable damage to her cerebral cortex that would keep her bed-ridden for the rest of her 'life', unable to do anything other than make a few noises?

I still haven't heard from anyone that attests they would be OK with living like this...

[RuffhouseFarm]

I haven't called you uncaring or evil. I'm just afraid that you've missed the underlying odiousness of this case.

Adding the evil of state-sanctioned euthanasia to your valid litany of post-modern cultural and political garbage we contend with doesn't improve the mix, though.

I'm not in an emotional lather. I don't "do" emotional lather. I'm usually accused of dispassionate bluntness. :thumb:

[Rink]

I just pray her rights will be upheld here in this fight, as if it isnt upheld, be afraid, be very afraid, as the next person whose rights are trampled on will be YOU.

Doc you arent a heatless person, you're just as human as the rest of us, I am worried peoples rights will not be upheld and their right to due process be denied, that is what worried me more than anything, but also, she has a right to live till God calls her home, irregardless of what condition she's in, she deserves to be cared for the best way possible.

Untill God calls her home her life should not be snuffed out by someone who is biased in favor of her death, her husband and others supporting him.

THATS scarey to see the state-sanctioned murder happening in this day and age.

Once upon a time Life in America was thought to be precious enough to be upheld, the innocent the right of due process.

Doc you talk about things that have gone on around the world, things happen like that around the world but it doesnt mean they have to happen Here in America and injustice should NOT be tolerated in America.

Especially not in America where we are supposed to be the free-est nation on earth.

[Rink]

And during this time, did your mother have irreparable damage to her cerebral cortex that would keep her bed-ridden for the rest of her 'life', unable to do anything other than make a few noises?

I still haven't heard from anyone that attests they would be OK with living like this...

You're such an 'expert' arent you?

Where's your PH.d?? wheres your doctorate smartass.

[iFocusNews.com]

Christopher Reeve was NOT worse off than Schiavo -- he still had his mind, which is the most invaluable human asset. His injury didn't stop him from becoming a champion of his cause and an inspirational hero.

If Schiavo is what you call alert, God help those who aren't alert.

[RuffhouseFarm]

And during this time, did your mother have irreparable damage to her cerebral cortex that would keep her bed-ridden for the rest of her 'life', unable to do anything other than make a few noises?

I still haven't heard from anyone that attests they would be OK with living like this...

That's beside the point. Let's find out what this little lady's true condition and ability to improve are before we fret about irreparable damage. It was known that she was improving until the therapy stopped. I'll leave it to your vast reasoning skills to go to reach for the next logical thought.

[iFocusNews.com]

You're such an 'expert' arent you?

Where's your PH.d?? wheres your doctorate smartass.

Nice way to refute my argument and make a total ass of yourself.

[Rink]

You act like you know o so much better than the rest of us unwashed about terry schiavo's medical condition

[iFocusNews.com]

Every criminal in America has Judicial review, every criminal in this nation gets the right of due process, but here we have an American Citizen who is NOT a criminal and her right of Judicial review is being denied, as well as her right of due process is also being denied.

Do we as American Citizens want this to happen???????

Hey moron -- I guess you didn't notice that this has been going on for seven years. I'd say everyone squeezed their due process in.

[RuffhouseFarm]

Christopher Reeve was NOT worse off than Schiavo -- he still had his mind, which is the most invaluable human asset. His injury didn't stop him from becoming a champion of his cause and an inspirational hero.

If Schiavo is what you call alert, God help those who aren't alert.

How do you know what goes on in Terri's mind? Just because Reeve could speak and terri doesn't well enough to be understood makes his life more valuable? Reeve couldn't breathe on his own. Terri can. Reeve wasn't a traumatic brain injury patient anyway, so I don't understand what he has to do with this. The difference as I see it is that the lefties protect one of their own because he was able to speak out for the slaughter of embryoes for stem cell research so they grieve their loss of his voice, whereas a woman who is being protected by pro-lifers is an enemy to be put down like a rabid skunk.

