Brave grandma arrested after standing up to yobs

[Rink]

Brave grandma arrested after standing up to yobs

By IAN DRURY, Daily Mail

22:00pm 4th August 2006

After months of being taunted by a gang of yobs, grandmother Diane Bond finally stood up to them when she was abused while walking her pet dog. During a torrent of foul-mouthed abuse, the frail 64-year-old prodded the teenager ringleader gently in the stomach when he urged her to "Hit me, if you dare".

Moments later, the 5ft 1ins pensioner found herself flat on her back and nursing a broken arm after the 15-year-old boy, who was 7 inches taller, pushed her to the ground. But to add insult to injury, police officers arrested her for assaulting a child after his mother moaned he had been attacked.

Now Mrs Bond must report to a police station 30 miles from her home in Llandrindod Wells, Powys, Wales, at the end of the month to find out if she will be charged. Last night the retired lab technician spoke of her distress. "I am in shock and very, very teary," she said.

"I have never been in any trouble before. I just want to enjoy my evenings walking my dog in peace. I am being treated like a criminal because a gang of yobs have nothing better to do than pick on an old lady."

Residents of her quiet street have complained to the police and council for several months about youths causing anti-social behaviour. In the latest letter to Powys County Council in June, residents said they had suffered an "endless stream" of damage to property and cars, intimidation, vandalism, noise and rubbish being hurled into gardens by up to 30 youths aged 11 to 17.

Signed by 35 fed-up people, it added: "Collectively, we are sick and tired of the situation and our frustration is now close to boiling over."

More on this Story (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=399145&in_page_id=1770)

[Beowulf]

I'll pay her fine.....and pound the little shit who caused the trouble!:flame:

[Wolfcounsel]

Was that Wales, or Candy Ass Land?

[UnkHiram]

Pay her fine, and jail the punk and his mother!

[Gonzo67]

I am being treated like a criminal because a gang of yobs have nothing better to do than pick on an old lady."


Ok, forgive me... but I thought "yobs" were what mexicans came here to get.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Ok, forgive me... but I thought "yobs" were what mexicans came here to get." --Gonzo67

And Swedes.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Longhorn_Platinum]

:question: Shouldn't they go to Sweden to find those?

[Wolfcounsel]

"Shouldn't they go to Sweden to find those?" --Longhorn_Platinum

Yumpin' Yiminy! Mexicans and Swedes come here for "yobs".

[Riverboat]

For what it's worth, I posted this comment for the Daily Mail:

I can assure Mrs. Bond her situation is shared by hundreds of other pensioners in my country who are unable to even leave their domicile. Millions of Americans share her disgust of yobs, gangstas, punks, shaved-head cretins, etc. I'm willing to bet that millions would be willing to cover her fine, and hire someone to tap that candy-ass on the shin with a foot-long pipe to remind him he must respect his elders.

[Rink]

its somethin that the cops Arrest the Old Lady for 'abusing' that punk, when SHE's the one that has a broken arm for what its worth from the incident, what about ELDER ABUSE??? Have they ever thought of that?

Personally she should sue those cops for ignoring elder abuse by gangbanging young toughs.

[Riverboat]

Excellent point, Rink.

[PaulRevere]

This is a microcosm of socialism: tolerate the bullies, criminals, and terrorists, and blame and persecute the innocent and defenders of freedom. Thus we see how they protect murderers from execution while support killing the unborn. We see how they sympathize with terrorists and tyrants like Hezbollah and Saddam while hating Israel and the U.S.

Socialism/liberalism has rotted the core of western societies.

[kkkron]

That's not true. This is one case where the poolice are ****ed up and arrested the old woman because the complaint was made against the old woman. The police have a duty to investigate accusations made by anyone. Now that they know what really happened, do you really think that the yob will get off without punishment?

