Can Immigration reform work without welfare reform?

[ANI]

I keep hearing both Mexican and American politicians try to convince me that our economy needs illegal immigrants to do "the work that Americans won't do)...Well for one thing...the jobs that the illegals take are jobs that high school kids used to take to earn a few bucks in the summer and learn a work ethic. Then there is the issue of able bodied welfare recieptiants that don't take those jobs because they just don't want to work or can't afford to. What if the welfare system were reformed to encourage those people to take those jobs...like if you are able bodied and able to work...you have to..we will supplement your income only if you work. Wouldn't that work toward resolving more than one problem?

[ANI]

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN
in 1907.


"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who
comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates
himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with
everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any
such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is
predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American,
and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance
here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also,
isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the
American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that
is the English language... and we have room for but one sole
loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

[Un Con Troll Able]

The issue isn't about illegal immigrants doing the jobs that Americans won't do. It is about American business not being held to the standard of paying a wage for these jobs that would motivate Americans to perform them. That's one of tenets of a free-market economy. Businesses who utilize these workers are, in effect, receiving a taxpayer-funded subsidy -- because it is taxpayers who end up footing the bill for unpaid hospital bills, schooling costs for their children, and prison costs for those who break the law.

Those businesses who say they can't survive without them...oh, well, that's one of the tenets of a free-market economy as well. Besides, the make-or-break arguments they use are, for the most part, bogus. No one can tell me that paying a janitor or a fruit picker four or five times as much is going to tank a business because such wages make up a tiny portion of doing business.

[Kathy29]

That lie won't work anymore because too many Americans have applied for jobs some even at the wages paid to illegals, or low paid HB1 foreign workers and been turned down in favor of the illegal or visa holder.

The grounds given "you can't communicate with the rest of the workforce. You have to not only speak spanish (Farsi, Urdu, pick one) but have a deep and comprehensive cultural understanding of your co-workers."

American companies who make it a company policy to hire Americans don't seem to have any trouble finding workers. Have you been to an In n Out Burger lately? American teens, black, white and Asian and yes even some hispanics work there. Americans ALL because it's a company policy. Are they shorthanded? Not that I've noticed.

Who did all those jobs before the invasion? Who does those jobs where the invader hasn't taken over? Americans.

Jobs Americans won't do..... It's disgusting. Have you watched the news lately? Did you happen to notice that the dirtiest and most dangerous jobs in the whole country are done by Americans? Who do you think died in the mining accidents?

Stop the LIE.

[Beowulf]

Simple answer is NO. Illegals come here FOR those freebie welfare benefits and little else.
I posted my feeling on illegals "doing jobs Americans won't do" elsewhere but I will say that it is a weak argument.

[Rink]

The issue isn't about illegal immigrants doing the jobs that Americans won't do. It is about American business not being held to the standard of paying a wage for these jobs that would motivate Americans to perform them. That's one of tenets of a free-market economy. Businesses who utilize these workers are, in effect, receiving a taxpayer-funded subsidy -- because it is taxpayers who end up footing the bill for unpaid hospital bills, schooling costs for their children, and prison costs for those who break the law.

Those businesses who say they can't survive without them...oh, well, that's one of the tenets of a free-market economy as well. Besides, the make-or-break arguments they use are, for the most part, bogus. No one can tell me that paying a janitor or a fruit picker four or five times as much is going to tank a business because such wages make up a tiny portion of doing business.

#1. the problem is the produce industry is a cutthroat industry and foreigners are undercutting American produce to the extent its killing off American farm produce companies because they cannot compete with the uber low priced foreign imports that are being subsidized by those foreign countries.

#2, get RID of the govt regulations and controls, chiefly the MINIMUM WAGE laws which keeps the standard minimum wage artificially too high.

#3, Reform the Child Labor laws and let Kids WORK when they want to irregardless of age as long as they arent being forced to work and with the way companies are monitored that should NOT be a problem to keep on top of.

Talking about a 'free market economy' is one thing but if you truly look at it, America is NOT under a free market economy as there are way to many govt controls, regulations, intrusions and roadblocks to actually Allow American economy to be truly free and allow the marketplace to dictate prices, wages et al, the govt is to blame for this mess and the govt is loathe to let go of these controls, they would rather continue the things the way they are with illegals working in slave-labor conditions and being paid zilch practically.

[Rink]

PS: Minimum wage laws make it TERRIBLY difficult for small businesses succeed, which is also perfectly fine by the Big corporations who do NOT want small businesses to compete with them.

They want the elimination of the small businsses and the total control and domination of large corporations in order to keep their hold on the market.

Thats one reason why the minimum wage laws have not been removed as well.