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Naturalized-Texan
12-07-2003, 07:21 PM
Election Fraud 2000

Introduction

Al Gore used election fraud and the liberal Florida Supreme Court in his attempt to steal an election that he could never have won legitimately at the ballot box. In the following essay you will find a few examples of the massive Democrat election fraud during and after Election Day 2000. These examples were all recorded contemporaneously. Information that I learned after the fact is written in italics.

Fraud on Election Day

1) In Democrat South Florida, certified Republican poll watchers were prevented from entering polling places.

2) Again in Democrat South Florida, legally registered Republican voters were denied their right to vote with no reason. It was learned later that most of those Republican voters were black and Democrat election officials denied them the right to vote because their voter registration cards were improper – they contained the word “Republican” in the party registration field.

3) In Miami-Dade, an analysis published the week before Christmas 2000 by the liberal Miami Herald showed that as many as 600 dead people voted in the election. The way that happened was that Democrats transported busloads of AlGore voters from precinct to precinct to vote in place of dead people still on the voter rolls. (An aside: Miami-Dade has a long and well-deserved record for Democrat election fraud. For political reasons the county attorney repeatedly refused to investigate and prosecute the perpetrators of that fraud. Her name was Janet Reno. Sound familiar?)

4) In all of Florida about 5,000 convicted felons illegally voted in the election. It's a sure bet that the vast majority of those felons voted for AlGore.

5) Before the polls even closed, the AlGore campaign hired a telemarketing firm to call 2,500 Democrat voters in Palm Beach County to tell them to call their congressman (Bob Wexler) and pretend that they were confused by the butterfly ballot and feared that they had voted for Pat Buchanan.

6) The liberal media were so anxious for AlGore to be the winner that they declared Florida for Gore before the Florida polls even closed. That had the effect of discouraging thousands, if not hundreds-of-thousands, of Republican voters nationwide to stay at home rather than vote for Bush. Of course, we'll never know how many voters were discouraged from voting, but it's certainly possible that Bush would have received enough additional votes that he would have had a majority in the popular vote and would have won the electoral vote without needing Florida.

Democrat strategist, Bob Beckel, estimated that if the networks had not declared Florida for AlGore before the polls closed in the Florida Panhandle, Bush would have picked up an additional 8,000 votes (others estimated that Bush lost between 10,000 and 11,500 votes in Florida because of the early call). Bush would have won Florida by at least 9,700 votes on Election Day. (Source: Bill Sammon, At Any Cost)

Before you ask: Yes, that was the same Bob Beckel who paid private investigators to dig up dirt on Bush Electors for the purpose of trying to blackmail them into switching their Electoral Votes to AlGore.


Fraud after Election Day

1) According to several sources, including the manufacturer of the Votomatic voting machine used in several Democrat counties in Florida, it is impossible to produce a dimpled or "pregnant" chad with the stylus on a single ballot using the Votomatic. According to those same sources, the only way to produce a dimpled or "pregnant" chad on a ballot is to stack 5 or more ballots on top of each other and press down very hard with the Votomatic stylus.

After the mandatory machine recount, the so-called undervotes, actually ballots where the voters decided that none of the candidates for president were worthy of their vote, were set aside for hand-recounting. However, it's obvious, based on the facts in the preceding paragraph, that before the hand recounts started, Democrat election officials took those "undervoted" ballots and additional unvoted ballots and fraudulently MANUFACTURED dimpled chads for AlGore in the manner described above. Then they proceeded to count them as Gore votes.

If you remember, 3 or 4 days after the election, a Democrat election official in one of those counties (Palm Beach, I think) was caught by police with a Votomatic machine in his car. It's clear now what he was doing. He was using the stylus on that machine to MANUFACTURE dimpled chads for Gore.

An addendum from Longhorn_Platinum dated 7/16.2008 with many thanks:

It's also highly likely that this member of the Palm Beach canvassing board was using his stylus for an even more sinister purpose. We all remember the flak about double-punched ballots. According to a NewsMax article (no longer available on the web), double-punched ballots are a common voting error that occurs in all areas of the country, and not just in the presidential race, but in all types of races. However, in Palm Beach County, the double-punched ballots were turning up in record frequencies, not just in 2000, but also in 1996 (a dry run?), but only in the presidential race. The most likely explanation is not voter confusion caused by the butterfly ballot, but one person neatly stacking ballots together, and then using a stylus to punch through the Gore "hole". This would leave ballots already punched for Gore unchanged, while ballots cast for other candidates would become double-punched

This explanation especially makes sense when you consider one fact that received precious little attention from the media. Of the 19,200 double-punched ballots, only about 4000 were double-punched for Buchanan-Gore. The other 15,000+ were double-punched for Bush-Gore. It’s highly likely that Bush was thus cheated out of over 15,000 votes. A margin that large would have settled the question long before the legal fiasco began, and our nation would have been spared 37 days of uncertainty.


2) In the Broward County hand recount, the Democrat election officials fraudulently divined that ballots where the voters decided that none of the candidates for president were worthy of their vote were really votes for AlGore if the voters voted for Democrats in all the other positions on the ballot. That's how AlGore "picked up" more than 400 votes in that county.

