'No Substantial Likelihood of Success'

[tacitus]

'No Substantial Likelihood of Success': The Curse Pronounced by a New God

by Mike Thompson
Posted Mar 24, 2005

In rejecting Mr. and Mrs. Robert Schindler's appeal to save their braindamaged daughter, Terri Schiavo, from certain death by court-ordered dehydration and starvation, U.S. District Judge James Whittemore wrapped himself in his black robe and announced imperiously from his court in Tampa, Florida, that he had denied their petition, because it had no "substantial likelihood of success."

We should rejoice that Honorable Judge Whittemore was not in the position, prior to his appointment by President Bill Clinton, to share with the world his frightening omniscience. Had the godlike federal jurist been around for a few eons, think of all the other mere humans who would have been compelled to accept "The Whittemore Curse" and curb their thirst and hunger for victory and survival.

Had these frustrated souls been instructed that their future was so dire, history never would have recorded the following miracles of human triumph:

<li>With no substantial likelihood of success, enslaved Jews never would have chanced a dash to freedom from Egypt by walking across the parted Red Sea.

<li>With no substantial likelihood of success, a ragtag bunch of young Americans (mostly teenage amateurs) never would have played the Soviet Union's juggernaut hockey team of polished professionals and defeated them in the middle of the titanic Cold War, in 1980.

With no substantial likelihood of success, ex-actor Ronald Reagan never would have climbed from being a summertime pool lifeguard in Illinois to being elected the 40th President of the United States, also in 1980, and eventually delivering the coup de grâce to the entire Soviet Empire.


Read the rest of the article here. (http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=6950)

I guess we had better brace for more of this judicial ignorance. :flame:

[UnkHiram]

With no substantial likelihood of success, -- A bunch of ragtag farmers and loud mouthed fanatics could never beat the best Army in the world --- The American Revolution.

With no substantial likelihood of success, -- 183 men forted up in an old beat down church had no chance of delaying an army of over 5000 soldiers long enough to matter --- Remember the Alamo and thirteen days of glory.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

WOW, what a GREAT article -- there have been so many over the past days. This was awesome, and right on the mark. That phrase has totally had me baffled, most certainly because of all the "lost causes" that have been won, just in this country alone.

[DoctorDoom]

It's a comparison of apples and rocks. The author is trying to equate a medical condition to other totally unrelated events. He failed.

With no substantial likelihood of success, writers are trying desperately to find something to say about the Schiavo travesty that hasn't already been said 99 trillion times.

Can you say "egregious excess", boys and girls?

[DesertFox]

Doc, aren't you outraged that they're making the woman die of thirst? We can disagree about whether she should be allowed to die, but I'm quite sure that that form of death is unacceptably awful to you.

[DoctorDoom]

I've sworn off of going into the Schiavo forum for any reason precisely because this sort of high-temperature conflict is the norm. However, since it's now seeping out into the other forums...

I see two possibilities:

1. If she is so severely brain-damaged that she is insentient and therefore unaware of what is going on, then she is in no distress or pain.

2. If she IS sentient and aware, it is inhuman to do that to her, but it is equally inhuman to want to condemn her to more decades of living in that prison of flesh.

Do I like what's happening? No. Can I do one ... thing about it? No. Would I like to see it done differently? Certainly. Will I? Not bloody likely. IMO, let the process run its course, because it has already done irreparable damage. She will hopefully be far better off in the next life.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

...gawddamn...

:unsmile: Please stop.

[DoctorDoom]

Why? It's far tamer than what I edited out of it.

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

2. If she IS sentient and aware, it is inhuman to do that to her, but it is equally inhuman to want to condemn her to more decades of living in that prison of flesh.


I didn't think this article was very compelling either (for different reasons), but your statement here is just bull. If she is sentient and aware, then there is no gray area, there is hope for some rehabilitation, and this is murder under all definitions, except, perhaps, that of blood-thirsty liberals who want doctor-assisted death to be legal so bad that they're willing to see an innocent person die just to have it become mainstream. (Even if she wasn't, and the situation is closer to No. 1, which I highly doubt, it's still hard to justify her death given the circumstances.) The "inhuman" thing to do is to starve and dehydrate a person to death, just because her adulterous "husband" wants to kill her, especially when her parents will give her love and care for the rest of her life.

[DoctorDoom]

I didn't think this article was very compelling either (for different reasons), but your statement here is just bull.And rhetoric like that is exactly why I refuse to go into the Schiavo forum. I have no time for hyperemotionalism, nor for a subject that has become an obsession.

This is another thread that I shall now avoid, along with the 84 other threads on the subject in the forum dedicated to it.

[The_Sonarman]

And rhetoric like that is exactly why I refuse to go into the Schiavo forum. I have no time for hyperemotionalism, nor for a subject that has become an obsession.

I too have been avoiding the Schiavo threads for the precise same reasons. I'm glad to hear I'm not alone in this.

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

And rhetoric like that is exactly why I refuse to go into the Schiavo forum.

