Scumbags that need killing

[Federal Farmer]

conservatives by their very nature are biggoted, its natural for racist shit to spew from their mouths. try comparing this website to http://www.stormfront.org (http://www.stormfront.org/) , you'll find a striking similarity
I don't believe I've ever read a post at this site more revealing of its author.

[bumble]

Why not, we abort them everyday because it's cheaper and more convenient then raising them...

its like talking to a psychotic brick wall.....

if a baby isnt going to be loved and possibly ruin the mothers life is it still worth having, and whilst it is still in the womb it is a foetus, looters for all their crimes are fully formed human beings.

[PatrioticAmerican]

bumble, your protestations on behalf of looters are misguided and inane, and do not excuse such behavior. Looting anything but food and survival gear is lawlessness that leads to worse crimes. You've pretty much stated your case, it is wrong, now please STFU.

You're being contrary for the sake of being so. It's idiotic and a waste of bandwidth.

[bumble]

i feel that shooting someone over afew hundred dollars worth of electrical goods is apauling and i'll post it as i see it.

[Pendragon_6]

You see it through opaque lenses.

[aaron11]

its like talking to a psychotic brick wall.....

if a baby isnt going to be loved and possibly ruin the mothers life is it still worth having, and whilst it is still in the womb it is a foetus, looters for all their crimes are fully formed human beings.

Yes, Do you not know why that is? Because my beliefs are neither selfish or ignorant, unlike the typical knee-jerk liberal, whom simply argues the company line regardless to logic...

Life is life, the "worth" of that life is not for you or i to decide, it ALL needs to be coveted... These criminals are adults who know better, personally i have more compassion for the innocent. As they represent NO harm to other innocent life, i cannot say they same for the thugs that are ravaging NO, can you?

[DesertFox]

conservatives by their very nature are biggoted, its natural for racist shit to spew from their mouths. You are (1) a liar and (2) outta here, you freaking idiot punk bigot.

[bumble]

if you honestly beleive that everyone here arent towing the party line (particularly on the war, its where the neocons excel) then i guess you arent lying to me.

[PatrioticAmerican]

It isn't about towing any line, schmuck. When something is true, it's true. If we agree with the truth, and it isn't the truth you want to hear, that is your problem. Buzz off, bumble. Yer buggin me.

[DoctorDoom]

Buzz off, bumble. Yer buggin me.Bumble doesn't buzz here any more.

[Federal Farmer]

Yea, the little bug became juice on DF's windshield.

[Riverboat]

i feel that shooting someone over afew hundred dollars worth of electrical goods is apauling and i'll post it as i see it.If he really means that, he should post his address and leave his door open with a welcome mat for the criminal element.

I can't believe he got as far as 62 posts.

[Riverboat]

Be aware, folks, that we have black Freecers as well as white. It's expecting too much of human nature that a black Freecer not be a bit disgruntled at the tone of some of the posts in this thread.Your point is well-taken. But if I were black, I would be far more disgruntled at the animal behavior of people of my race, like that web-site that pea-brain posted for white racists. They scare me, too.

[Incident_command]

i feel that shooting someone over afew hundred dollars worth of electrical goods is apauling and i'll post it as i see it.

And you're an asshole. I post it as I see it.

[Riverboat]

And you're an asshole. I post it as I see it.And shitty at spelling, too. As I see it. ;)

[UnkHiram]

conservatives by their very nature are biggoted, its natural for racist shit to spew from their mouths. try comparing this website to http://www.stormfront.org (http://www.stormfront.org/) , you'll find a striking similarity

Excuse me but that is a load of bull. Conservatives are no more racist than any other group. You got some proof to back up your stupidity or are you just trying to show us that you are an asshole?

[UnkHiram]

qft

you shouldnt just shoot another human being because it would take longer to arrest them.

Absolutely correct, dont shoot them because it is easier. SHOOT The Scum because in the midst of the worst disaster in the history of this nation all they care about is their personal greed. We dont need scumbags like that in this country.

[Venus de Smilo]

Shadow, I've read your several posts to me. I stand by everything I've previously stated without hesitation and with no regrets. If you think what we've seen of black Americans in NO represents America at its best and you're proud of them, that's on you.

[maxparrish]

Okay, I'll bite at the risk of getting singed. I'm not suggesting that anyone is necessarily missing the real truth, but just in case.

Most of the thugs that trashed Seattle were white. Ditto Paris. Most of those who have trashed our soldiers and their courageous efforts on behalf of Western Civilization abroad and nearby at Gitmo are lily white -- fat and stupid and ugly as sin, spewing their obscenities from the halls of Congress!

Perhaps we might see these previous posts in a different light and a different shade of color.

I don't have time to read related links (or all of the current thread), so forgive me if I don't refer to their text. However, being less angry I have taken a second look.

The first thing we need to address has been the old elephant in the room - race. Free Conservatives has never sounded remotely close to Stormfronter (the IDII debate board boogyman). Conservatives, unlike liberals, have not had to restrain themselves nearly as much because their philosophy precludes collective judgements over the only important factor in our beliefs - individual character.

I continue to believe that ONLY a philosophy of individualism, free social relationships, and liberty can provide a happy society. I never have, and never will, judge an individual by their race or sub-culture, I chose who I like, and who I distrust or dislike, according to their moral worth as human beings.

However, I'm also fed up with the touchy refusals to note OBVIOUS race/cultural/class/political behavior that is rooted in certain groups. What has been obvious to every Joe 6 pack of every race is "VERBOTEN" in polite circles. While such characteristics say nothing about an individual (certainly not in my case), it is dumb to pretend it does not exist.

African Americans, Tidewater Whites, Cajuns, New England Protestants, Irish, Appalachian whites, Hispanics, Native Americans, etc. DO have traits...intellectual, spiritual, pyschological, and emotional. When a culture is established, without assimilation, these traits are especially noticable. Where these traits come from (genes, culture, pre-natel, etc.) is a matter of dispute...that they exist should not be.

In my opinion, for the 70% of blacks that are not middle class or above, they share a collective behavior that is destructive and sometimes immoral. I don't believe it is all "economic", anymore than far lower rates of crime among northern (polar bear states) white poor is "economic"...and it is these characteristics that, rightly or wrongly, the media calls "Black". Only the black underclass is considered legitimate, only the urban black is considered real, only the unassimilated black is representative.