3) When AlGore saw that he still couldn't win the election, he ordered his lawyers to sue Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris to force her to violate Florida Law and the U.S. Constitution to allow hand recounts in certain heavily Democrat counties after the deadline mandated by the Florida Legislature had expired. Judge Terry Lewis ruled that Harris had some discretion to allow hand recounts if there was sufficient reason under Florida law. Harris ruled that since there was no fraud or no machine failure, such recounts were not permitted under Florida law. Judge Lewis agreed that Secretary Harris should certify the election with Bush the winner.

But, the seven highly partisan liberal members of the Florida Supreme Court couldn't let Bush's victory stand, so they unilaterally stepped in without an appeal and prevented Secretary Harris from certifying the election. The Florida Supreme Court then ordered that the Bush and Gore sides present arguments on whether the election should be certified.

It was in his argument on this issue that Gore's lead lawyer, David Boies, lied when he claimed that the Illinois Supreme Court had ruled that dimpled chads should be counted in determining the intent of the voter. The fact is that the Illinois Supreme Court had ruled exactly the opposite – that dimpled chads should NOT be counted and to be counted, a chad must be hanging by at least two corners.

Naturally, the Florida Supreme Court violated Florida law, federal law, and the U. S. Constitution and ruled, largely based on the David Boies lie, that hand recounts in certain heavily Democrat counties must continue and set a deadline of 5:00PM on November 26, 2000, for completing the recounts and sending the results to Secretary Harris. Giving those counties such a short time to complete the hand recounts turned out to be a serious error committed by the Court.

Several days before the Florida Supreme Court stepped in uninvited, the Miami-Dade County Canvassing Board had announced that it would not be able to complete its hand recount before December 2, 2000. Consequently, that Board decided to discontinue its recount and certify the vote tally as of November 14, the original mandated deadline. However, the REAL reason it stopped the hand recount was that it was about to start counting the Hispanic precincts that went 80% to 90% for Bush and the Board feared that Bush would begin picking up votes. (It turns out that the canvassing board was correct. A review of all the Miami-Dade "undercount" ballots conducted in January, 2001, by the Palm Beach Post showed that Bush would have PICKED UP a total of 6 votes had the hand recount been completed.) Stopping the hand recount was a blow for Gore because he expected to pick up 600 votes in Miami-Dade. Gore couldn't let the Miami-Dade count stop, so he sued to force the canvassing board to resume its count.

After the Florida Supreme Court issued its ruling, the Palm Beach County Canvassing Board started its recount. However, it only worked half-days before Thanksgiving Day and did no counting at all on the holiday. Consequently, it was unable to meet the Court-imposed deadline so its recount was not included in the final certified tally. Then the Canvassing Board had the gall to complain that the deadline was unfair.

Since the Florida Supreme Court ruling clearly violated Florida law, federal law, and the U.S. Constitution, the Bush Team appealed that ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court. The U.S. Supreme Court unanimously vacated the Florida Supreme Court ruling.

4) On November 26, 2000, Secretary Harris officially certified the Florida election results with Bush as the winner. Naturally, Al Gore couldn't allow that to stand, so he brought suit to force the continuation of the recounts in Miami-Dade, Nassau, and Palm Beach Counties. Gore also asked the court to declare him the winner even though he had lost in every recount and Bush had been officially certified as the winner.

5) Dutifully, the liberal Florida Supreme Court ruled in Gore’s favor by a 4-3 vote. In his dissent, Florida Supreme Court Chief Justice Charles Wells, a liberal Democrat, stated:

"I could not more strongly disagree with [the majority's] decision to reverse the trial court and prolong this judicial process. I also believe that the majority's decision cannot withstand the scrutiny Which will certainly immediately follow under the United States Constitution .... I have a deep and abiding concern that the prolonging of judicial process in this counting contest propels this country and this state into an unprecedented and unnecessary constitutional crisis." Chief Justice Wells was correct.

6) The Bush team had no choice but to appeal the unconstitutional decision of the Florida Supreme Court. Since the Florida Supreme Court (FLSC) violated the U.S. Constitution, U.S. laws, the Florida Constitution, and Florida laws, the U.S. Supreme Court had no choice but to intervene. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled 7 (Renquist, Scalia, Thomas, Kennedy, O'Connor, Breyer, Souter) to 2 (Ginsberg, Stevens) that the FLSC acted in violation the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution by ruling that the recounts should continue. Since that ruling came at the deadline for submitting the results to the Electoral College, there was no time for any more recounts, so the FL Legislature submitted Florida's electoral votes for George W. Bush, thus electing him president.

In his dissent, Justice John Paul Stevens severely chastised the Florida Court for not stopping the recounts and for allowing the issue to come before the US Supreme Court. Unfortunately, he couldn't bring himself to take the next logical step and vote with the majority.

