S. Dakota legislature considers women incompetent to make decisions - M. Ivins [Archive]

DeclinetoState

03-10-2006, 12:41 AM

AUSTIN, Texas -- South Dakota is so rarely found on the leading edge of the far out, the wiggy, the California-esque. But it has now staked its claim. First to Outlaw Abortion This Century. The state legislature of South Dakota, in all its wisdom and majesty, a legislature comprised of sons and daughters of the soil from Aberdeen to Zell, have usurped the right of the women of that state to decide whether or not to bear the child of an unwanted pregnancy. THEY will decide. Women will do what they decide.

These towering solons, representing citizens from the great cosmopolitan centers of Rapid City and Sioux Falls to the bosky dells near Yankton, are noted for their sagacity and understanding. When you think "enlightenment," the first thing that comes to your mind is "the South Dakota Legislature," right?

As well it might. The purpose of the law is to force a decision from the United States Supreme Court, where the appointments of John Roberts and Sam Alito have now shored up the anti-choice forces.

The South Dakota Legislature has made it a crime for a doctor to perform an abortion under any circumstances except to save the life of the mother. There are no exceptions for rape, incest or to preserve the health of the mother. Should this strike you as hard cheese, State Sen. Bill Napoli, R-Rapid City, explains how rape and incest could be exceptions under the "life" clause. Napoli believes most abortions are performed for "convenience," but he told "The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer" about how he thinks a "real-life example" of the exception could be invoked:

"A real-life description to me would be a rape victim, brutally raped, savaged. The girl was a virgin. She was religious. She planned on saving her virginity until she was married. She was brutalized and raped, sodomized as bad as you can possibly make it, and is impregnated. I mean, that girl, could be so messed up, physically and psychologically, that carrying that child could very well threaten her life."

Please stop and reread the paragraph above. See? Clearly Napoli's exception would not apply to the South Dakota woman also interviewed by the NewsHour. "Michelle" is in her 20s, has a low-paying job and two children. And says she simply cannot afford a third. She drove five hours to the state's only abortion clinic.

"It was difficult when I found out I was pregnant. I was saddened because I knew that I'd probably have to make this decision. Like I said, I have two children, so I look into their eyes and I love them. It's been difficult, you know, it's not easy. And I don't think it's, you know, ever easy on a woman, but we need that choice."

Click on http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?columnsName=miv for more.

Riverboat

03-10-2006, 12:03 PM

Click on http://www.creators.com/opinion_show...olumnsName=miv for more. Sorry, but I have to ask this question -

WHY?

Shorty

03-10-2006, 12:57 PM

Molly Ivins is a hag.

Native American

03-10-2006, 01:35 PM

"Michelle" is in her 20s, has a low-paying job and two children. And says she simply cannot afford a third. She drove five hours to the state's only abortion clinic.

"It was difficult when I found out I was pregnant. I was saddened because I knew that I'd probably have to make this decision. Like I said, I have two children, so I look into their eyes and I love them. It's been difficult, you know, it's not easy. And I don't think it's, you know, ever easy on a woman, but we need that choice."

Golly, "Michelle" has two kids she allowed to live, had a third on the way that she decided to kill, and still she doesn't know how she became pregnant all those times, and actually thinks it was through no choice of her own??

Poor "Michelle" apparently has never had the "birds and the bees" explained to her, has never heard of a condom, has never heard of "The Pill", has never understood that the things she chooses to do end up "making babies", and has always chosen to believe her "lovers" when they told her, "Don't worry Baby, I'll pull out in time."

So obviously she has never had a choice in the matter....

And people such as Molly key into that "lack of a choice" for the poor "Michelles" of the country and it's on that basis that lil' Molly has climbed up on her soapbox once again.....

Rhino

03-10-2006, 01:40 PM

.....and has always chosen to believe her "lovers" when they told her, "Don't worry Baby, I'll pull out in time.".....That don't work anyway.

Native American

03-10-2006, 01:45 PM

It does, if it's in time.

