In Search of Mr. Right: Why are there no good men left?

[SunnyBrook]

In Search of Mr. Right (http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/int2002-12-18.htm)

[ QUOTE ]
Odds are that the pulled-together young woman you encounter riding up in the elevator, emerging from the gym, or riding the subway wearing sleek professional attire but no wedding ring is struggling to meet someone to spend her life with. The thirty-something woman of today is three times more likely to be single than her counterpart of the 1970s. Indeed, both women and men—particularly those with high levels of education—are staying single far longer into their adult years than in previous eras. For both groups this delayed search for a spouse is a deliberate choice, but the effect of that delay on the two sexes is dramatically different.

For men, the change in timing is merely an incidental matter with few repercussions. For women, however, the delay makes the search more difficult, fraught with anxiety, and shadowed by the possibility of ultimate failure...

...In a new book, Why There Are No Good Men Left: The Romantic Plight of the New Single Woman, the social historian Barbara Dafoe Whitehead considers the challenges facing the contemporary single woman in her search for a mate, and argues that the prevailing courtship system must be transformed...

...What she found was that at the time in their lives when they feel ready for a partner, young women are at a loss as to how to find one. Contemporary young women, she points out, have been raised to seek fulfilling careers rather than husbands. And upon college graduation they want to spend time out on their own, making their mark on the world, rather than pairing off right away and exchanging their independence for family life.

The problem, she explains, is that when these women reach their late twenties or thirties and at last become interested in settling down, the large pool of eligible young men to which they had access in college—with backgrounds and ambitions similar to their own—has disappeared. A woman at this stage in her life is likely to be trapped in a somewhat narrow routine that includes work, working-out, and socializing with a circle of friends. Her odds of encountering her future spouse in these limited spheres are extremely low.

The difficulties of the woman no longer fresh out of college are compounded by the fact that, as time passes, she is increasingly faced with competition from younger women. And if her life goals include not just marriage but children as well, then she must keep in mind that her time frame is limited. Many women in this situation begin to feel a growing sense of panic, as they fear that their chances for the life they envisioned for themselves are slipping away...



[/ QUOTE ]

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[Suzie]

This would be a good he said she said post.

[Stetson]

women just don't know how to set their judgment like men do..

"A 10 at 2 & 2 at 10" comes to mind......LOL

[DesertFox]

Sorta hard to feel sorry for such women. They deliberately ignored their biological urgings to have kids. They trusted NOW rather than their own judgment. Now no one's interested in them, and it isn't as though this issue hasn't been talked about all this time because it has been talked about.

But then, it's also undeniable that all the best men are in their forties and fifties, anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[DoctorDoom]

At the age range indicated, men become accustomed to the great benefits of baching it. And, with the taming of the hormonal drives of the teens and early 20s, they are less likely to allow Mister Happy to do their thinking. Thus, they are quite content with living the free and easy lifestyle of the unattached.

Speaking from experience, the single life is mah-velous.

[RayChuang]

[ QUOTE ]
DesertFox said:
They trusted NOW rather than their own judgment.

[/ QUOTE ]

BINGO.

The problem with women nowadays is that they're finding out that the influence of NOW has effectively devestated relationships between genders. Why would men want to marry women when men know the courts will be stacked against them in spousal abuse and divorce cases? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon44.gif

[Chris]

[ QUOTE ]
A woman at this stage in her life is likely to be trapped in a somewhat narrow routine that includes work, working-out, and socializing with a circle of friends. Her odds of encountering her future spouse in these limited spheres are extremely low.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not the limited spheres, it's the cubby hole she expects to fit a husband into. It would be hard at any age, and in any sphere to find a husband that fits into your schedule and be happy about it.

[Wyatt_Junker]

A Good Man is Hard to Find. Or so said Flannery O'Conner, in her famous short story about a car breaking down only to have your knight in shining Edsel gunjack you and then bury you.

Maybe all these washed ups should enroll in reality TV.

Aging Flesh Farms.

Lonely Plywood Conversations.

Good Morning Divorced America.

Maybe they could save themselves the emotional cost of rejection and loss and just make up an imaginary friend. Either that or begin a new drug habit until you lose yourself, and feel like a frog in the bottom of a laundry basket, flipping around and not caring.

They could always scam fer meat at Barns-N-Ignoble, sit in a corner somewhere with a latte, and peer just over the top of an upside down book on gardening, trying to appear intrested while spying on the quiet, cerebral crowd.