A few months after the 2000 election a consortium from the liberal media including USA TODAY/Miami Herald/Knight Ridder concluded: “George W. Bush would have won a hand count of Florida's disputed ballots if the standard advocated by Al Gore had been used, the first full study of the ballots reveals. Bush would have won by 1,665 votes - more than triple his official 537-vote margin - if every dimple, hanging chad and mark on the ballots had been counted as votes.

Several other recounts were conducted by various consortia of the liberal media all of which concluded that George W. Bush would have won Florida.

We all remember that AlGore who fought desperately to disqualify legal military absentee ballots and managed to disqualify 2,400 of those legal ballots. (An aside: A Federal Appeals Court ruled that all those 2,400 ballots were legal and should have been counted. However, the ruling came after the Florida vote had already been certified and the electoral votes submitted to the U.S. House of Representatives, so those legal military absentee ballots were never counted. It’s a sure bet that a vast majority of those votes would have been cast for George W. Bush.)

Ironically, the courts were not the major factor in Bush's election victory! Again: THE COURTS WERE NOT THE MAJOR FACTOR IN BUSH'S VICTORY!

The major factor in Bush's victory was Elian Gonzalez. Or, more precisely, the Clinton/Reno Gestapo raid to kidnap Elian and send him back to Cuban slavery. Algore's margin in Miami-Dade was 78,000 votes less than Clinton's in 1996 as Hispanics turned out in droves to vote for Bush. Ironically, if Clinton/Reno had allowed Elian to stay in Miami, AlGore would be president today.

Conclusion

AlGore showed us in Florida the lengths to which a megalomaniac politician will go when he sees power slipping through his fingers. He said, "I'll do anything to win," and he did. He lied, cheated, and stole in his coup attempt to overthrow a duly elected president. He lied by having David Boies lie to the Florida Supreme Court about the Illinois Supreme Court ruling on dimpled chads. He cheated by having his lackeys in South Florida manufacture dimpled chads as votes for Gore. He stole by having those same lackeys punch out extra chads to steal already recorded votes for Bush. Even with all his lying, cheating, and stealing he could never manufacture enough votes to win because the votes for him were never there.

Dash_Riprock
12-07-2003, 08:27 PM
I've heard all this before, but I still like reading about it.

UnrepentantLib
12-08-2003, 01:25 AM
[ QUOTE ]
4) In all of Florida about 5,000 convicted felons illegally voted in the election. It's a sure bet that the vast majority of those felons voted for AlGore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Convicted felons vote 80% democratic.

However, convicted felons from other states cannot be legally barred from voting in Florida, a judge had told the Florida government.

The government knew this, and illegally stopped convicted felons from other states who had moved to Florida from voting anyways.

The end result? Tens of thousands of voters denied, belonging to a group who leans 80% democratic. Easily enough to tip the election for Gore.

The BBC, of course, led by Greg Palast, had confidential documents that showed the Floridian senior officials knew ahead of time what they were doing was verboten.

During an interview with one of the Republican higher-ups in the Florida election system, when confronted with a scandalous document with his signature on it, the Republican all of a sudden broke out in a sweat, ripped off his microphone wire, dashed out of the interview room and into his office, barricaded his door, and frantically paged security to kick out the BBC.

There were some irregularities on the Gore side of Florida, too -- that's America, kids. It wouldn't be America if both sides weren't caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

However, in this case, the Republican misdeeds greatly outweighed the Democrat misdeeds in scope and in organization at a higher-up level.

Naturalized-Texan
12-08-2003, 08:27 AM
Convicted felons are automatically stripped of their right to vote for life and those 5,000 convicted felons all voted illegally.

Naturalized-Texan
12-08-2003, 08:39 AM
Other interesting tidbits:

At one time or another, most conservatives have dumped on Rep. Chris Shays (R, CT) for being too liberal. However, Byron York, writing in the 12/31/2000 issue of National Review, gives Chris Shays credit where credit is due - Chris Shays probably saved the election for George W. Bush. Byron York was an observer of the Palm Beach County Democrat vote-stealing operation and Chris Shays was the most effective of the Republican monitors. He did more to curtail the vote-stealing excesses of the PB Co. election board, in general, and Carol Roberts, in particular, than anyone else. Had Shays not been so effective, Carol Roberts may well have stolen enough votes to elect AlGore.

More from Byron York: So the first priority was to keep a close eye on Roberts. And sure enough, there were some touchy moments in the predawn hours. "It was five or six in the morning, when Judge Burton and Theresa LePore were not in the room," Shays recalls. "Carol Roberts just started to open up one of the containers, take out some of the cards, and go through them. At one point, one of the sheriffs came up to her and said, 'You can't do that.'" And she said, 'Yes, I can.' And he said, 'You can't do that unless the other two members of the board are present. Ma'am, you need to close that up right now.' And then she did. Later, I thanked the sheriff and he said, 'If she hadn't closed it up, I would have arrested her.'"

More from Byron York: As you probably remember, Palm Beach County missed by 2 hours the recount deadline illegally imposed by the Florida Supreme Court (The U.S. Supreme Court vacated that deadline in a unanimous vote). Ironically, if Palm Beach election board member Carol Roberts hadn't insisted on taking so many cigarette breaks, they would have finished the recount with plenty of time to spare.

