Click it or ticket

[DesertFox]

Walter Williams
Townhall.com
24 May 06


Virginia's secretary of transportation sent out a letter announcing the state's annual "Click It or Ticket" campaign May 22 through June 4. I responded to the secretary of transportation with my own letter that in part reads:

"Mr. Secretary: This is an example of the disgusting abuse of state power. Each of us owns himself, and it follows that we should have the liberty to take risks with our own lives but not that of others. That means it's a legitimate use of state power to mandate that cars have working brakes because if my car has poorly functioning brakes, I risk the lives of others and I have no right to do so. If I don't wear a seatbelt I risk my own life, which is well within my rights. As to your statement 'Lack of safety belt use is a growing public health issue that . . . also costs us all billions of dollars every year,' that's not a problem of liberty. It's a problem of socialism. No human should be coerced by the state to bear the medical expense, or any other expense, for his fellow man. In other words, the forcible use of one person to serve the purposes of another is morally offensive."

More (http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/walterwilliams/2006/05/24/198422.html)

[Riverboat]

Read that. Agreed. Turned to Dilbert.

Why doesn't this guy run for office?

[Rink]

All this 'click it or ticket' campaign is an excuse to generate a loadfulla money for govt coffers.

Thats all, if they cant get it through taxation (which they do anyhow and cant never seem to get enough money) now they're driving to ticket everyone and his pet rock in order to get tons of more money.

If a cop wants to ticket someone for not wearing a seatbelt, how are they gonna prove it?

Its the cops word against the driver whether or not the driver is or is not wearing the seatbelt.

This is gonna open up avenues of abuse of this 'click-it-or-ticket' crap

Personally I ALWAYS wear my seatbelt, but I remember a time when they couldnt ticket you soley for just not wearing a seatbelt, they sold this seatbelt law on the premise that if they pull you over for some other infraction and find you arent wearing your seatbelt they then can ticket you for not wearing your seatbelt, to now just openly ticketing anyone they think or see that isnt wearing their seatbelt.

And those who protest my aspersions, not all cops are bad, but its the bad apples that WILL go out of their way to generate ticket revenue by saying 'this person wasnt wearing their seatbelt so I ticketed them' irregardless of whether they were or werent.

How do they prove it?

a cops word against the civvie. thats how.

[Patriot Heart]

As a former ER nurse I have to raise that ugly question, is this country ready to deny emergent medical care to the person/s that refuse to wear their seatbelt? Helmet? (in the case of motorcycles). I personally would have no problem with it, but those darned attorneys.....ok yes I would have a problem, as Christian I could not stand and watch someone bleed to death. Unbelted people simply run a far greater risk of severe injury and/or death. I don't know what the answer is, I am just wondering.....

[Rink]

After nearly 20 years worth of prpopaganda and heavy teachings in public schools we STILL have idiots that wont buckle up.

You cant save the stupid from their stupidity.

But I dont like the idea of loosing my rights just Because of those few stupid idiots.

THATS what I Object to.

We are fast becoming a Police state where every tiny little thing is becoming criminalized to the point you cant sneeze the wrong way without being ticketed and being made a criminal for it.

[Riverboat]

After nearly 20 years worth of prpopaganda and heavy teachings in public schools we STILL have idiots that wont buckle up.

You cant save the stupid from their stupidity.If it were up to me, I'd have the power to issue a ticket to every mouth-breather who doesn't bring a pencil to class. GOODBYE aggravation; HELLO pay raise!

[MichaelS]

The difference between the seat belt law and the slippery slope of which the author fears is the involvement of others in the activities in question. The impact of not wearing a seat belt is generally only known once that individual interacts with another individual in an accident (Most accidents are not with stationary objects). That individual's choice not to wear a seat belt has a direct and significant impact on the life and liberty of the individual with whom he or she interacts.

A similar argument can be and has been made regarding smoking cigarettes. An individual's choice to smoke, while ill-advised and personally detrimental, has negative impacts on the lives of those with whom he or she interacts via second-hand smoke. Thus the passage of clean indoor air smoking laws around the country.

By contrast, a person's choice to down Big Macs day in and day out, possibly leading to high cholesterol, heart problems, diabetes, stroke, and heart attack, does not involve anyone else and has no impact on those with whom that individual interacts. While there will always be those that attempt to legislate all facets of our daily lives, the odds of such legislation succeeding is considerably less likely.

[Beowulf]

Things like seatbelts and helmets to me are common sense. I use my seatbelt everytime I get in before I start the car but it's because I choose to. I don't support laws that make anyone wear them.

