Hasn't made the newswires yet BP Agent beaten by illegals

[Kathy30]

One of the Border Patrol agents now in prison for doing his job was severely beaten today. He was beaten unconscious and blood was running from his ears. He was put into general population and the guards tipped the illegals who he was. He has so far been denied any medical care and is in great pain. Dana Roerbacher California congressman found this out while trying to get permission for Ramos to call his wife since today is his birthday. Congressman Roerbacher has been on radio shows in LA all afternoon trying to make people aware of what has happened. The story is NOT being picked up by the media.

[Patriot Heart]

Well of course we all know that the trial was fair and just and he got what he deserved... NOW does it smell like a rat????

[Republican_Legion]

This is terrible news. I bet the amnesty crowd is happy. LA-RAZA and McCain probally set Ramos up. Thnx for reporting it Kathy.


Rohrabacher - A congressman from my neck of the woods :)
And one of the last Reagan Republicans in the house.

[Irish Mom]

What happened to these brave border patrol agents to begin with was a crime! To have this happen just infuriates me! And for Bush to not pardon them is just unforgivable . . he could have spared this from happening.

I hope that someone in our government comes to their senses and does something to get these guys out!

[DoctorDoom]

There's no mention of it anywhere. Is it a reliable source?

[Republican_Legion]

I dont think Kathy30 would make this up.
Like she said it was on the radio. We'll have to ask her what station it was and the website of the station.

[libertyman]

I dont think Kathy30 would make this up.
Like she said it was on the radio. We'll have to ask her what station it was and the website of the station.

I read about this on another website....if Kathy30 is correct (which U believe), it IS Agent Ramos. The prison officials refused to let him call his family for 48 hrs, that's what I read. Absolutely disgusting! :flame:

[libertyman]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54110

INVASION USA
<!-- end standing head --><!-- head --> Border Patrol agent
beaten up in prison
<!-- end head --><!-- deck --> Ramos' family confirms: 'They kicked me
in the head, they kicked me all over the body'
<!-- end deck --> <hr size="1"> Posted: February 5, 2007
10:27 p.m. Eastern

<!-- byline --> By Jerome R. Corsi
<!-- end byline --> <!--- copywrite only show on NON commentary pages as per joseph meeting 8/23/06 ------> <!-- copyright --> © 2007 WorldNetDaily.com <!-- end copyright -->
<!-- intelliTXT --> <!-- Kontera --> <!-- begin bodytext --> Imprisoned Border Patrol agent Ignacio "Nacho" Ramos was severely beaten in prison, Ramos' family members have confirmed to WND. <table align="right"> <tbody><tr> <td width="200">http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/ramoswife.jpg
Monica Ramos embraces her husband, former U.S. Border Patrol agent Ignacio Ramos, two days before he was sentenced to 11 years in prison (Courtesy El Paso Times)


</td> </tr> </tbody></table> In interviews with WND tonight, both Ramos's wife Monica and father-in-law Joe Loya confirmed that Ramos says he was assaulted in prison on Saturday night by a group of five Spanish inmates who Ramos took to be illegal immigrants.
In a phone call from prison, Ramos told his wife earlier today that the assailants allegedly threatened him in Spanish, taunting him with, "**** la migra," insulting him – "migra" roughly translating as "immigration," slang for Border Patrol agent.

[libertyman]

Please forgive me folks, I'm still trying to learn how to post articles correctly. Have I missed anything???

[MSGT]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54110

[Apollo5600]

Well isn't that just great, just beautiful! Bush better get off his ass and get those men out of there. I don't care how guilty they are, the freaking illegal was running drugs, and was basically pardoned inorder to send these men to Prison. Get them out now!!!

[Wolfcounsel]

And still the public servant who can do anything about this appears to be pushing his thumbs farther up his ass.:flame:

[DoctorDoom]

Thanks for the link, MSGT. Apparently it took a while for the news to disseminate.

