View Full Version : Jeb Bush: I'd Love to Help, But I Can't
He has the right by law, but he cops out, nice Jeb! :hissyfit:
STARVATION: DAY 10
Jeb Bush: 'I'd love to help, but I can't'
Florida governor says he doesn't have power from Constitution to intervene
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Posted: March 27, 2005
6:37 p.m. Eastern
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, the man said to be the last hope for Terri Schiavo, says he's powerless to help the brain-injured woman who has been without nourishment for more than nine full days.
"I cannot violate a court order," Bush told CNN following Easter church services. "I don't have powers from the United States Constitution or – for that matter from the Florida Constitution – that would allow me to intervene after a decision has been made."
To Terri's parents, Bush said, "I can't. I'd love to, but I can't."
Speaking to the media for the first time in three days, the governor added, "I'm sad that she's in the situation that she's in. I feel bad for her family. My heart goes out to the Schindlers and, for that matter, to [her husband] Michael," Bush said. "This has not been an easy thing for any, any member of the family. But most particularly for Terri Schiavo."
Meanwhile, protests have continued outside the hospice where Terri is being cared for. With security having been doubled, five people were taken into custody as pastors tried to bring Schiavo Easter communion.
A handful of people in wheelchairs got out of them and shouted, "We're not dead yet!" as they lay in the driveway.
Larry Klayman, founder of the legal watchdog group Judicial Watch, said Bush has the power to grant her clemency, just as he would in a death-row case.
"We're asking the governor for a stay of execution on Easter Sunday, a day of mercy,'' Klayman said. "For Jeb Bush not to act would be a dereliction of his duty to the people of the state of Florida.''
More on the spinelessness of our Politicians (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43518)
Apollo5600
03-27-2005, 08:35 PM
Wussy
It seems ALL of our politicians and elected officials have all but handed the power to rule America over to the Judiciary, and they have ruled that Euthanasia should be the 'Law of the Land'
God help us all.
DesertFox
03-27-2005, 08:46 PM
He means, "I can't if I want to run for president someday."
I just lost respect for you, Governor.
I aint votin for him thats for DAMNED Sure
He just handed our contry to the Black Robed tyrants in his spinelessness.
He could have the presidency but what good is it if he cant do a thing with it without the express permission of the courts to do anything as a president???
Its moot.
EveningStar
03-27-2005, 08:58 PM
Jeb did the right thing. He obeyed the law.
NO the Courts BROKE the law and the politicians will not Make the courts adhere to the LAW!
Judge Greer and Michael Schiavo: Collusive Law Breaking in Attempts to End Terri's Life (http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/judge_greer_broke_law_kill_terri.html)
Read the law on Florida's books and YOU tell me if the courts acted lawfully here!!!
relevant links:
http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm...744->Section (http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0744/SEC3215.HTM&Title=->2003->Ch0744->Section) 3215
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm...744->Section (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0744/SEC2025.HTM&Title=->2003->Ch0744->Section) 2025
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm...744->Section (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0744/SEC3145.HTM&Title=->2003->Ch0744->Section) 3145
http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm...003->Chapter (http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0825/titl0825.htm&StatuteYear=2003&Title=->2003->Chapter) 825
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm...825->Section (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0825/SEC103.HTM&Title=->2003->Ch0825->Section) 103
EveningStar
03-27-2005, 09:09 PM
Rink,
Only a higher court can overrule a lower court. The only recourse people have for an errant judge is removal from office: that's impeachement for a federal judge, the ballot box for a local judge.
That's all you can do.
EveningStar
03-27-2005, 09:10 PM
Incidentally, Jeb is not George. He has no chance of winning in '08.
Excuse me but since when has the courts become more powerful than the Duly Elected officials who put the judges IN Those courts?
Jeb Bush has all the constitution of Florida AND the US Constitution backing him, and Congress has all the rights to limit the judiciary when they are in the wrong but Absolutely nobody has the backbone to do so.
They all have allowed the courts to take power from the Legislature AND the executive branches for their own, the Judiciary were supposed to be the weakest branch of this Republic, since when do THEY legislate by fiat and tell the Legislatures and the executive branches what they can and cannot do?
This is abuse of power and judicial tyranny at its best and it MUST be curbed or this nation as a republic will be LOST!
If Jeb isnt george then why is he being a spineless idiot when it comes to a judiciary telling HIM and the Florida legislature what to do or what they can and cant do when the constitution of Florida and the US constitution says OTHERWISE?
he wants to run.
he doesnt want to ruin that chance.
EveningStar
03-27-2005, 09:30 PM
Jeb may not be quite able to fill George's shoes but he did the right thing in this case.
It's separation of powers.
scuse me by Florida State Law Jeb Bush CAN intervene, but he lacks the backbone to do so, just as the Florida legislature lost the will to tell the courts to mind their place as well.
As for the separation of powers thats LONG lost, as the courts have LONG overreached their power by grabbing Legislative and executive power to themselves and unconstitutionally legislating by fiat and telling Our elected officials what they can and cant do when the VConstitution of the Florida state and the US constitution states otherwise in their respective abilities in what they can and cant do in upholding an American citizens constitutional rights, especially a helpless innocent American citizen.
Jeb Bush as govenor can commute the sentences of felons from death row but he is being prevented from commuting this woman's sentence of death by a runaway judiciary who have all but broke EVERY single law on the books in Florida state as well as crapped on the US Constitution.
Rink is right. We are a constitutional republic, not a judicial oligarchy. It's long past time for the Bush boys to be men and tell the "judges" to go **** themselves.
Rink is right. We are a constitutional republic, not a judicial oligarchy. It's long past time for the Bush boys to be men and tell the "judges" to go **** themselves.
Hear! Hear!! :claps:
We dont put to death Convicted murderers on CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence now do we?
NO, but America's courts have all but sentenced one INNOCENT American citizen to death ON Circumstantial evidence here.
EveningStar
03-27-2005, 10:15 PM
The courts did not rule in our favor. I've already said how to handle it: have the judges lawfully removed from office.
Jeb did a great job. I'm glad he didn't screw things up by breaking the law.
EveningStar
03-27-2005, 10:20 PM
If there are riots it will be a time of shame.
Nobody will do anything, this nation's people are apathetic to a point thie nation is lost to us.
I think this is America's fate.
The Apocalypse of Saint John the Apostle
Chapter 18
The fall of Babylon. Kings and merchants lament over her.
1 And after these things, I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power: and the earth was enlightened with his glory.
2 And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen: and is become the habitation of devils and the hold of every unclean spirit and the hold of every unclean and hateful bird:
3 Because all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication: and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her; And the merchants of the earth have been made rich by the power of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying: Go out from her, my people; that you be not partakers of her sins and that you receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven: and the Lord hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Render to her as she also hath rendered to you: and double unto her double, according to her works. In the cup wherein she hath mingled, mingle ye double unto her.
7 As much as she hath glorified herself and lived in delicacies, so much torment and sorrow give ye to her. Because she saith in her heart: I sit a queen and am no widow: and sorrow I shall not see.
8 Therefore, shall her plagues come in one day, death and mourning and famine. And she shall be burnt with the fire: because God is strong, who shall judge her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived in delicacies with her, shall weep and bewail themselves over her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning:
10 Standing afar off for fear of her torments, saying: Alas! alas! that great city, Babylon, that mighty city: for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her: for no man shall buy their merchandise any more.
12 Merchandise of gold and silver and precious stones: and of pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet: and all thyine wood: and all manner of vessels of ivory: and all manner of vessels of precious stone and of brass and of iron and of marble:
13 And cinnamon and odours and ointment and frankincense and wine and oil and fine flour and wheat and beasts and sheep and horses and chariots: and slaves and souls of men.
14 And the fruits of the desire of thy soul are departed from thee: and all fat and goodly things are perished from thee. And they shall find them no more at all.
15 The merchants of these things, who were made rich, shall stand afar off from her, for fear of her torments, weeping and mourning,
16 And saying: Alas! alas! that great city, which was clothed with fine linen and purple and scarlet and was gilt with gold and precious stones and pearls.
17 For in one hour are so great riches come to nought. And every shipmaster and all that sail into the lake, and mariners, and as many as work in the sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried, seeing the place of her burning, saying: What city is like to this great city?
19 And they cast dust upon their heads and cried, weeping and mourning, saying: Alas! alas! that great city, wherein all were made rich, that had ships at sea, by reason of her prices. For, in one hour she is made desolate.
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven and ye holy apostles and prophets. For God hath judged your judgment on her.
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone, as it were a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying: With such violence as this, shall Babylon, that great city, be thrown down and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers and of musicians and of them that play on the pipe and on the trumpet shall no more be heard at all in thee: and no craftsman of any art whatsoever shall be found any more at all in thee: and the sound of the mill shall be heard no more at all in thee:
23 And the light of the lamp shall shine no more at all in thee: and the voice of the bridegroom and the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee. For thy merchants were the great men of the earth: for all nations have been deceived by thy enchantments.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all that were slain upon the earth.
If there are riots it will be a time of shame.
This ALREADY IS a time of Shame, when our courts can order an innocent American woman's death without due process.
this is nothing more than Murder by Judicial fiat.
THAT is shameful.
EveningStar
03-27-2005, 10:26 PM
Rink,
Is this going to happen because of Terri?
ConservativeYouthMovement
03-27-2005, 10:29 PM
Lets face it, if Jeb Bush ordered anything done the same judges to kill Terri Schiavo would overturn it. Too bad thered be riots if the national gaurd intervened anyway.
I never thought Id want a dictatorship, but if it stops these lunatics it would be ok for a few months to remove them.
Rink,
Is this going to happen because of Terri?
This will happen because of the direction America's entire judiciary has taken and the fact that our elected politicians are too cowardly to stand up to them thus allowing Judicial tyranny to rule America with an iron fist ushering in euthanasia, and allowing even MORE slaughtering of the innocent in the name of 'expediency'
EveningStar
03-27-2005, 10:30 PM
CONSERVATIVES DO NOT RIOT!
