I believe Schiavo's husband

[SmellyFed]

I don't agree with allowing Terri Schiavo to die of dehydration but, I have little doubt that her husband is telling the truth - that she had said she didn't want to live like that.

She was a very attractive woman who was bulemic which tells me she was self-absorbed about her appearance and strong-willed enough to do something about it... starvation. Starvation isn't an easy thing - anyone who has fasted more then 48 hours knows it takes an act of will.

I believe it's very likely that she did tell her husband, something to the effect that she would never want to be kept alive in a vegetative state - and she was probably willful and serious about it.

My point in saying this is that a lot of the Right-Wing media are quick to demonize him and question his motives and it troubles me - because I believe he really is trying to honor what he believes were her wishes.

That all said - he has no moral right to deprive her of sustenance. Babies can't feed themselves either but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to waste away at their parents discretion.

[Rink]

Why dont we just kill em all off and be done with the pesky problem of the handicapped while we're at it? why stop at one woman? lets kill off the 'unwanted' babies and children, the old, the sick the infirm the handicapped the brain damaged anyone that dont fit our idea and perception of 'perfection' shouldnt be existing and taking up space in our world, we deserve the right to all the resources they're taking up and by their taking up all those resources we are harmed in the process.

So lets get to killin em al off so we can get back to our hedonistic amoral ways kay?

*gets off soapbox from hell replete with total disgust*
:soap:

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Smelly,

You REALLY need to do further investigation and reading about this case. There is WAY more to Michael Schiavo than his "desire to fulfill Terri's wishes."

This man stands to gain financially from her death. He with held treatment and rehabilitation that was covered by a medical trust fund from malpractice suit. Where's the money? He has never disclosed an accounting of the money, but it is most certainly NOT going to Terri's care -- medicaid is funding it. He is not even paying his own lawyers, the ACLU and a pro-death group are providing for it.

There was a point that Terri was getting better under rehabilitation, that was taking place before and DURING the malpractice lawsuit. AFTER the monetary award, her husband STOPPED all medical treatment and rehabilitation .... even though she was getting BETTER.

There is WAY, WAY, WAY more to this story, and I suggest you find it ALL out, before jumping on "the husband's" bandwagon.

[Rink]

Heck starvation is too slow and cumbersome, lets just give em a shot and be done with it.

To hell with their Constitutional rights, they arent fully human hence the Constitution and its protections do not apply to such as these.

[SmellyFed]

Why dont we just kill em all off and be done with the pesky problem of the handicapped while we're at it? why stop at one woman? lets kill off the 'unwanted' babies and children, the old, the sick the infirm the handicapped the brain damaged anyone that dont fit our idea and perception of 'perfection' shouldnt be existing and taking up space in our world, we deserve the right to all the resources they're taking up and by their taking up all those resources we are harmed in the process.

So lets get to killin em al off so we can get back to our hedonistic amoral ways kay?

*gets off soapbox from hell replete with total disgust*
:soap:

What I said was, I believe he's telling the truth when Michael Schiavo claims to be trying to honor his wife's wishes.

I did not say she should be allowed to die.

[SmellyFed]

Heck starvation is too slow and cumbersome, lets just give em a shot and be done with it.

To hell with their Constitutional rights, they arent fully human hence the Constitution and its protections do not apply to such as these.

Maybe you need to actually read what I wrote.

[Rink]

And I believe you need to read more into this, theres been too much allegations that Michael schiavo abused his wife and the circumstances of the way she ended up into is also highly suspect.

But then again absolutely nobody will look into it, justice is being denied.
Who cares if she is an American citizen, who cares if she has the very same Constitutional protections we all have and enjoy which is due process and that wonderfully basic Constitutional right.... to Life, Liberty and the purseuit of happiness.

Who cares, all on Michael schiavo's side says she's in a PVC state so lets not even bother with the other side of this story, lets just kill her off and be on our merry little way.

Who cares about one dumb woman.

[SmellyFed]

There is WAY, WAY, WAY more to this story, and I suggest you find it ALL out, before jumping on "the husband's" bandwagon.

I am not on the husbands bandwagon. I'm simply pointing out that I think he may be telling the truth that she had made statements to him that she wouldnt want to be kept alive in a vegetative state.

I think anyone that looks at the bulemia - which caused her heart attack - must fairly conclude that she was obsessive-compulsive about her appearance and rightly or wrongly, she may well have said, "I wouldn't want to live like that."

[Rink]

the truth of the matter is Michael schiavo wants her DEAD, period. and is obsessed to the core in reaching his goals.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

I am not on the husbands bandwagon. I'm simply pointing out that I think he may be telling the truth that she had made statements to him that she wouldnt want to be kept alive in a vegetative state.

