Support Growing for Border Patrol Agents

[Rhino]

This is currently a 'front page' headline on the Fox News site.

Lawmakers, Advocacy Groups Launch Last-Ditch Effort to Save Two Border Patrol Agents From Jail

Tuesday, January 16, 2007

By Liza Porteus

Two Texas Border Patrol agents who shot a Mexican drug runner in the backside on the U.S. side of the border are hoping a last-ditch pardon from President Bush will save them from serving more than a decade in prison.

Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean are scheduled to turn themselves in to authorities Wednesday to begin serving 11 and 12 years, respectively, for the February 2005 non-fatal shooting.

Several groups, including Friends of the Border Patrol, The Minutemen and Grassfire.org, have been trying through petitions to keep the agents out of prison — through either a motion to U.S. District Judge Kathleen Cardone to allow them to remain free on bond during an appeal or through a presidential pardon from Bush. About a dozen rallies took place across the country in support of the agents last week.

"Grassroots support for these gentlemen is just through the roof," said Grassfire.org spokesman Ron De Jong. He said people signing the petitions are saying to themselves, "'something just doesn't add up' and they're starting to make great waves."

"We are extremely hopeful that the light of justice will shine and this wrong will be right, because otherwise it would be an absolute travesty if these gentlemen had to go to jail for doing their jobs," De Jong added.

Compean and Ramos were found guilty in a jury trial of violating the civil rights of Osvaldo Aldrete Davila when they shot him in Fabens, Texas, about 30 miles east of El Paso, then tampering with evidence by picking up shell casings from the shooting.

The ex-agents say Davila had a gun, and that's why they fired at him, but a gun was never found.....http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,243921,00.html

[Lazarus]

If Bush doesnt pardon these brave, faithful, public servants, that will be the killing blow for me - The end... I will no longer support Bush... He will have proven to me that he is willing to abuse his power just to promote his personal agenda of Latinizing America, even at the expense of the lives of honorable men who were simply executing their sworn duty...

[Lubbock]

I'm probably going to get hammered for this, but I disagree with the general opinion of pardoning the Border Agents.

When you start digging for the truth and learn what really happened in this upscut, you learn that the Agents were [in my opinion] wrong.

The Agents fired weapons at an individual. The Agents claimed that they were fired upon first, and that turned out not to be the case. The Agents fired numerous rounds [I've heard a number as high as 32 rounds], then picked up their brass and failed to report the incident. That tells me right there that they knew they did something wrong.

When caught, they lied.

On the other hand, the very thought that the US government would seek out a drug smuggler and offer him immunity for testamony [which may or may not be the truth] against Law Enforcement Officers in this nation makes me sick to my stomach.

Now the damned smuggler is suing the US for a staggering amount of money, and some twit government lawyer will probably settle out of court for a staggering amount of money.

Makes me sick.

The entire thing is a fiasco, and badly handled by the United States.

But for cripes sake, don't blame Bush for it.

[CountryGent]

As a former LEO I do not condone what these BP Officers have done. They broke the law,were tried and convicted,and now they will suffer the consequences of their actions. Carrying a badge is no excuse for circumventing the law no matter what type of scumbag you are dealing with.

I am disgusted by the fact that the scumbag is being allowed to sue for monetary damage. That right should be reserved for American citizens only IMO.

[Lazarus]

These two agents got 10 years for not properly reporting the incident - for failing to fill out paperwork... Is there anything at all about this situation that even remotely smells funny to you people?????:flame:

[CountryGent]

These two agents got 10 years for not properly reporting the incident - for failing to fill out paperwork... Is there anything at all about this situation that even remotely smells funny to you people?????:flame:

I believe there are more facts and or violations regarding this case than that which you have cited. Obviously the Jury and Judge have such facts.

Also bear in mind that crimes tried in Federal Courts carry stiffer penalties than that of State courts.

[Lubbock]

What I'm trying to say is that there are abslutely NO HEROS in this thing.

Not a one in sight.

And further, if we don't get control of the borders, we will see more and more of incidents just such as this. There was a thread here a couple of days ago regarding a Border Patrol Station being fired upon by Mexican Parasites, Drug and/or Human Cargo Smuglers.

And before everone goes jumping on GWB's case because of the mess the borders are in, let me remind you that we've got 30+ years of pandering to Mexican Parasites by both sides of the political aisle; 30+ years of inattention to a growing problem by both sides of the political aisle for cheap labor and Mexican votes.

This problem didn't start with GWB, and it won't end with GWB.

It will end when someone gathers up enough gumption to put troops on the border with a standing order to shoot anything from the south moving north.

I'm not satisfied with GWB's handling if the border problem, but given the set of circumstances that he was handed, I think he's done as much as the politics of Washington would allow.

And let me make this observaton: Had it not been for 9/11, no one would be paying attention to the border at this moment. The border problem is not being looked at as a PROBLEM/THREAT, it's being used for a political football for votes and cheap labor.

By both sides of the aisle.

With a few exceptions.

[CountryGent]

What I'm trying to say is that there are abslutely NO HEROS in this thing.

Not a one in sight.

And further, if we don't get control of the borders, we will see more and more of incidents just such as this. There was a thread here a couple of days ago regarding a Border Patrol Station being fired upon by Mexican Parisites, Drug or Human Cargo Smuglers.

And before everone goes jumping on GWB's case because of the mess the borders are in, let me remind you that we've got 30+ years of pandering to Mexican parisites by both sides of the political aisle; 30+ years of inattention to a growing problem by both sides of the political aisle for cheap labor and Mexican votes.

This problem didn't start with GWB, and it won't end with GWB.

It will end when someone gathers up enough gumption to put troops on the border with a standing order to shoot anything from the south moving north.

I'm not satisfied with GWB's handling if the border problem, but given the set of circumstances that he was handed, I think he's done as much as the politics of Washington would allow.