[Rink]

Um no they havent squeezed their due process in when Michael Schiavo has all but forbidden any outside independent review of terry schiavo's health to be VERY absolutely certain without a shadow of a doubt she is in a PVC state.

he does not want any other view other than his own

Ok question time, what is the problem here?

This woman is NOT terminal, she is not in pain her family wants to care for her, they have done their level best to do so despite the fact that Michael schiavo has hindered, hampered and done his best to not allow any kind of rehabilitation when he got an award money FOR her rehabilitation.

WHY hasnt he used her money for rehabilitation?

If she is in such a PVC state then it should not be a huge issue to bring in someone outside this whole issue and allow an independend review of her condition, to be certain of the facts presented here.

Why hasnt Michael schiavo so dead set against this whole thing then??

YOU answer this question k?

[iFocusNews.com]

whereas a woman who is being protected by pro-lifers is an enemy to be put down like a rabid skunk..

I'm not sure where I mentioned that she was a rabid skunk that needed to be put down... but OK...

So then tell me, would you like to be alive in that state?

[american kid]

Yes, I would. I would not want to be starved to death. However, if I was being a financial burden to my family, then no, I would'nt want to die. Terri, however is being paid for by taxes.

[american kid]

You obviously are qutie an ignorant person to think that she deserves to die.

[iFocusNews.com]

You obviously are qutie an ignorant person to think that she deserves to die.

I'm aware, kid -- it's been made quite clear to me that anyone who disagrees on this bored is ignorant.

[tacitus]

Somehow I think you all ignored the most important part of my post.

HER CEREBRAL CORTEX IS LIQUID.

It's not a matter of communication, or levels of intelligence or functioning. She is physically incapable of higher brain functions.



So what!

[Wolfcounsel]

"...it's been made quite clear to me that anyone who disagrees on this bored is ignorant." --iFocusNews.com

Actually, anyone who is for the murder of Terri would choke a chicken mercilessly.

[Shadow]

This whole thing is ridiculous. She is not brain dead. She is not hooked to a respirator. She actually has limited swallowing ability and limited responsiveness (heck, she smiles). What is happening is quite simple. Her life is being devalued based on her condition and the process of starving her to death has begun. Utterly dispicable IMO.

[Shadow]

I glad that Sarah Scantlin wasn't starved to death.

[jag]

I'm aware, kid -- it's been made quite clear to me that anyone who disagrees on this bored is ignorant.

Naw, just you :D

[jag]

Y'all may now resume your arguments with no further input from VTY.

You lied :D

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

I should clarify something before I begin my post. The title of this thread is "Let the Poor Woman Die Already" --- she has been allowed to die, but her body (her mind? her will? her soul?) will not allow it. Her life has not been sustained, merely maintained. She has been free to die since the time all life support equipment was removed and pure medical intervention discontinued. Food and water are NOT life support (see my post below).

Let's get truly unemotional here, and look at things.


1. Terri's ONLY life-sustaining need is food and water. That is NOT life support -- any and all people need food and water. If you withhold it from any of us, physically able-bodied people, we will die too. Ergo, food and water CANNOT be considered life support, they are intrinsic basic life needs for our species as a whole.

2. IF the Schiavo's true desire is to allow Terri to die with dignity, WHY are they persisting down the avenue of starvation and thirst? Why not seek legal standing to "put her down" with a medical solution? Surely a slight overdose of any of a number of drugs would result in a peaceful, quick passing. This is MUCH more merciful and humane than starvation and dehydration.

3. As for the legal, there are several points which should cause ANYone to go hmmmm -- on both sides of the case. For this reason ALONE, a new judicial view is not only necessary, but prudent.

4. In this country, by the very first document we were founded on, our right to life is acknowledged as unalienable and given not of or by man but of and by a Creator (not arguing points of God here). The DoI does NOT say, we are granted an unalienable right to QUALITY of life, or even a CERTAIN QUALITY of life -- just life itself. This includes lives like that of Terri Schiavo -- whether WE would want to live like that or not. Until, and unless, the Supreme Court Rules what constitutes "life", this will always remain a gray area. Reasonable doubt exists.