I think anyone that looks at the bulemia - which caused her heart attack - must fairly conclude that she was obsessive-compulsive about her appearance and rightly or wrongly, she may well have said, "I wouldn't want to live like that."

Well, I think it is in serious doubt .... he didn't "remember" her wish until several years later. HIGHLY suspicious to me. Also, the "so-called" witnesses, her husband, HIS brother his wife -- not enough for me. I want to know of witnesses who are NOT related, and do not stand to gain or lose anything by the knowledge (of her wishes).

The very fact that we don't have written proof, should stop this cold in the tracks.

[SmellyFed]

And I believe you need to read more into this, theres been too much allegations that Michael schiavo abused his wife and the circumstances of the way she ended up into is also highly suspect.

But then again absolutely nobody will look into it, justice is being denied.
Who cares if she is an American citizen, who cares if she has the very same Constitutional protections we all have and enjoy which is due process and that wonderfully basic Constitutional right.... to Life, Liberty and the purseuit of happiness.

Who cares, all on Michael schiavo's side says she's in a PVC state so lets not even bother with the other side of this story, lets just kill her off and be on our merry little way.

Who cares about one dumb woman.

I guess it's impossible to have any sort objective discussion about the merits of his claim - that she had told him she wouldn't want to be kept alive in a vegetative state.

[Warlady]

Smelly, don't you at least find it odd that he didn't recall her saying that until 7 years after she got sick? I've heard the bulemia story too but I'm not necessarily buying it. Do you have proof? And what about her injuries? They could just as easily have been caused by an abusive husband. There certainly is a lot of proof of that.

[Rink]

Objectivity was thrown out the door the day Michael schiavo 'suddenly' remembered his wife's 'wishes' 7 years AFTER the fact.

And Terry's parents didnt know anything of her 'wishes'???

She ONLY tells her husband? If I had made MY wishes known my parents would have known, as it was obvious terry schiavo was close to her parents hence they should have known about her 'wishes' as well.

so objectivity cannot be had anymore when nobody wishes to hear the schindler's side at all.

Doesnt harm anyone to allow the schindlers to care for the child they brought into this world to begin with, but hey, her husband knows all he knows more than her parents do what terry wishes.

Terry was ONLY with her parents 20 some odd years whereas she was with her husband how many years?

Not as many I can tell ya that!!

[SmellyFed]

Well, I think it is in serious doubt .... he didn't "remember" her wish until several years later. HIGHLY suspicious to me. Also, the "so-called" witnesses, her husband, HIS brother his wife -- not enough for me. I want to know of witnesses who are NOT related, and do not stand to gain or lose anything by the knowledge (of her wishes).

The very fact that we don't have written proof, should stop this cold in the tracks.

I don't support the notion whatsoever that she should be allowed to die. But like I said, I believe Michael Schiavo's claim that Terri didn't want to live like that.

I was with a fellow over the weekend that is 68 years old and he told me that he and his wife have had similar discussions, just the two of them - "don't let me be kept alive like that". I don't agree with that perspective - I believe it's God's choice not your own... but if called into court to testify, I'd have to say "yeah, he did say he wouldn't want to live like that."

But my friend doesn't have a living will... and due to this newstory about Schiavo there's probably a lot of couples around the country having very similar discussions, but not taking the steps to spell it out in a will. This is likely to come up again and again - and thats why this precedent is so pivotal.

[american kid]

I do not support Smelly. However, what I think he is trying to say is that he thinks her husband is honoring her wishes. However, those wishes might have coinsided with his desire to get rich. I do not think Smelly is saying that she should be allowed to die. I do not support Smelly's story, I was just trying to clairfy it.

[SmellyFed]

Smelly, don't you at least find it odd that he didn't recall her saying that until 7 years after she got sick? I've heard the bulemia story too but I'm not necessarily buying it. Do you have proof? And what about her injuries? They could just as easily have been caused by an abusive husband. There certainly is a lot of proof of that.

I don't have chapter and verse, but I believe it was Terri's sister who admitted on the Fox News Channel that Terri had had an ongoing problem with bulemia nervosa.

[Warlady]

So this is evidence that her husband is telling the truth? You can't be serious.

[Taylor]

The thing is Terri NEVER signed a living will stating her wishes. How do you know she had an eating disorder? Michael could have lied about her having an eating disorder. He's a male nurse. I think he tried to kill her the night she collapsed. Most likely, he injected something into her that stopped her heart which caused the brain damage. The way I see it, he wants to finish what he started by killing her off. Florida Medicaid is paying for her to stay alive. The Schiavo case just prooves what I and many other people with disabilities have experienced. Many able bodied people think disabled people aren't really alive. They just "exist". The next thing you know, they will go after other people with disabilities.

