Judge Rejects First Amendment Claim by Church

[Suzie]

Judge Rejects First Amendment Claim by Church





Feb. 19
— BOSTON (Reuters) - A judge on Wednesday rejected an attempt by the Archdiocese of Boston to use the First Amendment to shield it from more than 400 lawsuits claiming sexual abuse by priests.

Suffolk County Superior Court Judge Constance Sweeney said in the ruling that the clergy sex abuse lawsuits can continue. The ruling also clears the way for more intense settlement talks between lawyers for the victims and the archdiocese.

The Boston Archdiocese, home to about 2.1 million Catholics, argued that the separation of church and state prevented civil courts from making judgments on
MORE HERE (http://www.abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20030219_589.html)

[DesertFox]

The stupid Catholic Church, by not dealing with this issue right along, now faces total ruin in the form of lawsuits.

[Charles]

God IS in control and the catholics aren't in touch.

[Suzie]

Yes, they surely brought this on themselves through covering up and excusing the inexcusable. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[pja]

[ QUOTE ]
The Boston Archdiocese, home to about 2.1 million Catholics, argued that the separation of church and state prevented civil courts from making judgments on how it supervised priests.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems the real problem was that the Church wasn't supervising their so called priests. Someone tell me, if a priest went out and robbed a 7/11 would they hide him out and keep the stolen loot?

The best thing that Catholics could do is to reject this church and never put another penny in the collection plate. Money is the only thing this kind of church understands and the members need to make a statement.

Pat (aka pja)

[DesertFox]

Hate to say it, but you're right on the money, pj. They wouldn't tolerate a priest arsonist, what the HELL were they thinking by tolerating priest rapists? This just boggles the hell outta my mind. The bastards ruined the lives of how many innocents with their perversions? How could anyone who knew look himself in the mirror?

The church itself, I'm afraid, became corrupted.

[Beowulf]

Easy on us Catholics. Yes, the church did bring this on itself, the leadership of it, that is. As with any other religion, it is the parishoner that pays the church's bills by giving a few dollars a week.
Somehow though, I don't believe for one minute that everyone who filed a lawsuit claiming sexual abuse has a legitimate case. You all know as well as I do, with the large number of valid claims, it's easy for a person or two to falsely cash in. In fact, I have an Uncle who is a priest. It's gotten to the point where he can't even do his job on a daily basis for fear someone will take something the wrong way. With the scar now worn by the church, do you really think he would have a chance?

Lastly, when Cardinal Law stepped down, the fire seemed to settle down. As with so many problems in this country, new leadership is needed.

Oh yeah, I served God's altar for 5 years and never ONCE did I have a problem with the man I addressed as "Father."

[Charles]

Pat said,
[ QUOTE ]
The best thing that Catholics could do is to reject this church and never put another penny in the collection plate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I respectfully disagree Pat.

The tithe is an ordinance that the believer should adhere to.

The members here should "put on the whole armor of god",stand their ground, and demand the resignation of the offenders.

IMHO

[pja]

[ QUOTE ]
Charles said:
Pat said,
[ QUOTE ]
The best thing that Catholics could do is to reject this church and never put another penny in the collection plate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I respectfully disagree Pat.

The tithe is an ordinance that the believer should adhere to.

The members here should "put on the whole armor of god",stand their ground, and demand the resignation of the offenders.

IMHO

[/ QUOTE ]

This little dirty problem is decades old. I think the members are just a tad late in putting on that armor. My feelings are the same for any church who allows child molesters to go unpunished, not just the Catholics.

If the church is so corrupt that it can't control its priests then it might be too corrupt to be a proper steward of God's tithes. I really don’t think God intends his tithes to support child molesters, do you?

Pat (aka pja)

[Charles]

Pat said,
[ QUOTE ]
If the church is so corrupt that it can't control its priests then it might be too corrupt to be a proper steward of God's tithes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I WHOLE HEARTEDLY agree.

My point is that to withhold tithes would be against God's will.(2 wrongs don't make a right)

If the members are willing to blindly follow a corrupt leadership, then they are as guilty as the obstructors at best, and as guilty as the offenders at least.(did that come out right?)

I digress.

The membership should resolve to do God's will, Per the scriptures they hold to be holy, and fight within the church to right the wrong committed.

The RCC has more money than the insurance co.'s and for the members to withhold their tithe would be preventing themselves a blessing. (this, of course is assuming of an honest and moral believer.)

