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HomeschoolrsRUs
06-13-2005, 01:14 PM
The Honeymooners
By James Bowman (editor@spectator.org)
Published 6/13/2005 12:02:42 AM

As we look back at him, Jackie Gleason's Ralph Kramden in "The Honeymooners" looks more and more like a tragic figure. At least he was like King Lear or Othello or Oedipus in not knowing something about himself that the audience did know. In his case, what he didn't know was that his self-presentation was transparent to them, and that everyone could see through his bluster to the weak, vain, greedy, petty self that he thought to keep hidden. But where the essential information withheld from the tragic heroes would lead to their irretrievable ruin, Jackie's Ralph was like the Warner Brothers' immortal Wile E. Coyote: blown up, shot or dismembered on every encounter with his nemesis, usually by a combination of bad luck and his own foolishness, he would be back next week for more. Like the coyote too, the other thing that he didn't know and that the audience did is that he could never win the contest of wits in which he was engaged.

What the roadrunner was to the coyote, of course, his wife Alice (Audrey Meadows) was to Ralph. It was vital to the whole set-up that he should believe himself to be the king in his own tenement castle, according to the patriarchal assumptions which could in the 1950s still be taken for granted, while even the dimmest of the TV audience could see that it was really Alice who ruled the roost. But perhaps the greater genius of the original conception lay in the character of Ed Norton (Art Carney), the goofball sewer-worker and friend to whom Ralph always felt effortlessly superior but who was in reality another road runner, always one step ahead of him. Ralph was the original lovable loser, and the more lovable for believing himself to be a success, or pretending to believe it.

All this overlong preamble to a discussion of John Schultz's movie version of The Honeymooners is necessary, I think, because we have to understand the immense cultural significance of the archetype that Schultz and company are taking on. From Fred Flintstone to Homer Simpson, the popular culture's images of the great American patriarch have owed an enormous, an irreplaceable debt to Gleason's Ralph Kramden. It is also important to understand this because -- although there is one postmodern joke when the movie's Ralph (Cedric the Entertainer) mentions "the Lodge" and Alice (Gabrielle Union) replies "The Lodge? What are you, Fred Flintstone?" -- there is little evidence that Schultz's movie does. Putting Cedric into the Jackie Gleason part looks like not a bad idea on the face of it, and Mike Epps as Norton is also promising. But neither of them proves to be quite up to the semi-mythic roles they have taken on.


The rest of this movie review found here: The American Spectator (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8292)

DesertFox
06-14-2005, 06:52 PM
Ralph Kramden can't be black. Ralph was a white stereotype of the Forties and Fifties. You could laugh at stereotypes in those days, especially since Ralph embodied male stereotypes of all races. But you can't laugh at a black man today for stereotyped behavior. PC will crucify you if you do. Blacks in one way or another can only be shown in redeeming roles.

Jackie Gleason's Kramden was a blowhard shaking his fist at the white whale, thinking himself Ahab. We all know Ralph Kramdens, and at one time or another most of us have been Ralph Kramden. A black man in the West today can't publicly be a Kramden. He must be a hero in some sense.

This movie may be good on its own merits -- I don't know -- but no way can it be the Honeymooners in blackface. Thus has politics yet again ruined art. This movie is socialist realism in modern terms.

Bluemoon_Rising
06-14-2005, 10:50 PM
"The Honeymooners" is one of those rare and truly great TV classics wherein the essence of the enduring humor is not so much in the gags or the dialogue as much as it's in the characterizations and the interactions between the players. All of the truly great shows are great because of the personalities that the players bring to the set. It's not the punch lines that make "All in the Family, the original "Dick Van Dyke Show," the original "Bob Newhart Show," "The Mary Tyler Moore Show, "The Andy Griffith Show" or "Seinfeld," for example, remarkable, but the characters. Fox has got it right. The great shows capture that which is as old as time and true about all of us -- the stereotype -- and recasts it in fresh and unforgettable personifications . . . and does so without apology.

I've seen the movie; it stinks, and it's not "The Honeymooners" at all. In fact, it could have been given any title, the characters given any names. The makers of the film just don't have the talent, the honesty or the guts it would take to portray a black Ralph Kramden and make it stick.

Besides, the only black actor who could pull it off with a gutsy script is Martin Lawrence in a body suite. He wasn’t cast for the part.

Beyond Gleeson, the best actor for the role is white and dead: John Candy.

RayChuang
06-15-2005, 05:59 AM
It should be noted that The Honeymooners also became the inspiration for one of the truly great animated TV series of all time: The Flintstones.

I have the first two seasons of The Flintstones on DVD and believe me, much of the storylines in the these two seasons were strongly inspired by The Honeymooners.

FreeAmerican
06-15-2005, 10:40 PM
Beyond Gleeson, the best actor for the role is white and dead: John Candy.
Why not Tom Goodman?

HomeschoolrsRUs
06-15-2005, 10:42 PM
Why not Tom Goodman?

You mean, JOHN Goodman?

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:UwbL_MCy_XEJ:www.celebritydetective.c om/jgoodman6.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.celebritydetective.com/jgoodman6.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.celebritydetective.com/cmntyprofile-johngoodman.html&h=474&w=349&sz=25&tbnid=UwbL_MCy_XEJ:&tbnh=126&tbnw=92&hl=en&start=2&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJohn%2BGoodman%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie %3DUTF-8)

FreeAmerican
06-16-2005, 07:51 PM
Oops, yeah, I knew that didn't sound right.

UnkHiram
06-16-2005, 08:02 PM
I have not seen the movie, yet. Probably gonna wait for it to come out on DVD. If I was gonna recast the Honeymooners I think I would have picked Jim Belushi for the Gleason role. Candy was too "Nice" for the Gleason role. If they were gonna go with an Black version I would probably have picked Cedric the Entertainer, he is down right funny.

PrezLeefun
06-16-2005, 08:03 PM
lol

Bluemoon_Rising
06-17-2005, 06:36 AM
Why not Tom Goodman?

Yep, John Goodman could do it too.