Sounds like Michelle repeatedly chooses to skate on thin ice, then whines pathetically and wants to take it out on someone else by killing them when the ice breaks and she gets wet.

And of course Molly Ivan encourages her to do just that.

The young woman (24) who owns a little hair salon in a nearby town and who cuts my hair got herself pregnant. But unlike whining "Michelle", she did the decent thing and allowed the innocent human being in her womb to live, rather than take her irresponsiblity out on him. So when I go for my haircut, there's the little guy, in a playpen right in her salon, with clean clothes, food to eat, and a smile on his cute little face.

People like "Michelle" are disgusting and loathsome human beings.

Rhino

03-10-2006, 01:47 PM

It does, if it's in time.No, it doesn't, but the reason why is a bit graphic for discussion here. Suffice it to say that not everything comes out at the end.

Native American

03-10-2006, 01:54 PM

No, it doesn't, but the reason why is a bit graphic for discussion here. Suffice it to say that not everything comes out at the end.

I'm quite familiar with the "graphics", I assure you. Nevertheless, it's a very effective method, if it's done in time. Therein lies the problem however, for reasons I won't go into, due to their "graphical nature".

"Michelle" has made a whole host of choices, so Molly Ivans is full of crap with her dishonest rhetoric about "choice", and "Michelle" is a loathsome, disgusting human being for wanting to take her irresponsibility out on someone else by killing them.

Rhino

03-10-2006, 02:00 PM

I'm quite familiar with the "graphics", I assure you. Nevertheless, it's a very effective method, if it's done in time. Therein lies the problem however, for reasons I won't go into, due to their "graphical nature".Time has nothing to do with it. We may very well just have different definitions of "effective". Even the most generous estimates only give withdrawal an 80% success rate. That's not effective in my book, and most estimates are lower than that anyway.

"Michelle" has made a whole host of choices, so Molly Ivans is full of crap with her dishonest rhetoric about "choice", and "Michelle" is a loathsome, disgusting human being for wanting to take her irresponsibility out on someone else by killing them.I had the same reaction as you. She laments not having a choice, but she made her choice when she got pregnant in the first place.

DesertFox

03-10-2006, 02:16 PM

It's all the guy's fault. When she wanted to copulate, he shoulda produced a coupla vibrators and the happy couple coulda, uh, got down on some good vibrations.

Shoot him.

Rhino

03-10-2006, 02:20 PM

It's all the guy's fault.But, if we can prove this is Bush's fault, will he have parental rights?

DesertFox

03-10-2006, 02:26 PM

Clearly we need legal advice on this important question.

Native American

03-10-2006, 03:04 PM

We may very well just have different definitions of "effective". Even the most generous estimates only give withdrawal an 80% success rate. That's not effective in my book, and most estimates are lower than that anyway.

80% is pretty effective! And "the pill" is maybe only around 95% effective, depending on how carefully that method is followed. Same is the case with "the withdrawal method" - it depends on how carefully that method is followed. Ditto for condoms, diaphragms, jellies, foams, etc. etc. etc.

I had the same reaction as you. She laments not having a choice, but she made her choice when she got pregnant in the first place.

Indeed, she made multiple choices towards becoming pregnant! So her subsequent decision to take her irresponsiblity out on someone else by killing them makes her a truly loathsome and disgusting human being.

brilliantLiberal

03-10-2006, 07:04 PM

80% is pretty effective! And "the pill" is maybe only around 95% effective, depending on how carefully that method is followed. Same is the case with "the withdrawal method" - it depends on how carefully that method is followed.

"Typical Use" rates mean that the method either was not always used correctly or was not used with every act of sexual intercourse (e.g., sometimes forgot to take a birth control pill as directed and became pregnant), or was used correctly but failed anyway.

"Lowest Expected" rates mean that the method was always used correctly with every act of sexual intercourse but failed anyway (e.g., always took a birth control pill as directed but still became pregnant).

