Lawsuit Vs. File-Swapping Service Is OKd...Any KAZAA Users Out There?

[Seeker of Truth]

Source (http://www.headliner.nl/headliner.php?c=us&id=120326&abbr=ap)


Lawsuit Vs. File-Swapping Service Is OKd


By Associated Press

January 12, 2003, 11:26 PM EST


LOS ANGELES -- A federal judge has given record companies and movie studios the go-ahead to sue the parent company of Kazaa, a popular online file-swapping service.

U.S. District Judge Stephen V. Wilson refused to dismiss a copyright infringement lawsuit against Sharman Networks Ltd., which had argued that it could not be sued in the United States because it is based in Australia and incorporated in the South Pacific nation of Vanuatu.

In a 46-page ruling issued Friday, the judge said Sharman is subject to U.S. copyright laws because it has substantial business dealings in California and its actions are alleged to contribute to commercial piracy within the United States.

Kelly Larabee, a Sharman spokeswoman, said that while the company was "disappointed" with the ruling on the case, "we fully expect to prevail on the merits."

Larabee said Sharman would be filing a counterclaim that will "set forth the full story for the first time."

The Sharman case is one of the largest in the recent online copyright wars testing the international reach of U.S. courts. The plaintiffs maintain that Kazaa provides free access to copyrighted music and films to about 21 million U.S. users.

[Wyatt_Junker]

Unless KAZAA can get this thing in the 9th Circuit, it'll take a long healthy Nap-ster too.

But remember, even Napster got slammed by the ultra-liberal 9th(if you can believe it).

Anyone who has to flee to Vanautu has something to hide I would imagine. Otherwise, why not open shop above table? Reminds one of the Fall, Vanautu/fig leaves.

[Seeker of Truth]

If by chance they get lucky and shut down KAZAA a hundred more will take it's place..These sites are like terrorist cells..You can take out 1 or 2 but there's a thousand more to take it's place..You think Kazaa, Morpheus, WinMX, BearShare and others are the only BIG players in town?

Think again.

There are literally hundreds of these music piracy sites out there..Some are so far underground not even the RIAA can detect them.

While the RIAA is busy going after Kazaa there's a whole underground network mobilizing to take it's place.

The RIAA is so far behind the technology that their only weapon is the courts, and even the courts cant fight this world-wide GIANT.

Like i've said in a previous post the internet is total anarchy..Sites like this one (Free Consevatives) are on the surface to give the internet a good name but below the surface lies the true nature of the internet.

WAREZ hacker sites are only a small part of the total underground secrecy package. This goes beyond DOD, NSA , and even the CIA.

The RIAA is out-gunned on this and they know it. The RIAA will spend billions just on court & lawyer fees and Kazaa is laughing all the way to the motherboard about it.

The RIAA is an old institution who's time has passed. It's not just the piracy sites that are giving the RIAA fits. The mp3 player market is killing them too.

I have a Sony mp3 CD WALMAN D-CJO1 that makes it easy for me to play my mp3's on any stereo through the AUX port in the back of the stereo. A $9.00 Y cable from Radio Shack makes it all possible.

Sony is just one of many who are cashing in on music piracy. Try stopping a global company like Sony from making a buck. Companies like Sony are funnelling millions into the research & development of Peer to Peer clients.

The RIAA is not only in a war with music piracy sites like Kazaa but they're fighting MULTI-BILLION dollar corporations like Sony also. Who do you think is paying for Kazaa's legal bills?

Ahhhh the light just went on.

[Rink]

Dont forget Apple has a LOTTA toys that can literally download whole Operating systems and place em on handheld systems. (iMacs)

PC's isnt the ONLY one into copying, seems Apple/Mac's have gone further, its just that they are not as Flexible as PC's are in the hardware/software dept.

[DoctorDoom]

Personally, I want nothing to do with such "services", inasmuch as they are fountainheads of viruses. Don't forget that even though one is using the "service", the actual connection is a peer-to-peer network. The uploads and downloads are between personal computers, and the type that uses the "services" is generally not the type that knows about computer security.

"Aha," the proponents will say, "there is no way to infect an MP3 or video file, so the warning is meaningless." Aside from the fact that there is no absolute assurance of that, there's a little-known "feature" of Windows about which 99.99% of users have no clue.

Windows Explorer > View > Folder Options > View > Hide file extensions for known file types

By default on Windows boxes, this option is checkmarked. When viewing files with this box checked, a file called, e.g., FILENAME.EXE with be displayed as FILENAME. It makes it less confusing for newbies and appliance users, BUT...

Not long ago there was a virus called "ILOVEYOU". It was spread via an email attachment that displayed as "LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT". Now EVERYBODY knows you can't infect a text file, right? Text files aren't executable. So, how the hell did it contain a virus?

A: the full file name was "LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs". Windows suppressed the .vbs (Visual Basic Script) because it's a "known file type". A .vbs file IS executable.

With that in mind, someone spends a couple of hours downloading MP3s via KaZaa, and they all show up as MP3 files. But, hidden in the group is a SONGNAME.MP3.EXE or MUSIC.MP3.VBS file or one of several other executable file types, and the second file extension is invisible. So, double-click it and, unless the machine has an up-to-date AV app running (improbable on a kiddie machine), it's infected. It might even play the MP3, cuz the nasty code is tacked on to an otherwise valid file.

Even worse is that KaZaa is a prolific source of actual EXE files of the joke type, such as Santa Elf Bowling. How tough it is to slip in a virus?