5. There are no written instructions or wishes from Terri Schiavo herself. That fact ALONE, should have stopped this whole thing right at the tracks. When in doubt, don't. There is NO WAY to eliminate reasonable doubt in this case, absolutely no way.

6. Humans are not infallible. We cannot predict the future. Many who died just 50 years ago, if faced with their problems today would have lived because of the advancements in medical technology. The fact is, and should always remain, life deserves the benefit of the doubt. If there is even but the slightest chance this woman has any quality of life at all, she should be allowed to do so, period. REGARDLESS of what you or I want or feel is in her best interest. She is now alive -- she breathes, her heart beats, her brain DOES function or the other systems in her body would shut down. We do not know for a VERIFIABLE fact that this woman is not trapped inside of her own mind, unable (probably due to the withholding of rehabilitative action) to communicate her will or desire to live, OR EVEN not live.

7. The only thing driving this case is the husband's desire to be free of the wife, period. If it wasn't, he could stop all of the speculation by terminating his rights to Terri -- divorce her. Her parents obviously desire to take care of their daughter. His motives cannot be viewed as altruistic when he stands to gain monetarily. We can only judge him by his actions, which have spoken volumes. He is living with another woman and has had children with her -- these are not the actions of a devoted husband.
If Michael Schiavo wants to put this whole thing to bed, he merely needs to divorce Terri and be done with the situation. That he won't do that, again speaks volumes to the case.

There really is no need to get emotional -- the facts really do speak for themselves. I am absolutely proud my Congress and my President upheld the right to life.

[jag]

If Schiavo is what you call alert, God help those who aren't alert.

Lets hope so......

iFocusNews.com 03-21-2005, 06:47 AM
Re: Memo to Hillary: What Happened to "IT TAKES A VILLAGE"?

I didn't realize it was in this room, I thought it was just the politics room... But I meant it with regards to the addage.

[Incident_command]

I don't think Terri will improve.
I don't think her husband caused her condition.
I don't think her husband will get rich from her death.
I know I wouldn't want to live like that.
Still, my big problems with this are
1 We don't know for sure what Terri would want.
2 While I don't think he caused the condition she is in, I don't trust her husband.
3 There are people who want and will except the role of caretaker and strongly desire to care for her.
4 This could be the start of a bad practice.
5 I dont think Terri is suffering at this point.

I have lots of experience with brain trauma from my career and past family happenings. My father went into cardiac arrest and suffered anoxia during resuscitation. He suffered massive brain damage and lived for 3 months. It was terrible to see him like that. He was conscious and alert but unable to communicate in any way. He couldn't eat, talk, or follow any basic commands. We never had to make a decision other than what lengths to take should he go back into cardiac arrrest. Which he did after 3 months and died.
In my mind he died after his first heart attack. At that point it was good God took him

3 years ago a 12 year old girl was hit by a car in front of my fire station. She had no respirations and all the signs of massive head injuries including pupils that were fixed and dilated and a Glosgow Coma Scale of 0. We had to cut an airway into her throat so she could breath and decompress her right chest to keep her airway patent.About as bad as you can get on scene. For 5 months she had no progress and her family was faced with tough decisions seeing her condition hadn't improved. To make a long story short less than two months later she walked into our staion to thank us.I never would have thought she had any chance to improve.

Point is you never know.Let her live.She not a burden while there are so many people who want her.When God thinks enough is enough He'll take her. He sure doesn't need our help.

[jag]

1 We don't know for sure what Terri would want.

2 While I don't think he caused the condition she is in, I don't trust her husband.


1. Right, thats the entire point of the whole debate. Best to error on the side of life.

2. Care to explain?

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

Long post by HomeschoolrsRUs

Excellent post!

[Warlady]

Originally Posted by DoctorDoom
And BTW, would any of you three be willing to swap places with her to give her a productive life? I damned well wouldn't.


That's not even a fair question. It's not about us. It's about her life and her right to it. And anyone else in her situation. That includes Down's syndrome babies, head injury patients like Christopher Reeves, mentally challenged and on and on..... This is about the RIGHT TO LIFE. This country is on a slippery slope. Thank God for Republicans.

[DesertFox]

The thing that bothers me is that Schiavo (him) doesn't have to inconvenience himself in the slightest for her to go on as she is, and it costs him nothing at all. Her parents are willing to do whatever needs doing. Far as I'm concerned he's being a shit.

[RuffhouseFarm]

The thing that bothers me is that Schiavo (him) doesn't have to inconvenience himself in the slightest for her to go on as she is, and it costs him nothing at all. Her parents are willing to do whatever needs doing. Far as I'm concerned he's being a shit.

Follow the money.

[Wolfcounsel]

I still think the husband overdosed Terri with insulin or potassium chloride. My opinion only. I'll bet Terri knows what happened.

[RuffhouseFarm]

I still think the husband overdosed Terri with insulin or potassium chloride. My opinion only. I'll bet Terri knows what happened.

On five occasions a nurse suspected just that, having previously found an empty insulin syringe under or near Terri's bed after coming into the room and finding Schiavo, who immediately ordered her out of the room, standing over her in darkness. In each case, she immediately tested Terri's blood level after he left and found a drastic imbalance of blood sugar and insulin.

[Wolfcounsel]

I don't think any crime is perfect, and if that's the case with Terri, I'll bet the husband is sh*tting his pants right now.

[Riverboat]

On five occasions a nurse suspected just that, . .
I would LOVE to have the source of that valuable piece of information. I've been going back and forth on another site about this, and that would be quite an explosive bit of ammo to throw.

[RuffhouseFarm]

Yeah. Neither he nor the rest of the gang can afford for Terri to come to her senses.

[RuffhouseFarm]

How can anyone think without a doubt that her husband did not do anything to aid her in being in this condition? I read some of the links put out here. Apparently there were injuries that had been healed to some point but definately caused by some kind of trauma as if she was beaten. I think he did do something to put her in this place she is in. I pray each and every day that GOD will help her through this regardless of the feeding tubes being removed.. miracles do happen and i pray for one now.

I would like nothing more than to see her be able to communicate and tell the story of what exactly did happen. I also read somewhere that what she is going through is pretty much the way a person that had been strangled becomes.

Regardless,, this is murder plain and simple. Now this is even very much different than what people are calling the "euthenasia" law in Oregon.

You have to have a directive signed by you first, then several doctors and you must be of sound mind. You have to be terminal with no chance of survival. I am learning that some that are in this condition when given morphine,, will only throw it up and therefore it won't work. Sometimes an injection is the only way that one can die in comfort. I have been talking to doctors and trying to learn what i can about this. So far there is a huge difference in what is happening to TERRI and what the euthanasia law is about. I keep riding the fence on this.. teetering back and forth. I do feel that those that are indeed terminal and for those that can not take anything in liquid or pill form for many reasons, that might make them comfortable during their journey should not have to suffer. I am back to is the right to die law really the same thing as most people think it is? The more i research it from those that study the law and ethics of medicine, to doctors that are both for it and against it... i keep coming back to the same thoughts of no one should truly suffer in alot of pain if they are terminal and suffering. we do not allow animals to suffer when they are at the end of their lives so should we really allow people to as well? Then again I go back to the fact that there is a path we all must take from birth to death and if it is painful are we supposed to endure that or is GOD understanding in certain situations and forgiving to those that only want relief until it's their time to go and if there is none and in few cases that is becoming apparent.. with technology today is it truly that bad to allow a person of sound mind to be denied that which they have asked for, going through the proper channels? I dunno...

It's a very profound question. God gave us the skills to develop and discover medicines to ease our pain, but surely we have also created biological compounds we'd be better off without ever having discovered. I'm a big believer in pain medication and I also think it is right to ease the pain of a dying animal. But I don't know if speeding our death is what He wants. He gave us dominion over the animals and we are to treat them kindly. But they don't have our understanding of the death process or faith.

[DeclinetoState]

IFocuswhatever said: "And talk about Christianity -- evidently you're not familiar with the Bible or the part where it says a child leaves their parents to become one with their spouse."

You may not be familiar with the commandment that says, "You shall not commit adultery," something Michael Schiavo has done openly for years.

