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jayson

07-10-2006, 03:13 PM

Pot church takes a hit

S. Arizona couple face prison for what they say is religious use of marijuana
By Stephanie Innes
Arizona Daily Star
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 07.09.2006

<script type="text/javascript">OAS_AD('300x250_1')</script><script language="JavaScript">  </script><object classid="clsid<img src=" http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/images/smilies/biggrin.gif="" alt="" title="Big Grin" smilieid="3" class="inlineimg" border="0"></object>PIMA — The Church of Cognizance, which has quietly operated here since 1991, has an unusual tenet — its worshippers deify and use marijuana as part of their faith.

Until federal authorities charged them with possessing 172 pounds of their leafy green sacrament earlier this year, church founders Dan and Mary Quaintance say they smoked, ate or drankmarijuana daily as a way of becoming more spiritually enlightened.

But now, with added conspiracy charges, the Quaintances face up to 40 years each in prison in a case they call religious persecution.
Federal prosecutors say religious freedom does not exempt the use of illegal drugs. The Quaintances say it does. They also say a recent U.S. Supreme Court decision allowing a religious group's use of a hallucinogenic tea containing a federally banned substance should nullify the charges against them.

Curious what you all think about false (or "legitimate") religions that use freedom of religion to practice illegal activities. What happens when NAMBLA sets up the Church of Man-Boy Loving that says that porking young boys brings you closer to god?

Opinions?

(EDIT: Ooops, forgot link. Here ya go: http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/137087.php )

gnome

07-10-2006, 03:25 PM

One easy distinction to make is if the illegal behavior harms others. There's probably more to consider than that, but it's enough to prevent what you were worried about.

DoctorDoom

07-10-2006, 03:27 PM

The Rastafarians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari_movement) use weed as a "sacrament" (http://altreligion.about.com/library/faqs/bl_rastafarianism.htm). Ergo, "The Church of Cognizance" has a precedent.

Honolulu, HI: A three-judge panel for the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled this week to limit federal prosecutions of Rastafarians who use marijuana for sacramental purposes on federal property or in U.S. territories. The judges determined that protections granted by a 1993 federal religious-freedom law permits the personal use and possession of marijuana - but not the sale or importation of marijuana - for religious purposes.

Attorney Graham Boyd of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) Drug Litigation Project, who argued the case, disputes that distinction. "It's the equivalent to saying wine is a necessary sacrament for some Christians but you have to grow your own grapes," he said. He intends to seek a review by the full appellate court, sitting en banc.Ninth Circuit Recognizes Religious Use of Marijuana (http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5308)

ConspiracyBuff

07-10-2006, 03:40 PM

My thoughts exactly Doom....

Jayson I think you would be surprised at just how many law abiding, hard-working, and decent folks are closet weed smokers. This is the least of offenses in my book, let them smoke their weed as long as they are not harming anyone or being activist with their beliefs.

I hate to be the one to have to throw this out there but there are most definately good Christians who smoke weed too...they do believe it is spiritual...I am not saying I agree or disagree. Would anyone like to point me to scripture dealing with the subject in a negative way? You always hear, Jesus never said anything about drugs...maybe I should leave this one to the Religion forum?

Rink

07-10-2006, 03:40 PM

Sorry but I dont see any historic use of Pot as a religious thing, I can understand the use of Peyote as a religious item, as the Native Americans did use it for quite a long time.

Just dont see the same historical point with Marijuana as with peyote.

UNLESS someone can give me a historical example that goes back further than this last century.

Gonzo67

07-10-2006, 03:58 PM

As long as they are growing it themselves (not importing and thus providing support for the illegal cartels), and are not selling it, and it's being used only by their "congregation members", on the church property, I say leave them alone and let them fry their brain cells.

Alcohol is legal in the united states. Every day there are deaths on our roads and highways where alcohol is a factor. Yet alcohol remains legal, and the RESULTS of it's abuse are dealt with through the law. Why would it be so different or difficult to do the same with pot?

I don't recall ever watching the news and seeing a 12 car pile-up on the freeway and hearing the words "marijuana is believed to be the cause". I don't smoke it myself. But I do have friends that do. I've seen them get stoned. I see what they do when they are stoned. They don't smoke a joint and then suddenly get the urge to go driving somewhere. They get stoned, then get the urge to eat a twinky, watch cartoons and laugh at the stupidest shit imaginable.

I was in a car and one of my friends was driving, he had just smoked a joint with a couple other people, and we were headed home from a party. Was I worried about getting into an accident? Nope. Not at all. Simple truth is, we weren't likely to do much damage traveling at that brisk 15 miles per hour. What I found absolutely hilarious was, that even at 15 mph, he made the comment that he had better "slow down or we're gonna get busted!"

People argue that Pot is a "gate way" drug. That smoking it leads to other drugs. That may be true, but not everyone who smokes pot also smokes crack, or shoots heroin. None of my friends do any drugs other than pot. Some of them have been smoking pot for quite a long time. They don't have needles in their arm, they're not dropping 20 grand a week on coke, they're not ripping off their family or friends to buy another "rock".

Do I condone their pot use? Not at all. I have in fact told them that it'll screw their brain up eventually. But they're free, white and over 21. I can not live their life for them. All I can do is tell them what I think and let them decide for themselves. Do I think they are hurting anyone but them selves? Nope. If I did, I would not hesitate to point that out to them.

The fact is, marijuana is no more dangerous than alcohol is. And I honestly believe is LESS dangerous in most instances. Yet we tolerate alcohol and even incorporate it into our lives whether we drink it or not. It's prescribed by doctors for various medical reasons (whether you think it should be or not). When was the last time you heard of a doctor prescribing a 6 pack of bud and bottle of Mad Dog 20/20 to a patient?