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=5 width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH>Method</TH><TH>Typical Use Rate of Pregnancy</TH><TH>Lowest Expected Rate of Pregnancy</TH></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>Sterilization:</TD></TR><TR><TD> Male Sterilization</TD><TD align=middle>0.15%</TD><TD align=middle>0.1%</TD></TR><TR><TD> Female Sterilization</TD><TD align=middle>0.5%</TD><TD align=middle>0.5%</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>Hormonal Methods:</TD></TR><TR><TD> Implant (Norplant)</TD><TD align=middle>0.09%</TD><TD align=middle>0.09%</TD></TR><TR><TD> Hormone Shot (Depo-Provera) <TD align=middle>0.3% <TD align=middle>0.3%</TD></TR><TR><TD> Combined Pill (Estrogen/Progestin) <TD align=middle>5% <TD align=middle>0.1%</TD></TR><TR><TD> Minipill (Progestin only) <TD align=middle>5% <TD align=middle>0.5%</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>Intrauterine Devices (IUDs):</TD></TR><TR><TD> Copper T <TD align=middle>0.8% <TD align=middle>0.6%</TD></TR><TR><TD> Progesterone T <TD align=middle>2% <TD align=middle>1.5%</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>Barrier Methods:</TD></TR><TR><TD> Male Latex Condom<SUP>1</SUP> <TD align=middle>14% <TD align=middle>3%</TD></TR><TR><TD> Diaphragm<SUP>2</SUP> <TD align=middle>20% <TD align=middle>6%</TD></TR><TR><TD> Vaginal Sponge (no previous births)<SUP>3</SUP> <TD align=middle>20% <TD align=middle>9%</TD></TR><TR><TD> Vaginal Sponge (previous births)<SUP>3</SUP> <TD align=middle>40% <TD align=middle>20%</TD></TR><TR><TD> Cervical Cap (no previous births)<SUP>2</SUP> <TD align=middle>20% <TD align=middle>9%</TD></TR><TR><TD> Cervical Cap (previous births)<SUP>2</SUP> <TD align=middle>40% <TD align=middle>26%</TD></TR><TR><TD> Female Condom <TD align=middle>21% <TD align=middle>5% </TD></TR><TR><TD>Spermicide: (gel, foam, suppository, film) <TD align=middle>26% <TD align=middle>6%</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>Natural Methods:</TD></TR><TR><TD> Withdrawal <TD align=middle>19% <TD align=middle>4%</TD></TR><TR><TD> Natural Family Planning
(calendar, temperature, cervical mucus) <TD align=middle>25% <TD align=middle>1-9%</TD></TR><TR><TD>No Method: <TD align=middle>85% <TD align=middle>85%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>1 Used Without Spermicide
2 Used With Spermicide
3 Contains Spermicide

FYI, semen containing sperm is present LONG before ejaculation.

Melz

03-10-2006, 07:34 PM

From the quote that NA quoted:

""Michelle" is in her 20s, has a low-paying job and two children. And says she simply cannot afford a third. She drove five hours to the state's only abortion clinic.

"It was difficult when I found out I was pregnant. I was saddened because I knew that I'd probably have to make this decision. Like I said, I have two children, so I look into their eyes and I love them. It's been difficult, you know, it's not easy. And I don't think it's, you know, ever easy on a woman, but we need that choice."

This is the example to use? From the "legal but rare" party? From the party that claims how adversely it would affect women of rape and those with dangers to themselves in cases of pregnancy? This moron chooses to use a case of some idiot my tax dollars support who can't keep her whore legs together?

What kind of example is that? This should be a case AGAINST abortion. Every human should be able to see that "if you play, you pay" and such other tired and old phrases to describe the tired and old MAJORITY of abortions.

Keep defending the killing of babies bitch. Keep doing it loudly. Let the world hear what a heartless cold **** you are Molly.

dcanner

03-10-2006, 07:45 PM

why do these people pretend they never heard of adoption? good grief.

DesertFox

03-10-2006, 08:14 PM

Hey, Michelle? When he, uh, shoots, it isn't pee. That's what gets you preggers, you stupid bitch.

jAk

03-10-2006, 08:19 PM

Adoption is a poor choice. Send your children into a ****ed up system, so they can grow up and leach on the system. Yeah, lets try it.