Lest anyone think viruses aren't a major problem, DDoS (Distributed Denial of Service) attacks against major websites are carried out by "zombie" computers infected with remote-admin trojans such as SubSeven or BackOrifice, the infections having been caused by careless computing, such as using KaZaa indiscriminately. And, a good deal of Internet congestion is caused by worm-infected boxes doing constant mass-emailing of a virus to everyone in the email address book.

I have no love either for RIAA or for music pirates. My gripe is with clueless people who open their machines to attack and infection, and the subsequent grief caused by their compromised boxes.

[Seeker of Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I want nothing to do with such "services", inasmuch as they are fountainheads of viruses.

[/ QUOTE ]


Doc i have used WinMX for 2 years now. I've downloaded well over $5,000.00 worth of music and nearly $10,000.00 worth of software, and not once have i encountered a virus. I use Ontracks SystemSuite 4.0 to scan for viruses and NADDA-ZIPPO..No virus to be found. The WinMX & Kazaa Peer to Peer clients are pretty solid. I hate Bearshare and any Morpheus related p2p client because they're full of spyware but i have AdAware to fix that problem.

As the technology becomes more advanced p2p clients such as WinMX & Kazaa will filter out any viruses. WinMX gets alot of feedback from it's users and they take alot of these concerns into consideration, thats why they're constantly working to improve their software.

One thing to consider here. The Napster and WinMX generation clients are for the most part HACKERS, INC. and they know a thing or two about viruses. The last thing that WinMX wants is for some virus floating around so they take every precaution to eliminate such things.

Let the RIAA try to infiltrate the p2p client world with a virus and it'll be detected in a hurry. Don't mess with these boys because they know what they're doing.

Hell you have 12 year olds out there who can run circles around the RIAA when it comes to source code and virus detection..To these kids it's PLAYSTATION 3, 4, 5 and beyond and they don't want any virus ****ing up their state of the art 2 or 3 thousand dollar computers.

[DoctorDoom]

You've obviously lucked out. My son's WinMe box required a format & reload to get rid of a virus brought in via KaZaa. Fortunately, I had the equipment to back up his data files - he had over 4 gigs of MP3s and MPGs - but I'm 100% certain that the virus came from some clueless asshole's PC via KaZaa.

When sucking files off of an anonymous PC, one takes the chance of importing some really nasty shit.

[ QUOTE ]
One thing to consider here. The Napster and WinMX generation clients are for the most part HACKERS, INC. and they know a thing or two about viruses.

[/ QUOTE ]
REAL hackers would be offended at the equation. And IAC, you're talking about a minority, probably a small minority. I submit to you that the large majority of people who DL pirated music, video and software haven't any idea of computer security. If they did, they wouldn't be using software that opens up one's hard drive to the Internet.

The prevalence of viruses is ample evidence that there are a huge number of people out there using computers whose VCRs still flash 12:00 because they have no idea how to stop it. Point & click mouse potatos running their WalMart package puters are the bane of computing.

Lastly, the previous post was for the benefit of those readers who are not famliar with the issues raised, rather than for people who who can see DLL and VxD and IDE and AGP without question marks swirling around their heads.

[DoctorDoom]

BTW, I consider "services" such as KaZaa and WinMX and the rest to be aiding and abetting the crime of theft. The RIAA doesn't own me, but when "services" that enable the wholesale theft of products are busted, they don't have a f*king leg to stand on in court. They're no better than fences dealing in stolen property, and they should be treated no differently.

And, it says a lot about the state of morality and righteousness in this country when theft is defended and celebrated.

[Rink]

Um dont use Kazaa regular, go for Kazaa lite, the regular kazaa has spyware in it.

I heard bout that from my hacker friends, so be aware ok?

I use WinMX v3.31

[Wyatt_Junker]

Senator Berman(D), is ramping up congressional support for worlwide/global authority to invade hard drives on p2p sites for tracking individuals. NTM, a newer and broader authority to dummy-up downloads with decoys. And if the latest international hurdles are spanned, in China especially, you can kiss your p2p pie in the sky goodbye.

I don't buy the whole 12 year old savant theory. There ain't no children of the computerized corn coming to haunt and hack their way through society's legitimate bedrock. The Dungeons and Dragons crowd isn't as sophisticated as money talking. Its purely a game of stubborness. So what if a nerd finds a way to block the RIAA's latest block attempts! You hire nerds on retainer and they eff the effer. He effs back. You eff back. Its a chronic effing volley. However, the RIAA and Hollywood, Microsoft and Nintendo wins cause they've got MONEY!!!

And that crack about Sony. I dunno. Sony owns nearly a third of the musical intellectual property out there. Why would they try to subvert themselves?

And Doom's right. What're all the dorks high-fivin' each other fer? Celebrating what? Stealing?

Its like the bad smell at a WTO protest rally. A bunch of unbathed puppets rioting in glee at their car turning seminars. Seeker, you sound kinda liberal on this one. Just don't start using cheap cliches, that's when it starts getting painful to tuned ears. "Down wit tha man!" as they hurl brick into storefront window and steal a case of suppositories from a drug store. Only diff? You're doing it online, as you yourself said: "I already stole $5,000.00 of MP3's and $10,000 of software" Careful, Microsoft'll pop ya real good. I think last I heard it was $150 K per offense. Ouch.