As stated in the article, Christian religions has for the longest time used wine in it's sacrament. Alcohol being used in religion. Whats so different about using Marijuana?

jayson

07-10-2006, 04:00 PM

RE: Gnome
I was not arguing that smoking pot is on par with pedophilia, my argument is that in law, you cannot make exceptions... You cannot say that it's OK to smoke pot because of religion but not ok to engage in other activities because of religion. Granted, pedophilia is a long way off, but it's coming, no doubt. Even the pot or peyote issues set standards --- if I can smoke pot in a religious context, why can't I not eat mushrooms? do cocaine? burn consenting women's genitals because it brings me closer to my god?... all these would be challenged in court and the further morals disappear in this country, the more these will be upheld in a constitutional context.

RE: CB
You say this as if I am not aware. I am very aware at the level of pot usage in this country, but this does not validate it or make it a legal activity in any way. Jaywalking is still illegal no matter how many people do it...

Kathy29

07-10-2006, 04:09 PM

Los Angeles was home to the Church of the Most High Goddess a few years ago. The "worshippers" would donate to the Church a sum of money and take their sacrament, which was sex with the Most High Goddess. For a lesser sum, a worshipper could have sex with one of the priestesses.

The place was raided and the parties charged with pandering, prostitution and operating a house of prostitution. The Most High claimed it was a legitimate religion.

The courts held that the whoreshippers were absolutely free to believe that sex with the Most High Goddess was a sacrament, but engaging in sex under these circumstances was prostitution. Everyone went to prison.

A few years before that, the Rastafarians claimed that a religious prohibition demanded that they eat only steak and further demanded that steaks be provided for all the Rastafarians in prison in accordance with their religious beliefs. Again, they were free to believe that they are required to eat only steak, but would not be served steak daily.

I hope that the pot church goes the same way. Round them up and ship them off to the nearest pokey.

Gonzo67

07-10-2006, 04:17 PM

Sorry but I don't see any historic use of Pot as a religious thing, I can understand the use of Peyote as a religious item, as the Native Americans did use it for quite a long time.

Just dont see the same historical point with Marijuana as with peyote.

UNLESS someone can give me a historical example that goes back further than this last century.

Well, to start I'll be perfectly clear because I believe my last post in this thread may have been "misleading". The Rastafarian, or Rastafari is not a "religion". It's a culture. Much the same as the Native Americans use of peyote. Yes, the Native Americans used peyote in spiritual ceremonies, but, and I may be wrong here, I don't think you can actually call it a "religion". This was practiced by all members of their tribe. It was a way of life with the Native Americans. Thus it's a cultural issue and not "religious".

The Cultural use of marijuana goes back well beyond a century. Though I believe that it wasn't until sometime in this century they were referred to as "Rastafarians" or more correctly, "Rastafari". (in most circles, "Rastafarian" is not considered a "polite" or proper term to use). It emerged from Babylonia and Ethiopia. And it bases allot of it's beliefs on the Bible. Pot, referred to as Ganga, is believed to provide a sort of "spiritual healing".

Longhorn_Platinum

07-10-2006, 04:36 PM

Kathy29:
Los Angeles was home to the Church of the Most High Goddess a few years ago. The "worshippers" would donate to the Church a sum of money and take their sacrament, which was sex with the Most High Goddess. For a lesser sum, a worshipper could have sex with one of the priestesses.

:moo: You know what's the worst thing about beïng an atheïst? You have nobody to talk to while you're having an orgasm.

:uhh: Okay, I'll shut up, now.

gnome

07-10-2006, 04:57 PM

RE: Gnome
I was not arguing that smoking pot is on par with pedophilia, my argument is that in law, you cannot make exceptions... You cannot say that it's OK to smoke pot because of religion but not ok to engage in other activities because of religion. Granted, pedophilia is a long way off, but it's coming, no doubt. Even the pot or peyote issues set standards --- if I can smoke pot in a religious context, why can't I not eat mushrooms? do cocaine? burn consenting women's genitals because it brings me closer to my god?... all these would be challenged in court and the further morals disappear in this country, the more these will be upheld in a constitutional context.

Who says you cannot codify exceptions? As long as a valid distinction exists, it could be a valid basis for exception. maybe not always, but certiainly not NEVER either...

True Grace

07-10-2006, 05:25 PM

:moo: You know what's the worst thing about beïng an atheïst? You have nobody to talk to while you're having an orgasm.

:uhh: Okay, I'll shut up, now.

I don't think it is a coincidence that we all seem to call out to God when we are in the throes of ecstasy. Even atheists do it. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v250/Elle232002/th_huh2.gif

Gonzo67

07-10-2006, 06:28 PM

I don't think it is a coincidence that we all seem to call out to God when we are in the throes of ecstasy. Even atheists do it. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v250/Elle232002/th_huh2.gif

I don't do that. I call out my own name. After all, I'm the one doing all the work, why should I give credit to someone else? :D

Gonzo67

07-10-2006, 06:30 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm not "selfish". I give the woman the obligatory "Oh, by the way, you were pretty good to. And you're welcome" afterwords. She was there, she deserves it.

:D

True Grace

07-10-2006, 10:17 PM

Gonzo, you need to have a talk with your woman if you are doing all the work. :evilgrin:

Gonzo67

07-11-2006, 12:30 AM

Gonzo, you need to have a talk with your woman if you are doing all the work. :evilgrin:

Don't get me wrong now... she does her part. Like moves her head over a bit when someone scores a goal so I don't miss it. :naughty: Let's me put the ashtray on her forehead so I have a place to put my cigarette out. :kos: All the "little" things one would expect...

:motor: