Man Dies After Being Stunned By Police Taser

[Rhino]

Man Dies After Being Stun By Police Taser
Mukwonago Man Suffered From Paranoid Schizophrenia

POSTED: 7:39 am CDT July 10, 2006
UPDATED: 7:50 am CDT July 10, 2006

MUKWONAGO, Wis. -- An autopsy was scheduled to be performed Monday on the body of a 29-year-old mentally ill Mukwonago man who died Sunday after police shot him with a Taser gun, authorities said.

Nickolos Cyrus suffered from paranoid schizophrenia, according to his father, Chet Cyrus.

Cyrus said during a psychotic episode Saturday, his son wandered away from home.

Nickolos Cyrus turned up early Sunday morning, half-naked, in a home under construction.

The homeowner called Town of Mukwonago police after he discovered the man inside the home........http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/news/9490552/detail.html?subid=22100414&qs=1;bp=t

[Rhino]

Apparently there's an epidemic.

Tased Man Dies In Police Custody

Reported by: Lance Barry
Web produced by: Laura Hornsby
Photographed by: Eric Clajus
First posted: 7/8/2006 11:58:11 PM
A suspect in police custody died Saturday night after being tased along a stretch of northbound I-75.

The man's death prompted a full investigation of the area that closed down a section of I-75 north near Ezzard Charles Drive for over five hours Saturday, redirecting traffic onto I-71 for much of the evening.

Police first responded just before 7 p.m. for a man running in between cars in multiple lanes of traffic on the highway.......http://www.wcpo.com/news/2006/local/07/08/75_tase.html

[Lubbock]

" . . . a man running in between cars in multiple lanes of traffic on the highway . . . "

I suspect that whatever substance the man injested before he began his jog out into traffic had more to do with what killed him than the taser.

[Incident_command]

With as many times as this has happened with drugs being the cause, you would think the headlines would read "Man dies after drug use".

[Lubbock]

And this will no doubt result in a multimillion dollar lawsuit by the grieving family members.

I'm sick and tired of these "taser" stories. Nine times out of ten, it's not the taser, it's the drink/drugs, but it always gets reported as a "taser" death.

Instead of looking for "non-lethal" ways to subdue the unruly or uncontrolable drunk or PCP addict, how about we just go back to the always reliable .38 Smith and Wesson Police Special?

Stop the lawsuits. It's a hell of a lot easier for a cop to defend himself by saying he was in fear for his life, than have a "grieving family member" of some scumbag fund his retirement on a cop's badge.

[ConspiracyBuff]

In this guys case though, I feel bad for the guy. If he was a PS then it's very sad. Of course, the cop had no way of knowing, but a naked dude with obvious mental instabilty should at least had them guessing-understandably their guessing didn't go much further than, "this dudes on PCP or something".

[Rhino]

The dad said they knew he was harmless. Course, I had somebody say that about a dog once, who bit me seconds later.

[DeclinetoState]

Course, I had somebody say that about a dog once, who bit me seconds later.
Clouseau: Does your dog bite?

Hotel clerk: No.

[Clouseau tries to pet dog, which bites him.]

Clousea: I thought you said your dog did not bite!

Hotel clerk: That is not my dog!<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[S-T]

It all depends on how the Taser is used. It is a tool; no more, no less. The Taser can certainly be abused, and that abuse can lead to death. The officers equipped with the Taser need to be properly trained and excessive force should be dealt with. Ultimately, the Taser is much safer than a gun, and from what I have been told is safer than a baton.

[Incident_command]

Clouseau: Does your dog bite?

Hotel clerk: No.

[Clouseau tries to pet dog, which bites him.]

Clousea: I thought you said your dog did not bite!

Hotel clerk: That is not my dog!<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Thats what I was thinking when I read that.:thumb:

[DesertFox]

In any case, a stunning experience.

