Prison Fellowship Ministries

[Eagle1]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=440 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=headlineblack style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 5px">Prison Fellowship Ministries Forced to Close Bible Program at Iowa Prison</TD></TR><TR><TD class=storytext style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px">Saturday, June 03, 2006
http://www.foxnews.com/images/service_ap_36.gif DES MOINES, Iowa — A judge has ruled that a Bible-based prison program violates the First Amendment's freedom of religion clause by using state funds to promote Christianity to inmates.
Prison Fellowship Ministries (javascript:siteSearch('Prison Fellowship Ministries');), which was sued in 2003 by an advocacy group, was ordered Friday to cease its program at the Newton Correctional Facility and repay the state $1.53 million.
"This calls into question the funding for so many programs," said Barry Lynn, executive director of the Washington-based Americans United for Separation of Church and State (javascript:siteSearch('Americans United for Separation of Church and State');), which filed the suit. "Anyone who doesn't stop it is putting a giant 'sue me' sign on top of their building."
Lynn's group accused Prison Fellowship Ministries of giving preferential treatment to inmates participating in the program. They were given special visitation rights, movie-watching privileges, access to computers and access to classes needed for early parole.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198060,00.html

i couldn't believe this...... who cares if it reforms prisoners, its christianity so its bad.

[ThomasMore]

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="440"><tbody><tr><td class="headlineblack" style="padding: 5px 0px 10px;">Prison Fellowship Ministries Forced to Close Bible Program at Iowa Prison</td></tr><tr><td class="storytext" style="padding-bottom: 10px;">Saturday, June 03, 2006
http://www.foxnews.com/images/service_ap_36.gif DES MOINES, Iowa — A judge has ruled that a Bible-based prison program violates the First Amendment's freedom of religion clause by using state funds to promote Christianity to inmates.</td></tr></tbody></table>...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198060,00.html

i couldn't believe this...... who cares if it reforms prisoners, its christianity so its bad.

PFM has had an outstanding record at redeeming lives and turning prisoners away from crime and to the Lord.

By serving spiritual goals, it also provides worldly improvements, too.

The ACLU is becoming more and more nakedly evil.

[DesertFox]

The ACLU is becoming more and more nakedly evil.And that's good. It's easier to fight Communists openly.

[Rink]

These dumbclucks would rather have Islam in those prisons instead of Christianity.

[HooverWasRight]

I'm rather dubious about jailhouse conversion....sorry.

Not that the aclu was right about what it got away with.

[Borgia]

What's your beef with the ACLU here? Are you saying those prisoners who are Christian should get more priviliges than those who are not? Is that American?

[HooverWasRight]

THe question should be: Why was prison policy allowing it more than what the Christians were supposedly getting away with.

[Gonzo67]

What's your beef with the ACLU here? Are you saying those prisoners who are Christian should get more priviliges than those who are not? Is that American?


No, they should NOT get more privileges than the other prisoners. But they SHOULD be allowed to practice their religion. Where are the ACLU's protests about the Muslims? About ANY other religion in prison.

The ACLU is nothing more than another NAACP. The ONLY difference between the two organizations is the ACLU doesn't discriminate against whites. Both the NAACP and the ACLU are just organization consisting of too many people who feel the need to run everyone else's life without having their OWN lives under control. BOTH organizations are about as worthless as a squirt of piss.

[Borgia]

No, they should NOT get more privileges than the other prisoners. But they SHOULD be allowed to practice their religion. Where are the ACLU's protests about the Muslims? About ANY other religion in prison.

As the article stated, the ACLU is concerned about the EXTRA priviliges that the Christian prisoners have access to that the non-Christians would be denied. The ACLU is not trying to take away their right to practice their religion so your concern above is unwarranted. What exactly should the ACLU be protesting about Muslims?

[Gonzo67]

As the article stated, the ACLU is concerned about the EXTRA privileges that the Christian prisoners have access to that the non-Christians would be denied. The ACLU is not trying to take away their right to practice their religion so your concern above is unwarranted. What exactly should the ACLU be protesting about Muslims?


If that were REALLY the case, the ACLU would be demanding that they simply STOP giving them preferential treatment. No, instead:



The judge gave the group's workers 60 days to leave the prison, though he put a stay on his order, meaning the decision won't officially be implemented until the appeals process is complete.