IFocuswhatever also said: "Someone should deal with you in a swift and vicious manner." Meaning what? Murder? There's a commandment that talks about that, too.

IFocuswhatever also said: "People like you are exactly why more people aren't pro-life in this country -- because they rightfully see many of the pro-lifers as whackos. You give the rest of us a bad name." There's also a commandment that says, "You shall now bear false witness." Many Christians (and I'm sure Jews, too) believe that means, "You shall not lie, period." You're not one of them.

[iFocusNews.com]

she has been allowed to die, but her body (her mind? her will? her soul?) will not allow it.

She's being kept alive by doctors, nothing else.

The rest of you: you all seem to have some morbid wishes toward those who disagree with you for supposed 'pro-lifers'. No wonder people stereotype us as whackos.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

It's a very profound question. God gave us the skills to develop and discover medicines to ease our pain, but surely we have also created biological compounds we'd be better off without ever having discovered. I'm a big believer in pain medication and I also think it is right to ease the pain of a dying animal. But I don't know if speeding our death is what He wants. He gave us dominion over the animals and we are to treat them kindly. But they don't have our understanding of the death process or faith.

I totally agree Ruff. We are more than just our "quality of life," as our lives -- regardless of quality -- effect more than just ourselves. Our lives have impact on OTHER lives. I hate to get into the "what if's", because as far as I am concerned life deserves the benefit of the doubt no matter what . . . BUT . . . what if Terri's life is here to be the catalyst for the discovery of some new treatment? Or for someone else to take courage from her fight for life? Or to inspire this nation to return to the culture of life, that was OBVIOUSLY so important to the founding fathers -- so important, that it was delineated in this country's Declaration of Independence from a tyrannical government.

IF this case was about allowing Terri to "die with dignity," Michael Schiavo would be putting forth voluminous litigation to allow her to be humanely euthanized, instead of desiring a slow, painful, inhumane death of starvation and dehydration.

[Wolfcounsel]

"No wonder people stereotype us as whackos." --iFocuson, uh...

You'll get over it.

[RuffhouseFarm]

She's being kept alive by doctors, nothing else.

The rest of you: you all seem to have some morbid wishes toward those who disagree with you for supposed 'pro-lifers'. No wonder people stereotype us as whackos.

She doesn't get medical treatment, per the guardian's order. Doctors don't come to see her. She gets minimal nursing care provided by the hospice.

[iFocusNews.com]

She doesn't get medical treatment, per the guardian's order. Doctors don't come to see her. She gets minimal nursing care provided by the hospice.

I'd say having a feeding tube and being bed-ridden in a hospital for however many years now qualifies as medical treatment.

[RuffhouseFarm]

I'd say having a feeding tube and being bed-ridden in a hospital for however many years now qualifies as medical treatment.

First you said she's being kept alive by doctors. Not true.

Now you change it to "medical treatment." They're not the same thing. If you ever settle on what you really mean, get back to me.

She's not in a hospital. Haven't you been paying attention at all? She's in a hospice.

The bottom line is Terri is being warehoused.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

She's being kept alive by doctors, nothing else.

No, she's not. She's being kept alive, by her will (for lack of better, more specific term). Are you that stubborn and determined she die, that you cannot see food and water IS NOT MEDICAL ATTENTION. We ALL need food and water to live. If she was in the throws of death, food and water WOULDN'T keep her alive. She is NOT on a ventilator, she is NOT on a heart pump. Her kidneys and bowels function (she just needs help cleaning up -- as do babies and many elderly people).


If the pro-death camp believes in the justification of her death SO STRONGLY, let them bring their OWN litigation to allow her to be "put down" humanely. Why do they insist on death by starvation and dehydration? Give a VALID reason why this woman should be starved and dehydrated to death. There is NONE. Nothing can justify this method of death. If death is the desired result there are certainly more humane and merciful ways to do it.


iFocus, I really don't understand being on that side of the fence. This case is no more, and no less, than about the right to life, period. She is already alive -- it matters not if you agree with her "quality of life." Quality has never, ever been granted -- it is NOT an unalienable right -- life is.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

I'd say having a feeding tube and being bed-ridden in a hospital for however many years now qualifies as medical treatment.

