University Can't Force Students to Read Koran, Lawsuit Says

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>
University Can't Force Students to Read Koran, Lawsuit Says
By Susan Jones
CNSNews.com Morning Editor (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=\Culture\archive\200207\CUL20 020723a.html)
July 23, 2002

(CNSNews.com) - A pro-family group is suing the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill for requiring students in a mandatory summer reading program to read, discuss and reflect on selected passages from the Koran.
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According to the AFA Center for Law & Policy, incoming freshmen received a postcard from the University telling them they not only had to read the Koran - they also had to take part in mandatory group discussions about the Koran and listen to a CD reciting portions of the Koran in Arabic. The CD included a call to prayer.
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Probably should go in legal, if so I'll move it later.

[DesertFox]

Or education.

In either case, I hope this becomes a loudly-discussed legal decision. Seems to me the govt -- these educrats at public institutions -- forcing students to study the Koran has crossed the line separating church and state. The bastards can't get away with arguing against all things Christian while forcing things Muslim on hapless students.

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Well, North Carolina has really dumbed down, probably the effect of the "Bell Curve" where only the less endowed re-produce.

The grammar schools in our district has better comparative religion studies than these fruit cakes.

[Nemo]

A comparive religion course without the Koran, or the Bible isn't a comparitive religion course.

Students aren't forced to read anything required in a course. They can choose to fail if they want.

Parents trying to stop their children reading an important book like that is sad. Keeping their kids uneducated. And if they succeed in gutting the course they will help keep other parents kids uneducated too.

Love

Roy

[Timberwolf]

OK, Nemo...I want to FORCE you to read the Bible to understand it. Your kids, too. AFTER you've paid your tuition. I don't care whether you wanna do it or not. You must or you fail your entire freshman year.

No? Gee, why not?? images/icons/confused.gif images/icons/confused.gif It's only fitting and proper that you fully understand the tenets behind the foundation of this country.

[Nemo]

I read a lot of books I didn't really want too to get educated. Wrote a lot of essays too.

The Koran is an important book. If a college requires that its students read, reflect and produce some kind of work about it then the students have a simple choice to make.

The same choice I made every time I was set some work.

I see it is a pro-family group. Keeping our college students safe from literature, reflection, discussion and critical thinking. The lawsuit will fail.

Love

Roy

[Hottjohn]

This is a classic example of one of those times I wish I knew then what I know now. I would love to be forced to sit in one of those classes and read the Koran and discuss it. The faculty would be begging me to leave just so that I would not question what they were teaching. UNC has clearly crossed the line. This is exactly what the fathers of our country fought against. It is definitely pushing or forcing a religious worldview on our youth and it is just more indoctrination and other self-serving bull in which some second rate cult is given the moral equivalency of Christianity.

[HarvickFan29]

The book is not required reading. The article clearly states that the student can opt out of it by writing an essay explaining why.

The English professor that is teaching the class was on O'Reilly and he said he doubts anyone will opt out. Most students have an open mind when it comes to learnin'. It is supposed to be why they're there.

Oh, that's all we need, one more lawsuit. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[Maggie_T]

I wouldn't have a problem with this if it wasn't for all those cuckoos who start hyperventilating the moment you mention prayer in school and under God.

I wonder if they'd be equally willing to study the Bible at the same time they pander to the Koran crowd.

Their hypocrisy just gets worse by the day.

Go ahead and sue them, I say.

[DesertFox]

Just so, Mags: It's the hypocrisy that pisses me off. I got no problem studying the Koran. I also got no problem studying the bible. Libs got not problem studying the Koran but refuse to let anyone study the bible.

[MaximumSam]

Clearly, the professor is not trying to induce students to join Islam. As I have said before, education about Islam has suddenly become very important, and how can you educate yourself about Islam without reading the Koran? There is no hypocrisy here - liberals don't want the government influencing religion. Bible study class is then clearly wrong and illegal. However, studying the Bible in an academic setting occurs in public universities every day. Education v. Indoctrination - there is a huge difference.

[Maggie_T]

Ohhhhhhh, education vs. indoctrination, no less. Who wants to bet which of these two descriptions is the Bible placed under by our ever-tolerant academia? (This is not directed at you, Maxi. So spare me your rants, there's a good boy)

[HarvickFan29]

I looked the book up. This might be helpful!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1883991269/qid=1027463626/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-9382166-8386557

[noon23]

I read my synopsis of the Koran on Sept. 11, 2001...

