McCain: The GOP's John f*****g Kerry

[Etaoin]

I received this e-mail from what I consider to be a reliable source. I have checked Snopes, so it is apparently not a fraud, pfish, or what ever. I have searched to the limit of my very limited research capabilities and have been unable to confirm or deny the claims. However, I do remember that McCain refused preferential repatriation Which was offered because of his father's rank

Yet, these allegations ring true because McCain is certainly living up to expectations!!! There was a lot more to the letter which was not pertinent to McCain, so I have edited the letter substantially.

Subject: McCain

I don't have much on hand, but I do know this much--McCain was directly responsible for starting the terrible June 1967 fire aboard the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal while it was on station off the coast of N. Vietnam--the worst and most destructive fire aboard a US warship in Navy history. There is a black and white film shown to all trainees in Navy boot camp (which I saw myself)--film shot from the carrier's island and deck/landing cameras which showed McCain's airplane (with McCain in the cockpit) sitting on the flight deck firing a missile into a group of fully fueled planes--and showing how rapidly the fire spread. Portions of this film were shown on a History Channel special about the Forrestal fire in 1997.

McCain was given special treatment in flight training school as his father was an admiral; the son was a lousy aviator and committed several serious safety violations--violations which would have gotten any other trainee quickly dismissed. He was given decorations left and right for just doing his duty, probably willingly collaborated with the North Vietnamese while a POW and during that time may have been indirectly responsible for causing the torture deaths of two fellow POWs, Air Force pilots, Bill Atterberry and Lance Sijan, who had on separate occasions tried to escape from captivity. (Sijan was a Serb and the first AF Academy grad to win the Congressional Medal of Honor.

Upon return to the States, he divorced his wife after she had been terribly disabled and badly disfigured in a serious car wreck, married some rich trophy wife and pillhead who had a habit of stealing prescription painkillers.


Perhaps some of you NET SHARPIES can confirm or deny my post and opinion that it is valid.

[Westfield Jimmy]

I received this e-mail from what I consider to be a reliable source. I have checked Snopes, so it is apparently not a fraud, pfish, or what ever. I have searched to the limit of my very limited research capabilities and have been unable to confirm or deny the claims. However, I do remember that McCain refused preferential repatriation Which was offered because of his father's rank

Yet, these allegations ring true because McCain is certainly living up to expectations!!! There was a lot more to the letter which was not pertinent to McCain, so I have edited the letter substantially.

Subject: McCain

I don't have much on hand, but I do know this much--McCain was directly responsible for starting the
terrible June 1967 fire aboard the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal while it was on station off the coast
of N. Vietnam--the worst and most destructive fire aboard a US warship in Navy history. There is a
black and white film shown to all trainees in Navy boot camp (which I saw myself)--film shot from the
carrier's island and deck/landing cameras which showed McCain's airplane (with McCain in the cockpit)
sitting on the flight deck firing a missile into a group of fully fueled planes--and showing how
rapidly the fire spread. Portions of this film were shown on a History Channel special about the
Forrestal fire in 1997.

McCain was given special treatment in flight training school as his father was an admiral; the son was
a lousy aviator and committed several serious safety violations--violations which would have gotten any
other trainee quickly dismissed. He was given decorations left and right for just doing his duty,
probably willingly collaborated with the North Vietnamese while a POW and during that time may have
been indirectly responsible for causing the torture deaths of two fellow POWs, Air Force pilots, Bill
Atterberry and Lance Sijan, who had on separate occasions tried to escape from captivity. (Sijan was a
Serb and the first AF Academy grad to win the Congressional Medal of Honor.

Upon return to the States, he divorced his wife after she had been terribly disabled and badly
disfigured in a serious car wreck, married some rich trophy wife and pillhead who had a habit of
stealing prescription painkillers.


Perhaps some of you NET SHARPIES can confirm or deny my post and opinion that it is valid.






Dear Etaoin, ...I have not heard any of this at all myself. My gripe has been his two-faced stand on issues, ..& pretending to be a supporter of the president while he actually is aiding the democratic liberals!

What I dislike about McCain is the way he chummies up with that lying phoney John Kerry, & his attempt to help aid the democrats in avoiding the nuclear option in the republican controlled senate. I actually DO WANT to see a showdown, & knockdown senate fight, ..for it is long overdue to have our republican majority START acting like the majority that they really are,

..& put the g-damn senate liberals back in their place!

[Etaoin]

I find it interesting that the author of this letter (I am withholding his name) alleges that McCain MAY be responsible for two people's deaths. The man's demonstrated lack of principles and his "friendship" with the traitor, Kerry, certainly makes the allegations consistent with what you would expect from him!

