Incest: Exactly How wrong is it?

[PrezLeefun]

I know this is a wierd question. But the question came up over lunch with friends. What if two people are second cousins? Still wrong? Ok? That is not addressed in Leviticus 18. So how do you feel about it?

[PrezLeefun]

ok people i see you logged on... please respond, anybody!!!!

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

I know this is a wierd question. But the question came up over lunch with friends. What if two people are second cousins? Still wrong? Ok? That is not addressed in Leviticus 18. So how do you feel about it?

The thought of marrying and having relations with one of my second cousins makes me sick to my stomach, but as such a relationship is of the sixth degree of consanguinity, there is nothing wrong with it from a legal, biblical, or genetic perspective.

[DoctorDoom]

It's more a medical and legal thing than a biblical one.

IAC, with "gay" marriage now in vogue, I envision brothers marrying, or sisters, or fathers and sons, or mothers and daughters. There is of course no chance of Deliverance-type offspring, so how can they be denied?

[CzechPrince]

I think the law is 3rd cousins can marry, I am guessing that is far enough down the blood line where if kids were to be produced, there would not be major medical consequenses. Is this right, is there anyone here who has a medical background?

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

I think the law is 3rd cousins can marry,

No, second cousins can marry. (I implied that when I said that were was nothing wrong with it from a legal perspective.) In many states in the US, first cousins cannot marry.

[PrezLeefun]

What??? There's a state where 1st cousins can marry? ewww.

[PrezLeefun]

But i think you kinda missed my point...How do you feel about it?

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

But i think you kinda missed my point...How do you feel about it?

I believe I answered that in my first response to this thread: "The thought of marrying and having relations with one of my second cousins makes me sick to my stomach."

[DoctorDoom]

<center><img src="http://www.cousincouples.com/info/usamap2.gif" border="1" /></center>

States that allow cousin marriages (http://www.cousincouples.com/info/states.shtml)

[PrezLeefun]

I know you did Thomas :). But what if you didn't know them growing up and met them later on. Do you think that would make it different?

[PrezLeefun]

ummmm thank you Doc do the colors mean something?

[DoctorDoom]

The colors are listed below the map.

[PrezLeefun]

i dont see them. they are not on the site either.

[Wolfcounsel]

Green means cousins can marry. Red means they can marry, with exceptions. No color means they cannot marry. I do not wish relatives to marry each other. They screw up the family tree.

[PrezLeefun]

"If your family tree does not fork, you might be a redneck."- Jeff Foxworthy

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

One added note: That map refers to first cousins.

[PrezLeefun]

Yikes!

[DesertFox]

If you don't know that somebody's your kin, you won't feel the normal nonsexual feelings about or toward that person. As I think Doc noted, this is a biological issue more than anything else; but as TIU said, even the thought of sex with one's sibling or parent or kid is

YUCKO

[DoctorDoom]

"If you go to family reunions looking for a mate, you might be a redneck."
-- Jeff Foxworthy

<hr>
i dont see them. they are not on the site either.This is the color code, located at the bottom of the graphic.

[Sir Knight]

In many states in the US, first cousins cannot marry. What about first cousins once removed?

[Sir Knight]

I think the law is 3rd cousins can marry, I am guessing that is far enough down the blood line where if kids were to be produced, there would not be major medical consequenses. A 3rd cousin and a first cousin twice removed are about equally down the blood line from each other.

[PrezLeefun]

whoa...dude what exactly is removed???

[Peachdiane]

It means take 'em out like garbage. Just kidding! Actually this may help :)



<DT>Removed <DD>When the word "removed" is used to describe a relationship, it indicates that the two people are from different generations. You and your first cousins are in the same generation (two generations younger than your grandparents), so the word "removed" is not used to describe your relationship.


The words "once removed" mean that there is a difference of one generation. For example, your mother's first cousin is your first cousin, once removed. This is because your mother's first cousin is one generation younger than your grandparents and you are two generations younger than your grandparents. This one-generation difference equals "once removed."

Twice removed means that there is a two-generation difference. You are two generations younger than a first cousin of your grandmother, so you and your grandmother's first cousin are first cousins, twice removed.

</DD>

Page with explanation (http://www.genealogy.com/16_cousn.html)

[PrezLeefun]

Well peach thats what i would call a second cousin.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Not a question I would ever have asked, but nonetheless a very interesting one, and actually I have asked myself the very same on occasion but for a different reason.


I have known all my life that I was adopted. I was raised as an only child, but later found that I have biological 1/2 siblings. These siblings did NOT live all that very far from me. I have sometimes wondered, what would have happened way back (before Bubba), if I had met my 1/2 brother and been interested in him and he in I?

Adoption brings this kind of thing very close to the surface when children are separated and sent away, or even stay close (in proximity, location) to their biological relatives. As an adoptee, at least way back when I was growing up, we weren't/aren't(?) privy to biological information. In fact, it was through a petition (one of several I had attempted), that an error was made, and I was sent my ENTIRE adoption file (allowing me to locate my birth mother, and subsequently my birth-siblings -- haven't found my bio dad yet).

Anyway, I have always wondered about those that "don't know" and have no way of knowing who they are related to biologically. It also brings up another thought ... I have a son and a nephew, my Sister-in-law was once married to a man with two daughters (at the time of marriage they became cousins and step-sisters...in that order). My SIL & BIL are now divorced. If either my son or my nephew (or both) became interested in his girls, would that be considered incest even though they were never biologically related, only through marriage for a short period of time?

Very complicated issue, more far reaching that people consider.