So, perhaps wrongly, I have bought into it. When I disgustingly say typical of African Americans I am speaking of those who show that individual/collective expression, among them: an attitude, chip on your shoulder anger; emotive; expressive; externalizer (would rather kill than commit suicide); social; extended family networked; dependent attitude.

The people of N.O. are not, however, just African Americans. Moreover, it is said they are the "bottom" of all black/whites of the deep south. So maybe this disgusting attitude is as much due to a unique culture of low lifes as it is any other factor.

On the other hand, one cannot ignore the obvious (in this case, LA, Newerk, etc.) the people of New Oreleans do not respond to disaster the same way as the people of Des Moines (a modest income area but mostly Northern white).

And when I think of how Americans should and have responded, Des Moines is what we really are and should be proud of (and I'm a person of mixed race background).

And that's being a straight shooter, not a patronizing fawner (I'm not speaking of you BTW...or anyone in particular).

[Venus de Smilo]

Great post, Max. I would add in minor disagreement that the dependent attitude doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is directed at whites, not other races or their own race - just whitey. I just haven't seen the extremities of the dependent attitude and 'chip on the shoulder' among poor, uneducated whites that we see in blacks, not all of whom are even poor. I think the 74% illegitimacy among blacks demonstrates that point best.

[maxparrish]

Great post, Max. I would add in minor disagreement that the dependent attitude doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is directed at whites, not other races or their own race - just whitey. I just haven't seen the extremities of the dependent attitude and 'chip on the shoulder' among poor, uneducated whites that we see in blacks, not all of whom are even poor. I think the 74% illegitimacy among blacks demonstrates that point best. No doubt American black culture and racial traits contribute to dependency and angry victimhood; much of it no longer related to experienced racism but folkloric experiences.

That is not to understate the existence of bigotry (e.g. Chicago), however its increasingly difficult to judge this as "unfair" or unwarranted. The rise of the black middle class has left a underclass whose inability to move upward is more likely due to thin talent or crippling culture, than any discrimination - I know of a friend at Kellog's is under constant preesure to find qualified blacks to fill management slots, a difficult challenge in spite of Chicago's huge black population. (Then there is the story where he hired a black male and the women activists got mad...and he was in trouble for not paying attention to the right quota).

If you've driven through "South Chicago", it is terrifying. If you've seen East St. Louis, you are risking your life. It is one thing to talk about "racism", and quite another to see the reasons whites, Asians, and middle-class blacks should be afraid.

As I consider myself "white" (one grandfather was likely black..my dad being an orphan), and as I was raised in an all white community (except for a hispanic or two) I never thought about race. And even later, in college, I gave it little thought (other than the political implicatons). However, when working in a mixed race (50-50 environment) and hiring employees with "quotas" regarding the race (or gender) I got to experience the sick, self affirming, system of entitlements has spread to most classes...everyone scrambling to be a "fill in the blank" for hiring preferences with a "I don't do windows" attitude.

Not all bias/bigotry is undeserved, and much of it caused by the very programs designed to end it.

[Bluemoon_Rising]

conservatives by their very nature are biggoted, its natural for racist shit to spew from their mouths. try comparing this website to http://www.stormfront.org , you'll find a striking similarity
:rolleyes:

[Venus de Smilo]

No doubt American black culture and racial traits contribute to dependency and angry victimhood; much of it no longer related to experienced racism but folkloric experiences.

That is not to understate the existence of bigotry (e.g. Chicago), however its increasing difficult to judge this as "unfair" or unwarranted. The rise of the black middle class has left a underclass whose inability to move upward is more likely due to thin talent or crippling culture, than any discrimination - I know of a friend at Kellog's is under constant preesure to find qualified blacks to fill management slots, a difficult challenge in spite of Chicago's huge black population. (Then there is the story where he hired a black male and the women activists got mad...and he was in trouble for not paying attention to the right quota).

If you've driven through "South Chicago", it is terrifying. If you've seen East St. Louis, you are risking your life. It is one thing to talk about "racism", and quite another to see the reasons whites, Asians, and middle-class blacks should be afraid.

As I consider myself "white" (one grandfather was likely black..my dad being an orphan), and as I was raised in an all white community (except for a hispanic or two) I never thought about race. And even later, in college, I gave it little thought (other than the political implicatons). However, when working in a mixed race (50-50 environment) and hiring employees with "quotas" regarding the race (or gender) I got to experience the sick, self affirming, system of entitlements has spread to most classes...everyone scrambling to be a "fill in the blank" for hiring preferences with a "I don't do windows" attitude.

Not all bias/bigotry is undeserved, and much of it caused by the very programs designed to end it.

Agreed.

As to your last statement, we can thank LBJ and his great society for much of it, along with the lawyers and judges who have bastardized the Fourteenth Amendment and the Civil Rights Act.

[DesertFox]

for the 70% of blacks that are not middle class or aboveI believe it's Thomas Sowell who has cited stats that 2-3ds of black Americans are middle class or above. That was several years ago. Today it's prolly 70% who are middle class or above. It's one of the victories of the corrupt MSM that America still views blacks generally as struggling, lower-class types. It just isn't so, and hasn't been so for decades.

I still have a problem with sweeping generalizations that indict a whole class of folks for the rotten behavior of some. It's little different from liberals blaming Bush for everything wrong in America, or Europeans blaming America for everything wrong in the world. We who support Bush, and we who love America, get irked at that crap. It's probable that decent black folks get irked at being lumped with the criminal element. I think we all know that the big majority of blacks, as of whites, are law-abiding, decent people.

It is true that ignoring the race of the looters is as dumb as ignoring the Muslimness or Arabness of most modern terrorists. This can be pointed out, and discussed, without the tone that implies that blacks generally are responsible for the behavior of criminals in New Orleans, which is how it's coming across. Nobody, least of all decent black folks, likes hoodlums.

[Venus de Smilo]

I'll take Sowell's word for it. But are you sure about that number, Fox? I questioned the 30% as being low, too, when I read the post, but had no information at hand indicating otherwise.

[DesertFox]

It may have been Dinesh D'Souza in his landmark book, The End of Racism (1995). The numbers are correct. They took me aback at the time. I haven't revisited this issue in awhile and am hazy on who said it, but it was somebody reliable.

[Venus de Smilo]

Okay. I'll take your word for it. I know D'Souza has written about the subject, as have Sowell and Williams, and I know you also read their work from time to time. It seems realistic the more I think about it. It's good news indeed.

[bannerman]

If he really means that, he should post his address and leave his door open with a welcome mat for the criminal element.

I can't believe he got as far as 62 posts.

just when ya think moronic pc can get any more absurd it always will........

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/artcruncher/.2005/Camp%20CIndy/undocumented.jpg

[Shadow]

I believe it's Thomas Sowell who has cited stats that 2-3ds of black Americans are middle class or above. That was several years ago. Today it's prolly 70% who are middle class or above. It's one of the victories of the corrupt MSM that America still views blacks generally as struggling, lower-class types. It just isn't so, and hasn't been so for decades.

I still have a problem with sweeping generalizations that indict a whole class of folks for the rotten behavior of some. It's little different from liberals blaming Bush for everything wrong in America, or Europeans blaming America for everything wrong in the world.

It is true that ignoring the race of the looters is as dumb as ignoring the Muslimness or Arabness of most modern terrorists. This can be pointed out, and discussed, without the tone that implies that blacks generally are responsible for the behavior of criminals in New Orleans, which is how it's coming across. Nobody, least of all decent black folks, likes hoodlums.

One of the most intelligent posts on this subject. And the latest census reported 24% of blacks as being BELOW the poverty line, but racist tend to not want to hear this. One thing I want to note is related to your reference to the corrupt MSM. On every news channel, you are seeing the same handful of scenes repeated over and over. I am in Houston and my in-laws are from New Orleans. I have talked to them and their friends who have made it. Folks were NOT shooting at the helicopters bringing aid. Folks were shooting in the air in desperate attempts to get the attention of the helicopters. Someone admitted shooting into the air because trees blocked the view to the roof of the house. One may consider this bad judgement in a desperate situation, but there was no malace intent.

I am getting more and more info showing how the MSM has distorted this to extreme levels and treating rare incidents as commonplace by repeatedly showing the same scenes handful of scenes of looting over and over and over. I have been submitting more and more of what I have been told to the media and expressing to them their dishonesty.

I never thought that conservatism=racism. It amazes me that unquestionably conservative Rink was accused of acting like a liberal for speaking out against racism. There are those on the site who have high enough self esteem to not need to try and degrade another people in order to feel like they have worth.

Venus is a desperate racist who is reaching for anything to attack the people that she has aimed her psychotic hatred. When it comes to blacks, she doesn't know her a$$ from a hole in the ground.

[DesertFox]

Well, Shadow, I disagree about Venus. She's saying things that have needed to be said, distasteful as they are. She is saying what most of white America thinks. It needs to be heard whether it hurts feelings or not, whether it's accurate or not.

Blacks have been saying ugly things about whites, in sweeping generalizations, for two generations and counting; white sentiments have been ignored. That ain't debate, and it's dangerous for the long-term prospects of racial comity.

Venus is no racist, but she IS disgusted with the state of race relations in America. I don't see how anyone can honestly disagree. The crux of the problem is that any time a white person says anything less than wonderful about a black person, or blacks generally, the shouts of "RACISM!" immediately shower down and the white person is cowed into silence.

I don't like the tone of much of what Venus has said, and have said so; and I flat disagree with many of her generalizations about black folks, and have said so. But the thrust of most of her remarks are on target. If we are ever to get past racial animosity in America, these things need to be heard. Political America got over its anti-black racism 50 years ago; now it needs to get over its anti-white racism.

And if it isn't said straight-out, with all the anger that unfairness and injustice always generate, that will never happen. I don't blame you a bit for taking umbrage at her generalizations, but would urge you to look beyond the animus to the truths beneath. If we fix the problem, the animus will go away; if not, it will one day explode.

[Bluemoon_Rising]

I continue to believe that ONLY a philosophy of individualism, free social relationships, and liberty can provide a happy society. I never have, and never will, judge an individual by their race or sub-culture, I chose who I like, and who I distrust or dislike, according to their moral worth as human beings.

Of course.

However, I'm also fed up with the touchy refusals to note OBVIOUS race/cultural/class/political behavior that is rooted in certain groups. . . . While such characteristics say nothing about an individual . . . it is dumb to pretend it does not exist.

Well, there certainly hasn't been anything touchy-feely about this thread, and of course it's silly to talk as if things were otherwise. Besides, the differences we see are mostly colorful and enriching.

In my opinion, for the 70% of blacks that are not middle class or above, they share a collective behavior that is destructive and sometimes immoral. I don't believe it is all "economic", anymore than far lower rates of crime among northern (polar bear states) white poor is "economic"...and it is these characteristics that, rightly or wrongly, the media calls "Black". Only the black underclass is considered legitimate, only the urban black is considered real, only the unassimilated black is representative.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not entirely sure what most of this means. The first and second idea make some sense to me, but I'm not sure I follow the rest of it or just how the various pieces of the whole go together. Frankly, I'm not much interested in what most of the media have to say about anything, as most of it is stricken with the same sort of bestiality that is so immoderately prevalent among the black underclass.

We conservatives know that immorality is the cause of poverty and crime. It's not enough to confront the political left with the argument that crime is the cause of poverty, for even that allows it too much room to play games with semantics and the facts of reality. There is no correlation between crime and poverty; they are both the effects of moral corruption. One does not begin by violating the life, the liberty or the property of others. One begins by disgracing oneself in secret out of the sight of all others but God. Conservatives need to concentrate on the immorality of our society and demand that its institutions reflect that concern.

So, perhaps wrongly, I have bought into it. When I disgustingly say typical of African Americans I am speaking of those who show that individual/collective expression, among them: an attitude, chip on your shoulder anger; emotive; expressive; externalizer (would rather kill than commit suicide); social; extended family networked; dependent attitude.

I wonder if I'm being misunderstood here. Like Sowell, Williams, Armstrong and others, for example, I don't doubt for one moment that the most implacably feral and dangerous segment of our society lurks among the black underclass. The behavior captured in print and on camera by the media in New Orleans is neither exaggerated nor slanted. If anything, most of the media -- even FoxNews -- have been overly sensitive about certain facts.

Frankly, I wish more folks in the media would be more straightforward about this obvious circumstance in our society, for I am fed up with the way that high-profile white conservatives continue to so gingerly step around certain facts, forever allowing themselves to be bullied by white leftist demagogues. The latter are not the black man's friend, and they need to be told that again and again in the electronic media before the millions who know this to be true. Most whites -- not being leftist kooks -- know this. And there’s plenty of blacks who know this too. But most importantly, what they really need to know is that its okay to say it and vote it and shove it down lefty’s throat. I suppose the brunt of this particular task must eventually and necessarily fall on the shoulders of black conservatives, and most of them are bravely doing their part, but there's still not enough of them to go around. White conservatives have got to speak out more, and be willing to get in the faces of both the white and the black leftist elitists in this country. And thank God more and more conservative whites are finally seeing that and doing more of it. But when they speak out, they have got to make sense.

The point I'm trying to make here is that the best of Western culture, just like the best of black American culture, its music and characteristic frankness, belongs to us all. There is nothing inherently black or African about immorality.

On the other hand, one cannot ignore the obvious (in this case, LA, Newerk, etc.) the people of New Oreleans do not respond to disaster the same way as the people of Des Moines (a modest income area but mostly Northern white).

Yes, of course. Unlike the original, historic magnets of post-civil war Negro migration, Des Moines does not have a large and concentrated pool of human dependency and moral corruption lurking about.

And when I think of how Americans should and have responded, Des Moines is what we really are and should be proud of. And that's being a straight shooter, not a patronizing fawner . . .

Absolutely! But I'm not willing to confound the foibles of human nature with innocuous tribal and cultural traditions, those that are amicably suited to Western Civilization, and leave this nation's future and that of the black underclass in the hands of leftist pukes.


And that's being a straight shooter, not a patronizing fawner . . .
I believe my shot pattern's a bit tighter and more centered on the target.

[Bluemoon_Rising]

No doubt American black culture and racial traits contribute to dependency and angry victimhood; much of it no longer related to experienced racism but folkloric experiences.

This deserves separate treatment. Why isn't is possible that today's underbelly of popular black culture and its modes are the effects of dependency and moral corruption? which are essentially one and the same. Why can't things be the other way around? That makes more sense to me. In that case, angry victimhood would be a redundant term, and any folkloric experiences -- by which I assume you mean that some are milking decades-old grudges -- would simply be one of the many themes of the underbelly's culture -- just another effect, not a cause.

[Bluemoon_Rising]

Great post, Max. I would add in minor disagreement that the dependent attitude doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is directed at whites, not other races or their own race - just whitey. I just haven't seen the extremities of the dependent attitude and 'chip on the shoulder' among poor, uneducated whites that we see in blacks, not all of whom are even poor. I think the 74% illegitimacy among blacks demonstrates that point best.

What you've said here makes sense. But max's analysis is off, and in no small way it leads him astray of the proper target of our wrath, astray of the only real solution and winning strategy to our problem. In a nutshell: he and I disagree about cause and the actual nature of our enemy. And we had best understand that it’s our problem -- not something uniquely inherent to this or that group -- and deal with it accordingly.

[Bluemoon_Rising]

And if it isn't said straight-out, with all the anger that unfairness and injustice always generate, that will never happen. I don't blame you a bit for taking umbrage at her generalizations, but would urge you to look beyond the animus to the truths beneath. If we fix the problem, the animus will go away; if not, it will one day explode.

Agree.

Venus is no racist. Also, I'm not so sure that anyone is over-generalizing as much as some might be missing the actual nature of the problem. The same disease that plagues America's black underclass is the very same that plagues America's leftist elite -- white. The most politically effective and active segment of this disease at the rank and file level is white. What are we to make of that? It is foolish to think that their is something inherently servile and corrupt about blackness or American black culture proper, whatever the latter is. :question:

[Warlady]

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz SWAT...splat.. Kabooooooooooooom!!!!!!!!!!!!! Warlady spits on both hands and blows away the smoke.

[Venus de Smilo]

Quite true. What we are seeing is human debris.

Let me ask a few mathematical questions. If a rescue operation requires 5,000 able bodied men, and five thousand able bodied men are standing around crying about being a victim, how many rescue workers need to be brought in from outside?

If rescue workers always feed their own first, and if there is only food and water available to take care of 15,000 people, What percentage of group of 30,000 people can be cared for? (Remember, the 5,000 outside rescue workers eat first.)

If 5,000 workers filling sandbags could fill a breach in a levy in 48 hours, how long should 5,000 able bodied men stand around doing nothing until the Core of Engineers fixes the levy for them?

If your children have not eaten in five days, and some young (and tender) punk is shooting at rescuers, how many children do you let starve before you barbeque the punk?

If you have 5,000 able bodied men among 20,000 trapped on high ground, how many days do you wait to dig a latrine?

If a bus can drive through 2 1/2 feet of water and a man can walk through four feet of water, how long do you sit and starve before walking out the road the bus comes in on?

If someone dies near you, how many days should you walk around the body and let it decompose before moving it to a remote location?

This storm has showed us the undying spirit of American resolve, the extreme sacrifices some will endure to help their neighbors, and the utter depravity of a segment of the population that is a boil on the flesh of humanity. Those who loot, rape and kill in this time of crisis are quite simply subhuman. I would not hold it against any human being who saw them as merely another animal that could be used as a food source until help arrived.

I know of people that are on their way to help the victims of this catastrophe. They are all armed for their own protection. It's sad that human vermin has turned New Orleans into a war zone. It would be good if we could evacuate the humans and let the rats and the criminals eat each other. Some people quite simply deserve to die.

Brilliantly stated, lol! BTW, BL, do you write math books for a living, or are you really Sister Mary Elizabeth from my sixth-grade math class? :thumb:

[Venus de Smilo]

Agree.

Venus is no racist. Also, I'm not so sure that anyone is over-generalizing as much as some might be missing the actual nature of the problem. The same disease that plagues America's black underclass is the very same that plagues America's leftist elite -- white. The most politically effective and active segment of this disease at the rank and file level is white. What are we to make of that? It is foolish to think that their is something inherently servile and corrupt about blackness or American black culture proper, whatever the latter is. :question:

How did the rank and file whites get this philosophy?

[Venus de Smilo]

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz SWAT...splat.. Kabooooooooooooom!!!!!!!!!!!!! Warlady spits on both hands and blows away the smoke.

:hahaha:

I guess the rumor that you wouldn't hurt a fly is a lie, eh?

[Venus de Smilo]

One of the most intelligent posts on this subject. And the latest census reported 24% of blacks as being BELOW the poverty line, but racist tend to not want to hear this. One thing I want to note is related to your reference to the corrupt MSM. On every news channel, you are seeing the same handful of scenes repeated over and over. I am in Houston and my in-laws are from New Orleans. I have talked to them and their friends who have made it. Folks were NOT shooting at the helicopters bringing aid. Folks were shooting in the air in desperate attempts to get the attention of the helicopters. Someone admitted shooting into the air because trees blocked the view to the roof of the house. One may consider this bad judgement in a desperate situation, but there was no malace intent.

I am getting more and more info showing how the MSM has distorted this to extreme levels and treating rare incidents as commonplace by repeatedly showing the same scenes handful of scenes of looting over and over and over. I have been submitting more and more of what I have been told to the media and expressing to them their dishonesty.

I never thought that conservatism=racism. It amazes me that unquestionably conservative Rink was accused of acting like a liberal for speaking out against racism. There are those on the site who have high enough self esteem to not need to try and degrade another people in order to feel like they have worth.

Venus is a desperate racist who is reaching for anything to attack the people that she has aimed her psychotic hatred. When it comes to blacks, she doesn't know her a$$ from a hole in the ground.

Then I'm not a racist by your standard because I'm pleased to hear that now only 24% of blacks' income is below the poverty level.

Early on each media station was looping the same scenes, but they nevertheless had hours of footage, multiplied times numerous stations, as the media only broadcast a small amount of the footage they take on a particular subject. Further, the media was ordered out of the worst areas of crime and other dangers. For instance, they were only allowed in the Superdome a few minutes each a couple of times. The implication that the media broadcast all that they had and that all they had was all that was happening is a canard.

Nobody had to shoot in the air to get the attention of helicopter personnel. That's ridiculous. The personnel can see the mobs from the air. People were making big signs saying "Help us", but the idea that someone would SHOOT at a helicopter to get friendly attention is ludicrous.

The main thrust of Rink's complaints against my post had to do with whether the poor people could get out because of lack of income and her usual excuses about how the poor on government incomes can't help themselves, of which she herself is one. Many of the regulars here have tried numerous times to suggest things that she can do to help herself but she always has an excuse or an argument. She also posted a lot to WL about who was responsible for this NO fiasco, blaming it on the government as usual. Her main comment about racism was to lash out at me by calling me a racist because I wasn't having her usual diatribe about poor people being helpless. She knows damn well I'm not a racist, but it was an easy cheap shot to take that she likely thought would shut me up about her poverty=helpless theme.

I'm not going to protest the quality or motivation for my views on black racism and bad behavior just because you played the race card by calling me a racist. I just don't care. I know what I know and I see what I see and I know what's in my heart. I'll speak the truth and if you don't like it then don't read my posts. I'm not one of these white people who cowers when the term "racist' is cast. I really couldn't care less. Those here who've known me a long time know I'm not a racist, my black friends of long standing know I'm not, my family knows I'm not and I know I'm not, and that's all I need to know.

I suggest you read the article in the opening post in the thread about military ready for combat. Here is an excerpt:

""Numerous soldiers also told Army Times that they have been shot at by armed civilians in New Orleans. Spokesmen for the Joint Task Force Headquarters at the Superdome were unaware of any servicemen being wounded in the streets, although one soldier is recovering from a gunshot wound sustained during a struggle with a civilian in the dome Wednesday night.

“I never thought that at a National Guardsman I would be shot at by other Americans,” said Spc. Philip Baccus of the 527th Engineer Battalion. “And I never thought I’d have to carry a rifle when on a hurricane relief mission. This is a disgrace.”

Spc. Cliff Ferguson of the 527th Engineer Battalion pointed out that he knows there are plenty of decent people in New Orleans, but he said it is hard to stay motivated considering the circumstances. “This is making a lot of us think about not reenlisting.” Ferguson said. “You have to think about whether it is worth risking your neck for someone who will turn around and shoot at you. We didn’t come here to fight a war. We came here to help.”

Now, if that sounds like the looting and the gunfire at the NG and other aid workers stories are a load of media bull, go right ahead and keep saying so and keep defending these people. You defended the conduct of blacks when I posted about their racist acts against whites of framing them and phonying charges of racist acts against them were proved false, often eventually by their own admission, and you now defend the behavior going on in NO by claiming it's exaggerated or just not true or what was intended, blah blah blah. You rarely post about anything that doesn't have to do with race except to say happy birthday as far as I can tell, so I think the calm, reasonable voice you try to present here isn't the whole story to your claim of being here becuase you're a conservative.

[Rink]

The main thrust of Rink's complaints against my post had to do with whether the poor people could get out because of lack of income and her usual excuses about how the poor on government incomes can't help themselves, of which she herself is one. Many of the regulars here have tried numerous times to suggest things that she can do to help herself but she always has an excuse or an argument. She also posted a lot to WL about who was responsible for this NO fiasco, blaming it on the government as usual. Her main comment about racism was to lash out at me by calling me a racist because I wasn't having her usual diatribe about poor people being helpless. She knows damn well I'm not a racist, but it was an easy cheap shot to take that she likely thought would shut me up about her poverty=helpless theme.


Man are you obsessed with what I'm saying here, hit a nerve have I?

Funny more people on this forums is blaming the government of Louisiana for this mess than just Me.

And yet all you can do is focus solely and squarely on what I'm saying alone.

When you dont have the money to get a bus ticket, when you dont have the money for gas, when you absolutely have no car, vehicle of any sort, what the Hell do you do? WALK?

Those that had no means should have been bussed out of NO by the local government, the local government Dropped the ball and as OTHERS have pointed out, did NOT utilize the numerous busses that are now swamped by the floodwaters, busses that could have taken those who had no means OUT of that city.

In bold, As for ME I have been doing things to get OFF the dole woman, but I guess thats not something you'd rather pay attention to is it?

Now onto the subject of racism and racists, I'll tell you, there's Overt racists and there are subtle racists, and there's Many different stripes of racists.

You my dear are of the latter, not the former.

Now do me a favor willya? And quit pissin in my ear about how I'm on the dole and using every excuse over my 'poorness' and not helping myself when thats a damned lie ok?

I have been for almost a damn year hunting for a job and been trying damn hard to get out of this hole this dole has me in.

I am responsible not only for myself but for my mother and my primary responsibility is to take care of her and this household.

If thats also lost on ya then S-Square!!

[Venus de Smilo]

"Those that had no means should have been bussed out of NO by the local government, the local government Dropped the ball and as OTHERS have pointed out, did NOT utilize the numerous busses that are now swamped by the floodwaters, busses that could have taken those who had no means OUT of that city."

They could have taken the buses sent into their neighborhoods to get them before the storm even hit. How many times do you have to be told that, or are you going to imply, again, that I'm lying and didn't really watch and hear the discussion about the investigation into this?

To you, anybody who doesn't bow down to kiss the ass of the poor and treat you with kid gloves as though you're in a state of grace because you're poor is a racist or a classist or a somethingist. You're poor because you want to be. You're always the victim, always being picked on for being poor, always somebody down on you and the little guy.

Rink, you aren't capable of hitting my nerves. The only way you can argue is to lash out and call people names and imply they're lying.

As a name-caller, you're going to make a real fine employee when you get this job you've been talking about as long as you've been at FC, but by that time you'll be eligible for social security instead of welfare.

[Rink]

Again as Others here on this forums have stated the Mayor and govenor dropped the ball and did not use those busses that are now sitting in the flooded city.

what busses did they send into the neighborhoods? can you absolutely verify that?

And if thats the case then every other poster here thats asking the mayor why he did not use the busses to get the people out of NO are also liars and ignorant of this one fact??

I guess according to you the mayor and govenor did no wrong and did everything perfectly fine yea?

Good IDEA.


As a name-caller, you're going to make a real fine employee when you get this job you've been talking about as long as you've been at FC, but by that time you'll be eligible for social security instead of welfare.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Are you blind? I'm NOT on Welfare! woman, I'm on SSI disability, I am Damn near deaf

Do me a favor and quit picking on my being on the dole, is that too much to ask of you?? I'm not Bitching, I'm not whining, I'm not complaining, I have again been for a year trying to get a job, I'm not lazy I am not on welfare either, but I DO know what its like to be damned poor and I HATE every damned second of it I want to be able to make ends meet without squeezing my bank account dry to the bone every friggin month OK?

NO I dont always talk about it, but since you continue to kick me constantly over my being on the dole then I WILL tell you the truth.

I most certainly Hope you can comprehend what I've just posted.

If it werent for my Unocal Gas card I wouldnt be able to drive ANYWHERE.

I have to go 50+ miles in and back to get my mothers medicines, I Have been running back and forth to Portland to PHC to get the required paperwork for those people, I have been patient as they go when it comes to hunting for a job and now YOU come here and tell me I'm a lazy ass becaue I'm on the dole and that I need to go get a 'job'.

WTF do you think I Have been doing all this time? Picking my nose?

Geez get a grip and READ and comprehend for once willya!

[Venus de Smilo]

Again as Others here on this forums have stated the Mayor and govenor dropped the ball and did not use those busses that are now sitting in the flooded city.

what busses did they send into the neighborhoods? can you absolutely verify that?

And if thats the case then every other poster here thats asking the mayor why he did not use the busses to get the people out of NO are also liars and ignorant of this one fact??

There is a question about buses AFTER the flood. I'm talking about buses BEFORE the flood. Those were muni buses. I watched an extended discussion that arose from an investigation into what happened before the storm that led to the disaster after the levee broke as to why so many people were there, what and when the governor did certain things, what her options and resources were that she didn't utilize that had she utilized them and made different decisions, there would not have been delays in getting relief in and people out AFTER the flood.

Read the New orleans: Post Mortem thread if you want more. I'm not going to post it again. I've posted several times to people that buses were sent into the poor neighborhoods before the storm, but I can't make them read my posts.

[Rink]

And I too am talking about the busses before the flood also as others have also cited.

I am not alone in asking why the mayor did not use the busses to get the people out of NO.

[Warlady]

I believe it's Thomas Sowell who has cited stats that 2-3ds of black Americans are middle class or above. That was several years ago. Today it's prolly 70% who are middle class or above. It's one of the victories of the corrupt MSM that America still views blacks generally as struggling, lower-class types. It just isn't so, and hasn't been so for decades.

I still have a problem with sweeping generalizations that indict a whole class of folks for the rotten behavior of some. It's little different from liberals blaming Bush for everything wrong in America, or Europeans blaming America for everything wrong in the world. We who support Bush, and we who love America, get irked at that crap. It's probable that decent black folks get irked at being lumped with the criminal element. I think we all know that the big majority of blacks, as of whites, are law-abiding, decent people.

It is true that ignoring the race of the looters is as dumb as ignoring the Muslimness or Arabness of most modern terrorists. This can be pointed out, and discussed, without the tone that implies that blacks generally are responsible for the behavior of criminals in New Orleans, which is how it's coming across. Nobody, least of all decent black folks, likes hoodlums.

Well said Fox. You wax eloquent :grin:

[Warlady]

I saw footage of hundreds of school buses under water. That was a terrible waste of transport out of the NO before Katrina or BK. That falls on the mayor of NO who we know is a brainless twit who only knows how to bleed not lead. I think I now know the mentality of some of those residents who stayed behind. I saw footage this morning of volunteers in a boat begging a black family to come with them. Their little children were on the porch with a barking golden Cocker Spaniel. They have been there for a week without water, electricity or food and they still refused to leave. LEO are going to have to go in there and rescue those babies. I just don't understand that level of ignorance.

[Warlady]

:hahaha:

I guess the rumor that you wouldn't hurt a fly is a lie, eh?

I'm murder on the fly population in Weatherford. I am also murder on leftwing bumble bees...as is Fox. :thumb:

[Venus de Smilo]

I saw footage of hundreds of school buses under water. That was a terrible waste of transport out of the NO before Katrina or BK. That falls on the mayor of NO who we know is a brainless twit who only knows how to bleed not lead. I think I now know the mentality of some of those residents who stayed behind. I saw footage this morning of volunteers in a boat begging a black family to come with them. Their little children were on the porch with a barking golden Cocker Spaniel. They have been there for a week without water, electricity or food and they still refused to leave. LEO are going to have to go in there and rescue those babies. I just don't understand that level of ignorance.

Yep. That's what was said in the discussion about the preliminary investigation. People didn't want to leave. Some couldn't leave on a bus, of course, because of age or disability, but others just wouldn't leave. I read today that city personnel went around with a bull horn telling people to leave, but they just wouldn't. There probably were some who missed the bus and then didn't have money to get out, but it was said in the discussion that about 2/3 could have left but just wouldn't. The bottom line is that if you're told to evacuate you better make the bus and if you don't, find another way to go. If people can't take that little bit of responsibility for themselves and follow the directive, then there's just no answer. We simply can't forceably remove 300,000 people individually. They have to cooperate in securing their own safety. Anything else is ridiculous. The city and the state screwed up big time, but so did 2/3 of the victims.