[Seeker of Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
I use WinMX v3.31


[/ QUOTE ]

So do I Rink..IMO WinMX is the best p2p client there is..Kazaa is for kids.

You can do so much more with WinMX.

Anyone who's not using WinMX can go here to download. WinMX (http://www.winmx.com)

[Rink]

OMG Wyatt!! You just crack me up!!!

[Seeker of Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
The Dungeons and Dragons crowd isn't as sophisticated as money talking. Its purely a game of stubborness

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon133.gif

Oh yeah..A guy or kid as you say by the name of Sean Fanning really ****ed RIAA's day up now didn't he?

Go ahead and talk..Just because you cant develop a program to make the internet a much more enjoyable place to surf doesn't mean you have to slander all the young brilliant minds out there that can.

A couple of Stanford drop-outs debunk your Dungeons & Dragons theory all the hell when they developed a search engine for the internet..Now they're worth millions..The internet search engine i'm referring to: Yahoo.

So it's all about games heh?

Yeah right.

It's about knowledge and power and with that comes big money.

[2nd_Amendment]

Most of those DLing music aren't opening their HD's to the net. They DL the music and software to a dedicated HD, not only out of concern for potential virii but also simply as a space consideration. HD's are dirt cheap now, just like RAM, and it's just too easy to protect oneself and keep the primary HD unloaded. Also, in seven years of the operation of this ISP nobody has encountered a virus attached in the method you describe, Doom. I'm sure it happens, but it is a vanishingly small rarity.

Face it, the music industry is creating its' own demise. If the music being produced was worth listening to and the pricing was reasonable there would be little need for these services. But instead they continue to produce garbage appealing to the lowest common denominator, with perhaps one good piece on any given release, and count on mom and dad to pay the price to keep the spawn quiet. They're five years behind the curve of realizing pops doesn't give a shit anymore because for just a little bit of "music" he can buy his pixel pixie a comp and shut them up for years.

[Seeker of Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
Face it, the music industry is creating its' own demise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah they are.

The RIAA knew about this technology well before Sean Fanning of Napster came along.

People were swapping music on the internet all over Europe and the United States back in the mid 80's.

The file format at the time was Mpeg. Still used today but primarily for video purposes, the format was compressed into what is now more commonly referred to today as mp3.

The technology is getting more advanced. Now they're working on ways to compress mp3 file formats.

It just gets better and better and the RIAA cant do a damn thing about it.

[DoctorDoom]

The issue is defending what you readily admit is piracy.

Main Entry: pi·ra·cy
Pronunciation: 'pI-r&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
Etymology: Medieval Latin piratia, from Late Greek peirateia, from Greek peiratEs pirate
Date: 1537
1 : an act of robbery on the high seas; also : an act resembling such robbery
2 : robbery on the high seas
3 : the unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright

The concept that brazen theft of music and video is okay because it's "getting even" with entertainment corporations is precisely equivalent to approving of shoplifting to "get even" with WalMart or Sears.

Theft is theft, and no amount of specious justification for it will alter the fact. If people are nailed to the wall for stealing music and video, let them face the consequences that they were aware of when they started.

[Seeker of Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
Theft is theft, and no amount of specious justification for it will alter the fact. If people are nailed to the wall for stealing music and video, let them face the consequences that they were aware of when they started.


[/ QUOTE ]

Give me a friggin break.

There is no difference between what is being done today with WinMX & Kazaa than what was being done yesterday with TDK & Maxell.

Oh boo hoo hoo..No one was bitching back then when you could record a tape and give it to one of your buddies as long as weren't selling it.

Or how about VHS when everyone and their brother were recording movies off of HBO or Showtime. No one was bitching then.

It's like a plane crash..Pretty catastrophic heh? Gets everyones attention because more people happen to get killed in one when it happens but it's still the safest mode of transportation in the world.

Same thing with WinMX. It gets more attention because music is being shared by more people, not by the old method of slapping a TDK or a Maxell blank tape in a tape-deck to do some good ol fashion dubbing, only to give said tape to a buddy to listen to. No sale involved in that move. Thats theft of intellectual property.

[2nd_Amendment]

Justification? I don't seek to justify it at all. I fundamentally don't give a shit. I'll take the one song from the rare album that I want and if they feel they can do something about it they have my address and phone number.

Regardless, you repeatedly ignore the fact that the music industry has a very easy way out on this: Quit blaming everyone else for their piss-poor product and outrageous prices. That IS all it's about. They whined about reel-to-reel, they whined about casettes, now they whine about MP3's and all the while the product continues to go to hell.

And before someone pops up with something about what will I do when the music industry ceases to exist because of its' own dead weight? Happily listen to what was produced 20 to 50 years ago and enver miss the ignorant bastards. But then, that won't happen because it IS all about money and before they take their final dive they will indeed fix their problems.

[Seeker of Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
Same thing with WinMX. It gets more attention because music is being shared by more people, not by the old method of slapping a TDK or a Maxell blank tape in a tape-deck to do some good ol fashion dubbing, only to give said tape to a buddy to listen to. No sale involved in that move. Thats theft of intellectual property.



[/ QUOTE ]


Ahhh now enter WinMX and Kazaa.

