HOA Rule Forbids Couple To Smoke In Their Own Home

[BEST45CAL]

HOA Rule Forbids Couple To Smoke In Their Own Home

Judge Upholds Homeowners' Association Order


POSTED: 11:02 am MST November 16, 2006
UPDATED: 12:40 pm MST November 17, 2006

Other homeowners believe, as with loud music, that the rights of a community trump the rights of individual residents. The HOA is also concerned that tenants will sue those homeowners for exposure to second-hand smoke and this could be a liability issue.

The Source (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/10336501/detail.html)

[Riverboat]

Not to sound like a heretic, but I would concede a point to the HOA.

I could care less what you do you in your own domicile. BUT if I can smell (or hear) your habit where I live, then you are intruding on MY property. In neighborhoods with stand-alone houses, this should not be an issue.

Okay, if you're smoking outdoors and I can smell it, it might annoy me if I'm sensitive to smells, in which case I'm also sensitive to the smell of your barbecue pit, in which case I should probably move to a desert where I won't have to smell anything except camel shit.

But then that's why I refuse to live in a condo or an apartment. I might get a hankering for hickory-smoked ribs, and I'd hate to pop the neighbor in the snoot for complaining.

[BEST45CAL]

Apartment/condo dwellers have to be a lot more considerate of their neighbors. If these smokers lived in a single-family home that was on its own lot, there would be no problems. But the pro-smokers will see the word "home" and go ape$#!t, screaming about their rights being infringed or something. The HOA is right here.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

The one issue in this country we've never been able settle, or perhaps I should say, adequately define, is personal rights. While in theory we all agree 'one's rights end where another's begins' liberals insist on moving the end of one's rights, disregarding, or reestablishing, the beginning of another's.

A HOA has the right to make such decisions because one first must agree to abide by them before being allowed to join/move in.

Personally, I'm quickly developing an allergy to cooperative groups because too many times, more often than not, I am the one forced to compromise my positions and accept what is unacceptable to me. Last Tuesday (election) was a prime example.

[DeclinetoState]

A homeowner's association is a private group with elements of socialism laced throughout. I wouldn't ever want to belong to one. They seem to be run by busybodies with nothing better to do than micromanaging others' lives.

Your cat has too much black in its fur? Get rid of it.

Your new car is an inch too long? Get rid of it.

You fart too much every day? Change your diet so you stop farting so much.

The tattoo on your wife's ankle is too prominent? Get rid of the tattoo or get a divorce.

[Kathy30]

The HOA isn't right, of course it isn't right. But, this isn't about right, except the right to sue. Read the article carefully, what the residents want is the right to sue and get money. They could care less who smokes what, they just want to be "offended" so much that someone will give them a few bucks.

An HOA near here got their piss pots handed to them. The HOA passed a rule that pet owners could never leave the house leaving the pet. Not even to go to the store. They had to be in the house with the pet at all times.

Over one half of the residents stopped paying HOA dues and put their places up for sale. Dues in arrears to be paid out of escrow. Because so many are up for sale, would be buyers are scared off. That's the way to handle HOAs.

[Wyatt_Junker]

Now all the old ladies who play Bingo are gonna have to bogart their Marlboros when the HOA prez makes his rounds.

[gnome]

I agree with HomeschoolrsRUs and Kathy30. Technically the HOA is in the right because the buyer agreed to abide by the association's decisions when they moved in. It's a stupid policy though. Personally I think I will avoid ever joining such a community.

[Eagle1]

a HOA is nothing but an insane dictatorshp. Hobbes would be proud

[2nd_Amendment]

The presence of any such entity devalues a potential property purchase by 90% in the eyes of any sane individual.

I could handle the smoke a lot more easily than the knowledge I was likely to be next on some absurd issue-hit-list.

[BEST45CAL]

I think HOA's help to keep the riff raff to a minimum. Out here, if you get enough nuisance complaints against you, a lien can be slapped on the property. I'll have to check but I believe it's $10,000...per complaint.

[Timberwolf]

Thus, the reason most sane people avoid condos like the plague...

[Air-Warrior]

a HOA is nothing but an insane dictatorshp. Hobbes would be proud
No. They're quite beneficial when run soundly.