[Lazarus]

I know this is a wierd question. But the question came up over lunch with friends. What if two people are second cousins? Still wrong? Ok? That is not addressed in Leviticus 18. So how do you feel about it?How we feel about it is meaningless - Unless you are trying to set doctrinal standards above and beyond what God has already ruled on... I dont recommend that practice...

If the issue isnt objected to by God then we have no right to apply our own personal prejudices - certainly not on society... If you have a personal prejudice then that is between you and God...

Unless there is a civil law against it in your locale, there is no spiritual condemnation of it as far as I can find...

[Sir Knight]

Well peach thats what i would call a second cousin.That is the common mistake that most people make. I though so too until I started doing some research into this topic when making my family tree and trying to explain to our six year old daughter the relationship between her and my father's nephew's grandchildren who are roughly the same age as her. :question:

Sometimes, especially when working on your family history, it's handy to know how to describe your family relationships more exactly. The definitions below should help you out.

Cousin (a.k.a "first cousin")

Your first cousins are the people in your family who have two of the same grandparents as you. In other words, they are the children of your aunts and uncles.

Second Cousin

Your second cousins are the people in your family who have the same great-grandparents as you., but not the same grandparents.

Third, Fourth, and Fifth Cousins

Your third cousins have the same great-great-grandparents, fourth cousins have the same great-great-great-grandparents, and so on.

Removed

When the word "removed" is used to describe a relationship, it indicates that the two people are from different generations. You and your first cousins are in the same generation (two generations younger than your grandparents), so the word "removed" is not used to describe your relationship.

The words "once removed" mean that there is a difference of one generation. For example, your mother's first cousin is your first cousin, once removed. This is because your mother's first cousin is one generation younger than your grandparents and you are two generations younger than your grandparents. This one-generation difference equals "once removed."

Twice removed means that there is a two-generation difference. You are two generations younger than a first cousin of your grandmother, so you and your grandmother's first cousin are first cousins, twice removed.

Relationship Charts Simplify Everything

Now that you have an idea of what these different words mean, take a look at the chart below. It's called a relationship chart, and it can help you figure out how different people in your family are related. It's much simpler than it looks, just follow the instructions.

Instructions for Using a Relationship Chart Pick two people in your family and figure out which ancestor they have in common. For example, if you chose yourself and a cousin, you would have a grandparent in common.


Look at the top row of the chart and find the first person's relationship to the common ancestor.


Look at the far left column of the chart and find the second person's relationship to the common ancestor.


Determine where the row and column containing those two relationships meet.

<table border=1 cellpadding=3 cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#999999"><tr align=CENTER><td width="83"><b>Common<br>Ancestor</b></td><td width="89"><b>Child</b></td><td width="105"><b>Grandchild</b></td><td width="106"><b>G-grandchild</b></td><td width="109"><b>G-g-grandchild</b></td></tr><tr align=CENTER><td width="83"><b>Child</b></td><td width="89">Sister or Brother</td><td width="105">Nephew or Niece</td><td width="106">Grand-nephew or niece</td><td width="109">G-grand-nephew or niece</td></tr><tr align=CENTER><td width="83"><b>Grandchild</b></td><td width="89">Nephew or Niece</td><td width="105">First cousin</td><td width="106">First cousin, once removed</td><td width="109">First cousin, twice removed</td></tr><tr align=CENTER><td width="83"><b>G-grandchild</b></td><td width="89">Grand-nephew or niece</td><td width="105">First cousin, once removed</td><td width="106">Second cousin</td><td width="109">Second cousin, once removed</td></tr><tr align=CENTER><td width="83"><b>G-g-grandchild</b></td><td width="89">G-grand-nephew or niece</td><td width="105">First cousin, twice removed</td><td width="106">Second cousin, once removed</td><td width="109">Third cousin</td></tr></table>

[Lazarus]

That's interesting Sir Knight... By your definition my cousin's children would be my first cousins once removed, correct?

Still not sure how that now translates into scriptural prohibitions - What we are calling first cousins may not indeed be what Moses (or God) defines as first cousins... Its a question of Isogogics - Might be worth some further research...

[Sir Knight]

That's interesting Sir Knight... By your definition my cousin's children would be my first cousins once removed, correct? Yep.

What we are calling first cousins may not indeed be what Moses (or God) defines as first cousins... This is true. What I've defined above is the common old British definition of family relationships. How it relates to biblical definitions, I haven't a clue.

Its a question of Isogogics - Might be worth some further research ...Yeah, as I said, I got into this when drawing up our family tree and trying to explain to my daughter who was related to who and how.

[Lazarus]

Thanks for the explanations, buddy... I learned something today...:thumb:

[PrezLeefun]

i am still confused...oy vey.

[True American]

Bizzare topic.
Gee, I dunno... I've had 1st cousins that I had a crush on when I was a child. My cousin 1st Debbie was about the cutest thing on earth. Her sister Jan was really cute too. I never really gave much more thought to it than they were cute, but I guess this is the foundation for many to actually do something about that thought. I would assume it's quite typical. Which is to say, this kind of thing probably happens more than we think it does.

I would suggest that it doesn't really matter until cousins in any format mate. Then I believe the blood line could most likely cause some serious problems for the infant. I don't suggest that cousins, 1st, 2nd or otherwise should mate.

As for my personal thoughts on the matter... I believe it's probably best not to mess around with cousins. However, I can see why it's likely to happen.

[PrezLeefun]

TA thanx for the honesty. I have been in the same boat with second cousins before. It is at the very least an interesting topic.