First Muslim Congressman?

[Teenager]

Memories of September 11 are still bitter, and President George Bush's war against "Islamofascism" is in full swing. But a historic new bridge between America and its Muslims is about to be built. Barring a stunning upset, Keith Ellison will next year become the first ever Muslim member of the US Congress.

First, of course, Mr Ellison, 43, has to win the election on 7 November to claim his seat. But after his hard-fought, yet convincing, win in Tuesday's Democratic primary here, this is almost a foregone conclusion. Minnesota's 5th District, covering the thoroughly liberal metropolis of Minneapolis, is one of the party's safest seats in the House of Representatives. Its loss would be the equivalent of Labour being defeated in the mining valleys of Wales.


Link (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article1578717.ece)

[Wolfcounsel]

Muslim cult members do not belong in government jobs. People seriously need to look at their stupidity in voting for an Islamic freak who will look to his cult rules from Hell to run the government.:flame:

[Charity]

I read about that yesterday and nearly threw up.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

:moo: Guys, guys, guys! These are demonicrats we're talking about. They'd vote for the Devil, if he had a D after his name. In spite of his obvious drawback, Mr. Ellison bears the one characteristic that is sure to enamor him to any liberal; he's not a Republican.

[Charity]

Good point LP.

[HooverWasRight]

Well he won't be alone. It's only a matter of time until one comes out of dearbornistan.

[Kathy30]

It's only a matter of time before some one proposes sharia law.

[markus3622]

Does anyone think that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to be congressmen or women?

[Republican_Legion]

If they believe the constitution violates sharia law and that they must destroy the constitution then yes I certainly feel they should not be allowed just as any other treason thinking nutcase.

[Maggie_T]

Haven't you read the posts, markus? It's obvious that posters (including yours truly) are NOT happy with the idea of having a Muslim as congressman. As for the term 'congressWOMAN,' it is completely incompatible with the Muslim cult, just in case you haven't realized that yet.

[Wyatt_Junker]

Does anyone think that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to be congressmen or women?

Let's see. Here's a very simple test.

Hand them a photocopy of the Constitution in one hand. In the other hand, a Koran.

Now, tell them in order for them to have a job as congresscritter they have to use that Constitution as a working bookmark whenever they use the Koran.

If they can't, then no dice.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Does anyone think that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to be congressmen or women?" --markus3622

Muslims should not be allowed to be in America. They need to deport themselves, to Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Hell. I don't care where else.
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[markus3622]

There are a few muslim female politicians in Europe, so perhaps they aren't real muslims. I admit there aren't many.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pola_Uddin%2C_Baroness_Uddin

[markus3622]

Let's see. Here's a very simple test.

Hand them a photocopy of the Constitution in one hand. In the other hand, a Koran.

Now, tell them in order for them to have a job as congresscritter they have to use that Constitution as a working bookmark whenever they use the Koran.

If they can't, then no dice.

Would you apply the same criterion to Christians?

[Ant]

Now, tell them in order for them to have a job as congresscritter they have to use that Constitution as a working bookmark whenever they use the Koran.

If they can't, then no dice.

Why would they have a problem with that? Is it haraam to use bookmarks in the Koran?

[markus3622]

"Does anyone think that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to be congressmen or women?" --markus3622

Muslims should not be allowed to be in America. They need to deport themselves, To Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Hell. I don't care where else.
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That's a very anti-american sentiment.

[Wyatt_Junker]

Would you apply the same criterion to Christians?

Its workable. Not so sure about Islam.

[Ant]

"Does anyone think that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to be congressmen or women?" --markus3622

Muslims should not be allowed to be in America. They need to deport themselves, To Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Hell. I don't care where else.
<!-- / message -->

What about this?:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

[Wyatt_Junker]

Why would they have a problem with that? Is it haraam to use bookmarks in the Koran?

How about a Hooter's calendar girl bookmark? The Constitution is similarly a moral threat to Islam.

[Wolfcounsel]

"That's a very anti-american sentiment." --markus3622

Muslims are not American. Never were. Never will be. They belong to the devil's messenger, Mohammed the camel humper and pedophile, and their master, Allah, the head camel humper and boy lover from the moon. I say this with the most somber-looking face I can muster.

Screw Islam!<!-- / message -->

[Wolfcounsel]

"Muslims should not be allowed to be in America. They need to deport themselves, To Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Hell. I don't care where else." --Wolf Counsel
<!-- / message -->
"What about this?: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" --Ant

A Muslim goes by the Koran, or else he is a clown impersonating a cult member.











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[Incident_command]

"That's a very anti-american sentiment." --markus3622

Muslims are not American. Never were. Never will be. They belong to the devil's messenger, Mohammed the camel humper and pedophile, and their master, Allah, the head camel humper and boy lover from the moon. I say this with the most somber-looking face I can muster.

Screw Islam!<!-- / message -->


Works for me

[DoctorDoom]

Would you apply the same criterion to Christians?Only if you can show me the Christian who said the equivalent of this.

"Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam ... Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."
-- Omar M. Ahmad, Co-founder and Chairman of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), to a crowd of California Muslims, San Ramon Valley Herald, July 4, 1998

[True Grace]

Only if you can show me the Christian who said the equivalent of this.

"Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam ... Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."
-- Omar M. Ahmad, Co-founder and Chairman of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), to a crowd of California Muslims, San Ramon Valley Herald, July 4, 1998

And yet.....it's the Christians the liberals despise. They can't get beyond their blinding prejudice to see the true and present danger before them. And that is frightening!

[Maggie_T]

That's a very anti-american sentiment.


No, it isn't. You are confusing tolerance with self-destructive imbecility. The two are not the same.

You tolerate people, religions, etc. up to and until they become a danger to the survival of your country. Once that happens, then tolerance is replaced with caution, or something more drastic, if need be.

I can understand how you could be confused by this, our markus. England is not the wonderful, proud, powerful country I grew up in anymore. Now, it is slowly - but steadily - being overtaken by Islam. Just like pretty much the rest of Europe. And instead of fighting back, you guys just sit on your hands and pretend you are being oh-so-tolerant.

(Shrugs) If that's what makes you happy, it's your funeral, mate. But I prefer to keep my country as it has always been: big, powerful, free, and most of all AMERICAN. And may God help us achieve that.

[markus3622]

Only if you can show me the Christian who said the equivalent of this.

"Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam ... Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."
-- Omar M. Ahmad, Co-founder and Chairman of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), to a crowd of California Muslims, San Ramon Valley Herald, July 4, 1998

Seriously, you're asking me to find a quote by a Christian, saying that Christianity is superior to other faiths, that it's the true religion, that the bible is the highest source of authority, and that Christians have a duty to deliver the message of Christianity? I would expect most on the board agree with those statements, or at least a few of those. It certainly sounds a lot scarier when a Muslim says it about the Koran, but the principles are the same if Falwell says it about the Bible.

Anyway, that wasn't the point of this thread. As for Muslims not being American, well, it's anti-american, plain and simple. America, ultimately, isn't about a geographical area, or a skin colour. It's silly even debating it. It's a basic principle of the American Constitution that everyone is born equal, and has the right to practice their own religion, free of persecution. And you folks wonder why Islamists are considered right wing!

[Wolfcounsel]

"As for Muslims not being American, well, it's anti-american, plain and simple. America, ultimately, isn't about a geographical area, or a skin colour. It's silly even debating it. It's a basic principle of the American Constitution that everyone is born equal, and has the right to practice their own religion, free of persecution. And you folks wonder why Islamists are considered right wing!" --markus3622

America is not about people who think it's okay to treat women as second class people, for one. Why do you think it's okie-dokie for the inheritance of one woman to be equal to one-half that of a man's? Or other things I can list, if you're as equality-minded as you say Americans are. Islam is not a religion, and I do not consider Islamists right wing or left wing. I consider each and every one of the cult members a disciple of the Moon creature and his pedophile messenger.<!-- / message -->

[Peachdiane]

First day of the session the dude's gonna announce how offended he is by opening prayer. Watch tradition and freedoms go right out the door...

I agree with Wolfie. After the '93 bombings, the 911 attack, and all the other Islamic atrocities, Muslims shouldn't be allowed to set foot in America, much less gov't office.

[markus3622]

First day of the session the dude's gonna announce how offended he is by opening prayer. Watch tradition and freedoms go right out the door...

I agree with Wolfie. After the '93 bombings, the 911 attack, and all the other Islamic atrocities, Muslims shouldn't be allowed to set foot in America, much less gov't office.

It makes me very happy that you'll almost certainly never get your way.

[Ant]

I agree with Wolfie. After the '93 bombings, the 911 attack, and all the other Islamic atrocities, Muslims shouldn't be allowed to set foot in America, much less gov't office.

So you're against the first amendment then?

[Peachdiane]

So you're against the first amendment then?

I'm against foreign invasions by those who subscribe to the cult of death.

[Teenager]

So you're against the first amendment then?

Think of it this way.

Would you let a serial killer be a congressman? Absolutely not!
Would you let a member of the mafia become a congressman, even though the mafia member may never have comitted a crime? Absolutely not! The reason is because the mafia member supports anarchy and supports anyway in which that goal is achieved.

In the same way, I would never support a muslim to hold a government office.

[Ant]

In the same way, I would never support a muslim to hold a government office.

I was actually refering to the statement that Muslims should not be allowed to set foot in this country.

[Lazarus]

No, it isn't. You are confusing tolerance with self-destructive imbecility. The two are not the same...Sic em, baby...

First day of the session the dude's gonna announce how offended he is by opening prayer. Watch tradition and freedoms go right out the door...