[PaulRevere]

That's not true. This is one case where the poolice are ****ed up and arrested the old woman because the complaint was made against the old woman. The police have a duty to investigate accusations made by anyone. Now that they know what really happened, do you really think that the yob will get off without punishment?
They had to arrest a 64-year-old woman with a broken arm to find out what really happened while she was walking her dog? Like they don't know who the delinquents are and what they've been doing in the neighborhood? Get real.

[ConspiracyBuff]

kkkron there is no way you could defend these cops, face the facts dude.

[PaulRevere]

The cops get multiple complaints on these hooligans and choose to nothing, and Klu thinks that because an accusation is made against an old woman with a broken arm, the police have no choice but to arrest her.

These cowards are just taking the easy way against the old lady, just as liberals find it easier and safer to condemn Israel and the US than terrorists.

[Lazarus]

kkkron, did you reed the entire story? Did you read even the part that Rink posted? This is not a first time, isolated incident... The cops were fully briefed on the violent, destructive behavior of these little hoods...

As much as I am fond of the home of my ancestors, and the dear friends I have there, I have to say that this is an indication of how badly the social structure in England is collapsing... England is an example of how socialism will comsume and destroy a nation that was once a great empire...

One wonders how bad things must become before the decent people in Great Britain take their society back...

[kkkron]

It's not really the social structure collapsing. There is much more crime in America. It's just that over here the police force sucks (a lot), as do many other things. That's not a result of the government being left, it's a result of them being incompetent.

You're right about the police not investigating the allegations made against the yobs before the attack, I read it wrong and thought that the petition was AFTER the woman was arrested. That's the police over here for you, they hardly ever respond to calls made unless they are of serious charges ie assault. The reason the old woman got arrested was that she was accused of assault. The kids were only accused of vandalism, and the police barely ever bother with that, it's just too common.

[ConspiracyBuff]

Dude...you are comparing the crime rate of England to the US. Thats like comparing France to South America. There are alot more people in the US than England.

[markus3622]

Dude...you are comparing the crime rate of England to the US. Thats like comparing France to South America. There are alot more people in the US than England.

Eh? Crime rates are usually calculated per head of population.

[kkkron]

No, he's right I worded it wrong. I said 'crime', not 'crime rates'.

[ConspiracyBuff]

No, he's right I worded it wrong. I said 'crime', not 'crime rates'.
<!-- / message -->
Exactly.

[kkkron]

I meant crime rates though. The bad wording was unintentional.

[Riverboat]

It's not really the social structure collapsing. . . It's just that over here the police force sucks (a lot), as do many other things. That's not a result of the government being left, it's a result of them being incompetent.When incompetent police arrest a 64-year old woman with a fractured wrist for assault after receiving repeated complaints of punks terrorizing defenseless people and vandalism, sounds to me like the social structure is collapsing.

To be sure, we have crime problems in the U.S. At least over here punks have to wonder if their next victim may be packing heat. If granny had pulled out a small caliber pistol, it might have been a happy ending:

64-year old pensioner puts a bullet in yob/Others try to escape but are rounded up by neighbors/Bodies to be dumped overboard into the Wye/ fireworks at 10:00.

[ConspiracyBuff]

LOL. Whoo Hoo, I'll bring my finest bottle of wine.

[kkkron]

To be sure, we have crime problems in the U.S. At least over here punks have to wonder if their next victim may be packing heat. If granny had pulled out a small caliber pistol, it might have been a happy ending:

64-year old pensioner puts a bullet in yob/Others try to escape but are rounded up by neighbors/Bodies to be dumped overboard into the Wye/ fireworks at 10:00.

Well then you and I have different ideas of happy endings. I'm going to admit, mine doesn't really sound very likely, but one can always dream.

Teenager ends up carrying 64-year old pensioner's shopping home for her after coming to his senses. Two new best friends decide to have major house party. All welcome.

[ConspiracyBuff]

You Can Sayyyy He's A Dreammmer, But He's Not The Only One....