Instead, they want the program to END. They're not concerned with "privileges", they want to STOP the prisoners from exercising THEIR rights. Freedom Of Religion.

Face it, color your precious little organization with what ever crayon you want. They're not "fighting to protect rights". They are FIGHTING TO REMOVE RIGHTS. They claim they're "protecting YOUR first amendment right" by STRIPPING that right from someone else. The ACLU is a joke. The fact that it has ANY political or "legal" merritt is just a SAD TESTAMENT to the degrade of our society.

[Borgia]

If that were REALLY the case, the ACLU would be demanding that they simply STOP giving them preferential treatment. No, instead: Instead, they want the program to END. They're not concerned with "privileges", they want to STOP the prisoners from exercising THEIR rights. Freedom Of Religion.

It will be a cold day in Hell when the ACLU wants people to stop practicing a religion. They defend Christianity all the time. What you see in this decision are consequences if they don't make everyone equal (in regards to religious or non-religious priviliges). In effect, the judge is saying, "If you can't make the proper changes to make it equal, then you are shut down until you do." So what is wrong with that?

Imagine how upset you would be right onw if this were a Muslim ministry group and the Muslim prisoners were receiving extra priviliges that the others were not. You would be livid, right?

[Gonzo67]

Imagine how upset you would be right onw if this were a Muslim ministry group and the Muslim prisoners were receiving extra priviliges that the others were not. You would be livid, right?


I'm not livid about shit. I'm not Christian, so don't think my motivation is in support of "Christianity". And as for your own argument, Now it IS Muslims who have preferential treatment thanks to the ACLU. I think EVERY religion should be welcomed. But the Christianity program has ended... and the Muslim programs are not even touched. So now the MUSLIMS DO have preferential treatment. They're allowed to run their programs while Christians are not. Has your "ACLU" begun work on their lawsuit for that part of it now?

Borgia, you're never going to convince me that the ACLU is nothing but a wasted effort. They don't give a SHIT about rights, as that thing with the Kid refusing to stand for the pledge in school SHOULD have taught you. If they CARED about everyone else's rights, they would have FOUGHT for that teachers RIGHT to call that kid an Unamerican Little Bastard. No, instead, the want her PUNISHED for exercising her right to free speech.

Get your facts straight about the organization you want to support. If you CONTINUE to praise them, you're just as useless to me as they are.

[pinqy]

The ACLU is not involved in this case at all.

[Borgia]

And as for your own argument, Now it IS Muslims who have preferential treatment thanks to the ACLU. I think EVERY religion should be welcomed. But the Christianity program has ended... and the Muslim programs are not even touched. So now the MUSLIMS DO have preferential treatment. They're allowed to run their programs while Christians are not. Has your "ACLU" begun work on their lawsuit for that part of it now?

What Muslim programs are in force that provide priviliges for only Muslim inmates? That is the question, Gonzo.


Borgia, you're never going to convince me that the ACLU is nothing but a wasted effort. They don't give a SHIT about rights, as that thing with the Kid refusing to stand for the pledge in school SHOULD have taught you. If they CARED about everyone else's rights, they would have FOUGHT for that teachers RIGHT to call that kid an Unamerican Little Bastard. No, instead, the want her PUNISHED for exercising her right to free speech.

I don't think you understand how rights are observed. The teacher acts as the instrument of govt and cannot just use his first amendment rights as he pleases when acting as the govt. On his own time he can though.


Get your facts straight about the organization you want to support. If you CONTINUE to praise them, you're just as useless to me as they are.

Like all orgs, I agree with them sometimes and other times I disagree.

[Borgia]

Gonzo:

I am surprised that you would support this sort of behavior:

Movie night at the Prison - "The Ten Commandments"

Guard: "Are you a Christian?"
Prisoner: "No, I just want to see the movie."
Guard: "Sorry, this movie is for Christians only."

Is THAT the sort of stuff you want going on in our prisons? That si EXACTLY why they told them to desists with tehir prejudiced practices.

[Gonzo67]

I am surprised that you would support this sort of behavior:

Movie night at the Prison - "The Ten Commandments"

Guard: "Are you a Christian?"
Prisoner: "No, I just want to see the movie."
Guard: "Sorry, this movie is for Christians only."