[Rink]

Circumstantial evidence is going to execute an innocent American citizen

You wont see Circumstantial evidence execute a Murderer, nooooo murderers on death row have the right of due process but an innocent American citizen whose ONLY crime is to be brain damaged will get no due process and is being condemned to death on the spurious say-so of her 'loving husband'

[Warlady]

What Taylor said.

[jag]

My point in saying this is that a lot of the Right-Wing media are quick to demonize him and question his motives and it troubles me - because I believe he really is trying to honor what he believes were her wishes.


Did he tell the truth here when he was suing for malpractice money?
November 1992
Testimony of Michael Schiavo, Medical Malpractice Trial

Q. Why did you want to learn to be a nurse?
MS. Because I enjoy it and I want to learn more how to take care of Terri.

Q. You're a young man. Your life is ahead of you. When you look up the road, what do you see for yourself?
MS. I see myself hopefully finishing school and taking care of my wife.

Q. Where do you want to take care of your wife?
MS. I want to bring her home.

Q. If you had the resources available to you, if you had the equipment and the people, would you do that?
MS. Yes, I would, in a heartbeat.

Q. How do you feel about being married to Terri now.
MS. I feel wonderful. She's my life and I wouldn't trade her for the world. I believe in my marriage vows.

Q. You believe in your wedding vows, what do you mean by that?
MS. I believe in the vows I took with my wife, through sickness, in health, for richer or poor. I married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I'm going to do that.

Or was he telling the truth here after the money came through?
November 1993
Michael Schiavo Deposition, Guardianship Hearing
Q. So when you made the decision not to treat Terri's bladder infection you, in effect, were making a decision to allow her to pass on?
MS. I was making a decision on what Terri would want.

Q. Had the bladder condition been treated?
MS. Yes.

Q. And was...what was the reason that the bladder condition was treated?
MS. Sable Palms Nursing Home said they could not do that by some Florida law which wasn't stated.

Q. But you didn't change your opinion or your decision to not treat the bladder condition?
MS. We did change it.

Q. Correct?
MS. Repeat the question.

Q. You did not change your decision not to treat the bladder condition, correct?
MS. I had to change my decision.

Q. Sable Palms changed it for you?
Attorney Nillson Objection

Q. Okay. Is there any reason that you would not make the same decision that you previously made if the problem came up again?
MS. Repeat your question. You're losing me here.

Q. Let me be more specific. If your wife developed another condition that could result in her death, is there any reason that you would not take the position that you're not going to treat that condition and you're going to instruct the doctor not to treat that condition?
MS. I wouldn't instruct anybody, no.

Q. You instructed the doctor not to treat the condition, correct?
Attorney Nillson Objection

Q. You did instruct the doctor not to treat her bladder condition, correct?
MS. Uh-huh. Yes.

Q. If a similar...would you do the same?
MS. I'm thinking.

Q. Take your time.
MS. I probably wouldn't instruct the doctor to do it.

Q. So you've changed your opinion?
MS. Sort of, yeah.

Q. Why have you changed your opinion?
MS. Because evidently there is a law out there that says I can't do it.

Q. Is that the only reason?
MS. Basically, maybe.

Q. What you're telling me is, is that there is nothing in your belief or feelings that have changed. The only thing that has changed is the fact that you perceive the law prevents you to do what you intended to do?
MS. Correct.

This I threw in just because he's a jerk :flame:

Q. What did you do with your wife's jewelry?
MS. My wife's jewelry?

Q. Yeah.
MS. Um, I think I took her engagement ring and her...what do they call it...diamond wedding band and made a ring for myself.

[tacitus]

We'll probably never know what Terri's wishes were if she is allowed to die.

I do know one thing, my wife and I are making an appointment to get a living will done for the both of us to avoid this in our family. I will urge my sons to do the same.

[SmellyFed]

Here's a couple articles on the bulimia issue as it relates to Terri Schiavo:

USA Today:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-02-25-schiavo-eating-disorder_x.htm

Fox News:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,148756,00.html

I'm not arguing that the feeding tube should be removed. My faith doesn't support that.

I wouldn't let roadkill die like that - let alone someone made in the image of God.

I'm only saying that I believe Michael Schiavo that Terri had probably told him that she didn't want to live like "that".

[Warlady]

But you haven't stated why you believe he is telling the truth? Why did he wait 7 years to make that statement that Terri told him she didn't want to live like that? It just came back to him after 7 years? That's not real credible.

[jag]

WL, he tried to float the idea in 1993. I just wonder why and who gave him the advice to go to a judge. My guess is because her parents kept fighting him every step of the way and he found a Death Advocate attorney and sympathetic judge.