[kkkron]

When incompetent police arrest a 64-year old woman with a fractured wrist for assault after receiving repeated complaints of punks terrorizing defenseless people and vandalism, sounds to me like the social structure is collapsing.

The police as a whole don't always investigate complaints of vandalism and intimidation. Apparently they prioritise. Although the fact that we still have that stolen van on our drive outside nearly a year after we told the police we'd bought a stolen van doesn't sound too efficient...

[kkkron]

Imagine aaall the people
Living life in peeeace...

[ConspiracyBuff]

Yous seem to simultaneously defend and rank on your police...it's quite amusing.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Imagine aaall the people
Living life in peeeace...

It takes two to agree to peace . . . hard to establish it when one of the two wants to blow the other off the face of the earth. One cannot compromise or negotiate with evil, lest they find themselves dead (and evil wins).

[kkkron]

Umm... I'm going to have to assume you mean the granny wants to blow the yobs off the face of the Earth.

[ConspiracyBuff]

She is talking bigger picture there Kron. I know your smarter than that.

[ConspiracyBuff]

Not to mention it would be the yobs who want to blow the granny off the face of the earth in your little scenario, considering they are the evil and instigating ones.....you do agree with that right?

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Umm... I'm going to have to assume you mean the granny wants to blow the yobs off the face of the Earth.

No, the yobs (evil) wanted to harrass the Granny . . . she didn't provoke them, they took it upon theirselves to break the peace. If she'd have broken out into John Lennon's opus, do you think they would have left her alone?

BTW, I was speaking more in a general tone, not specific to the case of granny and the yob's -- it was in reply to your song offering.

[kkkron]

I know, I know, I was joking. Most of my friends have been mugged at least once. John Lennon didn't help them then.

[Un Con Troll Able]

While I was stationed at a military base (RAF Greenham Common) in central England, one of the nearby communities was having a, shall we say, significant problem with yobbos running amuck and causing property damage.

Well, some of the adults finally had enough and they picked off one of the ringleaders one night. They, wearing masks so the youthful offender wouldn't recognize them, roughly bundled the thug into the back of a van, took him to an isolated location, stripped him naked, bound him between two poles, and took several full frontal nudity shots of the momma's boy. In the background were the concerned citizens -- all wearing masks or disguises -- with one of them holding up a sign that disclosed the boy's name, address, and phone number. At the bottom of the sign was written, "This will happen to your sons if you don't start acting like good parents and they don't stop acting like savages." (or something to that effect).

They developed the photos, made several hundred copies of them on a copier, then shoved the copies into the door mail slots of virtually every home in the community -- as well as posting them everywhere in the town center.

Suffices to say, that boy was too ashamed to show his face again publicly for a very long time (although his "parents" screamed bloody murder) and, lo and behold!, the other members of the little turds in the toilet gang also seemed to get the message -- judging from the marked decrease in the acts of vandalism, harrassment, theft, and other criminal behavior attributed to them.

[Rhino]

Must have been before my time. Never heard of them when I was at RAF Mildenhall.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

But, but, but . . . they could have just sung them a few Lennon tunes! Wouldn't that have made it all better??? Or maybe quote a little Rodney King . . . "C-c-can't we all just get along?" :smirky:

[Un Con Troll Able]

Must have been before my time. Never heard of them when I was at RAF Mildenhall.

Heard of who? Yobs have been around in that country for decades -- "Nothin' like a night of Paki bashing, mates." was a common expression at the time.

If you're referring to Greenham, it was shut by the INF Treaty in 1991.

I served two tours there...and would have glad served another two. I loved that base/area.

[Un Con Troll Able]

Besides, Mildenhall (F-111 base, as I recall) was a good 150 miles away. I loved Greenham's isolation -- and only 1200 military there.

[Rhino]

Heard of who? Yobs have been around in that country for decades -- "Nothin' like a night of Paki bashing, mates." was a common expression at the time.Never heard of them.

If you're referring to Greenham, it was shut by the INF Treaty in 1991.