And let me make this observaton: Had it not been for 9/11, no one would be paying attention to the border at this moment. The border problem is not being looked at as a PROBLEM/THREAT, it's being used for a political football for votes and cheap labor.

By both sides of the aisle.

With a few exceptions.

I am 100% in agreement with you.

My only issue is that the 2 BP LEO's broke the law and that is just wrong in my book.

And while the President can not be faulted for our past relations with Mexico and the slack guarding of our southern border he is certainly in a position to change that.

[Wolfcounsel]

Whack the agents' peepees, and place them on probation for screwing up. But by golly, anybody who shoots at a scumbag drug runner deserves a hero's medal, and a huge bounty if he kills him. And the sleazebucket cockroach has the cojones to file a lawsuit? May he die a violent death before he can fart in the courtroom!

[CountryGent]

Whack the agents' peepees, and place them on probation for screwing up. But by golly, anybody who shoots at a scumbag drug runner deserves a hero's medal, and a huge bounty if he kills him. And the sleazebucket cockroach has the cojones to file a lawsuit? May he die a violent death before he can fart in the courtroom!

IMO the BP agents should have arrested the scumbag and confiscated his drugs. In doing otherwise they violated their oath to uphold the law.

If the good guys(LEO's) start doing business like the bad guys then we may as well junk the whole damn system. Yeah I know the system is not perfect by a long shot but it is our system.

[Wolfcounsel]

"IMO the BP agents should have arrested the scumbag and confiscated his drugs. In doing otherwise they violated their oath to uphold the law." --CountryGent

I know two wrongs don't make a right, but I don't dismiss the reality that there are more than one public servant with his thumbs up his ass when it comes to protecting our borders. I call what those agents did a form of reckoning.

[Lazarus]

If I were a member of the border patrol, I'd find other employment and say goodby to this faithless government... This situation is an abomination...

[Kathy30]

The drug dealers who received a presidential pardon broke the law. They were convicted in courts and sentenced. Yet, they still got pardons. Hundreds of thousands of people asked Bush to pardon these agents. 55 republican and democrat senators asked Bush to pardon these agents.

Now we find out that not only did the illegal, scumbag, drug smuggler get immunity for the crime he committed but for subsequent crimes as well!
Snow said the White House believes "that the people who are working to secure that border themselves obey the law. And in a court of law, these two agents were convicted on 11 of 12 counts by a jury of their peers after a lengthy trial at which they did have the opportunity to make their case," he said.
He said questions about the fact that the government brought the man back from Mexico and gave him immunity on charges – including a subsequent attempt to bring drugs into the United States – to testify against the agents would have to be answered by a lawyer.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53802

[Lubbock]

In so many cases such as this, it's not the "crime" that gets you, it's the cover-up.

My question is this: if the BP Agents were fired upon as they allege, then why, when they returned fire, did they find it necessary to cover up that fact?

Probation would be good enough for me. Not ten years in prison. That's beyond the pale, but, as someone pointed out, Federal Sentencing is waaaay different than State Sentencing.

As to the Cockroach Parasite and that multi-million dollar lawsuit against the US for his trouble, you'll never get a Judge to dismiss the suit. An out-of-court settlement will be made and I still say that the fact the Drug Smuggler was given immunity for testamony against the BP Agents should be grounds for a firing squad to take care of the Federal Prosecutor who made the deal.

The entire thing just SUKS!!!

If any BP AGents are listenting, let this be a lesson to you: In the future, shoot, shovel and shut up.

[Rhino]

Did they say he fired at them? I thought they said he pointed a gun at them.

In any case, it was the coverup that nailed them. That having been said however, I still think the punishment is far beyond what is justified, and I think the government handled this terribly.

[CountryGent]

I know two wrongs don't make a right, but I don't dismiss the reality that there are more than one public servant with his thumbs up his ass when it comes to protecting our borders. I call what those agents did a form of reckoning.I agree with that only up to the point where enforcement of the law is concerned. LEO's do not have the right to act as Judge or Jury.....even when the perp seriously deserves a double-tap to the head......:biggrin:

[Lubbock]

I agree with that only up to the point where enforcement of the law is concerned. LEO's do not have the right to act as Judge or Jury.....even when the perp seriously deserves a double-tap to the head.

And I agree with that to the max.

Anytime a Law Enforcement Officer steps over the line, he really deserves whatever comes his way.

[Expect maybe in the case of an on-the-spot-execution of a pedophile. I just might make an exception in that particular case.]

[CountryGent]

And I agree with that to the max.

Anytime a Law Enforcement Officer steps over the line, he really deserves whatever comes his way.

[Expect maybe in the case of an on-the-spot-execution of a pedophile. I just might make an exception in that particular case.]

Pedophile's and child abuser's deserve whatever Justice finds them.........IMHO of course....:biggrin:

[The Barbarian]

The penalty seems excessive. But remember, they broke the law, tried to cover it up, and in doing so, let a drug smuggler go free. Not the judge, who has to follow the law. They did it.

And that deserves a little extra kick in the rear, as far as I'm concerned. Just not as big a kick as they got.

[Rhino]

I don't blame the judge for the length of sentence. I blame the prosecution. Civil rights my ass!

[CountryGent]

I don't blame the judge for the length of sentence. I blame the prosecution. Civil rights my ass!

Not positive about this but it just may be that the Judge was bound by a "Minimum Sentence" Federal sentencing mandate.

[Eagle1]

is there something wrong with killing drug dealers???

[Lazarus]

is there something wrong with killing drug dealers???Only if they are Mexican... :rolleyes: They are they Chosen People - didnt you get the memo?

[CountryGent]

Only if they are Mexican... :rolleyes: They are they Chosen People - didnt you get the memo?

