Global Warming: A Closer Look at the Numbers

[Timberwolf]

Global Warming: A Closer Look at the Numbers (http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html)

Water Vapor Rules the Greenhouse System


Just how much of the "Greenhouse Effect" is caused by human activity?

It is about 0.28%, if water vapor is taken into account-- about 5.53%, if not.

This point is so crucial to the debate over global warming that how water vapor is or isn't factored into an analysis of Earth's greenhouse gases makes the difference between describing a significant human contribution to the greenhouse effect, or a negligible one.

http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image270f.gifWater vapor constitutes Earth's most significant greenhouse gas, accounting for about 95% of Earth's greenhouse effect (4). Interestingly, many "facts and figures' regarding global warming completely ignore the powerful effects of water vapor in the greenhouse system, carelessly (perhaps, deliberately) overstating human impacts as much as 20-fold.

Water vapor is 99.999% of natural origin. Other atmospheric greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), nitrous oxide (N2O), and miscellaneous other gases (CFC's, etc.), are also mostly of natural origin (except for the latter, which is mostly anthropogenic).

Human activites contribute slightly to greenhouse gas concentrations through farming, manufacturing, power generation, and transportation. However, these emissions are so dwarfed in comparison to emissions from natural sources we can do nothing about, that even the most costly efforts to limit human emissions would have a very small-- perhaps undetectable-- effect on global climate.


For those interested in more details a series of data sets and charts have been assembled below in a 5-step statistical synopsis.

Note that the first two steps ignore water vapor.

Read the rest HERE (http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html)

[Native American]

Plus global temperature is remarkably steady, and isn't rising!

Global satellite data, the most reliable of climate measurements, shows no evidence of warming!

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/sat.gif

[Native American]

For those interested in more details a series of data sets and charts have been assembled below in a 5-step statistical synopsis.

Note that the first two steps ignore water vapor.


Read the rest HERE (http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html)

Note also that those "data sets" don't indicate that global temperature is "increasing."! So I posted the data set which shows, on the contrary, that global temperature is remarkably steady and not "warming" at all!

[sunsettommy]

Plus global temperature is remarkably steady, and isn't rising!

Global satellite data, the most reliable of climate measurements, shows no evidence of warming!

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/sat.gif

Yup a moron who clings to old data.

Hint: it is now 2006 SIXTEEN YEARS LATER!
The recent data now shows a slight warming.

[Native American]

Yup a moron who clings to old data.

Hint: it is now 2006 SIXTEEN YEARS LATER!
The recent data now shows a slight warming.

What an asshole you are. Yeah, it's sixteen years later, but notice how you don't have any more recent data that you're willing to post? That's because the "recent data" does not show a "slight warming".

You're a fraud.

[Timberwolf]

...and you're an arrogant twit. Your condenscending, holier than thou attitude sucks. Grow up and DEBATE...this is NOT Flame Wars, although I can make the suggestion to the Admins that you be "imprisoned" there indefinitely if you don't get yerself an attitude adjustment...and I mean RIGHT NOW.

You've been a sniping little harpie for some time now. You've insult those who just happen to be intellectually superior to you. This is the 2nd time I've told you to chill...ain't gonna be a 3rd time.

That graph that you cling to like a drowning man with a life preserver is out-dated. It would be like me posting gas prices from 1990 and telling you that prices aren't trending up. Buy a clue, Chuckles.

[Native American]

...and you're an arrogant twit.

You've insult those who just happen to be intellectually superior to you.

No, I insult assholes like you who begin calling me names, like you just did, asshole. I hadn't called you any names, but since you want to play that game, I'll dish it right back atcha, asshole.

If you don't like being insulted, asshole, then I suggest you learn to not initiate namecalling, like you just did.

That graph that you cling to like a drowning man with a life preserver is out-dated.

How so? What temperature changes (if any) have occurred since then?

It would be like me posting gas prices from 1990 and telling you that prices aren't trending up. Buy a clue, Chuckles.

Sorry Noodlehead, but no, it wouldn't be "like that" at all, since Naturalized-Texan has already posted a graph showing (take your pick) global temperature increasing and global temperature decreasing (he offered no core temperature measurements whatsoever, as if he imagines they "don't matter"), so the best estimate is nothing whatsoever has changed, and indeed, the global temperature is holding remarkably steady, Noodlehead.