[RightTurns]

If these kinds of death cases keep occuring, law enforcement is going to have to re-evaluate tasers. It's no different from many departments who are now reverting to a no-pursuit policy since so many innocents are killed during police pursuits.

[Red-voting Badger]

The cops had been called to help take the pschizo man to get mental help the day prior. This happened about 15 minutes away from me and is a big story because of the prior police involvement who had been contacted by the parents. It will be interesting to see how the case and review of the officers actions turns out.

[Beowulf]

" . . . a man running in between cars in multiple lanes of traffic on the highway . . . "

I suspect that whatever substance the man injested before he began his jog out into traffic had more to do with what killed him than the taser.
*sarcasm* But you have to be sympathetic to drug addiction and learn to help the addicted without force *sarcasm off*

To Liberals, this is more reason to begin a crusade to ban tasers as they have done so with guns.

[Foquet]

Anyone have a taser handy when Teddy gets into his limo to go home from the bar?

Talk about "Speed Racer".

[RightTurns]

To Liberals, this is more reason to begin a crusade to ban tasers as they have done so with guns. I disagree. This goes way beyond liberals and conservatives. And we're talking about law enforcement now -- the banning of guns doesn't enter the equation. But if tasers are actually killing people instead of diffusing a situation, then tasers (and the use of them) needs to be closely looked at. Otherwise, law enforcement will be facing a boatload of lawsuits similar to police pursuits where innocents are killed.

[Rhino]

So, the alternative would be to go back to shooting people. How would that reduce lawsuits where innocents were killed?

[RightTurns]

The alternative might be to turn down the voltage. It pains me to say it, but I think police officers may be starting to rely too much on tasers instead of using negotiation techniques or simply clubbing those who are disorderly or out of control.

It's a me-against-them mentality that is easily rectified by the use of a taser.

The use of a firearm is strictly enforced and irrevocable. Not so with the taser gun. However, it seems that evidence is pointing in the other direction lately.

[Peachdiane]

The alternative might be to turn down the voltage.
It's not voltage; it's amperage.

It pains me to say it, but I think police officers may be starting to rely too much on tasers instead of using negotiation techniques or simply clubbing those who are disorderly or out of control.
You'd take away their tasers and guns and give them lawn darts? Right... that'll work.

And yes it is indeed a Left/Right issue.... AI is already screeching for the ban of tasers.

[RightTurns]

It's not voltage; it's amperage.


You'd take away their tasers and guns and give them lawn darts? Right... that'll work.

And yes it is indeed a Left/Right issue.... AI is already screeching for the ban of tasers. Then decrease the amperage. What's the harm in determining if these tasers are actually lethal instead of doing the job that they're intended to do -- diffuse a situation.

And I'm well aware of Amnesty International's stance on tasers. Most of those have to do with the treatment of prisoners in courtrooms and prisons.

But when it concerns citizens of free-will (not behind bars) who become disorderly, do they deserve to die because of too much "amperage"...?

[Rhino]

Negotiation is rarely, if ever, a viable option, clubbing someone is far more dangerous than a taser, and reducing the power of a taser would reduce the effectiveness, and present a danger to both the officers and the suspect, and in fact to the public at large. Tasers are used so that deadly or damaging force doesn't have to be used. Remove them, and deadly or damaging force becomes the only option. That's hardly a reduction in danger.

[DoctorDoom]

In the case of tasers, it's not so much the voltage or the current, but rather than the disruptive effect on the nervous system.

1. HOW DOES A TASER® device WORK?

Upon firing, compressed nitrogen projects two TASER probes up to 15 feet (depending on cartridge) at a speed of 180 feet per second. The probes are connected by thin insulated wire back to the TASER device. An electrical signal transmits throughout the region where the probes make contact with the body or clothing. The result is an instant impairment of the attacker’s neuromuscular control and severely impaired to perform coordinated action. The ADVANCED TASER M18 series uses an automatic timing mechanism to apply the electric charge for 5 seconds. The X26C system discharges bursts of 10 seconds, and can be increased up to a maximum of 30 seconds – enough time for you to flee the area and get to safety.