I dont think Kathy30 would make this up.Nor did I. Evidently there's a lag before Google catches up with the headlines. There is still no evidence that the wire services and MSM sites will touch it. Even Fox hasn't mentioned it. But we'll see what develops as the day goes on.

[Lubbock]

FOX did report this morning on a Deputy Sheriff in a Texas border county who has been prosecuted for basically the same scenario as Ramos and Campeon , and by the same Federal Prosecutor who prosecuted Ramos and Campeon.

As much as I believe in sworn Law Officers not breaking the law, I will say this: It's beginning to sound as if Sutton is waaaaaaaaaay over-zealous in going after US Law Officers. It sounds as if he's waaaaaaay too quick to take the word of illegals over a US Law Officer. It sounds as if he's waaaaaaaaaaay too quick to grant immunity to Mexican Parasites.

I'm starting to have some real serious doubts about the US Government side of this whole thing.

We all know Fitzfong is waaaaaaaaay over zealous in the way he's prosecuted Scooter Libby.

We all know how Prosecutors "make their bones." Nifong in North Carolina is a great example.

I'm guessing that Fitzfong is running for something [just as Nifong was].

Could it be that Sutton is making his bones on the backs of US Law Officers as a prelude to running for office?

[Wolfcounsel]

I smell drugs and drug money exchanging hands here between our law people and the Mexican cockroaches.

[Kathy30]

As far as I can tell, not a single MSM has picked this story up. I don't think drugs or drug money enters into this at all. This is bigger than drugs. This is the extent of the political will to open the border and keep it open. This whole thing was a warning shot to the BP to stop doing their jobs or get the same thing. This was the exact same thing as a Godfather Don getting a horse's head in his bed.

[Wolfcounsel]

"This is bigger than drugs." --Kathy30

First things first. Open up the borders to allow the free flow of drugs into this country.

[Lazarus]

This is the beginning of the actual collapse of this nation... We are no better than the Banana Republics these people are importing with them... I am now personally convinced that this is orchestrated political corruption at the highest levels... It is meant to be a message to the rank and file border partol agents that they will hear loud and clear and will not forget...

I believed earlier that this next two years would just be a circus with the Dems acting as clowns for our entertainment, and nothing of any significance happening until '08, because Bush would stand in the gap... I was a fool...

I now believe firmly that the next two years are going to be our worst nightmare... We may as well have Clinton back in the Whitehouse...

[Wolfcounsel]

When police are told not to enforce a law, it is up to good people to take up the fight. Any public asshole who gets in the way, well, he got in the way. Does that sound about right?

[Rhino]

I hope that someone in our government comes to their senses and does something to get these guys out!They deserve to be in jail, but what incredible idiot put them in the general population??? They never do that with law enforcement officers!!! I smell a rat, or an incredibly stupid person that needs to pay for this.

[Wolfcounsel]

"They deserve to be in jail, but what incredible idiot put them in the general population???" --Rhino

Either they deserve wherever they get put, or they don't. These agents were after a scumbag, not an innocent civilian. The difference between these agents and some of our public sleazebags in Washington is that the Washington sleazebags have not been brought to justice. And I'll bet the politicians are screwing with the general population, and shaking hands with the enemy, while they wag their fingers at the Border Patrol.

[Rhino]

Either they deserve wherever they get put, or they don't. These agents were after a scumbag, not an innocent civilian.They deserve to be in jail, but not in the general population. And they didn't know who he was after until after the fact. For all they knew at the time, they were after an innocent civilian. But even if they had known who he was, it still wouldn't excuse their actions. In any case, even a total moron knows you don't put convicted law enforcement officers in with the general population.

[Air-Warrior]

They deserve to be in jail, but not in the general population. And they didn't know who he was after until after the fact. For all they knew at the time, they were after an innocent civilian. But even if they had known who he was, it still wouldn't excuse their actions. In any case, even a total moron knows you don't put convicted law enforcement officers in with the general population....unless you want them among the dead by the end of the month.

