We are winning in Iraq, let's not lose it here. V. D. Hanson

[Etaoin]

At War With Ourselves
We're winning in Iraq. Let's not lose at home.
BY VICTOR DAVIS HANSON
Wednesday, March 1, 2006 12:01 a.m. EST
Last week the golden dome of the Askariya shrine in Samarra was blown apart. Sectarian riots followed, and reprisals and deaths ensued. Thugs and criminals came out of the woodwork to foment further violence. But instead of the apocalypse of an ensuing civil war, a curfew was enforced. Iraqi security forces stepped in with some success. Shaken Sunni and Shiite leaders appeared on television to urge restraint, and there appeared at least the semblance of reconciliation that may soon presage a viable coalition government.
But here at home you would have thought that our own capitol dome had exploded. Indeed, Americans more than the Iraqis needed such advice for calm to quiet our own frenzy. Almost before the golden shards of the mosque hit the pavement, pundits wrote off the war as lost--as we heard the tired metaphors of "final straw" and "camel's back" mindlessly repeated. The long-anticipated civil strife among Shiites and Sunnis, we were assured, was not merely imminent, but already well upon us. Then the great civil war sort of fizzled out; our own frenzy subsided; and now exhausted we await next week's new prescription of doom--apparently the hyped-up story of Arabs at our ports. That the Iraqi security forces are becoming bigger and better, that we have witnessed three successful elections, and that hundreds of brave American soldiers have died to get us to the brink of seeing an Iraqi government emerge was forgotten in a 24-hour news cycle.

THE REST (http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008030)

[get_involved]

Winning in Iraq? LOL! Yeah and we can still win in Vietnam!

[Naturalized-Texan]

Winning in Iraq? LOL! Yeah and we can still win in Vietnam!
If you lefties weren't dividing the country by supporting the terrorists, the Iraq operation of the War on Terror would have been won at least a year ago.

[ldb83]

I don't even want to argue about this anymore. We'll know in 10 to 20 years what to really think about this war. If the Middle East becomes a big peaceful democratic place, I'll stand corrected. If we're attacked again or still trembling from the threat of terrorism and Iraq is still filled with complete disorder and corruption, I'll say I told you so.

But winning and losing a war anymore is in the eye of the beholder. If we want to insist that we're losing, we can always complain about casualties, money thrown into this effort, Osama bin... what's his name again?, areas where we've made no progress, etc. If we insist on pretending we won or are winning, we can at least just change the premise and justification for the war. That's been done plenty of times already.

[Naturalized-Texan]

I don't even want to argue about this anymore. We'll know in 10 to 20 years what to really think about this war. If the Middle East becomes a big peaceful democratic place, I'll stand corrected. If we're attacked again or still trembling from the threat of terrorism and Iraq is still filled with complete disorder and corruption, I'll say I told you so.

But winning and losing a war anymore is in the eye of the beholder. If we want to insist that we're losing, we can always complain about casualties, money thrown into this effort, Osama bin... what's his name again?, areas where we've made no progress, etc. If we insist on pretending we won or are winning, we can at least just change the premise and justification for the war. That's been done plenty of times already.
Of course, you know that after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, we had no choice but to fight the War on Terror. Now that the war was forced upon us, we have no choice but to win it. That is not arguable.

[BuckeyeMike]

Of course its not arguable...............................but they will!!!!

[Etaoin]

Winning in Iraq? LOL! Yeah and we can still win in Vietnam!

We won in Viet-nam, but we lost in the streets of Berkeley and in the Congress! Traitors and seditionists were promoted in the media, and there was no alternative to the traitorious MSM.

Not just my opinion, but the stated opinion of General Giap of the North Vietnamese Army.

[Melz]

Oh now tell me you are not this extremist, that you would actually do this in wake of another attack:

"If we're attacked again or still trembling from the threat of terrorism and Iraq is still filled with complete disorder and corruption, I'll say I told you so."

Please tell me that would not be how you would react..although I suspect many many liberals would be of that reaction, dancing in the streets along with the terrorist supporters.

No one told Clinton supporters "I told you so," after 9/11, knowing he should have done something about the situation whilst he was in office. In fact, the only President who has actually taken a stand against terrorism is our current President.

Of course, those folks still don't think anything should have been done, we should have just let Saddam refuse to abide by the provisions given to him and hope that he was lying about his WMDs.

I really hope you would not react like that if another attack happened, that is really my main point.

[DoctorDoom]

If we lose in Iraq, it will be entirely due to the treasonous marching morons who strut down Main Street giving encouragement and moral support to the enemy ... just like those unwashed, unshaved, lice-infested assholes did during the Nam conflict.

In a recent interview published in The Wall Street Journal, former Colonel Bui Tin who served on the general staff of the North Vietnamese Army and received the unconditional surrender of South Vietnam on April 30,1975, confirmed the American Tet 1968 military victory: "Our loses were staggering and a complete surprise. Giap later told me that Tet had been a military defeat, though we had gained the planned political advantages when Johnson agreed to negotiate and did not run for reelection. The second and third waves in May and September were, in retrospect, mistakes. Our forces in the South were nearly wiped out by all the fighting in 1968. It took us until 1971 to reestablish our presence, but we had to use North Vietnamese troops as local guerrillas. If the American forces had not begun to withdraw under Nixon in 1969, they could have punished us severely. We suffered badly in 1969 and 1970 as it was."

On strategy: "If Johnson had granted Westmoreland's requests to enter Laos and block the Ho Chi Minh trail, Hanoi could not have won the war. It was the only way we could bring sufficient military power to bear on the fighting in the South. Building and maintaining the trail was a huge effort involving tens of thousands of soldiers, drivers, repair teams, medical stations, communication units, etc. Our operations were never compromised by attacks on the trail. At times, accurate B-52 strikes would cause real damage, but we put so much in at the top of the trail that enough men and weapons to prolong the war always came out the bottom. If all the bombing had been concentrated at one time, it would have hurt our efforts. But the bombing was expanded in slow stages under Johnson and it didn't worry us. We had plenty of time to prepare alternative routes and facilities. We always had stockpiles of rice ready to feed the people for months if a harvest was damaged. The Soviets bought rice from Thailand for us.

And the left: "Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9AM to follow the growth of the antiwar movement. Visits to Hanoi by Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war and would struggle along with us ... those people represented the conscience of America ....part of it's war-making capability, and we were turning that power in our favor."Colonel Bui Tin (http://www.lcompanyranger.com/weapons/colonelbuitinpage.htm)

THAT and ONLY THAT caused us to fail in Vietnam. Fonda, Clark and Kerry should have been shot as traitors, and the idiots in the streets should have been dealt with severely and unrelentingly. And in our time, the leftist imbeciles are desperately trying for a repeat performance. It's time to chlorinate the gene pool, starting with the treasonous scum in DC.

[DoctorDoom]

I really hope you would not react like that if another attack happened, that is really my main point.I have no doubt that the PoS would high-five every jubilant muzzie he could find.

[DesertFox]

Boy, the Doc just exposed you Lefties for complete know-nothings. Either learn from history or STFU on issues you know nothing about.