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

:eek: Wow!

[Beowulf]

I don't care for McCain either but from the video I saw once of that accident, I don't see how he started anything. To convince me I'd have to learn more. NO ONE, at least intentionally, causes an accident.

[cerberus]

That email is just digusting and low. It's the type of unsubstantiated rumor-mongering and character assasination that lowers the level of discourse in this country.

The truth is that John McCain was on the deck of the Forrestal when the fire started. His aircraft was the one that was hit by the errant missile that started that tragic fire. He barely managed to escape with his life by climbing out of his aircraft before the ordinance exploded.

The rest of that vile e-mail is equally baseless. During his time as a POW he was offered his freedom early because he was an admiral's son and he refused on principle. But I suppose facts don't matter at all anymore; all it takes is the accusation and you're guilty.

You don't like McCain's politics, fine, don't vote for him, but cheap attacks like this, and the people that propogate them need to be firmly rebuked. Crap like this just makes my blood boil. :soap:

[Etaoin]

I don't care for McCain either but from the video I saw once of that accident, I don't see how he started anything. To convince me I'd have to learn more. NO ONE, at least intentionally, causes an accident.

It was McCain's apparent INCOMPETENCE that caused the accident...there is no implication that it was deliberate. He clearly specifies that the presentation on the History Channel, had edited out the picture of McCain's aircraft.

Cerebus:

Can you validate that it was McCain's aircraft that was hit? Link Please. The author of the letter, to the best of my knowledge, is reliable and not known to make up stories. Obviously, he does not like McCain. It is equally evident that you support him, so validation would be welcome!

The media has Glomed onto the story (fiction???) that McCain was tortured. That is not consistent with what some of the POWS say WHO WERE CLASSMATES OF MINE in flight school and who were also prisoners at the Hanoi Hilton.

[Naturalized-Texan]

Here'a some more about McCain's questionable conduct as a POW from Col. David Hackworth:

Defending America (http://www.hackworth.com/25jan00.html)

Yet in McCain's own words just four days after being captured, he admits he violated the U.S. Code of Conduct by telling his captors "O.K, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

A Vietnam vet detractor says, "He received the nation's third highest award, the Silver Star, for treason. He provided aid and comfort to the enemy!"

The rest of his valor awards -- issued automatically every year while he was a POW -- read much like the Silver Star. More boilerplate often repeating the exact same words. An example: "By his heroic endeavors, exceptional skill, and devotion to duty, he reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Naval Service and the United States Armed Forces."

Yet McCain's conduct while a POW negates these glowing comments. The facts are that he signed a confession and declared himself a "black criminal who performed deeds of an air pirate." This statement and other interviews he gave to the Communist press were used as propaganda to fan the flames of the anti-war movement.

............................

McCain refused an early release. An act of valor? Three former POWs told me he was ordered to turn it down by his U.S. POW commander and he "just followed orders."

[TechnoPrincess]

I don't like McCain to say the least, but without proof on either side, I think it's disgusting to say that he was responsible and that he has lied about his time as a POW. I also know people who were there who apparently saw things from a different perspective than your classmates.

I don't like the man, never have liked the man, but I find this assertion of your friend quite disturbing and disgusting
He was given decorations left and right for just doing his duty,
probably willingly collaborated with the North Vietnamese while a POW and during that time may have
been indirectly responsible for causing the torture deaths of two fellow POWs, Air Force pilots, Bill
Atterberry and Lance Sijan, who had on separate occasions tried to escape from captivity. (Sijan was a
Serb and the first AF Academy grad to win the Congressional Medal of Honor.


I don't take those kind of accusations lightly! I have friends who still are dealing with what happened over there and to let your hatred for someone so color your perception of things that you would make a statement like that with seemingly no proof is utterly disdainable and should be looked on with scorn. NO ONE knows what it was like over there that wasn't there, but from what I've heard Hell would have been a step up in the world.

[cerberus]

It was McCain's apparent INCOMPETENCE that caused the accident...there is no implication that it was deliberate. He clearly specifies that the presentation on the History Channel, had edited out the picture of McCain's aircraft.