ONLY LEFTISTS RIOT!
Coach
03-27-2005, 10:36 PM
I am confused...I have watched the discussions posted here, but I don't understand what Jeb could have done without violating the law. What am I missing, and how did this somehow become an attack on Jeb Bush? I have reviewed his efforts, and I just don't see what people are saying he could have done lawfully that he hasn't tried.
NO Conservatives dont have the balls to enact change, they're too 'nice' too law-abiding too meek to do Anything to stop tyranny and travesty of justice here, and one innocent American citizen has been convicted and sentenced to death without due process because the courts have spoken, the people are too brainwashed to say any otherwise and the politicians too scared for their 'political careers' to do anything and yet if they realize it, if they do NOT act their political careers will be MOOT after this innocent woman dies, because if its allowed, then America the republic will have died with her and the nation will be ruled by an emboldened Judicial tyranny of the likes America has never seen since the days of King george. of Old England.
EveningStar
03-27-2005, 10:38 PM
I am confused...I have watched the discussions posted here, but I don't understand what Jeb could have done without violating the law. What am I missing, and how did this somehow become an attack on Jeb Bush? I have reviewed his efforts, and I just don't see what people are saying he could have done lawfully that he hasn't tried.
Jeb did all he could. He does not deserve this criticism.
I am confused...I have watched the discussions posted here, but I don't understand what Jeb could have done without violating the law. What am I missing, and how did this somehow become an attack on Jeb Bush? I have reviewed his efforts, and I just don't see what people are saying he could have done lawfully that he hasn't tried.
Read this and UNDERSTAND the courts have violated just bout every florida law and statute there is ont he books concerning this issue in order to kill off one human being.
765.309 Florida Statute: Mercy Killing of Euthanasia Not Authorized; Suicide Distinguished. -- (1) Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to condone, authorize, or approve mercy killing or euthanasia, or to permit any affirmative or deliberate act of omission to end the life other than to permit the natural process of dying. (2) The withholding or withdrawal of life-prolonging procedures from a patient in accordance with any provision of this chapter does not, for any purpose, constitute a suicide.
458.326 Florida Statute: Intractable Pain; Authorized Treatment. -- (4) Nothing in this section shall be construed to condone, authorize, or approve mercy killing or euthanasia, and no treatment authorized by this section may be used for such purpose.
782.08 Florida Statute: Assisting Self-Murder. -- Every person deliberately assisting another in the commission of self-murder shall be guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s.775.082, s. 775.083 or s.775.084.
relevant links:
http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm...744->Section (http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0744/SEC3215.HTM&Title=->2003->Ch0744->Section) 3215
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm...744->Section (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0744/SEC2025.HTM&Title=->2003->Ch0744->Section) 2025
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm...744->Section (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0744/SEC3145.HTM&Title=->2003->Ch0744->Section) 3145
http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm...003->Chapter (http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0825/titl0825.htm&StatuteYear=2003&Title=->2003->Chapter) 825
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm...825->Section (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0825/SEC103.HTM&Title=->2003->Ch0825->Section) 103
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/judge_greer_broke_law_kill_terri.html
Coach
03-27-2005, 10:43 PM
NO Conservatives dont have the balls to enact change, they're too 'nice' too law-abiding too meek to do Anything to stop tyranny and travesty of justice here, and one innocent American citizen has been convicted and sentenced to death without due process because the courts have spoken, the people are too brainwashed to say any otherwise and the politicians too scared for their 'political careers' to do anything and yet if they realize it, if they do NOT act their political careers will be MOOT after this innocent woman dies, because if its allowed, then America the republic will have died with her and the nation will be ruled by an emboldened Judicial tyranny of the likes America has never seen since the days of King george. of Old England.
I must disagree. I think this proves the need for appointment of judges who support and enforce the law. I do not agree that the death of this innocent women will mean the end of the republic, but the need to force the issue of judicial appointees who believe in the law enacted by our representatives, our elected officials.
Jeb did all he could. He does not deserve this criticism.
If thats the case then Jeb Bush doesnt have the right to commute Convicted murderers from death row, since this is a true court sentence of death on this woman, Jeb Bush is well within his right to not only commute her sentence but also use the Florida CPA to seize protective custody of her as a witness to abuse and possible attemt at murder.
Coach
03-27-2005, 10:45 PM
Read this and UNDERSTAND the courts have violated just bout every florida law and statute there is ont he books concerning this issue in order to kill off one human being.
I don't disagree with your arguement, but only that Jeb can overrule the courts.
Jeb can seize Terry schiavo as A witness to the abuse, and attempted murder of her by her husband i.e. be placed in protective custody since the courts in florida are all but corrupt and too willing to sentence her todeath.
EveningStar
03-27-2005, 10:51 PM
I must disagree. I think this proves the need for appointment of judges who support and enforce the law. I do not agree that the death of this innocent women will mean the end of the republic, but the need to force the issue of judicial appointees who believe in the law enacted by our representatives, our elected officials.
You get it. Well said.
Coach
03-27-2005, 10:52 PM
If there is anything he can, or could have done, and he does not, he deserves any and all criticism. I just have not seen anything else he could have done. I think the attention given to him, instead of the real murderers, distracts from the realization that our courts are out of control and need some serious changes.
EveningStar
03-27-2005, 11:29 PM
The father is within his right to take matters into his own hands and recruit any help he needs to do so.
That would be vigilante action. That would be breaking the law. He won't do it.
EveningStar
03-27-2005, 11:44 PM
It's a bit early to call for the 2nd Revolution. Deep breath time.
Hybrid_Angel
03-27-2005, 11:55 PM
This ALREADY IS a time of Shame, when our courts can order an innocent American woman's death without due process.
this is nothing more than Murder by Judicial fiat.
THAT is shameful.
This case has been in the courts for 8 years! It has been seen over a dozen times by different judges who have all ruled in favor of Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo. Are we to understand that all these judges are just out for Terri's blood? That is absolutely ludicrous!
This case has been in the courts for 8 years! It has been seen over a dozen times by different judges who have all ruled in favor of Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo. Are we to understand that all these judges are just out for Terri's blood? That is absolutely ludicrous!
Funny thing convicted murderers can appeal for 20+ years and thatsa quite fine but an innocent woman appeals for 8 years and thats NOT ok?
Mighty screwed up priorities I might say, especially when this innocent woman has had no due process given to her.
Which she has a right to by the Constitution hence the courts have violated the laws ont he books and her constitutional rights by denying her due process.
Hybrid_Angel
03-28-2005, 12:50 AM
Funny thing convicted murderers can appeal for 20+ years and thatsa quite fine but an innocent woman appeals for 8 years and thats NOT ok?
Mighty screwed up priorities I might say, especially when this innocent woman has had no due process given to her.
Which she has a right to by the Constitution hence the courts have violated the laws ont he books and her constitutional rights by denying her due process.
I love how you emotionally charge your language to avoid having a discussion. It is the parents that are appealing, not the "innocent woman." It is pretty clear the "innocent woman" didn't want to live 50 years starring at a blank wall in a hospital room.
How much is enough until you consider it due process? 10 years? 20 years? Until she's dead? Until the parents win? That is just silly. Under those last two definitions of it, the court can't make any decisions at all! 20 plus court hearings under multiple different judges is definitely "due process."
Besides, due process doesn't mean anything like what you are saying it means. Due process is "all the administration of justice according to established rules and principles; based on the principle that a person cannot be deprived of life or liberty or property without appropriate legal procedures and safeguards." So due process means you have the right to fair procedures that have already been established. According to that definition, due process has clearly been done in this case.
And whose word alone has this been predicated upon??
Michael sachiavo's word. try reading the other threads here then come back to me and You tell me Terry wants to die in this horrid form and fashion ok? she isnt terminal.
She may never have said a thing, its the classic he said-she said' argument and its all hypothesis, and we as a nation in the courts do not condemn a person to death on circumstantial evidence.
Go read the rest of the thread kay?
Hybrid_Angel
03-28-2005, 01:16 AM
I have read the arguments that Mrs. Schiavo wasn't clear about dying or not. I simply disagree with the conclusion you are trying to make. I think Terri Schiavo wanted to die in this situation. I agree with there isn't much evidence, since it is based only on testimony from Michael and Terri's friends. But it is what courts usually have to make an informed opinion on, since only like 20% of people ever bother making living wills, and those who do make their living wills too vague to be of any service.
The reason Michael gets the say over is because he is her husband! Spouses trump parents in making these kind of decisions. That is always the case. You don't really choose your parents, but you do choose your spouse who usually knows you better than your parents do.
As to the method of Mrs. Schiavo's death, it isn't like we really have a choice, and you don't want there to be a choice! Should we euthanize her? That is illegal because of people that fight against it. Besides, this isn't going to be painful for Terri anyway. She is missing the portion of her brain that interprets pain, so she won't feel anything. Even if she wasn't tens of thousands of people die by dehydration every year in the US, quite a few of which choose to do so themselves. Our brain responds to dying by sending out pleasurable chemicals. Most people feel a sense of euphoria when approaching death.
So a man who shacks up with another woman yet calls himself a 'loving husband' can literally control and own another woman's life or death?
Nice one
Hybrid_Angel
03-28-2005, 01:28 AM
I just saw about an hour ago on the local news that the retired priest that was allowed to give her communion,, came out and in tear filled voice stated that Terri was very much alive, she knew he was there and knew she was getting communion.
What makes him qualified to make such a statement after spending one hour with this women when many upon many neurologists and doctors spend days with her evaluating her condition and reach the exact opposite conclusion?
Those evil doctors, always wanting to kill people.
They rendered our constitution as nothing but a mere piece of USELESS PAPER. Our founders along with GOD must be in total disgust.
The procedures the judges went through have been well established and they did it entirely legally. If you want to decry something as unconstitutional, why not the congress, who blatantly stepped into state business?
I have read the arguments that Mrs. Schiavo wasn't clear about dying or not. I simply disagree with the conclusion you are trying to make. I think Terri Schiavo wanted to die in this situation. I agree with there isn't much evidence, since it is based only on testimony from Michael and Terri's friends. But it is what courts usually have to make an informed opinion on, since only like 20% of people ever bother making living wills, and those who do make their living wills too vague to be of any service.