Mayors give them leeway to act as their own judge and jury if their charter is on file in the city because they keep the courts relatively free of stupid, petty stuff that can turn serious and ruin many peoples' property values. I speak from experience. I was a VP on a board. People insisted I stay on the board even when I moved out of the neighborhood. Yes, I riled many an occupant. I wanted the lazyier occupants to shape up and the speeders to be arrested daily (gasp!).

My most controversial proposal was insisting that folks with outdoor trampolines have a way of securing them so that kids couldn't use them without supervision/control of the property owner. Everything else I stood for amounted to forcing people to provide adequate upkeep for their homes and the attached property---mow and edge yer freakin' lawns and keep the grass alive. I coordinated community watch programs and got extra police patrols to come through our remote (recessed) community to catch speeders and strangers that were casing homes for burglaries. I hired landscape specialists to maintain ponds and other common areas that nobody else would care for without an HOA. My board meetings were places where lines of communication between the city (and it's agencies) and residents helped improve understanding and cooperation.

You clearly had no grasp of the benefits of a solid HOA did you?

[Air-Warrior]

The presence of any such entity devalues a potential property purchase by 90% in the eyes of any sane individual.

I could handle the smoke a lot more easily than the knowledge I was likely to be next on some absurd issue-hit-list.
I normally respect your posts 2A...but you are out in left field on this one. Gated and/or internally-managed neighborhoods are in high demand in my part of the world.

I could tell you horror stories of neighborhoods that had HOAs collapse due to lack of interest (one of them closed their HOA as soon as the developer finished building the last home there)...then their homes went to shyte due to lacking any enforcement of decency standards. Retirees and young couples who invested major bucks into nicer homes saw values decrease by a third or more within 18 months. After 2 years, I could not stand to drive into those neighborhoods...I could remember what they USED to look like and it was like a dagger in my heart to see what they'd turned into. Shitbird tenants spread like a cancer into those subdivisions.

[Republican_Legion]

a HOA is nothing but an insane dictatorshp. Hobbes would be proud

I agree. They are control freaks that should be outlawed for their totalitarian behavor. Most of them are run by the 'nosy people' who have nothing better to do then to just spy on people and make up rules they can use to show their power over others.

[Republican_Legion]

A homeowner's association is a private group with elements of socialism laced throughout. I wouldn't ever want to belong to one. They seem to be run by busybodies with nothing better to do than micromanaging others' lives.

Your cat has too much black in its fur? Get rid of it.

Your new car is an inch too long? Get rid of it.

You fart too much every day? Change your diet so you stop farting so much.

The tattoo on your wife's ankle is too prominent? Get rid of the tattoo or get a divorce.

Socialists is what they are and I agree they are usually busybodies with nothing better to do. A private owned socialist establishment.

Living in california we know that its mostly liberals in californias HOA's that make the rules and enforce them. From their bans on christmas to the anti-smoking brigrade.

[Wolfcounsel]

I mean nothing personal, but HOAs are best suited for the anal-retentive types.

[DesertFox]

I would concede a point to the HOA.

I could care less what you do you in your own domicile. BUT if I can smell (or hear) your habit where I live, then you are intruding on MY property. In neighborhoods with stand-alone houses, this should not be an issue.

Okay, if you're smoking outdoors and I can smell it, it might annoy me if I'm sensitive to smells, in which case I'm also sensitive to the smell of your barbecue pit, in which case I should probably move to a desert where I won't have to smell anything except camel shit. :claps: I mean nothing personal, but HOAs are best suited for the anal-retentive types. Nothing personal, but those who group all HOA's into one basket are likely anal-retentive types. Not for-sure, 100% certain, but likely. Though it's also likely they don't know it theirselfs.

[Republican_Legion]

:claps: Nothing personal, but those who group all HOA's into one basket are likely anal-retentive types. Not for-sure, 100% certain, but likely. Though it's also likely they don't know it theirselfs.

Nothing personal, but anal-retentives often like to accuse others of being anal-retentive.

[DesertFox]

Nothing personal, but anal-retentives often like to accuse others of being anal-retentive.Nothing personal, but you're right.

[Antigone]

I agree with HomeschoolrsRUs and Kathy30. Technically the HOA is in the right because the buyer agreed to abide by the association's decisions when they moved in. -gnome

Just a quick note: The rule was not in place when they moved in. The HOA amended the bylaws to add it.

