Murtha The Turncoat

[Pendragon_6]

By KIERAN MICHAEL LALOR
January 8, 2006 --


LAST spring, I dropped by an anti-war rally in White Plains. When I made it clear that I was an Iraq vet who supported the war, the insults began to fly. Most slurs were boilerplate anti-war clichés, but one man struck a nerve: He marched up to me, looked me straight in the eye to ask, "You joined the military?" — and when I proudly answered "yes," responded, with utter disgust, "You are a sucker."

I felt the same rage last weekend just watching Rep. Jack Murtha declare on TV that, were he younger, he wouldn't join today's military.



In Full
NY Post (http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/60012.htm)




omegatrump's post that was deleted goes here. Reprinted further down.

[omegatrump]

Now I am not a DemocRat, and neither am I a Republicrat, but I do think that the slap against Murtha by all the Republicrat cheerleaders, who themselves have never seen combat, and who themselves don't have the slightest concept of how much blood it costs to maintain freedom has become a little unbalanced.

Oh, really? Care to explain what makes you so sure that "Republicrat cheerleaders", as you so quaintly put it, never saw combat? Got any proof to substantiate that?

You do realize that you sound like Howard Dean, when he categorically affirmed that "Republicans never did a bit of honest work in their lives."

Omega, the fact that you served your country during the Vietnam war - and I'm sure we all applaud and thank you for that - does not give you the right to make judgement on those who disagree with you, regardless of whether they served in the military or not.

Leave that to the Cindy Sheehans of this world. You should put yourself above them.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________
I don't know who mixed up the post, I didn't post the above, and I am sure Pendragon doesn't want credit for posting my post. LOL , Oh yea, Mush Fuzbawl, and Sean Vanity for two of the biggest, and neither do they have the right to pass judgment on me and or somebody else who did serve. No body yet has proven that Murtha is the spineless louse that John Kerry is. Until it is clear that he did not serve with distinction as a John Kerry then I am going to reserve my oppinion about him. Omega

[Pendragon_6]

omegatrump

Absolutely. We should have been on a war footing when this war started like in WWII. The borders should have been sealed. Industry should be pumping out necessary equiptment. A draft to make sure we have the manpower, etc, etc.

I wish I knew why the democrats in DC and the anti-war movement have lost track of who's side their on.

It's a sad thing to behold.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-2/955825/flag.gif

[Maggie_T]

Omega, I'm terribly sorry. I deleted your post completely by mistake. :blush:

Please forgive me. I wonder if you would mind posting it again.

[Riverboat]

I keep hearing that Murtha was a decorated Vietnam War veteran. Exactly what decorations did he earn?

[DeclinetoState]

And how did he earn them?

[Riverboat]

I did a little googling and came up with this interesting link:

http://benedictblog.com/archives/2005/11/fisking_prof_ba.php

I have to confess a lot of this goes over my head. Perhaps one of our veterans can figure it out. I'm loathe to question a war veteran and his medals. On the other hand, we all know enough John Kerry's record to be reasonably suspicious when someone like Murtha starts to sound like the editorial page of the NYT.

[Maggie_T]

Did he ever throw them away? :devil:

[Longhorn_Platinum]

Maggie_T:
Omega, I'm terribly sorry. I deleted your post completely by mistake.

:moo: All ya had to do, was go to "Manage", then undelete it.

[Maggie_T]

:moo: All ya had to do, was go to "Manage", then undelete it.


Would it be too late, now? :(

[Pendragon_6]

Maggie: Here is omegatrump's post that was accidentally deleted. From my e-mail notification.

Pendragon, I thank you for your desire to stand up and defend your country. We have an enemy facing us that we all may have to take up arms against before it's over. I know you've heard the stories but I'll tell you any how.

You say they called you a sucker, you got off easy. They called us Baby Killers, and spit on us. There are a lot of us Vietnam Vets, (the ones who actually saw combat) who I've heard is something like 1 out of 6, that have a strong resolve in our gut, that if the government is going to throw a war, then it better be a war, and we better go at it like we are going to destroy the enemy all the way back to his core support. And it better be with a resolve that considers the lives of the troops. And when it is over, the result of our intended effort had better be evident. Some fictitious artificial notion of Democracy will not be sufficient.

Now I am not a DemocRat, and neither am I a Republicrat, but I do think that the slap against Murtha by all the Republicrat cheerleaders, who themselves have never seen combat, and who themselves don't have the slightest concept of how much blood it costs to maintain freedom has become a little unbalanced.

I know it hurts when you think people do not support your conviction of patriotism, and I would say that Murtha may be being used by the leftist anti war crowd, but if the RepublicRats would consider what he said, which I think some of them have, then the balance may be realized. One thing we Vietnam vets will not set idly by for is a return to an endless police action, period. Either we destroy the enemies resolve to fight, at what ever cost to them, that might be, or we concentrate on defending our borders.

It all comes down to Resolve. What will our leaders resolve to do? The dynamics of this war are different than Vietnam was. We have an enemy with no National boundaries, they hide in the civilian population, (that part is the same), their driving motivation is Religion, and the communist are their technical support. I don't believe they will ever be appeased by democracy for any length of time, because of their religion, not because of their communist technical supporters. I hope I am wrong..
***************

[Pendragon_6]

Omega:

I didn't know you served in Vietnam. I thank you for your service, and hope that any angry words I directed your way will be forgiven.

[dPrasse]

Excellent opinion Omega !

Resolve is very important in all wars , but , unlike any othe war the US has "thrown" , our enemy CAN get to us whether we care to participate in the war or not ... they have already landed on our shores and are here ...

While the term "turn-coat" may be too harsh , the appeasers ARE using his "Decotrated Vetean" status to give themselves legitimacy . So , say , if we "opt out " of this War on Terror ??? Say , We lose "Resolve" because of folks like Murtha . What do we get ?

We still have an enemy bent on killing infidels ... that's us .
Our enemy has no "Resolve" problems .

So , in a way , folks like Murtha do reduce our Resolve to win the war that was BROUGHT to us .

I wish "Isolationism " and "Seal our borders " would work , but , I doubt that will ever ever work . We are dependent on the free flow of trade and each and every over-seas Ammerican interest is at risk if our enemy feels the US has lost the resolve to hunt down those whom wage war and KILL them ...

You guys won the war in Vietnam , Washington lost it for you/us with a lack of Resolve. Resolve beat NAZI Gemany , Resolve won the Berlin blockade , Resolve saw the Berlin wall crumble , Resolve saw the Russians beat in Afghanistan .

The lack of Resolve allowed Saddam to "win" a Cease Fire and to continue to allow terrorists to train in his country . Lack of Resolve allowed Bin Lade to slip away 3 times during the BJ administration ...( any coincidence the 2 biggest failures in internation politics happened unde BJ administrations ? lBJ and BJc ?)

This is a war we MUST win ...

Resolve is needed and those attacking that Resolve weaken us .... thus , they become traitors ...

[Maggie_T]

Thank you, Pen.

I apologize again for my klutziness.

[BEST45CAL]

Lee Harvey Oswald, Clayton Lonetree, Scott Ritter, and now...Jack Murtha.:crazy:

[Eagle1]

And how did he earn them?

he was standing on the other side of the fence when kerry tossed them over

[omegatrump]

omegatrump

Absolutely. We should have been on a war footing when this war started like in WWII. The borders should have been sealed. Industry should be pumping out necessary equiptment. A draft to make sure we have the manpower, etc, etc.

I wish I knew why the democrats in DC and the anti-war movement have lost track of who's side their on.

It's a sad thing to behold.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-2/955825/flag.gif

We're not on a war footing yet, Not on a footing sufficient to win this war. You can add the RepublicRats to the DemocRats for having lost sight of whose side they are on.

[omegatrump]

Excellent opinion Omega !

Resolve is very important in all wars , but , unlike any othe war the US has "thrown" , our enemy CAN get to us whether we care to participate in the war or not ... they have already landed on our shores and are here ...

While the term "turn-coat" may be too harsh , the appeasers ARE using his "Decotrated Vetean" status to give themselves legitimacy . So , say , if we "opt out " of this War on Terror ??? Say , We lose "Resolve" because of folks like Murtha . What do we get ?

We still have an enemy bent on killing infidels ... that's us .
Our enemy has no "Resolve" problems .

So , in a way , folks like Murtha do reduce our Resolve to win the war that was BROUGHT to us .

I wish "Isolationism " and "Seal our borders " would work , but , I doubt that will ever ever work . We are dependent on the free flow of trade and each and every over-seas Ammerican interest is at risk if our enemy feels the US has lost the resolve to hunt down those whom wage war and KILL them ...

You guys won the war in Vietnam , Washington lost it for you/us with a lack of Resolve. Resolve beat NAZI Gemany , Resolve won the Berlin blockade , Resolve saw the Berlin wall crumble , Resolve saw the Russians beat in Afghanistan .

The lack of Resolve allowed Saddam to "win" a Cease Fire and to continue to allow terrorists to train in his country . Lack of Resolve allowed Bin Lade to slip away 3 times during the BJ administration ...( any coincidence the 2 biggest failures in internation politics happened unde BJ administrations ? lBJ and BJc ?)

This is a war we MUST win ...

Resolve is needed and those attacking that Resolve weaken us .... thus , they become traitors ...

I understand your position dPraise, and your argument is valid to the extent the leftist America Haters would like to destroy our Resolve.

I say that our Resolve is already weak, Sealing our borders won't win the war by itself. We have an enemy that will never be pacified by democracy. We can't even get our leadership to define the enemy.

There is no difference between the Palestinian Terrorist and Al Quida, we have weakened our position and Israels position in this war by submitting to the so called Road Map fiasco which is in effect a demonstration of weak resolve. This road map we know goes back a couple of administrations, it has Clinton's fingerprints all over it. Of all places to show weakness in the world and this administration chooses Israel. The one place in the world where we should show unbending strength.

The leftist America haters are not as Dependant on Murtha as it's being portrayed. The Iraqi theater of engagement is only temporary at best. We have insurgents crossing our borders now. Virtually all of the other major Muslim countries are standing by to see how we respond now to Iran. Will we spread out for another police action, and another and another? If we occupy Iran, and Syria even, we may not yet have engaged the enemy as we must.

I know it sounds confusing but America is still not resolved to deal with the enemy, and Murtha makes that point. A police action in Iraq falls way short of dealing with this enemy.

and thank you dPraise

[omegatrump]

Omega:

I didn't know you served in Vietnam. I thank you for your service, and hope that any angry words I directed your way will be forgiven.

No problem at all Pendragon 6, believe me I understand. Before we went into Iraq I was saying the very same thing I am saying now.

I have sons, and nephews, and if we are going to have a meaningful war then I would rather go again than to see them go. But if we are going to have another failed police action then I say nobody goes.

My point is, that we must properly assess this enemy, The Gaza giveaway points out that we have not.

[omegatrump]

Omega, I'm terribly sorry. I deleted your post completely by mistake. :blush:

Please forgive me. I wonder if you would mind posting it again.

Maggie, think nothing of it, we all have our momentshttp://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/images/icons/patriot.gif