[Warlady]

We'll probably never know what Terri's wishes were if she is allowed to die.

I do know one thing, my wife and I are making an appointment to get a living will done for the both of us to avoid this in our family. I will urge my sons to do the same.

Make sure you read all the fine print tac. Our hospital gives away living wills. You may want to stipulate exactly what you want.

[SmellyFed]

But you haven't stated why you believe he is telling the truth? Why did he wait 7 years to make that statement that Terri told him she didn't want to live like that? It just came back to him after 7 years? That's not real credible.

I believe he's telling the truth because a desire from her to "not live in a vegetative state" seems consistent with someone who is obsessed with their weight, physical appearance to the point of starving themselves.

[Warlady]

And that's it? It seems consistent? To hell with the fact that he overlooked her desires for the first 7 years until he got a huge settlement? Pulllllleeeeeeeeeeze.

[Maggie_T]

You know, I think it's very easy to say "I don't want to live on feeding tubes" when one is in good health. It's easy to be a hero then. I wonder though, how many of us would still think like that in Terri's situation. For all we know, she could be silently begging for her life.

Just a thought.

[SmellyFed]

I get the feeling that you all think I'm arguing on the husband's point of view. I'm not. I've said repeatedly in this thread that they shouldn't pull her feeding tube - that she shouldn't be forced to die like that.

I don't think her husbands a good man or a moral man - I just happen to think she may well have said what he says she said. I think it's consistent with her obsession about her appearance which the USA Today article lays out pretty well.

If that makes me a nitwit in your eyes for trying to look at this objectively then so be it.

[Melz]

She "may" have said it once while watching a television show or something. She may have said "If I am ever in that condition, please just let me go." Heck, even I have said that. Maybe he is misconstruing her "condition" though and likening it to that of someone who actually is on the verge of death, being kept alive by machines. Fact is though, she is not at that point at all ! I think that most of those who say "let her die" believe that she is that bad off. I think that he knows her potential and wants no part of keeping her alive despite that.

[Warlady]

Smelly, you don't even know for certain if she WAS obsessed with her weight. A lot of us are obsessed to a point about our weight. How many 20 year olds do you know who 20+ years ago even discussed this subject? I know I didn't. And at 20 I was definitely obsessed with my weight. At that age no one knows what they want to do about something this serious.

[SmellyFed]

Smelly, you don't even know for certain if she WAS obsessed with her weight. A lot of us are obsessed to a point about our weight. How many 20 year olds do you know who 20+ years ago even discussed this subject? I know I didn't. And at 20 I was definitely obsessed with my weight. At that age no one knows what they want to do about something this serious.

If people develop bulimic nervosa for any other reason then an obsession about weight, I'll eat my hat. Pun absolutely intended.

[Rink]

hey smelly I USED to be anorexic
I'm still alive and still here, I didnt start eating correctly till 1990, and that was ONLY 15 years ago, all throughout my High school years I was between 95 - 100 max.

believe me I KNOW eating disorders, and i do not think she had one, and even if she did have one its Extremely rare for an eating disorder to result in the 'accident' she had that supposedly put her in the condition she is in.

and its rare her parents wouldnt have noticed it before any health problems came of it as well.

That I bet wont be found anywhere in the stupid medical books if you looked hard enough.

The judges are too lazy to look for themselves at basic information over this case, they are negligent in their constitutional duties and oaths of office.

They ALL need to be removed, we do not need judges such as they in our courts.

As for the eating problems, been there done it

[tacitus]

Make sure you read all the fine print tac. Our hospital gives away living wills. You may want to stipulate exactly what you want.

Thanks WL.

[SmellyFed]

hey smelly I USED to be anorexic
believe me I KNOW eating disorders, and i do not think she had one, and even if she did have one its Extremely rare for an eating disorder to result in the 'accident' she had that supposedly put her in the condition she is in.

and its rare her parents wouldnt have noticed it before any health problems came of it as well.

That I bet wont be found anywhere in the stupid medical books if you looked hard enough.


Well you too seem to be ignoring this part of the news:

Posted: February 24, 2005 at 12:18 p.m.


TAMPA, Fla. (AP) -- Before she was the severely brain-damaged patient at the center of a legal dispute over whether she should live or die, Terri Schiavo was a young woman who desperately wanted to be thin.

At 26, she was strikingly beautiful with delicate features. But she had spent her childhood and high school years as a chubby and shy girl, standing just 5-foot-3 and weighing 200 pounds at her heaviest.