Now music is being traded on larger scale and the folks over at RIAA central are getting a bit nervous.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!.What the hell are we going to do? We were ok when folks were recording blank tapes but now they're downloading it off the internet..Ohhhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyy Gaaawwddddd..Ohhhhhh Noooooooo..The world is falling all around us and we cant stop it...It's tooooooo much for are feebled minds to take..Did we see this coming?....Ohhhhh Nooooooooooooo..Why didn't someone say something?....Who is this Sean Fanning guy?...Where did he come from?...Ohhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyy gaawwwddddddd!!!!!!!!!..What about all of our money?..Ohhhhhh noooooooo..Alllllllllll of ourrrrrr moneyyyyyyyyy...Ohhhhh noooooooooooo....We're going to lose millions....Ohhhhhhh noooooooooooo. What can we do?..Ohhhhhhh nooooooooooo

Meanwhile did the RIAA mention they were concerned about the ARTIST'S?...Nope.

[Seeker of Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
And before someone pops up with something about what will I do when the music industry ceases to exist because of its' own dead weight? Happily listen to what was produced 20 to 50 years ago and enver miss the ignorant bastards. But then, that won't happen because it IS all about money and before they take their final dive they will indeed fix their problems.



[/ QUOTE ]

How right you are 2A.

The RIAA is a bunch of greedy bastards and folks like Doc support these idiots.

Doc i like you alot i hope you know that but i have to take a stand on this issue.

I think as grown men we can agree to disagree on certain issues and this is one of those issues.

The RIAA doesn't give a damn about the artist's who are trying to make a buck. The RIAA wants to control how the music gets published and distributed. They only care about their bottom line.

Alot of musicians have stated this time and time again. Thats why they like p2p clients like WinMX & Kazaa because it gives them precious exposure that they wouldn't have gotten if the RIAA had it's way.

The RIAA lies constantly about their record sales figures to gain public sympathy.

WinMX gives people an oppurtunity to listen to a few tracks before they go out and buy. Record sales in Europe continue to rise but the RIAA wouldn't tell ya that.

Folks like Paul Oakenfold love p2p clients like WinMX because it gets him valuable exposure and when he goes on tour he packs em in. He makes millions on tour because of WinMX but the RIAA doesn't see any of that money. It goes directly to him.

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

Seeker,

I've read this thread completely and I am still confused. I don't see how the fact that the RIAA is so bad makes it OK for people to go outside of the law. If you want change, Congress is the entity to contact.

Please understand my position here. I'm not saying that the law shouldn't be changed. That is a different issue to be debated at another time. But, for now, the law is the law. I don't see why this isn't a violation of copyright under it.

[DoctorDoom]

[ QUOTE ]
Most of those DLing music aren't opening their HD's to the net. They DL the music and software to a dedicated HD, not only out of concern for potential virii but also simply as a space consideration.

[/ QUOTE ]
MOST???? That's a pretty broad assumption. I challenge someone to poll 1000 users of the "services" and find out how many of them have clue one about installing a slave hard drive.

PTP is an entrance into one's computer. There are frigging corporate IT groups that have no security awareness (leading to the Code Red/Nimda infestation, e.g.). Do you really think that the vast majority of computer users have the slightest comprehension of what's going on in a PTP network? Shit, dude, 99.9% of users out there have never run a scandisk or defrag, let alone taken adequate security precautions.

The evidence of the obliviousness of the vast majority of users to basic security precautions is the constant barrage of virus-laden emails that one receives when another little beasty gets into the wild. When KlezH was hammering away at the Net, the majority of infected emails that I got were from members of a Windows tech board where I moderate. If THEY let their boxes be compromised, WTF can one expect from those who buy an $800 POS from a retailer and go online without the merest acquaintance with the dangers involved?

[ QUOTE ]
Also, in seven years of the operation of this ISP nobody has encountered a virus attached in the method you describe, Doom. I'm sure it happens, but it is a vanishingly small rarity.

[/ QUOTE ]
Come now. NO ONE received ILOVEYOU? I find that hard to believe.

[ QUOTE ]
W32.Bugbear@mm: The subject and attachment name of incoming emails are randomly chosen. The attachment will have a double extension ending in .exe, .scr, or .pif.

[snip]

W32.Liac.A@mm also attempts to use Microsoft Outlook to send emails to all contacts in the Windows Address Book.

The email includes the following text:

Subject: FW:FW: LILAC project video attach
Message: Things that the govt. dont want you to know
Attachment: LILAC_WHAT_A_WONDERFULNAME.avi.exe

[/ QUOTE ]
Virus Alerts (http://staff.chsd218.org/ADM/kolzej/virus_alerts.htm)

[ QUOTE ]
Win32.SirCam.137216 is an e-mail worm which sends itself as well as clean documents from an infected machine... The attachment name is variable, but will have a double extension, for example "SCRIPT.DOC.PIF". The actual extension may be "PIF", "LNK", "BAT", "EXE" or "COM".

[snip]

Win32/BadTrans.13312 is a worm which uses MAPI to spread through email and also drops a password stealing trojan... The attachment name is chosen from the following:

fun.pif
Humor.TXT.pif
docs.scr
s3msong.MP3.pif
Sorry_about_yesterday.DOC.pif
Me_nude.AVI.pif
Card.pif
SETUP.pif
searchURL.scr
YOU_are_FAT!.TXT.pif
hamster.ZIP.scr
news_doc.scr
New_Napster_Site.DOC.scr
README.TXT.pif
images.pif
Pics.ZIP.scr

[/ QUOTE ]
HELPDESK - VIRUS ALERTS & MORE (http://healthweb.ofs.gov.za/html/helponline_hdvirus.html)

[ QUOTE ]
MTX Virus

This virus arrives as a blank e-mail message with an attachment. It will come from someone who just sent you a legitimate message. This attachment will bear one of these names:

README.TXT.pif
I_wanna_see_YOU.TXT.pif
< long list clipped >
BLINK_182.MP3.pif

Notice the double extensions. It's possible that your mail reader will hide the second extension so that this attachment looks like an innocent file.