I served two tours there...and would have glad served another two. I loved that base/area.No, not Greenham Common. Does "yobs" refer to CND? Them I heard of.

[kkkron]

But, but, but . . . they could have just sung them a few Lennon tunes! Wouldn't that have made it all better??? Or maybe quote a little Rodney King . . . "C-c-can't we all just get along?" :smirky:

It's a depressing world when that doesn't make things better. If Lennon can't save you, who can?

[kkkron]

Yous seem to simultaneously defend and rank on your police...it's quite amusing.

Yeah well, I have mixed emotions concerning the police. On one hand, they are stretched thinly, but on the other hand, they are inefficient.

[Rhino]

Besides, Mildenhall (F-111 base, as I recall) was a good 150 miles away. I loved Greenham's isolation -- and only 1200 military there.
That was Lakenheath. They have F-15s now, I think. Mildenhall was a tanker/cargo/reconnaissance base. It was pretty small too, about 3,000 when I was there.

[kkkron]

While I was stationed at a military base (RAF Greenham Common) in central England, one of the nearby communities was having a, shall we say, significant problem with yobbos running amuck and causing property damage.

Well, some of the adults finally had enough and they picked off one of the ringleaders one night. They, wearing masks so the youthful offender wouldn't recognize them, roughly bundled the thug into the back of a van, took him to an isolated location, stripped him naked, bound him between two poles, and took several full frontal nudity shots of the momma's boy. In the background were the concerned citizens -- all wearing masks or disguises -- with one of them holding up a sign that disclosed the boy's name, address, and phone number. At the bottom of the sign was written, "This will happen to your sons if you don't start acting like good parents and they don't stop acting like savages." (or something to that effect).

They developed the photos, made several hundred copies of them on a copier, then shoved the copies into the door mail slots of virtually every home in the community -- as well as posting them everywhere in the town center.

Suffices to say, that boy was too ashamed to show his face again publicly for a very long time (although his "parents" screamed bloody murder) and, lo and behold!, the other members of the little turds in the toilet gang also seemed to get the message -- judging from the marked decrease in the acts of vandalism, harrassment, theft, and other criminal behavior attributed to them.

Nah, nobody would have taken offense unless they posted obcscene pictures of the kid through old lady's doors. It can give them heart attacks, and its a violation of law. Although the police would have laughed and taken the piss as much as any man.

[Un Con Troll Able]

Yobs is a derogatory term for "disaffected youths."

Y - O - B - S .... B - O - Y - S

[kkkron]

Heard of who? Yobs have been around in that country for decades -- "Nothin' like a night of Paki bashing, mates." was a common expression at the time.

Sadly, that's true.

And I've only had personal experience of 1 RAF base - RAF Cranwell. Done all 3 of my AEFs there. Meant to have done 4 and a powered gliding session at Syerston, but Cadets get screwed over a lot.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

It's a depressing world when that doesn't make things better. If Lennon can't save you, who can?

Well, that would be Jesus Christ, but since you don't believe in Him or His Father, I guess Lennon is as good as the next guy, cause believing in them will lead to the same place anyhow, :smirky: .

[Un Con Troll Able]

That was Lakenheath. They have F-15s now, I think. Mildenhall was a tanker/cargo/reconnaissance base. It was pretty small too, about 3,000 when I was there.

I only made it up that way one time in five years, so my memory is a little fuzzy as to what base had what kind of aircraft.

We had GLCMs. Those CNDers (aka "Peace Women") hated us beyond description.

And the feeling was mutual.

[kkkron]

Well, that would be Jesus Christ, but since you don't believe in Him or His Father, I guess Lennon is as good as the next guy, cause believing in them will lead to the same place anyhow, :smirky: .

Lennon as a Jesus substitute? Hmm, an interesting thought.

And for the record, I do believe in a God, just not one covered by any of the religions so far. I don't know a thing about this God, I just have my own ideas. I prefer finding my own way to picking a ready-made religion - 'Just Add Faith!!'

