Michael Schiavo Wants To Prove Extent of Terri's Brain Damage With Autopsy

[Warlady]

This is the most absurd statement he's made to date. He could prove the extent of her brain damage with an MRI and PET scan while SHE'S ALIVE!! He wants to kill her first then he could care less. He can't be touched after she's dead. All he can say is "oops". Also, his lawyer is making it sound like Michael is ordering this autopsy. It's Florida law that the coroner must perform an autopsy to determine cause of death on anyone who is to be cremated. Nice try Felos. Most Americans won't know it's Florida law.

[Warlady]

Another point I would like to make is how cruel can he be to be talking about an autopsy before she has even passed away? I remember when my little daughter died of leukemia she had just died and the doctors wanted to know if I would allow an autopsy for the sole purpose of research. I was devastated and to even have to make that decision..... Michael you suck. I pray God gets vengeance on your pathetic life.

[Teenager]

Yuck!

I compare Michael Schiavo to Scott Peterson. They BOTH want(ed) thier wife dead, so they go marry some sexy lady and have kids with her. It's nasty.


~Teen-Ager

~~"For to me, to live is Christ, to die is gain." -Phil. 1:21~~

http://www.bittybitznpieces.com/FathersLoveLetter~.htm

[Warlady]

I agree Teenager. Although I haven't seen Michael Schiavo's live-in so I can't speak to whether or not she's sexy. I thought Laci was sexy. Love isn't about looks. Looks fade with age. It's about honoring your wedding vows. Michael hasn't. Welcome to FC. I hope you make us your home and I look forward to reading your posts.

Also, I just learned today that in Florida if there is a conflict of interest with the guardian of someone like Terri the courts are supposed to appoint another guardian. Living with another woman and having children seems to me to be a conflict of interest. There are tons of witnesses who have testified to other counts of conflict. Either the judge has grossly misjudged this case or Terri's parent's lawyers have been negligent. I am tending to believe it's the judge or maybe both. Michael clearly had the better, more expensive legal team.

[BEST45CAL]

Let them do their autopsy.

This is a good thing, even though the local media pukes are reporting this as if Michael is the one who is ordering it.

The autopsy should reveal any prior physical abuse that Terri may have suffered, such as any broken bones that have healed, etc.

I expect the Schindlers to initiate a lawsuit against Michael as soon as Terri is with God.

Then Terri may not be cremated (for some time, at least) because her body may be used as evidence against Michael. (That's my guess and hope, anyway. I'm not a lawyer.)

The plot thickens...

[RuffhouseFarm]

I agree Teenager. Although I haven't seen Michael Schiavo's live-in so I can't speak to whether or not she's sexy. I thought Laci was sexy. Love isn't about looks. Looks fade with age. It's about honoring your wedding vows. Michael hasn't. Welcome to FC. I hope you make us your home and I look forward to reading your posts.

Also, I just learned today that in Florida if there is a conflict of interest with the guardian of someone like Terri the courts are supposed to appoint another guardian. Living with another woman and having children seems to me to be a conflict of interest. There are tons of witnesses who have testified to other counts of conflict. Either the judge has grossly misjudged this case or Terri's parent's lawyers have been negligent. I am tending to believe it's the judge or maybe both. Michael clearly had the better, more expensive legal team.

The judge grossly misjudged the case, probably because he, too, has a conflict of interest, although he refused to recuse himself from the case.

Michael did and does have the better legal team. Besides Felos and the Duty-to-Die movement behind him, Michael's got the ACLU and basically Greer himself on his legal team. Michael's always held all the aces, right from the beginning.

[DesertFox]

Michael's got ... basically Greer himself on his legal team

It's a big advantage in court to have the judge on your side.

[Kathy29]

That Michael Schiavo wants an autopsy is pure, unadulterated, puke, mixed with a little dog poo, if the dog has tapeworms.

Schiavo didn't want an autopsy until the state upset his cremation plans with the law that says that in every case of cremation, there must be an autopsy. Now, suddenly, he wants an autopsy.