When she finally lost 65 pounds in her late teens, men started to pay attention -- including the man who would become her husband, Michael Schiavo, who was tall and handsome. But keeping the weight off was a struggle for Terri Schiavo, and years later -- after her heart stopped briefly, cutting off oxygen to the brain -- a malpractice case brought against a doctor on her behalf would reveal she had been trying to survive on liquids and was making herself throw up after meals. The Schiavos' lawyer said her 1990 collapse was caused by a potassium imbalance brought on by an eating disorder.

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=2994651

While it may be rare, it seems to have been the case with Mrs. Schiavo.

[Warlady]

Smelly you didn't address my post at all. How can you believe this husband who has been so very abusive to Terri?

[UnkHiram]

At the risk of derailing this discussion let me point out that there is some disagreement on whether Terri is in a "constant vegetative state" or if she is "minimally conscious." I would also like to point out that food and water are not NORMALLY considered "heroic efforts" to keep some one alive.

[Warlady]

Exactly Unk. I find it curious that Michael Schiavo didn't remember that Terri even said she didn't want to be kept alive "that way" until 7 years AFTER she got sick. I realize no one in their right mind would want to live "that way" but like anyone who is delt a blow like that the survival instinct kicks in. It's impossible to say what someone really wants in that situation and she's not in a PVS according to a neurologist from the Mayo clinic who has reviewed her case. We must err on the side of life when there is doubt. And we should NEVER starve or dehydrate someone to death. Not in America. Unless they themselves specifically request it in writing or can verbalize it which Terri cannot do.

[SmellyFed]

Smelly you didn't address my post at all. How can you believe this husband who has been so very abusive to Terri?

I've addressed this about 10 times already.

I don't live eat and breathe this case, but based upon what I've seen about Terri's eating disorder, I think it's consistent with that type of eating disorder that someone so obsessed with their appearance may well have made a statement about not wanting to be kept alive in a vegetative state.

I don't believe Terri's husband because I find him a swell guy or a paragon of virtue - I believe him because of what I know of Terri.

[Warlady]

But you have stated that you don't know chapter and verse about her case. You don't know anything "of Terri" basically. If you want to base your judgement on hearsay then go ahead. I base my judgement on facts. Facts I know to be true about Terri's husband and he is not credible.

[LadyHawk108]

Smelly, you think she was self absorbed because she was bulemic? I would say she had no self-esteem. I'm sure her abusive husband was no help every time she gained a pound or two after they were married. Regardless, her want of acceptance is not abnormal and your title of self-absorbed is unwarranted IMO.

[SmellyFed]

But you have stated that you don't know chapter and verse about her case. You don't know anything "of Terri" basically. If you want to base your judgement on hearsay then go ahead. I base my judgement on facts. Facts I know to be true about Terri's husband and he is not credible.

I say I don't know chapter and verse because I'm not claiming to know every jot and tittle about this case. If someone has interesting things to bring to the discussion, I'm interested to read them.. just as I was when Rink posted the transcripts earlier in the thread.

But You ignore the articles pointing to her eating disorder which led to this condition. You say you base your judgement on the facts but you ignore facts that aren't consistent with your viewpoint.

[Warlady]

LadyH that is assuming that she was bulemic in the first place. What Smelly has refused to address is the fact that Michael Schiavo didn't even RECALL Terri's wishes until SEVEN YEARS LATER. HELLO???????? And that's AFTER he was awarded a HUGE monetary settlement. How convenient. Sorry Smelly but your theory smells.

[UnkHiram]

As I have stated several times in numerous strings --- I am still not sure one way or the other what should be done in this case. Although, I will state that I think she should be given a comple new hearing (AS REQUIRED BY CONGRESS) before the decision should be made with all the evidence presented. Since a Death Row inmate is always given a stay while his case is being appealed the same "right" should be afforded to Terri.

On the other hand one thing I am fairly sure of is that her husband can not be trusted. I have heard the interviews with the nurses that gave afidavits that stated Michael refused to allow the rehab treatments that were ORDERED by Doctors for Terri. I am also fairly sure that at the very least Michael credibility is in doubt because he has taken another wife and had children with her. His credibility is also in doubt because he stands to gain financially from Terri's death.

[SmellyFed]

Smelly, you think she was self absorbed because she was bulemic? I would say she had no self-esteem. I'm sure her abusive husband was no help every time she gained a pound or two after they were married. Regardless, her want of acceptance is not abnormal and your title of self-absorbed is unwarranted IMO.

I have never used the term "Self-absorbed" in this discussion. You made that up.

[Warlady]

I don't agree with allowing Terri Schiavo to die of dehydration but, I have little doubt that her husband is telling the truth - that she had said she didn't want to live like that.

She was a very attractive woman who was bulemic which tells me she was self-absorbed about her appearance and strong-willed enough to do something about it... starvation. Starvation isn't an easy thing - anyone who has fasted more then 48 hours knows it takes an act of will.