[Rhino]

I only made it up that way one time in five years, so my memory is a little fuzzy as to what base had what kind of aircraft.

We had GLCMs. Those CNDers (aka "Peace Women") hated us beyond description.

And the feeling was mutual.
They only visited us a few times, especially when you guys dropped in. They did get in and paint grafitti on one of the aircraft one night. The SPs caught major hell for that.

[Kathy29]

Don't know about the UK but gangs of kids beat up old folks all the time, robbery or just for fun. They know that even in self-defense an adult will be accused of child abuse if they are touched. Some gangs have little divisions of kids just for this purpose.

[DoctorDoom]

It's not really the social structure collapsing. There is much more crime in America. It's just that over here the police force sucks (a lot), as do many other things. That's not a result of the government being left, it's a result of them being incompetent.Do you recall this story from Blighty, child?

Burglars will be allowed to escape without punishment under new instructions sent to all police forces. Police have been told they can let them off the threat of a court appearance and instead allow them to go with a caution.

The same leniency will be shown to criminals responsible for more than 60 other different offences, ranging from arson through vandalism to sex with underage girls.

New rules sent to police chiefs by the Home Office set out how seriously various crimes should be regarded, and when offenders who admit to them should be sent home with a caution.

A caution counts as a criminal record but means the offender does not face a court appearance which would be likely to end in a fine, a community punishment or jail.

Some serious offences - including burglary of a shop or office, threatening to kill, actual bodily harm, and possession of Class A drugs such as heroin or cocaine - may now be dealt with by caution if police decide that would be the best approach.'Let burglars off with caution', police told (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=381799&in_page_id=1770)

England is being governed by flaming arseholes.

[Un Con Troll Able]

We had the longest active runway in Europe, but no planes. However, we had an SR-71 land there and stay one night. The anti-nuke kooks cut the wire and threw red paint all over it!!!! They also snuck up behind the guard shack near one of the gates and scratched the words "RAF Greenham Common" (a la "Welcome to RAF Greenham Common") and painted the word "Hell."

You talk about the you-know-what hitting the fan afterwards with the cops (both the SPs and the Bobbies).

And considering the expense of the plane -- black radar absorbing paint over its titanium shell -- goodness knows how much it cost to fix.

[Rink]

We had the longest active runway in Europe, but no planes. However, we had an SR-71 land there and stay one night. The anti-nuke kooks cut the wire and threw red paint all over it!!!! They also snuck up behind the guard shack near one of the gates and scratched the words "RAF Greenham Common" (a la "Welcome to RAF Greenham Common") and painted the word "Hell."

You talk about the you-know-what hitting the fan afterwards with the cops (both the SPs and the Bobbies).

And considering the expense of the plane -- black radar absorbing paint over its titanium shell -- goodness knows how much it cost to fix.

Had they been spies they would have had pictures and categorized that plane instead of splashed red paint.

Sounds like that base had piss poor security esp when it came to high security planes being there.

[DoctorDoom]

There is much more crime in America. ... Most of my friends have been mugged at least once.In my nearly 64 years, I have never known anyone who was mugged. Tell us again how "safe" you blokes are in comparison to me.

[kkkron]

RAF bases don't have uber security, they're not like completely covered steel domes. In fact, the only one I've been to is pretty much a few fields with some buildings on them, right next to the road.

[Un Con Troll Able]

The security wasn't poor; it was simply an unreasonable task considering our manpower limitations. We had eight miles of perimeter fence at that facility -- much of it obscured by wooded areas and not illuminated at night. With only 100 perimeter security personnel, the kooks could simply bide their time as our guys (and the Brits) conducted their roving patrols.