:confused:According to the Liberal/Socialists the Muslims are the chosen people.....or is it the Dimlycraps........:confused:

[Lazarus]

:confused:According to the Liberal/Socialists the Muslims are the chosen people.....or is it the Dimlycraps........:confused:True enough... But the Border Patrol falls under the Executive Branch, not the Democrat Congress, So the definition is relative...

[Rhino]

Not positive about this but it just may be that the Judge was bound by a "Minimum Sentence" Federal sentencing mandate.That's why I don't blame him for the sentence length as much as I blame the prosecution for bringing the charges, most specifically the civil rights crap, and their pardon of a drug dealer in order to facilitate this farce.

[Lazarus]

That's why I don't blame him for the sentence length as much as I blame the prosecution for bringing the charges, most specifically the civil rights crap, and their pardon of a drug dealer in order to facilitate this farce.You may have the truth of it there, Rhino... This didnt have to be prosecuted as it was... I smell an activist prosecutor... Still I would like to know if the judge was bound to the sentence...

[Rhino]

There was a mandatory ten-year sentence and the judge added additional time for the obstruction of justice charge. The charges they were convicted of were; causing serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharge of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence, the civil rights violation and obstruction of justice.

[Rhino]

The mandatory ten-year sentence is for discharge of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence.

[Rhino]

That's why I don't blame him.....My mistake. It's a "her".

[Lazarus]

There was a mandatory ten-year sentence and the judge added additional time for the obstruction of justice charge. The charges they were convicted of were; causing serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharge of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence, the civil rights violation and obstruction of justice.So they went into this with the blatant attitude that these two agents are violent criminals... This has activist prosecutor and judge written all over it...

This gets sicker everytime I look at it...

[Lubbock]

There was a report on the Hume Report about this tonight. Did anyone else see it?

Did anyone wlse remember that the Mexican Parasite was shot in "the buttocks" by one of the Agents?

I remember hearing it months ago, but had forgotten it until it was recalled tonight.

[PackerFever]

On Oreilly tonight Tancredo says he would pardon the Border Guards. A no brainer, but how long does the President want these guys to serve before he thinks a message has been sent?

What kind of message is he trying to send anyway? If it is that these guys did not follow protocol fine, but c'mon they didn't kill anyone or barely injur him. The guy was not even afraid enough after that to go straight....he was caught doing it again and now has amnesty for testifying....WTF?

[DesertFox]

So they went into this with the blatant attitude that these two agents are violent criminals... This has activist prosecutor and judge written all over it...

This gets sicker everytime I look at it...I don't think so. They need to shoot the original perp first, THEN throw these idiots in jail. They aren't good guys, folks.

[nene]

This is what happens when dumbasses from both sides of the border meet.

The insane thing is that the winner in all of this is the drug trafficker. IMHO, if you smuggle drugs into this country, you deserve to die.

[CountryGent]

http://tinyurl.com/37rdm8

I'm betting the President will not issue a pardon.

[Lubbock]

The appeals process has to run its course --which course-run will be long after GWB is out of office.

That's my guess.

If appeals run like molasses through the Federal System [as they do in the State System], the Agents will be at least three years behind bars.

And I could be wrong.

The Death Penalty Appeal in the Federal System is about ten times faster than the State System.

And as I said on another thread: There are no heros in this entire mess. The Agents were wrong, and certainly the Feds were wrong to hunt up the drug smuggler and give him immunity.

The Agents should have been fired, but never had to face charges. They still maintain that they were fired upon by the Mexican Parasite, although they [nor anyone else] could ever turn up any evidence to back that up.

[CountryGent]

And as I said on another thread: There are no heros in this entire mess. The Agents were wrong, and certainly the Feds were wrong to hunt up the drug smuggler and give him immunity.

The Agents should have been fired, but never had to face charges. They still maintain that they were fired upon by the Mexican Parasite, although they [nor anyone else] could ever turn up any evidence to back that up.I agree and would only add that significant sentence reduction is possible based on their good behavior while incarcerated.

[Rhino]

The US Attorney released a statement on this the other day.

STATEMENT OF U.S. ATTORNEY JOHNNY SUTTON REGARDING THE
PROSECUTION OF BORDER PATROL AGENTS COMPEAN AND RAMOS

“For months, there has been a concerted effort by a few to intentionally distort the facts of the Compean and Ramos case. However, after a trial that lasted two and a half weeks, where facts were presented and the case was argued, Agents Compean and Ramos were unanimously found guilty by a jury in the United States Federal District Court. In order to dispel the myths and set the record straight, I have listed the facts of the case below:

“Agents Compean and Ramos were prosecuted by my office because they committed a number of serious crimes. They shot 15 times at an unarmed man who was running away from them and posed no threat. They lied about what happened, covered up the shooting, conspired to destroy evidence and then proceeded to write up and file a false report.

“United States Border Patrol agents are some of America's most unsung heroes. They have an enormously difficult job and, at times, they face great danger.

“The law recognizes that agents will make mistakes and the government takes responsibility for good faith mistakes made in the line of duty. But no agent is given license to willfully shoot an unarmed, fleeing suspect in the back simply because the job is difficult, dangerous or important. The job of federal prosecutors is to enforce the laws the best we can. If law enforcement officers break the law, they have to face the consequences just like anyone else. Agents Compean and Ramos were unanimously found guilty by a jury in a United States Federal District Court after a trial that lasted more than two and a half weeks. Both agents told their stories from the witness stand and had full opportunities to explain their version of events and to offer their own evidence. The jury heard everything including their claims of self defense. The
jury did not believe their stories because they were not true.