[/ QUOTE ]
Identifying Some of the Current Viruses and Hoaxes (http://www.hillcrest.us/HHS/currentviruses.html)

[ QUOTE ]
Yaha screensaver worm spreading
By Robert Vamosi

NOTE: This is one of those that has a double extension for the attachment, so it might look like mycomputer.gif.bat Watch out because you will not open a gif you will open the .bat and BAM -- YOU'VE BEEN ZAPPED. (mlf)

[/ QUOTE ]
KCNET NEWSLETTER 07/14/02 (http://www.seniorcenter.net/netlearnernews/archives02/srspg3_07_142.html)

[ QUOTE ]
4. What is a double-extension and can I avoid them?

Virus programmers will often attempt to disguise their program as another file by naming it something like wacky.jpg.vbs (a normal file would be wacky.jpg). When you open the attachment in Windows, you see the 'wacky.jpg' but the .vbs extension (meaning Visual Basic Script), is omitted. Such a file extension could potentially be dangerous to your system, if it is a virus or a worm. (Note: If you ever see a file attachment that has an icon that looks like a light blue 'S', do NOT open it.) Watch for these file extensions and don't open any attachments bearing any of them: .js, .jse, .vbs, .scr, .shs, and .shb.

[/ QUOTE ]
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (http://www.uma.maine.edu/cs/virusquesttext.html)

They're a "a vanishingly small rarity"?

[ QUOTE ]
Face it, the music industry is creating its' own demise. If the music being produced was worth listening to and the pricing was reasonable there would be little need for these services. But instead they continue to produce garbage appealing to the lowest common denominator...

[/ QUOTE ]
So the "need" for the services is to allow people to fetch the "garbage" for free. Wonderful! It's okay to steal "garbage"? What the **** is the rationale for wanting "garbage" that's not "worth listening to", free or otherwise?

Or does the theft involve the "one good piece on any given release"?

All this is immaterial, because the proponents of this organized theft are without a legal recourse if busted.

And, if the music industry ultimately does self-destruct, aided and abetted by Internet piracy that denies recompense for products, where will the next music to be stolen come from?

[DoctorDoom]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no difference between what is being done today with WinMX &amp; Kazaa than what was being done yesterday with TDK &amp; Maxell.

[/ QUOTE ]
No difference? Give me a break, dude. You can't be serious. There is a FUNDAMENTAL difference, the difference being analog vs digital. Here's some tech info for those who believe the nonsense that they are equivalent.

Tape recording is an analog process. It is accomplished by impressing a variable signal level onto the tape. The signal represents the actual waveform of the music or whatever it might be. There is no such thing as a perfect copy of an analog recording. Every generation is a deteriorated version of the one before, due to tape quality, read and write head quality, the quality of the electronics, etcetera. Within three or four generations, the copies are terrible. Ever watch a third or fourth generation VHS tape? It looks like shit.

Digital recording, OTOH, is a sequence of discrete levels, 1s and 0s. Because of that, variations in electronics are irrelevant. The copy is exactly the same as the original, and the 10,000th copy is exactly the same as the first. A downloaded MP3 file is identical to the one on the source machine. Ergo, ONE ripped CD can spawn one million perfect copies over 100,000 generations.

To be absolutely accurate, an MP3 is an audio quality compromise in order to cram twenty or thirty megabytes from a CD into a three or four meg MP3. But, the compression is pretty much unnoticeable to the average listener (and people who pirate MP3s are probably tone deaf if not close to stone deaf anyway, due to the loudness of the ear-mutilating crap they listen to).

[ QUOTE ]
Same thing with WinMX. It gets more attention because music is being shared by more people, not by the old method of slapping a TDK or a Maxell blank tape in a tape-deck to do some good ol fashion dubbing, only to give said tape to a buddy to listen to. No sale involved in that move.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you ever buy one tape and bang out ten thousand copies for everyone in your city? That's what the "services" are in effect doing.

What appals me is the inevitable hissyfit that's thrown when it's suggested that what the pirates are doing is simply wrong by the very nature of it. The pathetic justifications for theft are incredible. It's a pretty sorry commentary on our culture when thievery is lionized and those who point out that it's theft are ridiculed or attacked.


A parallel concept: you write a book and have it published. Joe Blow buys a copy, scans it and converts it into a PDF file, then uploads it to a PTP network. It's a best-"seller", and it's downloaded a hundred thousand times. But, not one print copy is sold, and your royalties are exactly zip.

When Joe Blow is called to task, he proclaims, "The company wanted too much for the book, and anyway, most of its books are garbage. And besides, it's no different from making copies on a Xerox machine for my friends, so what's the bitch?" He is immediately elevated to hero status, the Web is full of people lauding him and calling book publishers a bunch of monopolistic tyrants, and you, the author, are well and truly ****ed out of your royalties. Will you immediately sit down and write another book hoping to make money off the next attempt?


Q: has conservatism, the bastion of individual achievement and the champion of free enterprise, become so polluted that it is now okay for conservatives to steal the works of others as long as the theft is rationalized?