[pja]

[ QUOTE ]
Beowulf said:
Easy on us Catholics. Yes, the church did bring this on itself, the leadership of it, that is. As with any other religion, it is the parishoner that pays the church's bills by giving a few dollars a week.
Somehow though, I don't believe for one minute that everyone who filed a lawsuit claiming sexual abuse has a legitimate case. You all know as well as I do, with the large number of valid claims, it's easy for a person or two to falsely cash in. In fact, I have an Uncle who is a priest. It's gotten to the point where he can't even do his job on a daily basis for fear someone will take something the wrong way. With the scar now worn by the church, do you really think he would have a chance?

Lastly, when Cardinal Law stepped down, the fire seemed to settle down. As with so many problems in this country, new leadership is needed.

Oh yeah, I served God's altar for 5 years and never ONCE did I have a problem with the man I addressed as "Father."

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry, I react the same way for corruption in other churches.

Sure, the parishioners pay, but are you trying to tell me that they should continue to pay when the leadership has allowed them to be victimized by pervert priests? Should they continue to pay for the privilege of having their tithes to God used to support people who abuse their children? Parishioners should pay to preserve a corrupt leadership? Maybe we need to go back to some kind of ritualistic child sacrifice? Yes, that was mean of me, too.

I am sure their are bogus claims, but every one of these claims needs to be addressed in a court of law since the Church failed to deal with the problem. Every innocent child who was harmed needs some kind of validation. Every wrongly accused priest needs to have his name cleared in a court of law. And every guilty priest needs to be locked away in a serious prison. Anything less is a failure of our society to protect itself, and the innocent, and punish the guilty. The Catholic Church has blatantly refused to deal with the problem. They have no right to claim jurisdiction over these criminal priests any longer.

You do realize that this kind of thing is one of the worst problems with Islam? Islam considers the religious courts to be above the secular courts and when the Islamic court is corrupted you end up with women being stoned for adultery but never a man being stoned for adultery. Why is it that adultery is only committed by women?? Because the system is corrupted and there are no checks on the corruption. Our God given rights are to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and the right to trial under law, not under religious or political whims. (Man, someone is going to kick me for that thought…)

Pat (aka pja)

[Charles]

[ QUOTE ]
but every one of these claims needs to be addressed in a court of law since the Church failed to deal with the problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too Pat.

I've no stomach or patience with a child molester and I'm for the death penalty for the convicted.

"No one is so blind as he who JUST WON'T see!"

[MaximumSam]

Hopefully, the Church's leadership is better with money, and they are shifting things around to prevent access from these lawsuits.

[pja]

[ QUOTE ]
Charles said:
Pat said,
[ QUOTE ]
If the church is so corrupt that it can't control its priests then it might be too corrupt to be a proper steward of God's tithes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I WHOLE HEARTEDLY agree.

My point is that to withhold tithes would be against God's will.(2 wrongs don't make a right)

[/ QUOTE ]

But giving God's tithes to support evil is wrong, too, don't you think? I keep reading this as you think it is OK to spend God's money supporting evil??


[ QUOTE ]
Charles said:

If the members are willing to blindly follow a corrupt leadership, then they are as guilty as the obstructors at best, and as guilty as the offenders at least.(did that come out right?)

I digress.

The membership should resolve to do God's will, Per the scriptures they hold to be holy, and fight within the church to right the wrong committed.

The RCC has more money than the insurance co.'s and for the members to withhold their tithe would be preventing themselves a blessing. (this, of course is assuming of an honest and moral believer.)


[/ QUOTE ]

The membership has allowed this to continue for decades and the leadership has covered this up for decades, Charles. Time for the secular court to zap them good. I think you would also want the innocent priests to be publicly cleared of wrong doing, too. Every priest is under this cloud and even ministers of other religions are suffering because of the taint spilling over from the neglect, at the highest levels, of the Catholic church.

Gosh, I can't see supporting perverts as a way to be a receiver of God's blessings. Is there a Bible verse somewhere telling me to give God's tithes to the devil?

Pat (aka pja)

[Charles]

They're not Sam.

In a catholic church, there is no "business meeting and the simplton followers have no say in what's done with the money.

I'm up later than normal tonight as a result of my chuch's business meeting.

Full disclosure, recipts vs. expenditures are disclosed to EVERY MEMBER.

This is as it should be.