:rolleyes:

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Well, I don't care a rootin'-toot. I think the article is very apropos, and made a great point -- even if allegorical. The phrase "no substantial likelihood of success" is disingenuous at best. When you are dealing with cases of life and death, ALL avenues should be exhausted before writing off the issues at hand as having no likelihood of success. NO ONE, not even the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States of America can predict the outcome of a case, hearing, trial, BEFORE the case has been brought, argued, and closing arguments given.

Think about it. Juries are impanelled every day across this land, chosen for their ability NOT to have a preconceived notion of the case before them, then they are charged to listen and weigh ALL the evidence, AFTER the case has closed.

Ya'll can think I'm a simple hill-billy if you want to, and look down your noses at me for not "understanding" the article, I don't care. I stand by my opinion.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

Why? It's far tamer than what I edited out of it.

:unsmile: Because it's a violation of the 3rd Commandment. I can tolerate other cusswords, because they're mostly considered vulgar by sociëtal agreement, not by God's law, but the one you used should never be used by anyone who professes to be Christian. We've discussed this before. By using that term, you're putting yourself on the same level as Madalyn O'Hair, who used it in every other sentence, & she purposely said "gawd" to show further contempt for God.

[DoctorDoom]

And why do you assume that you are interpreting the commandment correctly? I've seen several variations. Nevertheless, to soothe chafed nerves in #85 of these Schiavo threads, and because this isn't a place for a theological discourse, I shall delete it.

Edit: make that thread #87.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

And why do you assume that you are interpreting the commandment correctly?

:unsmile: It's not something I'd say in front of my pastor, or anyone upon whom I would like to make a Christlike impression.

:question:

:unsmile: Actually, that would be everyone. At any rate, the Bible says to avoid all appearance of evil. Go ahead, & do as you please.

[Wyatt_Junker]

:unsmile: It's not something I'd say in front of my pastor, or anyone upon whom I would like to make a Christlike impression.

:question:

:unsmile: Actually, that would be everyone. At any rate, the Bible says to avoid all appearance of evil. Go ahead, & do as you please.

Actually, pastors have a hard slog, socially speaking, for that very reason. They are classified as 'that guy' and hence all discussion becomes a pitiful exercise in extreme etiquette. Pastors are always odd man out due to the flock's pretension.

Careful in your attempt to avoid all appearance of evil, and yet neglect mercy and/or to care for orphans and widows in their time of distress.

And one last question, did Christ blaspheme God on the cross? Or was it merely lack of faith? He was direct, demanding to know why God had forsaken him(ie damned him), and it was quite a tug on the celestial robes. I like Paul's style myself, telling the religious wingnuts to go all the way with themselves and cut off their peckers, or equating his book smarts to shat. Not a sermon for the faint of heart.

Christ is not a prude. I hope that I never get so spiritually ethereal that I forget how to talk to a common man, nor become unapproachable using my religion as a social shield for human contact.

[Warlady]

And rhetoric like that is exactly why I refuse to go into the Schiavo forum. I have no time for hyperemotionalism, nor for a subject that has become an obsession.

This is another thread that I shall now avoid, along with the 84 other threads on the subject in the forum dedicated to it.

Yet you are very hyperemotional about issues you care about. Like the Religion forum for example. I've seen you get very hyperemotional in Flame Wars over gays etc. You are talking down to us Doc as if those of us who disagree with you don't know what the hell we are talking about and I don't appreciate it. This is not the first time you have stated that you were going to avoid this forum yet you keep coming back. Make up your mind.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

I hope that I never get so spiritually ethereal that I forget how to talk to a common man, nor become unapproachable using my religion as a social shield for human contact.

:unsmile: I agree, but using God's name in vain is beyond the pale. I've only met one Christian who rationalizes it by saying that he "interprets" the verse differently than everyone else.

[Warlady]

Well, I don't care a rootin'-toot. I think the article is very apropos, and made a great point -- even if allegorical. The phrase "no substantial likelihood of success" is disingenuous at best. When you are dealing with cases of life and death, ALL avenues should be exhausted before writing off the issues at hand as having no likelihood of success. NO ONE, not even the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States of America can predict the outcome of a case, hearing, trial, BEFORE the case has been brought, argued, and closing arguments given.

Think about it. Juries are impanelled every day across this land, chosen for their ability NOT to have a preconceived notion of the case before them, then they are charged to listen and weigh ALL the evidence, AFTER the case has closed.

Ya'll can think I'm a simple hill-billy if you want to, and look down your noses at me for not "understanding" the article, I don't care. I stand by my opinion.

Agree.

[Warlady]

Moo, I don't think "gawd" with a little g is using the Lord's name in vain. God is spelled with a capital G only.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

:unsmile: I am moving any further discussion of what constitutes a violation of the 3rd Commandment to Religion, Culture, & Education. I have copied & pasted the portion of this thread that has drifted to a new thread. I'd like to keep this forum reserved for discussion of what is happening to Terri. Thank you.

[Warlady]

Good idea but you started it lol.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

:smirky: Yeah, well, in my defense, this was still in Political when I started it.