[RuffhouseFarm]

Maybe yes, maybe no. Do you not think that Felos, an activist lawyer in the Duty/Right-to-die movement and board president for the hospice, didn't already know that cremation calls for an investigation? Do you think that maybe he WANTS people to focus on the results of the investigation? Doesn't it occur to you that this law is NOT a revelation to a lawyer and a judge sitting on the board of the hospice? If this smells a little bit, ask yourself why Felos would want to draw attention to the death investigation.

[MichaelS]

It's Florida law that the coroner must perform an autopsy to determine cause of death on anyone who is to be cremated. Nice try Felos. Most Americans won't know it's Florida law.

Actually, based on Florida law (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=CH0406/Sec11.HTM), an autopsy is only required for a cremation when the autopsy is sought by either the medical examiner of the district in which the person dies or by the state attorney's office.

To my knowledge, neither the medical examiner nor the state attorney has required one for Terri Schiavo.

And it has been reported (http://tampatrib.com/MGB0EZINV6E.html) that the autopsy is being sought to address allegations of abuse or involvement in the circumstances that resulted in Terri's condition.

[Warlady]

Ruff, do you think they've bought the coroner off too?

MichaelS you might want to reread that statute. I believe you have misread it.

[BEST45CAL]

Have the stem cell research supporters said anything in support of keeping Terri alive?

Maybe they have.

I don't know for sure.

Does anyone know?

[MichaelS]

Ruff, do you think they've bought the coroner off too?

MichaelS you might want to reread that statute. I believe you have misread it.
I did not misread it. My family has had several deceased relatives cremated in Florida, none of which were subjected to an autopsy.

[RuffhouseFarm]

Ruff, do you think they've bought the coroner off too?

MichaelS you might want to reread that statute. I believe you have misread it.

I have no idea. I hope the state requests an autopsy. The law requires a "Death investigation" in the case of a pending cremation. That's not the the same thing as an autopsy.

Organ donations are done within 12-24 hours of death, except liver and kidney which are done right away.

I expect Felos to try to pass off a death certification and organ harvest as an autopsy. There are people dumb enough to believe it. I hope that the state medical examiner is on the up and up.

[Warlady]

Me too Ruff. Which official from the state would request an autopsy? Can the governor or AG?

[Sierra]

I think the presence of brain damage or lack of it, is beside the point; to me this has never been about Terri's ability to recover. Neither Ronald Reagan nor Christopher Reeves were able to feed themselves prior to their deaths yet no one spoke of starving them to death. It is the act of killing her long before she would have naturally expired that should rightly be the issue not her condition. The Death Culture and their media allies have been allowed to misidentify this case as being akin to removing a dying patient from life support. There is far more at stake here than just Terri Shiavo if the Death Culture gets to define dying as being simply unable to care for one’s self unaided there are millions of potential victims out there. We have all gotten to know this poor woman and her long suffering family but we are entering an area where her fate is not all that’s at stake here; it is one of the reasons the Death Culture is fighting so hard for this one. This one case and what follows immediately after may be far more important than Dred Scott v. Sandford or Plessy v. Ferguson; those cases defined the issue of whether one man may be the master of another. However we are now moving into an area where we may ultimately define who are the ultimate masters of not just or bodies but our very right to exist.

[Kathy29]

Actually, based on Florida law (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=CH0406/Sec11.HTM), an autopsy is only required for a cremation when the autopsy is sought by either the medical examiner of the district in which the person dies or by the state attorney's office.

To my knowledge, neither the medical examiner nor the state attorney has required one for Terri Schiavo.

And it has been reported (http://tampatrib.com/MGB0EZINV6E.html) that the autopsy is being sought to address allegations of abuse or involvement in the circumstances that resulted in Terri's condition.

Re read the statute especially section c.

When there is to be a cremation or burial at sea.

[Warlady]

Well said Sierra. Very well said. They have got to rewrite laws to protect our handicapped citizens. And they need to protect them from evil guardians.

[RuffhouseFarm]

Me too Ruff. Which official from the state would request an autopsy? Can the governor or AG?

I think a variety of state agencies can request it. I heard last night this one will be done by the county coroner, so that doesn't excite me too much.