If she wasnt clear then the courts and our politicians have a right and duty to err on the side of life as ther has been no reasonable doubt as to whether she can recover or not as its never been given a chance.
A person is not condemned to death on hearsay and circumstantial evidence
The reason Michael gets the say over is because he is her husband! Spouses trump parents in making these kind of decisions. That is always the case. You don't really choose your parents, but you do choose your spouse who usually knows you better than your parents do.
So i take it the people that brought you into this world havbe absolutely no say in whether or not their child is to live or not because the spouse owns them body and soul via a marriage contract? I guess marriage is nothing more than ownership in your eyes, nice, a woman can have a right to say over her own body when it comes to abortion, but when it comes to her own life others have ultimate say because of a contract.
As to the method of Mrs. Schiavo's death, it isn't like we really have a choice, and you don't want there to be a choice! Should we euthanize her? That is illegal because of people that fight against it. Besides, this isn't going to be painful for Terri anyway. She is missing the portion of her brain that interprets pain, so she won't feel anything. Even if she wasn't tens of thousands of people die by dehydration every year in the US, quite a few of which choose to do so themselves. Our brain responds to dying by sending out pleasurable chemicals. Most people feel a sense of euphoria when approaching death.
Are you a doctor? Who says she knows whats goin on or not?? Who the hell are you to say otherwise? the physician profession is replete with humongous mistakes and they dont know everything.
Another thing, Terry Schiavo is indeed being Euthanized, the only thing here is its slow and gruesomely painful, I do not think terry would have opted for that kind of death, nobody would.
And she was not on 'life support, she was not in a misewrable state, she was not terminal so this is a moot thing, shis should not be happening, her life is HERS, give her the chance of rehabilitation and allow her to decide for herself, but they wont and havent because they fear she will finger them for attempted MURDER!
And they cant have that
Hybrid_Angel
03-28-2005, 01:42 AM
Terri Schiavo was in this situation for five years before Michael started dating anybody else. This girl isn't a "whore" and Michael Schiavo isn't "shaking up" with her. This is simply slander, and is entirely pointless. Michael clearly isn't in it for the money. Of the original lawsuit, only 50,000 out of 1 million dollars is left. The rest has been spent on Terri and lawyers. Michael was offered millions to divorce his wife and give custody to the Schindlers and he refused. To top it all off, he has even said he will not accept the money he will get from her death. Michael isn't some sort of saint, but he isn't satan incarnate either.
Michael Schiavo wishes of his wife weren't even considered during the court cases. The courts were primarily concerned with what Mrs. Terri Schiavo's wishes on the subject were. Numerously and repeatedly after listening to testimony from people they determined that the scant evidence pointed to Terri not wanting to be kept alive in this condition.
Terri's condition is horrible. She literally has no brain, and cannot be rehabilitated. She isn't some Kate Adamson who will jump up from the bed. Rehabilitation has been tried quite a few times on Terri. Yes she doesn't need something to breathe for her, but she cannot be "fixed."
You have no heart or soul. You are the angel of the devil as far as i am concerned.
Glad to know I'm a demon. Thanks for informing me. (Btw, a majority of people in this country [spanning across democrats, republicans, evangelicals, etc.] all think that the government should not to anything. IE, let Terri die. Do you believe that a majority of people in the USA are demons? Just curious.)
Hybrid_Angel
03-28-2005, 01:54 AM
Michael Schiavo Plans to Cremate Terri
Michael Schiavo has taken steps that will prevent investigators from examining Terri Schiavo's body for evidence of abuse after she dies [snip]
Can you think of any other reason why people would have somebody cremated? And are you really suggesting that Michael has been abusing Terri in the hospital for the last 15 years? He became a nurse to what, beat her up? This doesn't hold any water at all.
I like how it also alludes to Michael abusing Terri, and that is why she went into the coma. The only problem is, through doctor examinations we know that she had her heart attack which caused her current vegetative state because she was bulimic.
To suggest that the Schindler's are right in their allegations demands a massive conspiracy of doctors and judges who all wanted Terri Schiavo dead. I've read thread after thread where you bemoan liberals for being nutjobs and conspiracy theorists, and yet here you are.
Hybrid_Angel
03-28-2005, 02:04 AM
If she wasnt clear then the courts and our politicians have a right and duty to err on the side of life as ther has been no reasonable doubt as to whether she can recover or not as its never been given a chance.
I didn't say I agreed that evidence was not clear, just that I had heard the arguments in favor of that conclusion. Btw, Michael Schiavo, when he was in court, told the Schindler's that they could bring in doctors and do the stuff yet again, but only if they took the results as conclusive. They wouldn't have that though.
So i take it the people that brought you into this world havbe absolutely no say in whether or not their child is to live or not because the spouse owns them body and soul via a marriage contract? I guess marriage is nothing more than ownership in your eyes, nice, a woman can have a right to say over her own body when it comes to abortion, but when it comes to her own life others have ultimate say because of a contract.
"Wow, do I see a mountain of strawmen here, Jim?"
"Why yes, Bob, yes you do."
Are you a doctor? Who says she knows whats goin on or not?? Who the hell are you to say otherwise? the physician profession is replete with humongous mistakes and they dont know everything.
So since doctors have made mistakes in the past, they do not know anything? This is a huge non-sequitor.
Another thing, Terry Schiavo is indeed being Euthanized, the only thing here is its slow and gruesomely painful, I do not think terry would have opted for that kind of death, nobody would.
Did you even read my post? Thousands of people opt to die this way, because it really isn't at gruesome as you are making it out to be. I've talked to many people who's parent or grandparent opted to die this way. I've known others who simply blow their brains out with a gun. Aren't you glad these people can die with dignity?
And she was not on 'life support, she was not in a misewrable state, she was not terminal so this is a moot thing, shis should not be happening, her life is HERS, give her the chance of rehabilitation and allow her to decide for herself, but they wont and havent because they fear she will finger them for attempted MURDER!
And they cant have that
Where is the rolling eyes emoticon?
I have never said that she was on life support, or that she was miserable or terminal. So it is indeed a moot thing. She has had multiple chances at rehabilitation. Let the poor women's living corpse die already.
CzechPrince
03-28-2005, 03:25 AM
I am still perplexed by this whole thing, and I almost teared up watching the videos. I pride myself not on many things, but being able to separate my politics from my religion/emotions is one thing I can do, and so I am..let me know what you think....
If the parents are willing, obviously, to take care of her, and Michael is saying somthing that MIGHT (50/50 basically) be true--there is no way for us to know truly, since Terri did not leave a living will. I don't think we are in any position to take one man's word over the life of a human being, especially when the parents are willing to take full responsibility for her.
Anyway, that is just my opinion.
Beowulf
03-28-2005, 03:34 AM
I just read through this whole thread. I'm not going to address individuals or individual issues but repeat what I've said elsewhere.
I do think Jeb Bush is being unfairly attacked. He is doing something the Democrats don't do....obeying the law. The judiciary has done a good job in keeping him from doing what he would LIKE to do. I don't think this has anything to do with him running or not running for president. Leave Jeb alone and attack the real problem, our broken legal system who has given a death sentence to an innocent woman.
I've said before that what we need is sweeping judiciary reform in America. The courts have well demonstrated all over America on a variety of issues that if they don't like a law, they rule it unconstitutional and overturn it. As I've asked before, why bother making laws when they will undoubtedly be overturned. I've long said the judges need to be elected official on ALL levels and that's but a start to judiciary reform.
I will agree with Rink on one of her statements that the Bushes are meek. But hey, we all appear that way when we obey the law and other's don't. If George Bush handled the Schiavo issue like he did Iraq and terrorism, it would have ended the debate long ago. This brings me back to my original point of reforming the judicial system and we will do that legally by legislation introduced in Washington. Make it so that judges can't just overturn a law with one ruling and make judges elected officials.
Apollo5600
03-28-2005, 03:54 AM
How much is enough until you consider it due process? 10 years? 20 years? Until she's dead? Until the parents win? That is just silly. Under those last two definitions of it, the court can't make any decisions at all! 20 plus court hearings under multiple different judges is definitely "due process."
How about review ALL of the Evidence in an increasingly confusing case rather than killing her off based on faulty testimony by her husband. The Fed Court was supposed to do this, as it was directed by Congress to start a-new, though it failed to do so.
The reason Michael gets the say over is because he is her husband! Spouses trump parents in making these kind of decisions. That is always the case. You don't really choose your parents, but you do choose your spouse who usually knows you better than your parents do.
What kindof twisted world are you living in? Her parents who raised her and brought her into this world don't know her better then the husband? Infact, Terri was even talking of divorcing him shortly before she collapsed!
Apollo5600
03-28-2005, 03:57 AM
Did you even read my post? Thousands of people opt to die this way, because it really isn't at gruesome as you are making it out to be. I've talked to many people who's parent or grandparent opted to die this way. I've known others who simply blow their brains out with a gun. Aren't you glad these people can die with dignity?
Nowonder your all ****ed up.
So it is indeed a moot thing. She has had multiple chances at rehabilitation. Let the poor women's living corpse die already.
She was declined rehabilitation by her husband.
In 1992, Michael Schiavo sued for malpractice and won over a $1 million. He was personally awarded $300,000 for his "loss" and $700,000 for Terri's rehabilitation and care for the rest of her natural life. However, the therapy, after the award, was not approved by Michael Schiavo and she was confined to a nursing home after the settlement.
It was after the settlement that Michael first claimed that Terri had previously stated that she didn't want to be kept alive by artificial means — a statement he never mentioned during the malpractice trial. He has never produced any written proof that Terri said that.
Beginning almost immediately after receiving the malpractice funds, Michael Schiavo, as Terri's legal guardian, began to refuse approval for ANY therapy or rehabilitation efforts and she has been confined to bed.
