Organic Gardening

[Keb]

It's hard! This is the first year I've ever tried it. I put in a cinderblock garden with a pre-mixed soil mixture and my husband planted his garden in the ground. Mine was doing okay in the beginning but now it seems to have attracted these tiny light gray flies that are eating some of the vegetable leaves.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

[Large_Al]

Keb what are you planting?? I lived in Woodenville for about 3.5 years. Back then I think it's claim was more Horses than People. Now I hear its home of Microsoft? What part of Washington do you live? Rainforests or Desert?

are you a Keb Mo Fan??

[Large_Al]

Organic Gardening (http://www.organicgardening.com/)

Bugs Bugs Everywhere (http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/organic_gardening/72784)

[Keb]

Keb what are you planting?? I lived in Woodenville for about 3.5 years. Back then I think it's claim was more Horses than People. Now I hear its home of Microsoft? What part of Washington do you live? Rainforests or Desert?

are you a Keb Mo Fan??I have peas, beans, carrots, bell peppers, beets, cukes, tomatoes, rosemary, basil, and Italian parsley. I tested the soil today. Really low on acid. My hubby bought me some sulfur so I hope that helps. What's frustrating is I'm using a locally authored book to go by and the soil mixture wasn't cheap. Okay, it didn't cost a fortune but when you add that, the cinder blocks, weed cloth, stakes.......and then look at my hubbys beautiful lush green ground garden, yes, it's frustrating. Anyway........

We live in WA state and Colorado. We're here in CO right now. Our home is on Whidbey Island which would be the "Rainforest" side but the north part of the island is in a rain shadow so we get a break.

Funny you should mention Keb Mo. My friend's nickname is Mo for Maureen. My name is a nickname too. She used to have a quote about Keb Mo in her signature and we used to laugh about it...........okay, you had to be there.:biggrin:

[Keb]

Organic Gardening (http://www.organicgardening.com/)

Bugs Bugs Everywhere (http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/organic_gardening/72784)Thanks, Al! I'll get to reading.

[The_Sonarman]

My family has been doing "organic" gardening / farming for decades, and we never did quite equal what can be done with the proper use of packaged fertilizer (Miracle Gro, etc.). That's just the way it is.

[sunsettommy]

I have peas, beans, carrots, bell peppers, beets, cukes, tomatoes, rosemary, basil, and Italian parsley. I tested the soil today. Really low on acid. My hubby bought me some sulfur so I hope that helps. What's frustrating is I'm using a locally authored book to go by and the soil mixture wasn't cheap. Okay, it didn't cost a fortune but when you add that, the cinder blocks, weed cloth, stakes.......and then look at my hubbys beautiful lush green ground garden, yes, it's frustrating. Anyway........

We live in WA state and Colorado. We're here in CO right now. Our home is on Whidbey Island which would be the "Rainforest" side but the north part of the island is in a rain shadow so we get a break.

Funny you should mention Keb Mo. My friend's nickname is Mo for Maureen. My name is a nickname too. She used to have a quote about Keb Mo in her signature and we used to laugh about it...........okay, you had to be there.:biggrin:

That explains the Sulphur shortage.

Organic gardening takes a little time to work since the mix you made is new and needs to be "transformed" into the existing soil to do its wonders.

The frustrations I think stems from the fact that you are following advice from a man who developed his idea over a few years in his garden.This is a common error since what took him time (years) for his methods to work can not work immediately in your garden in ONE year.I have seen this many times.

If you think his method has merit in your garden,just be patient and it will get better as the ideas takes off.

I have done a few years of ORGANIC Gardening and I love it! No smelly chemicals to deal with,No fighting with the bugs and NO carcinogens to worry about.

I have had permanent beds that are 4' wide and around 25' long.I never walk in it and also plant in a group similar to seeding grass.Bush beans are FANTASTIC when you spread out the been seeds like you would with grass seed.They shade the ground and hold each other up.You can at the time of planting add a few sturdy small branches for them to "pile" themselves on.

I use NON Treated pine boards as the walls of the bed,raising them by about 3"-4".They last a few years and NO chemical poison to worry about.Linseed oil is still a carcinogen,so for get it.Not worth the work and expence anyway.The clean boards do just fine for years.

It does not hurt to use a tiny bit of Inorganic fertilizers for the plants that need a lot of elements.The Nitrogen from either Organic or Inorganic fertilizers is the same anyway.So are all the OTHER elements that plants take up through a soil solution.

The point of Organic gardening is to build up the soil and avoid smelly chemicals.

[Keb]

I really appreciate all the advice and help. My pitiful little cinder block garden is still sputtering for the time being. Trying to get more acid into the soil. In the meantime, my hubby's is thriving. Oh joy.:sourgrape Okay, I really am happy that we'll having something out of the garden to eat.:grin:


The frustrations I think stems from the fact that you are following advice from a man who developed his idea over a few years in his garden.This is a common error since what took him time (years) for his methods to work can not work immediately in your garden in ONE year.I have seen this many times.

I have heard this sentiment over and over. I might be sunk for this year but I'm not ready to throw the towel in on organic gardening for the future. I plan on building up a good compost and hopefully, nursing the soil back to health for better luck next year.

Thanks again!

[Etaoin]

My family has been doing "organic" gardening / farming for decades, and we never did quite equal what can be done with the proper use of packaged fertilizer (Miracle Gro, etc.). That's just the way it is.

Sonar, that is weird. My wife used Miracle Gro on all her flowers. She used Miracle Gro plus insecticides plus fungicides, but after her demise, I couldn't keep up with everything she did + my household chores, so I decided to keep her 47 Rose plants and let the rest go. These plants were in 5 separate beds. When I started the care of them, there was not a worm to be found in any of the beds, so I started burying any and all of my organic waste in the beds. By the end of the first year, There were some worms in each bed and my son said that the roses looked better than hers had ever looked as she was continually spraying for something. As an organic gardener since 1962, I bury all of any organic material and my garden (one 60'X 30') and the other (30'X 15') have been converted from hard pan clay in which a carrot seedling couldn't penetrate to now it is rich black dirt 18" to 24" deep and they are loaded with earthworms who aereate and fertilize the garden. Admittedly, it takes time, but most of the fertilizers create an environment unfriendly to earthworms.

[sunsettommy]

Sonar, that is weird. My wife used Miracle Gro on all her flowers. She used Miracle Gro plus insecticides plus fungicides, but after her demise, I couldn't keep up with everything she did + my household chores, so I decided to keep her 47 Rose plants and let the rest go. These plants were in 5 separate beds. When I started the care of them, there was not a worm to be found in any of the beds, so I started burying any and all of my organic waste in the beds. By the end of the first year, There were some worms in each bed and my son said that the roses looked better than hers had ever looked as she was continually spraying for something. As an organic gardener since 1962, I bury all of any organic material and my garden (one 60'X 30') and the other (30'X 15') have been converted from hard pan clay in which a carrot seedling couldn't penetrate to now it is rich black dirt 18" to 24" deep and they are loaded with earthworms who aereate and fertilize the garden. Admittedly, it takes time, but most of the fertilizers create an environment unfriendly to earthworms.

Sonarman,

can you tell us what is the type of soils in your area.It can make a difference in determining why Organic method was not so effective.

It is also important what organic materials you are using.If you were using manures.You could be bringing in some heavy metals or excessive salts that reduces element intake.Thus creating a shortage of something in the soil.

It is very unusual in my opinion for Organic methods in BACKYARD gardens to be less effective than straight inorganic gardening method.

Having soils with good to high levels of Organic Matter levels in it makes the elements more available and retains them too.Resisting leaching,thereby boosting the whole concept of Organic gardening in the first place.

[The_Sonarman]

Oh.... don't get me wrong. We were quite successfull with organic gardening. The only issue was..... we didn't get the monster tomatoes that the locals did, pumping the plants with the "tomato super food" artificial fertilizers. We got plenty of 'maters, beans (multiple varieties), carrots, etc., etc., etc..... but we didn't get the picture perfect "front cover of the gardening magazine" tomatoes.

As to our soil, it was heavy black clay to start. We ameliorated this clay with tons of sand, until it was a nice black loam. Plenty of humus. We'd dump several hundred bags of leaves per year into the mulch pile. Earthworm Central, those mulch piles.