Abortion is a great option. It isn't murder.

DesertFox

03-10-2006, 08:24 PM

Adoption is a legitimate option.

Abortion is a lousy option. It's murder.

Melz

03-10-2006, 08:27 PM

Adoption is a poor choice. Send your children into a ****ed up system, so they can grow up and leach on the system. Yeah, lets try it.

Abortion is a great option. It isn't murder.

Then what, pray tell, is it? Besides an "option"
???????????????

the ending of life with premeditation is murder. Abortion is ending a life, someone had to premeditate this action. Tis murder.

Gimme your definition. I was hoping you were being sarcastic/facetious (can't spell that word), and I am still hoping so.

DesertFox

03-10-2006, 08:30 PM

(You spelled it right)

Melz

03-10-2006, 08:52 PM

Well that rarely happens, so thank you DF for the verification of the spellification!

DesertFox

03-10-2006, 08:57 PM

:patriot:

Truth_Hunter

03-10-2006, 09:51 PM

Please stop and reread the paragraph above. See? Clearly Napoli's exception would not apply to the South Dakota woman also interviewed by the NewsHour. "Michelle" is in her 20s, has a low-paying job and two children. And says she simply cannot afford a third. She drove five hours to the state's only abortion clinic.

"It was difficult when I found out I was pregnant. I was saddened because I knew that I'd probably have to make this decision. Like I said, I have two children, so I look into their eyes and I love them. It's been difficult, you know, it's not easy. And I don't think it's, you know, ever easy on a woman, but we need that choice."

I enter into the record that single motherhood is the root cause of this abortion.

sunsettommy

03-10-2006, 10:21 PM

I enter into the record that single motherhood is the root cause of this abortion.

Interesting supposition.

Can you support the root cause claim?

DeclinetoState

03-10-2006, 10:33 PM

Adoption is a poor choice. Send your children into a ****ed up system, so they can grow up and leach on the system. Yeah, lets try it.

Abortion is a great option. It isn't murder.

And jAk is a troll. What more evidence do you need?

jAk

03-11-2006, 06:34 AM

And jAk is a troll. What more evidence do you need?

Because I disagree on an issue? Sorry bud, but not everyone on this planet is 100% with every single one of your beliefs. Get used to it.

Native American

03-11-2006, 06:44 AM

"Typical Use" rates mean that the method either was not always used correctly or was not used with every act of sexual intercourse (e.g., sometimes forgot to take a birth control pill as directed and became pregnant), or was used correctly but failed anyway.

"Lowest Expected" rates mean that the method was always used correctly with every act of sexual intercourse but failed anyway (e.g., always took a birth control pill as directed but still became pregnant).

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=5 width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH>Method</TH><TH>Typical Use Rate of Pregnancy</TH><TH>Lowest Expected Rate of Pregnancy</TH></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>Sterilization:</TD></TR><TR><TD>Male Sterilization</TD><TD align=middle>0.15%</TD><TD align=middle>0.1%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Female Sterilization</TD><TD align=middle>0.5%</TD><TD align=middle>0.5%</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>Hormonal Methods:</TD></TR><TR><TD>Implant (Norplant)</TD><TD align=middle>0.09%</TD><TD align=middle>0.09%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Hormone Shot (Depo-Provera) <TD align=middle>0.3% <TD align=middle>0.3%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Combined Pill (Estrogen/Progestin) <TD align=middle>5% <TD align=middle>0.1%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Minipill (Progestin only) <TD align=middle>5% <TD align=middle>0.5%</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>Intrauterine Devices (IUDs):</TD></TR><TR><TD>Copper T <TD align=middle>0.8% <TD align=middle>0.6%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Progesterone T <TD align=middle>2% <TD align=middle>1.5%</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>Barrier Methods:</TD></TR><TR><TD>Male Latex Condom<SUP>1</SUP> <TD align=middle>14% <TD align=middle>3%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Diaphragm<SUP>2</SUP> <TD align=middle>20% <TD align=middle>6%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Vaginal Sponge (no previous births)<SUP>3</SUP> <TD align=middle>20% <TD align=middle>9%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Vaginal Sponge (previous births)<SUP>3</SUP> <TD align=middle>40% <TD align=middle>20%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Cervical Cap (no previous births)<SUP>2</SUP> <TD align=middle>20% <TD align=middle>9%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Cervical Cap (previous births)<SUP>2</SUP> <TD align=middle>40% <TD align=middle>26%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Female Condom <TD align=middle>21% <TD align=middle>5% </TD></TR><TR><TD>Spermicide: (gel, foam, suppository, film) <TD align=middle>26% <TD align=middle>6%</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>Natural Methods:</TD></TR><TR><TD>Withdrawal <TD align=middle>19% <TD align=middle>4%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Natural Family Planning
(calendar, temperature, cervical mucus)