Since 1995, Michael Schiavo has lived openly with a girlfriend, Jodi Centonze, with whom he has two children, while remaining legally married to Terri, as well as being her legal her guardian.
In 1998, Michael Schiavo petitioned the court to have Terri's feeding tube removed. In 2003, Michael Schiavo's attorneys reported that the trust fund was down to $50,000, with more than $430,000 going to "pay for court costs associated with her husband's legal battle to remove his wife's feeding tube." Meanwhile, Medicaid helps to pay Terri's $5,000-a-month nursing costs at a hospice in Pinellas Park, Florida. 13
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1371722/posts
posted by Web at http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20459
DesertFox
03-28-2005, 06:16 AM
ES, you've been missing lately and so haven't seen our supplementary comments on what the other branches should do to rein in the out-of- control judicial branch. I think it's time for the executive branch to do what Andrew Jackson did in the 1820s in a similar situation. "The judge has made his decision. Now let him enforce it."
When one side doesn't play by the rules, the others are idiots to let themselves be pistol whipped by those same rules.
Longhorn_Platinum
03-28-2005, 06:30 AM
If there are riots it will be a time of shame.
:sulk: The time of shame is the day of Terri's death. The time of shame is the weeks that she's beïng allowed to die. It seems that for you, up is down, & down is up. Buy a clue.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 07:20 AM
I don't blame Jeb either. He doesn't believe he has the power to do anything or he would. We threw a fit when Bill Clinton and Janet Reno overrode a court decision in the Elian Gonzales case and sent in the armed INS agents to kidnap him. Now we want Jeb to do the same thing. Color me confused.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 07:26 AM
If there is anything he can, or could have done, and he does not, he deserves any and all criticism. I just have not seen anything else he could have done. I think the attention given to him, instead of the real murderers, distracts from the realization that our courts are out of control and need some serious changes.
I totally agree with this post. Another point, if euthanasia is illegal in the state of Florida then the Schindler's lawyers were derelict in their duties to not point this out to the judge. They should have been screaming this to the media, the courts and in their filed briefs.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 07:30 AM
ES, you've been missing lately and so haven't seen our supplementary comments on what the other branches should do to rein in the out-of- control judicial branch. I think it's time for the executive branch to do what Andrew Jackson did in the 1820s in a similar situation. "The judge has made his decision. Now let him enforce it."
When one side doesn't play by the rules, the others are idiots to let themselves be pistol whipped by those same rules.
But Fox, in this case the judge is enforcing it. He has Terri under armed guard. It's the saddest thing I've ever witnessed. The family has to go through several checkpoints to get to their loved one, Terri. They are practically strip searched. It's one thing to remove her feeding tube but another altogether to not even allow her to try to drink by mouth when she can swallow her own saliva. This is murder, judicial homicide.
Longhorn_Platinum
03-28-2005, 07:32 AM
:unsmile: There's one other thing I think needs to be said. The battle over euthanasia is far from over, in spite of this case. Yes, the pro-death crowd will win a major victory, but I still think the precedent can be set back. Instead of wringing our hands over what has been lost, we should be strategizing on how to get it back.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 07:43 AM
Terri will not die in vain Moo. I think many state legislatures will revise their laws. But the problem still lies with rogue judges legislating from the bench and overruling the will of the people.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 09:06 AM
mom, I don't see things quite as grim as you do.
DesertFox
03-28-2005, 09:09 AM
The family has to go through several checkpoints to get to their loved one, Terri. They are practically strip searched. It's one thing to remove her feeding tube but another altogether to not even allow her to try to drink by mouth when she can swallow her own saliva. This is murder, judicial homicide.
Which underscores what I said. When the judges won't play by the rules, it's asinine for the executive branch to let rules stand in the way. We NEED a confrontation or else the judges will just get bolder and bolder.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 09:24 AM
Our judges have been getting bolder and bolder for decades. Not all judges are corrupt or without compassion though. Mostly just the liberal ones. Our courts are supposed to be the final decision makers unless the legislature changes the law. However, the Florida supremes and other liberal judges keep claiming the ones they don't like are unconstitutional. That's our problem.
DesertFox
03-28-2005, 09:41 AM
The courts are supposed to have the final say on Constitutionality. They are not supposed to have any say whatsoever on anything the other branches do that is within the law; and they're dang sure not supposed to have any say on what TO do in a case.
It would be good if one of us had to say anything on this case to protect Terri from starving. :/
Warlady
03-28-2005, 10:07 AM
What I don't understand is if euthanasia is against the law in Florida why is it happening? Does Judge Greer know it's against the law? If not why not. Is so why is he violating the law? Why is he being allowed to by the federal courts?
DesertFox
03-28-2005, 10:12 AM
He's violating the law because he can get away with it. No one's stopping him so, like a runaway train, he's going where he damn well pleases and just making it up as he goes along. That's why somebody in the executive branch has to do something. You can't stop runaway trains with standard roadblocks. A Constitutional confrontation is the only thing that has a chance.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 10:48 AM
Well Fox since all the courts including the SCOTUS have either sided with Michael or refused to hear the case I don't know what you're suggesting by a Constitutional confrontation. Is the euthanasia law the one the Florida Supremes struck down as unconstitutional? What we need is an expert on Florida law.
DesertFox
03-28-2005, 10:49 AM
WL, you won't get a Constitutional confrontation by keeping things within the judicial branch. It requires one of the other branches doing something that the judicial branch disagrees with. THEN you get a Constitutional confrontation.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 10:53 AM
Jeb did that when he took custody of her before. The Supremes overruled him. What I want to know is why didn't the euthanasia law save Terri 7 years ago?
that is a valid point, WL, brings up. Shouldn't someone bring that up in front of the court? why not sue them for breaking the euthanasia law?
DesertFox
03-28-2005, 10:56 AM
Why not ignore the courts the way the courts are ignoring the executive and legislative branches?
DesertFox
03-28-2005, 11:10 AM
When you do that you come across as a wild man, Curtman, and nobody can take your point seriously. Shifting focus from the original problem, you become the problem and everyone forgets the original issue until the issue of you gets handled. All you did by acting like a wild man was confuse things.
This needs to be handled by the system -- with the executive branch taking on the judicial branch.
DesertFox
03-28-2005, 11:14 AM
Why you shouting at me? I agree with you completely.
DesertFox
03-28-2005, 11:17 AM
Yeah, right.
Those weren't wild men. They were in fact very much in control of themselves and very much in agreement with each other. Very civil fellows, the Founders, who didn't come across as wild men in any way.
What you're willing to introduce is anarchy. I'm not willing to go there unless everything else fails. We haven't even tried branch-on-branch confrontation yet.
DesertFox
03-28-2005, 11:28 AM
It isn't Congress' place to fight; Congress is intentionally divided against itself.
It's the executive branch's place to handle this with a confrontation.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 11:31 AM
Jeb Bush has been overruled by both state and federal supreme courts. Remember when Al Gore had to accept the decision of the SCOTUS in Bush v Gore? What the courts are doing is wrong but if we aren't going to abide by the courts then what is going to happen to our country? I agree that judge Greer should be impeached. That is how we are supposed to handle that. My only disagreement is with blaming Jeb Bush for this. That is just plain unfair.
DesertFox
03-28-2005, 11:33 AM
I don't see anybody blaming Jeb Bush for anything.
What I'm saying is, if Jeb Bush is a man of principle, he will force a Constitutional showdown in the interests of the nation. Much more is at stake here than just Terri Schiavo. The runaway judiciary MUST be confronted at some point, and this is a better time than most to act.
But I suspect Jeb is more interested in keeping alive his presidential prospects.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 11:35 AM
I see a lot of people blaming Jeb Bush. In this forum and friends of the Schindler's. No one has helped the Schindler's more than Jeb Bush has.
DesertFox
03-28-2005, 11:35 AM
Well, I haven't blamed Jeb Bush. Yet.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 12:19 PM
Curtman he has been doing that since this case went to court. My God must we have a scapegoat?
Longhorn_Platinum
03-28-2005, 01:01 PM
I always thought that the governor being the highest in the state upholds the law.
The Governor being the highest law in the state should do something. Screw the courts and judges.
:unsmile: He doesn't seem to think that he's the highest authority in Florida. He thinks he's subordinate to Judge Greer. So do his legal advisors. We need to seriously rethink nominating this man for the White House.
Wolfcounsel
03-28-2005, 01:03 PM
"We need to seriously rethink nominating this man for the White House." --Longhorn_Platinum
I would vote for Kerry before I would vote for this coward!
Longhorn_Platinum
03-28-2005, 01:10 PM
I would vote for Kerry before I would vote for this coward!
:unsmile: I'd still vote for Bush. Either way, we're headed for Hell on a handcar. Jeb won't pump it as fast.
Wolfcounsel
03-28-2005, 01:33 PM
"Either way, we're headed for Hell on a handcar. Jeb won't pump it as fast." --Longhorn_Platinum
It's just a thought. No coward controls my future.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 02:14 PM
Wolf, he isn't a coward. Jesus.
Wolfcounsel
03-28-2005, 02:26 PM
"Wolf, he isn't a coward." --Warlady
If I were him, I would use force to get Terri out of there, and face the consequences. Screw the law!
Jeb Bush is the govenor, he can commute the death sentences of convicted criminals yet he cant commute the court-sanctioned death sentence of this Innocent woman.
Where tha hell has our priorities gone??
Jeb could act if he wanted to.
It seems people here still believe in the rule of law, yet the courts that made their judgement have all but broken the rule of law and are walking like gods over this one woman's life, for WHAT?
They have throughout this whole ordeal broken every stinking law on the florida books and we are expected to say 'the courts have ruled, there's nothing we can do' then sit back wring your hands and wash them of this travesty just as Pontius Pilate washed his hands of Jesus' unjust judgement.
Jeb could do something here, he may be going against the courts in doing so but in times such as these, when the law has been violated to such a degree an American citizen's Constitutional rights have been fully violated, when the time when the law has been completely brokenm and the courts do as they please all over the place, THIS is the time for good men to take ACTION to restore order.
If jeb doesnt do a thing about this woman, then he might as well give up being Govenor and let the black-tobed tyrants the right to rule as govenor and legislature as that is what they will be doing.
The courts have become bolder more and more, its no longer slow now or creeping its speeding up.
If this woman dies then the Judges will feel they can tell the Legislature and the Executive branches what they can and cant do in America and will force them to do as the courts please.
We as a nation will die as a Republic and the ushering of the Black-Robed tyrants will begin.
the Judges are ALREADY breaking the laws on florida's books, Florida constitutional law, as well as the US Constitutional law as well.
If THIS isnt reason enough to take action by our elected officials then ALL is LOST!!!
"Wolf, he isn't a coward." --Warlady
If I were him, I would use force to get Terri out of there, and face the consequences. Screw the law!
On the other hand, he has other obligations as well, namely his wife and three children (albeit grown). It would be poor form to violate a court order in light of his daughter's troubles. First and foremost he has to be an example to his sons and daughter.
Wolfcounsel
03-28-2005, 03:40 PM
"It would be poor form to violate a court order in light of his daughter's troubles. First and foremost he has to be an example to his sons and daughter." --nene
I see a political coward afraid of the clowns in the black robes. If that were my father, I would have deep scorn for him.
I see a political coward afraid of the clowns in the black robes. If that were my father, I would have deep scorn for him.
Your scorn is earned too easily.
Wolfcounsel
03-28-2005, 03:47 PM
"Your scorn is earned too easily." --nene
My father would not have been like this politician, no way in Hell. You are correct.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 04:05 PM
Rink, Jeb wants to. He disagrees with you that he can.
Brenda when the rule of law breaks down in cases such as this, THIS is the time for men to ACT, and not piddle around looking for laws to let them act, had our Founding fathers looked for laws to enable them to act against a Tyrannical English King George, this nation would never have come to be in the first place.
In order to restore the rule of law, Action must be taken and if that means goin against the grain of existing laws to do so then so be it, as long as the rule of law is restored.
Our Founding fathers did TONS of illegal acts, like dumping a tonload of English tea in the Boston harbor, taking up arms against the english, declaring their independence against the crown, they were LAWBREAKERS breaking English law in order to restore the rule of law that they held so dear.
THAT is thre stuff that men are made of and should be emulated.
But what I'm seeing here is nothing more than vaccilation and indecision concerning the restoration of the rule of law!
Longhorn_Platinum
03-28-2005, 04:56 PM
Rink, Jeb wants to. He disagrees with you that he can.
:unsmile: Yeah, he's just following orders.
:question: Hmmm, that sounds familiar.
UnkHiram
03-28-2005, 05:11 PM
:unsmile: Yeah, he's just following orders.
:question: Hmmm, that sounds familiar.
Maximum MOOOOOO, Jeb is obeying the law. If he intervenes by taking custody of Teri then he will be guilty of ignoring the law, one of the things that we all hated about the last President. I have seen and heard folks citing the Illian Gonzales case as a president for Jeb taking Terri into Custody. Does anyone here actually want to say that the Illian Gonzales case was handled properly? I was not a member of this board at the time but I distinctly remember conservatives all over the nation (Myself included) screaming about the way Janet Reno ran roughshod over the Law. We are a Nation of Laws, Even when they result in a Judicial Murder.
Wolfcounsel
03-28-2005, 05:15 PM
"Does anyone here actually want to say that the Illian Gonzales case was handled properly?" --UnkHiram
One draft-dodging coward forcing a little boy back to Cuba, and one political coward who does not want to break an unjust law. That's fair, eh?
"We are a Nation of Laws, Even when they result in a Judicial Murder." --UnkHiram
And I say we are a nation run by COWARDS if we allow that.
Maximum MOOOOOO, Jeb is obeying the law. If he intervenes by taking custody of Teri then he will be guilty of ignoring the law, one of the things that we all hated about the last President. I have seen and heard folks citing the Illian Gonzales case as a president for Jeb taking Terri into Custody. Does anyone here actually want to say that the Illian Gonzales case was handled properly? I was not a member of this board at the time but I distinctly remember conservatives all over the nation (Myself included) screaming about the way Janet Reno ran roughshod over the Law. We are a Nation of Laws, Even when they result in a Judicial Murder.
Scuse me unk but the judges and the courts not only have ignored the law they are VIOLATING the law on Florida books at this time.
Jeb Bush would be within his rights to Restore the rule of law by Making the courts OBEY the laws that are on the books currently in the state of Florida.
But you will not see this happen anytime soon.
I have been doing some research of late on the subject and topic of Euthanasia and Eugenics, and what I am finding is horrid, Euthanasia was NOT an original Nazi German Idea, it originated from America, from the American Euthanasia Society some twenty years before Hitler came into power, and Hitler often spoke of the American Euthanasia and Eugenics ideology in his writings.
I have found a tonload of links and articles supporting this.
This idea of starving a person deemed 'unfit' to live isnt new either, it has been done in America and Germany as well.
This time though its open for all to see and view in full technicolor, instead of being hidden under the cloak of secrecy.
This isnt new, and its been done before, patients starved to death in both America and in Germany.
Its again happening, and we are no better than the barbarians of yesterday that we sneer at.
Read this and understand:
The Origins of Euthanasia (http://forum.skadi.net/archive/topic/6352-1.html)
Enjoy the fruits of this nation's labors.
God is pushing this issue to the forefront for a reason, there's a reason for this!!
Warlady
03-28-2005, 06:56 PM
Rink, are you one of those people who believes everything they read on the internet? I sure hope not. Jeb's AG and his team of legal advisors have told him he cannot go against the Supreme Court of Florida or disobey a court order. He isn't a king. I'm not sure what you want him to do. Storm the hospice with gun blazing?
Longhorn_Platinum
03-28-2005, 07:10 PM
Maximum MOOOOOO, Jeb is obeying the law.
:unsmile: It wouldn't be so easy for you to defend him, if you were lying in a hospice bed, with your skin flaking off, your tongue cracked open & bleeding, & blood coming out of your eyes.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 07:17 PM
Moo what part of that isn't his fault don't you get? By blaming Jeb Bush we are getting off track of who IS at fault. I would love nothing more than for Jeb Bush to be able to step in and save the day. I was hoping the President would. The courts failed Terri. The law failed Terri. If our politicians overrode every court decision we would be in total chaos. If we riot everytime we disagree with a court decision we would be in a constant state of "Rodney King riot chaos". I just wished that the federal court would have followed the new law passed by Congress and signed by the President.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 07:18 PM
According to Terri's lawyers on Hannity just now they said that Gov Bush is working with DCF to see if he can save Terri. So he isn't a coward and he isn't giving up.
farmfriend
03-28-2005, 07:23 PM
All those who would have the executive branch step in need to ask themselves, how would I feel if this was Clinton, Gore or Kerry overruling a judicial ruling. Do we really want the left doing that?
Incident_command
03-28-2005, 07:26 PM
Can anyone tell me if a judge has been to see Terri over the last few months in order to help make a decision or has he just heard testimony? I ask cause I've yet to see video of it.
If not this action is even more insane.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 07:29 PM
IC I don't believe Judge Greer or Judge Whittemore have EVER visited Terri in person.
Longhorn_Platinum
03-28-2005, 07:33 PM
:unsmile: I don't think Governor Bush can be blamed, directly. I blame Michael Schiavo & George Greer. Judge Witless... oops, I mean Whittemore, also shoulders the blame. But I think there's more that Bush could have done. Everybody keeps talking about obeying the law, but the judiciary certainly didn't, & there's no reason for Terri to die because the bad guys in government bent all the rules, while the good guys were just too namby-pamby. Besides, I see little difference between the Nuremberg defenders who were just following orders, & a spineless governor who is just following the law, except that the Nazis were actively torturing, while Bush is passively standing by. I guess I can't "blame" Bush any more than anyone else who stood by doing nothing, but he has more authority to help than the rest of the do-nothings. Bush had the opportunity to show what he was made of. Now, we know.
Longhorn_Platinum
03-28-2005, 07:36 PM
According to Terri's lawyers on Hannity just now they said that Gov Bush is working with DCF to see if he can save Terri. So he isn't a coward and he isn't giving up.
:unsmile: Well, I'll keep my fingers crossed, say a prayer, & hope I'm wrong about Bush. If there's still a chance to save Terri, I'm all for it.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 07:38 PM
I think it's too late Moo. Terri no longer has any urine output.
Longhorn_Platinum
03-28-2005, 07:39 PM
All those who would have the executive branch step in need to ask themselves, how would I feel if this was Clinton, Gore or Kerry overruling a judicial ruling. Do we really want the left doing that?
:unsmile: First of all, they already have. But, I wouldn't mind, if the judges were derelict in their duties. In Elián's case, they weren't. Blow-job Billy just didn't have the patience to wait on the courts. In Terri's case, they are, & an innocent person can die at any minute, if their decision isn't overruled.
For evil to exist it must be so from the inaction of others.
in essence because of the inaction of the Legislative and executive branches the evil that is being done to terry schiavo is not only existing its killing her.
An innocent AMERICAN Citizen is being put to death in an incredibly inhumane way and its peachy keen, its the law, theres nothing they can do about it o gosh golly gee the law constrains me.
Scuse me while I BARF!
But again had our forefathers acted in this manner with vaccilation and indecision on the apparent breakdown of the rule of law by an English King we would never have become the nation we are today, as it is the nation they founded is dying, the republic will be replaced by a black-robed tyranny.
ACTION must be had if the rule of law is to be restored, as it is apparently obvious the judiciary concerning this case has absolutely NO desire to follow the law or uphold it they have in all respects and purposes violated the rule of law and MUST therefore be constrained by the legislative and executive branches, which to date is not happening.
This is not stuff i get off the TV or the net, its plain pure common sense and understanding of this nation's history
Had men lacked the fortitude to act, there would never have been an ALAMO, there would never have been the state of Texas, and for any amount there would never have been an America.
In times when the rule of law isnt being upheld, men must act, this is one such time, but will those who have the power do the right thing and ACT??
