The Generals War

[Pendragon_6]

What's behind the attacks against Rumsfeld.

April 17, 2006

So when did Generals cease to be responsible for outcomes in war? We ask that question amid the latest calls by certain retired senior military officers for Donald Rumsfeld to resign over U.S. difficulties in Iraq.

Major General Charles H. Swannack Jr., for one, was quoted last week as saying the Defense Secretary's "absolute failures in managing the war against Saddam in Iraq" mean he is not "the right person" to continue leading the Pentagon. Mr. Swannack, who commanded the 82nd Airborne in Iraq, joins other ex-uniformed Iraq War critics such as former Centcom Commander Anthony Zinni and retired Army Major General John Batiste. But there's far more behind this firefight than Mr. Rumsfeld's performance.

Mr. Zinni in particular neither fought the Iraq War nor supported it in the first place. He is a longtime advocate of "realism" in the Middle East, which is fancy-speak for leaving Arab dictators alone in the name of "stability." What Mr. Zinni really opposes is President Bush's "forward strategy of freedom," not the means by which the Administration has waged the Iraq campaign.

As for those who've raised the issue of competence, we'd be more persuaded if they weren't so impossibly vague. If their critique is that Mr. Rumsfeld underestimated the Sunni insurgency, well, so did the CIA and military intelligence. Retired General Tommy Franks, who led and planned the campaign that toppled Saddam Hussein, took a victory lap after the invasion even as the insurgency gathered strength.

If their complaint is that Mr. Rumsfeld has since fought the insurgents with too few troops, well, what about current Centcom Commander John Abizaid? He is by far the most forceful advocate of the "small footprint" strategy--the idea that fewer U.S. troops mean less Iraqi resentment of occupation.



In Full
Opinion Journal (http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008249)

[Eagle1]

i like rummy, i think he has done the best anyone can be expected to do in those situations.
but is it a strength or a weakness that when people make mistakes in gov today (ex. WACO, ruby ridge) they are not replaced like had been done in the past

[BarkleUSA]

The fact that Rumsfield ruffled a few feathers is a sign that he’s doing something right. Something tells me these complaining generals are laying the foundation for a political career as anti-American Democratic party candidates. Undermining the war effort and siding with AlQaida are prerequisites for serious Democratic candidates these days.

Rumsfield should have had these assholes courtmarshalled before they retired to save the US Taxpayers from paying for their retirement.

[DoctorDoom]

But if we're going to start assigning blame, then the generals themselves are going to have to assume much of it.One problem is the lack of Pattons in today's military.

"Men, this stuff that some sources sling around about America wanting out of this war, not wanting to fight, is a crock of bullshit. Americans love to fight, traditionally. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. You are here today for three reasons. First, because you are here to defend your homes and your loved ones. Second, you are here for your own self respect, because you would not want to be anywhere else. Third, you are here because you are real men and all real men like to fight. When you, here, everyone of you, were kids, you all admired the champion marble player, the fastest runner, the toughest boxer, the big league ball players, and the All-American football players. Americans love a winner. Americans will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win all of the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American.

"You are not all going to die. Only two percent of you right here today would die in a major battle. Death must not be feared. Death, in time, comes to all men. Yes, every man is scared in his first battle. If he says he's not, he's a liar. Some men are cowards but they fight the same as the brave men or they get the hell slammed out of them watching men fight who are just as scared as they are. The real hero is the man who fights even though he is scared. Some men get over their fright in a minute under fire. For some, it takes an hour. For some, it takes days. But a real man will never let his fear of death overpower his honor, his sense of duty to his country, and his innate manhood. Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best and it removes all that is base. Americans pride themselves on being He Men and they ARE He Men. Remember that the enemy is just as frightened as you are, and probably more so. They are not supermen.

"All through your Army careers, you men have bitched about what you call 'chicken shit drilling'. That, like everything else in this Army, has a definite purpose. That purpose is alertness. Alertness must be bred into every soldier. I don't give a f*ck for a man who's not always on his toes. You men are veterans or you wouldn't be here. You are ready for what's to come. A man must be alert at all times if he expects to stay alive. If you're not alert, sometime, a German son-of-an-asshole-bitch is going to sneak up behind you and beat you to death with a sockful of shit!

"There are four hundred neatly marked graves somewhere in Sicily, all because one man went to sleep on the job. But they are German graves, because we caught the bastard asleep before they did.

"An Army is a team. It lives, sleeps, eats, and fights as a team. This individual heroic stuff is pure horse shit. The bilious bastards who write that kind of stuff for the Saturday Evening Post don't know any more about real fighting under fire than they know about f*cking!

