Should people be allowed to vote on abortion?

[DeclinetoState]

http://blog.sstibbs.com/2006/02/uncivil-discourse-at-ann-coulters.html


Coulter has written in the past about allowing the people to vote on abortion. When it was my turn to ask a question, I disagreed with her position, saying that whether or not it is legal to kill babies should not be up for a vote. It should just be illegal. While allowing a vote on abortion would be preferable to having the judicial branch decree that abortion will be allowed, fundamental issues of morality and human rights cannot and should not be decided by popular vote.

Coulter responded to my point by saying she trusts the American people. Frankly, I do not trust the American people, because I do not trust human beings.

I don't trust the American people because we elected Clinton twice and damn near elected Gore--and far too many people (albeit a minority of voters) wanted Kerry.

[Eagle1]

i see little difference between the morality of a vote by the people and a vote by the representatives of the people

[Native American]

i see little difference between the morality of a vote by the people and a vote by the representatives of the people

I gotta agree with Eagle1 on that one.

Still, the Democrat Party does claim to be "pro-choice", so ultimately the Democrat Party is going to have to come around to supporting the idea of allowing the American People the choice of voting on the issue. And, until the Democrat Party does that, the Democrat Party remains utterly fraudulent.

[USPatriot8320]

I'm a states rights person myself.... In terms of social issues, I feel the public should be allowed a say as to what goes in the their state.. Let society rule, not the politicians.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

:unsmile: I disagree with the "states rights" point of view. Abortion should be illegal in all 50 states. No state should have the right to legalize murder.

[USPatriot8320]

Let the people decide... If they want abortion or assisted suicide, then so be it.. Don't live in that state if you don't like it. And I don't believe that what's good for Texas is good for Ohio and such... We should have more individuality in terms of our states. If one state wants to go completely to the left, let em... And vice versa....

[True Grace]

And I don't believe that what's good for Texas is good for Ohio and such...

Abortion is never "good", whether it is in Texas or Ohio. It is an unconscionable act that needs to be illegal across the board. Babies have just as much right to life in Texas as they do in California or New York or Florida.

[USPatriot8320]

People need to consider this.. Abortion will always be around in some fashion or another... It's far better to have it done in a clinic than a back alley or throwing yourself down the stairs, ect....

[DeclinetoState]

The woman who has a back-alley abortion or throws herself down the stairs is putting herself in no more danger than she's putting the child whom she's about to kill in.

[True Grace]

People need to consider this.. Abortion will always be around in some fashion or another... It's far better to have it done in a clinic than a back alley or throwing yourself down the stairs, ect....

Should we legalize all murder then, since it will always be around in some fashion or another?

[USPatriot8320]

I won't sway and neither will you.... F.C.'ers and I agree on some things and not on others... I'm pro-choice but not abortion on demand... I don't believe it should be outlawed all together... But I also believe in assisted suicide.... I can't explain it to a T so to speak... But in my mind there's a difference between abortion a 3 week old pregnancy and having a partial birth abortion.... When you have to slice open the back of babies head to have the abortion thats murder... But if you take a pill and blocks the pregancy thats different... I only believe in abortion when it's incest, rape or it endanger the woman's health...

[True Grace]

But in my mind there's a difference between abortion a 3 week old pregnancy and having a partial birth abortion....

What's the difference, in your mind?

[USPatriot8320]

In my opinion.... I can see a child in terms of the partial birth abortion, but I can't in a 3 week old pregancy.... I know the agreement, just because the child isn't formed yet doesn't mean it still isn't a child... But I'm standing my ground.... In some cases, not being born is better than being born.... This is mainly from personal experience... I had 2 girls who are close friends of mine, have abortions early on within weeks of the pregancy... They sought my advice and I told them of the pyschological factors and the emotional ones but I also brought up this... Could you give up your child for adoption and if you couldn't, could you support your child... I deplore the people who regularly use abortion as birth control... But I know these two girls, they'll never have another one in their lives...

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Well as a believer in original intent, I believe this issue has ALREADY been solved, and yet the answer remains ignored.

It is written into the founding document of this country ....

"We hold these truths1 to be self-evident2, that all men3 are created equal4, that they are endowed by their Creator5 with certain6 unalienable7 Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
The Declaration of Independence

It is established fact, it is written, it is an integral and specific part of the founding of this country -- to break it down:

The rights above are 1) truth, 2) self-evident, 3) concern all men (mankind), 4) equal, 5) endowed by a Creator, 6) certain, and 7) unalienable. In other words they are completely understood, recognized, agreed upon, and individually specific. The first right listed is that of "Life." It can ONLY mean the right of existence, BECAUSE the other two rights deal with HOW we have a right to live that existence ... with liberty, and with the ability to pursue happiness (we are not granted the right TO happiness).

Ergo, each and every person's "right to life" (right to exist) is first and foremost before all other rights and extended equally to all, it is endowed by a Creator NOT man and therefore it is not man's to negate for another, it applies to ALL human life, it is individual specific, and is NOT negated by the right to "pursue happiness" (which could be claimed by the (so-called) "mother."

One final note, the DoE precedes the Constitution, SO if it is not specifically listed IN the Constitution, that means it was already agreed upon and settled PRIOR to the Constitution, and not forseen that anybody would EVER question or refute it.

The issue of abortion is a non-issue -- it is a procedure that denies a right to life, therefore it should not be open up for debate, interpretation, or vote. Abortion should be illegal in all 50 states in accordance with the unalienable, self-evident, right to life each person is granted certainly and equally by their Creator.

[USPatriot8320]

Ok, I'll be the rebel rouser.... If estimates are correct, then for the sake of arguement.... There were 45 million abortions performed.... If all of those children ended up in the foster or adoption care system.... Would we then be screaming about the costs associated with such things? Another thing is, we're 6.5 billion strong.... Is every life really needed and precious at this point? If you don't believe in the end times nor the rapture, then how will we eventually feed ourselves? And if we cure everything, where will we live? How will we survive?