Or, just go to Church.

Or maybe just shut up.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

http://mysmilies.com/cwmb/default/old.gif <font color="blue">Actually, there are plenty of good men left. These desperate (?) females need to understand that there is only one guy who looks like Matt Damon, &amp; the odds of getting him are slim. Get over it. Move on. Settle for someöne else.</font>

[JMK444]

OK, I'll offer my usual off-beat view. I think one of the reasons that women perceive that "A good man is hard to find," is because they ARE.

The "sexual revolution" has been a disaster for the American family and women get most of the blame for wanting "fun without risk," but it also liberated men, in a very self-centered and ugly way. It freed men to be pigs, to chase after multiple women and expect the onus be put on the woman. You often hear, "It's up to her to take birth control if she don't want kids."

How selfish is that?

Look around, there are a lot more decent women out there than there are decent men...far more one-man women, than one-woman men. The "sexual revolution" has been a disaster on a number of levels.

My best regards,
JMK

[dajoga]

[ QUOTE ]
The "sexual revolution" has been a disaster for the American family

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but also we've emasculated boys for years and they never become real men. Our society produces "feminized" men (not to be confused with effeminate men). We put them on ritalin to make them act like girls; "contempory feminism has prided itself in turning honorable acts of chivalry into dishonorable acts of chauvinism." That men should care for women is considered sexist.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, these sped dating services already exist and most 'cool' people wouldnt touch them, from what I hear (not being cool) because the aprticipants are percieved as desparate.

But the problem is still mostly a matter of these young professional women making poor choices. If they choose to sacrifice their interest in having a family so that they can pursue their careers instead, then who is to blame for that? Why do we have to re-engineer yet another facet of our society to accomodate short-sighted people?

Besides, why cant they go to church and attend any average Bible study group or class? When I attended night classes, there were always several single women in their thirties and similarly aged men brushing up on their technical skills.

I guess the victimization industry is about to depart on a new crusade to patchup and amend more unforseen consequences of a narcicistic pop culture.

Cant wait to see what else tumbles out of this load.

[JMK444]

Yes, the feminization of our culture is something else again.

It's developed out of the 60's Liberal "feel good" culture. According to that mantra, "Competition and confrontation are always "bad," while cooperation, conciliation and compromise are always"good." "

NOT ALWAYS!

You can't avoid confrontation with an attacker and projecting weakness or "non-confrontation" (the same thing to bullies) to a predator only invites more of the same.

A morality that eschews confrontation and competition and enshrines cooperation and conciliation is one that creates ready made victims. The Left made great inroads in the media and in education from the 1950s on and these are just a few of the pernicious myths they've left behind like landmines.

My best regards,
JMK

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Agreed, JMK, so when are we removing those land mines?

[JMK444]

I agree that many young women "make poor choices," in terms of putting off family, sometimes until it's too late, BUT so do many men make "poor choices," in terms of wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

Both men and women have been told, "You can have it all." Of course, "having it all" means different things to men and women. Having it all to many women means having a great career and a stable home and family, while to many guys, "having it all" means getting to have all the meaningless sex you want, without any repercussions. Both are unrealistic demands.

For women, they need to know that a good career requires dedication (often over 60 hours/week in dedication) and that's time taken away from home and family. Men need to realize that there's no such thing as meaningless sex...it means something to her, I guarantee it. You can't have tons of "casual relationships" and maintain your autonomy and freedom.

In those "casual relationships" the women is usualy trading sex for commitment, while the guy is trading "good times" (movies, dinners, etc) for sex...both are buying a pig in a poke.

It's a recipe for disaster.

My best regards,
JMK

[JMK444]

Agreed, JMK, so when are we removing those land mines? (rglencheek)

Your guess is as good as mine.

My best reagrds,
JMK

[dajoga]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, the feminization of our culture is something else again.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm re-reading an excellent book on raising boys to be real men: Raising a Modern-Day Knight, A Father's Role in Guiding His Son to Authentic Manhood, by Robert Lewis. Here's his insight on "Why there are no good men left."

[ QUOTE ]
You need to know, Dad, that your son and thousands like him are presently being stripped of their maleness by a modern, secular, feminist culture. Over the last few decades, this culture has steadily and relentlessly undermined healthy notions of what it means to be a man. Once-noble images of masculinity have now been replaced by images of men behaving badly...or incompetently...or both. Manhood is no longer a unique calling; it's now seen more as a problem to be overcome.