<TD align=middle>25% <TD align=middle>1-9%</TD></TR><TR><TD>No Method: <TD align=middle>85% <TD align=middle>85%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>1 Used Without Spermicide
2 Used With Spermicide
3 Contains Spermicide

FYI, semen containing sperm is present LONG before ejaculation.

Please note that withdrawal, diaphragms, and condoms (which the pro-abortion crowd is always pushing, as opposed to abstinence) have approximately the same success rate under typical usage!

IOW, withdrawal typically works about as well as does using a condom, the method being taught currently in our taxpayer-funded and government-run schools!!

Abstinence (which the liberals oppose teaching) works even better.

Yet apparently dumb "Michelle" is unaware of any of those methods, and so she falls mindless prey to the pro-abortion Molly Ivans of the world, and opts instead to simply kill her own children, rather than exercise a more intelligent (and more humane!) choice.

Native American

03-11-2006, 06:48 AM

Abortion is a great option. It isn't murder.

So you mean to tell us you actually think the kid comes out of it alive?

ooh_child

03-11-2006, 07:28 AM

I don't oppose teaching abstinence, as long as all other forms of birth control are taught as well. Teenage pregnancy & abortion rates have dropped dramatically since the mid 80s, & education programs have a lot to do with this decline.

I say, let's keep up the education of our young people, to eliminate the need for those kinds of abortions as much as possible!

MHB

Native American

03-11-2006, 07:32 AM

I say, let's keep up the education of our young people, to eliminate the need for those kinds of abortions as much as possible!

MHB

I say, let's outlaw abortion, just as we have outlawed other forms of putting innocent human beings to death.

Republican_Legion

03-11-2006, 08:30 AM

And jAk is a troll. What more evidence do you need?

I agree, he came here to do nothing but worship abortion in front of us.
And when is someone gonna get rid of that FSTDTer 'pooh_child'.

Native American

03-11-2006, 10:04 AM

I agree, he came here to do nothing but worship abortion in front of us.
And when is someone gonna get rid of that FSTDTer 'pooh_child'.

Simpler yet (and probably more enjoyable) is to defeat the FSTDT's when they show up here to debate an issue. Libs, are you both well know, are pretty intellectually inadequate when it comes to defending their religious ideologies, such as abortion.

jAk

03-11-2006, 10:20 AM

Abortion is probably one of the only issues I disagree with conservatives on. Everything else like gay marriage, taxes, etc I support.

The simple thing for you guys to do is accept the fact that not everyone agrees with you. I support abortion. I don't see what the big deal is. I also don't see how it is murder when you destroy a parasite that isn't even bigger than my pinky.

Sorry, but I'd rather support a child when I have the money to do so. Sex is not only for creation, it is for pleasure too. I am not going to let the possibility of a child stop me from doing what I enjoy. Responsible? No. But the technology exists to remove the fetus, so why not?

Native American

03-11-2006, 10:25 AM

The simple thing for you guys to do is accept the fact that not everyone agrees with you. I support abortion. I don't see what the big deal is. I also don't see how it is murder when you destroy a parasite that isn't even bigger than my pinky.