Naturalized-Texan
12-08-2003, 10:21 AM
http://users4.ev1.net/~rwadding/BUSHwinner.jpg

http://users4.ev1.net/~rwadding/ballot.jpg

Warlady
12-08-2003, 11:06 AM
NT that is so funny and so true. Al Gore never won a legal recount. He never led once. Those who don't believe it need to get a life and read "At Any Cost" by Bill Sammon.

Bluemoon_Rising
12-08-2003, 01:19 PM
Good work, NT.

Naturalized-Texan
12-08-2003, 01:33 PM
I forgot to include the following in the description of the USSC 7-2 ruling in Bush V. Gore. I will edit it in:

In his dissent, Justice John Paul Stevens severely chastised the Florids Court for not stopping the recounts and for allowing the issue to come to the US Supreme Court. Unfortunately, he couldn't bring himself to take the next logical step and vote with the majority.

Timberwolf
12-08-2003, 05:04 PM
[ QUOTE ]
UnrepentantLib said:
[ QUOTE ]
4) In all of Florida about 5,000 convicted felons illegally voted in the election. It's a sure bet that the vast majority of those felons voted for AlGore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Convicted felons vote 80% democratic.

[/ QUOTE ]
More likely 95%+...

[ QUOTE ]
However, convicted felons from other states cannot be legally barred from voting in Florida, a judge had told the Florida government.

[/ QUOTE ]
Bullshit.

[ QUOTE ]
The government knew this, and illegally stopped convicted felons from other states who had moved to Florida from voting anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]
More bullshit...

[ QUOTE ]
The end result? Tens of thousands of voters denied, belonging to a group who leans 80% democratic. Easily enough to tip the election for Gore.

[/ QUOTE ]
Man, you just hit the trifecta, didn't ya? The ONLY way a convicted felon can vote is through an act of Congress or a Presidential pardon.

[ QUOTE ]
The BBC, of course, led by Greg Palast, had confidential documents that showed the Floridian senior officials knew ahead of time what they were doing was verboten.

[/ QUOTE ]
Palast is not a credible source by any stretch of one's imagination. He's a bald-faced liar.

[ QUOTE ]
During an interview with one of the Republican higher-ups in the Florida election system, when confronted with a scandalous document with his signature on it, the Republican all of a sudden broke out in a sweat, ripped off his microphone wire, dashed out of the interview room and into his office, barricaded his door, and frantically paged security to kick out the BBC.

[/ QUOTE ]
Link please...

[ QUOTE ]
There were some irregularities on the Gore side of Florida, too -- that's America, kids. It wouldn't be America if both sides weren't caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but the Rs didn't HAVE a hand in the cookie jar.

[ QUOTE ]
However, in this case, the Republican misdeeds greatly outweighed the Democrat misdeeds in scope and in organization at a higher-up level.

[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly what ARE you smoking? Must be some pretty good shit to make you this delusional...and I'm not even a big fan of GW...I can imagine what everyone else is thinking.

UnrepentantLib
12-08-2003, 05:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Convicted felons are automatically stripped of their right to vote for life and those 5,000 convicted felons all voted illegally.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a complicated legal subject. However, at least in the case of Florida, felons convicted in other states are barred from voting in *that* state, but are allowed to vote in another state if they become a citizen of that state. Thus, if 5,000 convicted felons voted illegally for Gore, it's also quite possible that as many as 30-40,000 convicted felons from other states were kept from legally voting for Gore.

All of which is apples and oranges, though, if you want to argue of fraud and corruption, not merely in terms of "who would have won had all the dust settled fairly" -- the case you reference involves something between ignorance and malfeasance on a city or county level; the case I reference leads up to Florida government and possibly the governor's office in terms of who's implicated.

Either way, I'm not the "crying over spilt milk" type. My take on the whole thing is: Bush and Gore's campaigns and supporters probably both used unethical tactics in Florida, and Bush's unethical tactics worked better. Thus, he's the president, and it's not worth worrying about anymore. The United States' history is replete with all sorts of interesting compromises and 'fiddling', and it's just that -- history, done and sealed.

UnrepentantLib
12-08-2003, 05:36 PM
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=122&row=1

There's a link to some of his information -- it's more completely explained in his book, "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy".

Palast, like him or hate him (And many conservatives I know like him, since he goes after whoever's in power -- Republicans or Democrats), tends to back up his work with scads of classified documents and other concrete data.

But, as always, feel free to debate it.

Oh, and I was only partially right in my initial post -- If the convicted felon is from one of 35 out of 50 states that allow ex-felons to vote, then they'd be able to vote in Florida.

Naturalized-Texan
12-08-2003, 05:49 PM
Thre fact remains that the Demonrats committed massive election fraud in Florida in 2000 the likes of which has never been seen in this nation and they still couldn't manufacture enough votes for AlGore to win. Why? Because the votes for AlGore were never there in the first place.