[Rink]

In relation to what Doc has to say that all this concerning terry schiavo is 'hyper-emotionalism'

I say to you doc, Christ went to Lazarus and he raised him from the dead, had we kept to nature Christ wouldnt have done a thing.

Had we kept to nature The Apostles wouldnt have healed the sick and raised the dead.

With Life there is always hope and with faith in God there can always be chances of miracles.

If terry schiavo was unresponsive then why did she try to vocalize? Why did she interact wit her surroundings?

Who are you to say her life is not valid??

God gave us life, who are we to decide its not worth living, is not suicide in the AgofG church a sin?

And killing also a sin?

What the emotional points here Doc is the fact that right now, right here in America there is a Grave injustice being done to a human being.

Had terry schiavo been on a ventilator I could understand the argument, but she was not, she was receiving that which we ALL need, and that is food.

This is a Justice issue, and her rights are being trampled, justice is being perverted here for a wicked few, her life is her own, if her parents want to care for her the rest of her life who are you or ANYONR for that matte to say any otherwise?

God takes care of his own, and brain-damanged people wont know any better, their happiness is simple, all they need is love and caring and they are not miserable.

With Life theres always hope in every thing.

To deny a human being basic sustenance is a sin, and is tantamount to murder, Had terry schiavo actually said she didnt want to be in this condition then it I am sure would refer to the ventilatores etc, but I am Damned sure she wouldnt have asked to be starved and dehydrated to death in this manner, NOBODY would.

Whats being done to terry schiavo is nothing short of abject Cruelty at its highest, and her rights have been violated, and justice has been denied fully to this one woman.

Here we all can see the injustice of it, this is what makes us so mad, the injustice of this innocent woman being railroaded by a cabal of euthanasia-minded men whose only wont in this life is to push into America by Judicial precedence MORE killing of the innocent, and if they can get what they want by killing an innocent woman who I should thinkg would want to live then so be it.

Withholding food from a human breing is CRIMINAL, withholding evidence of abuse in this case is also Criminal, withholding justice for this woman is also Criminal and is in its entirety a travesty of Justice.

This nation will NOT be the same, and the justice that we once looked to for righting our wrongs will have died with terry schiavo.

THIS is the reason why we are so Angry Doc, THIS is the reason for what you call 'hyper-emotionalism'

Because we all here can see the Incredible Injuystice of it all concerning this one woman.

Condemn us not for our wont for justice, as you well know the beatitudes!!!



Christ's sermon upon the mount. The eight beatitudes.

1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain, and when he was set down, his disciples came unto him.

2 And opening his mouth he taught them, saying:

3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land.

5 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

6 Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill.

7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8 Blessed are the clean of heart: they shall see God.

9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

10 Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake:

12 Be glad and rejoice for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you.

13 You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt lose its savour, wherewith shall it be salted? It is good for nothing anymore but to be cast out, and to be trodden on by men.

14 You are the light of the world. A city seated on a mountain cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but upon a candlestick, that it may shine to all that are in the house.

16 So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

17 Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not kill. And whosoever shall kill, shall be in danger of the judgment.

22 But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

23 If therefore thou offer thy gift at the altar, and there thou remember that thy brother hath anything against thee;

24 Leave there thy offering before the altar, and go first to be reconciled to thy brother, and then coming thou shalt offer thy gift.

25 Be at agreement with thy adversary betimes, whilst thou art in the way with him: lest perhaps the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

26 Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.

27 You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not commit adultery.

28 But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart.

29 And if thy right eye scandalize thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee. For it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than thy whole body be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body go into hell.

31 And it hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a bill of divorce.

32 But I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, excepting the cause of fornication, maketh her to commit adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.

33 Again you have heard that it was said to them of old, thou shalt not forswear thyself: but thou shalt perform thy oaths to the Lord.

34 But I say to you not to swear at all, neither by heaven for it is the throne of God:

35 Nor by the earth, for it is his footstool: nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king:

36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

37 But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

38 You have heard that it hath been said: An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.

39 But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other:

40 And if a man will contend with thee in judgment, and take away thy coat, let go thy cloak also unto him.

41 And whosoever will force thee one mile, go with him other two.

42 Give to him that asketh of thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not away.

43 You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thy enemy.

44 But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you:

45 That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.

46 For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this?

47 And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this?

48 Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.

[Kathy29]

Living in a prison of flesh! How do you know what kind of enjoyment she gets out of life? Chris Reeve lived in a prison of flesh, unable to even breathe on his own Stephen Hawking lives in a prison of flesh, and how about the deaf and blind, talk about a prison of flesh!

We are going down a very ugly road here. When judges start making decisions on what's quality of life we have some very, very serious problems with where we're going.

Who do you personally know who lacks quality of life in YOUR judgment?

The homeless guy who panhandles on the corner.
The mentally retarded person who can't work.
The woman with Parkenson's disease who can't feed herself.
The drug addict unconscious in the park.
The girl born without a brain stem who is a vegetable but whose parents adore her anyway.
The quadraplegic who watches soaps all day.
The 80 year old sick person who depends on home health care workers to bring food and change diapers.

Who would you kill because you don't think they have a sufficient quality of life?