I believe it's very likely that she did tell her husband, something to the effect that she would never want to be kept alive in a vegetative state - and she was probably willful and serious about it.

My point in saying this is that a lot of the Right-Wing media are quick to demonize him and question his motives and it troubles me - because I believe he really is trying to honor what he believes were her wishes.

That all said - he has no moral right to deprive her of sustenance. Babies can't feed themselves either but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to waste away at their parents discretion.

Excuse me Smelly but you did use the term "self-absorbed". LadyH didn't make anything up.

[SmellyFed]

LadyH that is assuming that she was bulemic in the first place. What Smelly has refused to address is the fact that Michael Schiavo didn't even RECALL Terri's wishes until SEVEN YEARS LATER. HELLO???????? And that's AFTER he was awarded a HUGE monetary settlement. How convenient. Sorry Smelly but your theory smells.

I'm not going to address it because it's not necessarily material. This guy has turned down a payout of over $10 million dollars to turn power of attorney over to Terri's parents. Something besides money is motivating this guy.

[SmellyFed]

Excuse me Smelly but you did use the term "self-absorbed". LadyH didn't make anything up.

Ah ok. Thank you - didn't recall using that exact terminology.

[Wolfcounsel]

"This guy has turned down a payout of over $10 million dollars to turn power of attorney over to Terri's parents. Something besides money is motivating this guy." --SmellyFed


I know if I had a potential witness against me for attempted murder, I would turn down a kingdom. My opinion only.

[Warlady]

No he hasn't turned down 10 million dollars. He turned down 1 million dollars. He's set to get more than that from her insurance and trust fund. That's why 1 million wasn't enough. I also believe because he's a devout Catholic that he doesn't want divorce on his record.

[Wolfcounsel]

"I also believe because he's a devout Catholic that he doesn't want divorce on his record." --Warlady

I believe he's a murderer.

[Peachdiane]

I have mentioned this before but my sister died from bulimia nervosa in '92. The heart attack happened and then the brain aneurysm. Let me just say that it is not just "an obsession" but a real disease. My sister never brought up the subject of advanced directives or DNR because in her mind there was no need to. "Nothing was wrong." I was there and she was in denial the WHOLE time and truly saw herself as "overweight but healthy."

I really hate that everyone is speculating what Terri wanted or not. You weren't there!

[DesertFox]

There's no evidence that bulimics t want to starve to death, or to die by dehydration.

[SmellyFed]

Smelly, you think she was self absorbed because she was bulemic? I would say she had no self-esteem. I'm sure her abusive husband was no help every time she gained a pound or two after they were married. Regardless, her want of acceptance is not abnormal and your title of self-absorbed is unwarranted IMO.

Having no self-esteem is certainly another way to couch that. I'm not denying that you might be correct.

I'm only saying that I believe it's clear from the news articles that she was obsessive compulsive about her weight and may well have said "I wouldn't want to live in a vegetative state".

I could be wrong. I don't deny that. But frankly, so could all of you.

I realize it's politically incorrect in right-leaning circles to side with Michael Schiavo on any point, but I prefer to try to look at this as objectively as possible. And that is my take on it.

[SmellyFed]

No he hasn't turned down 10 million dollars. He turned down 1 million dollars. He's set to get more than that from her insurance and trust fund. That's why 1 million wasn't enough. I also believe because he's a devout Catholic that he doesn't want divorce on his record.

Wrong.

Michael Schiavo and his lawyer said when offered $1 million to let her live that it was a ridiculous offer, that they had already been offered $10 million and turned that down. This was on Larry King as I recall.

There's a thread going at Free Republic about the $10 million offer (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1362647/posts). I saw it elsewhere as well ... I'll try to find the link.

Here's another news-story about the $10 million offer (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sflk-311schiavo,0,1680237.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines).

[DesertFox]

I don't see anything particularly objective about your opinion, Smelly. Objectively, none of us would have an opinion because we're not privy. Objectively, dying by dehydration is a ghastly way to die. Objectively, Schiavo is willing for her to suffer that ghastly death and we can only speculate as to why. Objectively, Terri might have said anything over the years and this might or might not have been among those things she said or didn't say.

Objectively, you are entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong. :D

[SmellyFed]

And objectively she may well have told her husband what he says she told him.

[Warlady]

Okay smartass who offered him ten million? A ridiculous offer? So 1 million or 10 million are ridiculous offers but maybe he's holding out for more? Smelly do you get Fox news? Do you watch it? Since you obviously watch CNN I now understand your mindset. Her parents were just on and they said that Terri expressed she would never want to live on a respirator but never expressed that she would ever want to be starved to death. I think you are wrong about Michael Schiavo. He's a snake. He may very well be the cause of her injuries and is scared to death that if she gets rehabilitated that she will tell the world what he did to her.