2. HOW CAN THE TASER SYSTEM BE SO EFFECTIVE YET BE GENERALLY SAFE?

TASER technology does not depend upon impact or body penetration to achieve its effect. Its pulsating electrical output interferes with communication between the brain and the muscular system,resulting in loss of muscular control. The electrical pulse from TASER devices overstimulates the nerves that control muscle movement. It affects them in their natural mode. The TASER is like a remote control that takes away the ability of the target to control his own body – but it does so with minimum violence or injury because it uses a communication mechanism rather than relying on physical injury.Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.taser.com/self_defense/faqs.htm)

[RightTurns]

Negotiation is rarely, if ever, a viable option, clubbing someone is far more dangerous than a taser, and reducing the power of a taser would reduce the effectiveness, and present a danger to both the officers and the suspect, and in fact to the public at large. Tasers are used so that deadly or damaging force doesn't have to be used. Remove them, and deadly or damaging force becomes the only option. That's hardly a reduction in danger. I'm not talking about removing them. On the contrary. My argument is that possibly they are being used over-zealously instead of applying other options. Are they becoming the lazy-cop method of subduing and restraining --- only to the disadvantage of the average citizen who gets out of control on a Saturday night?

Cops are running from call to call nowadays. They have little time for bullshit, bigmouthed drunks or druggies. Therefore, it's easy to ZAP someone and render them helpless instead of trying other methods. And this could be a detriment to perps who end up dead instead of subdued.

[RightTurns]

Doctor Doom - thanks for the link. We know how the taser works, but the evidence is still unclear about what the effects are on certain human species. If people are dying because of taser affects, law enforcement needs to take the issue seriously.

[Rhino]

I'm not talking about removing them. On the contrary. My argument is that possibly they are being used over-zealously instead of applying other options.
I don't know that there are going to be other options available in cases where a taser is truly needed, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they're being used casually. But with 55,000 uses and only a couple of unexplained deaths, one also has to consider how many lives have been saved by those uses. The other side of the coin has to be examined.

[S-T]

The alternative might be to turn down the voltage. It pains me to say it, but I think police officers may be starting to rely too much on tasers instead of using negotiation techniques or simply clubbing those who are disorderly or out of control. In most cases, someone will fully recover from a taser shock quickly. Getting hit with a baton, depending on how well-trained the officer is, where he hits someone, and how hard he hits someone, can cause broken bones, etc. I have been told that Tasers are safer, overall, than the Baton.
But when it concerns citizens of free-will (not behind bars) who become disorderly, do they deserve to die because of too much "amperage"...?
The vast majority of the time, the Taser is not lethal when used properly. When used on someone that has been abusing drugs or has other health problems (or both), the Taser can inflict more harm than intended. In addition, officers must be properly trained. Locally, excessive force probably contributed to a man's death in the county jail. The correctional officer probably should have been fired, but wasn't.
But with 55,000 uses and only a couple of unexplained deaths, one also has to consider how many lives have been saved by those uses. The other side of the coin has to be examined.
:claps:

[gnome]

I wonder if what problem there is, can be handled with proper training and classification. I've often heard that the taser should be referred to as a "less lethal" weapon rather than non-lethal. An officer with that fact in his mind still has the very necessary use of the taser; but is aware that it cannot be used indiscriminately and CAN kill the target.

[Incident_command]

Then decrease the amperage. What's the harm in determining if these tasers are actually lethal instead of doing the job that they're intended to do -- diffuse a situation.

The proper voltage has been determined by studies, the shock in itself is non lethal. Every cop who is issued a taser has been zapped by one at 50,000 voltz. Its the same as what bad guys get hit with and there has yet to be 1 injury from it.Why this is made madatory is beyond me, should he/she be made to take a bullet or a batton strike next? I've been hit with a tazer and its no fun, but in a few seconds I was fine.