[Warlady]

Yeah. I've been through a dozen hurricanes and I always go north if it's above a cat 1. It's real hairy to be in a cat 1. Even tropical storms can do a lot of damage. I watched a tornado rip through my neighbor's houses just across the street from me and blow the steel doors off of an oil tanker/barge passing by on the intercoastal water way. We've been really lucky. I've seen a lot of tornado damage on the Bolivar peninsula where our beach house is located. We stayed through Chantal which didn't turn into a hurricane until it reached about 5 miles offshore. My yellow lab female, Crystal was terrified of storms after that. Dogs bark like crazy when a tornado is approaching. It must do something to their ears ie the pressure. And we couldn't see anything because all of our windows were boarded up. My Mom was there with us and she was a vegetarian and she decided to eat brisket. It was so funny. I think she thought if she was going to die she was going down with beef in her tummy.

What do you think it is about the mentality of someone who would rather die than leave their home for a short time?

Is it stupidity? Laziness? There are a lot of questions and I think the guy who is slinging blame everywhere the most is the one who should have to answer them...the mayor of New Orleans, Nagin. Where was he? Why didn't he use those school buses to evacuate all of those people? To hell with the excuse that they didn't have toilets. I would rather piss in my pants than drown.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

Warlady:
I'm murder on the fly population in Weatherford. I am also murder on leftwing bumble bees...as is Fox. :thumb:

:moo: The Palmetto-bug cockroaches had a party on the day I moved out of Port Arthur. My inlaws in Jakarta were amazed to see me kill one with my bare hand.

[brilliantLiberal]

Brilliantly stated, lol! BTW, BL, do you write math books for a living, or are you really Sister Mary Elizabeth from my sixth-grade math class? :thumb:
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell anyone or I'll whack you with a ruler.

[Bluemoon_Rising]

How did the rank and file whites get this philosophy?

Actually, the philosophy -- the intellectualization of depravity, the effort to legitimize human nature's vilest inclinations with academic-sounding terms and historical themes in accordance with a certain monolithic paradigm -- came out of white Western Europe. Its origins go back to the not so rational or savory aspects of classical pagan thought -- the rabid egalitarianism of plebeian democracy -- or is it mobocracy? Today, we call it socialism. So I suppose the rank and file white activists of the rabid left got it from the same source as did the black underclass: their elitist white mas'ahs.

I observed quite a few white folks sitting on their hands and whining like babies too -- wondering why they "ain't got no damn hot meals or showers in days," welfare slug written all over 'em.

"Effie! Where my damn chew? Where my damn bottle? Damn flood watah stink wurse than ya pune." . . .

You're not looking at the occasional Bubba in an otherwise stream of Negro. You're looking at an historical chain of events, the cumulative results of human cruelty and injustice which immoderately landed on a certain group of Americanized people. You're looking at dependency and its offspring, corruption.

Is it their ancestors fault? Is it their fault? You're damn right it is! And it's the fault of others too. It's the fault of human nature. It's the same fault that's gradually destroying our education system, from the ground up. The political and humanity departments of our universities all across this country are spilling over with this fault -- mostly lily white. And the folks who encourage this fault -- delight in it, are every bit as much as bathing in it, swimming in it -- direct its flow and are as white as the driven snow . . . accompanied by the occasional Negro always bobbling nearby.

Most of the thugs that trashed Seattle were white. Ditto Paris. Most of those who have trashed our soldiers and their courageous efforts on behalf of Western Civilization abroad and nearby at Gitmo are lily white -- fat and stupid and ugly as sin, spewing their obscenities from the halls of Congress! . . .

The point I'm trying to make here is that the best of Western culture, just like the best of black American culture, its music and characteristic frankness, belongs to us all. There is nothing inherently black or African about immorality. . . .

. . . I'm not willing to confound the foibles of human nature with innocuous tribal and cultural traditions, those that are amicably suited to Western Civilization, and leave this nation's future and that of the black underclass in the hands of leftist pukes. -- Bluemoon

(With respect to Paris, I’m not merely talking about the actions of the Jacobinian horde of the French Revolution, I’m talking about those white Europeans who trashed Paris a number of times during the anti-economic reformation marches of the 90s and those that have occured since the turn of the Century. It seems France is a relatively peaceful place as long as no one attempts to upset its welfare system -- entrenched, widespread legalized theft -- and inconvenience it’s cozy little animals. They can be quite vicious and destructive when riled. So too can America’s rabid left -- mostly white. And the criminal nature of their insanity and that of their agenda is obvious to me. Also, lets not forget the centuries it took mostly pagan Western Europeans -- whites -- to climb out of the criminal ruins that were the entrenched institutions of the Dark Ages. Some think it was a period of Christian hegemony. Silly rabbits; tricks our for sheeple. Not so, it was a period during which Christianity’s brilliance was mostly suppressed and subverted . . . until the Reformation that is. Christianity’s golden age has yet to come. Of course, there was also the (white) bread-and-circuses mob of the Roman Empire.)

But I’m not merely talking about the essential depravity of human nature. I'm trying to get at something else as well, and max, in my opinion, misses the point. Blacks have been immoderately preyed on by injustice -- first as slaves and then as the primary political fodder of nascent American socialism. Socialism always takes down that segment of society that is most economically vulnerable first, and where blacks are concerned, their grooming began with the rabid egalitarianism of the post-Civil War Reconstruction advanced by the mindless Republican radicals. Beyond the foibles of human nature, there's nothing inherently servile or corrupt about blackness or American black culture -- what is the latter anyway exactly? but the culmination of certain historical events.

The cancer of dependency is spreading into the white population. Max mentions illegitimacy. We should all be alarmed by the sharp rise of that among whites. And that’s just one of the trends. If the tribal segment of our society that most faithfully reflects the values of Western civilization and the socio-political principles of our Founders succumbs, all is lost. Asians will be the next to start exhibiting these sort of problems unless we turn this thing around, and the only sensible way to do it is to eliminate the source of the contamination. We must confront and defeat the leftist elite, break its stranglehold on key institutions, beginning with the public education system at the elementary level and subsequently begin to directly address the generational cycle of corruption being perpetrated on the clueless.

That's precisely what the left has been doing to our children. Let's do it to theirs, beginning with the offspring of the fodder, the source of the infection. Naturally, the way we conservatives do it is to simply let liberty have her way by allowing for educational choice. The free competition of the market place will take care of the rest.