The fact that you regard human children as, quote, "parasites" is quite telling....

DesertFox

03-11-2006, 10:28 AM

jAk, to see what "the big deal is" about abortion, consider it in its most heinous form -- partial birth abortion. If you don't know what's involved, I'll tell you.

The problem with any kind of legal abortion is that abortion proponents won't let it be at that. They shrilly insist that any kind of abortion whatsoever is a "right," even partial birth abortion.

If they would leave it at the first month, or even the first two months, I would leave the issue alone. But they won't.

HomeschoolrsRUs

03-11-2006, 10:45 AM

Abortion is probably one of the only issues I disagree with conservatives on.

If that is true, then it's the only thing you're wrong about. (But I suspect that really isn't the only one, :smirky:.)

Everything else like gay marriage, taxes, etc I support

Hmmm, the majority of us conservatives do NOT support homosexual marriage, taxes, etc. So, I guess we do disagree on other things after all, http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/images/icons/biggrin.gif.)

The simple thing for you guys to do is accept the fact that not everyone agrees with you.

I suggest you take your own advice, :thumb: .

I support abortion.

As a former fetus, I do not.

I don't see what the big deal is.

Then I suggest you go see an ultrasound of a preborn child in various stages of development.

I also don't see how it is murder when you destroy a parasite that isn't even bigger than my pinky.

Well, at the stage most abortions take place, that "parasite" has a heart beat, brain waves, and a unique individual human identity separate from that of the mother/host.

Do you agree that parasite is human? If not, please tell me what kind of entity is it?

Do you agree that parasite is life? If not, when does it become "alive"?

Human life has an innate, inherent, intrisic value, and it's existence was recognized in the founding document of this country (remember the "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?)

Sorry, but I'd rather support a child when I have the money to do so.

You don't think we would rather those children be CONCEIVED and born when the parents have the money to support them? That's EXACTLY what we want -- responsibility PRIOR to conception. In other words, if you can't support a child, don't have sex.

Sex is not only for creation, it is for pleasure too.

Wrong. Sex is not for pleasure, that is only a wonderful perk. Sex is for procreation, period. IF one wants to have sex, they must realize that a responsibility comes along with it, that being, they do so at the risk of a pregnancy occurring (no matter what kind of "safer sex" method they use).

I am not going to let the possibility of a child stop me from doing what I enjoy.

Then you would rather others pay for your indescretions, mistakes, and errors. Good to keep in mind ... everyone that deals with you should be aware of this character flaw. Selfishness is not a virtue.

Responsible? No.

You got that right!

But the technology exists to remove the fetus, so why not?

Yeah, but your brain existed first -- why not exercise it, along with self-control so that another doesn't have to pay for your selfishness. Otherwise, you should be responsible for your actions, actions have consequences, just because something is out of sight doesn't mean it will be out of mind.

Are you male?

jAk

03-11-2006, 10:54 AM

If that is true, then it's the only thing you're wrong about. (But I suspect that really isn't the only one, :smirky:.)

Hmmm, the majority of us conservatives do NOT support homosexual marriage, taxes, etc. So, I guess we do disagree on other things after all, http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/images/icons/biggrin.gif.)

I suggest you take your own advice, :thumb: .

As a former fetus, I do not.

Then I suggest you go see an ultrasound of a preborn child in various stages of development.

Well, at the stage most abortions take place, that "parasite" has a heart beat, brain waves, and a unique individual human identity separate from that of the mother/host.

Do you agree that parasite is human? If not, please tell me what kind of entity is it?

Do you agree that parasite is life? If not, when does it become "alive"?

Human life has an innate, inherent, intrisic value, and it's existence was recognized in the founding document of this country (remember the "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?)

You don't think we would rather those children be CONCEIVED and born when the parents have the money to support them? That's EXACTLY what we want -- responsibility PRIOR to conception. In other words, if you can't support a child, don't have sex.