[S-T]

http://www.lifenews.com/bio849.html

[adstrinity]

Excerpt from The Empire Journal:

http://www.theempirejournal.com/329...ca l_exami.htm (http://www.theempirejournal.com/329051_independent_medical_exami.htm)

"According to information obtained by The Empire Journal from medical professionals. It has been found that extreme dehydration causes substantial shrinkage of brain tissue which threatens to skew the medical examiner findings at any autopsy of Terri Schiavo.
According to several medical experts consulted by the newspaper, while such brain shrinkage is a well-known fact in medicine, there have been few studies. However, it has been publicly admitted in the medical community about this degree of dehydration as a means to determine how much this will affect the medical examiner’s findings.

It is likely that Felos and Michael Schiavo have been informed of this and hope the dehydration will help them lend even more disinformation toward their cause that Terri has ‘severe cortical atrophy’. Medical professionals have told the newspaper that the incomparable degree of extreme dehydration, as marginally put forth in studies about the much less severe dehydration that occurs in emesis (vomiting) and similar crises about dehydration precluding acute brain atrophy, will mistakenly lend to this false conclusion.

These medical professionals have stressed the urgency to the Schindler family that a third independent party must be present at the autopsy rather than just a medical examiner secured by Felos/Schiavo, and that the marked unnatural dehydration needs to be considered in the post mortem analysis of cortical shrinkage.

Other medical professionals stress that the brain is a very delicate, mysterious and highly misunderstood organ and that an autopsy which focuses on the brain could be very misleading.

In studies of hydrocephalus patients, there is evidence that brain size is not related to intelligence. In the prestigious magazine, Science, in December, 1980, and more recently in a PBS documentary, the work of Dr. John Lorber of Sheffield University, England, is detailed along with other physicians who have used brain scan technology to study hydrocephalus patients.

Hydrocephalus is commonly called water on the brain. The disease occurs when the fluid filled spaces in the middle of the brain expand due to increased pressure, pressing the brain against the skil. Of the more than 600 individuals examined by Dr. Lorber, about one in 10 had more than 90% of the skull volume filled with fluid, and of these more than half of these have IQs over 100.

One young man examined by Dr. Lorber, who was then a student at Sheffield University, had a measured IQ of 126, a first class honors degree in mathematics and virtually no brain. This student’s brain cortex is a layer about 1/25th of an inch (1mm) thick, lining his skull. His brain weight is estimated to be about 2/10 of one pound (about 0.090 kg). That is only about 7% of normal brain weight. This student is one of many normal persons with almost no brain.

There have been many other reported cases where normal functioning people have been found to have virtually no brain matter."

[Warlady]

No wonder Michael ordered an autopsy especially including her brain.

[Melz]

He wanted to seem like a good guy by ordering the autopsy and proving his innocence eh? Well first off, he already screwed up any views of a "nice guy" when he refused to treat his wife years ago, then when he shacked up with a mistress, and now as he is trying to off his wife. So his little effort of ordering the autopsy couldn't make up for all that anyway. And the fact that starving and dehydrating her would hinder the potential for any info coming out of the autopsy..well whaddya know. Once again, his motives are self serving.

Who the hell can support this man's efforts? I guess those who think on the other side of this can have all the opinions they want about whether Terri should be killed, but to support Michael Schiavo while all this is going on???

Sorry, I just cannot see where he warrents anything but damnation to hell at this point.

[Warlady]

Same here Melz. My husband feels the same way. He believes that since Michael moved on he should have lost his guardianship rights. Why on Earth he didn't is beyond me. I cannot imagine any judge in this country who would overlook how bad he has treated Terri since he got the money. Stopping her rehab should have been a huge red flag. I'm beginning to believe this hospice should be shut down. I hope Jeb looks into that. No family member should have control over common sense medical care. I remember when I had to rush to Louisiana because my Mother had been put on a respirator. I had power of attorney over her. I took it with me when I went to the hospital. The doctor and I talked about her options. I told him that she told me she didn't want to be hooked up to a respirator a few years before. He said that to take her off the respirator now would be cruel. I said okay. And then I went into her room and pointed to the vent and asked Mom if she wanted it. She nodded "yes". I told her "That's important Mom". So she was left on it for then. They inserted her feeding tube because she couldn't swallow food or water because it went into her lungs. She loved life and never wanted to live that way before but because that's all she had she chose to live that way for another 5 years. She was happy. Granted she was able to get off of the ventilator after only a few days but she was on the feeding tube for years after. There are many mentally challenged citizens who require feeding tubes and to kill them off is just plain wrong.