"We have the finest food, the finest equipment, the best spirit, and the best men in the world. Why, by God, I actually pity those poor sons-of-bitches we're going up against. By God, I do. My men don't surrender. I don't want to hear of any soldier under my command being captured unless he has been hit. Even if you are hit, you can still fight back. That's not just bull shit either. The kind of man that I want in my command is just like the lieutenant in Libya, who, with a Luger against his chest, jerked off his helmet, swept the gun aside with one hand, and busted the hell out of the Kraut with his helmet. Then he jumped on the gun and went out and killed another German before they knew what the hell was coming off. And, all of that time, this man had a bullet through a lung. There was a real man!

"All of the real heroes are not storybook combat fighters, either. Every single man in this Army plays a vital role. Don't ever let up. Don't ever think that your job is unimportant. Every man has a job to do and he must do it. Every man is a vital link in the great chain. What if every truck driver suddenly decided that he didn't like the whine of those shells overhead, turned yellow, and jumped headlong into a ditch? The cowardly bastard could say, 'Hell, they won't miss me, just one man in thousands'. But, what if every man thought that way? Where in the hell would we be now? What would our country, our loved ones, our homes, even the world, be like? No, Goddamnit, Americans don't think like that. Every man does his job. Every man serves the whole. Every department, every unit, is important in the vast scheme of this war. The ordnance men are needed to supply the guns and machinery of war to keep us rolling. The Quartermaster is needed to bring up food and clothes because where we are going there isn't a hell of a lot to steal. Every last man on K.P. has a job to do, even the one who heats our water to keep us from getting the 'G.I. Shits'.

"Each man must not think only of himself, but also of his buddy fighting beside him. We don't want yellow cowards in this Army. They should be killed off like rats. If not, they will go home after this war and breed more cowards. The brave men will breed more brave men. Kill off the Goddamned cowards and we will have a nation of brave men. One of the bravest men that I ever saw was a fellow on top of a telegraph pole in the midst of a furious fire fight in Tunisia. I stopped and asked what the hell he was doing up there at a time like that. He answered, 'Fixing the wire, Sir'. I asked, 'Isn't that a little unhealthy right about now?' He answered, 'Yes Sir, but the Goddamned wire has to be fixed'. I asked, 'Don't those planes strafing the road bother you?' And he answered, 'No, Sir, but you sure as hell do!' Now, there was a real man. A real soldier. There was a man who devoted all he had to his duty, no matter how seemingly insignificant his duty might appear at the time, no matter how great the odds. And you should have seen those trucks on the rode to Tunisia. Those drivers were magnificent. All day and all night they rolled over those son-of-a-bitching roads, never stopping, never faltering from their course, with shells bursting all around them all of the time. We got through on good old American guts. Many of those men drove for over forty consecutive hours. These men weren't combat men, but they were soldiers with a job to do. They did it, and in one hell of a way they did it. They were part of a team. Without team effort, without them, the fight would have been lost. All of the links in the chain pulled together and the chain became unbreakable.

"Don't forget, you men don't know that I'm here. No mention of that fact is to be made in any letters. The world is not supposed to know what the hell happened to me. I'm not supposed to be commanding this Army. I'm not even supposed to be here in England. Let the first bastards to find out be the Goddamned Germans. Some day I want to see them raise up on their piss-soaked hind legs and howl, 'Jesus Christ, it's the Goddamned Third Army again and that son-of-a-f*cking-bitch Patton'.

"We want to get the hell over there. The quicker we clean up this Goddamned mess, the quicker we can take a little jaunt against the purple pissing Japs and clean out their nest, too. Before the Goddamned Marines get all of the credit.

"Sure, we want to go home. We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin and Tokyo. And when we get to Berlin, I am personally going to shoot that paper hanging son-of-a-bitch Hitler. Just like I'd shoot a snake!

"When a man is lying in a shell hole, if he just stays there all day, a German will get to him eventually. The hell with that idea. The hell with taking it. My men don't dig foxholes. I don't want them to. Foxholes only slow up an offensive. Keep moving. And don't give the enemy time to dig one either. We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans that we've got more guts than they have; or ever will have. We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-bitches, we're going to rip out their living Goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun cocksuckers by the bushel-f*cking-basket. War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours. Rip them up the belly. Shoot them in the guts. When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt off your face and realize that instead of dirt it's the blood and guts of what once was your best friend beside you, you'll know what to do!

"I don't want to get any messages saying, 'I am holding my position.' We are not holding a Goddamned thing. Let the Germans do that. We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything, except the enemy's balls. We are going to twist his balls and kick the living shit out of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and to keep on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We are going to go through him like crap through a goose; like shit through a tin horn!