[UnkHiram]

USPat

Those are bogus arguments and you know it. If Abortion had never been legalized then it would not have become a sure fire birth control device. People would have been more carefull, maybe even kept their pants zipped.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Ok, I'll be the rebel rouser.... If estimates are correct, then for the sake of arguement.... There were 45 million abortions performed.... If all of those children ended up in the foster or adoption care system.... Would we then be screaming about the costs associated with such things? Another thing is, we're 6.5 billion strong.... Is every life really needed and precious at this point? If you don't believe in the end times nor the rapture, then how will we eventually feed ourselves? And if we cure everything, where will we live? How will we survive?

Well first, not all of those 45 million abortions occurred on the same day ... or even the same year, or decades, so they wouldn't all be in the system(s) at the same time. They would not all be flooding the foster or adoption care system either, many might have been kept. Also, you are presupposing that had abortion remained illegal, there still would have been those 45 million pregnancies (represented by the 45 million abortions).

A hypothetical, let's say in the year after Rowe V.Wade 1000 babies were aborted, the second 3000, the third 5000. Now we get in a time machine, we go back to the first year and we alter the timeline, Rowe v.Wade never reaches the SCOTUS, and abortion remains illegal. Do you STILL think there would be those 1000 pregnancies? The 3000? The 5000? I would venture to guess that of the people who did get pregant in the first scenario (after RvW), half or less would NOT have ever gotten pregnant because they would have done everything to prevent pregnancy knowing there was no "option" other than 1) back-alley or self-induced abortion, 2) adoption, 3) raising it their self, or 4) suicide.

The era of "free-love" PLUS the existence of legalized abortion combined to create those 45 million abortions. Had the trend been to continue sexual abstinence prior to marriage, supporting pregnancy within marriage, and stigma attached to unwed/out-wedlock/under-age pregnancy, I do not believe their would have been the creation of those 45 million additional people.

Yes, each and every life is precious. I would dare someone look into the face of a child created under "bad" circumstances and tell them they weren't worth being born. We do not have crystal balls, we cannot predict who will have it bad, who will suffer, who will suffer or die early from disease, who will be disadvantaged, impoverished, or mentally unstable. There has been plenty of cases of people coming from absolutely horrible circunstances who rose up to become phenomenal human beings -- were they really not worth being born, because of the circumstance(s) they come from?

Whether one disbelieves in the "end times" or the Rapture is irrelevent -- it's going to happen despite their belief or disbelief. To worry about such things as cures and survival is a non-issue, and merely only fear-mongering.

[Native American]

People need to consider this.. Abortion will always be around in some fashion or another... It's far better to have it done in a clinic than a back alley or throwing yourself down the stairs, ect....

Sure, just like rape and murder will always be around. But that's not a good argument for making rape and murder legal, you see.

[S-T]

I'm a states rights person myself.... In terms of social issues, I feel the public should be allowed a say as to what goes in the their state.. Let society rule, not the politicians. Longhorn pretty much summed up my position in the post following yours, but I'll repeat it anyway. No state legislature or group of voters should ever get to decide whether or not it should be legal to kill people. We need some real men in Washington who will properly interpret the 14th Amendment and include the unborn in the "equal protection" clause when it comes to murder.
Abortion is never "good", whether it is in Texas or Ohio. It is an unconscionable act that needs to be illegal across the board. Babies have just as much right to life in Texas as they do in California or New York or Florida. I can barely type because I broke several bones in both hands applauding so hard.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8864/unbornbaby2jq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

People need to consider this.. Abortion will always be around in some fashion or another I love this argument. Murder will always be around, and rape will always be around. Let's just legalize both. http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/images/icons/rollingeyes.gif
Another thing is, we're 6.5 billion strong.... Is every life really needed and precious at this point? Yes, every INNOCENT life is "needed and precious".

But if you are really concerned about overpopulation, I suggest you go kill yourself now to help solve the problem. Somehow, the Leftists who whine about how there are too many people never take the obvious step to help reduce the population.

[Maggie_T]

Coulter responded to my point by saying she trusts the American people. Frankly, I do not trust the American people, because I do not trust human beings.

I don't trust the American people because we elected Clinton twice and damn near elected Gore--and far too many people (albeit a minority of voters) wanted Kerry.--Decline

Agreed. But I simply say I don't trust people. People are human therefore, fallible (yes, myself included).

Lately, people will vote for whatever is easier, more convenient. Abortion falls in that category. It's the "What's in it for me?" "Me, first" mentality that liberals have made so prevalent.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[dajoga]

If SCOTUS eventually overturns Roe v. Wade, the matter will go back to the individual states. I lived in Michigan during the '72 election and we voted 2-1 against abortion on demand, but the following January we were told that we were all stupid idiots b/c we didn't know the "law."

[Melz]

Although I don't advocate at all a Federal Law which overturns state's rights, I believe in this case I relent. There should be a Federal law, never to be handed to the states (judges or citizens) which outlaws abortion for good, forever. Allowing ANYONE to decide what life is viable, or expendable, is a slippery slope in itself.

Allowing the murder of the most defenseless of our citizens is an abhhoration.

[star2589]

I don't trust the American people because we elected Clinton twice and damn near elected Gore--and far too many people (albeit a minority of voters) wanted Kerry.

but what's the alternative? on something like abortion, voting for representatives isnt any better.

[DeclinetoState]

We're damned no matter what we do, I guess. Millions of little babies have been damned by Roe v. Wade as well as pro-abortion laws passed prior to the SCOTUS's harebrained ruling.