Then you'd be wrong. If given the chance, the Schindlers would GLADLY take their daughter home to care for her personally, and see to her maintenance. Actually, there are families all over this great nation whose family members live with them, and they have complete control of their care -- including what you might deem "medical treatment." This argument does NOT justify your cause and case for death by starvation and dehydration.

Why not try giving us YOUR definition of 'life,' as our right is outlined in the Declaration of Independence? I'll wager you cannot do it without referencing QUALITY (of life).

[iFocusNews.com]

Ok Homeschools, so you're saying that you would wish to be kept alive with an all-but destroyed cerebral cortex and in her condition? To each his own, I guess. Were it me, I would just hope someone would be merciful enough to let me die. If that's what you consider life, I'd hate to see death.

[Rink]

You dont know her cerebral cortex is damaged that badly as you say it is, there is no evidence of that, untill there's evidence, rock solid evidence of your assertions and claims STFU kay?

[Wolfcounsel]

"Were it me, I would just hope someone would be merciful enough to let me die." --iFocusNews.com

Would you prefer to die slowly wrapped like a pretzel in a wheel, or would you prefer to be slowly starved and dehydrated?

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

HMS,

From what I have been able to find out thus far if this was in OREGON with the right to die act,,, Michael would not be able to use it for her. It would have to be done by TERRI, she would have had to have signed a paper along with other doctors and be of sound mind. She is not capable of that so therefore that piece of crap husband of hers could not go that route. The right to die in Oregon would protect her from him.

My point EXACTLY magnum! Absent written directives from Terri herself, this is an open and shut case. Michael Schiavo should get out from under this tout-suite, all he has to do is divorce her. This is about his greed, his determination to prevent the truth regarding her condition from ever coming out. It can be viewed as none other.

If he REALLY wanted to convince people of his deep love for Terri, he would have been paying the medical bills himself -- instead of medicaid. He would be paying his own legal bills -- istead of allowing the ACLU to do it for him, "and Terri." And most of all, if he loved her, he would let her go . . . to her parents, who REALLY love her and want to take care of her for her NATURAL life.

[RuffhouseFarm]

Ok Homeschools, so you're saying that you would wish to be kept alive with an all-but destroyed cerebral cortex and in her condition? To each his own, I guess. Were it me, I would just hope someone would be merciful enough to let me die. If that's what you consider life, I'd hate to see death.

She's never had a PET scan or an MRI scan so you don't know shit about her condition. Even though you don't realize it, your question is completely hypothetical and unrelated to this case.

[iFocusNews.com]

You dont know her cerebral cortex is damaged that badly as you say it is, there is no evidence of that

I'd say we've developed the medical technology to scan the brain mate, wouldn't you? Why don't you learn what the cerebral cortex and its functions are, look at Mrs. Schiavo, and then try to tell me that it's not severely and irreparably damaged.

STFU kay?

Thanks for the offer, but I think I'll stay. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sauer/angry-smiley-047.gif

[DeclinetoState]

IFocuswhatever, I see you're from St. Louis. You wouldn't happen to know anything about how the 2000 US Senatorial election got rigged with votes cast and counted long after the polls closed there thanks to suspicious judicial intervention, would you?

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Ok Homeschools, so you're saying that you would wish to be kept alive with an all-but destroyed cerebral cortex and in her condition? To each his own, I guess. Were it me, I would just hope someone would be merciful enough to let me die. If that's what you consider life, I'd hate to see death.

iFocus,
I have been rational, logical, and reasonable. I am doing my best NOT to bring in emotional hot-buttons. Try to stick to the FACTS.

Terri Facts: By every standard and measure, she is alive: She is breathing on her own. Her heart beats on its own. She deficates and urinates on her own. She has wake and sleep cycles. She responds to noise and some stimuli. It has been determined she has limited swallow ability.

Human Facts: ALL people need food and water to live. Babies and some elderly and/or handicapped people cannot feed themselves. Babies and some elderly and/or handicapped people cannot clean themselves up after bowel movements. Babies and some elderly and/or handicapped cannot commuicate by voice, touch, or gesture.

