Democrat donor accused of sex with underage girls

[Rink]

Ignorance of age not valid defense in sex cases, expert says

By Larry Keller
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 04, 2006

Even if Palm Beach money manager Jeffrey Epstein didn't know that girls who police say gave him sexual massages at his Intracoastal home were under the legal age, that alone wouldn't have exempted him from criminal charges of sexual activity with minors.

"Ignorance is not a valid defense," said Bob Dekle, a legal skills professor who was a Lake City prosecutor for nearly 30 years, half of that time specializing in sex crimes against children.

"There is no knowledge element as far as the age is concerned," Dekle said.

After an 11-month investigation, Palm Beach police said there was probable cause to charge Epstein, 53, with unlawful sex acts with a minor and lewd and lascivious molestation. They contend that Epstein — friend of the rich and famous and financial patron of Democratic Party organizations and candidates — committed those acts with five underage girls.

In the past week, New York Attorney General and gubernatorial candidate Eliot Spitzer has returned about $50,000 in campaign contributions he received from Epstein, and Mark Green, a candidate to replace Spitzer in his current job, has returned $10,000 to him because of the Palm Beach scandal, the New York Daily News has reported.

Rather than file charges, the state attorney's office presented the case to a county grand jury. The panel indicted Epstein last week on a single, less serious charge of felony solicitation of prostitution.

The case raised eyebrows because the state attorney's office rarely, if ever, kicks such charges to a grand jury. And it increases the difficulty of prosecuting child sex abuse cases, especially when the defendant is enormously wealthy and can hire high-priced, top-tier lawyers.

At least one of Epstein's alleged victims told police he knew she was underage when the two of them got naked for massages and sexual activity. She was 16 years old at the time and said Epstein asked her questions about her high school, according to police reports.

A girl who said she met Epstein when she was 15 said he told her if she told anybody what happened at his house, bad things could happen, the police reports state.

Epstein's youngest alleged victim was 14 when she says she gave him a massage that included some sexual activity. She is now 16. The girl's father says he doesn't know whether she told Epstein her age.

"My daughter has kept a lot of what happened from me because of sheer embarrassment," he said. "But she very much looked 14. Any prudent man would have had second thoughts about that."

More on this Story (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2006/08/04/s1b_epstein_0804.html)

[Republican_Legion]

I strongly believe democrats are 1000000 to 1 more likely to be pedophiles. This is smoking gun of the link between democrats and pedophiles.

[S-T]

14 and 15?

Sick!

Even if the girls were 18 or 20, the dude is 53 years old!

Sick!

[DoctorDoom]

It's only about sex.
-- RAT mantra #3188

[Teenager]

This is only ONE of the many reasons why them dems want to lower the legal age limit.

[DesertFox]

We have very sharp differences of opinion on this sort of thing. These girls were legally minors. Dude therefore broke the law, but he wasn't sick.

When I was 18 a girl I would have sworn was older than I (and you would have, too) made it very plain that she wanted to diddle me. I obliged. Turned out she was 15. I wasn't the least sick.

My aunt married at 16. She and my Uncle were together over 60 years until he died. I know of other women who married at 15 to men with whom they had good marriages, and presumably sex, until their husbands died as old men. Nothing sick about it.

[gnome]

This is only ONE of the many reasons why them dems want to lower the legal age limit.

I missed that part of their platform, where did you hear it?

[DesertFox]

You weren't around in the Sixties when "free love" was CENTRAL to their platform.

[Beowulf]

This is only ONE of the many reasons why them dems want to lower the legal age limit.

.....and allow unrestricted abortion.

[gnome]

You weren't around in the Sixties when "free love" was CENTRAL to their platform.

Maybe "free love" was central to the hippie movement, but they were hardly in lockstep with Democrats then...

Here's the Democrats' 1968 platform, for example:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showplatforms.php?platindex=D1968

Top of their youth agenda was lowering the voting age to 18, however.

(edited to correct grammar)

[Black Phoenix]

We need to base the right to vote on accomplishment, not abitrary age, if you've made nothing of ourself and done nothing for this country, you don't need to vote, and I don't care if your sixty.

However, this is about sex not voting. Here's my take. Throw the guy who did this in the slammer for several years, he doesn't need to see the light of day for quite some time. However, unless I can see a real connection between this and a democratic party platform, I wouldn't use it as ammuniction for what's wrong with them. I'm sure many Republican supporters aren't the cleanest in the world, heck, that goes for many of our reps, but since those actions don't reflect actual party beliefs, let's not do this.

[Maggie_T]

14 and 15?

Sick!

Even if the girls were 18 or 20, the dude is 53 years old!

Sick!

I agree. These girls are young enough to be this old fart's granddaughters.

Are ALL democrats sex-obsessed?

[DeclinetoState]

Some fourteen- and fifteen-year-old girls are HOT!! That doesn't excuse anything, however.

A good rule of thumb is, if you don't know her age, she's too young.

[Black Phoenix]

A better rule of thumb:

Don't have sex until your in a committed relationship, and don't get into a committed relationship with someone until you really know them. That way you won't make a silly mistake like not realizing their age.

[S-T]

When I was 18 a girl I would have sworn was older than I (and you would have, too) made it very plain that she wanted to diddle me. I obliged. Turned out she was 15. I wasn't the least sick.

The difference, DF, is that you were 18. This guy is 53 years old.

[S-T]

When I was a sophomore in high school, the girl in my class (singular, because she was the only female sophomore in my small Christian school) could have passed for 18 or 20. She looked like a prettier, brunette version of Faith Hill with double D's. She was a year ahead of her age group in school, though - she was 14 years old until halfway through our sophomore year.

Was it be "sick" for any man to think she was attractive back in 1989? No. would it have been "sick" for a 53 year old man to have sex with her?

Absolutely.

[Black Phoenix]

What's sick is when guys have a hard time seeing beautiful women as anything but a warm place to put it. It's really disgusting when men never outgrow such. But, unfortunautely, its an ugliness we tolerate.

[Rink]

In this day and age where 'casual' sex is OK where pre-marital sex is the norm, we will get these kinds of scandals.

Had the guy stuck to the old morals he wouldnt be facing this kind of misery.

Reap what ya sow ya ole letch, he should have known the girls were too young for him but he couldnt keep his pants on or fly zipped, now he brings scandal upon himself and his party (as if 'shame' ever came into the equation anymore? Shame I think died in the 60's when this kind of casual sex with people you dont know very well became the norm).

[DesertFox]

There's not a thing "sick" about a 53-year-old man having sex with a nubile young woman. He would be sick if he couldn't take sexual interest in her.

I'm not excusing breaking marital vows or rape or statutory rape; but this guy did nothing sick. He did something illegal.

You can make a case that a nubile young woman IN AMERICA TODAY who's sexually interested in a 53-year-old man might be sick. But I stress "in America" and "today" because for most of history that's precisely what young women did, and for good reason -- sought men who had enough money to provide for them and the kids they would be expected to provide. Today in America a woman can marry a much younger man and expect to have a pretty decent life; but that's a phenomenon of the last 50 years.

You guys who insist that this dude is sick are in effect holding that most of humanity was sick for most of history. I don't agree.

But then, this is an opinion thing.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

:unsmile: I agree with the Fox. The guy's horny, not sick. But, like all horny guys, especially those mature enough to know better, he needs to learn self-control.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

:unsmile: This was just reported on The O'Reilly Factor. The prosecutor in this case is going to go easy on the defendant, & it's the same prosecutor who wanted to rake Rush Limbaugh over the coals for a far less serious offense. How typical of demonicrats to throw integrity out of the window, when one of their own gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

[DeclinetoState]

Only it wasn't his hand (although it may have been nearby), and it wasn't a cookie jar . . .

Assumptions that may keep you out of trouble:

1. Any gun you may see or find is loaded (unless you need it to save a life, of course).

2. Any unflattering e-mail about a specific person will be read by that person, irrespective of to whom it's addressed.

3. If you're a girl or woman, any guy who tells you he can't get you pregnant is lying.

4. If you're a man or boy, any girl or woman that you might be thinking of having sex with is either underage, married, or an undercover cop (especially if money is involved).

[S-T]

The way it is used in language, the word "sick" does not necessarily mean "mentally ill". It is often used to indicate a severe moral failing. This guy definately had that.

[DesertFox]

I can agree with that. Also with "sickening."