Even if its contrary to the ruling of the courts! When the courts break the law and ignore the rule of law, then action contrary to the courts rulings must be done to set the rule of law back into place and restore the Laws as they are on the books.
In Florida Active or passive euthanasia is patently ILLEGAL, on every freikin parcel of Florida's legal books.
By ruling to have this woman killed they are ACTIVELY breaking Florida state law and are in all respects Class A felons by doing so.
Longhorn_Platinum
03-28-2005, 07:59 PM
:unsmile: Okay, on the way to the store, I had these thoughts.
:unsmile: 1. Some people complain about the precedent Governor Bush would set if he sent in the state police, or the national guard, to rescue Terri. Would we want demonicrats to use something like that? Okay, since when do the demonicrats need a precedent to do their dirty work? THEY DON'T. Even if Bush "plays nice", I can assure you that when it comes their turn, the last thing on their mind will be the way good ol' Jeb would have handled things back in his day. Look at the way they filibuster judicial nominees. The Republicans never established a precedent for that.
:unsmile: 2. There has been an awful lot of hand-wringing over the precedent that Greer will be setting, if he's allowed to get away with this, but an equal amount of anxiëty over the precedent Bush would set, if he prevents Greer from getting away with this. We're damned if we do, & damned if we don't, so we might as well be damned while saving Terri.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 08:04 PM
I'm not anxious about what Jeb is or isn't doing. I'm much more anxious about what our judges are doing.
Wolfcounsel
03-28-2005, 08:22 PM
"I'm not anxious about what Jeb is or isn't doing. I'm much more anxious about what our judges are doing." --Warlady
As*holes are going to do what they are allowed to do.
Warlady
03-28-2005, 08:26 PM
Wolfie I'm just as upset as you are. Jeb is heartbroken. It is wrong to stomp on him because the courts did the wrong thing. I just don't see it the way you do. I realize that our branches of government are equal but separate. But each has to know their limits. I'm hoping that Jeb will want to get back at Judge Greer and do something about him. He's a sack of shit and needs to be impeached.
Wolfcounsel
03-28-2005, 08:34 PM
"I'm hoping that Jeb will want to get back at Judge Greer and do something about him. He's a sack of shit and needs to be impeached." --Warlady
I have something else in mind for the murderer. All legal and everything, and final.
A lot of conservatives have been frustrated with what they see as inaction from President George W. Bush and Florida Governor Jeb Bush. Many, including myself, have called upon the Bush brothers to ignore court rulings and take steps to save the life of an innocent woman being tortured to death in a Florida hospice.
First, allow me to restate my position. The court system has ignored Terri Schiavo's right to equal protection under the laws, a right protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. Given that renegade "judges" have ignored the Constitution and have attempted to replace our constitutional republic with a judicial oligarchy, the Bush brothers are under no obligation to follow these "rulings". Jeb Bush could send in the state police or George Bush could send in federal marshals to save Terri's life.
I have repeatedly called on both of the Bush brothers to act like men and take the action required to save Terri, because the judicial system has failed to protect her. Instead, the judicial system has been a co-conspirator in the torture slaying of an innocent woman.
I do not, however, hold George W. Bush or Jeb Bush in low regard for their lack of actions. I think the Bush boys have been deceived about what the limits of judicial powers are. I think the Bush boys sincerely believe that it would be "illegal" for them to use the law enforcement powers at their disposal to save Terri's life. If either believed that they could save Terri's life "legally they would do so.
But while I think the Bush boys are reluctant to break what they view as the "rule of law", that does not erase my belief that they are wrong about this. The United States of America was never intended to be a judicial oligarchy. Instead, this nation is a constitutional republic where no one, not even judges, can ignore the law and the Constitution. Eventually, there will come a point where patriotic Americans will have to stand up and say no more to an out-of-control judicial system where justice is sacrificed on the altar of procedure.
http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/images/icons/icon1.gif http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/images/icons/icon1.gif http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/images/icons/icon1.gif
Taylor
03-28-2005, 08:59 PM
I applaud Jeb Bush and his brother for doing everything possible to try to save Terri Schiavo. As you may know Gov. Bush is very familiar with the Schiavo case. Over the years, he has worked to legally save Terri. I've been reading posts here by people who claim Bush has the right to pardon Terri, send in the feds, etc. What gives him the power to do that? He can't pardon Terri because she's NOT a criminal on death row. As far as I know he can only pardon people convicted of a crime. I'm sorry, but in case you don't know, Terri is not on death row. She's not a convicted criminal. It's sad she's being murdered because she's severely and profoundly disabled. It's all about the seperation of powers. Gov. Bush refuses to break the law and you people unfairly attack him. I applaud Bush for choosing not to break the law. You should attack Judge Greer, not the Bush brothers. The courts shouldn't have the power to override the states. They have WAY TOO MUCH power in this country. Gov. Bush has his hands tied behind his back all becaiuse of some STUPID laws in Florida that forbid him to overrule the courts in cases like this. He's worked tirelessly to try to keep her alive while Greer and the courts have been trying for years to kill Terri and others like her off. What happened to states rights? I don't know the law and I don't pretend to unlike everyone else. I'm sure if Bush could step in to save Terri once again, he would have done so days ago. I'm sure George and Barbara Bush are very proud of their boys because they refuse to break the law. If Jeb Bush ever decided to run for President someday, he'll get my vote. The only way to avoid similar situations is to have a living will.
:prolife:
Wolfcounsel
03-28-2005, 09:08 PM
"If Jeb Bush ever decided to run for President someday, he'll get my vote." --Taylor
And my vote will cancel yours out.
Taylor
03-28-2005, 09:17 PM
I wish there was more the Bush brothers could do to save Terri Schiavo from being murdered and I believe they would if they could. People with Down's Syndrome are profoundly retarded. I suppose they'll be next to be murdered. I think they've done all they can do to try to help Terri short of breaking the law. I'm too young to remember the Watergate scandal but if I'm not mistaken Richard Nixon broke the law and he was forced to resign. I just hope someday a large group of people finally stand up and say enough is enough and work hard to change the law.
UnkHiram
03-28-2005, 09:17 PM
:unsmile: It wouldn't be so easy for you to defend him, if you were lying in a hospice bed, with your skin flaking off, your tongue cracked open & bleeding, & blood coming out of your eyes.
Maximum Moo
That is True, entirely inflamatory and besides the fact but true. Jeb is obeying the LAW. The Judges are flouting it not Jeb.
Wolfcounsel
03-28-2005, 09:19 PM
"Jeb is obeying the LAW. The Judges are flouting it not Jeb." --UnkHiram
Who is the ultimate authority in this country when the law is being "flouted"?
"Jeb is obeying the LAW. The Judges are flouting it not Jeb." --UnkHiram
Who is the ultimate authority in this country when the law is being "flouted"?
God
Wolfcounsel
03-28-2005, 09:25 PM
Then it is definitely not our public servants.
Golgo 13
03-29-2005, 03:52 AM
So what are you going to do if he does get the ticket? Vote third party? That isn't going to cancel any vote but your own, and we all know there's only one other side to choose from which you people are are intrinsically against.
THEBIRD
03-29-2005, 05:25 AM
I'm with Apollo.........all I can think to say is wussy
Warlady
03-29-2005, 06:17 AM
Well said Taylor and Unk. Wolf, you impeach the judges who flout the law.
Wolfcounsel
03-29-2005, 07:46 AM
"So what are you going to do if he does get the ticket? Vote third party? That isn't going to cancel any vote but your own, and we all know there's only one other side to choose from which you people are are intrinsically against." --Golgo 13
I'm not voting for a coward. If he's afraid to break an unjust ruling, he will be afraid to stick his **** out in worse situations. I don't believe he will grow a pair after Terri dies.
DesertFox
03-29-2005, 07:52 AM
I'll vote for the best guy or gal unless they're all commie pinko moh fohs, in which case I'll just stay home. Most politicians are cowards in one way or another so for my money that doesn't disqualify anybody all by itself.
Warlady
03-29-2005, 07:53 AM
Wolf if it comes down to Jeb and Hillary, I trust you will come to your senses before then. Jeb Bush has said he is not going to violate a court order. No one has worked harder or more tirelessly to save Terri than Jeb Bush but he's not going to violate the law. Even if he disagrees with it.
This sordid affair has brought out bad actors from both sides. We have people criticizing the governor of Florida. That is not bad. However, to call the governor a coward is not justified. Don’t criticize somebody for not doing what you yourself are not prepared to do. If you think that some sort of intervention needs to take place, go down to Florida and take the law into YOUR hands. There are NO parallels between the actions of the founding fathers with what many want to happen in Florida. It is easy to be righteously indignant when there is no consequence to bear.
DesertFox
03-29-2005, 08:22 AM
Um, nene, that's probably asking a bit much as it's apples and oranges. Jeb Bush can order something done without having to do it personally, and with the uproar surrounding this issue and his standing as governor, he wouldn't have to worry about going to jail. For one of us to get anything done, we'd have to personally break the law and would end up ruining our lives.
Um, nene, that's probably asking a bit much as it's apples and oranges. Jeb Bush can order something done without having to do it personally, and with the uproar surrounding this issue and his standing as governor, he wouldn't have to worry about going to jail. For one of us to get anything done, we'd have to personally break the law and would end up ruining our lives.
Yet, he is called to give such and order and he refuses. Sounds like he won't make others do, what he himself wouldn't do.
Wolfcounsel
03-29-2005, 10:49 AM
"Wolf if it comes down to Jeb and Hillary, I trust you will come to your senses before then." --Warlady
I assure you I am as sane as you or any other sane person.
Wolfcounsel
03-29-2005, 10:55 AM
"However, to call the governor a coward is not justified. Don’t criticize somebody for not doing what you yourself are not prepared to do. If you think that some sort of intervention needs to take place, go down to Florida and take the law into YOUR hands." --nene
It is my opinion that the Governor is a coward. I would also pay attention to what DesertFox said about your above.
"Sounds like he won't make others do, what he himself wouldn't do." --nene
Leaders tell other people to do what they would not hesitate to do.