"From time to time there will be some complaints that we are pushing our people too hard. I don't give a good Goddamn about such complaints. I believe in the old and sound rule that an ounce of sweat will save a gallon of blood. The harder WE push, the more Germans we will kill. The more Germans we kill, the fewer of our men will be killed. Pushing means fewer casualties. I want you all to remember that.

"There is one great thing that you men will all be able to say after this war is over and you are home once again. You may be thankful that twenty years from now when you are sitting by the fireplace with your grandson on your knee and he asks you what you did in the great World War II, you WON'T have to cough, shift him to the other knee and say, 'Well, your Granddaddy shoveled shit in Louisiana.' No, Sir, you can look him straight in the eye and say, 'Son, your Granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and a Son-of-a-Goddamned-Bitch named Georgie Patton!"

Text from The Famous Patton Speech (http://www.pattonhq.com/speech.html), with comments removed.

We don't need whining pussies like Swannak and Zinni. We need ass-kicking sons of bitches like George Patton.

[Pendragon_6]

Aren't some of the generals critisizing Rummy writing books?

[DoctorDoom]

That wouldn't be even slightly surprising. They do seem to be sucking up to their potential customers.

[pinqy]

One problem is the lack of Pattons in today's military.People who argue against the policies of the civilian Secretary of War/Defense and who intend to openly criticize their government's leaders and policies after retirement? From a press conference on May 8, 1945: "Right in the Hun’s backyard which is now Hitler’s graveyard. But that’s not the end of this business by any means. What the tin-soldier politicians in Washington and Paris have managed to do today is another story you’ll be writing for a long while.... They have allowed us to kick hell out of one bitches and at the same time forced us to help establish a second one as evil or more evil than the first. Tsk, openly criticizing the government in time of war. And from an Oct 45 diary entry: [quote]I will resign when I have finished this job, which will be not later than Dec. 26, I hate to do it, but I have been caged all my life, and whether they appreciate it or not, America needs some honest men who dare say what they think, not what they think people want them to think."
If he had lived he would have done exactly what these generals are doing now. Granted he was a much better warfighter, but he had his issues with the civilian leadership and meant to speak out.

ETA: and lets not forget MacArthur, who openly disobeyed orders from Washington and openly criticized the President during time of war.

[Rhino]

Actually, those statements were made after the end of hostilities in Europe. And he wasn't criticising the conduct of the war itself, but rather lamenting that we weren't extending it to encompass other enemies, namely Russia.

I always considered MacArthur to be a prima donna.

[BarkleUSA]

Patton was referring to the fact that FDR didn’t finish the job and get rid of Stalin when we had the chance. Like all Democrats – from FDR to Kerry, they are unable to see the danger posed by communism. Patton understood that Stalin was just as evil as Hitler and that the war was only half finished. It took Ronald Reagan to finally defeat the USSR some 40 years later but not before 20 million Russians were slaughtered as a reult of FDR's trusting an evil commie bastard.

Today we have communists openly serving in Congress which poses an even greater danger.

[pinqy]

Actually, those statements were made after the end of hostilities in Europe. And he wasn't criticising the conduct of the war itself, but rather lamenting that we weren't extending it to encompass other enemies, namely Russia.

I always considered MacArthur to be a prima donna.
In Europe, but not in Japan. If these retired generals are to be condemned for "undermining the leadership" then Patton was guilty as well. What the criticisms are isn't really that important. Patton was criticizing the strategies and policies of the occupation...not that much different from what we're hearing now. We were still at war with Japan and end was hardly decided. The point is that it's hypocritical to criticize one set of people and praise another for doing the same thing, differing only in whose criticisms you happen to agree with.

MacArthur was a huge prima donna...he was also right.

[Rhino]

In Europe, but not in Japan. If these retired generals are to be condemned for "undermining the leadership" then Patton was guilty as well. What the criticisms are isn't really that important. Patton was criticizing the strategies and policies of the occupation...not that much different from what we're hearing now. We were still at war with Japan and end was hardly decided. The point is that it's hypocritical to criticize one set of people and praise another for doing the same thing, differing only in whose criticisms you happen to agree with.He was criticising in an area where the enemy had already surrendered, not a situation like Iraq at all. I wouldn't count Japan any more than I would count Iraq criticism as necessarily applying to Afghanistan, or North Korea for that matter. In any case, the 'wartime' part really doesn't matter to me. It's not so much a timing issue to me, as it is an issue of someone calling for a resignation simply because they didn't agree with someone else. For one thing, I see it as arrogant to assume their opinion should hold sway over that of others, or that the opinion of others has no bearing, and the apparent belief that their personal opinion should be a deciding factor over a situation they do not control. They are, now that they are retired, nothing more than a common citizen. And, as with other citizens, opinion noted, as you're entitled to, now sit down and be quiet.