Is THAT the sort of stuff you want going on in our prisons? That si EXACTLY why they told them to desists with tehir prejudiced practices.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->


Do you SEE me saying that I think they should be allowed to afford Christian Prisoners more "freedoms' than prisoners of other faiths?



No, they should NOT get more privileges than the other prisoners. But they SHOULD be allowed to practice their religion.


Instead of telling that group "No, you cannot have your own special movie night, or exclusive use of classrooms and computers, instead, they just shut the group down all together. Why FIX the problem when you can just ELIMINATE it.

As for "which muslim programs" are running, there are TONS of "Muslim" programs running in prisons. But you never HEAR about them because to PUT them in the news, and "curtail" the programs in ANY way would be a VIOLATION of their rights. It would be because they are black. Because the WHITE man don't want any Muslims to "organize". All the same old bullshit.

This judge did not make an attempt at LEVELING the playing field. He just eliminated the half of the field the Christians were playing on, and CALLED it fair.

Now, again I'll state, since you apparently missed the meaning in every other post I made... I DO NOT THINK THE CHRISTIANS SHOULD HAVE MORE RIGHTS, FREEDOMS, PRIVILEGES IN PRISON THAN OTHER FAITHS.

But remove the PRIVILEGES. Not the religion.

[Rhino]

The ACLU is not involved in this case at all.Mistaken identity.

[Borgia]

Do you SEE me saying that I think they should be allowed to afford Christian Prisoners more "freedoms' than prisoners of other faiths?

All right, we agree on that point.



Instead of telling that group "No, you cannot have your own special movie night, or exclusive use of classrooms and computers, instead, they just shut the group down all together. Why FIX the problem when you can just ELIMINATE it.
Um, did you read the source story? The suit was brought back in 2003. Further, the judge "gave the group's workers 60 days to leave the prison, though he put a stay on his order, meaning the decision won't officially be implemented until the appeals process is complete." Sounds like it is buisness as usual until the appeal is settled. That should give them plenty of time to change the program to fit the legal requirements. So your objections are moot at this point.



As for "which muslim programs" are running, there are TONS of "Muslim" programs running in prisons. But you never HEAR about them because to PUT them in the news, and "curtail" the programs in ANY way would be a VIOLATION of their rights. It would be because they are black. Because the WHITE man don't want any Muslims to "organize". All the same old bullshit.

Are any of the Muslim programs discriminatory? Do they get special priviliges that non-Muslims do not receive? You need to provide some evidence otherwise it just seems you are attacking Muslims in general for no reason.


This judge did not make an attempt at LEVELING the playing field. He just eliminated the half of the field the Christians were playing on, and CALLED it fair.

So you are advocating an ACTIVIST judge to level the playing field? I did not realize you wanted judges making law? I thought they were just there to uphold the law? Wouldn't it be the program Director's responsibility to change the program to meet the criteria?

Now, again I'll state, since you apparently missed the meaning in every other post I made... I DO NOT THINK THE CHRISTIANS SHOULD HAVE MORE RIGHTS, FREEDOMS, PRIVILEGES IN PRISON THAN OTHER FAITHS.

But remove the PRIVILEGES. Not the religion.

But they have not removed the religion, Gonzo. Please cite how they have. Just removing ONE program does not remove a religion.

[Rhino]

One need not be a Christian to participate in the program.

Earley told Baptist Press that the values-based program is constitutional because it is "voluntary." "It's open to any inmate who would like to participate. There's no religious test, so one can be a Christian, one can be a Muslim, one can be Jewish, one can be an atheist. We've had Druids and Wiccans participate in the program, so there is no faith test to be involved in the program."http://www.mediatransparency.org/storyprinterfriendly.php?storyID=91

[Gonzo67]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by pinqy
The ACLU is not involved in this case at all.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Mistaken identity.


A cow pile by any other name would still smell like shit.

[Borgia]

One need not be a Christian to participate in the program.

http://www.mediatransparency.org/storyprinterfriendly.php?storyID=91

Well, despite what Earley said, the judge decided it was unconstitutional. Seems they only hire Christians yet the govt was paying a portion of their salary was another complaint.

We'll see what happens on appeal.