As an aside, I would mention that the Brits came up with a novel idea of how to deal with detecting the incursions. They purchased a couple of gaggle of geese and penned them in near several of the commonly breached perimeter areas. As soon as the "women" (lesbians who lived in vans adjacent to the gates -- for SEVEN years) got near the areas, the geese would squawk something fierce. They were the perfect alarm system. Infuriated by their effectiveness, the women got on the base one night and stole the geese.

I would also mention that most of our security was devoted to defending our GAMA (GLCM Alert and Maintenance Area). That was a deadly force use area and those lesbos knew it. They never touched the super fence that surrounded it. However, a anti-nuke kook visiting them from the Netherlands (about the same time Yoko Ono spent one night with them) tried to scale it one night. She was dragged down through the razor wire enmeshed with it -- and required over 300 stitches to deal with her wounds (and she got two years in prison for it).

Another one of the kooks was decapitated by a lorry (18-wheeler) when she ran out into the road to stop one of our asset dispersals (mobile launch vehicle deployments to Salisbury Plain near Stonehenge). Talk about a bloody mess.

And I could go on and on. They were entertaining, that's for sure.

[Rhino]

And considering the expense of the plane -- black radar absorbing paint over its titanium shell -- goodness knows how much it cost to fix.
Not as much as you might think. :biggrin:

[Rhino]

RAF bases don't have uber security, they're not like completely covered steel domes. In fact, the only one I've been to is pretty much a few fields with some buildings on them, right next to the road.
Depended on the base. And the security was supposed to be layered. Different assets had different pririty levels attached to them, and supposedly commensurate security. My aircraft and the SR-71 were priority two assets unless they were spun up for launch on an operational sortie, in which case they became priority one. In any case, there is no way a protester should ever have been able to reach them.

[Rhino]

The security wasn't poor; it was simply an unreasonable task considering our manpower limitations. We had eight miles of perimeter fence at that facility -- much or it obscured by wooded areas and not illuminated at night. With only 100 perimeter security personnel, the kooks could simply bide their time as our guys (and the Brits) conducted their roving patrols.
Same where I was.

[Un Con Troll Able]

Not as much as you might think. :biggrin:

Well, they retired those bad boys not too long afterwards anyway. In fact, my replacement at Greenham was married to an SR-71 squadron commander.

He and the other pilots were heartbroken.

Or maybe they kept a few in active service -- I only know that they intended to retire them all.

Fast, fast plane. Couple that with a miniscule radar cross-section, and it was nearly impossible to even get a lock on it -- much less shoot it down.

[DoctorDoom]

Well, the "nonexistent" Auroras (http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/aurora.htm) rendered the "nonexistent" Blackbirds obsolete. Such is life.

[Rhino]

Fast, fast plane. Couple that with a miniscule radar cross-section, and it was nearly impossible to even get a lock on it -- much less shoot it down.
I know. I worked with them. And as far as the paint goes, think 'heat' and you may get an idea why it might not cost much to remove it. :biggrin:

[Rhino]

Well, the "nonexistent" Auroras (http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/aurora.htm) rendered the "nonexistent" Blackbirds obsolete. Such is life.
Yeah. Got one in my garage. They had a garage sale at Area 51 a few years back .........

[kkkron]

In my nearly 64 years, I have never known anyone who was mugged. Tell us again how "safe" you blokes are in comparison to me.

I live in Nottingham, which I believe is the worst city in the UK for shootings and knife crime. Also, most of the people I know are 15. When you were 15, it was 1957.

[Rhino]

My kids don't know anyone who has been shot or mugged either.

[ConspiracyBuff]

I'm 19, don't know any American that has been shot or mugged either. My girlfriend is European- she has been mugged though, go figure. All the buses say, watch for pickpockets...

[Rhino]

I can't find the most recent statistics, but....

According to 1995 victim surveys — which measure robbery, assault, burglary, and motor vehicle theft — crime rates are all higher in England than the United Stateshttp://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cjusew96h.pdf

That only goes to 1996, and I believe their crime rate has eased some since then. Our murder rate was still much higher though.

[queue]

According to a Bureau of Justice Statistics report of Crime and Justice in the United States and in England and Wales, 1981-96, from the Crimes Rates From Police Records (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/html/cjusew96/crpr.htm) section:According to latest police statistics (1996), is the serious crime rate higher in the United States or England?


In 1996, rates of murder, rape, and robbery recorded by the police were all higher in the United States than in England, while assault, burglary, and motor vehicle theft rates were all higher in England than in the United States.
According to police statistics for 1996 --


the U.S. murder rate was 5.7 times higher than England's (0.074 per 1,000 population versus 0.013) (figure 5)
the U.S. rape rate was about 3 times higher than England's (0.71 per 1,000 female population versus 0.22) (figure 6)
the U.S. robbery rate was 1.4 times higher than England's (2.0 versus 1.4) (figure 7)
the English assault rate was 1.1 times higher than the U.S. rate (4.4 versus 3.9) (figure 8)
the English burglary rate was 2.4 times higher than the U.S. rate (22.4 versus 9.4) (figure 9)
the English motor vehicle theft rate was 1.8 times higher than the U.S. rate (9.5 versus 5.3) (figure 10).From the Crime Rates from Victim Surveys (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/html/cjusew96/crvs.htm) section:According to victim surveys, which country has higher crime rates?


In 1995 (the latest year that could be compared), serious crime rates measured in victim surveys were all higher in England than in the United States (statistically significant at the 95% confidence level).
According to 1995 crime victim surveys, the --

English robbery victimization rate was 1.4 times the U.S. rate (7.6 per 1,000 population versus 5.3) (figure 1)
English assault victimization rate was 2.3 times the U.S. rate (20.0 versus 8.8) (figure 2)
English burglary victimization rate was 1.7 times the U.S. rate (82.9 per 1,000 households versus 47.5) (figure 3)
English motor vehicle theft victimization rate was 2.2 times the U.S. rate (23.6 versus 10.8) (figure 4).From a February 2001 CNN article (http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/UK/02/23/crime.britain/):LONDON, England -- Britain has more victims of crime than any other country in the developed world except for Australia, a survey reports.

The survey, published in the Economist on Friday, revealed that the English and Welsh ran the greatest risk of having their car stolen compared to other rich nations.

It also said that after Australia, they were the most likely to be assaulted, robbed, sexually attacked and burgled.

[DoctorDoom]

Also, most of the people I know are 15. When you were 15, it was 1957.Irrelevant. I was never mugged, and never knew anyone who was. My kids were never mugged, and none of their friends were. My grandson just turned 16, and he has never been mugged, nor does he know a muggee.

Nottingham obviously is in need of some good old vigilante justice. Dead muggers lying in the streets each morning will have a deterrent effect on the still-living ones.

[kkkron]

OK, maybe I was wrong. But remember, there are always other variables to consider, for example the crime rates in cities. I'm not sure, but I believe a larger percentage of people in America live outside large cities than in England. Also, you need to consider the justice system and how many people it convicts/lets off. don't know how these variables would affect the results, but I do know that it makes things a hell of a lot more complicated.

And doesn't your last source disagree with your first?

[kkkron]

Irrelevant. I was never mugged, and never knew anyone who was. My kids were never mugged, and none of their friends were. My grandson just turned 16, and he has never been mugged, nor does he know a muggee.

Do you live in a large city?

Nottingham obviously is in need of some good old vigilante justice. Dead muggers lying in the streets each morning will have a deterrent effect on the still-living ones.

Most of the killings are gangland, Nottingham has more than its fair share of gangs. They're doing it for us! Most of the shootings of normal people are people caught in the crossfire. Don't let that stop you ever visiting though, it's got one of the best city centres in England. Plus an ice stadium and the Nottingham Arena.

[kkkron]

Your last source does cover the number of incarcerations per accusation though.

[Rhino]

OK, maybe I was wrong. But remember, there are always other variables to consider, for example the crime rates in cities. I'm not sure, but I believe a larger percentage of people in America live outside large cities than in England. Also, you need to consider the justice system and how many people it convicts/lets off. don't know how these variables would affect the results, but I do know that it makes things a hell of a lot more complicated.Doesn't really matter much. Both countries can be dangerous.

And doesn't your last source disagree with your first?
queue's? If you mean the car thefts, no. They match.

[kkkron]

It also said that after Australia, they were the most likely to be assaulted, robbed, sexually attacked and burgled.
In 1996, rates of murder, rape, and robbery recorded by the police were all higher in the United States than in England,
.

[Rhino]

Oh, that. Well, there is a four year difference in the stats for those reports. Maybe things got worse.

[kkkron]

Good point. But the real shocker in this thread is the fact that crime in Britain is worse than the crime in America. It was like one of the facts of life. 'At least it's not as bad as America, people die every day there.' Admittedly, your murder rate is higher, but nobody ever told us that all our other crimes were more common.

[Rhino]

Not a shocker to us. We were well aware of it because it gets brought up in the gun control debate frequently.

[Riverboat]

Well then you and I have different ideas of happy endings. I'm going to admit, mine doesn't really sound very likely, but one can always dream.

Teenager ends up carrying 64-year old pensioner's shopping home for her after coming to his senses. Two new best friends decide to have major house party. All welcome.
I'm 19, I don't know any American that has been shot or mugged either.I do - my own mother.

That's why I like my ending better.

I'm disappointed with you, KKKron. I had you figured as a pretty sensible person until you posted that asinine comment about that asinine song by John Lennon: "Lennon as a Jesus substitute? Hmm, an interesting thought."

Take the Magical Mystery Tour back to Strawberry Fields.

[kkkron]

Yeah, that was a JOKE. And I still think my ending is better. One that results in no injury and mutual understanding has to be better than one where someone dies.

[queue]

OK, maybe I was wrong. But remember, there are always other variables to consider, for example the crime rates in cities. I'm not sure, but I believe a larger percentage of people in America live outside large cities than in England. Also, you need to consider the justice system and how many people it convicts/lets off. don't know how these variables would affect the results, but I do know that it makes things a hell of a lot more complicated.

And doesn't your last source disagree with your first?I know Rhino covered this, but I am going to respond anyway. Each of the sources I quoted either used a different way of counting crime or covered a different time period. The first source used "crime recorded by police" for 1981 through 1996. This source is a little problematic since England and Wales changed the counting rules of crimes in 1998 and one of those changes was "Under the new counting rules, the statistics wherever possible measure one crime per victim; this will greatly improve the comparability between notifiable offence figures and victim surveys, such as the British Crime Survey." To see how this affected the number of crimes in the catagories, you can go to the Home Office (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/recordedcrime1.html) and scroll down to where it says "Click here for a summary of recorded crime data from 1898 to 2004/05 (excel format)" and open the speadsheet and scroll down to 1998/9 where it has two lines (one for the old counting rules and one for the new counting rules) and see how the numbers changed because of counting rules changes.

The second source is from national crime victim surveys for 1981 through 1996. Since not all crime is reported to police (nor recorded by the police as in the first source), this source is supposed to give a more realistic picture of the crime that is actually happening. The information from this source is more in line with the third source.

The third source is from the 2000 International Crime Victims Survey which is a crime victims survey of 17 industrialised nations. This uses a more current time period than the other two sources. From this Key-Findings (http://www.unicri.it/wwd/analysis/icvs/pdf_files/key2000i/index.htm)link:The reason for setting up the ICVS was the inadequacy of other measures of crime across country. Figures of offences recorded by the police are problematic due to differences in the way the police define, record and count crime. And since victims report most crimes the police know about, police figures can differ simply because of differences in reporting behaviour. It is also difficult to make comparisons of independently organised crime surveys, as these differ in design and coverage.