[sunsettommy]

Oh.... don't get me wrong. We were quite successfull with organic gardening. The only issue was..... we didn't get the monster tomatoes that the locals did, pumping the plants with the "tomato super food" artificial fertilizers. We got plenty of 'maters, beans (multiple varieties), carrots, etc., etc., etc..... but we didn't get the picture perfect "front cover of the gardening magazine" tomatoes.

As to our soil, it was heavy black clay to start. We ameliorated this clay with tons of sand, until it was a nice black loam. Plenty of humus. We'd dump several hundred bags of leaves per year into the mulch pile. Earthworm Central, those mulch piles.

Have you considered the difference in the VARIETIES?

[The_Sonarman]

Have you considered the difference in the VARIETIES?
Hmmmmm. Could be worth investigating. We never did serious in-depth studies on which are the prolific producers.

There are the special large sized hybrids..... maybe the course of action would be to concentrate on the really large and prolific output varieties, rather than the fertilizers used.

[sunsettommy]

We got plenty of 'maters, beans (multiple varieties), carrots, etc., etc., etc..... but we didn't get the picture perfect "front cover of the gardening magazine" tomatoes.

The_Sonarman,

Now that I read this above again.I had missed what your complaint was about.

Those picture perfect tomatoes shown was probably among the only ones that way when they made a photo of it.Just consider that the magazine wants to look good by showing excellent looking produce on the cover.They do this all the time.

It is possible they looked all around the town for the "perfect" tomato to make the photo.

In my experience you can greatly increase the odds of beautifull tomatoes by lightly shading the surface of the ground around the tomatoes with a mulch.I always used grass clippings and they were easy to apply and be a matte cover on the soil.Keep it covered all season untill the weather is distinctly cooler.Then stop applying it.Alphalfa,compost are good too.

It helps to just use the COMPOST only rather than a fertilizer.Incorporate the compost at planting time.I suggest a 50% compost and 50% soil to be mixed together.Applying fertilizer can actually reduce the yield and quality.Tomatoes does NOT need much elements in quanity,just good even moisture and soil health to thrive in.Nitrogen application will likely delay fruit production in favor of leafy growth.Why bother with fertilizing the tomatoes at all? The Compost mix is often it all needs.

I suggest that you plant your tomato plants in either the TRENCH method or just plain deep to the growing tip method.Either way you pluck all the leaves one by one untill just the growing tip and its several leaves that is a part of that tip is left.Then bury the ENTIRE tomato plant right up to the growing tip.

The idea is to promote the root system by stimulating all those fine whitish hairs to be roots right along with the existing root ball the plant already has.That is why you must not grab the plant by its stem.You want all those hairs be undamaged.

Doing this more than triple the root mass of the Tomatoes.Thereby increasing disease resistance and better quality and yields of the fruit.Blossom end rot no longer a problem with the increased root growth and shaded soils with that layer of mulch.

I had just 4 plants last year and yet had to give away bags of Tomatoes.They were so good in taste that people wanted more from me!

Well it could be just those pretty pictures caused you envy and wondered why you could not reach that quality.Well now you might have it with my suggestions.It does not take special varieties to do it.Just very happy plants you have can do it just as well.

I love GARDEN CHEERIES.The larger and meatier cherries I think whollop the sweet 100's in taste and quality.They handle the weather extremes better too.

EARLY GIRL is great too.

I hope this helps.

[sunsettommy]

Hmmmmm. Could be worth investigating. We never did serious in-depth studies on which are the prolific producers.

There are the special large sized hybrids..... maybe the course of action would be to concentrate on the really large and prolific output varieties, rather than the fertilizers used.

It is possible that your fertilizing them reduced the yield and or quality.

Why not just forget about fertilizing them altogether and just give the planting hole a large pile of Compost or bagged manure instead? That is all I do.

I have not fertilized them for many years and no problem with yield or quality.I now grow only 3-4 plants total and still have a deluge anyway.

[The_Sonarman]

I shall certainly give it a try this year. Perhaps I overdid it with the artificial fertilizer last year. Will try the other way this year.

I'm already planning for getting the baby plants out for an early start. Got the Burpee email today about large 'mater varieties.

I wouldn't really care what the 'maters look like, except when I give the excess ones away. It's a bit embarrassing that mine don't always look like the store bought pretty 'maters.

I have a bit of difficulty this year with the garden. My last year's garden has been covered over by concrete. I'm going to prep another area for this year's crop.