“In this case, the evidence showed that around 1:00 p.m. MT Aldrete, the Mexican alien, initially ran from the agents, but attempted to surrender with his empty hands raised over his head after Agent Compean pointed his shotgun at him. When Agent Compean tried to push Aldrete to the ground with the butt of his shotgun, Agent Compean tripped and fell. Aldrete then took off running again toward the Rio Grande River and Mexico. Compean chased Aldrete, firing at him with his pistol 14 times, pausing once to reload and then shoot some more. Agent Ramos shot once and struck Aldrete in the buttocks. Neither agent made any further effort to apprehend him. After the shooting, they lied to their supervisors about the shooting, picked up and threw away the fired shell casings and filed a false investigative report leaving out any mention of the confrontation with Aldrete.

“If Compean and Ramos truly believed Aldrete was a threat, why did they abandon him after shooting him? And if they truly believed the shooting was justified, why did they not report it, leave the scene undisturbed, and let the investigation absolve them? The answers to these questions are simple. The agents knew that Aldrete did not pose a threat as he fled, they knew the shooting was unjustified and unlawful, and they knew an investigation would incriminate them. So they chose to cover up their crimes.

“In America, law enforcement officers do not get to shoot unarmed suspects who are running away, lie about it to their supervisors and file official reports that are false. That is a crime, and prosecutors cannot look the other way.”http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/txw/press_releases/2007/compean_ramos_suttonstatement_1_17_07.pdf

[Rhino]

And this:

MYTH VS. REALITY--THE FACTS OF WHY THE GOVERNMENT PROSECUTED
AGENTS COMPEAN AND RAMOS

Myth: THE AGENTS WERE JUST DOING THEIR JOBS

Reality: Securing our nation’s borders can be a tough and dangerous job. Often, Border Patrol agents find themselves in difficult and dangerous situations. We give them guns and allow them to defend themselves. Border Patrol training allows for the use of deadly force when an agent reasonably fears imminent bodily injury or death. An agent is not permitted to shoot an unarmed suspect who is running away.

There was no credible evidence that the agents were in a life-threatening situation or that Aldrete, the Mexican alien, had a weapon that would justify the use of deadly force. In fact, Border Patrol Agent Juarez, who was at the scene, testified at trial that he did not draw his pistol because he did not believe there was a threat. He also testified that Aldrete did not have a weapon and was almost to Mexico when Agent Compean began firing at him.

In America, law enforcement officers do not get to shoot unarmed suspects who are running away, lie about it to their supervisors and file official reports that are false. That is a crime and prosecutors cannot look the other way.

Myth: THE GOVERNMENT LET A DRUG SMUGGLER GO FREE

Reality: My office would have much preferred to see Aldrete convicted and sent to prison for his crimes. We are in the business of putting guys like Aldrete behind bars. In fact, this office leads the nation in the number of drug smuggling cases we prosecute. Because the agents could not identify him, found no fingerprints, could not tie him to the van and did not apprehend him after shooting him, the case against Aldrete could not be proven.

Myth: THESE BORDER PATROL AGENTS SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED

Reality: The crimes committed by these agents rise to the level of felonies and are not mere administrative oversights. This was not a simple case of discharge of a firearm that was not reported. The truth of this case is that Agents Compean and Ramos shot 15 times at an unarmed man who was running away from them and who posed no threat.

This office cannot ignore these agents’ crimes just because the person they shot turned out to be a drug smuggler. Our system of justice requires that a person be tried in a court of law before he is punished. We do not permit police officers to summarily punish those whom the officers think have committed crimes. A police officer cannot shoot at an unarmed suspect who does not pose an immediate serious threat to the life of the officer or a bystander.

In order to maintain the rule of law, federal prosecutors cannot look the other way when law enforcement officers shoot unarmed suspects who are running away, then lie about it to their supervisors and file official reports that are false.

Myth: ALDRETE HAS BEEN ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING MORE DRUGS INTO THE UNITED STATES

Reality: Aldrete has not been subsequently arrested for drug smuggling. Our office is in the business of prosecuting drug traffickers and alien smugglers. We are on the front lines of this battle and we aggressively prosecute these criminals every day in court. In fact, the Western District of Texas leads the nation in the number of individuals we prosecute for illegally smuggling drugs into this country. If we had a provable case against Aldrete, we would prosecute him.

Myth: THE GOVERNMENT GAVE ALDRETE BLANKET IMMUNITY FOR HIS CRIMES

Reality: Agent Compean failed to arrest Aldrete when he attempted to surrender; instead, Compean tried to hit Aldrete with the butt of his shotgun, at which time Aldrete began to run towards the border. The agents shot at him 15 times, hitting him once, knocking Aldrete to the ground. Compean and Ramos chose not to walk over to the wounded Aldrete and arrest him; rather, they re-holstered their guns, turned around and left the scene. When Aldrete then got back to Mexico without having been apprehended and identified, there was no longer any way to tie him to the load of marijuana, except through his own admissions.

Prosecutors promised Aldrete they would not use his truthful statements and testimony to prosecute him for the events that occurred on Feb. 17, 2005. Prosecutors around the country routinely make similar representations to obtain crucial testimony. This type of “use immunity” does not give blanket immunity for any crimes he may have committed or may commit in the future. If there were other admissible evidence besides his own statements sufficient to convict him, he could be prosecuted for the offense he describes.

As a practical matter, the promise to Aldrete gave up very little since the case against him was not prosecutable. There was no way to prosecute Aldrete while he was in Mexico. We could not have forced him to come back to the United States to be prosecuted, and there was no evidence against him until he agreed to cooperate.

Myth: ALDRETE HAD A GUN AND THE AGENTS ONLY FIRED IN SELF DEFENSE

Reality: Trial testimony from other Border Patrol agents who were at the scene and who arrived shortly after the shooting shows that this is not true. Testimony further revealed that Agents Compean and Ramos never took cover nor did they ever warn the other agents to take cover. This action demonstrates that they did not perceive a threat. In his statement to investigators, Compean admitted that Aldrete had attempted to surrender with both hands open and in the air.