[Native American]

BTW, as I sit here before my computer, gazing out the window of my house, on acreage, high on a bluff overlooking the majestic Arkansas River, I notice that Man has initiated a Controlled Burn in the beautiful Ozark Mountains to the north of my estate!

Huge billowing clouds of smoke are rising up into the pristine air as a result of that particular burn (hundreds of acres, and that fire is only one of literally scores of intentional fires which are started every year here in the Ozark and the Quachita mountain ranges!) but I can see other intentional forest burns further to the north, up towards Fayetteville.

The billowing clouds of smoke are drifting generally east and north, headed up towards New England, where the liberals up there will subsequently breathe those Man-initiated clouds of smoke.

Now, here's the question for all you disciples of sacred "Global Warming" theory:

Is that intentional behavior by Man resulting in (in your profound scientific opinion, of course) global "warming" or global "cooling"?

Remember now - heat is being released (due to the intentional oxidation of those majestic stands of trees) but of course that heat is swamped, thousands of times over, by the radiant heat of the Sun impinging upon the Earth. Nevertheless, score one for "global warming" theory.

But, at the same time, the resulting cloud cover will block the radiant energy from the Sun striking the Earth! Score one for "global cooling" theory.

So, since you "global warming" theorists are so big on concocting various theories (and so remarkably short on presenting actual scientific data which supports those theories of yours!) what's your theory on this one?? You can try to come up with some actual temperature measurement scientific data later on.....

[Bob_Arctor]

No, I insult assholes like you who begin calling me names, like you just did, asshole.
NA, you should really take it easy here. The mods and owners of this board are very tolerant, but you're coming on way too strong.


Anyway, I've seen you post recently about "core temperature." What do you mean by that?


TW, the water vapor stuff is misleading. It plays a larger role in GW than does any other gas, simply because there's so much of it. However, it is something of a self-regulating system. As concentrations of it go up, we'll get more precipitation. On the other hand, CO2 can't escape the atmosphere easily once it's there. Further, we don't produce much manmade water vapor. We do produce a lot of CO2 and other greenhouse gases. CO2 is only present in a small concentration - 380 parts per million - but it is very effective at trapping heat. Water vapor is present in far higher concentrations than that, but it traps very little heat relative to its volume when compared to methane or carbon dioxide.


You might find this page interesting - it explains the role of each gas, and puts them in perspective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

Bob

[sunsettommy]

NA, you should really take it easy here. The mods and owners of this board are very tolerant, but you're coming on way too strong.


Anyway, I've seen you post recently about "core temperature." What do you mean by that?


TW, the water vapor stuff is misleading. It plays a larger role in GW than does any other gas, simply because there's so much of it. However, it is something of a self-regulating system. As concentrations of it go up, we'll get more precipitation. On the other hand, CO2 can't escape the atmosphere easily once it's there. Further, we don't produce much manmade water vapor. We do produce a lot of CO2 and other greenhouse gases. CO2 is only present in a small concentration - 380 parts per million - but it is very effective at trapping heat. Water vapor is present in far higher concentrations than that, but it traps very little heat relative to its volume when compared to methane or carbon dioxide.


You might find this page interesting - it explains the role of each gas, and puts them in perspective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

Bob

The problem is that even if the CO2 levels double it is still a negligible greenhouse gas.A trace gas as the opening link easily shows.

The increase in watts is only about 4 per second.Contrast that with the suns wattage over a 1,000 per second.

It is an overrrated greenhouse gas.

[sunsettommy]

No, I insult assholes like you who begin calling me names, like you just did, asshole. I hadn't called you any names, but since you want to play that game, I'll dish it right back atcha, asshole.

If you don't like being insulted, asshole, then I suggest you learn to not initiate namecalling, like you just did.

Yes I did call you a few names.Unfortunately for you they are accurate.

I rarely call anyone any names at all.But you have earned it from me.With your arrogant attitude in post after post making it happen.

I get along with both Bob and Markus because they have been civil towards me.Despite that I am a skeptic and they are believers of CO2 global warming.We rarely agree on anything.

You however have been arrogant,condescending and seemingly determined to show how idiotic you can be to all of us.