[UnkHiram]

Actually, based on Florida law (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=CH0406/Sec11.HTM), an autopsy is only required for a cremation when the autopsy is sought by either the medical examiner of the district in which the person dies or by the state attorney's office.

To my knowledge, neither the medical examiner nor the state attorney has required one for Terri Schiavo.

And it has been reported (http://tampatrib.com/MGB0EZINV6E.html) that the autopsy is being sought to address allegations of abuse or involvement in the circumstances that resulted in Terri's condition.

from what I understand it is a requirement in the County that Terri is being murdered in.

[Melz]

WL, I am completely and honestly sympathetic that you have had to go thru what you have with your mom in such a similar situation. I believe that gives you more insight as to how Terri may feel at this stage in her life and how her wishes may even have changed from the alleged wishes that her nonhusband has announce to promote her death. You truly have been thru a lot and I admire your continued fight for the life of Terri and the future lives of anyone who may be fighting this same battle, you are a true missionary dear :)

[Warlady]

Thanks Melz. Nothing angers me more than for someone to accuse me of not empathizing with Terri and her family. I have lived through a similar situation. Not what Michael has put them through of course. I don't know anyone who has had to live through that kind of injustice and cruelty. I truly pray that Michael Schaivo will go straight to hell. I don't care who knows my feelings either.

[Rink]

from what I understand it is a requirement in the County that Terri is being murdered in.

Thing of it is Unk, they may do the autopsy and the bone scans and brain scans et al, but the release of the info solely rests upon the 'next of kin' which of course is Michael schiavo and I bet good money he'll either get it skewed in his favor, or make it disappear, or not ever release it at all.

Michael schiavo speaks for terry
Michael schiavo tells everyone terry wants to die
Michael schiavo fights to kill terry
Michael schiavo has control on the autopsy
Michael schiavo gets to choose cremation or burial
Michael schiavo gets control as to where terry gets buried at.

CAN we say Control freak??

This nut wants UBER control over this one human being's life, to him she's just a means to an end, and I bet ya he has a tonload in life insurance on terry he'll be collecting when she dies.

He not her parents gets to say on everything on terry schiavo, he owns this woman lock, stock and barrel, he has the marriage document proving his ownership of this woman terry schiavo.

The Marriage contract here has been used as an ownership document over another human being who for the record cannot speak for herself because she has been prevented from any rehab at all by her 'loving husband'

The courts have all but damned the law and shredded the constitution here over this.

Blood be on their hands!! :flame:
I most certainly hope the reprecussions of this shakes the very foundations of the judiciary out of power onvce and for all.

They've earned it eternally.

[UnkHiram]

Rink

I do agree that the sort of control that Michael is exercising here has done more damage to Terri and her ch ances of recovery than anything else. On the other hand if the Autopsy finds something questionable then That information will be turned over to the District Attorney whether Michael likes it or not.

[Rink]

I do not have anymore faith in the judiciary or the authorities in Floirda, I fear it will be shoved under the rug and kept hidden just to let Michael schiavo off the hook.

He's been left off the hook onthe guardianship laws, he's been left off the hook on the laws concerning euthanasia and more.

Whats one more miscarriage of justice?

who will notice or take it up? since the courts have all but decreed this woman's death and has all but crapped on the schindler family.

There will be no justice, there will be no truth with any 'autopsy' Michael schiavo will not be punished in this country.

I have no faith anymore in the judiciary or any florida authorities anylonger.

Justice is dead in America.