Without the massive Demonrat fraud, George W. Bush would have won Florida by more than 10,000 votes with and without recounts.

oracle
12-08-2003, 05:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
UnrepentantLib said:
However, convicted felons from other states cannot be legally barred from voting in Florida, a judge had told the Florida government.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong! What the judge said that convicted frlons from other states who have had their voting rights restored in those states cannot be barred from voting. Convicted felons who have not had their voting rights restored can still be barred from voting in Florida.


[ QUOTE ]
The BBC, of course, led by Greg Palast, had confidential documents that showed the Floridian senior officials knew ahead of time what they were doing was verboten.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but Palast is a liar. We've already had one liberal tried to use him as a source for their BS claims about Florida and it was quickly shown that Palast was making up 'facts" out of thin air.


[ QUOTE ]
However, in this case, the Republican misdeeds greatly outweighed the Democrat misdeeds in scope and in organization at a higher-up level.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is just typical liberal sleazebag tactics - trying to justify your own unethical behavior by accusing both sides of unethical behavior. The fact is that there is nothing to indicate any unethical behavior by the Bush campaign (and as far as Florida not allowing felons from other states who's voting rights had been restored to vote, that was being done begore Jeb became Governor, so you can't blame him for that). The same cannot be said about Gore and the Democrats.

UnrepentantLib
12-08-2003, 05:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Wrong! What the judge said that convicted frlons from other states who have had their voting rights restored in those states cannot be barred from voting. Convicted felons who have not had their voting rights restored can still be barred from voting in Florida.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's 35 states out of 50. Not to mention that the "convicted felon" lists in Florida were horribly inaccurate, to the point where in one specific case less than 5% of the names on the list could be verified as actual convicted felons, and a very large number had conviction dates that were either in the future (?!) or blank entirely, or names for the conviction that didn't match the names of the voter, etc. etc. etc.

[ QUOTE ]
This is just typical liberal sleazebag tactics - trying to justify your own unethical behavior by accusing both sides of unethical behavior.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never been to Florida, except a trip to Disney World when I was five. Hence, I don't think you can say I'm trying to justify my own unethical behavior.

As far as "my side", I'm a side of one. :-) I'm a narcissist who thinks I could run most things better than either party. It's a character flaw I freely admit to, because there's no sense in trying to hide it -- my arrogance will probably pop out sooner or later. I really do try to be humble, though.

Warlady
12-08-2003, 06:21 PM
It was estimated that about 10,000 voters went home early from the Florida panhandle due to the networks calling Florida early to Gore. Before the polls closed. Those were 10,000 votes that would have gone to Bush since the panhandle is overwhelmingly Republican. Couple those votes with the fact that Bush never lost a single recount I think the fact that Bush won Florida is pretty well settled. Had Gore won his own home state Florida would not even be an issue. Had Gore won Clinton's home state Florida would not be an issue. There are very few if any instances where Republicans have been charged with vote fraud. In contrast there are mountains of instances where Democrats have been charged with vote fraud. That's why Democrats fight election reform with every ounce of their being.

Naturalized-Texan
12-08-2003, 06:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This is just typical liberal sleazebag tactics - trying to justify your own unethical behavior by accusing both sides of unethical behavior. The fact is that there is nothing to indicate any unethical behavior by the Bush campaign (and as far as Florida not allowing felons from other states who's voting rights had been restored to vote, that was being done begore Jeb became Governor, so you can't blame him for that). The same cannot be said about Gore and the Democrats.

[/ QUOTE ]

The psychiatric term for that is projection. When liberals/Democrats accuse conservatives/Republicans of something sleazy, it means that the liberals/Democrats are guilty of that sleaze and it's highly unlikely that conservatives/ Republicans are guilty.

DesertFox
12-08-2003, 06:23 PM
Precisely. It's like, whenever Bill Clinton said "no," you knew the truth was "yes."

Rhino
12-08-2003, 09:41 PM
DEAD HORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STOP BEATING IT OR I'LL CALL PETA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MaximumSam
12-08-2003, 10:19 PM
I wonder if Bill Janklow will vote Democratic.

UnrepentantLib
12-08-2003, 10:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if Bill Janklow will vote Democratic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn you Sam.. I just spit out what I was drinking. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif

In all seriousness, though... I saw some photos of people outside the courthouse holding up signs in support of Janklow, and it just sickened me.

Timberwolf
12-08-2003, 11:04 PM
Can't stand it that there are some that support Janklow, huh?? Gee, wonder what you thought of all those supporters of Bill the Zipper when the supported accusations of rape surface...but THAT was "just about sex", wasn't it?

UnrepentantLib
12-08-2003, 11:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Can't stand it that there are some that support Janklow, huh?? Gee, wonder what you thought of all those supporters of Bill the Zipper when the supported accusations of rape surface...but THAT was "just about sex", wasn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll ignore your comments about Clinton, since they're not only factually wrong as to the positions you assume I have, they're irrelevant to the topic of Janklow.


Janklow was a man who considered himself above the law -- a prior close call at the same intersection, speeding through a stopsign. Twelve (?!) speeding tickets over a period of several years. Police lights installed in his car so that he could speed with impunity if he really wanted to.

His hubris finally caught up to him, and he killed someone.

To support a killer like that because he has a little "R" next to his name is beyond my comprehension.

MaximumSam
12-08-2003, 11:35 PM
http://news.mpr.org/features/200109/27_hetlandc_forestfires-m/images/janklow.jpg

"I forgot to eat."

UnrepentantLib
12-09-2003, 12:03 AM
...For the first time in his life.

DeclinetoState
12-09-2003, 12:16 AM
UL said: "...my arrogance will probably pop out sooner or later."

No kidding? I never would have guessed.

Next time you want to warn us about your character flaws, UL, try to tell us before they've become too obvious. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue1.gif

That said, welcome to Free Conservatives.com.

Rhino
12-09-2003, 02:42 AM
[ QUOTE ]
UnrepentantLib said:
That's 35 states out of 50. Not to mention that the "convicted felon" lists in Florida were horribly inaccurate, to the point where in one specific case less than 5% of the names on the list could be verified as actual convicted felons, and a very large number had conviction dates that were either in the future (?!) or blank entirely, or names for the conviction that didn't match the names of the voter, etc. etc. etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
True, but it seems obvious to err on the side of caution and exclude all, and then restore on a case by case basis as justified. I see no logic to giving all of them voting rights unless someone proves otherwise. The people motivated to exclude such voters do not have access to the information they would need to contest such actions. They should have been excluded.

[ QUOTE ]
As far as "my side", I'm a side of one. :-) I'm a narcissist who thinks I could run most things better than either party. It's a character flaw I freely admit to, because there's no sense in trying to hide it -- my arrogance will probably pop out sooner or later. I really do try to be humble, though.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, but although some debates will necessarily become heated at times (nature of the beast), I do have to give you credit for appearing far more humble than many other liberals who show up here. Most have little vocabulary beyond insults and vulgarities. Of course, that won't win you a popularity contest here obviously, but you are at least obtaining some measure of success in your attempts to be humble. I feel it only fair to mention that.

Large_Al
12-09-2003, 06:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
UnrepentantLib said:
[ QUOTE ]
Can't stand it that there are some that support Janklow, huh?? Gee, wonder what you thought of all those supporters of Bill the Zipper when the supported accusations of rape surface...but THAT was "just about sex", wasn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll ignore your comments about Clinton, since they're not only factually wrong as to the positions you assume I have, they're irrelevant to the topic of Janklow.


Janklow was a man who considered himself above the law -- a prior close call at the same intersection, speeding through a stopsign. Twelve (?!) speeding tickets over a period of several years. Police lights installed in his car so that he could speed with impunity if he really wanted to.

His hubris finally caught up to him, and he killed someone.

To support a killer like that because he has a little "R" next to his name is beyond my comprehension.

[/ QUOTE ]


Unrepentant Your funny!!!!
You will ignore his comments because he assumes you supported Clinton.
Yet you turn around and Assume he supports Janklow because he has a R next to his name. Then you said his comments are irrelevant to the topic of Janklow.
Excuse me Mister liberal What the F#%& (to use a Kerry Term) Does Janklow have to do with the Dem's trying to steal the election. I'd say your off topic also.
But I forgot your a Liberal "don't do as I do, do as I tell you".

Large_Al
12-09-2003, 06:23 AM
Oh pardon my manners welcome to FC

Naturalized-Texan
12-09-2003, 08:38 AM
Five women have testified under oath that they were raped by BJ Clinton. That testimony was included in the overwhelming evidence of BJ Clinton's guilt that was the basis of his impeachment. Unfortunately, the Senate refused to let the House Impeachment Managers present that overwhelming evidence of guilt.

I realize that this is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic1.gif but I just had to set the record straight.

Warlady
12-09-2003, 08:47 AM
Sam's changing the subject again. What's the reason this time Sammie?

UnrepentantLib
12-09-2003, 10:06 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Unrepentant Your funny!!!!
You will ignore his comments because he assumes you supported Clinton.
Yet you turn around and Assume he supports Janklow because he has a R next to his name. Then you said his comments are irrelevant to the topic of Janklow.
Excuse me Mister liberal What the F#%& (to use a Kerry Term) Does Janklow have to do with the Dem's trying to steal the election. I'd say your off topic also.
But I forgot your a Liberal "don't do as I do, do as I tell you".


[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't suggest he supported Janklow. He said "can't stand it that some supported Janklow, huh?" and I responded with what I thought of those that *do* support Janklow -- not what I think of him, because I don't know if he supports Janklow or not. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Please read my statement again, and I think I made that clear.

Oh, and thanks for the welcome. :D


Regarding Clinton: I think rapists should go to trial, and if convicted, go to prison.

MaximumSam
12-09-2003, 10:14 AM
What's the reason this time Sammie?

This thread is about something that happened three years ago. Just throwing in some current news.