Had Agents Compean and Ramos truly believed Aldrete was a threat, they would not have abandoned him after the shooting and they would have warned their fellow agents who arrived at the scene to stay out of the open while an armed suspect was on the loose. If the agents had believed that the shooting was justified then they would have left the crime scene undisturbed and let the investigation absolve them. The agents knew that Aldrete did not have a weapon and they knew he posed no threat to them as he fled. Agent Juarez also testified that Aldrete was surrendering to Compean with his hands open and empty palms turned to Compean.

Myth: THE AGENTS WERE NOT SURE OF WHAT THEY SAW BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT

Reality: The events of Feb. 17, 2005, occurred at approximately 1:00 P.M MT.

Myth: JOHNNY SUTTON IS AN OVERZEALOUS PROSECUTOR WHO IS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE LAW

Reality: These agents were found guilty by a unanimous jury in a United States District Court after a trial that lasted more than two and a half weeks.

The two agents were represented by experienced and aggressive trial attorneys, both of whom vigorously challenged the Government’s evidence through cross examination.

Both agents told their stories from the witness stand and had full opportunities to explain their version of events and to offer their own evidence. The jury heard everything including the defendants’ claims of self defense. The problem for Agents Compean and Ramos is that the jury did not believe their stories because they were not true.

Myth: THESE AGENTS ARE FACING TOO MUCH TIME IN FEDERAL PRISON

Reality: Congress determined the penalties imposed on Compean and Ramos by setting the punishment for discharging a firearm during a crime of violence at a mandatory minimum of ten years (on top of any other sentence imposed). Congress did not make an exception for law enforcement officers

Myth: THE DRUG SMUGGLER WAS AWARDED A GREEN CARD

Reality: Aldrete was not given a green card which would enable him to have permanent legal resident status in this country. A military physician in the United States removed the bullet from Aldrete because it was an important piece of evidence and because the law requires the government to render such assistance. In order to have the bullet removed, meet with federal investigators and to testify in court in El Paso, he was entitled to come into the United States on limited basis within a limited geographical area and only for those purposes. The last time he was legally allowed to enter the United States was in February 2006.

Myth: ALDRETE NEVER HAD HIS HANDS UP AND WAS NOT ATTEMPTING TO SURRENDER

Reality: In their sworn testimony, Agent Compean and Agent Juarez both testified that Aldrete did have his hands in the air in an effort to surrender.

Myth: COMPEAN WAS BLOODIED FROM A STRUGGLE WITH ALDRETE

Reality: Trial testimony showed that the only blood on Agent Compean was between his thumb and forefinger and was a result of him improperly holding his weapon. When asked if he was injured, he said “no” and when further asked if he wanted to file a report for his injury, he again said “no.”

Myth: THESE AGENTS DID NOT REPORT THE SHOOTING TO SUPERVISORS BECAUSE THE SUPERVISORS WERE ON THE SCENE OF THE SHOOTING

Reality: The trial testimony of the defendants, fellow Border Patrol agents who were on the scene and who arrived shortly thereafter, as well as taped radio communications showed that there were no supervisors at the scene at the time of the shooting. The agents knew they must report any discharge of a firearm and had just received training to this effect the day before this shooting. Further, Agent Ramos was a Border Patrol firearms instructor and a member of the evidence recovery team. He was well aware of this requirement as he had taught this to other agents. They did not report the discharge because they knew the shooting was not justified. Furthermore, based on their training and experience, they were aware of what law enforcement resources would be dispatched to the crime scene to investigate a shooting, including sector evidence team, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and state and local law enforcement.

Myth: ILLEGAL ALIENS DO NOT HAVE ANY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS

Reality: The courts have held that the 4th Amendment to the Constitution protects all persons in the United States whether they are here legally or illegally. It is a violation of the 4th Amendment to shoot an unarmed person who poses no threat to the shooter. This law applies regardless of immigration status.

Myth: AGENT RAMOS CLAIMS THAT THE BULLET EXTRACTED FROM ALDRETE MIGHT NOT HAVE COME FROM HIS SERVICE REVOLVER

Reality: Agent Ramos stipulated and agreed before trial that the bullet extracted from Aldrete came from his service weapon. Independent forensic analysis also showed that the bullet extracted from Aldrete matched Agent Ramos’ weapon.

Myth: AGENT RAMOS WAS BORDER PATROL AGENT OF THE YEAR

Reality: Agent Ramos has never received any formal recognition or award for being the Border Patrol Agent of the year. In fact, he has been arrested on at least two occasions for domestic abuse and was formally disciplined for conduct unbecoming a federal officer.http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/txw/press_releases/2007/Compean_Ramos_factsheet1.pdf

[CountryGent]

Well that's not quite the scenario Red painted here is it?:rolleyes:

[Lubbock]

WOW!!!

This should put any further argument to rest.

Let's hope so, anyway.


Will it be okay of I go back and retract my statement about firing but not presecuting the agents?

They definately should have been prosecuted, and now they are behind bars --right where they should be.

Border Patrol Agent of the year, indeed.

[Timberwolf]

Seems to me the real fly in the ointment was the covering up of their actions...much like Nixon and Clinton. No one would've cared had they told the truth. They likely would've been given an official reprimand, a suspension and some probation. As in Nixon's and Clinton's cases, no one did care until they LIED about their actions and tried to cover it up.

[Apollo5600]

Because the agents could not identify him, found no fingerprints, could not tie him to the van and did not apprehend him after shooting him, the case against Aldrete could not be proven.

What about the bullet in his butt? That sounds like spin designed to cover the Prosecutor's butt.

[CountryGent]

What about the bullet in his butt? That sounds like spin designed to cover the Prosecutor's butt.

Perps have been known to inflict injury to themselves and blame it on LEO's. Happens pretty often............

The Agents themselves admitted to not knowing if they actually hit the guy they were shooting at.......