Wrong. Sex is not for pleasure, that is only a wonderful perk. Sex is for procreation, period. IF one wants to have sex, they must realize that a responsibility comes along with it, that being, they do so at the risk of a pregnancy occurring (no matter what kind of "safer sex" method they use).

Then you would rather others pay for your indescretions, mistakes, and errors. Good to keep in mind ... everyone that deals with you should be aware of this character flaw. Selfishness is not a virtue.

You got that right!

Yeah, but your brain existed first -- why not exercise it, along with self-control so that another doesn't have to pay for your selfishness. Otherwise, you should be responsible for your actions, actions have consequences, just because something is out of sight doesn't mean it will be out of mind.

Are you male?

I support first trimester abortions only. Anything beyond three months is off limits in my eyes.

As for gay marriage and taxes, I ment to say that I don't support gay marriage and I do support lowering taxes. It is my money I made, so if the government wants to take it from me they better use it on shit that will benefit society and not special interests groups.

I have been in too many abortion debates to get involved in another one. Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I respect your opinions, I admire your thought processes, but I disagree with them.

What is worse, a conservative that doesn't support abortion at all, or a liberal who support any form of abortion?

The liberal is far more in the wrong.

Ask me any question if you would like to get some kind of idea of my political beliefs. I assure you I am fairly conservative. I support a more moderate view on a lot of issues, but for the most part I lean conservative and RNC.

sunsettommy

03-11-2006, 12:21 PM

sunsettommy

03-11-2006, 12:39 PM

Abortion is probably one of the only issues I disagree with conservatives on. Everything else like gay marriage, taxes, etc I support.

Ok whatever.

The simple thing for you guys to do is accept the fact that not everyone agrees with you. I support abortion. I don't see what the big deal is. I also don't see how it is murder when you destroy a parasite that isn't even bigger than my pinky.

A PARASITE! :thud:

Do you realize that the entire time of the development the embryo and then fetus is always human?

Sorry, but I'd rather support a child when I have the money to do so. Sex is not only for creation, it is for pleasure too. I am not going to let the possibility of a child stop me from doing what I enjoy. Responsible? No. But the technology exists to remove the fetus, so why not?

I wonder if you have been a parent.If not you have no idea what it is like to have a developing baby.I went the whole route with my wife last year and believe me.We never thought of it as a "parasite".

We made our MONTHLY visits and had the check ups and then at 20 weeks saw the fetus through soundwaves.It looked like a baby to me then.The arms and legs were apparent and saw the beating heart and a face too.We learned her sex too.

It was NEVER a parasite to us.

The technology exist to prevent pregnancies too.

HomeschoolrsRUs

03-11-2006, 12:52 PM

I support first trimester abortions only. Anything beyond three months is off limits in my eyes.

Okay first trimester, first three months, 12 weeks and under right?

Sure you don't want to amend your support, or at least lower the threshhold?

Pregnancy Week by Week - Week 5 (http://pregnancy.about.com/cs/pregnancycalendar/l/blweek5.htm)

Baby:

<DD>The heart will begin to beat this week! <DD>
Pregnancy Week by Week - Week 8 (http://pregnancy.about.com/cs/pregnancycalendar/l/blweek8.htm)

Baby:

<DD>This week the baby's gonads will become either testes or ovaries. And spontaneous movement begins! <DD>
Pregnancy Week by Week - Week 9 (http://pregnancy.about.com/cs/pregnancycalendar/l/blweek9.htm)

Baby:

<DD>Baby will move away if touched through the uterine wall, and can spontaneously move as well. <DD>
Pregnancy Week by Week - Week 10 (http://pregnancy.about.com/cs/pregnancycalendar/l/blweek10.htm)

Baby:

<DD>The baby now enters it's fetal period.
http://images.about.com/all/buttons/speaker.gif (http://pregnancy.about.com/library/media/audio/fetalheart.ram)

<DD>Click the audio file to hear a baby's heart beat at 10 weeks 2 days. It's beating at about 160 beats per minute (BPM). <DD>
Pregnancy Week by Week - Week 12 (http://pregnancy.about.com/cs/pregnancycalendar/l/blweek12.htm)

Baby:

<DD>While your baby's brain is not the same size it will be at birth, it does have the same structure. <DD>Your baby has its reflexes and also practice movements in the digestive tract. All of this in preparation for extrauterine life.