I agree with Wolfie. After the '93 bombings, the 911 attack, and all the other Islamic atrocities, Muslims shouldn't be allowed to set foot in America, much less gov't office.I love it... I dont have to actually say much of anything - I just have to sit back a endorse all these other brilliant posts... Preach on, Sweet Peach...

It makes me very happy that you'll almost certainly never get your way.Why am I not suprised that you are thrilled to invite those who wish to tear down America and enslave us to their cult of death to not only live here but to take seats of power in our government... Why, in your Dream America, we will be just like Lebanon - So saturated with Hezbollah Congressmen and Senators that we are impotent to stop their agenda to turn our nation into a haven for terrorists...

Peach and Maggie will have to wear veils everywhere they go... Christianity, Judeism, and all other non-muslim beliefs will be outlawed... Our children will be endoctrinated in their cult of death... No more evil Pork Bar BQ... But you'll be able to proudly stand up and say, "Ahhhh be we were sooooo open-minded... No one can accuse us of being narrow-minded..." And afterall, that's what its all about in your liberal paradise isnt it...

What better way to ensure the ultimate destruction of Israel than to infest the US Congress with muslims?... Quite effective actually... And only American liberals would be just that bull-headed stupid in their arrogance to elect such a creature...

[Ant]

Why am I not suprised that you are thrilled to invite those who wish to tear down America and enslave us to their cult of death to not only live here but to take seats of power in our government... Why, in your Dream America, we will be just like Lebanon - So saturated with Hezbollah Congressmen and Senators that we are impotent to stop their agenda to turn our nation into a haven for terrorists...

He's saying that he's glad she'll never get her wish to kick people out based on their religious beliefs fulfilled. Where are you getting all this other stuff?

[Peachdiane]

He's saying that he's glad she'll never get her wish to kick people out based on their religious beliefs fulfilled. Where are you getting all this other stuff?

It's positively pitiable (yet expected) that he needs you to speak for him. Where did I call Islam "religious beliefs"? And where did I mention kicking out people? :question:

[Ant]

It's positively pitiable (yet expected) that he needs you to speak for him. Where did I call Islam "religious beliefs"? And where did I mention kicking out people? :question:

Here:

Muslims shouldn't be allowed to set foot in America

...or are you saying that existing Muslims would be allowed to stay, but that you'd implement some sort of religious test for entry? What are you saying?

[Teenager]

I was actually refering to the statement that Muslims should not be allowed to set foot in this country.

Oh, I see. Well then, what's your position on them holding government offices?

[Ant]

Oh, I see. Well then, what's your position on them holding government offices?


As far as I can see, there's no religious test for office holders in the constitution. Would I personally vote for a devout Muslim? Probably not, but if they're elected by a majority, what grounds are you going to use to prevent them from holding office?

[uncommon1]

"Does anyone think that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to be congressmen or women?" --markus3622

Muslims should not be allowed to be in America. They need to deport themselves, to Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Hell. I don't care where else.
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Eternity in hell would also suffice.

[Lazarus]

He's saying that he's glad she'll never get her wish to kick people out based on their religious beliefs fulfilled. Where are you getting all this other stuff?Open your tiny little Ant eyes, Ant...

Need we list all the wars and murders and all the corners of the world that are burning because of Islam's agenda to enslave the world... We're not talkin about Catholics or Hindus or Bhuddists or Jews or Sieks or all the various shades of Protestant Christians... We're talkin about a cult who's idea of evangelism is to kidnap people and torture them and threaten to saw their heads off if they dont change their name to Mo and swear allegiance and fidelity to their god of death...

How many images of people having their heads cut off or roadside bombs blowing people to pieces or maddogs gunning down wedding parties or planes crashing into skyscrapers or women being gang raped or nightclubs being bombed before you highly principled brainiacs get the fact that we are talking about rabid dogs?

This isnt a religion that just believes in a different path to heaven then we do - this is a cult that intends to enslave the world, and is fully willing to kill, that's KILL, anyone who doesnt abandon their own beliefs and bow to their god of death...

[Wolfcounsel]

"Would I personally vote for a devout Muslim? Probably not, but if they're elected by a majority, what grounds are you going to use to prevent them from holding office?" --Ant

You know very well that America has no grounds for denying a creature from Hell the right to hold public office. So, tell the rest of us, what you would do to prevent it, please. Obviously the law must be changed to throw the pile of garbage called Islam into a "persona non grata" status, and rightfully so. I am referring to all you Islamists out there, and all you cheerleaders for the cult from Hell can observe. What is your obsession with kissing the ass of a moon god and a pedophile and giving the thumbs up to the murder of innocents because they dare to talk against your crap, insult your beloved pedophile, and call your pornographic book fancy toilet paper?<!-- / message -->

[Lazarus]

I really like your Avatar, Ant... Its so appropriate to the subject at hand...

That's you with your sophisticated glasses and your cigarette, calmly lecturing us about religious freedom in America...

And , Oh BTW - That's the Islam coming to dinner behind you... :rolleyes:

[Ant]

Open your tiny little Ant eyes, Ant...

So what exactly do you propose we do? Keep in mind that you have to either stay within the framework of the constitution as it is currently, or get it amended to disallow Muslims from holding office. What is your practical solution?

[Ant]

I really like your Avatar, Ant... Its so appropriate to the subject at hand...

That's you with your sophisticated glasses and your cigarette, calmly lecturing us about religious freedom in America...

And , Oh BTW - That's the Islam coming to dinner behind you... :rolleyes:

Lecturing? Is that what I'm doing? I'm pretty sure the only thing I've done is ask you how you plan to reconcile the first amendment's freedom of religion clause with your desire to either prevent Muslims from holding public office, or kick them out of the country entirely.

[Ant]

You guys are acting like I'd be happy living under Islamic rule; I wouldn't be.

What do you propose to do to prevent such a thing?

[Lazarus]

So what exactly do you propose we do? Keep in mind that you have to either stay within the framework of the constitution as it is currently, or get it amended to disallow Muslims from holding office...This is like a game show to you, isnt it? Just an excercise in philosophy - Like a bunch of college punks sitting around smoking pot and discussing the nature and limits of the universe...

Could you explain the rules to me again, I wouldnt want to step out of bounds...:rolleyes:

You want a practical answer... Here's your answer... WW2 style internment camps for Muslims in the US until this Islamic campaign to enslave the world is ended... Then those who officially and publically swear allegiance to the American flag and the Constitution can rejoin society in general...

[Maggie_T]

Peach and Maggie will have to wear veils everywhere they go ...



HAH!!!!

[Lazarus]

HAH!!!!

I know, baby... It is kinda funny, isnt it?:biggrin: I was just trying to illustrate a point... You can start wearing your veil right after I change my name to Mo and abandon my Lord for their moon god...

[Ant]

This is like a game show to you, isnt it? Just an excercise in philosophy - Like a bunch of college punks sitting around smoking pot and discussing the nature and limits of the universe...

Just an exercise in philosophy? Our founding fathers went through all the trouble of writing down the rules by which to govern the country, and you dismiss them as an exercise in philosophy?

Could you explain the rules to me again, I wouldnt want to step out of bounds...:rolleyes:
The rules can be found here --> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

[Lazarus]

You must still be laboring under the misconception that Islam is a Peaceful Religion... That lie must be deeply imbedded in your programming... I dont think I see a single passage in the Constitution that guarantees the free excercise or rights of cult bent on eliminating that very constitution and replacing it with Sharia law... We arent talking about religious freedom - We have gone outside that arena...!!!

Do...You...Understand...Now?!!!!!

[Ant]

You must still be laboring under the misconception that Islam is a Peaceful Religion... That lie must be deeply imbedded in your programming... I dont think I see a single passage in the Constitution that guarantees the free excercise or rights of cult bent on eliminating that very constitution and replacing it with Sharia law... We arent talking about religious freedom - We have gone outside that arena...!!!

Do...You...Understand...Now?!!!!!

Look, I would venture to guess that most of the muslims in the US are probably on the secular side of Islam. They have no wish to implement Sharia law in the US. Can a person who does not believe in Sharia be a true muslim? I don't know, maybe not, but that's what we have here. Are you gonna kick them out for believing different things than you?

[Wolfcounsel]

"Can a person who does not believe in Sharia be a true muslim? I don't know, maybe not, but that's what we have here. Are you gonna kick them out for believing different things than you?" --Ant, to Lazarus

Have the candidate announce on TV to the American public that Islam is a cult from Hell, Mohammed is a camel-humping pedophile, the Koran is fancy toilet paper, and that Allah likes sex with little boys, and then maybe that will work. Remember. Do not look upon Islam as a religion protected by law. Murder is not protected by law, except when "doctors" perform abortions, but that's a different topic.<!-- / message -->

[Peachdiane]

...or are you saying that existing Muslims would be allowed to stay, but that you'd implement some sort of religious test for entry? What are you saying?

Exactly what I said: Muslims shouldn't be allowed to set foot in America. Why does the idea of America closing her borders to protect herself send you into a tizzy?

[Ant]

"Can a person who does not believe in Sharia be a true muslim? I don't know, maybe not, but that's what we have here. Are you gonna kick them out for believing different things than you?" --Ant, to Lazarus

<!-- / message --> Have the candidate announce on TV to the American public that Islam is a cult from Hell, Mohammed is a camel-humping pedophile, the Koran is fancy toilet paper, and that Allah likes sex with little boys, and then maybe that will work. Remember. Do not look upon Islam as a religion protected by law. Murder is not protected by law, except when "doctors" perform abortions, but that's a different topic.

Islam is a religion though, whether you like it or not. It's one of the Abrahamic religions along with Judaism and Christianity.

[Ant]

Why does the idea of America closing her borders to protect herself send you into a tizzy?