Colleen and Rodger Sauve, both smokers, filed a lawsuit in March after their condominium association amended its bylaws last December to prohibit smoking.

[Republican_Legion]

I'm sure there is Conservatives that run HOA's but the majority of HOAs have been abused by the left for far too long and they unlike the goverment can get away with stripping a person constitutional rights.

I havent been to the deep south or midwest so I have no clue what the HOAs is like there. In california it is 60%-75% of the time run by guys/gals with squeamish voices and beady eyes that drive BMWs and vote democrat.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Nothing personal, but those who group all HOA's into one basket are likely anal-retentive types." --DesertFox

What grown up person really gives a rat's ass if his neighbor's grass is a little higher than the politically correct height? What mature person gives a flying hula hoop if his neighbor flies the Jolly Roger or the American flag? What kind of candy ass is going to whine to the nose-picking public servants because his neighbor smokes a legal product and his sensitive rectum takes a whiff of the smoke? What adult is going to call city hall and make those clowns come over to fine your house because your house paint is blue while most of the houses there are a bland white or yellow color?

The answer is, a person who is so tight-assed in whatever he does that even a fart cannot escape from him that easily. And don't you dare present yourself to him with a head hair out of place. He will tell Ramone, his hairstlylist, to fix it for you and later you'll get his bill.

[DesertFox]

don't you dare present yourself to him with a head hair out of place. Okay, if you insist. But ONLY if you insist. Well, maybe every second Tuesday whether you insist or not, but that's the onliest exception. Well, of course, excepting leap years. And anniversaries. But no birthdays.

[Wolfcounsel]

Each birthday is Anal-Retentive hair day unofficially.

[Trovalor]

This is an issue of which I have personal interest in, mainly because it goes to whose rights will supersede others. When it comes to smoking, I'm one of those people where you don't smoke around me period. Besides the stench, I'm one of those unfortunate enough to have been born as an asthma risk. By watching what I expose myself to, I have been able to avoid the need for any form of inhaler or medication. However when I am around some chemicals and any form of cigarette smoke (I should note that pipe and cigar smoke barely affect me) I have to vacate the area or it'll become very difficult for me to breath.

This is why it upsets when people light up in front of me with total lack of regard for who is around them, and why I can understand why this happened with the HOA. Cigarette smoke travels a long distance, lingers in the air, and has specific chemicals that are a health hazard to people like myself. So then it goes to whose right trumps who, my right to have clean air, or my neighbors right to light up whenever and wherever they want.

Bit of a side thought, but I can still remember seeing a mother who was smoking, her infant child was coughing up a storm, she picks up the kid and says, "aww, poor baby, are you sick?". I bit my tongue that day but would have loved to have told her ,"no, he is coughing because your blowing smoke in his face as you talk to him" with a few descriptive terms following.

[DeclinetoState]

Forget HOA's: what happens if a town like, say, Belmont, CA (http://no-smoking.org/nov06/11-16-06-3.html), decides to ban smoking in your home?

[Kathy30]

The problem with HOAs is that the rules change every time some other special interest group takes control. They become little dictatorships. When someone moves into a place they should have an expectation that the rules suddenly won't change on them to prohibit an ordinary activity.

Prohibiting smoking in your own home is one of these things. A condo association around here passed a law prohibiting leaving a pet at home alone. It didn't matter what it was, dog, cat, goldfish, a person could not leave a pet alone in the condo. More than half of the units went up for sale right away. Because of the rules, the units were unsalable. People moved out. Fortunatley the rules also said that if you moved out and your unit is for sale and vacant, you don't have to pay the monthly HOA fees, they will be paid out of escrow. Now the HOA had their income reduced by more than half. The rule was rescinded.

[Wolfcounsel]

"... what happens if a town like, say, Belmont, CA (http://no-smoking.org/nov06/11-16-06-3.html), decides to ban smoking in your home?" --DeclinetoState

The lawmakers are a group of anal-retentives (the opinion of some people). Then the anals decide to ban perfume because some candy asses are allergic to certain smells. Then peanut butter, because peanuts, or their smell, can harm certain people. Then come dirty cars. Must wash them so as not to offend the senses of more candy asses. Then a new law to ban barbecues, even in detached homes, because not everybody can get to grill outdoors. Then alcohol, because the anals want to make the town a dry town. Then snack machines, then candy in stores, then sodas, all for the good health of the people, the anal health nannies speak, and it WILL be done. Get the idea, you pro-candy asses and pro-anal people out there? You say it won't happen, because the law making anals will use common sense and liberty and freedom as their bases? Dum be sillee!<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[PrezLeefun]

I think I have made it clear I HATE SMOKING with a passion. And I think that certain bans on it are ok....