As for gay marriage and taxes, I ment to say that I don't support gay marriage and I do support lowering taxes. It is my money I made, so if the government wants to take it from me they better use it on shit that will benefit society and not special interests groups.

Thanks for the clarification.

I have been in too many abortion debates to get involved in another one. Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I respect your opinions, I admire your thought processes, but I disagree with them.

Very well, but I cannot and will not silence my vocal support for the preborn voices who cannot speak for themselves. I am intimately acquainted with this subject, and I won't ignore an opportunity to speak out against it.

What is worse, a conservative that doesn't support abortion at all, or a liberal who support any form of abortion?

Abortion, period.

The liberal is far more in the wrong.

Right is right as you ride a long, but you're just as dead if you'd have been wrong.

Ask me any question if you would like to get some kind of idea of my political beliefs. I assure you I am fairly conservative. I support a more moderate view on a lot of issues, but for the most part I lean conservative and RNC.

I merely responded to an issue that is of great concern to me. If you lean conservative otherwise, that's great.

Seems a little strange to me though, supporting individual rights (conservative) without supporting the individual's first right recognized (in the DoE), that of the right to life.

</DD>

Rhino

03-14-2006, 09:20 AM

FYI, semen containing sperm is present LONG before ejaculation.That's what I was referring to when I said timing doesn't matter. I just didn't want to be that graphic.

Abortion is probably one of the only issues I disagree with conservatives on.....

....The simple thing for you guys to do is accept the fact that not everyone agrees with you.Who is "you"? You are making a generalization that doesn't hold water. Not all conservatives here agree on everything, abortion included, and the same goes for conservatives across the nation in general. Don't go overboard with the stereotypes.

jAk

03-14-2006, 02:04 PM

That's what I was referring to when I said timing doesn't matter. I just didn't want to be that graphic.

Who is "you"? You are making a generalization that doesn't hold water. Not all conservatives here agree on everything, abortion included, and the same goes for conservatives across the nation in general. Don't go overboard with the stereotypes.

You meaning the conservatives in this thread, who seem to all agree with eachother. I am not going overboard in any case, just an easy observation.

Rhino

03-14-2006, 02:31 PM

You meaning the conservatives in this thread, who seem to all agree with eachother. I am not going overboard in any case, just an easy observation.You didn't specify conservatives in this thread. You just said "conservatives". Since we don't all agree with each other, on this and many other issues, your attempted point falls completely flat, which makes your use of an illogical stereotype 'overboard". That is, unless you intended for your point to fall completely flat, in which case the illogical stereotype was completely appropriate. You may have gotten one thing right, though. You at least had the sense to qualify this last post with "seem to all agree", indicating that you did indeed realize your stereotype was likely false.

All that having been said, I'll make it easy and give you a hint; We don't all agree.

dcanner

03-15-2006, 01:07 PM

Adoption is a poor choice. Send your children into a ****ed up system, so they can grow up and leach on the system. Yeah, lets try it.

Abortion is a great option. It isn't murder.

:thud: You've got to be kidding me. Kill them instead of send them to a loving home? I'm not talking foster care, this is permanent placement in a home with people who will love and care for them like their own. It's a win-win situation. Where do you get this idea that adoption messes kids up? What a crazy attitude.

Venus de Smilo

03-18-2006, 02:48 AM

Geez, both Molly, the whacko author, and Michelle, the Big Easy, need a biology class. Michelle is one of these dumb single women who thinks she's going to find a husband to take care of her and her whelps from other men by putting out for every guy who shows an interest in her. It hasn't occurred to her that either her reputation preceded the chance encounter or it's written all over her, so she drags home every beer dawg she can find with the hope that one of them might thrill to the idea of taking her and her no-name kids on a permanent basis. Right.

Venus de Smilo

03-18-2006, 02:52 AM