Cerebus:

Can you validate that it was McCain's aircraft that was hit? Link Please. The author of the letter, to the best of my knowledge, is reliable and not known to make up stories. Obviously, he does not like McCain. It is equally evident that you support him, so validation would be welcome!
on July 29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_29), 1967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967), he escaped death when a missile accidentally launched across the ship, striking his A-4 Skyhawk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-4_Skyhawk). The impact ruptured the fuel tank on his aircraft, the leaking fuel instantly ignited, and knocked a bomb into the fire. McCain escaped from his jet by climbing out of the cockpit, walking down to the nose of the plane, and jumping off the nose boom. A minute and a half after the impact, the bomb exploded underneath the plane, starting a major fire which killed 134 sailors and nearly threatened to destroy the ship.[/QUOTE]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain
All other accounts I have read say basically the same thing; the missle struck his Skyhawk, meaning he didn't fire it.
also...
http://www.virtualwall.org/units/forrestal.htm

[Beowulf]

Etaoin, I saw the video courtesy of "The History Channel" and I will have to agree with Cerberus on this one. I don't think McCain had any fault in it from what I saw.

On the "take me to the hospital and I'll tell you what you want," I'd like some proof on that. If he's proven to be guilty of treason then he should be punished for it.

[Wyatt_Junker]

It is said that you form a grid early in life and forever after, you look out through that grid. The experiences of young adulthood from a print that repeats itself throughout life.

Kerry, for example, formed his print as patented anti-war jackal. And like a skipped record, his needle caught in an obsessional groove like a tic that keeps playing oldies-but-goodies. Its what worked for him. His little con game. That people bought it then, was amazing to him at the time. He couldn't believe it, 'They actually believe me! Wow! I'm kinda popular and stuff too! Maybe I can parlay this little bad boy into a career.'

Same with McCain. His 'grid' was POW. And forever after he's been rocking back-n-forth on those laurels. Its his back-stage pass. Look at his recent anti-torture legislation. Its a rerun. He's living out of his past, channeling ancient myths that even now he can begin to romanticize, dress up and put on display. The myths may even be partially true or wholly true, but his 'message', is also his 'gift' to the world. Yes, that is how the ego works. It knights itself, turns into legend that which is still unwritten and then broadcasts it out again. Johnny badass, donchyaknow. 'I was tortured and stuff.' Look at me.

This message isn't for every veteran. The ones who don't feel the need to parrot their past or wear it on their sleeve. The ones who don't need to go on 20/20 and yank Diane Sawyer's chain. This 'message' is only for those who play the card and use their medal like an ATM debit card.

[DesertFox]

Wikipedia's a bad joke of an encyclopedia and certainly not a reliable source.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/business/media/11web.html?ex=1134968400&en=249e193bdbec0699&ei=5059&partner=AOL

[Etaoin]

on July 29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_29), 1967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967), he escaped death when a missile accidentally launched across the ship, striking his A-4 Skyhawk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-4_Skyhawk). The impact ruptured the fuel tank on his aircraft, the leaking fuel instantly ignited, and knocked a bomb into the fire. McCain escaped from his jet by climbing out of the cockpit, walking down to the nose of the plane, and jumping off the nose boom. A minute and a half after the impact, the bomb exploded underneath the plane, starting a major fire which killed 134 sailors and nearly threatened to destroy the ship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain
All other accounts I have read say basically the same thing; the missle struck his Skyhawk, meaning he didn't fire it.
also...
http://www.virtualwall.org/units/forrestal.htm

I responded to your post, but it apparently vanished. I'll try to respond again!

Thank you for complying with my request for linkage. I am, admittedly, not an experienced web researcher. On reciept of your information, I have Emailed a Classmate who also "caved" and signed a confession. I have not yet received a response from him, though I specifically inquired about McCain's involvment, connection, or whatever, with the death of the two prosoners. And his opinion of McCain.

I have also written to the author and requested that he sign onto the board for this discussion. If he doesn't, then I must assign credibility to your view, though it is not consistent with McCain's record and activities as a GOP member of Congress!


[/quote]

[Etaoin]

I will be away from my computer for @ a week. When I return, I'll pursue this thread and also get in touch with some of my former classmates who were POWs to see what I can dredge up there. I dislike being the poster, especially when it is from some one whose judgment I trusted, of fallacious information. There is already enough ignoble and damning activities on McCain's part that it is unnecessary to print (intentionally) false information. My apologies to the board.

[cerberus]

It's all good Etaoin. It takes character to admit you might be wrong and issue an apology. And you maintained your civility and class the whole time. I respect that.
I may disagree with you on McCain, but at least we can do it respectfully.

[Naturalized-Texan]

The bottom line is that after McCain's smear of conservative Christians during the 2000 South Carolina primary campaign, he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell to get the 2008 Republican nomination. His only chance to get nominated for president is as an independent.