It is my opinion that the Governor is a coward.
Now go tell him. Hell, tell his father that his son is a coward. Tell his mother while you're at it. The word coward is significant. It is an accusation that implies many things. It is one of the worst thing that you can call somebody.
I would also pay attention to what DesertFox said about your above.
It is the excuse we all use to justify our inactivity.
DesertFox
03-29-2005, 11:47 AM
Well, nene, not to put too fine a point on it, but what's stopping you from acting? You really gonna ruin your life for a woman you don't know and never will know? That woman's worth more than your wife and kids and all you've worked for your whole life?
Not that any of that excuses inaction, but it does go a loooooooong way that direction. They're excuses, but they're not weak excuses. In fact, they're pretty powerful ones.
Wolfie, don't worry about it. Next time I see 41 I'll tell him for you. And then I'll tell Barb. I know it's gonna ruin her whole day.
Wolfcounsel
03-29-2005, 11:53 AM
"Now go tell him. Hell, tell his father that his son is a coward. Tell his mother while you're at it. The word coward is significant. It is an accusation that implies many things." --nene
I can say I think so-and-so is a coward all I want. If I were to go tell anybody to his face that he is a coward, and that in front of someone else, that would be an insult. I am not stupid.
If I were Governor of Florida I damned sure would remove Terri from that as*hole! And face the consequences!
Well, nene, not to put too fine a point on it, but what's stopping you from acting?
Wolfie, don't worry about it. Next time I see 41 I'll tell him for you. And then I'll tell Barb.
I am in agreement with how Jeb Bush handled the situation. I won't hide behind that though. Even if I thought he was wrong, I wouldn't risk being taken away from my wife and kids by doing something about it.
RuffhouseFarm
03-29-2005, 11:55 AM
Um, nene, that's probably asking a bit much as it's apples and oranges. Jeb Bush can order something done without having to do it personally, and with the uproar surrounding this issue and his standing as governor, he wouldn't have to worry about going to jail. For one of us to get anything done, we'd have to personally break the law and would end up ruining our lives.
Of course an impeachment attempt would be mounted but would not succeed, imo. I think there are some "iffy" things he could do but won't because of future political aspirations. I don't think he's a coward in the sense of fearing Greer and the rest of the hounds.
DesertFox
03-29-2005, 12:02 PM
Agreed.
Wolfcounsel
03-29-2005, 12:06 PM
To refrain from rubbing thin skins more, I will stay away from the Terri Forum. I am not ignoring anybody's posts.
I think Jeb Bush is not to be blamed. I think the fact that people thought he could do something and it turned out he can't, is what made some people angry at him.
I must say though that I think he as a Governeur might have more influence on the whole thing than he is willing to have. Not by law, but as a person in a powerful position. He could have done more in the quiet area for Terri if he wanted, I believe. Dunno. that's just something I think, not something I could proof or even show factual reasons for. :/
To refrain from rubbing thin skins more, I will stay away from the Terri Forum. I am not ignoring anybody's posts.
My hide is thick and calloused. Didn't mean to offend, Wolfcounsel.
Taylor
03-29-2005, 03:05 PM
I wouldn't tell his mom and dad their son is a coward because that wouldn't be a very nice thing to say and it's not true. Terri would have died a year and a half ago if it hadn't been for the Florida legislator and Jeb Bush. If there was someplace I could post a message where they could read it, I would tell them I don't think their son is a coward for refusing to break the law.
Wolfcounsel
03-29-2005, 03:29 PM
"My hide is thick and calloused. Didn't mean to offend, Wolfcounsel." --nene
Me neither. Opinions are like, ..., anyway.
I'll just refrain from further posting of my opinion about the Governor. Only he knows what he is.
Warlady
03-29-2005, 03:32 PM
They know it already Taylor but I'm certain they would appreciate hearing it.
UnkHiram
03-29-2005, 06:34 PM
I think whatever is political aspirations may be in the future,, he's pretty much damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. I don't see it being a very positive future for him when Terri dies. The Bush legacy is going to be one of didn't stand up for the constitution and an innocent woman died. Some legacy.
He is of course winning the hearts of liberals so that outta count for something ay?
Magmummom, I understand the passion, I even agree with the sentiment that there should be something that someone could do to save this poor womans life. However, If Govenor Bush sent in the State Police and forced a feeding tube be reinserted (sorry for the grammer) then he would be violating the LAW. You Do not stand up for the constitution by intentionally ordering people to violate the law, even if the law is a ruling by an insane Judge. You can not have the govenor of a State establishing a precident that its ok to break the law if you disagree with it. Govenor Bush has done every LEGAL thing he can do to save Terri's life. The Judge on the other hand has consistantly ignored the law with his decissions, but since he is a JUDGE and they are the ultimate authority on legal matters in our nation his decision stands. Is it right -------- No! Is it proper ----------NO! Is it Moral ---------NO!! Is it Legal ---------Yes.
UnkHiram
03-29-2005, 07:20 PM
When something as important of a document as our constitution and those that took the oath to protect that means something to me. Screw the law when our most important document is being shred. Now if this were a case of the 2A being torn apart worse than it already has been,, do you think the law would count then?? both are rights that are in the very papers that made this nation what it is today. Those that we ELECT are leaders. As such and they promise to defend that document and then they do not, guess that document is worthless afterall. Sad day for america
Magnum, Those documents are important to me also. That is why I dont want the Govenor of any State to Shred them by ignoring his oath to OBEY THE LAW. Yes, those we elect are Supposed to be leaders and as such should set the example of obeying the law. He is defending the documents that you cite by Bowing to the LEGAL authority of the Judiciary. Is the Judiciary being abused, Yes it is. Should steps be taken to remove this Judge and any other Judge that abuses his authority, Yes they should. Should Govenor Bush ABUSE his position by ignoring the law in this case as as a result render the documents we both want protected as meaningless, NO.
Warlady
03-29-2005, 07:36 PM
Rick Santorum is on Hannity now. Congress is going to investigate Judge Whittemore. Yipppeeee.
UnkHiram
03-29-2005, 07:40 PM
Rick Santorum is on Hannity now. Congress is going to investigate Judge Whittemore. Yipppeeee.
Thank Goodness. This "Man" needs to be investigated, Impeached and then Tried for Murder.
Warlady
03-29-2005, 09:17 PM
Along with Judge Greer Unk. I miss public hangings.
UnkHiram
03-29-2005, 09:30 PM
Unk,
would you say the same if this was our guns being taken away?
Magnummom, they are already taking away our 2nd Amendment rights and I continue to argue and scream about them being a violation of the Constitution.
Let them continue disarming us because our leaders have to act according to the law? Both instances are attacks on our freedom. To what extent is the line going to be drawn?
We prevent that from happening by ensuring that we elect officials that will not enact laws that violate the Constitution. I realize that failed in this case but that does not mean that we resort to lawlessness to correct the problem.
Some day it is going to have to be either we break the law or we follow it. Following it could mean our disarment and along with that the last bit of freedom we would have left.
Any attempt to fully disarm our citizens would result in a revolution, a move that would be called for because at THAT point we would no longer be a nation of laws.
AT what point do our leaders stand up for the constitution?? Even if it means breaking the law? Never? or after it's too late?
Our leaders should stand up for the Constitution at every step, but they should do it without breaking the law. You cannot uphold the law by breaking it.
Warlady
03-29-2005, 09:39 PM
Unk you are a voice of reason in a sea of out of control hormones. I want nothing more than for the cavalry to ride in and save Terri. Unfortunately, because of the laws in Florida that just isn't going to happen unless the Florida legislature passes a new law to save her. Even the Governor has to follow the laws of his/her state. That's why Jesse Jackson is trying to get Florida legislators to change their vote. From what I understand, Florida has guardianship laws and Michael being Terri's spouse is the guardian. As bad as he sucks the judge for whatever corrupt reason decided to keep him as the guardian. The judge believed Michael's lies that Terri didn't want to live this way. Jeb Bush stepped in and asked the legislature to pass a law to save her. The Florida Supremes struck it down as unconstitutional. Terri is being killed because Judge Greer believed Michael Schiavo's testimony that Terri didn't want to live. I also believe Judge Greer agrees with the right to die crowd that she was a "prisoner of her own flesh" mentality. I pray to God he is impeached for ignoring so much testimony to the contrary. I do NOT believe that our Constitution is dead because of this one case. I don't believe that if Terri dies she will have died in vain. I believe a lot of good legislation will come from this one tragedy/travesty. We will fight back.
DesertFox
03-29-2005, 09:47 PM
Voice of reason? How ya figure? So what happens when the judges just start ruling by decree? At that point the law would be, as in this case, whatever a judge says, in defiance of Congress, legislatures, whoever. Will you then still insist that the governor obey the laws that the judges lay down? That's exactly what's happening here. A judge is breaking the law as mandated by Congress and you want the governor to obey the judge's illegal ruling.
That's upside, backwards and I don't know what, but it's NOT the voice of reason. Jeb Bush has a moral responsibility to take on this scofflaw judge. The executive branch is paid to lead, not plead helplessness.
UnkHiram
03-29-2005, 09:48 PM
Desert
At that point we use the LEGAL and CONSTITUTIONAL avenue to remove the Judges from Office. Which I hope happens in this case.
DesertFox
03-29-2005, 09:50 PM
Yeah, while somebody dies. Sorry, Unk, but that's not good enough.
Warlady
03-29-2005, 09:54 PM
Fox you're mixing the state judge with the federal judge. I don't exactly know what you're asking because you are doing that.
UnkHiram
03-29-2005, 09:55 PM
Desert
I dont like it anymore than you do but you dont uphold the law by breaking it. The Unfortnate truth is these type of things only get corrected after someone dies.
Warlady
03-29-2005, 09:55 PM
Fox you are very emotional about this case. I understand that but I am just not going to blame Jeb Bush for this. And you say you aren't but your posts speak otherwise.
