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Suzie
08-25-2002, 09:38 PM
Report finds millions behind bars in U.S.
Copyright © 2002 AP Online

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By JONATHAN D. SALANT, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (August 25, 2002 10:13 p.m. EDT) - One in every 32 adults in the United States was behind bars or on probation or parole by the end of last year, according to a government report Sunday that found a record 6.6 million people in the nation's correctional system.
The number of adults under supervision by the criminal justice system rose by 147,700, or 2.3 percent, between 2000 and 2001, the Justice Department reported. In 1990, almost 4.4 million adults were incarcerated or being supervised.

"The overall figures suggest that we've come to rely on the criminal justice system as a way of responding to social problems in a way that's unprecedented," said Marc Mauer, assistant director of the Sentencing Project, an advocacy and research group that favors alternatives to incarceration. "We're setting a new record every day."

Nearly 4 million people were on probation, 2.8 percent more than in 2000, while there was a 1 percent increase of those on parole, to 731,147. The number of people in prison grew by 1.1 percent to 1.3 million, the smallest annual increase in nearly three decades. There was a 1.6 percent increase of people in jails, to 631,240. More than half of those on probation - 53 percent - had been convicted of felonies, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics report.

Experts noted the recent trend of arrests declined for murder, rape and other violent crimes. Many of those on probation were convicted of using illegal drugs or driving while intoxicated, the report showed.

In addition, some states have eliminated mandatory minimum sentences for certain crimes. California's Proposition 36, passed in 2000 with 61 percent of the vote, requires treatment rather than incarceration for nonviolent drug offenders. Most of those drug users wind up on probation.

"The collection of reforms, from drug courts to treatment in lieu of incarceration to sentence reforms like getting rid of mandatory minimums and expanding community correction options, have the effect of redirecting people from prison to probation," said Nick Turner, director of national programs for the Vera Institute of Justice. The nonprofit research group works with governments on
MORE HERE (http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/512129p-4067839c.html)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> One in every 32 adults in the United States was behind bars or on probation or parole by the end of last year, according to a government report Sunday <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This seems unreal to me, I can't believe that's right. images/icons/shocked.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
08-25-2002, 09:44 PM
Criminalizing freedom creates criminals out of non-criminls.

Lighthouse_MIDI
08-25-2002, 10:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Berzerker:
Criminalizing freedom creates criminals out of non-criminls.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is an interesting statement. images/icons/rolleyes.gif
How naive I must be. I thought breaking the law created criminals out of non-criminals.
Gosh, my heart goes out to all those that have been in the pursuit of freedom and now find that they are a criminal. Who are these people anyway? I have never met or seen one. images/icons/grin.gif - Lighthouse

DesertFox
08-25-2002, 10:50 PM
Me, either.

The dysfunctional justice system caused the problem in the first place by not giving youthful offenders serious sentences to start with. Instead, they let them off by the hundreds of thousands, thus teaching young punks that crime pays because it isn't taken seriously. No deterrent effect had a chance to inhibit others.

**DONOTDELETE**
08-25-2002, 11:41 PM
Lighthouse - <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>That is an interesting statement. images/icons/rolleyes.gif How naive I must be. I thought breaking the law created criminals out of non-criminals.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Were the Nazis the criminals or the Germans they slaughtered under the guise of the "law"? Is Castro the criminal or the political dissidents he puts in cages? I guess it depends on which you believe came first - crime or government. I believe government's just mandate is to punish actions that are crimes even in the absence of government. If there was no government and someone tried to murder you, would you view the attacker as a criminal or would you need the opinion of a politician? Did the Founders consider themselves "criminals" for violating the laws of their government? The Declaration of Independence includes a list of what the Founders believed were crimes committed by their government. Your argument requires that no government can ever be "criminal" for slaughtering or caging "subjects", but we don't need an Iraqi law approved by Saddam to know he has committed crimes against Iraqis.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Gosh, my heart goes out to all those that have been in the pursuit of freedom and now find that they are a criminal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you would have been cheering when a government executed Jesus?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Who are these people anyway? I have never met or seen one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Many are dead, but the ones still alive include:

1) gun owners who violate guns laws like a number of the surviving "Branch Davidians".