[Bluemoon_Rising]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell anyone or I'll whack you with a ruler.

Yours is a stunningly brilliant post, billiantLiberal. And you accomplished it without losing sight of reality or going off on any wild detours down blind alleys. You are well named. :thumb:

The following observations are especially astute.

If your children have not eaten in five days, and some young (and tender) punk is shooting at rescuers, how many children do you let starve before you barbeque the punk?

If you have 5,000 able bodied men among 20,000 trapped on high ground, how many days do you wait to dig a latrine? . . .

If someone dies near you, how many days should you walk around the body and let it decompose before moving it to a remote location? -- brillianLiberal

Shadow, these are the sort of observations that are mostly being made on this thread -- by Venus, by brilliantLiberal, by Warbabe, by Federal Farmer, by DesertFox, by myself and others. No doubt we will later hear stories of resolve and heroism on the part of blacks who gathered themselves together and devised an organized effort to rationally deal with their situation in isolated instances in New Orleans. But these sort of stories, if any, will be rare. And you can bet that the leaders and the participants in these instances were employed, responsible family types.

I did read about one family headed by a man who is just one generation removed from the welfare roles. He is determined that he and his family will not continue in the cycle. He's a working man and a Christian, by the government's standard, poor. His English is not perfect, but better than most of those from his generation that would rather wallow in welfare. He is refreshingly articulate in spite of his lack of refinement -- his native intelligence obvious. From the various quotes, one may know that his children’s English is near perfect, which tells me that he cares about their education and has made sacrifices on their behalf. From the pictures, one may know that his children are well-behaved, well-mannered, well-groomed and obviously well-fed. Where was this man and his family on the day before the storm hit? In Dallas! where he has already procured employment -- a welder by trade. He got his family out! more by sheer determination and ingenuity than by any access to ready cash.

Back to bedlam. Mostly what we've seen is beyond disgusting: vicious field oxon screaming obscenities at the white establishment for the latter's failure to properly whip their asses in a timely manner. With hysterical effrontery, they point at the dangling stream hanging from their puckers -- look at me! look at me! -- as they unceremoniously step over the rotting corpses of their neighbors, achieving nothing more constructive than screaming like hyenas at the passing cameras and pestering the police and relief workers with their abject uselessness.

It is not racism to express one's disgust for these people. Hell, that's being kind. What these people really need is a swift kick in the ass and a rag shoved down their filthy pie holes. At the very least, the police and relief workers deserve a little peace and quite while they attend to their duties.

[DesertFox]

if you're told to evacuate you better make the bus and if you don't, find another way to go. If people can't take that little bit of responsibility for themselves and follow the directive, then there's just no answer. This is identical to the 2000 Florida vote fiasco. People incapable of following the simplest directions, even in a life-and-death sitch, or of doing even the smallest things for themselves. The state has reduced them to infantility, and they themselves allowed it to be done. That's beyond ridiculous; it's criminal.

No need to ask whom they voted for, either, in Florida or N'Awlins.

People hang around in a disaster because they're betting nothing really bad will happen after all. It isn't just looters and human debris who do this. I grew up in Kansas City, smack in the heart of tornado alley. The 1957 Ruskin Heights tornado tore that part of the city to pieces, but one old fart sat calmly in his rocking chair through it all. The tornado literally jumped over his house; it destroyed those to either side but left him rocking peaceably.

I thought that was rather decent of the tornado, actually.

Quite apart from that, this thread's another Hall of Famer.

[Riverboat]

The 1957 Ruskin Heights tornado tore that part of the city to pieces, but one old fart sat calmly in his rocking chair through it all. The tornado literally jumped over his house; it destroyed those to either side but left him rocking peaceably.So, are you saying he voted Democrat?

;)

[Bluemoon_Rising]

LOL, Riverboat!

[Venus de Smilo]

This is identical to the 2000 Florida vote fiasco. People incapable of following the simplest directions, even in a life-and-death sitch, or of doing even the smallest things for themselves. The state has reduced them to infantility, and they themselves allowed it to be done. That's beyond ridiculous; it's criminal.

No need to ask whom they voted for, either, in Florida or N'Awlins.

People hang around in a disaster because they're betting nothing really bad will happen after all. It isn't just looters and human debris who do this. I grew up in Kansas City, smack in the heart of tornado alley. The 1957 Ruskin Heights tornado tore that part of the city to pieces, but one old fart sat calmly in his rocking chair through it all. The tornado literally jumped over his house; it destroyed those to either side but left him rocking peaceably.

I thought that was rather decent of the tornado, actually.

Quite apart from that, this thread's another Hall of Famer.

I agree, and that was stated during the discussion about the preliminary investigation into what official did what when - they just didn't believe it would be so bad. I also found out that the buses sent into the poor neighborhoods before the storm weren't allowed to take pets, so some stayed behind for that reason. But there are also still people actually hiding in their homes who just refuse to go even still.

Maybe the man in Ruskin had a pipeline to the man upstairs and knew he would be okay.

[Venus de Smilo]

Blue said: ".......He got his family out! more by sheer determination and ingenuity than by any access to ready cash."

......or banking on the government to act swiftly or efficiently. Some people CHOSE not to be part of the needy and useless.

[Bluemoon_Rising]

You'd love this guy, Venus. His story was related to me in our church's newsletter, along with pictures. We do full color! My pastor spoke with this man. He has a humble three-bedroom home in New Orleans -- mostly paid off -- but that's likely gone. He doesn't know yet. Certainly he can't go back anyway. It's not practical. Reconstruction will take months, years. Like I said, his English is not perfect, but quite respectable. It's the character and the intelligence in the expression of his thoughts with which one is really taken anyway.

For the first time in his family's sad history, because of his and his wife’s moral fortitude against all odds, his children will achieve a comfortable middle-class living. And their children's children will be doctors and lawyers and engineers. . . .

[Venus de Smilo]

That's the way it's supposed to work, Blue. That's the American heritage I know.

Three of my four grandparents came here from Norway as children, and my other grandmother was born after her parents came here from Norway. None were dirt poor and were somewhat educated, but they didn't speak English and didn't have much. It wasn't easy to establish themselves. They learned English immediately, worked like dogs, made money in engineering, and saw that all the kids were educated, had direction and worked hard. They saved and invested, didn't fritter it away on useless junk, and stayed focus on the American dream. They achieved it. I wish your friends the best of success for themselves and their children. God bless them.