You however have been calling MANY people in the forum names and over and over too.You often start it too.

Then too you obstinately refuse to answer my reasonable question about providing updated satellite data to fill in the last 16 years.You keep posting an old and obviously outdated chart over and over in the process exposing your ignorance.(I kept hinting at updated data and you never bother to look for it)

Meanwhile you snidely attack me in post after post for not posting the updated satellite data,calling me a fraud and a moron and so on.All on a chart YOU started with that was lacking the last 16 years!

I already knew about the updated data and have been following it for years and years.It was YOU who was shouting your ignorance so openly,that I was trying to get you to look up the rest of the 16 years.To stop making a fool of yourself.The ignorance was apalling.

NT,Bob,Markus,DoctorDoom,Sunsettommy,Aric2000 and more already knew about the current satellite data showing a warming trend.

You did not and that was why I called you a moron over it.`

Meanwhile.....,

The cooling reflected in the first 12 years has since then changed to a slight warming over the ENTIRE 26+ years.

I knew because I have seen the fully up to date chart that shows the lower trophosphere in 2006 now warming.It was cooling back in 1990.

That was why I kept asking you for the updated data so you will see that what it was in 1990 is no longer true.

The heat on you is building and I can see it coming.I know because I have seen people vanish after they go wild and out of control with the mouth.I have seen it over and over on another forum.

It would be wise to cool down your mouth.

[DoctorDoom]

... this is NOT Flame Wars ...It is now.

[Timberwolf]

LOL, Doc...so it is.

[Native American]

Yes I did call you a few names.

Yes, you certainly did, asshole.

Unfortunately for you they are accurate.

And you actually think my subsequent description of you wasn't?

LOL at you!

[Native American]

Anyway, I've seen you post recently about "core temperature." What do you mean by that?

There are basically three areas of the Earth that we can take temperature readings of if our desire is to determine whether or not the mythical "global warming" is occuring:

1) the upper atmosphere

2) the surface atmosphere

3) the soil and the ocean

Most "global warming" theorists want to consider only Item (2) because Item (1) shows the Earth is cooling. And hardly any "global warming" theorists even bother thinking about Item (3), because it too would demolish their theory.


The cooling reflected in the first 12 years has since then changed to a slight warming over the ENTIRE 26+ years.

No, it still shows a slight cooling for the first 12 years, followed by a slight warming for the last 14 years, not "the entire 26 years".

Obviously you can't even read your own posted graph correctly.

I knew because I have seen the fully up to date chart that shows the lower trophosphere in 2006 now warming.It was cooling back in 1990.


Amusingly, the data during the time span shown on my chart matches the data shown during the same time span on your chart exactly. So my chart wasn't "out of date" or "incorrect" at all - it merely didn't show the data during the most recent 14 years. You seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between "incorrect" and "incomplete".

But, more importantly, what your chart shows (in addition to tracking my chart exactly) is that suddenly we entered a period of slight warming, around the mid-80's. Now, to the "global warming" theorist/alarmist, this means Man began Doing Something He Shouldn't Be Doing. Usually the theorist/alarmist cites the following:

1) driving SUV's

2) driving too much in general

3) making and using too much electricity

So what this must mean is that suddenly, in the late 80's, Man began constructiong electric power plants, discovered the internal combustion engine, and began construction SUV's. Prior to the late 80's, Man obviously must not have been (A) driving or (B) consuming electricity.

Then again, without measuring the core temperature of the Earth (the soil 40 feet or so down, as well as the ocean) we can hardly expect to have a handle on whether or not the Earth is actually "warming". Surface atmosphere temps (mostly taken near big cities) don't carry much weight, given the phenomenon that a brick placed in the Sun all day long will get very hot and will retain and reradiate that heat overnight. And upper atmosphere temps, as we have already seen, show cooling, not "warming".

And then of course there's also the issue of "what's causing this?", and it's hardly been scientifically established that Man is in any way the cause of it, whatever "it" happens to be.

[sunsettommy]

Well with the main flame broiler missing.

The flame war is already over.

[Faithful_Servant]

There is something we can to reduce the naturally occuring water vapor - it's called clear-cutting. ;)

EARTH FIRST - We'll log the other planets later.