That being said, I would like to see a law made more to the consequence end of things. If one chooses not to wear a seat belt or helmet and are hurt, crippled or killed where they would have survived using "common sense," then that person or anyone in the family has no right to sue.
If a person survives a crash but accrues thousands in medical bills, then it is on them. No insurance, no state help. Why should we keep paying for stupidity?

[DesertFox]

If stupidity is going to be the basis for denying something one has already paid for (insurance), then we get into who gets to decide what's stupid? I hope not the insurance company. I hope not the state. I hope not the other guy -- what happens if I'm in a wreck, I don't have my belt on, the other guy does -- but HE caused the accident?

Big time slippery slope.

[The_Fireman]

Makes sense to wear a seat belt but its also a "cash cow" for the state.I got stopped by the Texas Highway Patrol a few days ago.This was on a county road many milrs from a state highway.He wanted to see my drivers liscense,proof of ins.,I also supplied my CHL.He yhen wanted to know if I knew why he stopped me,Isaid I had no idea.He then proceeded to tellm he thought that my inspection sticker said 7-2005 instead of 7-2006.I said no you didnt.You thought that if you stopped me way back on this county road,driving an old beat up car that you might get lucky.I was the one who got luckybecause I WAS NOT WEARING A SEAT BELT,but because I was meeting him and he had to turn around,I had time to buckle it and then It was my word against his.

[Un Con Troll Able]

The problem with people who refuse to "click it" is that they also usually fail to do so with their kids.

You see articles on this subject every-so-often. Personally, I've never seen it as a individual freedom issue. Are these peoples' lives so bereft of true individuality that they feel it necessary to anchor themselves to what is, essentially, a common sense safety issue?

When a guy riding a motorcycle with a helmet cracks his skull open on a curb, is it right for society to pay an extra half million dollars healing him versus the cost if he had been wearing a helmet? Even if he has insurance, who pays the higher premiums as a result?

We all know the answer to that last one.

[DesertFox]

Society doesn't pay it. The insurance company does, and we're all forced to pay insurance even if we've never been in an accident. The insurance companies make money bigtime. I waste no time feeling sorry for them.

[Un Con Troll Able]

I am not "feeling sorry" for the insurance industry. But they invariably pass on those costs to all of their policyholders. I haven't been in an accident in 12 years (the other guy was cited), yet my premiums have risen every year because of the "Be free to live as you want and die as you want!" crowd.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

Riverboat:
If it were up to me, I'd have the power to issue a ticket to every mouth-breather who doesn't bring a pencil to class. GOODBYE aggravation; HELLO pay raise!

:idea: Why stop there?

:moo: I once had a student who thought it would be cute to tell me she was going to sue me, over every little thing. I broke her of the habit, by threatening to sue her for not turning in an assignment, jumping up out of her desk to sharpen her pencil in the middle of class, talking out of turn, smart-alecky comments, you name it.

:idea: On the serious side, it's not a half-bad idea. And since "No Child Left Behind" lays the blame for student failure straight at the feet of the adults, it's only fair we be able to fine or sue "students" for their own bad choices.

[Beowulf]

If stupidity is going to be the basis for denying something one has already paid for (insurance), then we get into who gets to decide what's stupid? I hope not the insurance company. I hope not the state. I hope not the other guy -- what happens if I'm in a wreck, I don't have my belt on, the other guy does -- but HE caused the accident?

Big time slippery slope.

Maybe but I stand behind what I say. IMO, if you don't buckle up or put on the helmet, you are asking for it and accept the increased risks.

I guess "stupidity" was a bad example. I think ignorance might be a better term.

[CzechPrince]

Virginia has gotten crazy with driving laws over the past 2 years.

[DesertFox]

We're very much more bullied around by the state anent driving and cars than anything else. If they can limit our mobility, they can control us more easily.

[Charity]

I really hate wearing a seat belt. It should be my choice whether or not I wish to wear one. The idiots that make those things never had women in mind when they made them. I will leave the rest up to everyone's imagination as to what I mean by that. They are uncomfortable and distracting to women in particular. I think they may have caused more wrecks than we actually hear about. Great letter DF.

[BarkleUSA]

I always wear my seatbelt. While I agree it’s safer to wear it, I suppose the same could be said for keeping both hands on the wheel at the 10 and 2 position. I prefer to drive with my left hand at the 6 o’clock position using my right hand for my coffee travel-mug.

Once we accept click-it-or-ticket, how long before 10-and-2-or flashing blue?