[RuffhouseFarm]

The thing about the autopsy is this: Felos and Schiavo can publicly say whatever they like about "ordering" an autopsy. The medical examiner decides if one is to be done. He probably notified Felos that an autopsy had been directed by the state ME or even the gov or even of his own volition. So they get out in front of it by claiming they ordered it.

[RuffhouseFarm]

from what I understand it is a requirement in the County that Terri is being murdered in.

A death investigation is required by state law in a cremation. That investigation may include an autopsy, but it doesn't have to. It's up to the ME.

Nobody should get their hopes up about this autopsy, if a full one one even takes place. Felos and Schiavo can grandstand all they like about claiming to have "ordered an autopsy". It's not up to them. It's up to the District ME or the state attorney. It may end up just being a death certification. In other words, if a full autopsy takes place, it won't be because Schiavo ordered it. He probably was notified one would take place and is trying to spin it as though he has nothing to hide by claiming that he ordered it.

[DeclinetoState]

May Felos and Michael Shiavo join Johnnie Cochran (and not Nicole Simpson and Terri Schiavo) soon. :(

[RuffhouseFarm]

Title XXIXPUBLIC HEALTH
Chapter 406MEDICAL EXAMINERS; DISPOSITION OF DEAD BODIES



406.11">406.11 Examinations, investigations, and autopsies.--

(1) In any of the following circumstances involving the death of a human being, the medical examiner of the district in which the death occurred or the body was found shall determine the cause of death and shall, for that purpose, make or have performed such examinations, investigations, and autopsies as he or she shall deem necessary or as shall be requested by the state attorney:
(a) When any person dies in the state:
1. Of criminal violence.
2. By accident.
3. By suicide.
4. Suddenly, when in apparent good health.
5. Unattended by a practicing physician or other recognized practitioner.
6. In any prison or penal institution.
7. In police custody.
8. In any suspicious or unusual circumstance.
9. By criminal abortion.
10. By poison.
11. By disease constituting a threat to public health.
12. By disease, injury, or toxic agent resulting from employment.

(b) When a dead body is brought into the state without proper medical certification.

(c) When a body is to be cremated, dissected, or buried at sea.

(2)(a) The district medical examiner shall have the authority in any case coming under subsection (1) to perform, or have performed, whatever autopsies or laboratory examinations he or she deems necessary and in the public interest to determine the identification of or cause or manner of death of the deceased or to obtain evidence necessary for forensic examination.

(b) The Medical Examiners Commission shall adopt rules, pursuant to chapter 120, providing for the notification of the next of kin that an investigation by the medical examiner's office is being conducted. A medical examiner may not retain or furnish any body part of the deceased for research or any other purpose which is not in conjunction with a determination of the identification of or cause or manner of death of the deceased or the presence of disease or which is not otherwise authorized by this chapter, part X of chapter 732, or chapter 873, without notification of and approval by the next of kin.

(3) The Medical Examiners Commission may adopt rules incorporating by reference parameters or guidelines of practice or standards of conduct relating to examinations, investigations, or autopsies performed by medical examiners. History.--s. 6, ch. 70-232; s. 26, ch. 73-334; s. 1, ch. 77-174; s. 1, ch. 87-166; s. 29, ch. 97-103; s. 3, ch. 98-253

[adstrinity]

May I ask all Christians in this thread that they pray that Michael repents and that God looks with mercy & forgiveness on him. Jesus never taught pray and hope that a sinner goes to hell. Pray that he repents in this life and finds God's mercy instead of God's justice in the next.

[RuffhouseFarm]

Same here Melz. My husband feels the same way. He believes that since Michael moved on he should have lost his guardianship rights. Why on Earth he didn't is beyond me. I cannot imagine any judge in this country who would overlook how bad he has treated Terri since he got the money. Stopping her rehab should have been a huge red flag. I'm beginning to believe this hospice should be shut down. I hope Jeb looks into that. No family member should have control over common sense medical care. I remember when I had to rush to Louisiana because my Mother had been put on a respirator. I had power of attorney over her. I took it with me when I went to the hospital. The doctor and I talked about her options. I told him that she told me she didn't want to be hooked up to a respirator a few years before. He said that to take her off the respirator now would be cruel. I said okay. And then I went into her room and pointed to the vent and asked Mom if she wanted it. She nodded "yes". I told her "That's important Mom". So she was left on it for then. They inserted her feeding tube because she couldn't swallow food or water because it went into her lungs. She loved life and never wanted to live that way before but because that's all she had she chose to live that way for another 5 years. She was happy. Granted she was able to get off of the ventilator after only a few days but she was on the feeding tube for years after. There are many mentally challenged citizens who require feeding tubes and to kill them off is just plain wrong.