It doesn't. I'm just wondering how you think that something like that could be legally implemented.

[Lazarus]

Look, I would venture to guess that most of the muslims in the US are probably on the secular side of Islam. They have no wish to implement Sharia law in the US...Oh yeah, Sorry... I forgot about that vast horde of moderate muslims who are actively working so hard to corral and neutralize the radical mad dogs who are such an embarrassment to them... Why I have to fight thru the teaming throgs of moderate muslims just to get to work everyday... You cant turn on the TV without seeing them in droves, the peaceful little scamps...

[Ant]

Oh yeah, Sorry... I forgot about that vast horde of moderate muslims who are actively working so hard to corral and neutralize the radical mad dogs who are such an embarrassment to them...

I never claimed they were actively working hard at anything. I merely said they were on the secular side of Islam.

Do you know any Muslims? All of the Muslims I've known were just regular Joes who happened to be raised Muslim. One guy even bought a Christmas tree and Christmas presents for his family because it was the American thing to do.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Islam is a religion though, whether you like it or not. It's one of the Abrahamic religions along with Judaism and Christianity." --Ant

Yes, of course. Suddenly God decided that infidels are okay to be murdered, converts taxed, and women can be made into second class people. Of course I understand. Mohammed is after all (his)* prophet and all that. And various scholars, world leaders, and famous personalities have oohed and ahhed over the religion of religions. And my dog took another crap in my backyard. Time to go clean up all that dog poop, eh?:evilgrin:


*I did not capitalize 'his', because that is reserved for God, and not Allah.

[Peachdiane]

Islam is a religion though, whether you like it or not. It's one of the Abrahamic religions along with Judaism and Christianity.

No it isn't. It's not a religion in the same way "religion" is understood in the West. They just attach 'religion' to it to invoke respect. Any death cult that has large numbers of adherents can be called a "religion." Islam is a political-cultural ideology with the goal to subjugate the world to itself.

[Lazarus]

Islam is a religion though, whether you like it or not. It's one of the Abrahamic religions along with Judaism and Christianity.Dont try it on, Ant... You are clearly entering territory for which you are ill prepared to tread... Abraham is not remotely connected with Islam... Dont even pursue the subject here, unless you are desperately seeking a verbal drubbing... By that one statement you have exposed far more of your ignorance on that subject than should have ever seen the light of day...

[Ant]

Dont try it on, Ant... You are clearly entering territory for which you are ill prepared to tread... Abraham is not remotely connected with Islam... Dont even pursue the subject here, unless you are desperately seeking a verbal drubbing... By that one statement you have exposed far more of your ignorance on that subject than should have ever seen the light of day...

Abrahamic religions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religion
http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/Abrahamic_religions

Islam is an Abrahamic religion. Look it up in a dictionary. Look it up in an encyclopedia.

I'll admit freely that I am ignorant of alot of things when it comes to religions, but this is one thing I do know.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Islam is an Abrahamic religion. Look it up in a dictionary. Look it up in an encyclopedia." --Ant

Can I channel Einstein?<!-- / message -->

[True Grace]

Abrahamic religions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religion
http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/Abrahamic_religions

Islam is an Abrahamic religion. Look it up in a dictionary. Look it up in an encyclopedia.

I'll admit freely that I am ignorant of alot of things when it comes to religions, but this is one thing I do know.

*YAWN*

Muslims do not worship the God of Abraham. They deny the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, deny the Holy Trinity, and deny the Truth of God's Word and therefore they worship a false god and adhere to a false religion.

Muslims are your standard, run-of-the-mill children of Satan, nothing more.

[Ant]

*YAWN*

Muslims do not worship the God of Abraham. They deny the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, deny the Holy Trinity, and deny the Truth of God's Word and therefore they worship a false god and adhere to a false religion.

Muslims are your standard, run-of-the-mill children of Satan, nothing more.

They claim to worship the same god as Christians, and most religious scholars would say that they do also. Jesus Christ is even one of their prophets if I recall correctly.

[Ant]

*YAWN*

Muslims do not worship the God of Abraham. They deny the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, deny the Holy Trinity, and deny the Truth of God's Word and therefore they worship a false god and adhere to a false religion.

Muslims are your standard, run-of-the-mill children of Satan, nothing more.

Do you feel the same way about Jews? I mean, they also deny the divinity of Jesus Christ.

[Peachdiane]

But since Christians' understanding of the Gift of Prophet was given by God to believers only, including the Old Testament prophets, their definition of prophet is not ours.

[True Grace]

They claim to worship the same god as Christians, and most religious scholars would say that they do also. Jesus Christ is even one of their prophets if I recall correctly.

Well if "religious scholars" say so, it must be true! :rolleyes:

And regarding the nonsense about Jesus Christ being one of their prophets....if they deny His Lorship, they deny Him. It's really not that complicated.

[Ant]

Well if "religious scholars" say so, it must be true! :rolleyes:

When searching for answers to questions that require some study, I am more inclined to believe someone who devotes their lives to the study of that subject than I am to believe some poster on an Internet message board.

[Maggie_T]

They claim to worship the same god as Christians,

And you fell for it line, hook, and sinker. :claps: Next, you're going to tell us you believe Ahmadinejan when he says he's not an anti-Semite.

Well done, Bug. You must be so proud of yourself. :rolleyes:

[True Grace]

Do you feel the same way about Jews? I mean, they also deny the divinity of Jesus Christ.

I believe that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. After Jesus Christ came to this earth, died on the Cross, and ascended into heaven, the Truth of God was fully revealed.

We are to worship God in Spirit and Truth. Jews, by denying the deity of Jesus Christ, are not worshiping God in Truth and are thus not worshiping the One True God.

The Bible is very clear that there is only one name by which we can be saved, and it is Jesus Christ.

I do believe that God has special plans for Jews in the future when Jesus Christ returns. I don't think they will all be blinded to His Truth forever.

[Peachdiane]

There's plenty of scholars who cover the issue. Dr. Land is one of them.

Alas, the President answered the second part of the question, and I believe he answered it incorrectly. When reporters called to ask for my response to the President's statement, I told them that like many other Americans, I applaud the President as a man of deep religious faith who attempts to bring those convictions to bear on public policy. I immediately added, however, that he is Commander-in-Chief, not theologian-in-chief. And when President Bush concludes that Muslims and Christians worship the same God, he is simply mistaken.

-- Dr. Richard Land ( Princeton (A.B., magna cum laude) and Oxford (D.Phil.) educated)

Next, you're going to tell us you believe Ahmadinejan when he says he's not an anti-Semite.

Well he's a big fan of Wackypedia. If Wackypedia says he's not anti-Semite, it must be so! :rolleyes:

[Wolfcounsel]

"Do you feel the same way about Jews? I mean, they also deny the divinity of Jesus Christ." --Ant, to True Grace

Do you know how many Jewish walk around with their thumbs up their asses when any of the religion murder in the name of terrorism and Judaism, unlike the Muslims, whose cult rules DO tell them it's okay to murder infidels?

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"When searching for answers to questions that require some study, I am more inclined to believe someone who devotes their lives to the study of that subject than I am to believe some poster on an Internet message board." --Ant

Like, say the Assaholah Khomeini?:evilgrin:

http://www.homa.org/default.asp?TOCID=2083225445<!-- / message -->

[Ant]

And you fell for it line, hook, and sinker.

Fell for what? One imaginary being is the same as another as far as I'm concerned.

[True Grace]

When searching for answers to questions that require some study, I am more inclined to believe someone who devotes their lives to the study of that subject than I am to believe some poster on an Internet message board.

:rolleyes:

Ya know, most "religious scholars" wouldn't know the Truth if it slapped them upside the head. You are clinging to a sinking ship if you are depending on "religious scholars" for your answers.

[Ant]

Next, you're going to tell us you believe Ahmadinejan when he says he's not an anti-Semite.

Uh, no.

[Ant]

Like, say the Assaholah Khomeini?:evilgrin:

http://www.homa.org/default.asp?TOCID=2083225445<!-- / message -->

Sorry, I should have said "...devoted their lives to the objective and unbiased study..."

[True Grace]

Fell for what? One imaginary being is the same as another as far as I'm concerned.

These words will come back to haunt you when you are standing before the Lord in Judgment one day, unless you come to a saving faith in Christ in the interim, which I hope you do.

[DoctorDoom]

Islam is a religion though, whether you like it or not. It's one of the Abrahamic religions along with Judaism and Christianity.Yes, it is a religion. No, it is not an Abrahamic religion. It is the whole-cloth fantasy of an insane, murderous pedophile, and its god is a pagan moon-god reborn as a demonic monster.

This study examines the crucial question that needs to be addressed which is whether the God presented in the Quran is indeed the same God revealed in the Holy Bible. The Quran alleges that the God of Islam, Allah, is indeed the God of Abraham and hence the God of Scripture, Yahweh Elohim. But is this the case?

Are we to assume that just because the Quran states that Allah is Yahweh of the Bible that both Jews and Christians are obligated to believe this to be true? Or do we examine the nature and attributes of Allah in order to compare them with the biblical portrait of Yahweh to find if this is the case?

This process of examination is essential since our objective is to discover the true nature of God, a process whose outcome entails eternal consequences in regards to man's future destiny in the afterlife. After all, if Allah is the God of Abraham then Jews and Christians are wrong for not embracing Islam. But if Allah is not Yahweh, then Muslims are not worshiping the same God only with a different name.

We will examine certain qualities of Allah as stated in the Quran and briefly compare them to Yahweh and see where the evidence leads us. The reason why we are comparing Allah to Yahweh as opposed to contrasting Yahweh to the quranic portrait of Allah, using the Quran as the standard, is due to the fact that it is Islam that claims to worship the same God of the Holy Bible. Thus, the burden of proof rests upon the Muslims to defend this contention since they believe Allah is the same as Yahweh.IS ALLAH THE GOD OF THE BIBLE? (http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/god.htm)

Allah is the name of the only God in Islam. Allah is a pre-Islamic name coming from the compound Arabic word Al-ilah which means the God, which is derived from al (the) ilah (deity). It was formerly the name of the chief god among the numerous idols (360) in the Kaaba in Mecca before Mohammed made them into monotheists. Today a Muslim is one who submits to the God Allah.

Islam means submission to (Allah), but originally it meant that strength which characterized a desert warrior who, even when faced with impossible odds, would fight to the death for his tribe. (Dr. M. Baravmann, The Spiritual Background of Early Islam, E. J. Brill, Leiden, 1972)

Many believe the word “Allah” was derived from the mid- eastern word “el” which in Ugaritic, Caananite and Hebrew can mean a true or false God. This is not the case, “The source of this (Allah) goes back to pre-Muslim times. Allah is not a common name meaning “God” (or a “god”), and the Muslim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity.” (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (ed. Hastings), I:326.)

According to the Encyclopedia of Religion, Allah corresponded to the Babylonian god Baal, and Arabs knew of him long before Mohammed worshipped him as the supreme God. Before Islam the Arabs recognized many gods and goddesses, each tribe had their own deity. There were also nature deities. Allah was the god of the local Quarish tribe, which was Mohammed's tribe before he invented Islam to lead his people out of their polytheism. Allah was then known as the Moon God, who had 3 daughters who were viewed as intercessors for the people into Allah. Their names were Al-at, Al-uzza, and Al-Manat, which were three goddesses; the first two daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah. Hubal was the chief God of the Kaaba among the other 360 deities. Hubal was the chief God of the Kaaba among the other 360 deities. Hubal was a statue likeness of a man whose body was made of red precious stones whose arms were made of gold. (Reference Islam George Braswell Jr.)Is Allah the name of God? (http://www.letusreason.org/Islam6.htm)

The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.Allah - the Moon God (http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm)

They claim to worship the same god as Christians ...And that means what? New Agers claim to channel Commander Ashtar in his spaceship. Claims are meaningless if they deny the facts.

... and most religious scholars would say that they do also.Correction: most ATHEISTIC LIBERAL religious scholars.

Jesus Christ is even one of their prophets if I recall correctly.Islam's version of Jesus is antithetical to Christianity's. This is a piece I composed a couple of years ago.

What does the Koran/Qur'an have to say about the Lord Jesus Christ? Look these over and see if Islam and Christianity are compatible.

These verses are taken from the translation by Dr. Rashad Khalifa. You can download chapters in web format here (http://www.submission.org/Q-T.html) or DL the entire book here. (http://www.submission.org/quran/WinQT.html)
<hr>
[2:87] We gave Moses the scripture, and subsequent to him we sent other messengers, and we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it not a fact that every time a messenger went to you with anything you disliked, your ego caused you to be arrogant? Some of them you rejected, and some of them you killed.

[2:136] Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."

[2:254] O you who believe, you shall give to charity from the provisions we have given to you, before a day comes where there is no trade, no nepotism, and no intercession. The disbelievers are the unjust.
*2:254 One of Satan's clever tricks is attributing the power of intercession to powerless human idols such as Jesus and Muhammad (Appendix 8).

[3:52] When Jesus sensed their disbelief, he said, "Who are my supporters towards GOD?" The disciples said, "We are GOD's supporters; we believe in GOD, and bear witness that we are submitters."
[3:54] They plotted and schemed, but so did GOD, and GOD is the best schemer.
[3:55] Thus, GOD said, "O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes.
*3:54-55 We learn that Jesus' soul, the real person, was raised, i.e., Jesus' life on earth was terminated, prior to the arrest, torture, and crucifixion of his empty, soulless, physiologically living body (See the details in Appendix 22).

[3:59] The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
*3:59 The "equality" of the creation of Jesus and Adam is confirmed mathematically; Jesus and Adam are mentioned in the Quran the same number of times, 25 times each.

[3:84] Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."

[4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.*
*4:157-158 Jesus, the real person, the soul, was raised in the same manner as in the death of any righteous person. Subsequently, his enemies arrested, tortured, and crucified his living, but empty, body.

[4:163] We have inspired you, as we inspired Noah and the prophets after him. And we inspired Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, the Patriarchs, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon. And we gave David the Psalms.


[4:171] O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.
[4:172] The Messiah would never disdain from being a servant of GOD, nor would the closest angels. Those who disdain from worshiping Him, and are too arrogant to submit, He will summon them all before Him.
[4:173] As for those who believe and lead a righteous life, He will fully recompense them, and shower them with His grace. As for those who disdain and turn arrogant, He will commit them to painful retribution. They will find no lord beside GOD, nor a savior.

[5:46] Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.


[5:72] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah himself said, "O Children of Israel, you shall worship GOD; my Lord* and your Lord." Anyone who sets up any idol beside GOD, GOD has forbidden Paradise for him, and his destiny is Hell. The wicked have no helpers.
[5:73] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is a third of a trinity. There is no god except the one god. Unless they refrain from saying this, those who disbelieve among them will incur a painful retribution.
[5:74] Would they not repent to GOD, and ask His forgiveness? GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
[5:75] The Messiah, son of Mary, is no more than a messenger like the messengers before him, and his mother was a saint. Both of them used to eat the food. Note how we explain the revelations for them, and note how they still deviate!


[5:110] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you with the Holy Spirit, to enable you to speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult. I taught you the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. Recall that you created from clay the shape of a bird by My leave, then blew into it, and it became a live bird by My leave. You healed the blind and the leprous by My leave, and revived the dead by My leave. Recall that I protected you from the Children of Israel who wanted to hurt you, despite the profound miracles you had shown them. The disbelievers among them said, 'This is obviously magic.'


[5:112] Recall that the disciples said, "O Jesus, son of Mary, can your Lord send down to us a feast from the sky?" He said, "You should reverence GOD, if you are believers."
[5:113] They said, "We wish to eat from it, and to reassure our hearts, and to know for sure that you have told us the truth. We will serve as witnesses thereof."
[5:114] Said Jesus, the son of Mary, "Our god, our Lord, send down to us a feast from the sky. Let it bring plenty for each and every one of us, and a sign from You. Provide for us; You are the best Provider."
[5:115] GOD said, "I am sending it down. Anyone among you who disbelieves after this, I will punish him as I never punished anyone else."
[5:116] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary,* did you say to the people, 'Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?' " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.
*5:116 It is noteworthy that the Quran consistently calls Jesus "son of Mary" and the Bible calls him "son of man". God knew that some will blaspheme and call him "son of God"!
[5:117] "I told them only what You commanded me to say, that: 'You shall worship GOD, my Lord and your Lord.' I was a witness among them for as long as I lived with them. When You terminated my life on earth, You became the Watcher over them. You witness all things.
[5:118] "If You punish them, they are Your constituents. If You forgive them, You are the Almighty, Most Wise."


[9:30] The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD," while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.

[9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords,* instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners.


[19:16] Mention in the scripture Mary. She isolated herself from her family, into an eastern location.
[19:17] While a barrier separated her from them, we sent to her our Spirit. He went to her in the form of a human being.
[19:18] She said, "I seek refuge in the Most Gracious, that you may be righteous."
[19:19] He said, "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son."
[19:20] She said, "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me; I have never been unchaste."
[19:21] He said, "Thus said your Lord, 'It is easy for Me. We will render him a sign for the people, and mercy from us. This is a predestined matter.' "
[19:22] When she bore him, she isolated herself to a faraway place.
[19:23] The birth process came to her by the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "(I am so ashamed;) I wish I were dead before this happened, and completely forgotten."
[19:24] (The infant) called her from beneath her, saying, "Do not grieve. Your Lord has provided you with a stream.
[19:25] "If you shake the trunk of this palm tree, it will drop ripe dates for you.*
[19:26] "Eat and drink, and be happy. When you see anyone, say, 'I have made a vow of silence; I am not talking today to anyone.' "
[19:27] She came to her family, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have committed something that is totally unexpected.
[19:28] "O descendant of Aaron, your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother unchaste."
[19:29] She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?"
[19:30] (The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of GOD. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet.
[19:31] "He made me blessed wherever I go, and enjoined me to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat) for as long as I live.
[19:32] "I am to honor my mother; He did not make me a disobedient rebel.
[19:33] And peace be upon me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I get resurrected."
[19:34] That was Jesus, the son of Mary, and this is the truth of this matter, about which they continue to doubt.
[19:35] It does not befit GOD that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is.
[19:36] He also proclaimed, "GOD is my Lord and your Lord; you shall worship Him alone. This is the right path."*
[19:37] The various parties disputed among themselves (regarding the identity of Jesus). Therefore, woe to those who disbelieve from the sight of a terrible day.

[35:14] If you call on them, they cannot hear you. Even if they hear you, they cannot respond to you. On the Day of Resurrection, they will disown you. None can inform you like the Most Cognizant.
*35:14 People idolize Jesus, Mary, Muhammad, Ali, and/or the saints; such idols are unaware and utterly powerless. Even when they were alive on this earth, they were powerless.