[Seeker of Truth]

I suggest you read the following article to get a better understanding of this..The article is quite lengthy.

MP3 Technology and the Evolving Law Around It
By Lonny L. Kolln II
April 13, 2001



mp3 Technology And The Evolving Law Around It (http://www.uiowa.edu/~cyberlaw/cls01/kolln3.html)


MP3 technology has invaded the United States in the last couple of years. Today, it is a major part of life not only for college students, but also for many other segments of the population. The spread of MP3 technology has affected the Internet, the music industry, the evening news, and many other forums. The prevalence of MP3 technology means that we must address the technology and the questions that arise from the use of the technology. First, what exactly is MP3 technology, and how has it changed the face of the digital world? Next, what are the laws that may affect the advancement of MP3 technology, and how are current laws being shaped to deal with the emergence of MP3s? Finally, what will be the future of MP3 technology as the copyright laws and the digital world adjust to this new technology?
WHAT IS MP3 TECHNOLOGY?

Today, MP3s have become part of the computer landscape, and are widely recognized as the most popular format for storing and listening to music on the World Wide Web.1 That said there are still many people who do not know exactly what an MP3 is. MP3 or MPEG-3 is a short reference for the Motion Picture Experts Group, Layer 3 digital audio format.2 MPEG is an organization that sets international standards for digital formats for audio and video.3 The Frauenhofer Institute in Germany developed MP3 technology.4 MP3 is a format that compresses or shrinks audio files with only a minimal sacrifice in sound quality.5 MP3 files offer a range of compression rates, of course the more the files are compressed the worse the sound quality, but the smaller the file.6 A standard MP3 compression ratio is 10:1, and results in a file that is about four megabytes for a three-minute recording.7 Obviously, before compression this would have been a forty-megabyte file.

The exciting development of MP3s has lead millions of people to upload8 or download9 MP3 files. These digital files can be placed on and downloaded from the World Wide Web. In addition to the smaller size of MP3 files the simultaneous increase in transfer rates has lead to an explosion of online MP3 trading. Using a cable modem a 3.5-megabyte file can be downloaded in about one second.10 A 28.8-kpbs modem will take 16 minutes to download the same file.11 A third factor that has helped the explosion of MP3s is the rapid reduction in the cost of computer hard drive space. The MP3 compression element was initially most important when individuals did not have large hard drives. Today the compression factor is less of a concern with the declining price of hard drive space.12 The cost of storing a massive amount of MP3s has declined significantly. These factors together have made it possible for individuals to have a considerable number of MP3 files on their individual computers.

In addition to downloading individuals can create their own MP3 files from music CDs. The two steps to make MP3s from compact discs are ripping13 and encoding14.15 First the tracks are copied from an audio CD to a computer's hard drive as WAV16 files.17 Then the WAV files are "encoded" into the much smaller MP3 files.18 Many programs make this possible such as AudioGrabber, MPEG Encoder Suite, Windac, MusicMatch and AudioCatalyst.19
There are dozens of MP3 players available, and many computers now come with one already pre-installed.20 Some of the most popular are Winamp21, MusicMatch Jukebox22, and the Windows Media Player23.24 There are also portable MP3 players, such as the Diamond Rio.25

An individual can also use MP3 files to create CDs. Music files can "burned"26 onto a CD through the use of a CD burner27.28 This is done by decoding the MP3s into WAV files.29 This can be done with a program such as Winamp.30 Then the individual just has to "burn" the WAV files to the CD using the software that came with the CD burner.31 An individual that has a CD burner can literally make a CD that contains any group of songs that the individual has.

MP3s have come into the picture and revolutionized the way that music is being exchanged today. Along with the emergence of MP3 technology there has been an explosion of software programs and web-sites that have been created to facilitate the exchange of MP3s. The best known of these programs is Napster.32 Napster is a file-sharing software program that allows people using the program to log-on to the Napster system and share MP3 files with other users who are logged-on to the system.33 It was estimated that in mid-March 2001 the number of users on the Napster system at any given time was 1.5 million people.34 Due to an early March 2001 court injunction ruling that has instituted filtering of copyrighted songs the number of users on the Napster system at any given time has dropped to 1.1 million people.35 Overall, there are currently 64 million registered Napster users.36 In addition to Napster there are many other software programs that facilitate the trading of MP3s. Among those programs are Gnutella, Bearshare37, and Limewire38. The main difference between these programs and Napster is that unlike Napster these programs do not go through a central server.39 Along with all the software programs that are available there are also many web-sites devoted to the distribution of MP3s. Among these sites are MP3.com40 and Audiofind41.

[DoctorDoom]

The article is informative, but does not address whether it is right and moral to use the technology to deprive a copyright holder of recompense for his work.

The fact that something is being done is not a valid argument for doing it.

[Seeker of Truth]

Who's moral Doc..The RIAA? The Music Industry? The Record Labels?

Who's the most moral in the recording industry?



Source (http://www.boycott-riaa.com/facts/)


Every Music CDR since the AHRA was enacted has a hidden tax built into the price! (2% of the manufacturers sales) This is supposedly to pay the artists for home recording. Who Collects the Tax? The RIAA under the auspices of the AARC. Who shares office space with the RIAA and has many of the RIAA employees working for it. I haven't been able to find one artist that was paid a cent of the money. 4% is set aside for non-featured artists, of the remainder 40% for the featured artist and 60% for the labels. To date I have not found one artist who has received one cent of this money. (Source: RIAA website) In addition every CD recorder has a $2.00 surcharge built into the price that goes directly to the RIAA
The artists received not one cent of the money from the MP3.Com settlements of approx $158 Million to the labels. Who did??? The label themselves.