[/ QUOTE ]

He also includes the following poem by a young man asking "What is a Man?"

[ QUOTE ]
What is a man?
Is he someone who is strong and tall,
Or is taut and talented as he plays ball?
Is he someone who is hardened and rough,
Who smokes and drinks and swears enough?
Is he someone who chases women hard,
With a quest to conquer, but never dropping his guard?
Is he someone with a good business mind,
Who gets ahead of the others with his nose to the grind?
Or is he someone who tries his best,
Not really caring about any of the rest?
What is a man? Does anyone know?
TELL ME!
Who is the prototype? To whom shall I go?

[/ QUOTE ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

A man is an adult male who word is concrete; who does what he says he will do and keeps his oaths and commitments.

Though the same is true for a woman, the ways in which men are expected to maintain their responsibilities differes. A man is supposed to know how to defend himself and his family, earn his pay to provide for them and to lead when needed.

That is what it is to be a man and it requires that he know his way in the world. Till then he is just a grown boy.

[dajoga]

Good points rg--

In Lewis' book I mentioned he identifies four characteristics of a real man:

1-he rejects passivity
2-he accepts responsibility
3-he lead courageously
4-he expects the greater reward...God's reward

He also discusses the issue of how a boy learns to be a man--and that's where the role of a father is vital. Boys only learn to be men from men, ideally their fathers. As our feminist oriented society becomes more and more a matriarchy, the less likely our boys will become men and we will find fewer and fewer "good men."

At the risk of being labeled a racist, just look at what's happening in the black community. Who controls most of the money and authority there? The women. And yet the black community bemoans the lot of their young males; these guys have little if any chance at becoming real men.

[JMK444]

Sounds like a great book dgauw!

Look at our schools; today any aggression at all is seen as anti-social behavior and competition is eschewed in favor of "cooperation" in all the kid's endeavors. "Winning and "losing" are often seen as anachronisms of another age.

The thing I appreciate most, looking back on my Catholic school education, was the strict discipline and the best attribute my Dad did his best to pass on was humility.

This society looks down on humility...and I did too as a youngster, but it's the foundation of every other virtue and the thing that governs a man's character. At its core, humility is acknowledging how much bigger than us the world is and realizing that there are some things in life that are simply more important than what's best for me.

My best regards,
JMK

[blakjaque shelac]

Many interesting points:

Among thirty-something singles, there certainly are many good men. Just as there are good women. But in both camps you have the good, the bad, and the ugly. I mean, single at 35 means either (a) you're divorced; (b) you were so anti-commitment that you've stayed single; (c) you were never that great a catch to begin with.

Group C, there are group C's in both genders. Problem is, modern media have convinced everyone that they should have teh best. When a hundred million women heard "Why settle when I can have the best" on Oprah, few realized this couldn't possibly be true for all of them. In my recently-ended single-and-dating-in-mid-life days, I met a number of Group C's who had watched Oprah. The forcefulness with which they proclaimed their deserving of a top-quality man was generally inversely proportional to the obvious non-likelihood of them snagging one.

Group B - be serious, a guy or a girl that reaches their late thirties without a family, without ever being married, unless there's some extenuating circumstances or they belong to Group C, clearly has personal priorities incompatible with suddenly becoming a model of domesticity. Most guys in this situation know themselves and are comfortable with themselves. A few women are, but most aren't. But having spent the previous decade and a half developing fiercely independent characters, they're now very unattractive as partners in a relationship based on inter-dependence. I also met many of these. The more sophisticated ones made such an issue out of their new found beleif in ladies&amp;gentlemen that they wore it like a dress that doesn't fit. The less hip were just sad - on a date, supposedly to pair up with a man, completely oblivious to the anti-male and anti-marriage content of their conversation. I had women talk to me on first dates about the evil of upper-management males and the glass ceiling, or how proud they were of their girlfriend for breaking up her family through divorce because "he didn't respect her enough and it's more important for a child to learn respect for women than to have a father". Obviously there was no second date for these, and they will lament that I was one of the bad ones who just wanted a good time.

Group A - The very best ones, in both genders - the family-friendly, responsible, attractive ones capable of maintaining a healthy relationship, are married. At 35, you have to hope to find one of these who was divorced from a wing-nut. We all make mistakes. I was lucky enough to happen upon a jewel of a woman who had been divorced two years from a serial-cheater. Sweet, gentle, adventurous, fit, sensible, sensuous, fun, smart, active, feminine, lady-like, conversationalist, physically active, reasonable, realistic, trustworthy, committed....the list goes on. But I had to wade through alot of C's and B's to find her.