[43:57] When the son of Mary was cited as an example, your people disregarded it.
[43:58] They said, "Is it better to worship our gods, or to worship him?" They said this only to argue with you. Indeed, they are people who have joined the opposition.
[43:59] He was no more than a servant whom we blessed, and we sent him as an example for the Children of Israel.
[43:60] If we willed, we could have made you angels who colonize and reproduce on earth.
[43:61] He is to serve as a marker for knowing the end of the world, so you can no longer harbor any doubt about it. You shall follow Me; this is the right path.
[43:62] Let not the devil repel you; he is your most ardent enemy.
[43:63] When Jesus went with the proofs, he said, "I bring to you wisdom, and to clarify some of the matters in which you dispute. You shall reverence GOD and obey me.
[43:64] "GOD is my Lord and your Lord, you shall worship Him alone. This is the right path."

[61:6] Recall that Jesus, son of Mary, said, "O Children of Israel, I am GOD's messenger to you, confirming the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be even more praised (Ahmad)." Then, when he showed them the clear proofs, they said, "This is profound magic."

A Contrast Between Mohammed and Christ

Mohammed was the prophet of war; Christ is the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6-7).

Mohammed's disciples killed for the faith; Christ's disciples were killed for their faith (Acts 12:2; 2 Timothy 4:7).

Mohammed promoted persecution against the infidels; Christ forgave and converted the chief persecutor (1 Timothy 1:13-15).

Mohammed was the taker of life; Christ was the giver of life (John 10:27-28).

Mohammed and his fellow warriors murdered thousands; Christ murdered none but saved many (compare John 12:48).

Mohammed's method was COMPULSION; Christ's aim was voluntary CONVERSION (Acts 3:19).

Mohammed practiced FORCE; Christ preached FAITH (John 6:29,35).

Mohammed was a WARRIOR; Christ is a DELIVERER (Colossians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:10).

Mohammed conquered his enemies with the sword; Christ conquered his enemies with another kind of sword, the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God (Hebrews 4:12; Acts 2:37).

Mohammed said to the masses, Convert or die!; Christ said, Believe and live! (John 6:47; 11:25-26).

Mohammed was swift to shed blood (Romans 3:15-17); Christ shed His own blood for the salvation of many (Ephesians 1:7).

Mohammed preached Death to the infidels!; Christ prayed Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do (Luke 23:34).

Mohammed declared a holy war (Jihad) against infidels; Christ achieved a holy victory on Calvary's cross (Colossians 2:14-15) and His followers' share in that victory (John 16:33).

Mohammed constrained people by conquest; Christ constrained people by love (2 Corinthians 5:14).

Modern terrorists derive their inspiration from Mohammed and carry out their despicable atrocities in the name of his god Allah; Christians derive their inspiration from the One who said, Blessed are the peacemakers (Matthew 5:9).

Some modern day disciples of Mohammed responded to the terrorist attacks by cheering in the streets; modern day disciples of Christ are deeply grieved at past atrocities carried out by those who were Christians in name only (the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.).

Many Muslims are peaceful and peace-loving because they do not strictly follow the teachings of their founder; many Christians are peaceful and peace-loving because they do strictly follow the teachings of their Founder (Romans 12:17-21).

Mohammed called upon his servants to fight; Jesus said, My kingdom is not of this world; if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight . . .but now is My kingdom not from here (John 18:36)

Mohammed ordered death to the Jews (see A.Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad, Oxford University Press [1975], p. 369); Christ ordered that the gospel be preached to the Jew first (Rom. 1:16).

The Koran says, Fight in the cause of Allah (Qu'ran 2.244); the Bible says, we wrestle not against flesh and blood and the weapons of our warfare are not carnal (Ephesians 6:12; 2 Cor. 10:4).

The Koran says, Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them (Qu'ran 9.5); Christ said, Preach the gospel to every creature (Mark 16:15).

The Koran says, I will inspire terror into the hearts of unbelievers (Qu'ran 8.12); God inspires His terror (fear, reverential awe) into the hearts of believers (Isaiah 8:13).

The Koran (Qu'ran) is a terrorist manual, which condones fighting, conflict, terror, slaughter, and genocide against those who do not accept Islam; the Bible is a missionary manual to spread the gospel of peace to all the world (Romans 10:15).

Mohammed's Mission was to conquer the world for Allah; Christ's mission was to conquer sin's penalty and power by substitutionary atonement (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 3:18).

Mohammed considered Christ a good prophet; Christ pronounced Mohammed to be a false prophet (John 10:10; Matt. 24:11).

Mohammed claimed that there was but one God, Allah; Christ claimed that He Himself was God (John 10:30-31; John 8:58-59; John 5:18; John 14:9).


Mohammed's Tomb: OCCUPIED! Christ's tomb: EMPTY!

[Note: For excellent documentation on the bloody history of Islam, see The Bloody Legacy of Islam (http://withchrist.org/csligh.htm) by Chuck Sligh. E-mail: csligh2001@yahoo.com ]

But these [things] are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have LIFE through His Name (John 20:31).A Contrast Between Mohammed and Christ (http://www.hissheep.org/israeli/a_contrast_between_mohammed_and_christ.html)

There is no possibility of harmonizing Islam with Christianity and Judaism. They are utterly dissimilar.

[Timberwolf]

Quote:<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Wyatt_Junker http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/images/pdfus/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showthread.php?p=470317#post470317)
Let's see. Here's a very simple test.

Hand them a photocopy of the Constitution in one hand. In the other hand, a Koran.

Now, tell them in order for them to have a job as congresscritter they have to use that Constitution as a working bookmark whenever they use the Koran.

If they can't, then no dice.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Would you apply the same criterion to Christians?
Absolutely.

What about this?:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
What about it?

[Timberwolf]

Lecturing? Is that what I'm doing? I'm pretty sure the only thing I've done is ask you how you plan to reconcile the first amendment's freedom of religion clause with your desire to either prevent Muslims from holding public office, or kick them out of the country entirely.
Um...hmmm....lemme see...how can I say this tactfully? I guess I can't. I don't want TERRORISTS in Congress...but, we have to let the democrats serve. When this muzzie renounces the atrocities committed by his fellow muzzies, against Christians, Jews, atheists, Hindus, Bhuddists, etal (not just against "innocents"), maybe I'll change my mind. But, HIS holy book tells him to lie in wait and bide his time...and when he and his fellow muzzies exist in such numbers that they can, they are to attempt to overthrow the government.

Not gonna go there...not for a nanosecond.

[HooverWasRight]

Anybody ever hear of the Smoot hearings? :D

[HooverWasRight]

You guys are acting like I'd be happy living under Islamic rule; I wouldn't be.

What do you propose to do to prevent such a thing?


Paintball Jihad. :D

[HooverWasRight]

Seriously, you're asking me to find a quote by a Christian, saying that Christianity is superior to other faiths, that it's the true religion, that the bible is the highest source of authority, and that Christians have a duty to deliver the message of Christianity? I would expect most on the board agree with those statements, or at least a few of those. It certainly sounds a lot scarier when a Muslim says it about the Koran, but the principles are the same if Falwell says it about the Bible.

Anyway, that wasn't the point of this thread. As for Muslims not being American, well, it's anti-american, plain and simple. America, ultimately, isn't about a geographical area, or a skin colour. It's silly even debating it. It's a basic principle of the American Constitution that everyone is born equal, and has the right to practice their own religion, free of persecution. And you folks wonder why Islamists are considered right wing!

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare.php

[Lazarus]

But since Christians' understanding of the Gift of Prophet was given by God to believers only, including the Old Testament prophets, their definition of prophet is not ours.:kiss2:

Sorry, private joke... Please do continue...:biggrin:

[Maggie_T]

Do you know any Muslims? All of the Muslims I've known were just regular Joes who happened to be raised Muslim. One guy even bought a Christmas tree and Christmas presents for his family because it was the American thing to do.

Aww, innit sweet? :rolleyes:

And how come you liberals always know some Muslim fellow who buys Christmas trees and presents for his family because it's the American thing to do, and never come across those who abhor America and would gladly reduce her to rubble? That's what I want to know.

I don't know any Muslims. Not because I avoid them, mind you. I just don't run into any. But it seems liberals can't turn around without bumping into them. And it's always the "moderate" regular Joe kind they bump into. I find that just as suspicious as the fact that liberals who post here make the "deer in the headlights" face when you tell them about radical liberals, who spew hatred and venom left and right. Oh, they never, ever, heard of them. "Are you sure you're not imagining them?" they ask. Oh, please.

Anyway, I think that Muslims/Islamists/whathaveyou should NOT be in congress. If he (I won't even say 'he/she'; a genuine Muslim woman would never be allowed to do anything but cook and drop babies). They are not reliable. If they are genuine Muslims, then they would side with their brethren, not with Americans. They would never condemn, let alone punish, Islamofascism. They would give us a bunch of idiotic, irrelevant excuses for Islamofascist terrorism as they do now, but they would NEVER go after them.

These people cannot be trusted. Period.

[bannerman]

Does anyone think that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to be congressmen or women?

the basic tenets of the koran are at ODDS with our form of government

<div align="center"><img alt="" src="http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2442/barbarjy2.jpg" /></div><br /><br /><b></b>

[Kathy30]

I know muslims personally. I know some are all American and some don't even go to Mosque because of the anti American rhetoric they find there.

I know that some of the neighbors of at least one of the hijackers was shocked. They watched football together, went out for a beer. Flirted with girls. This was the one who lived in San Diego. Sometimes you cannot tell whether they are radical or not. No one is going to come right out and say I'm a terrorist.

Incidentally, I once dated a muslim from Iran. I broke it off when I found out about his three wives back home.

[cerberus]

US Constitution, Article VI:

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

Cut, dry, clear, simple. Anyone who wants to disallow someone to hold office based on their particular relgion is, therefore, against the Constitution.