[pja]

[ QUOTE ]
MaximumSam said:
Hopefully, the Church's leadership is better with money, and they are shifting things around to prevent access from these lawsuits.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, Sam, I think all would be well if the Church just didn't let perverts have access to kids.

Pat (aka pja)

[MaximumSam]

Sorry, but I think anyone held liable here should be made personally liable. If Cardinal Law was acting negligently, then make Cardinal Law pay the damages. I don't see why individual churches and parishioners who has nothing to do with this should be forced to pay for it. Whatever you want to call the church, it's not a business. I hope the Church's lawyers are working diligently into setting up a good protective scheme, possibly dissolving the Boston archdiocese and separating it into something else.

[Charles]

Pat said,
[ QUOTE ]
Gosh, I can't see supporting perverts as a way to be a receiver of God's blessings.

[/ QUOTE ]

ME NEITHER PAT.

Please don't get mad at me. I'm NOT your adversary here.

If this sort of abomination were happening in MY church, I'd move heaven and earth to expose the perpetrators, even if others within the church got mad at me. So be it if the truth is exposed.

But with my tithes were going into the church, I would have a vested interest in the affairs thereof.

I've agreed that the perpetrators are scum. Their supporters are scum as well. But if I were catholic, I'd be MAD AS HELL at what was being done with my money!

I'd continue giving the money and oust the BASTARDS that were misusing it.

[pja]

[ QUOTE ]
MaximumSam said:
Sorry, but I think anyone held liable here should be made personally liable. If Cardinal Law was acting negligently, then make Cardinal Law pay the damages. I don't see why individual churches and parishioners who has nothing to do with this should be forced to pay for it. Whatever you want to call the church, it's not a business. I hope the Church's lawyers are working diligently into setting up a good protective scheme, possibly dissolving the Boston archdiocese and separating it into something else.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure individuals are named on the law suit papers, too. Cardinal Law isn't the top of the corruption. I don't recall that the Pope did much serious punishing of the leadership. What really needs to be done is to get criminal about this and include some serious jail time for offenders and those who covered up for them.

Pat (aka pja)

[MaximumSam]

I don't think the Pope has any responsibility, and besides, we aren't going to arrest the Pope.

[pja]

[ QUOTE ]
Charles said:
Pat said,
[ QUOTE ]
Gosh, I can't see supporting perverts as a way to be a receiver of God's blessings.

[/ QUOTE ]

ME NEITHER PAT.

Please don't get mad at me. I'm NOT your adversary here.

If this sort of abomination were happening in MY church, I'd move heaven and earth to expose the perpetrators, even if others within the church got mad at me. So be it if the truth is exposed.

But with my tithes were going into the church, I would have a vested interest in the affairs thereof.

I've agreed that the perpetrators are scum. Their supporters are scum as well. But if I were catholic, I'd be MAD AS HELL at what was being done with my money!

I'd continue giving the money and oust the BASTARDS that were misusing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Charles, I would never be mad at you. I am mad at the topic. Something went very wrong with the Catholic church in certain places. The violators and their protectors weren't ousted by the congrigations or higher leadership. Time to find a new church, IMHO. Those who knew about the corruption did nothing. Now folks know and still nothing is being done. The only action the congrigation seems to have is to withhold God's tithes until the problem is corrected.

We are not going to agree on this. I, too, would work to remove the violators any way I could, but I sure wouldn't continue to support them with money intended for God's agenda. That is two wrongs in my book.

God bless you, Charles. Wish I had words to make you see my point clearly.

Pat (aka pja)

[Charles]

Pat said,
[ QUOTE ]
Time to find a new church, IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think you found the words. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I'm not so narrow to suggest that there will be no catholics in heaven, but I think it will be few in comparison to the total number of members. Although, after tonights business meeting, the same may apply to Missionary Baptists. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon127.gif

[PeteS_in_CA]

[ QUOTE ]
The Boston Archdiocese, home to about 2.1 million Catholics, argued that the separation of church and state prevented civil courts from making judgments ...

[/ QUOTE ]
Despiccable!

[Beowulf]

I do agree. If Cardinal Law is liable, and I think he is, then he should be the one who pays.

My attending mass each week does NOT mean I condone what these priests have done. It is my church, my faith and I will practice it. At the same time, I too want those who molest to be held accountable.

As I said before, new leadership is needed and that is happening. The "sins of the fathers" will never be forgot but they can be overcome.