[DoctorDoom]

<center>http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/2000/10_Oct/1000_mn_cartoon.jpg (http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/2000/10_Oct/1000cart.htm)</center>

[DoctorDoom]

<center>http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/2000/11_Nov/1100_mn_cartoon.gif (http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/2000/11_Nov/1100cart.htm)

http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/past_images/601cart.gif (http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/2001/june%202001/601cart.htm)

http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/past_images/1201cart.gif (http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/2001/dec%202001/1201cart.htm)</center>

[dajoga]

[ QUOTE ]
A few women are, but most aren't. But having spent the previous decade and a half developing fiercely independent characters, they're now very unattractive as partners in a relationship based on inter-dependence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting point--it echos what John Eldredge says in his book, Wild at Heart, Discovering the Secret of a Man's soul:
The world kills a woman's heart when it tells her to be tough, efficient, and independent.

Doom--great cartoons, right on the money

[ducktapehero]

I don't think there are more good women than men today. The problem(my opinion) is that for the last couple of decades women have been demanding men who are overly sensitive and caring. Now they are realizing that doing that makes the men less attarctive to them. They want it both ways. They want a nice sensitive man who will cry with them and all that but also they want a man who acts like a "real" man. Sorry, men are either one way or the other(for the most part). I was raised "old school" in my family and as such my wife sometimes accuses me of being insensitive and not listening to her but even she has admitted she likes me this way instead of some wimpy sensitive guy who is in touch with his feminine side.So I'll keep burping and farting and drinking beer and for the most part keeping my wife a very happy woman.

[dajoga]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem(my opinion) is that for the last couple of decades women have been demanding men who are overly sensitive and caring. Now they are realizing that doing that makes the men less attarctive to them. They want it both ways. They want a nice sensitive man who will cry with them and all that but also they want a man who acts like a "real" man.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what C.S. Lewis said of modernists, they "castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful."

It's interesting that most women when they were little girls never dreamed of marrying a "sensitive man" but a Prince charming; the man of their dreams was not a "nice guy" but a dashing hero.

Same with us guys; who of us wanted to grow up to be a "nice guy?" We were always aggressive, exploring, on the move, attacking the bad guys.

Who makes movies like Braveheart, Saving Private Ryan, Gladiator etc. best-selling? Men or women? John Eldredge said, "...the movies that a man loves reveal what his heart longs for, what is set inside him from the day of his birth. Like it or not, there is something fierce in the heart of every man....adventure is written into the heart of a man." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon16.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[ QUOTE ]
But then, it's also undeniable that all the best men are in their forties and fifties, anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="purple">I beg to differ a little with you, DesertFox. My husband is a wonderful man, and he's not quite forty yet. He also has every bit of his masculinity intact, and I love him for it. I could never have married a man I didn't respect, and I could never respect a man who would allow me to dominate him. I submit to him in the biblical sense, which is very un-PC (ask me if I care /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif ). He loves me in the biblical sense (and every other sense too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ).

I have never been "career-driven". When I've worked it was because I had to (to support myself and then to supplement my husband's income), and I chose to enjoy working because it always made life a little easier. I always wanted to get married and have a family, and I waited on God for this to happen. I told him, "I'll be happy if you want me to stay single but I sure would like to share my life with someone of your choosing." He answered that prayer about 8 years ago and I've been thanking Him ever since.</font> /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif

[jag]

A woman in her late 20's and early 30's in my opinion is no longer a young woman. All the good men went to the real young women, and they shaped them into the man the others are whining about not having out there in the "selection pool". It's a catch-22.

[ducktapehero]

My wife has a hell of a husband. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon127.gif

[DoctorDoom]

From Doom's Cynical Dictionary:

bachelor

noun: a man who didn't make the same mistake once

[Timberwolf]

[ QUOTE ]
DoctorDoom said:
From Doom's Cynical Dictionary:

bachelor

noun: a man who didn't make the same mistake once

[/ QUOTE ]
Ooooooh Doc, yer gonna burn fer dat one!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jk.gif

[DesertFox]

Tigerlily, you left off the most important part of that sentence -- the smilie face indicating facetiousness.