[DoctorDoom]

Dogbreath, the goal of Islam is to ELIMINATE the Constitution and replace it with Sharia (read this quote (http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showpost.php?p=470346&postcount=24)). Under Islam, the religion is the state, as has been clearly demonstrated many times, and Muslims are loyal only to Islam. Therefore, clueless liberal, a Muslim CANNOT "be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution ..." A Muslim who makes such an oath or affirmation is a liar (although lying to infidels is honorable).

Because a Muslim is bound to Islam, not to the laws and customs of Dar al-Harb states, he therefore cannot legitimately be a Senator or a Rep.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Cut, dry, clear, simple. Anyone who wants to disallow someone to hold office based on their particular relgion is, therefore, against the Constitution." --cerberus

If you cannot tell a murder cult from a religion, that's not my problem. If our top public servants, lawyers, religious leaders, et cetera, cannot recognize the scam cult from Hell for what it is, that's their problem, and Americans must join together to tell the imams, mullas, assaholas, whatever clowns the cult spawns, to shove their Koran toilet paper up their asses! And for the public servants to remove their lips from the butthole of Islam.

[Teenager]

Do you know any Muslims? All of the Muslims I've known were just regular Joes who happened to be raised Muslim. One guy even bought a Christmas tree and Christmas presents for his family because it was the American thing to do.

I went to London this past summer to minister to Muslims. We did book tables and door-to-door witnessing(bear in mind that it is very acceptable to do such things in England, whereas in America people hate door-to-door witnessing).

1 out of 4 Muslims that I handed pamphlets to came up to me to simply bad-mouthed, intimidated, yelled at me(Shiite muslims). The hatred that resided in these individuals was overwhelming. The other 3 out 4 were what we'd call "Sunni Muslims."


US Constitution, Article VI:

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

Cut, dry, clear, simple. Anyone who wants to disallow someone to hold office based on their particular relgion is, therefore, against the Constitution.


False. While I was in London, I learned that Muslims do not consider "Islam" a religion. And they are right. Islam isn't a religion. It's their culture. Pure and simple, it's a bloody cult. And any cult(or culture) that condones Jihad or the killing of other people does not belong in Gov't office.

Comprede?

[cerberus]

Dogbreath, the goal of Islam is to ELIMINATE the Constitution and replace it with Sharia (read this quote (http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showpost.php?p=470346&postcount=24)). Under Islam, the religion is the state, as has been clearly demonstrated many times, and Muslims are loyal only to Islam. Therefore, clueless liberal, a Muslim CANNOT "be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution ..." A Muslim who makes such an oath or affirmation is a liar (although lying to infidels is honorable).

Because a Muslim is bound to Islam, not to the laws and customs of Dar al-Harb states, he therefore cannot legitimately be a Senator or a Rep.
People used to say similar things about Catholics when JFK was running for President because narrow-minded bigots thought he'd be loyal to the Pope first. There are over one billion Muslims on this planet, and as shocking and alien as it may seem to you, they are not some monotlithic force with a single interpretation of Islam. Some muslims are highly devout and fundamentalist and i might have a huge problem if they tried to bring that character into my government institutions. However, many are highly westernized, mostly secular, "casual" muslims, some even drink. These people don't bother me so much. You find quotes from the most monsterous and fanatical of Muslims and paint all Muslims that way, and call those that have a different, more moderate and secular interpretation of Islam not "true Muslims". Conversly when someone pulls out equally vile BS from a "Christian" you convientially claim they are not "true Christians". Congratulations, you are the doddering embodiment of the 'No-true-Scotsman' fallacy.
You see, I choose to judge individuals based on their actions and their words and recognize that in the US, most Muslims are just normal people trying to live in peace, make a living and be decent Americans while doing their religious thing. Just as I don't judge all Christians based on the hate-filled bile you and many of your ilk spew forth, I don't judge all Muslims from the vomit that comes out of a Paki madras; i simply chalk it up to the stupidity of the individual.

In any event the Constitution is clear on the matter of using religious criteria for office and either you respect the document or you don't; clearly you do not.

[cerberus]

False. While I was in London, I learned that Muslims do not consider "Islam" a religion. And they are right. Islam isn't a religion. It's their culture. Religion is part of one's culture but not the whole thing. Turkish culture is different from Arab culture which is different from Indonesian cultures, but they are all Muslims.
And any cult(or culture) that condones Jihad or the killing of other people does not belong in Gov't office.
I agree wholeheartedly but there are over one billion muslims and wildly varying interpretations of Islam. Muslims come in all levels of devoutness, just like every other religion. The problem with Islam is that its Fundamentalists are more dangerous than other religions. Just as I would not support a Fundamentalist "Christian" who advocated religious Crusades, stoning homosexuals, or manditory Bible study in public schools, I would also not support a Muslim who advocated Jihad, stoning women who have extramarital sex, or Koranic readings in schools. I support those who leave their religous convictions at the door and do the mundane job of administration and governance.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Some muslims are highly devout and fundamentalist and i might have a huge problem if they tried to bring that character into my government institutions. However, many are highly westernized, mostly secular, "casual" muslims, some even drink." --cerberus

Yes, of course. I know some Mormons who drink and smoke. they are called "jack Mormons", the same as "jack Muslims", the ones who drink and smoke and treat women as equals. Some people are born into the religion of the parents, and sometimes they strike their parents in the rear with their own transformation into whatever they want to believe. Comprendes?

Anybody who does not see that Islam is a cult that condones murder of innocents, try this experiment. Wear a T-shirt hat says in Arabic, "Allah screw camels", and walk along any Muslim community. You will be lucky to make it out of there untouched.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Just as I would not support a Fundamentalist "Christian" who advocated religious Crusades, stoning homosexuals, or manditory Bible study in public schools, I would also not support a Muslim who advocated Jihad, stoning women who have extramarital sex, or Koranic readings in schools." --cerberus

That is mean of you, not supporting someone's Constitutional right to run for office based on his beliefs.:evilgrin:

[Wyatt_Junker]

First off we need to disassemble this piece of hippie agitprop in your sig, 'kay Cerberus? How does that sound?

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.
- Dwight David Eisenhower, From a speech before the American Society of Newspaper Editors, April 16, 1963


Number one it shows an incredible ignorance of human nature and world history. This is the Age of Quarrel and has been for thousands of years. We cannot overcome it. The only plausible recourse is to continue converting our ploughshares and pruning hooks into swords and spearheads. Sorry if you don't like the answer and prefer the denial of substance abusers, hippies and morons.

Secondly, defending one's nation is NOT 'a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed'.

Nice try dingleberry, but using the New Testament as a pretentious means to usher in Marxism shows that Eisenhower(and you) only use religion in the most exhibitionist sense. It also illustrates that you only comprehend religion from the outside looking in, like a peeping tom. Apparently, to you, only a quasi-spirituality is acceptable, one whereby every article of faith is converted over into soup kitchen collectivism mechanically enforced by the state.

And finally, the quote uses a maudlin image as its pathetic closer; its future 'hanging from a cross of iron', co-opting New Testament Christianity in the same way a drunk reeking from bar tap wraps his arms around you & tells you how much he loves you, 'I really love you, man!'

Its a maudlin deception brought about by a ridiculous stupor of false superiority and its method is employing guilt. The Cross is not for social reengineering. In fact, the Cross is not a tool that Marxists can use as their personal wedge issue in order to advance their cause.

And as a Christian, I praise war inasmuch as I would fight to save the lives of those less fortunate who cannot fight for themselves, particularly, women and children, who, if you do not invest in defense, will perish in a cloud of effeminate cliches like the one in your sig.

And in terms of the 'sweat' equity of war's 'laborers' and 'the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children' etc. etc. ad nauseum etc....

Apparently, you never watched the History Channel's Awesome Developments of War. Just feeding the hungry and clothing the poor alone may make you feel all fuzzy inside like the warm, unicorn-believing cuddly Care Bear you are, however, you will still remain stagnated, your brainwaves frozen, advancing nothing to better society than just another meal into a bum's tummy.

However, war, one of its marvelous effects, is to advance our knowledge of science, expand our economic reach and even feed the hungry. Through the crucible of one nation competing for its life against another nation, we see a kind of macro evolution of rapid incremental knowledge.

From war came the knowledge of canning and food preservation. Napoleon said that your army is only as good as its stomach. And because of war and the need to keep an army well fed, air tight containers were invented, keeping food precious and unspoiled for months even years at a time.

From war came frozen orange juice. In order to avoid scurvy, the military encouraged the Florida citrus growers to come up with a plan to stave off this threat. They invented a concentrater (yes, using science mind you) to fold orange juice into a dense format, then can it and deliver it to our troops.

From war came plastics. Our military had a huge need to remain lightweight and all we had from the industrial revolution was machines made of iron and steel. Durable, but not practical. Plastic was invented in order to make all sorts of products from tires to tents, it was also durable and plus it was cheaper than anything else.

War also created jobs, created brand names, entrepreneurs that later helped to shore up our economy decades later. Jeep is one example. Hummer is another. An entire dealership and auto manufacturer that had crossover roots as a military incubator and later after it was mass produced and then turned over to private enterprise.

I could go on and on and on and continue to show what a dip Eisenhower's sappy, uninformed quote is, but at this point you should already begin to experience what psychologists and sociologists refer to as embarassment for being so easily dispatched and schooled. It must be hard when you hang your entire life's outlook on third grade rhetoric, eh?

[Teenager]

Religion is part of one's culture but not the whole thing. Turkish culture is different from Arab culture which is different from Indonesian cultures, but they are all Muslims.



You don't get it. Islam is their culture. That's their identity. That's what their are born with. It's like being born with black or white skin. That's who they are. Their religion is what defines them. Religion is their culture. Try to grab hold of that concept...