And in the morning when the sun is low on the horizon, it’s safer to use the sun visor. So shouldn’t there be a visor-driver program to protect drivers that refuse to use their sun visor on bright sunny mornings? It would be for their own good of course?

My point is that once we accept government incrementally encroaching on our personal freedoms for “our own good” or the “greater good” then you better hold onto your wallet.

It’s a money grab, plain an simple. As manufacturing jobs are driven offshore and white collar jobs are being outsourced to the lowest bidder, and illegals are driving down the wage the states have to make up for an ever shrinking middle class tax base somehow.

What they can’t get from sin taxes, lotto, tourism, business taxes, death taxes, property taxes, and eminent domain property scams, they can make up for by fining drivers for their own good.

One day you’ll be carpooling in a Mini Cooper and paying a $165.00 ticket for not getting 8 hours sleep (studies show that it’s safer to get a full night’s sleep before operating a motor vehicle) and realize you’re living in Hillary’s Village (i.e. police state) and wondering how it got that way.

[DesertFox]

Good post, Bark. But I don't think it's a money grab so much as a busybody wish to tell us what to do.

[ConspiracyBuff]

I dont think its a moneygrab or a safety issue so much as I believe its an excuse. I truly think that it is an excuse which can be used by any cop who wishes hoping he will get lucky and pull someone over who has no liscense, or insurance or better yet, some teenagers whose car smells like weed or who is drunk. Its most definately an abuse of power. I was pulled over for "not wearing my seatbelt" by a State Trooper on the Highway in CT. He was in the passing lane and he slowed down, looked over at me, then dropped back, as he did so i slipped the belt on, then he pulled behind me and threw on his lights. Now i was driving a 1986 Dodge 600-obviously an older car. So he pulls me over (this is in the summer time) and asks me if i know why he is stopping me and i said, "no i know this car cant even speed if i wanted it to"- Then he goes, "so when did you put that seat-belt on?" and i said, "I had it on the whole time." "No you didnt, let me see liscense, and registration" (then he says, so where ya coming from?, Where ya goin?-like its any of there damn business i hate that and every cop asks that too)....so i give it to him and i am trying to be all like, i swear i did, blah blah....he's like ill be right back, goes to check for warrants or what not, comes back with a ticket for like 250+ dollars and im like whaaaat, he says, "Thats a ticket for no belt, and driving without any shoes on". I was at a friends house swimming all day-this was like July real hot day-and i had a bathing suit and flip flops, and i hate flip flops while driving so i kicked em off to the side not even knowing it was a violation of any kind. So then as if that wasnt dick enough of him, he asks if he can "take a look in the car", then he searches a bit finds nothing, hands me my ticket and leaves. Then im trying to situate myself in the car again and hes behind me on the blow-horn, "Start your car and move along"-like no shit buddy. Anyways, i think the seatbelt thing acts as an "in" for cops to make bigger busts and give larger tickets. And i hate state troopers because they are assholes, especially in CT.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

GREAT post Barkle! :thumb:

[omegatrump]

I am not "feeling sorry" for the insurance industry. But they invariably pass on those costs to all of their policyholders. I haven't been in an accident in 12 years (the other guy was cited), yet my premiums have risen every year because of the "Be free to live as you want and die as you want!" crowd.

I would say your premiums have risen every year, more because we have millions of people driving without license and insurance, (illegals) and the insurance companies use the excuse to pass the buck. Uninsured motorist insurance.

I'm sort of with DF on this. We were sitting at a stop sign a couple of years ago and a man with a prosthetic foot rammed into the back of us. He got his foot on the wrong pedal and accelerated instead of braked. The only thing the police asked us was, were we all wearing our seat belt. As if though if we weren't then that would put us on par with the man who rammed into the back of our car. Their attitude was so brazen, that it did cause me some discomfort. The insurance lobby could better serve society if they insisted on courts dealing with the unlicensed, uninsured millions of illegals who use our roads with impunity.

[Rhino]

No society has unrestricted freedom (no pun intended). It doesn't exist, and it can't.

[DeclinetoState]

I got pulled over not long ago for having a license plate light that was a little dim--or so the cop said. He didn't give me a ticket, just took my license and "ran" it or something and gave it back. I checked my plate lights (there are two) later and both were functioning properly and hardly "dim" at all.

[Rhino]

Well, quit dressing like a gangsta rapper!! Sheesh!

[routerider]

Here is a law passed by some moron(s) many years ago in PA:

Any motorist who sights a team of horses coming toward him must pull well off the road, cover his car with a blanket or canvas that blends with the countryside, and let the horses pass. If the horses appear skittish, the motorist must take his car apart, piece by piece, and hide it under the nearest bush.