Apollo5600
12-09-2003, 10:17 AM
We understand that they were very painfull to some people sam, and that some people need to change the subject so as to keep from reliving these painfull memorys.

Apollo5600
12-09-2003, 10:18 AM
yaaaa and I wasn't reffering to sam just a second ago either.

UnrepentantLib
12-09-2003, 10:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
yaaaa and I wasn't reffering to sam just a second ago either.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's hard to tell with text, but I think that's sarcasm. You think I was implying TW supported Janklow?

TW asked about how it bothers me that people support Janklow, and I said the following:

[ QUOTE ]
Janklow was a man who considered himself above the law -- a prior close call at the same intersection, speeding through a stopsign. Twelve (?!) speeding tickets over a period of several years. Police lights installed in his car so that he could speed with impunity if he really wanted to.

His hubris finally caught up to him, and he killed someone.

To support a killer like that because he has a little "R" next to his name is beyond my comprehension.

[/ QUOTE ]

The last sentence, "To support a killer", refers to the original topic TW himself was asking me about -- the folks standing outside the courthouse holding up signs in support of Janklow.

Apollo5600
12-09-2003, 10:30 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It's hard to tell with text, but I think that's sarcasm. You think I was implying TW supported Janklow?

[/ QUOTE ]

nooooooooo ofcourse not, how could i? I just said that I wasnt reffering to Sam.

[ QUOTE ]
The last sentence, "To support a killer", refers to the original topic TW himself was asking me about -- the folks standing outside the courthouse holding up signs in support of Janklow.

[/ QUOTE ]

ohhhh i see, well ofcourse, we knew perfectly what you ment! :D

no need to worry

Timberwolf
12-09-2003, 04:53 PM
UnrepentantLib said:
Can't stand it that there are some that support Janklow, huh?? Gee, wonder what you thought of all those supporters of Bill the Zipper when the supported accusations of rape surface...but THAT was "just about sex", wasn't it?

I'll ignore your comments about Clinton, since they're not only factually wrong as to the positions you assume I have, they're irrelevant to the topic of Janklow.

Sorry, but when 5 women have come forward and accused him of such, it cannot be dismissed as "factually wrong". Especially in light of what's been documented concerning Juanita Brodderick. You should begin to see the correlation to Janklow shortly.

[ QUOTE ]
Janklow was a man who considered himself above the law -- a prior close call at the same intersection, speeding through a stopsign.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just like Clinton...only his "running the stop sign" was when the women he was about to violate said, "no" and he went ahead anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
Twelve (?!) speeding tickets over a period of several years. Police lights installed in his car so that he could speed with impunity if he really wanted to.

[/ QUOTE ]
FIVE rapes and atl least one intern in who cares how many years...and using Arkansas STATE TROOPERS to set up the "meetings".

[ QUOTE ]
His hubris finally caught up to him, and he killed someone.

[/ QUOTE ]
You mean like Ron Brown and/or Vince Foster??

[ QUOTE ]
To support a killer like that because he has a little "R" next to his name is beyond my comprehension.

[/ QUOTE ]
To support a killer like that because he has a little "d" next to his name is beyond my comprehension.

Do you NOW see the correlation and why I used Clinton as a reference?? The hypocrisy is so damned blatant, it defies logic.

UnrepentantLib
12-09-2003, 05:02 PM
You're missing the point entirely. The hypocrisy isn't blatant because I don't support people who are rapists and murderers. If they happened to be named Clinton, I don't see how it would make any difference.

As to whether Clinton is a rapist and/or a murderer, I honestly don't know. I think, personally, he should be put on trial for every one of the alleged crimes you named, and a jury should hear all the evidence and come to a verdict -- just like they did with Janklow. The evidence in those cases is not so concrete, clear-cut, and simple as it is in Janklow's case.

If Janklow were on trial for rape and murder and he said he didn't do it, just like Clinton should be on trial for those crimes (since he's been reasonably accused), I would have no problem with people showing their support for Janklow. But he's not on trial for a story with two legitimate sides, such as rape allegations or the majority of murder trials -- He participated in open-and-shut vehicular manslaughter, with twelve prior speeding tickets on his record, a near-fatal-collision at the exact same intersection prior, and police lights installed in his car so he could speed with impunity.

Why do you automatically assume that I support Clinton?

FatherTime
12-09-2003, 05:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
UnrepentantLib said:
[ QUOTE ]
Can't stand it that there are some that support Janklow, huh?? Gee, wonder what you thought of all those supporters of Bill the Zipper when the supported accusations of rape surface...but THAT was "just about sex", wasn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll ignore your comments about Clinton, since they're not only factually wrong as to the positions you assume I have, they're irrelevant to the topic of Janklow.


Janklow was a man who considered himself above the law -- a prior close call at the same intersection, speeding through a stopsign. Twelve (?!) speeding tickets over a period of several years. Police lights installed in his car so that he could speed with impunity if he really wanted to.

His hubris finally caught up to him, and he killed someone.

To support a killer like that because he has a little "R" next to his name is beyond my comprehension.

[/ QUOTE ]

UL-

I very much agree with what you just posted. But let me explain my disgust with the left.