I agree wholeheartedly but there are over one billion muslims and wildly varying interpretations of Islam. Muslims come in all levels of devoutness, just like every other religion.

This much I agree with. However, being a muslim is like being in the mafia, by mere association. Any member of the mafia condones the killing of people in order to advance the "higher ups" goals...

The problem with Islam is that its Fundamentalists are more dangerous than other religions. Just as I would not support a Fundamentalist "Christian" who advocated religious Crusades, stoning homosexuals, or manditory Bible study in public schools, I would also not support a Muslim who advocated Jihad, stoning women who have extramarital sex, or Koranic readings in schools. I support those who leave their religous convictions at the door and do the mundane job of administration and governance.



Here's where your post is bull.
(1) You are not born a Christian
(2) You are born a Muslim and thence forth you are brainwashed into believing you can never change your muslim identity, heritage, or culture.
(3) You are not a Christian unless you've been "saved by the Grace of God through face."


While, I was in London, I learned that it can take up to 25 years for a Muslim to finally understand that they can "convert," and that they can abandon the muslim culture.
Finally, even though some of these muslims are on the road to understanding this concept of "converting," they still hate America and Israel(until they actually accept Jesus as Savior). And these same muslims who are on that road to understanding are the ones who are considered "peaceful."

Do you understand any of this? Does it make sense now?

[pinqy]

You don't get it. Islam is their culture. That's their identity. That's what their are born with. It's like being born with black or white skin. That's who they are. Their religion is what defines them. Religion is their culture.
Just like the Jews?

[Wyatt_Junker]

There are over one billion Muslims on this planet, and as shocking and alien as it may seem to you, they are not some monotlithic force with a single interpretation of Islam.


They don't have to be a monolithic force. 'The enemy of my enemy...' unites them enough as we have already seen despite minor infighting. Lebanon proper now cuddles formally with Hezbollah and even though Hamas scrums with Al-Aqsa they both wage terrorism against Israel.

Muslim power in general is catabolic because its unstable. When its done threatening the anglo world(as its first priority) then it downshifts into its second priority, namely political cannibalism and eating its own. This should be obvious as it already enslaves half of its population(ie, women). Muslim power is highly fissionable. This alone should not mean that it doesn't form a united wall against 'the West'. To think otherwise is the apex of ignorance.


Some muslims are highly devout and fundamentalist and i might have a huge problem if they tried to bring that character into my government institutions. However, many are highly westernized, mostly secular, "casual" muslims, some even drink. These people don't bother me so much.


Irrelevant. Some of the 1938 Germans were your basic strudel eaters. All they wanted to do was down some beer at Oktoberfest and molest a lederhosen-wearing St. Paulis girl. But some were race obsessed fascist-minded pricks bent on changing the entire world and cleansing it of lesser genes. We firebombed the fuk out of all of them.


You find quotes from the most monsterous and fanatical of Muslims and paint all Muslims that way, and call those that have a different, more moderate and secular interpretation of Islam not "true Muslims".


Wrong. We quote imams, very popular mainstream imams. We also quote mainstream professors, politicians and left leaning activists who, it appears, have teamed up with virulent islam. We quote mothers of suicide bombers. We quote small children. We quote the muckrakers and we even quote their bimbos like the chick who just won the beauty contest and gave a delicious apologetic for terrorism, telling the West to stay in its place or else suffer 'more attacks'. The only thing we don't quote is the silence of the moderates. Because you can't quote silence now can you?


You see, I choose to judge individuals based on their actions and their words and recognize that in the US, most Muslims are just normal people trying to live in peace, make a living and be decent Americans while doing their religious thing.


You mean the muslims in Dearborn, Michigan? Or how about the ones who recently teamed up with the anarchists in San Francisco? Or what about the ones in Seattle and Chicago who were praising Hezbollah openly?

You see, its a bit unrealistic to 'judge individuals' in the WOT. Sorry to break your little multicultural fantasy. When you're dealing with a significant and sizable percentage of Islam that chooses terror like the recent poll in the West Bank that said that 75% of them believed terrorism was justified and that the most searched after site in Lebanon is Al Manar (Hezbollah agitprop) it kind of makes you ridiculously unrealistic to not attack the group. In fact, you would be morally delinquent not to.

[Teenager]

War also created jobs, created brand names, entrepreneurs that later helped to shore up our economy decades later. Jeep is one example. Hummer is another. An entire dealership and auto manufacturer that had crossover roots as a military incubator and later after it was mass produced and then turned over to private enterprise.


Oh, you forgot the entire Fast-Food industry. If it weren't for the World Wars, the Fast Food industry would never have come about!:thumb:


Just like the Jews?


???

[Wyatt_Junker]

Religion is part of one's culture but not the whole thing. Turkish culture is different from Arab culture which is different from Indonesian cultures, but they are all Muslims.


And they all uniformly hate us.


I agree wholeheartedly but there are over one billion muslims and wildly varying interpretations of Islam.


And every interpertation foments 'hatred of the West' to advance their power like the whores they are, which translates into support for soft target terror whether this is outwardly spoken or not. Vilification of 'the West' is codespeak for supporting the terror network.

[Wolfcounsel]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">"You don't get it. Islam is their culture. That's their identity. That's what their are born with. It's like being born with black or white skin. That's who they are. Their religion is what defines them. Religion is their culture." --Teenager

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


"Just like the Jews?" --pinqy

How many Jews do you read or hear about terrorizing and killing innocents and blowing themselves up and threatening to behead you if you insult their religion?<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[pinqy]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">"You don't get it. Islam is their culture. That's their identity. That's what their are born with. It's like being born with black or white skin. That's who they are. Their religion is what defines them. Religion is their culture." --Teenager


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


"Just like the Jews?" --pinqy

How many Jews do you read or hear about terrorizing and killing innocents and blowing themselves up and threatening to behead you if you insult their religion?<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
What on Earth does that have to do with whether or not Religion and Culture are also interwined for Jews? Oh, Nothing, but I doubt you cared whether or not you were saying anything actually relevant.

[Teenager]

What on Earth does that have to do with whether or not Religion and Culture are also interwined for Jews? Oh, Nothing, but I doubt you cared whether or not you were saying anything actually relevant.


I'm sorry Pingy, but I'm not understanding what you're trying to get at...

[Wolfcounsel]

What on Earth does that have to do with whether or not Religion and Culture are also interwined for Jews? Oh, Nothing, but I doubt you cared whether or not you were saying anything actually relevant." --pinqy

Don't try to detour the subject with your other hand, pinqy. My comment smacks you on your ass and you pretend to feign more ignorance. In a war for freedom, I will be on the side of the good guys, and I WILL shoot through apologetics and cheerleaders to get the cowards they protect.:evilgrin: <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[pinqy]

No, your comment had absolutely nothing, for or against my point. My point was only that Religion and culture are intertwined for Jews just as in Islam...Religion=culture for Jews as well. To a lesser degree the same is true for most Mormons and Catholics...the religion is part of their culture, regardless of level of observance or devotion.

[Teenager]

No, your comment had absolutely nothing, for or against my point. My point was only that Religion and culture are intertwined for Jews just as in Islam...Religion=culture for Jews as well. To a lesser degree the same is true for most Mormons and Catholics...the religion is part of their culture, regardless of level of observance or devotion.

Are you that STUPID!??!

Many of the Jews are atheists, Orthodox, and some even Christians. They have a diverse range of beliefs and cultures. The Jews are in no way like Muslims.
Furthermore, a Jew is born a Jew because of his genetic makeup. A muslim is not a muslim because of his genetic makeup, but because of his culture he/she was born into.

Stupid stupid stupid!

[Wolfcounsel]

"No, your comment had absolutely nothing, for or against my point. My point was only that Religion and culture are intertwined for Jews just as in Islam...Religion=culture for Jews as well. To a lesser degree the same is true for most Mormons and Catholics...the religion is part of their culture, regardless of level of observance or devotion." --pinqy

Yes, and just in case you are interested, read all the posts in this thread to get some sort of continuity.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[pinqy]

Are you that STUPID!??!

Many of the Jews are atheists, Orthodox, and some even Christians. Like I said...cultural as well as religious. Regardless of personal beliefs and practices, people born in Muslim communities consider themselves "Muslim."
They have a diverse range of beliefs and cultures. Ditto the Muslims. Arab culture is different from Turkic is different from Persian is different from Chinese is different from Malay etc.


Furthermore, a Jew is born a Jew because of his genetic makeup. A muslim is not a muslim because of his genetic makeup, but because of his culture he/she was born into.

Stupid stupid stupid! hehehehe how stupid are you? Do you really think there's a "religion gene?" No, a Jew is born a Jew because his mother is a Jew. How is that different from "culture born into? The mother might have been a convert.

[Teenager]

Pingy, begone! There is no hope for you, you little piece of liberal poop...

[pinqy]

oooh, your logical arguments are overwhelming. I shudder before the weight of your intellect.

[Wolfcounsel]

Hey! A fart counts as two shudders, pinqy! Don't forget.

[gnome]

Edited to add a note: This thread was far longer than I realized. If I've covered ground already covered, feel free to ignore this hasty post. (hell, feel free to ignore it for any reason).

A question: would you deport all Muslims if you had to repeal or change the First Amendment to do it?

And I note this post:

If they believe the constitution violates sharia law and that they must destroy the constitution then yes I certainly feel they should not be allowed just as any other treason thinking nutcase.
Last I heard we had laws against treason action, not treason thinking. Should that be changed?

Now maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, if by "not allowed" you mean people shouldn't vote for the person, well that's perfectly reasonable. If they offer a single word in favor of Sharia Law, they wouldn't get my vote.