[Lubbock]

Myth: AGENT RAMOS CLAIMS THAT THE BULLET EXTRACTED FROM ALDRETE MIGHT NOT HAVE COME FROM HIS SERVICE REVOLVER

Reality: Agent Ramos stipulated and agreed before trial that the bullet extracted from Aldrete came from his service weapon. Independent forensic analysis also showed that the bullet extracted from Aldrete matched Agent Ramos’ weapon.
.
.
.
.
.
.
If this was all just a Government Conspiracy to "get" two Border Patrol Agents, then it sure was put together by a real smart cookie.

Dang. They even got an an independent lab to run the ballistics on the bullet and falsify the results.

[CountryGent]

That pretty much covers the bullet in the butt and cancels my "self-inflicted injury by the perp" comments.:biggrin:

[DeclinetoState]

I think they will serve their full sentences, since the law has established a 10-year minimum for just this sort of behavior, with no exemptions for law enforcement.

Based on the statements from the Department of Justice posted in another thread, it sounds like the punishment is appropriate. The agents fired on an unarmed suspect (a crime) then lied about it (another crime) and removed or destroyed evidence (more crimes). The ten-year sentences may be excessive, but if so, blame Congress, who wrote the law, and the President who signed it.

[DesertFox]

They likely would've been given an official reprimand, a suspension and some probation.I should hope not. To me, shooting an unarmed man, especially after he tried to surrender, is attempted murder.

[Beowulf]

I'm betting the President will not issue a pardon.

Of course not! We can't offend our "friends" in Mexico now can we?!:flame:

[DeclinetoState]

That pretty much covers the bullet in the butt and cancels my "self-inflicted injury by the perp" comments.:biggrin:

So John Kerry was not around at the time of the incident?

:D :evilgrin:

[Kathy30]

The mandatory ten-year sentence is for discharge of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence.

Here is the problem, the stupid law that when written was assumed that it would not be applied to law enforcement officers or the victims of crimes who are defending themselves. Since it's written this way, a man could come upon a home invader in the act of raping his wife and shoot him. The discharge of the firearm is in relation to the crime of violence, rape, and the hapless homeowner is the one getting ten years in prison.

This law is an incentive to commit crimes of violence. The criminal either gets away with it, or the victim is the one in prison.

[Timberwolf]

Problem is the prosecutor and the judge KNOW how the law is to be applied...with some friggin' common sense. The discharge of a firearm in the COMMISSION of a crime is one thing (which is with what the law contends), discharge of a firearm in the PREVENTION OF/DEFENSE FROM a crime is not within the framework of the "spirit" of the law and therefore is to be a moot point and those pusbuckets know it.

Pisses me right off.

[omegatrump]

The drug dealers who received a presidential pardon broke the law. They were convicted in courts and sentenced. Yet, they still got pardons. Hundreds of thousands of people asked Bush to pardon these agents. 55 republican and democrat senators asked Bush to pardon these agents.

Now we find out that not only did the illegal, scumbag, drug smuggler get immunity for the crime he committed but for subsequent crimes as well!
Snow said the White House believes "that the people who are working to secure that border themselves obey the law. And in a court of law, these two agents were convicted on 11 of 12 counts by a jury of their peers after a lengthy trial at which they did have the opportunity to make their case," he said.
He said questions about the fact that the government brought the man back from Mexico and gave him immunity on charges – including a subsequent attempt to bring drugs into the United States – to testify against the agents would have to be answered by a lawyer.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53802


I see demonstrated, in the support for the drug dealer, exactly what is wrong with our Nation.

The border patrol agents obviously interrupted some very important drug shipment, reminiscent perhaps of the Mina Arkansas incidents.

If one needs to kill a drug dealer to stop him from running away to smuggle another day, then one should be able to do it. It's only decent.

As for picking up the brass, well, I always pick up my brass. Isn't that what your supposed to do? I learned that in the army, Police the brass. For us re loaders brass is expensive, how can that be evidence against anybody?.

[Rhino]

They didn't know he was a drug dealer when they shot him. The drugs were found later.

[Dowple]

The US government made a choice. It elected to prosecute two border patrol officers instead of a known drug smuggler. The case against the border patrol agents could only have proceeded with the help and immunity given to the mexican criminal. Had the government elected to seek the extradition of the smuggler for his crimes, instead of giving him the right to file suit against US taxpayers, there would never have been any case. Mexico's corrupt narcotrafficking government would never have produced the guy. But our government made a decision: it decided to help the drug smuggler and imprison the agents. One or the other. And our government sided with a corrupt trafficker from mexico.

[Rhino]

The US government made a choice. It elected to prosecute two border patrol officers instead of a known drug smuggler.There was no choice available. They couldn't prosecute the drug dealer. They had no evidence, and no drug dealer.

The case against the border patrol agents could only have proceeded with the help and immunity given to the mexican criminal. Had the government elected to seek the extradition of the smuggler for his crimes, instead of giving him the right to file suit against US taxpayers, there would never have been any case.That wasn't possible.

Mexico's corrupt narcotrafficking government would never have produced the guy. But our government made a decision: it decided to help the drug smuggler and imprison the agents. One or the other. And our government sided with a corrupt trafficker from mexico.They sided with enforcing the law, just as they're supposed to. They would have been happy to prosecute Adilla, had that option been available to them, but it wasn't.

[Lubbock]

It's not any more complicated than this:

When the drug smuggler was on his knees surrendering, if the Agents had taken him into custody then --or even after he was shot in the butt, if they had just taken him into custody then, he could have been prosecuted.

He had abandonded a van that was hauling 750 pounds of pot. You think his fingerprints weren't all over that van? You think he couldn't have been tied to that van.

Had he Agents taken him into custody, which it appears they had a couple of ripe opportunities to do so [even after one of the Agents tripped over his own feet and fell to the ground], the smuggler would have been in cusody.