There's no explanation for it until you understand where these people are really coming from. Clearwater is the international headquarters for the Church of Scientology. They have a great deal of power there. They own all kinds of commercial property, work as doctors, lawyers, serve on all kinds of boards and commissions, and many attend regular mainstream churches. They have a lot of goals, and Duty-to-die is one of them. They believe that the mentally disabled are supposed to be dead but their spirit is trapped in the body. Moving the spirit on to the next life is highly desirable and lingering in a useless, unproductive body that is expensive to keep is not. This belief would also explain why Greer early on let Michael off the hook for the medical expenses and put Terri on Medicaid and never made Michael file the proper annual guardianship record and reports. It also explains why there was never any doctor's orders directing Terri be moved from the nursing home to the hospice. The hospice, which both Greer and Felos were on the board, hasn't charged Michael for Terri's care in the five years that she's been there. She's basically been a prisoner there with no medical care except the feeding tube. If you read the thread I opened about parallels you'll understand it. There's a belief system behind the whole thing and its carried out through the power of the Scientologists which have a really big footprint in that area.

[terri]

May I ask all Christians in this thread that they pray that Michael repents and that God looks with mercy & forgiveness on him. Jesus never taught pray and hope that a sinner goes to hell. Pray that he repents in this life and finds God's mercy instead of God's justice in the next.

As for me, I'll have to pray to be given the URGE to so much as offer an inkling of sympathy for this murderer, Michael Schaivo. He would not even allow the brother and sister to be in the room as Terri expired. Sorry, guess I'm a lousy Christian. :smirky:

[RuffhouseFarm]

The Scientologists have a spiritual ritual of sorts they use when a person "passes". They won't let people of faith see it. This explains why Felos and Schiavo kicked the Schindlers out of Terri's room about 20 minutes before Terri died. They left instructions to be summoned from another room when she got close to death. This would also explain the reluctance to let Terri have communion or last rites or a Catholic burial. They only knuckled under to some minimal ministerial attentions because of publicity over that topic. It looked too cruel and suspicious.

[Warlady]

There's no explanation for it until you understand where these people are really coming from. Clearwater is the international headquarters for the Church of Scientology. They have a great deal of power there. They own all kinds of commercial property, work as doctors, lawyers, serve on all kinds of boards and commissions, and many attend regular mainstream churches. They have a lot of goals, and Duty-to-die is one of them. They believe that the mentally disabled are supposed to be dead but their spirit is trapped in the body. Moving the spirit on to the next life is highly desirable and lingering in a useless, unproductive body that is expensive to keep is not. This belief would also explain why Greer early on let Michael off the hook for the medical expenses and put Terri on Medicaid and never made Michael file the proper annual guardianship record and reports. It also explains why there was never any doctor's orders directing Terri be moved from the nursing home to the hospice. The hospice, which both Greer and Felos were on the board, hasn't charged Michael for Terri's care in the five years that she's been there. She's basically been a prisoner there with no medical care except the feeding tube. If you read the thread I opened about parallels you'll understand it. There's a belief system behind the whole thing and its carried out through the power of the Scientologists which have a really big footprint in that area.

This explains alot. So if Greer is a Scientologist then he was practicing judicial activism and should be impeached.

[RuffhouseFarm]

Impeached, then HIS feeding (tube) pulled.

Seriously, from what I've been reading, they're real insidious and have taken a lot of control there from the mainstream public - almost like the Mormons in Utah, only a smaller scale. Mormons are a legitimate religion, but these people are the face of evil and a cult. People are held captive sometimes, all kinds of things are done to their enemies. They're like a mixture of mafia and cult.