[Wolfcounsel]

"A question: would you deport all Muslims if you had to repeal or change the First Amendment to do it?" --gnome

Screw that! I would give each Muslim persona non grata status and tell them go kiss their master's butthole in some Muslim country!

-------------------------------------------------------------
"Last I heard we had laws against treason action, not treason thinking. Should that be changed?

Now maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, if by "not allowed" you mean people shouldn't vote for the person, well that's perfectly reasonable." --gnome

You mean, like a person with a criminal mind who hasn't done the crime yet? Once a person's membership in the cult of death is known, get his stinking ass out of here!

Islam's only reason for existence is to enslave the world with its bullshit.

[DoctorDoom]

Dogbreath barked:

People used to say similar things about Catholics when JFK was running for President because narrow-minded bigots thought he'd be loyal to the Pope first.Fool, is the Pope calling for the murder of anyone who refuses to become a Catholic? Are Catholics rioting and burning cities and blowing themselves up around the world? Is Catholicism the source of the vast majority of terrorist activity on Earth?

Sura 9, verse 5 of the Koran reads, "Then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them. And seize them, beleaguer them, And lie in wait for them, In every stratagem (of war)." The note that accompanies this verse in the respected A Yusuf Ali translation states that "when war becomes inevitable it must be pursued with vigour. The fighting may take the form of slaughter, or capture, or siege, or ambush and other stratagems.

"In the Muslim faith, the Koran is believed to be the very word of God, applying to all people, in all times, in all places. It is the source of the Muslim faith and the law that orders the Islamic way of life. Killing is not totally forbidden: in fact, it was through conquest that Islam spread. In Indonesia today, non-Muslims are offered a choice of conversion to Islam or death. The argument that the above verse was written to refer only to a particular time and people is not valid. The Koran is considered immutable - a fact that has been repeatedly employed to justify verses that are discriminatory toward women, such as the unequal inheritance shares given to women in line with Sura 4, verse 11.

The development of Shariah, Islamic law, created a society where non-Muslims lived as second-class citizens subject to and humiliated by numerous laws. Those who converted from Islam to another religion were killed, a practice that continues in Afghanistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Koran Sura 5, verse 85, which speaks of enmity between Muslims and non-Muslims, reads: "Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers wilt thou Find the Jews and Pagans."A religion that sanctions violence (http://www.hvk.org/articles/0901/78.html)

It's the nature of the religion, ignorant heathen fool.

There are over one billion Muslims on this planet, and as shocking and alien as it may seem to you, they are not some monotlithic force with a single interpretation of Islam.There indeed schisms and factions within Islam, but Islam does not change because of that.

Some muslims are highly devout and fundamentalist and i might have a huge problem if they tried to bring that character into my government institutions. And no doubt you have some secret mind-reading device to know which Muslims are "highly devout and fundamentalist", when Islam allows and indeed advocates lying to infidels.

However, many are highly westernized, mostly secular, "casual" muslims, some even drink. These people don't bother me so much.And no doubt you actually believe that they are what they appear to be. Would you care to tell us about how the 19 muzzie assholes who brought us 9/11 lived in our culture prior to the attack? I submit, fool, that if you do some basic research, you will learn that they all seemed to be "highly westernized, mostly secular, 'casual' muslims" until September 11, 2001.

Do you, clue-bereft fool, really believe that terrorist infiltrators would draw attention to themselves by behaving as "highly devout and fundamentalist" Muslims?

You find quotes from the most monsterous and fanatical of Muslims and paint all Muslims that way, and call those that have a different, more moderate and secular interpretation of Islam not "true Muslims".Fool, you obviously don't have the merest familiarity with the nature of Islam (or with anything else, but that's another issue). If you did, you would know that the "quotes from the most monsterous and fanatical of Muslims" are 100% in accordance with the teachings of the religion.

Conversly when someone pulls out equally vile BS from a "Christian" you convientially claim they are not "true Christians".And that, foolish heathen, is because I am equally familiar with Christianity, and I know that the Christian faith does NOT teach such things.

Understand this, fool: when Muslims commit violence and murder, it is in obedience to the doctrines of Islam; when "Christians" commit violence and murder, it is in direct opposition to the doctrines of Christianity.

Congratulations, you are the doddering embodiment of the 'No-true-Scotsman' fallacy.Oh gosh golly gee willikers all to heck! Color me mortified by your dazzlingly brilliant comment. :rolleyes:

You see, I choose to judge individuals based on their actions and their words and recognize that in the US, most Muslims are just normal people trying to live in peace, make a living and be decent Americans while doing their religious thing.And you obviously have no idea what their "religious thing" is.

If only the Muslims in Europe -- with their hearts focused on the Islamic world and their carry-on liquids poised for destruction in the West -- could behave like the well-educated, secular and Americanizing Muslims in the United States, no one would have to worry.

So runs the comforting media narrative that has developed around the approximately 6 million Muslims in the United States, who are often portrayed as well-assimilated and willing to leave their religion and culture behind in pursuit of American values and lifestyle. But over the past two years, I have traveled the country, visiting mosques, interviewing Muslim leaders and speaking to Muslim youths in universities and Islamic centers from New York to Michigan to California -- and I have encountered a different truth. I found few signs of London-style radicalism among Muslims in the United States. At the same time, the real story of American Muslims is one of accelerating alienation from the mainstream of U.S. life, with Muslims in this country choosing their Islamic identity over their American one.

[snip]

From schools to language to religion, American Muslims are becoming a people apart. Young, first-generation American Muslim women -- whose parents were born in Egypt, Pakistan and other Islamic countries -- are wearing head scarves even if their mothers had left them behind; increasing numbers of young Muslims are attending Islamic schools and lectures; Muslim student associations in high schools and at colleges are proliferating; and the role of the mosque has evolved from strictly a place of worship to a center for socializing and for learning Arabic and Urdu as well as the Koran.America's Muslims Aren't as Assimilated as You Think (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/25/AR2006082501169.html)

Being the WaPo, the article is all kissy-kissy about the muzzies, but the facts are there. Same paper ...

Twelve girls sat in rows at the front of the community room in Silver Spring's Muslim Community Center, calming their nerves with giggles and girl talk. In their sweaty hands, they held prepared speeches. On their heads, they wore scarves in a rainbow of colors: pink, brown, gold, white and lavender.

The seventh- and eighth-graders were competing in a debate on this question: Is a segregated, all-Islamic upbringing key to protecting your Muslim identity?

Eight of the dozen argued yes, using variants of the theme offered by Fatimah Waseem. Young Muslims "join with the non-Muslims, copy them and look up to them. This is hurting our identity. . . . Sometimes, we turn way from Islam," she said. "In conclusion, . . . we cannot sway in the wind and become weak. We need to be protected . . . by segregation."

"Takbeer!" shouted some in the audience of proud, clapping parents as each girl concluded her case. "Let us praise God!"

Like Fatimah, most of the debaters attend Al-Huda School in College Park. It is run by Dar-us-Salaam, one of the Washington area's most conservative Muslim congregations. Many of its members believe that, in order to be true to their faith, they should live apart from secular society as much as possible. The congregation's Web site describes how it hopes one day to become a self-contained Islamic community.For Conservative Muslims, Goal of Isolation a Challenge (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/04/AR2006090401107_pf.html)

Have your tutor explain to you how those articles make very clear that Islam is hostile to Muslims assimilating into kafir (infidel) cultures. And then try to bullshit us about how true Muslims are "highly westernized, mostly secular, 'casual' muslims".

Just as I don't judge all Christians based on the hate-filled bile ...Ah, the liberaloonies' H-word. When at a loss for a rational argument (which in the case of liberals is 100% of the time), use "hate" or its variants, and we will all cower in abject horror at the imprecation. Here's a clue, fool: I don't hate asswarts like you. That would require the expenditure of far more emotion than you're worth.

... you and many of your ilk spew forth ...You're not chained to FC, fool. You can drag your punk ass out of here without the merest effort on our part to prevent it. And we won't miss you.

I don't judge all Muslims from the vomit that comes out of a Paki madras; i simply chalk it up to the stupidity of the individual.I chalk it up to your abysmal ignorance of Islam.

In any event the Constitution is clear on the matter of using religious criteria for office and either you respect the document or you don't; clearly you do not.And clearly you utterly ignored this in post #94:

Dogbreath, the goal of Islam is to ELIMINATE the Constitution and replace it with Sharia (read this quote (http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showpost.php?p=470346&postcount=24)). Under Islam, the religion is the state, as has been clearly demonstrated many times, and Muslims are loyal only to Islam. Therefore, clueless liberal, a Muslim CANNOT "be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution ..." A Muslim who makes such an oath or affirmation is a liar (although lying to infidels is honorable).

Because a Muslim is bound to Islam, not to the laws and customs of Dar al-Harb states, he therefore cannot legitimately be a Senator or a Rep.If the words of more than one syllable confuse you, it's not my fault.

BTW, fool, just once you might try backing up your fatuous opinions with external, verifiable substantiation. I grow weary of dealing with liberals who think that what they post must be accepted just because they posted it.

[Teenager]

oooh, your logical arguments are overwhelming. I shudder before the weight of your intellect.

You sir, are an embarrassment to the intellect of humanity.
(1) You come extremely late to this thread
(2) You start spouting off some of the dumbest "arguments" and "comparisons."
(3) You completely ruined a decent thread.

[Maggie_T]

*Y A W N*

Mike Savage is absolutely right. Liberalism is a mental disorder, which is why liberals are nutty as squirrel droppings.

And the buggers are going to get us all killed, sooner or later ... make that, sooner than later.