[Lubbock]

After hearing the report this morning regarding the Deputy Sheriff and the Border Incident that will send him to prison, I'm starting to smell more than one rat.

By no means am I looking for an excuse for Ramos and Campeon [not yet, anyway]; apparently, they testified to their own misdeeds.

I'd like for someone to take a long, hard, objective look at this Sutton character.

I do question this: "He was put into general population and the guards tipped the illegals who he was. He has so far been denied any medical care and is in great pain."

Something about that doesn't smell right either.

If true, you can look for a real firestorm to begin soon.

[BEST45CAL]

He didn't deserve to get beat up, but he needs to learn how to defend himself until he can get out of there.

[libertyman]

He didn't deserve to get beat up, but he needs to learn how to defend himself until he can get out of there.

Being a Border Patrol agent, I'm sure he was well-trained in self-defense....but the report said he was outnumbered 5-to-1, so I doubt if there a whole lot he could do; & those running the prison showed little concern for his life & safety. Could they have been following orders from higher-ups?

[BEST45CAL]

Perhaps, if you're talking about the higher ups who are in prison, the ones who actually run it.

Yep, dude fell asleep and was ambushed. I guess that first kick to the head stunned him.

[Rhino]

Please forgive me folks, I'm still trying to learn how to post articles correctly. Have I missed anything???You missed the fact that this was already posted, but I'm going to merge the threads anyway. Otherwise you did okay, except that including the picture kinda messed up the format. No big deal there, though. Apparently you didn't include the link with the original post, as well. That was corrected.

[Pennville_Bill]

Well isn't that just great, just beautiful! Bush better get off his ass and get those men out of there. I don't care how guilty they are, the freaking illegal was running drugs, and was basically pardoned inorder to send these men to Prison. Get them out now!!!

Agreed!

[Rhino]

......and the guards tipped the illegals who he was.Apparently they got it from TV.

Loya said the other inmates recognized Ramos from a segment about the case on the television show America's Most Wanted.http://www.elpasotimes.com/breakingnews/ci_5162707

[Beowulf]

:flame: This is an act of war in my book. When will the government learn it's time to keep the scums on their side of the border AND deport all that are here.

[Patriot Heart]

Grassfire Email update and numbers to call:

Imprisoned Border Agent Ignacio Ramos was assaulted and beaten
in prison Saturday night following the airing of America's Most
Wanted, Ramos family members confirmed to Grassfire.org yesterday
afternoon.

Agent Ramos told his wife, Monica, that he was kicked multiple
times by up to five men with steel-toe boots, shouting profanities
in Spanish and saying "Kill the Border Agent." The family reported
to us that he had extensive injuries, was bleeding from the ear
and may not have received medical attention for up to 48 hours.

The story was first posted on Grassfire's new FireSociety
community. Go here for details, including my interview last
night on L.A.'s flagship ABC radio station with Al Rantel:

http://www.firesociety.com/article/10219 (http://www.firesociety.com/article/10219)

+ + Action Item: Call the White House

Bill, we must draw a line in the sand right here --
these border agents are in mortal danger because our government
took the side of an illegal alien drug runner. Nacho Ramos is
in a prison full of illegals who understand this is a war and
will stop at nothing to strike back against him and against
our nation.

I am asking you to call the White House today, express your
outrage and demand that the President pardon these two men.
Two numbers -- call them both:

Switchboard: 202-456-1414

Comment line: 202-456-1111

Email:

Comments@whitehouse.gov

+ + Rally your friends

We still need 5,766 petitions to reach 300,000 in time for our
delivery tomorrow to Congress. Please ask your friends to go
here and sign:

http://www.grassfire.org/142/petition.asp?PID=11606990 (http://www.grassfire.org/142/petition.asp?PID=11606990)

Finally, be sure to check back to Monica Ramos' personal blog
for more updates:

http://firesociety.com/blogs/139/ (http://firesociety.com/blogs/139/)

Thanks for the stand you are taking!