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Max says they study the Bible everyday at Universitys. REQUIRED reading??

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nemo:
A comparive religion course without the Koran, or the Bible isn't a comparitive religion course.

Students aren't forced to read anything required in a course. They can choose to fail if they want.

Parents trying to stop their children reading an important book like that is sad. Keeping their kids uneducated. And if they succeed in gutting the course they will help keep other parents kids uneducated too.

Love

Roy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Roy,
The story says nothing about a comparatie religion course, it talks about a summer reading program.

And it says nothing about choice, it says students were going to be forced to read it.

Now if that is acceptable, to expect kids to read the Koran in school, why is it unconstitutional to expect them to recite the Pledge, with "Under God" or to read; " Endowed by their creator, with certain unalienable rights..."

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Harvick in standard, Randy in bold:

"The book is not required reading. The article clearly states that the student can opt out of it by writing an essay explaining why."

The "opt out" policy was only added about a week or so ago, after a lawsuit became apparent. As the article states: "Although UNC-Chapel Hill did later add an "opt-out" policy".

It was originally MANDATORY that the students read and discuss the Koran, guided by "counselors" who would be sure to steer students away from critical commentary and thought.

This was clearly indoctrination. Harvick, Nemo, and MaxSham, along with the ACLU etc., would be screaming bloody murder if UNC had attempted to mandate Bible reading coupled with carefully "guided" discussions.

The English professor that is teaching the class was on O'Reilly and he said he doubts anyone will opt out. Most students have an open mind when it comes to learnin'. It is supposed to be why they're there.

WRONG! I know a young Christian man who is a rising freshman at UNC this year. He's opting out, along with several others. Harvick (not to mention Nemo and MaxScam) doesn't have the common sense to distinguish between forced indoctrination/"guided discussion" and genuine impartial learning. Unfortunately, they are so open-minded that their brains fell out years ago.

Oh, that's all we need, one more lawsuit.

That's a RIGHT in America, the right to seek redress for grievances. Millions of people in less enlightened countries can only wish they had this important right.

[HarvickFan29]

As I stated, Randy, I saw the professor on O'Reilly a couple of weeks ago, or more, and he said there was an option in place. So, the article is wrong and so are you. Stop with the knee-jerk reactions so people can have a debate here.

Randy wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> This was clearly indoctrination. Harvick, Nemo, and MaxSham, along with the ACLU etc., would be screaming bloody murder if UNC had attempted to mandate Bible reading coupled with carefully "guided" discussions.
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You know nothing about me so you're making an assumption out of yourself.

Randy wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Harvick (not to mention Nemo and MaxScam) doesn't have the common sense to distinguish between forced indoctrination/"guided discussion" and genuine impartial learning. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've got enough common sense to know that you don't know what you're talking about.

And I also know this country is lawsuit crazy and that suing UNC over this is as about as stupid as you are, Randy! But, not quite. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

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No, the article isn't wrong, Harvick is---as usual. I have PERSONALLY talked to a young man who will be a freshman at UNC next month. He verified the fact that the program was originally MANDATORY and that no opt-outs would be tolerated. But he acknowledges that recently an opt-out became available, (shortly before the O'Reilly interview) due to the impending lawsuit.

This is clearly a case of attempted forced indoctrination in wanton violation of the First Amendment, with UNC and lackeys like Harvick now trying to cover up the hard facts.

[HarvickFan29]

Matt wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>The grammar schools in our district has better comparative religion studies than these fruit cakes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt, you really should know what you're talking about before pretending to. Go here:

http://www.unc.edu/depts/rel_stud/

[HarvickFan29]

Randy: This is part of the Summer Reading Program and the course is mandatory of all new undergrad student but the readings are not mandatory.

Go here and become enlightened!

http://www.unc.edu/srp/assignment.html

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"I read my synopsis of the Koran on Sept. 11, 2001... "

I agree with noon.

[Nemo]

If it were a class about the bible I would I would think the same thing. The people trying to stop a college require their students to read and discuss books are wrong.

Prayer in class to whomever: bad idea

Class about religion: good idea

It isn't difficult and it isn't complicated.


Blueroan says, he thinks he got his synopsis of the Koran on 9/11. Al Qeda beleive that 9/11 is a synopsis of the Koran too.

This college has made it a requirement that their students read and discuss that book. During that discussion I expect they will come to an opinion about whether Blueroan and Al Qeda are right. And that, whatever they decide, will mean they will be a littlle better informed, a little wiser, and little more educated than before.

Love

Roy