Relevant Facts:
In the Declaration of Independence every person's right to life is acknowledged as granted by the Creator -- not states, nor federal government.

No where is it delineated that a person's "right-to-life" is limited to their "quality-of-life."

We have no way, none whatsoever, of knowing just exactly what Terri's "state of mind" is. We do know there are drugs that can render a person completely immobilized and unable to communicate in any way, shape or form, but their MINDS are quite alert and aware. We have no proof that Terri's mind is in a similar or modified condition.

Unrelated Falsifications: Just because YOU wouldn't want to live that way, or I wouldn't want to live that way, doesn't negate HER RIGHT to life.

Absolute Fact: Life always deserves the benefit of the doubt.

[iFocusNews.com]

Would you prefer to die slowly wrapped like a pretzel in a wheel, or would you prefer to be slowly starved and dehydrated?

I'd prefer being shot in the head, but I'd take the latter rather than living the rest of my 'life' like that...

[RuffhouseFarm]

I'd prefer being shot in the head, but I'd take the latter rather than living the rest of my 'life' like that...

Then God speed it so.

[iFocusNews.com]

This woman has the right of Due Process at LEAST that!!!!

Seven years of court battles isn't indicative of due process?

[Wolfcounsel]

There is NO due process for the murder of an innocent person! I defy any lawyer, clown, or real, to show me where it says so in the Constitution.

[RuffhouseFarm]

Seven years of court battles isn't indicative of due process?

You're going in circles now, resurrecting claims you've already lost. Anyway you've become boring. See ya!

[Bluemoon_Rising]

I'd prefer being shot in the head, but I'd take the latter rather than living the rest of my 'life' like that...

I'd prefer being shot in the head or killed by lethal injection, but since she's not been convicted of a capital crime -- just guilty of inconveniencing us -- I suppose all we can do is starve her to death. Of course, there is the option, which seems to be reasonable enough, that her husband could simply divorce her and allow her family to care for her instead as has been suggest by the latter, or a judge could imply order that her care be turned over to the family and allow that the marriage be legally ended . . . uh, you know, before it is legally ended by her death. I see no reason that any legal precedents should not allow for this arrangement. It is not uncommon for legal precedent to be put aside in special cases, especially when it behooves us to error on the side of preserving human life. All she requires is assistance with acquiring nutrition.

[Rink]

I'd say we've developed the medical technology to scan the brain mate, wouldn't you? Why don't you learn what the cerebral cortex and its functions are, look at Mrs. Schiavo, and then try to tell me that it's not severely and irreparably damaged.



Thanks for the offer, but I think I'll stay. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sauer/angry-smiley-047.gif

OK Where is the rock-solid proof of that medical exam that proves her cerebral cortex is damaged?

Where's the proof? wheres the medical proof that it is other than that of what Michael schiavo's hand-picked doctors say?

Not their word, but solid proof from a medical standpoint?

Why dont they release some of these medical exams to prove their point than just 'saying' its liquified?

[Rink]

Seven years of court battles isn't indicative of due process?

Seven years and you think they should just jettison any other side byt Michael schiavos side and kill the woman off?

Criminals in our court system has had legal battles that spanned into the decades UNTILL their due process has been met yet 7 years is too much for one INNOCENT American woman to have the basic Constitutional right to life Upheld?

Gee it seems Criminals in America have more rights than Innocent American civilians have in getting their due process met.

[DemonRat]

Rink: I haven't seen any doctors dispute the claims about the state of Terri's cerebral cortex, and I looked around quite a bit. If you can find some doctors addressing that specific issue, I'd love to see it, but until then, my assertion has evidence while yours does not.

[RuffhouseFarm]

Rink: I haven't seen any doctors dispute the claims about the state of Terri's cerebral cortex, and I looked around quite a bit. If you can find some doctors addressing that specific issue, I'd love to see it, but until then, my assertion has evidence while yours does not.

Read the new thread "Medical Testing Failures. Read the entire article. Click the link.