Remains from all 7 astronauts have been found

[Chris]

FoxNewsChannel is reporting that remains from all seven astronauts have been found. There's nothing on their website about it yet though.

[Warlady]

Thank God.

[tacitus]

I have been watching the coverage on Fox on and off during the day. What I really had a hard time with was, 1. the helmet sitting there, 2. the patch from someone's clothing. I found it amazing that the patch fluttered down over 39 miles without so much as a scorch mark.

My prayer was that they were all dead instantly before their brains had a chance to register the horror they were about to encounter.

[Chris]

Yes. It will definitely help with the whole grieving process for the families, and closure.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It's amazing that they found all of them because of how wide an area the debris ended up covering. Good for the families.

[Chris]

[ QUOTE ]
acco said:

My prayer was that they were all dead instantly before their brains had a chance to register the horror they were about to encounter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too, but if it had a chance to register, I doubt it lasted long before they were gone, unlike what apparently happen with the Challenger crew. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Chris]

[ QUOTE ]
SouthernGal said:
It's amazing that they found all of them because of how wide an area the debris ended up covering. Good for the families.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm amazed, because of the intense heat, that they weren't cremated.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Me too, Chris. I think they were all burned though. But not too much to get DNA.

[Stetson]

Story on remains (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=1&cid=578&u=/nm/20030203/ts_nm/shuttle_remains_dc)

[Warlady]

acco, I don't understand the physics of this catastrophic event but remember how one of the hijacker's passports survived the WTC?

[tacitus]

you are right WL it is very strange.

[Chris]

Thanks Stetson. After reading your article, and the following one, I wonder how they are sure at this point that they have all seven though.


Portion of Experts Confident Astronauts Can Be ID'd (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77349,00.html)

"Forensics experts said they are confident that Columbia crew members can be genetically identified even though the space shuttle disintegrated 39 miles overhead.

Among the remains recovered are a charred torso, thigh bone and skull with front teeth, and a charred leg. An empty astronaut's helmet also could contain some genetic traces.

"DNA analysis certainly can do it if there are any cells left," said Carrie Whitcomb, director of the National Center for Forensic Science in Orlando, Fla. "If there is enough tissue to pick up, then there are lots of cells."

Nor does the DNA have to come from soft tissue.

"Identification can be made with hair and bone, too," said University of Texas physicist Manfred Fink. "Unless the body was very badly burned, there is no reason why there shouldn't be remains and it should not hinder the work."

DNA isn't the only tool available. Despite the extreme nature of the accident, simpler identification methods, such as fingerprints, can be used if the corresponding body parts survived re-entry through the atmosphere.

Dental records and X-rays from astronauts' medical files can provide matching information, making the discovery of the skull and the leg particularly valuable, they said.

But forensic experts were less certain whether laboratory methods could compensate for remains that were contaminated by the toxic fuel and chemicals used throughout the space shuttle."

[Gone_with_the_Wind]

[ QUOTE ]
Chris said:
[ QUOTE ]
acco said:

My prayer was that they were all dead instantly before their brains had a chance to register the horror they were about to encounter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too, but if it had a chance to register, I doubt it lasted long before they were gone, unlike what apparently happen with the Challenger crew. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I was watching the same report and they said the crew of seven didn't know what was coming. There was one very short, interrupted statement by the captain that he acknowledged the temperature going up on the left wing and a loss of pressure on the landing gear, but it was interrupted by a silent period, followed by static and the timing on that interruption coincided exactly with the timing of the craft falling apart. They said the crew didn't see it coming.

[Gone_with_the_Wind]

Now Fox News has corrected itself. They're saying the remains of SOME but not all astronauts have been found. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Keith J]

I know its quite gruesome to think about...at 12500 MPH, the initial breakup probably killed them instantly. There might have been a few seconds of turbulence but after loss of control, it was over.

I doubt any of the bodies will be recovered intact. There is little hope any of them had pressure containment or even oxygen after the breakup and they would have been rendered unconsicous after just a few seconds. Remember Payne Stewert? He was only at 50,000 feet. At 200k, there is almost no air pressure (~.025 PSI vs a normal 14.7 for use sea level dwellers).

[Tazeeyore]

The burns could have been somewhat minimal due to the Nomex coveralls they were wearing. But to have found parts of all seven is a miracle. May God hold them all in the palm of his hand. May he bring peace and solace to the families through his love and grace.

[Warlady]

Keith, I'm glad they didn't suffer.

Amen Taz

[The_Fireman]

I know this area well.There is little hope that they will all be found.There is litterally hundreds of square miles of some of the most dense forrest that anyone can imagine.Also,several lakes (Toledo Bend Res.and Sam Rayborn Res.)These bodies can be anywhere.Iwill not suprise me if timber crews continue to find debris and body parts for years.