"SoundExchange" the new digital rights collective for collecting royalties from internet play is a division of the RIAA. They did not distribute royalties in July 2001 as they were supposed to do, but instead decided to wait until next year.

85% of all music is released by 5 major labels (Sony, EMI, UMG, Time Warner, &amp; BMG)
Federal Trade Commission (FTC Statement)

At any given point about 20% of the music every recorded is available legally. The rest is locked away by the labels depriving the creators of a potential source of income, the fans of the music they want, while creating a false market for the band "d'jour."

[Seeker of Truth]

Source (http://www.evilsite.org/evil/RIAA/)


RIAA is Evil.
The Recording Industry Association of America. A conglomerate made up of all the biggest music corporations in the country. They control, according to their web site, 90% of all "legitimate" recordings produced in the USA.

Was I not paying attention? Did monopolies suddenly become legal?

The RIAA claims to be acting in the public and artist's best interests when they do things like lobby for tighter copyright protection, attack Napster, or try to set up their own Digital Rights Management software. Upon close examination, it becomes obvious that the RIAA is only acting in the best interests of the RIAA and the giant corporations that it represents -- musicians and artists be damned.

Until recently, if a musician wrote a song while under contract with a big recording house, he would stand a chance of eventually recovering his copyright (after many decades). But as Wired points out:

"Last year, the RIAA lobbied to insert into unrelated legislation a clause preventing copyrights from reverting to their authors... By adding four words -– "as a sound recording" -– deep within the Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act of 1999, Congress essentially changed the work-for-hire section of the copyright code.

"...the last time this question went to Congress, musicians and the major labels became embroiled in a year-long debate that publicly hurt the Recording Industry Association of America's credibility."

Copyrights used to be 7 years, plus a 7 year extension. Thanks to extensive lobbying on the part of organizations like the RIAA, they are now the life of the author plus 75 years. Copyrights were designed to ensure that after a short time, art and science would become public so that everyone could benefit from them -- but they have been hijacked.

The RIAA's constituent corporations control virtually every aspect of music production -- they own the record studios, they own the production factories, they own the distribution networks, they own the radio stations, they own MTV and other music television stations. There is no alternative -- if you want to be a popular musician, you absolutely must do business with them. The definition of monopoly.

And of course, because they have a monopoly, the terms that to which artists are required to agree are amazingly unfair. Musicians finance their own albums, videos, and tours -- but profits go to the record companies. They must sign away their rights to their music -- often retroactively and indefinitely. From then on, the art that they create is no longer their own, and they have no control over it. Just ask The Beatles, who watched Michael Jackson outbid Paul McCartney for the rights to their music, and who now have no control over how it's used. I bet Paul loves watching his life's work be used to sell products (like the recent H&amp;R Block commercials that use Tax Man). It's hard to understand how this is anything but theft -- but of course, when you have as much money as the RIAA, you can buy any laws you want. California has laws that prohibit a company from making someone sign a service contract that lasts more than 7 years -- but there's a special exemption for music contracts!

[2nd_Amendment]

*yawn*

Your argument begins and ends with the pockets of the RIAA. Mine begins and ends with the fact I simply don't care. By the way, your deliberate obtuseness is noted. DLing music is to avoid the garbage, plucking that one piece from a pile of trash.

Also, plenty of people recieved the ILoveYou virus, along with about 15 other new ones everyday. But none of them came from DLing music files. Oh, and slave drives are as common as flies today. One of the effects of dirt-cheap hardware and the natural desire to want the fanciest toy around.

As I said, Doc, if they're that worried then they know where to find me. If not I'll send 'em a letter. Otherwise, Scroom.

[Wyatt_Junker]

Uncompensated authors. Its already happening Doc.

I went on eBay to look for eBooks for my new Sony PDA and the place is littered with memory sticks that contain roughly 1,000 books for a stinking $2.95!

Where in THE hell exactly is the business sense in that? NTM, the idea of assigned value as an impramateur for furthering the creatvie tide.

When copyrights on content are abased, and the incentive to create more is thusly murdered not only is the future of music, the future of movies, the future of decent writing threatened...so is, in an oblique way, culture.

Take writing. When it is suddenly jolted free of its papyrus, its centuries of binding, its retail then the written word becomes as useless as newspaper "journalism", no value so throw it away after wiping your ass with it.

You have to keep a consumer mentality going. You have to give value to well filtered, editorialized thought. Otherwise its just a heap o' voices straining above a volley of screams, trying to reach newer decibels to hijack that latest round of pandemonium. Money is the key. Money unlocks the door and also locks it when leaving.

The only movies you'll ever see, devoid of perfectly honed tits(no more Selema Hayek: think Desperado when Antonio Banderas gladhandled her), devoid of flashy 'sploshuns(think Private Ryan). All gone, thanks to Seeker &amp; his fellow cyber suck pumpers, all of it flushed along with the money that was the glue to keeping it so alive.

Music(2A is right) already sucks, at least the current pap, 'scuse me...pop. But, there is still a healthy underground swell sponsored by the label's meat for developing artists. Money is funding some good spawns.

And writing I already said. It'll go the way of mag rags and propaganda.

[DoctorDoom]

[ QUOTE ]
Who's moral Doc..The RIAA? The Music Industry? The Record Labels?