Even after they discharged their weapons at an unarmed man, they certainly could have pled that they believed him to be armed. They both may very well have believed at the time that the Mexican Thug was armed, although they both said later that they knew he was unarmed.

Who wouldn't believe that a Mexican Thug driving a van carrying 750 pounds of pot wasn't armed?

It is absolutely a part of the undisputed record that these Agents had been disciplined in the past for bad conduct. Not poor conduct. Bad conduct.

If you want to get down to brass tacks, this entire thing could have been avoided if the Agents had been rousted out of the Border Patrol when they should have been.

[Dowple]

Again, the only way the government had "evidence" sufficient to convict the agents was to go and get the smuggler, give him immunity, and pave the way for his lawsuit against US taxpayers. When faced with that choice, the government should have done nothing. Even if we grant that the border agents did anything wrong, the multiple wrongs committed by the mexican illegal alien serial drug smuggler were worse. You don't free the more guilty in order to pursue (what the government believes to be) the less guilty. How much longer before Gitmo detainees are given immunity, the right to sue, and amnesty in return for "testifying" against US military guards who may or may not have peed on their Korans?

[CountryGent]

If you want to get down to brass tacks, this entire thing could have been avoided if the Agents had been rousted out of the Border Patrol when they should have been.True but not really possible because minorities are well protected from being fired no matter how high their level of stupidity ascends to.

[Rhino]

You don't free the more guilty in order to pursue (what the government believes to be) the less guilty.The only people who freed him were Ramos and Compean. The prosecutors never had him to free him, nor could they have. I don't like the idea of immunity for the guy either, but it was the only way to prosecute Ramos and Compean, and they did in fact break the law. In other words, you don't free the less guilty in order to pursue the more guilty, especially when there is no way possible to pursue them. We don't set rapists free just so we can pursue child molestors or murderers. We enforce all of our laws, to the maximum extent possible, no matter who breaks them. Law enforcement officers are not exempt.

[CountryGent]

We enforce all of our laws, to the maximum extent possible, no matter who breaks them. Law enforcement officers are not exempt.And I would add that LEO's are held to a higher standard of obeying the laws. They ALL know and accept THAT when they put on the badge.

[Lazarus]

...We enforce all of our laws, to the maximum extent possible, no matter who breaks them. Law enforcement officers are not exempt.I can agree with that...

In fact that comment needs to be printed in letters 6 feet high around the oval office in case the president has forgotten that he took an oath to enforce those same laws - including our current immigration laws... As the chief executive, he sets a bad example when he picks and chooses which laws he wants to enforce and which he wants to ignore... :smirky:

[Pendragon_6]

Investigator: U.S. attorney twisted evidence to fit case – 'guilty of malicious prosecution'

January 28, 2007
By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

Ballistics reports, used in the trial of Ignacio "Nacho" Ramos, one of two Border Patrol agents convicted of shooting fleeing drug dealer Osbaldo Aldrete-Davila, do not support the prosecution's claim the bullet was fired from Ramos' gun, according to documents provided to WND from Andy Ramirez, chairman of the Friends of the Border Patrol.

Despite the conclusion of a laboratory criminalist that he could not conclusively link the bullet removed from Aldrete-Davila with Ramos' service weapon, a Department of Homeland Security agent swore, in an affidavit of complaint filed against Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean, that Aldrete-Davila was hit by a round fired by Ramos.

"Johnny Sutton and his assistants are guilty of malicious prosecution," Ramirez charged to WND. "The prosecutors lied to the jury and he twisted evidence to make it fit his case. And when he couldn't twist the evidence, the government demanded that the court seal evidence which would have been exculpatory to the defense."


In Full
WND (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53976)

[Rhino]

Ramos stipulated at the trial that the bullet was from his gun.

[Rhino]

Merged the three threads on the Border Patrol Agents. It was getting really hard to keep up with all the stuff in different threads.

[RED]

Ramos stipulated at the trial that the bullet was from his gun.


You keep coming up with these one liners. Where do you get your info? Can you supply a link? I've heard over and over, the border agent didn't even know he had hit him with any gunfire? Now, he must have testified that he shot at him, so confronted with a bullet said to be taken from the DRUG TRAFFICKER, I'd guess, not being a lawyer, he'd assume it was from his gun. But it's not?

[Rhino]

Post #40 in this thread.

[TheIrishman]

First of all, noone knows if he was armed or not. Second, the guards were tried under a law that should NOT have applied to them, and actually doesn't. The guards testified they thought he pointed a weapon at them. They had to run down the truck and then run him down and then he took off and they fired when it looked like he was going to.

Coverup?? If I shot 32 times at a guys butt and didn't hit him and stop him, I wouldn't want anyone knowing about it, either.
[And where did one of the posters get the kneeling on the ground bit?]
If he has a bullet in his butt from the guards shooting, THAT should convict him of drug smuggling.

[TheIrishman]

They did NOT break the law they were convicted of!!!!!!!!!

[Republican_Legion]

I take it RED is not coming back. I saw that his user status went from 'Member' to 'Registered User'.

[CountryGent]

I take it RED is not coming back. I saw that his user status went from 'Member' to 'Registered User'.

Did he finally get banned?:claps:

[Republican_Legion]

Did he finally get banned?:claps:




Why is that a good thing ?
IMO he was one of the few that are fed up with GWB's compassionate conservativism.

[CountryGent]

I know of no one here who favors amnesty......:confused:

I myself favor guns,bombs,land mines,electrified fences,rabid dogs, and anything else we can put on the Border to keep the ILLEGALS out of our Country......:D

[Rhino]

First of all, noone knows if he was armed or not.the agents testified that Aldrete was unarmed when he attempted to surrender, but they apparently didn't search him before they assaulted him.

Second, the guards were tried under a law that should NOT have applied to them, and actually doesn't.What law is that?