[Warlady]

Yeah Fireman, I have fished both Toledo Bend and Sam Rayburn lakes for large mouth bass. Massive areas. Lake Toledo Bend is especially dense with old timber.

[RayChuang]

Given the sheer physical forces of the breakup at 12,500 mph, they'll be lucky if they can find large body parts. At that speed the only the very strongest parts survive reasonably intact--indeed, I would be very surprised if they find a large intact piece from the main shuttle engine nozzles.

Truly sad. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[DesertFox]

I'm afraid this may kill the shuttle program. I'll be surprised if we don't go into national mourning for the next 25 years.

[Warlady]

Fox oh yea of little faith. It didn't happen with Apollo and it didn't happen with Challenger. Bush has said it will not and Americans are not the type to crumble over tragedy. I hope it makes us more vigilant not less.

[DesertFox]

Apollo and Challenger happened in different times. I hope Bush is serious and can make it happen. Vee shall see.

[Beowulf]

For what it's worth, it would be good for the families to have something to bury. For some reason, it only seems fitting.

[Timberwolf]

[ QUOTE ]
DesertFox said:
Apollo and Challenger happened in different times. I hope Bush is serious and can make it happen. Vee shall see.

[/ QUOTE ]
I hate to sound morbid, but this is but one more reason why it is fortunate that GW prevailed in 2000...can you imagine what Algore would be doing to the Space Program were HE President??

To damned scary to think about.

[Rhino]

Fireman and Ray are correct. The heat on re-entry is caused by the speed of the shuttle through the atmosphere, not by where it is located. That kind of speed is allowable only due to the aerodynamics of the shuttle itself when in normal flight. When the shuttle departed controlled flight and broke up, the resulting debris would have decelerated dramatically within seconds, so the heat would have been relatively short lived in many places. Also, having once been a volunteer fireman in my younger years (100 or so years ago), I can tell you that is quite common to find burnt books and magazines in burned out building that have almost all of the interior pages completely intact. Without oxygen being able to reach a combustible material, it can sometimes withstand tremendous fires remaining almost completely intact. The same deceleration that reduced the time of exposure to heat is also well known in aviation circles to wreak havoc on human bodies. At high speed, these so-called "deceleration injuries" quite often tear apart human bodies. Deceleration injuries of a much lesser nature are often suffered by pilots who eject from jet aircraft at high speeds, but the speeds in the shuttle incident were multitudes higher than what is considered "high speed" for jet aircraft. A sad but true fact that is commonly known in aerospace accident investigations. There are more dynamics involved, but I won't go into them because it can get pretty gory.

[Chris]

So, are you saying that they were probably ripped apart rather than burned to death? If so, would they have been knocked out first from the craft losing pressure before it happened do you think?

[Rhino]

No, depressurization does not usually "knock you out". The lack of oxygen as a result can make you lose consciousness, but not instantly. With a high enough pressure differential, some body parts such as lungs could actually explode, as can happen with deep sea divers who do not exhale while ascending from great depths. I believe the movie "Men of Honor" referred to that as "Boyle's Law". The more they got into the atmosphere though, the less the chances are that that happened. They probably died from deceleration injuries when the spacecraft broke apart. At that speed in most instances, I would imagine that would have been almost instantly. But as I said, there are other dynamics involved that can affect that, even to include such things as the brains' psychological reactions to such situations. That can be not unlike when accident victims brains can blank out all memory of the accident itself, or when some people fire a firearm in self defense within a enclosed area, they can have no memory of hearing the gunshot and their ears do not ring as you would expect. The brain can do some pretty weird things in extreme situations. They used to do rapid decompressions to us in the Air Force altitude chambers, and they taught some pretty detailed dynamics sometimes. It gets pretty complicated and they didn't teach all of it to us Air Force crewmembers, but what they did teach us can get pretty involved. All in all though, I doubt they suffered more than an instant, if even that.

[Warlady]

Rhino that's comforting to know. I know if I were one of the family members that would be a relief.

[Chris]

Thanks Rhino. I never knew there was such a things as deceleration injuries, nevermind that they could tear you apart. I thought it was the explosion that did it.

I too am glad that it was pretty quick for them. And, I do understand what you mean about the brain blocking things out. My older son was in a car accident once where he had major head trauma, it's been about 15 years now and he still doesn't remember a thing about it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[ QUOTE ]
Warlady said:
acco, I don't understand the physics of this catastrophic event but remember how one of the hijacker's passports survived the WTC?

[/ QUOTE ]

They found the body of a charged stewardess. Forensic testing showed that the terrorists bound her and slit her throat.

With respect to the families of the crew. It is good that they have a body. You know that the person is there as opposed to having no body.