It is ok to murder an innocent person as long as you are a lib, but, if you have an "R" by your name, you are immediately given everything but the death penalty.

Case in point:
Ted "Vat of Scotch" Kennedy bruttally murders an young and impressionable girl and he gets off scott (scotch?) free. No DUI. No time in jail. ****er is still drunk as a skunk and the goat-****er demonKKKrats hold him up as their poster (plastered?) boy for how America should be run.

Fritz "I-hate-niggers" Hollings gets a pass on his racial comments, but, he wants to put "R"s in front of his burning cross for not providing wellfare subsidies to folks in his state.

Bob "To the Klan, I pledge my alligience" Byrd, its ok to be an un-repentant Grand Dragon of the KKK, go on TV and refer to folks as "niggers" and call all arabs as "sand swammies". Just so long as he burns books instead of reading them, its ok to be a demonKKKrat.

Al "I lost florida and all I got was my ass handed to me" Gore and his father both stood against the civil rights bill back in the 60s, but, don't let that change anyones minds. Coming from a man (she-male?) who had to go to "alpha male" classes to please he wife, I don't think he can say another thing without being called a liar. No wonder he is endorsing Dr. Death from Vt.

So, do I think Janklow got a raw deal? I think he got what he deserved. I think he had a horrible defense and lied during the court procedings. Nobody in MN is showing much sympathy for him, since he broke the law.

Yes, I do believe that if you break the law, you should be punnished. What an idea...guess that makes me unable to serve on jury duty. (oops...let the cat out of the bag on that one)

The fact that folks supported him through it is not indicative of their lack of character. Should his wife leave him because of this accident? I don't believe so.

My $.02

-FT

RogerFGay
07-15-2008, 01:47 PM
It was estimated that about 10,000 voters went home early from the Florida panhandle due to the networks calling Florida early to Gore. Before the polls closed. Those were 10,000 votes that would have gone to Bush since the panhandle is overwhelmingly Republican.

That was sleeze-bag Dan Rather trying to put in the fix.

Longhorn_Platinum
07-15-2008, 05:55 PM
Naturalized-Texan:
Fraud after Election Day

1) According to several sources, including the manufacturer of the Votomatic voting machine used in several Democrat counties in Florida, it is impossible to produce a dimpled or "pregnant" chad with the stylus on a single ballot using the Votomatic. According to those same sources, the only way to produce a dimpled or "pregnant" chad on a ballot is to stack 5 or more ballots on top of each other and press down very hard with the Votomatic stylus.

After the mandatory machine recount, the so-called undervotes, actually ballots where the voters decided that none of the candidates for president were worthy of their vote, were set aside for hand-recounting. However, it's obvious, based on the facts in the preceding paragraph, that before the hand recounts started, Democrat election officials took those "undervoted" ballots and additional unvoted ballots and fraudulently MANUFACTURED dimpled chads for AlGore in the manner described above. Then they proceeded to count them as Gore votes.

If you remember, 3 or 4 days after the election, a Democrat election official in one of those counties (Palm Beach, I think) was caught by police with a Votomatic machine in his car. It's clear now what he was doing. He was using the stylus on that machine to MANUFACTURE dimpled chads for Gore.

:unsmile: I have to disagree with that last sentence. It's more likely that this member of the Palm Beach canvassing board was using his stylus for an even more sinister purpose. Do you remember the flak about double-punched ballots? According to a NewsMax article (no longer available on the web), double-punched ballots are a common voting error that occurs in all areas of the country, & not just in the presidential race, but in all types of races. However, in Palm Beach County, the double-punched ballots were turning up in record frequencies, not just in 2000, but also in 1996 (a dry run?), but only in the presidential race. The most likely explanation is not voter confusion caused by the butterfly ballot, but one person neatly stacking ballots together, then using a stylus to punch through the Gore "hole". This would leave ballots already punched for Gore unchanged, while ballots cast for other candidates would become double-punched. I believe this is what the man with the Vote-O-Matic machine was really doing.

:unsmile: This explanation especially makes sense when you consider one fact that received precious little attention from the media. Of the 19,200 double-punched ballots, only about 4000 were double-punched for Buchanan-Gore. The other 15,000+ were double-punched for Bush-Gore. I firmly believe that Bush was thus cheated out of over 15,000 votes. A margin that large would have settled the question long before the legal fiasco began, & our nation would have been spared 37 days of uncertainty.

:moo: Naturalized-Texan, I hope you will consider making this an addendum to you essay.

DesertFox
07-16-2008, 07:31 AM
Good reasoning. Makes sense, and integrates that sleaze bag and his voting machine into the action in an entirely believable way.

Naturalized-Texan
07-16-2008, 01:35 PM
:unsmile: Naturalized-Texan, I hope you will consider making this an addendum to you essay.
I added a slightly edited version (in keeping with the tone of my essay) to my essay and credited you for the Addendum. Thanks.

Longhorn_Platinum
07-16-2008, 02:10 PM
:thumb: You're welcome, & thank you, Sir.