[DesertFox]

And objectively, she may not have.

[Wolfcounsel]

And objectively, the husband is an as*hole, and objectively every as*hole who wants her murdered should suffer a horrendous death or debilitating stroke.

[Warlady]

Exactly Fox. This entire thing makes me ill. Michael doesn't give a shit about Terri. He cares about his freedom. He cares about his whore and his bastards but he doesn't care about Terri.

[DesertFox]

Well, I won't say his girlfriend's a whore or their kids bastards, but I will say there's nothing objective about siding with him.

[SmellyFed]

A ridiculous offer? So 1 million or 10 million are ridiculous offers but maybe he's holding out for more? Smelly do you get Fox news? Do you watch it? Since you obviously watch CNN I now understand your mindset. Her parents were just on and they said that Terri expressed she would never want to live on a respirator but never expressed that she would ever want to be starved to death. I think you are wrong about Michael Schiavo. He's a snake. He may very well be the cause of her injuries and is scared to death that if she gets rehabilitated that she will tell the world what he did to her.

"Okay smartass who offered him ten million?"

Here you go, dumbass:http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sflk-311schiavo,0,1680237.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

Yes I do watch FoxNews - almost exclusively.

Goodbye

[Wolfcounsel]

"Yes I do watch FoxNews - almost exclusively.

Goodbye" --SmellyFed


I get that occasionally from turds that I flush, and they pop right back up again!:hissyfit:

[DesertFox]

I do think that if Jeb or W. really wanna intervene, now's the time to dust off what Jackson or somebody said when he ran into a judge like this: "He has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it!" The executive branch, not the judicial branch, gives orders to the police; and either can order cops over to that hospital to see to it that she's hooked up.

[Wolfcounsel]

"The executive branch, not the judicial branch, gives orders to the police." --DesertFox


Yes. That why I said about Bu--, er, uh, never mind. My prior statement stays retracted.

[Rink]

Well when will they get the balls to do so and stand up to these damned overstepping judges????

if the judges get their way on this they wil be incredibly bold towards the American people and the politicians the people elect to government i.e. these selfsame pushy activist judges may just get the notion to tell our politicians what they can and cant do soon, given the matter of brass boldness they may get.

They're already overstepping the bounds of their authority by telling the florida legislature and jeb bush what they can and cannot do now over this, so when will the Fl legislature and jeb bus grow a pair and flip the proverbial bird at the activist judges?

[Warlady]

GUESS WHAT SMELLY? I DON'T BELIEVE TERRI'S HUSBAND AND I THINK YOU ARE A NAIVE GULLIBLE FOOL. What is sad to me is that there are a lot of naive gullible fools in this country. Terri may very well die before the powers that be come to their senses and find out that Michael Schaivo and Judge Greer are out of control and are murdering this poor girl but by damn I hope this never happens again.

[UnkHiram]

Smelly if those of us that doubt her husband are wrong all that happens is Terri gets a few extra days of life, On the other hand if you are wrong a Woman is MURDERED. Are you willing to live with that? Frankly, I am not.

[Warlady]

In all fairness Unk, Smelly has said he doesn't want Terri to die this way. But to believe her husband in the face of all the facts is just unbelievable to me. And no I don't believe for one minute that he was offered 10 million dollars because if he had been I believe he would have accepted it. Unless he believed without a doubt that she would regain her speech and implicate him in her injuries.

[Warlady]

I think Smelly wants desperately to believe Michael Schaivo based on some bulemic rumor. Tonight Hannity asked the family about that and they said that it wasn't true. I saw this with my own eyes and ears. It was Terri's Father and Terri's sister...the sister that Smelly said made the claim in the first place. I think rumors need to be backed up by proof before they are given weight.

[Melz]

someone posted this article on another site. Didn't know where to put it, but it is a good commentary on Michael and his willingness to be a loving husband:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43446

[Apollo5600]

I get that occasionally from turds that I flush, and they pop right back up again!

Heheheheh

[UnkHiram]

Warlady

I understand that Smelly does not want Terri to die, on the other hand giving credance to her Husband claims would allow him to murder Terri.

[Warlady]

I agree Unk. That's why I'm so frustrated with Smelly. I normally agree with him and I normally respect his opinion. I won't make that mistake again.

[Rink]

I thought bulimia was a rare condition?

[Longhorn_Platinum]

:unsmile: I don't believe Michael Schiavo for a minute. I really don't believe Terri ever said anything about not living like "that".

[Warlady]

Moo how many 20 year olds do you know that even discuss "living will" scenarios? I have never known anyone. Let's take a poll shall we?