But this is insane. In People's own homes. NUTTY. And beyond overstepping.

[Air Force Guy]

a HOA is nothing but an insane dictatorshp. Hobbes would be proudNice generalization there bud.

Incidentally, if what you say is absolutely true about every HOA, what does it say about a family that volunteers to live under a HOA in a deeded community?

I served on a HOA board of officers as a VEEP. They do a lot of shyte jobs that no one person want's to be responsible for...without pay.

They have a "constitution" that is generally drawn up by a consensus vote in the community. They don't get to arbitrarily make up rules. In fact, they can be removed by a vote within one or two meetings. If they're really that far off their rocker (they being a majority of the neighborhood) then, by all means, get your aspirin outta Dodge tenderfoot...or vote'em out.

Pissing and moaning like a Democrat about 'unfair' AFTER your dumb ass signed the covenant (unread?) to get into a NICE neighborhood just makes people look like the ignorant wretches they are. Maybe if they'd have attended more HOA meetings they'd have been on top of the situation before it bit them in the hiney.

I have since moved to another neighborhood with it's own HOA and I like how things are run here too. No dirtbag white trash people or ghetto-minority folks coming in and causing property values to fall thru the floor with a crappy yard or decaying house.

[Wolfcounsel]

"I have since moved to another neighborhood with it's own HOA and I like how things are run here too. No dirtbag white trash people or ghetto-minority folks coming in and causing property values to fall thru the floor with a crappy yard or decaying house." --Air Force Guy

For now. If the demos get into the White House, you can bet your hoa that those poor, downtrodden, welfare recipients from Meheeco, the ones with several kids in tow and who are receiving children's bennies, will need low-rent housing, and the socialist lawmakers will stick their noses into the hoas and exclusive neighborhoods, fenced housing areas, Military housing, et cetera, open them up for everybody regardless, and then we can really say with truthfulness,

"There goes the neighborhood."<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[mateusrosé]

HOA restrictions and covenants have always trumped individual rights. Prospective buyers know beforehand and sign a contract that 1) they'll have to abide by rules already in place, and 2) that these rules can at any time be changed by action of the members.

This is why that form of ownership isn't for me. Let's just say I wouldn't take too kindly to an HOA magpie showing up on my doorstep to offer a critique of one thing or another.:rolleyes:

[Wolfcounsel]

"Let's just say I wouldn't take too kindly to an HOA magpie showing up on my doorstep to offer a critique of one thing or another.:rolleyes:" --mateusrose

I have my "critique" ready for Elmer if he comes to my door for that.http://freeconservatives.com/smilies/thefinger_red.gif<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Eagle1]

You clearly had no grasp of the benefits of a solid HOA did you?

I do, but they do not outweigh the costs. It could be solid and well run for a long time, then the leadership changes and starts saying that you have do their bidding.
No one is going to tell me what my house or yard has to look like. If I want it to be clean and neat then I will do it. If I feel like being lazy then my yard will look like I am lazy.
Why don't you go knocking on doors in non HOA areas and tell them what to do. You obviously feel it would be better for everyone to listen to you, so why don't you try to get the power to control them?

[Wolfcounsel]

"Why don't you go knocking on doors in non HOA areas and tell them what to do. You obviously feel it would be better for everyone to listen to you, so why don't you try to get the power to control them?" --Eagle1, to Air-Warrior

I'll be on my front porch sharpening my knives, waiting for an HOA representative to come try to get the power. I also keep my yard and house in a neat and functional condition, but I'll be damned if it's because I follow some neighborhood rules. And I WILL feel like being lazy now and then, also. FARK OFF, HOA's!<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[DesertFox]

Since you're doing it already, Wolfie, could you put a nice edge on a couple dozen knives for me? :question:

[Wolfcounsel]

You bet I can. I can make obsidian feel dull in comparison.