[Maggie_T]

This just comes to prove that our Chumps in Office are strict all in the wrong places. :rolleyes:

[Large_Al]

Route I live in Pa. and every time I take my car apart I end up with extra parts. I now just run the Amish over....Don't worry I Put my seat belt on before I hit em.

Pa also has a Helmet Optional law. But you must click it or ticket...
Someone explain that thinking!?!

[BarkleUSA]

RE:
This just comes to prove that our Chumps in Office are strict all in the wrong places.

Amen to that sister.

Maybe if the Click-it-or-Ticket patrol were placed on our southern border there would be fewer drug runners, homicidal gang bangers, jihad crazed terrorists and illegal’s filling our schools, prisons and suckling from the public trough streaming across the border.

Of course they might get shot enforcing real laws so they make up safer ones – for the greater good.

[Riverboat]

Here is a law passed by some moron(s) many years ago in PA:

Any motorist who sights a team of horses coming toward him must pull well off the road, cover his car with a blanket or canvas that blends with the countryside, and let the horses pass. If the horses appear skittish, the motorist must take his car apart, piece by piece, and hide it under the nearest bush. Damn Amish radicals!

[EdmundDantes]

I have to say, once again, I think NH has it right! Seatbelts are mandatory for anyone under the age of 18, but over that seatbelt use is recommended not mandated. Same with motorcycle helmets.

State could have a compelling interest in protecting kids, but never adults!

[BEST45CAL]

You don't have the right to drive. Williams is wrong on this one.

[Rhino]

Here is a law passed by some moron(s) many years ago in PA:

Any motorist who sights a team of horses coming toward him must pull well off the road, cover his car with a blanket or canvas that blends with the countryside, and let the horses pass. If the horses appear skittish, the motorist must take his car apart, piece by piece, and hide it under the nearest bush.Amish IED, Improvised Exercise in Disassembly.

[Rhino]

Still true.

[DesertFox]

I didn't see where Williams said anything about a right to drive.

'Sides, he isn't talking about driving as such, but govt regulation thereof.

[Trevelyan]

I personally think seat belts use is not something the government should be policing in any fashion.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

I personally think seat belts use is not something the government should be policing . . .

Hope you're sitting down Trev . . .

I absolutely agree!

EDIT: With the exception of children -- for children, they should be mandatory.

[Rhino]

I would agree if their injuries didn't cost the rest of us. I'd still like to see them required for kids though.

[BEST45CAL]

I didn't see where Williams said anything about a right to drive.

'Sides, he isn't talking about driving as such, but govt regulation thereof.

I should clarify:

With regards to any laws that pertain to motor vehicles, we kinda have to live with them because operating a motor vehicle is a privilege, not a right. I say "kinda" because we don't have to drive, either.

Nanny state, the government saving us from ourselves, whatever you want to call it, seatbelts are still a good idea.

You have to be a moron to drive without a seatbelt on purpose.

[DesertFox]

Hey! Don't talk about Wolfie when he ain't here!

[Trevelyan]

EDIT: With the exception of children -- for children, they should be mandatory.

I can agree to that.

[CzechPrince]

The idiots that make those things never had women in mind when they made them. I will leave the rest up to everyone's imagination as to what I mean by that.

:hahaha:

I can only imagine!!!!


By the way, I agree. It's my car, I bought it, I bought the seat belt in it too. If I don't want to wear it, why should I?

Be careful, further north you go, the worst they get about these things. You can't even talk on the cell phone while driving if you are in D.C. Talk about Big Brother.

[cerberus]

:hahaha:

I can only imagine!!!!


By the way, I agree. It's my car, I bought it, I bought the seat belt in it too. If I don't want to wear it, why should I?

Be careful, further north you go, the worst they get about these things. You can't even talk on the cell phone while driving if you are in D.C. Talk about Big Brother.

Yeah, but there is a reason for that; you become a danger to yourself and others when on the phone.
As for seatbelts, because it's a privelege, not a right, they can require you to wear a seatbelt. While I would agree with Rhino that in a 'perfect' world if the un-belted's injuries didn't affect anybody else I'd be fine with it, they do. It drives up insurance rates, medical/ER costs, etc etc and causes all sorts of familial anguish, lawsuits blah blah blah. Easier just to make you wear a safety belt. It has been established (for right or wrong) that goverment can have a vested interest in keeping you from being a danger to yourself (why suicide is illegal), this is simply part of that.