DesertFox
03-29-2005, 09:56 PM
I'm asking that Jeb Bush intervene directly to save Terri Schiavo. I don't need yet another rehearsal of the whole sordid story. I don't need more excuses for Jeb Bush. I need Jeb Bush to show some balls and save a woman's life.
DesertFox
03-29-2005, 09:58 PM
You guys still don't get it, do you? This is THE crux. This is where the judicial branch is making its move, though even they may not realize it. SOMEbody has to initiate a direct Constitutional confrontation. Anything less always gets watered down by liberals to the point that it's useless.
Time to confront. NOW. Not later. Not a week from now. Not after a recall election. Not after a failed impeachment. Not after WWIII. Not after we talk it to death a 50th time. NOW.
WL, I'm very much into this case. Not "emotional." Emotional means angry or crying or something like that. I'm none of that.
Warlady
03-29-2005, 09:59 PM
How dare you insinuate that we don't know what is at stake or we don't care. To hell with it. I won't be back to this forum either. I suspect that if I weren't an Admin I would be banned from FC too.
Wolfcounsel
03-29-2005, 10:01 PM
I will not say what I think of Jeb, but I go along with DesertFox. To hell with unjust laws and blind obedience to them!:flame:
UnkHiram
03-29-2005, 10:06 PM
You guys still don't get it, do you?
Desert, actually I do get it. I even agree with you that this case is a turning point. We disagree on how to take action on it. You are MANDATING that the Govenor of a State BREAK THE LAW. I am suggesting that we use the methods set up under the constitution to fix the problem.
This is THE crux. This is where the judicial branch is making its move, though even they may not realize it. SOMEbody has to initiate a direct Constitutional confrontation.
Again, I agree. HOWEVER you cannot initiate a direct Constitutional confrontation by BREAKING THE LAW. That is how you initiate a Revolution.
Magmummom, I understand the passion, I even agree with the sentiment that there should be something that someone could do to save this poor womans life. However, If Govenor Bush sent in the State Police and forced a feeding tube be reinserted (sorry for the grammer) then he would be violating the LAW. You Do not stand up for the constitution by intentionally ordering people to violate the law, even if the law is a ruling by an insane Judge. You can not have the govenor of a State establishing a precident that its ok to break the law if you disagree with it. Govenor Bush has done every LEGAL thing he can do to save Terri's life. The Judge on the other hand has consistantly ignored the law with his decissions, but since he is a JUDGE and they are the ultimate authority on legal matters in our nation his decision stands. Is it right -------- No! Is it proper ----------NO! Is it Moral ---------NO!! Is it Legal ---------Yes.
When the LAW is completely against the United States Constitution as well as Florida state law concerning Euthanizing a human being against their will that LAW is MOOT and jeb Bush has EVERY right to act, but he's taking the cowards way out and whining "There's nothing i can do' when on the Florida state laws Euthanasia active or passively done is a FELONY and is against the LAWs on the books, the Judge's decision sis NOT established law it is a Judicial Ruling, Judges do NOT have thew right to establish LAW by judicial fiat!!!:hissyfit:
UnkHiram
03-29-2005, 10:09 PM
I will not say what I think of Jeb, but I go along with DesertFox. To hell with unjust laws and blind obedience to them!:flame:
Wolf
Who gets to decide which laws are unjust? Who get to decide which laws we get to break? My Brother would argue that the laws restricting his sales of Drugs are unjust. I believe one of the appeals he filed was based on that very argument. If you want to live in a Nation of Laws you have to make reforms within the legal system NOT by cursing it and ignoring laws that you dont like.
Magnum, Those documents are important to me also. That is why I dont want the Govenor of any State to Shred them by ignoring his oath to OBEY THE LAW. Yes, those we elect are Supposed to be leaders and as such should set the example of obeying the law. He is defending the documents that you cite by Bowing to the LEGAL authority of the Judiciary. Is the Judiciary being abused, Yes it is. Should steps be taken to remove this Judge and any other Judge that abuses his authority, Yes they should. Should Govenor Bush ABUSE his position by ignoring the law in this case as as a result render the documents we both want protected as meaningless, NO.
Hey Unk what LAW is it that Jeb Bush would supposedly 'violate' if he took action, blease by all means define and explain this to me.
Judges by the separation of powers CANNOT Make law by judicial fiat, if they could then why bother having a 'legislature then???
UnkHiram
03-29-2005, 10:12 PM
When the LAW is completely against the United States Constitution as well as Florida state law concerning Euthanizing a human being against their will that LAW is MOOT and jeb Bush has EVERY right to act, but he's taking the cowards way out and whining "There's nothing i can do' when on the Florida state laws Euthanasia active or passively done is a FELONY and is against the LAWs on the books, the Judge's decision sis NOT established law it is a Judicial Ruling, Judges do NOT have thew right to establish LAW by judicial fiat!!!:hissyfit:
Rink
The "Guardianship Law" passed by the Florida Legislature and signed by a Florida Judge allows this travesty to happen. I agree that the Judge in this case is ignoring every other law that "MIGHT" apply. The Law needs to be reformed, the Judge needs to be impeached to ensure that this type of insanity never happens again.
UnkHiram
03-29-2005, 10:14 PM
Hey Unk what LAW is it that Jeb Bush would supposedly 'violate' if he took action, blease by all means define and explain this to me.
Judges by the separation of powers CANNOT Make law by judicial fiat, if they could then why bother having a 'legislature then???
Rink
The Guardianship Law that is being insanely enforced by this Judge. He is not making LAW by Fiat, what he is doing is ignoring the laws that conflict with the one he likes.
Rink
The "Guardianship Law" passed by the Florida Legislature and signed by a Florida Judge allows this travesty to happen. I agree that the Judge in this case is ignoring every other law that "MIGHT" apply. The Law needs to be reformed, the Judge needs to be impeached to ensure that this type of insanity never happens again.
Excuse me but even the Guardianship laws have either been ignored in this case or violated OPENLY, take a look Michael schiavo according to the guardianship laws on the state books MUST file a report, he did not and have not he hasn't filed anything since being appointed legal guardian, in VIOLATION of the guardianship laws.
They are violating Terry schiavo's Constitutional rights, Judge greer has all but made a court order to actively euthanize Terry schiavo AGAINST STATE laws against Euthanasia, I read the damned laws Unk its a friggin Class A Felony to Actively participate in the euthanizing of a human being, its a Class B felony to be a passive participant in the euthanizing of a human being, they vilated the Guardianship laws, they violated a Congressional supoena, they violated the law to whatever they damn well see fit!!
And all these violations of the laws I guess is ok since the Judge ruled "ITS THE LAW!" and nobody but GOD can go against a Judge's divine ruling.
Rink
The Guardianship Law that is being insanely enforced by this Judge. He is not making LAW by Fiat, what he is doing is ignoring the laws that conflict with the one he likes.
Hate to tell ya Unk but judge greer has allowed Open violations of the guardianship laws for Michael schiavo.
Wolfcounsel
03-29-2005, 10:22 PM
"Who gets to decide which laws are unjust? Who get to decide which laws we get to break? My Brother would argue that the laws restricting his sales of Drugs are unjust." --UnkHiram
Is this a trick question? What part of sales of drugs, and starving and dehydrating an innocent woman go hand in hand with equal jeopardy?
DesertFox
03-29-2005, 10:24 PM
you cannot initiate a direct Constitutional confrontation by BREAKING THE LAW. That is how you initiate a Revolution.
Unk, that won't wash. You'll have to (and can't) explain why Andrew Jackson did just that in the 1820's, directly confronting a judge, and no revolution ensued. You'll have to (and can't) explain why George Wallace did just that in the 1960's, directly confronting a judge, and no revolution ensued.
You'll also have to explain (and can't) why the judges have been getting away with breaking the law all these years, ever since Roe v. Wade, and no revolution has ensued.
Take it from one who has studied it: Revolution occurs only when the general run of popular opinion favors it.
UnkHiram
03-29-2005, 10:26 PM
Rink
In spite of your condescending tone, I agree with you that the Judge has not enforced the law correctly. I have also stated repeatly that the Judge was wrong and there should be appropriate steps taken to correct this problem. I have even suggested some of the steps that should be taken, I dont remember ever suggesting that only GOD could over rule a Judge. Just for the Record, I have also read the laws involved with this case.
UnkHiram
03-29-2005, 10:32 PM
Unk, that won't wash. You'll have to (and can't) explain why Andrew Jackson did just that in the 1820's, directly confronting a judge, and no revolution ensued.
Desert I unfamiliar with this specific case so I am unable to comment on it.
You'll have to (and can't) explain why George Wallace did just that in the 1960's, directly confronting a judge, and no revolution ensued.
The National Guard was federalized and sent in to ensure that George Wallace was forced to compy with the law that allowed blacks to attend the University of Alabama.
You'll also have to explain (and can't) why the judges have been getting away with breaking the law all these years, ever since Roe v. Wade, and no revolution has ensued.
They have been getting away with legislating from the bench (a very different thing) because no actions were taken to the Judges that did it. Much like the Police cannot arrest some one before they commit a crime no action can be taken against a Judge till he actually "Legislates from the Bench". However I do agree that it has been the lack of Spine on the part of The Legislative branch and Executive branch that have allowed these Judges to get away with it for the last 40 years.
Take it from one who has studied it: Revolution occurs only when the general run of popular opinion favors it.
I hate to disagree, but Revolutions only SUCCEED when the General run of Popular opionon favors it.
DesertFox
03-29-2005, 10:35 PM
You haven't explained why Wallace's (and Jackson's before him) direct confrontation didn't set off revolution, Unk. You said it would. It didn't.
"No actions were taken to the judges that did it." I don't know what you mean there, but if you mean nothing was done to the judges, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Nothing was done, so they kept right on legislating from the bench illegally. And no revolution has ensued.
And it isn't "revolution" if it doesn't succeed.
I keep wondering why Judge greer is ruling to have this woman dead so badly??
I have a hunch Judge Greer is hiding something and the only way to KEEP it hid is to kill this woman.
I have a hunch Judge greer is being blackmailed into doing it.
and the corruption.... I wonder if that has anything to do with his position in this...