MacArthur was a huge prima donna...he was also right.About what?

[ThomasMore]

Patton was without doubt a great general, and MacArthur at least arguably was (there are equal arguments against MacArthur, and I reserve judgment).



But both are appropriately criticized for failure to follow orders. I am no fan of Truman, but MacArthur's insubordination left Truman no choice but to fire him. Truman was right.

As for the quote from Patton above, I agree completely with Patton's sentiments, but his comments were out of order.

[pinqy]

MacArthur was a huge prima donna...he was also right.About what?MacArthur ordered air strikes on North Korea 24 hours before the President authorized them. I disagree with MacArthur's desire for nuclear attacks on China.
But both are appropriately criticized for failure to follow orders. And that's fine. I believe it's hypocritical to completely condemn the 6 retired generals for their dissent with Rumsfeld while at the same time completely endorsing Patton who fully intended to do the same (though likely much harsher) after he retired.

[PaulRevere]

I think that we would be in better shape in Iraq if we had someone else in charge who was more like the leaders in one of our other wars. You know, the one where no mistakes were ever made?

[DoctorDoom]

As for the quote from Patton above, I agree completely with Patton's sentiments, but his comments were out of order.Maybe they would be in the Ladies' Afternoon Tea and Social. However, he was addressing thousands of soldiers who were quite possibly facing death at the hands of the Germans and the Japs. One doesn't stand up in front of them and say in unctuous tones, "Now boys, our enemies are really not very nice, and you know that they want to hurt you. So I want you to go out there and just slap them silly."

Read the linked page and see the reactions of the soldiers.

[Rhino]

MacArthur ordered air strikes on North Korea 24 hours before the President authorized them. I disagree with MacArthur's desire for nuclear attacks on China.Okay. I automatically think of WWII when MacArthur gets mentioned.

[pinqy]

I think that we would be in better shape in Iraq if we had someone else in charge who was more like the leaders in one of our other wars. You know, the one where no mistakes were ever made?Ah, but the crux of the criticisms is that the mistakes made under Rumsfeld's plans were ones that the generals informed him about and advised against the actions that lead to them. If, for example, Al Najaf had been held by Coalition troops after being taken instead of abandoned on the push to Baghdad, then Muqtada al-Sadr would not have been able to build a power base in the city with his own militia. Lacking government and control in the city, al-Sadr quickly gained control and power and is one of the major leaders of anti-US fighting. More troops initially would also arguably have eliminated or lessened the later problems in Fallujah.

The US Army War College briefing Iraq and the Future of Warfare (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/congress/2003_hr/03-10-21warcollege.pdf) claims that the major factor for Coalition victory was Iraqi ineptitude. That's something you can never and should never count on.

That being said, there were valid, legitimate reasons for Rumsfeld's approach, light years different from the incompetent, policy driven plans in Vietnam. The question was which considerations were more important. Many believe that Rumsfeld bullied the military leadership into accepting his strategy, despite concerns about other factors (such as leaving cities like Al-Najaf unguarded).

[omegatrump]

Patton was referring to the fact that FDR didn’t finish the job and get rid of Stalin when we had the chance. Like all Democrats – from FDR to Kerry, they are unable to see the danger posed by communism. Patton understood that Stalin was just as evil as Hitler and that the war was only half finished. It took Ronald Reagan to finally defeat the USSR some 40 years later but not before 20 million Russians were slaughtered as a reult of FDR's trusting an evil commie bastard.

Today we have communists openly serving in Congress which poses an even greater danger.

Only half finished the job, you mean like GHW Bush did in the first gulf war?

Like our borders wide open and marxist marching in our streets while we fight a supposed war on Terror. And I don't think we've seen the last of the Russians.

[ThomasMore]

Maybe they would be in the Ladies' Afternoon Tea and Social. However, he was addressing thousands of soldiers who were quite possibly facing death at the hands of the Germans and the Japs. One doesn't stand up in front of them and say in unctuous tones, "Now boys, our enemies are really not very nice, and you know that they want to hurt you. So I want you to go out there and just slap them silly."

Read the linked page and see the reactions of the soldiers.

Oops! Completely mistaken. I misread something to suggest that Patton was complaining about civilian superiors, which would have been insubordination -- there is not a word of that, and I know the speech (from the movie). The speech is outstanding and not at all inappropriate. Sorry, DD.

[Patriot Heart]

Loved the Patton speech, Doc, thanks!