[terri]

I am not on the husbands bandwagon. I'm simply pointing out that I think he may be telling the truth that she had made statements to him that she wouldnt want to be kept alive in a vegetative state.

I think anyone that looks at the bulemia - which caused her heart attack - must fairly conclude that she was obsessive-compulsive about her appearance and rightly or wrongly, she may well have said, "I wouldn't want to live like that."

Pat Boone, no slouch on anybody's truth-telling-meter, was on Fox this pm with John Gibson. According to Mr. Boone, when police arrived on the scene at the point in time when Terri was stricken, they wanted to investigate her case as a homicide attempt. Mr. Boone related that somewhere down the line that idea was scraped.

So maybe there is way more to Michael Schavio's motives than the wishes of a woman who cannot (as yet because she's been refused rehab!) speak for herself. Maybe Michael Schavio does not want Terri to ever speak again....... hummmmm.......:flame:

[Warlady]

terri we have been saying that in every thread in this forum. Michael Schaivo is getting away with judicial murder with the help of Judge Greer and the federal courts inclucing the UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT. God help us all.

[terri]

terri we have been saying that in every thread in this forum. Michael Schaivo is getting away with judicial murder with the help of Judge Greer and the federal courts inclucing the UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT. God help us all.


Hi Warlady,

You know I understand that croc hunting in Austraila is really gaining in popularity. I think poor Mr. Schaivo needs a vacation after starving his wife to death. I'd be happy to take up a collection to send Mr. Schaivo to the Outback, and I'll even load his BB gun with rock salt. But then again, there are some great swamps here in the states, and you can find very good stumps to chain yourself too. That way, the crocs find you. HATEFUL SARCASM INTENDED.

[Warlady]

mom, do you know the definiteion of "bastard"? I agree it's not the kid's fault but in the eyes of God they are bastards. Sorry mom but that is what they are. Look up the definition of bastard in the dictionary. Michael Schiavo is married to Terri. He has laid down with this woman and has spawn her children. What else do you call them? I am not judging them. I'm only calling them what they are and it's not their fault. It's HIS fault. I hope he fries in hell.

[Rink]

Personally God does NOT miss anything when it comes to outright injustice.

and at least a comforting thought here would be, nobody lives forever, and eventually irregardless of how long it may be, michael schiavo will end up in GOD's court, and in God's court there are NO appealls, and for Michael schiavo, he will get the kind of 'mercy' he gave to his wife terry schiavo.

God dont forget nuffin.

EVER

[Longhorn_Platinum]

...in God's court there are NO appealls,...

:moo: And NO BRIBES!!

[Warlady]

mom, I'm sorry if you have a problem with the truth or the language I use publically but I call everything as I see it.

What Rink said.

[Antigone]

Did anyone catch this little slip on the Larry King Live show Mar 18???


KING: Have you had any contact with the family today? This is a sad day all the way around, Michael. We know of your dispute.

M. SCHIAVO: I've had no contact with them.

KING: No contact at all?

M. SCHIAVO: No.

KING: Do you understand how they feel?

M. SCHIAVO: Yes, I do. But this is not about them, it's about Terri. And I've also said that in court. We didn't know what Terri wanted, but this is what we want...

[Kathy29]

The anti abortionists were right all along weren't they?

30 years ago, they predicted the outlandish idea that this was the beginning of the devaluation of human life and we would be executing unwanted adults. It scares me to know how right they were.

If a mother can abort her baby because it's her choice why can't a husband kill his wife as exercising his choice?

[jag]

Did anyone catch this little slip on the Larry King Live show Mar 18???


KING: Have you had any contact with the family today? This is a sad day all the way around, Michael. We know of your dispute.

M. SCHIAVO: I've had no contact with them.

KING: No contact at all?

M. SCHIAVO: No.

KING: Do you understand how they feel?

M. SCHIAVO: Yes, I do. But this is not about them, it's about Terri. And I've also said that in court. We didn't know what Terri wanted, but this is what we want...


Yep, Larry King is such a light weight.

The burning questions I have are

1) Was MS lying when in 1992 he won money for her care saying he was going to become a nurse and care for her or was he lying 3 months later - Feb 1993- when he posted the first DNR order?

2) If the court beleived MS and others was "told" by Terri she wouldn't want to live, then why is it the "feeling" of the court that she would care to die.

[PrezLeefun]

Moo how many 20 year olds do you know that even discuss "living will" scenarios? I have never known anyone. Let's take a poll shall we?
WL i have a living will. i've had one since october. is that good enough?

[PrezLeefun]

has anyone stopped to think about how this woman will be at rest when she dies. at all?

[jag]

Prez, everyone is at peace when they die. Thats not an issue. He lied she dies - you good with that??