2) illegal drug owners and sellers, including people who practice religions involving illegal drugs.

3) people convicted of being cruel to their animals.

4) parents and relatives convicted for having photos of their kids deemed "pornographic" by bureaucrats.

5) Employers convicted of "discriminatory" hiring practices (yeah, they usually just get a fine, but if they don't pay, well, you know).

6) people who refuse to pay taxes.

7) farmers who kill (accidently or not) "endangered species".

8) people who ask airport screeners if they really expect to find a gun in their wallet.

9) prostitutes and their customers.

10) gamblers.

11) consenting adults covicted of "sodomy".

12) every person in jail for personal behavior on private property permitted by the owner.

Freedom - the absence of coercion or constraint in choice or action.

Paraphrasing Lincoln's response to the alcohol prohibitionists of his time, prohibition laws seek to make a crime out of that which is not a crime; they strike a blow at the core principle upon which this nation was founded.

"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall otherwise leave them free to regulate their own pursuits of improvement and industry" - Thomas Jefferson

Warlady
08-26-2002, 04:32 AM
I agree we have too many ridiculous laws. I think Ayn Rand said it best:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lighthouse_MIDI
08-26-2002, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by Berzerker:
Lighthouse - So you would have been cheering when a government executed Jesus?
This is beyond laughable. You are comparing the actions of what the Roman Empire & Jewish leadership did, to a democratic government that has a legal system slanted in such a way as to let an O.J. Simpson walk away from a double murder. Remember now, we have religious freedom in America. Are you asserting that Jesus got a fair trial to? images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Many are dead, but the ones still alive include:{1) gun owners, 2) illegal drug owners and sellers, 3) people convicted of being cruel to their animals. 4) parents and relatives convicted for having photos of their kids deemed "pornographic" by bureaucrats, {5) Employers convicted of "discriminatory" hiring practices,
6) people who refuse to pay taxes.
7) farmers who kill (accidentally or not) "endangered species", 8) people who ask airport screeners if they really expect to find a gun in their wallet,9) prostitutes and their customers. 10) gamblers,
11) consenting adults convicted of "sodomy",
12) every person in jail for personal behavior on private property permitted by the owner.
Excuse me! These are all situations where people broke the law. Our laws are not indiscriminately made by dictators as you imply. They are the outcome of a democratic process. Like Warlady said, we probably have a few too many ridiculous laws but in every situation you mention above, someone knew they were breaking the law when they committed the act. Please provide me a real situation where someone is rotting in jail because they accidentally killed an endangered species.

Paraphrasing Lincoln's response to the alcohol prohibitionists of his time, prohibition laws seek to make a crime out of that which is not a crime; they strike a blow at the core principle upon which this nation was founded.
I agree with you here. In case you aren't aware, alcohol is now legal. If you are trying to make the lame comparison to drugs, you are talking apples and oranges.

"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall otherwise leave them free to regulate their own pursuits of improvement and industry" - Thomas Jefferson
Yea, I like Thomas Jefferson to. He said some pretty thoughtful things. images/icons/grin.gif
- Lighthouse

Warlady
08-26-2002, 09:58 AM
I think Berzerker would prefer no government and no laws. That's just not possible in a country with 280 million people.

Suzie
08-26-2002, 10:32 AM
I never want to be chipping my kids out of concrete someday, let's keep the laws and actually CARRY OUT the punishment given by the jury. I think we need to find TOUGHER ones for the slime that preys on our children. Maybe the media coverage of this recently will show people how abusive people can become gruesome killers and drugs make that worse. Just because they find them guilty the first time doesn't mean it acually was the first time. images/icons/frown.gif