Who's the most moral in the recording industry?

[/ QUOTE ]
What has that to do with personal responsibility and accountability? "In my opinion, these people are all reprehensible, so I am therefore justified in stealing their products."

I now see where the liberals got their notion that what BlowJob Billy did was acceptable because it was no worse than what other people do. They got it from conservatives with no concept of right and wrong.

[DoctorDoom]

[ QUOTE ]
Your argument begins and ends with the pockets of the RIAA.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, twit, to someone with basic reading comprehension skills, it is obvious that my argument is neither in favor of nor against the RIAA, but rather what is right and proper for the individual to do, regardless of what the RIAA and the companies are doing.

[ QUOTE ]
Mine begins and ends with the fact I simply don't care.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, you wouldn't. Those whose holy trinity is "me, myself and I" never care.

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, your deliberate obtuseness is noted.

[/ QUOTE ]
And your deliberate lack of morals and ethics is also duly noted.

[ QUOTE ]
DLing music is to avoid the garbage, plucking that one piece from a pile of trash.

[/ QUOTE ]
So, you expect that by stealing this one piece and discarding the trash, you're providing an incentive to the ee-vill companies to produce CDs with ALL good stuff so you can pirate that also. Is that about it?

Spare me your rationalizations. You're showing yourself to be no better than those you protest.

[2nd_Amendment]

If you can't speak without name calling then please be silent. I've never, frankly, been overly impressed with you and you pretty much just signed your death warrant with me.

As for your argument, it's a solely financially based screed in defense of a tottering economic and technological arrangement whose time has likely passed. If you are unable to see the basis of your own argument, which is common for you, then that is not my problem. Regardless, do try to restrain your ad homs.

[Wyatt_Junker]

As for your argument, it's a solely financially based screed in defense of a tottering economic and technological arrangement whose time has likely passed.

I don't think Doc was referring to "a tottering economic and technological arrangement". His angle was mostly ethical. MINE was economical and technological.

And I don't agree that its "time has likely passed" anymore than I believed there was any such nonsense as a "new economy". Those Merrill Lynchisms have long since died. You know, the ones about the old economy being displaced by the new Sillyconed Valley Girl one? It was a bunch of bogus shit.

The only ones whose time has likely passed are the dotbombs. The NASDAQ index has been battered and will likely be battered s'more as its value is really around 900 not the current 1300 (more or less) its been pegged at and certainly not the 5,000 fairy tale.

Investors don't want more gizmo worship. They want a return to solid returns. Its all about earnings(and always has been). Tech HAS HAD TO FALL IN LINE not Warren Buffet. If only I'd listened to him prior to March 2000. I'll admit, I got e-ponzied pretty bad. Everyone wants to be a millionaire. But the frenzy is over. The blood was spilled. Time to move on.

Copyrights just got another 20 year life extension by the SCOTUS(I think it was 7 to 2). Mickey Mouse doesn't have to go into rehab. Walt can stay iced in his igloo cabin of tommorrow uninterrupted. Profits can be had...still.

The internet is no different. It WILL fall into line like all things must. There are no anarchist wet dreams concerning the internet anymore. It will be contained, legislated, and disciplined because money is and always has been the prime mover of capitalism. Copyrights will supercede gizmos. Once the exponential growth of change and innovation peaks out(it already has:::PC sales are sucking goat dick), then worth will be given back to other kinds of innovation, ie, thought itself again: Perfectly played e minor chords in-between iambic pentameter. Catherine Zeta Jones sculptured on screen for your viewing pleasure. X-Box, Y-Box, Z-Box. Packaged, sold and very well contained.

[2nd_Amendment]

It's all about money and technology. There is no morality here. As for time passing the industry by, it very likely has from a purely technical viewpoint. Just as records lost ground to tapes and died before the onslaught of CD's so to will CD's lose to the MP3 rage, and whatever comes after it. It's simply too convenient, especially as connection speed increases and memory space expands.

As for things peaking with computers, I've learned a lot in the few months of being hardwired to the internet here. Legislation? Forgedaboutit. There's simply no physical way to effectively control what people do online. And even as the technology gains ground it accomplishes nothing because the users are gaining as well. Also, the death of the pre-built computer is largely because of how easy it is to build one today. Why buy one when any corner store can built one 50% "better" for the same price.

Anyway, I am on ICQ with three people and trying to DL pics for the damn refinancing so I can't devote my full attention to this. I'll annoy you more tomorrow.

[MaximumSam]

What appals me is the inevitable hissyfit that's thrown when it's suggested that what the pirates are doing is simply wrong by the very nature of it.

If I download an 'illegal' MP3, what am I stealing? Does real, moral theft require I take something away from someone else? The artist released his music to the public, so it is going to get copied. Everyone knows it. So why is it wrong?

[DoctorDoom]

First, I formally apologize to 2A for the above excesses. They were born of frustration at being unable to make a point on the inherent wrongness of theft of music without being accused of fronting for the RIAA, which I do not.

[ QUOTE ]
[If you can't speak without name calling then please be silent. I've never, frankly, been overly impressed with you and you pretty much just signed your death warrant with me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your "death warrant" is acceptable to me. It's in keeping with being declared "deliberately obtuse" for supporting personal ethics and responsibility in a world of "I want it, therefore it's mine" amorality.

I shall henceforth ignore 2A's posts, and expect that he will do likewise with mine.