The guards testified they thought he pointed a weapon at them. They had to run down the truck and then run him down and then he took off and they fired when it looked like he was going to.No, that isn't how it happened. The truck was halted in what amounts to a normal traffic stop. Aldrete wasn't fleeing them in the truck. they then assaulted Aldrete when he was trynig to surrender, with his empty hands in the air. ramos fired 15 shots while chasing him, and even reloaded. compean fired once with the shotgun. the agents testified that they never saw a gun when all this took place. ramos testified that he thought he may have seen something in Aldrete's hand when he turned once while crossing the river, but he didn't know if it was a gun, and this occurred after they had fired almost every shot. they never took any actions that they would normally take when confronting an armed suspect, such as taking cover, nor did they ever state to their fellow agents that Aldrete might be armed.

Coverup?? If I shot 32 times at a guys butt and didn't hit him and stop him, I wouldn't want anyone knowing about it, either.they fired 16 times.

[And where did one of the posters get the kneeling on the ground bit?]that's what the agents testified to at the trial. see post #40 in this thread.

If he has a bullet in his butt from the guards shooting, THAT should convict him of drug smuggling.How so?

[Patriot Heart]

Update from Grassfire:
+ +
From the Desk of:
Steve Elliott, President
Grassfire.org


2/2/2007


Grassfire has just learned that Fox TV's "America's Most Wanted"
will run a story featuring Agents Ramos and Compean, this
Saturday, February 2.

According to the National Border Patrol Council, the
Department of Justice has twice asked that the show
not be aired!

Grassfire is urging ALL members of our immigration
and border agents team to check your local listings, and
make a point to watch Fox television’s America’s Most Wanted
this Saturday, February 2.

Contact your friends and family and urge them to watch as well.

Thanks for standing with Grassfire!

Steve Elliott
President
Grassfire.org Alliance

++ Sign our "Pardon the Border Agents" petition:

http://www.grassfire.org/142/petition.asp?PID=11606990 (http://www.grassfire.org/142/petition.asp?PID=11606990)

[buckeyepete]

Saturdaythe 2nd?

[omegatrump]

I can agree with that...

In fact that comment needs to be printed in letters 6 feet high around the oval office in case the president has forgotten that he took an oath to enforce those same laws - including our current immigration laws... As the chief executive, he sets a bad example when he picks and chooses which laws he wants to enforce and which he wants to ignore... :smirky:

Now, Lazarus, you said a mouth full. We likely wouldn't be having this debate if we had a commander in chief that believed in enforcing our laws. Our Immigration and Border Laws. By his vacuum of leadership on this issue alone, he has created a situation that puts a lot of undo pressure on our law enforcement community. It ultimately all comes back to him.

[Apollo5600]

The guy who does "America's most wanted" came out in strong support of the two Border Patrol agents on Fox recently.

[Beowulf]

Did he finally get banned?:claps:



Why should he be? He's as sick of W's ass kissing to illegals and sleeping with the enemy (Democrats) as many of us are. If Red deserves banning then so do I.

The guy who does "America's most wanted" came out in strong support of the two Border Patrol agents on Fox recently.
That would be John Walsh.

[Timberwolf]

From what I understand, the bullet was recovered by Campean's supervisor's supervisor (who is "tight" with the drug runner that got capped in the behind). The bullet is not a match to either Agents' gun. The perp was shot while running, arm outstretched behind him - as in, running while firing a handgun at the Agents.

The Border Patrol "upper eschelon" down there is as corrupt as any law enforcement unit in Cuba, Venezuela or any other 3rd world dictatorship.

As long as the rumors are flying, I thought I'd add what I've been hearing.

[Rhino]

From what I understand, the bullet was recovered by Campean's supervisor's supervisor (who is "tight" with the drug runner that got capped in the behind). The bullet is not a match to either Agents' gun.It matched Ramos's gun.

[omegatrump]

From what I understand, the bullet was recovered by Campean's supervisor's supervisor (who is "tight" with the drug runner that got capped in the behind). The bullet is not a match to either Agents' gun. The perp was shot while running, arm outstretched behind him - as in, running while firing a handgun at the Agents.

The Border Patrol "upper eschelon" down there is as corrupt as any law enforcement unit in Cuba, Venezuela or any other 3rd world dictatorship.

As long as the rumors are flying, I thought I'd add what I've been hearing.

Even if the bullet matched the gun, that doesn't excuse the corruption you mentioned. It doesn't take much to get a bullet that matches the gun.

We clearly have a situation that speaks directly to the problem we have with our border. The biggest law breakers are those who have sworn to uphold the Constitution of the USA and guard our nation against attack and invasion. I am not speaking of the lowly border agent. If we prosecute these agents then we must prosecute those who have created this untenable situation by ignoring the border issue. The Justice department's negligence in this matter far outweighs any law broken by agents shooting a drug dealer. Just think of the millions of lives affected negatively by the drugs and criminals who have been allowed to cross our borders unchecked. Far, far more egregious, hands down.

[d'urville]

Well, some say the bullet matched, others say it never did. He was shot by somebody at some point in the ass, but if it was by Ramos, how did Alderte-Davila then cross a river and outrun two Border Agents?

This happened in February 2005. :



Western District of Texas U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton, whose office prosecuted Ramos and Compean, has denied numerous times that Aldrete-Davila brought a second load of narcotics into the United States after being granted immunity.

Sutton said in a Jan. 17 "Myths vs. Reality" press release that "Aldrete has not been subsequently arrested for drug smuggling. Our office is in the business of prosecuting drug traffickers and alien smugglers ... If we had a provable case against Aldrete, we would prosecute him."

Sutton's assertion that Aldrete-Davila has not been arrested is accurate. However, an Oct. 25, 2005, DEA report shows that DEA investigators believed they had sufficient evidence to indict Aldrete-Davila, but their requests to do so were denied by prosecutors.

http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_5312457

No comment from Sutton or his people.