But when it concerns citizens of free-will (not behind bars) who become disorderly, do they deserve to die because of too much "amperage"...?

No they are dying due to drug intoxication and other hidden medical problems which an officer on scene could never determine. Look into how many people die after a physical take down on a suspect and you'll see there are about as many deaths as a result. Tazer use lowers the risk of death and injury to the bad guy and the cops.

[Rhino]

Tazer use lowers the risk of death and injury to the bad guy and the cops.
And the public in the area.

[Incident_command]

Good addition.

[S-T]

A reporter for the local newspaper quite literally "took one for the team" by allowing herself to get shocked by a taser. She then wrote a detailed front-page article about what it felt like. This is the reporter in question:

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2004/03/11/jr_katymug0311.jpg

[DoctorDoom]

Doctor Doom - thanks for the link. We know how the taser works ...Talking of reducing voltage/current indicates an unawareness of how the TASER works. It is the pulsating current that conflicts with neural signals, not the power.

Having been hit with both AC and DC in my years in industrial maintenance, I can verify that AC is far "better". DC results in muscles locking up. If a person grabs a high-voltage DC conductor and a complete circuit is made, his hand will grip it, and he'll cook. AC results in violent muscular spasms which in most cases result in one's finding himself sitting on the floor wondering WTF happened.

A taser's output is pulsating, ergo AC-like.

For the curious, here's the patent for it.

Weapon for immobilization and capture - United States Patent 5831199 (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5831199.html)

It includes an extensive discussion of the device, with pros and cons.

As for defending against it, a couple of layers of aluminum window screen worn as a vest will short out the probes, resulting in little if any effect.

[True Grace]

The alternative might be to turn down the voltage. It pains me to say it, but I think police officers may be starting to rely too much on tasers instead of using negotiation techniques or simply clubbing those who are disorderly or out of control.

Are you kidding me? How long do you think it would take for the liberal media to plaster video of the big bad police clubbing "poor unfortunate helpless" criminals all over the internet?

[True Grace]

But when it concerns citizens of free-will (not behind bars) who become disorderly, do they deserve to die because of too much "amperage"...?

In my opinion, if a person becomes disorderly or runs from the police, all bets are off. The police should be able to do whatever it takes to stop them.

[RightTurns]

No they are dying due to drug intoxication and other hidden medical problems which an officer on scene could never determine. Look into how many people die after a physical take down on a suspect and you'll see there are about as many deaths as a result. Tazer use lowers the risk of death and injury to the bad guy and the cops. But that is the key issue. Ironically it's the drunks and druggies who are being tazed and dying. Perhaps their nervous systems are already too compromised -- and additional zapping is the cause of death.

The issue of people with hidden or unknown medical conditions who are dying as a result of being tazed, needs to be further evaluated. After all, hasn't the entire airline industry been forced to stop doling out peanuts because a small number of the population are allergic to them?

I agree that if the public at large are endangered by out-of-control disorderlies, then taze the bastards. But to randomly use tasers without forethought and other methods being used first, is endangering a certain group of UNARMED people for no other reason than to diffuse the situation in the easiest way possible for law enforcement.

Yes, the injuries to police officers are reduced which greatly decreases the cost to departments, but in almost EVERY case of a taser being used, we are ordering ambulances for the victims. The cost of that cancels out the cost of injured officers.

I'm on the fence about it.

[RightTurns]

In my opinion, if a person becomes disorderly or runs from the police, all bets are off. The police should be able to do whatever it takes to stop them. That is why you're not a supervisor in a public safety setting. :)

[Lubbock]

" . . . video of the big bad police clubbing "poor unfortunate helpless" . . . " . . . is the very reason we have tasers. Departments all over the country have ceased using the night stick and choke hold as a method to subdue the disorderly, because the Lefty Libs have screamed at the top of thir lungs and filed law suits over "excessive force".

It's just another Catch 22 situation for the police: damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Like I said in an earlier post, I'm all for going back to the always reliable .38 S&W Police Special.

[RightTurns]

" . . . video of the big bad police clubbing "poor unfortunate helpless" . . . " . . . is the very reason we have tasers. Departments all over the country have ceased using the night stick and choke hold as a method to subdue the disorderly, because the Lefty Libs have screamed at the top of thir lungs and filed law suits over "excessive force".

It's just another Catch 22 situation for the police: damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Like I said in an earlier post, I'm all for going back to the always reliable .38 S&W Police Special. They use a wand or their flashlight. Much smaller and portable. But that demands close contact, which the taser has eliminated. And it's not just the LEFTY LIBS who weigh into this discussion. It's law enforcement, for the most part!

But law enforcement should never be the final say in what methods are appropriate for subduing or diffusing volatile situations. They are a public safety organization....and we should never take the "public" aspect out of the equation.

[Rhino]

The issue of people with hidden or unknown medical conditions who are dying as a result of being tazed, needs to be further evaluated. After all, hasn't the entire airline industry been forced to stop doling out peanuts because a small number of the population are allergic to them?The airline industry doesn't have to worry about passengers hurting themselves or others because they don't have peanuts.

But to randomly use tasers without forethought and other methods being used first, is endangering a certain group of UNARMED people for no other reason than to diffuse the situation in the easiest way possible for law enforcement.Randomly?? Are you serious? If they are using them casually, then your point might apply, but that's a big 'if'. I imagine it happens sometimes, if for no reason rather than the law of averages, but I've seen absolutely no indication that this is some widespread, systemic problem. Since tasers have saved countless lives, it doesn't really make sense to curb their use if there isn't a verifiable problem with them.

Yes, the injuries to police officers are reduced which greatly decreases the cost to departments, but in almost EVERY case of a taser being used, we are ordering ambulances for the victims. The cost of that cancels out the cost of injured officers.Where on earth did you get that idea? Very few end up in ambulances. Before tasers, quite a few did though.

I'm on the fence about it.Good. Skepticism is a healthy thing, taken in moderation. :D

[RightTurns]

Where on earth did you get that idea? Very few end up in ambulances. Before tasers, quite a few did though. From my job. The police request an ambulance after just about every tazing incident.

They do the same for pepper spray, also.

[Rhino]

Really? They don't do that here, except maybe to have the paramedics run a cursory check as a precaution. If there are no significant injuries, they go directly to jail without passing Go. They didn't do that when I lived in Nebraska either. Maybe different jurisdictions have different rules. But since you mentioned the cost of that, we have to consider the cost of the alternatives. How many ambulances would have been needed if unruly people could not be subdued with tasers? How many injuries might there be, and how serious might those injuries be? I have no problem with an ambulance being called, even if it's done as overkill such as where you are. The alternatives are far worse, IMO.

[RightTurns]

Load and go (without passing the heath professionals) is rare in my jurisdiction. I'm sure a lot of it is CYA, but that's a big part of public safety.

[Rhino]

I'm sure a lot of it is CYA
Yep.

[Incident_command]

In my neck of the woods, if you get hit with a tazer you have to go to the ER for the barbs to be removed, and a tetanus shot.Them barbs go in nice and deep and put the bite on you like a fish hook.
If a person is hit with pepper spray we respond for eye flushing for both the bad guy and often the other cops on scene:rotflmbo: . Also, after a bad guy died from sickle cell related to the spraying, we now are often called out for possible respiratory trouble.
In the past the local jails had infirmaries to do this, while they still do it's not like it was and local ER's do the medical clearence if theres any doubt.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Anyone have a taser handy when Teddy gets into his limo to go home from the bar?" --Foquet

The police there gots to have a special one that utilizes double whale harpoons for all that blubber.

[DoctorDoom]

The police there gots to have a special one that utilizes double whale harpoons for all that blubber.And they power it from the utility primaries.