Steve Elliott, President
Grassfire.org Alliance

[dPrasse]

And for Bush to not pardon them is just unforgivable . . he could have spared this from happening.

This IS what was supposed to happen to him ... The BP and Nat Guard are NOT to stop anything ... those doing their jobs are acting against the wishes of higher powers ...

[omegatrump]

This IS what was supposed to happen to him ... The BP and Nat Guard are NOT to stop anything ... those doing their jobs are acting against the wishes of higher powers ...

Absolutely correct.

This entire fiasco has been orchestrated from the upper levels of evil. The message is as others have said, "hands off the drug scum". The Bush Crime family and friends intend to send this message.

Ramos did nothing wrong, his only mistake was that he didn't kill the rat.

[Kathy30]

Ramos just happened to be released from solitary confinement the day America's Most Wanted was to be on TV.

The segment just happened to be on the tube in the inmate lounge.

The five inmates just happened to be wearing steel toed boots. Steel reinforced footware isn't allowed in prison to begin with.

None of the guards just happened to notice five guys jumping Ramos.

Ramos and Campeon were sent to prison to be killed. Bottom line. It's a warning to any one else who might want to start enforcing the law.

[Apollo5600]

They deserve to be in jail, but what incredible idiot put them in the general population??? They never do that with law enforcement officers!!! I smell a rat, or an incredibly stupid person that needs to pay for this.

At best they should have lost their jobs, not be sent to prison for 10 or 12 years. These men have families, and frankly, shooting a drug runner in the ass isn't on my list of heinous crimes.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Ramos did nothing wrong, his only mistake was that he didn't kill the rat." --omegatrump

Where there is one rat, there are others that need exterminating also.

[Republican_Legion]

shooting a drug runner in the ass isn't on my list of heinous crimes.

According to the PC crowd we have to respect the feelings and rights of the Drug Dealers by sending those BP agents to jail where they will be murdered by Illegal aliens.

[Apollo5600]

For all they knew at the time, they were after an innocent civilian.

Let me see if I understand. This freaking cretin was trying to make his way across the border inside a truck, does that sound like innocent behavior? Next, he was confronted by BP agents (I wonder why?), fled, and got shot in the butt while fleeing on foot (they do say he turned and pointed something, and according to Tancredo the bullet hit him in the side of the butt). Does that sound like he could be mistaken for a innocent civilian?

[DoctorDoom]

This affair reeks of politicians pandering for "Latino" votes. "See how tough we are to those who don't respect the Constitutional rights of border-jumping wetbacks. Vote for us and we'll see to it that your fellow Mexicriminals will be safe as they shit on America's laws."

Screw the pendejos. Kill every fugging of them the instant their feet hit US soil, and let the carrion-eaters have a smorgasbord of Mexican food.

[DoctorDoom]

Who remembers this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/DocDoom777/International/LA-Mex.jpg

And this.

<img src="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/maywoodflag.jpg" align="left" hspace="8" />Backers of illegal immigration at a rally near Los Angeles took down an American flag at a U.S. post office, stamped on it and replaced it with a Mexican flag as police looked on, according to witnesses and a video of the event.

Police officers in Maywood, Calif., Saturday eventually came to the pole to remove the flag but had bottles and rocks thrown at them, a radio listener named Sandra reported to the Terry Anderson show, heard on KRLA in Los Angeles.

... [P]hotographs can be seen here on the website of Save our State (http://www.saveourstate.org/), a border-security group represented there along with the Minutemen to protest Maywood declaring itself a "sanctuary city" for illegal aliens.<br clear="all" />Mexican flag flies at U.S. post office (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51746)

[Kathy30]

The government set these guys up from the get go. The evidence against them was fabricated by the Department of Homeland Security. There was no proof that they did anything wrong at all.

Here is a list of the government's lies:

confessed to knowingly shooting at an unarmed suspect;
stated during the interrogation they did not believe the suspect was a threat to them at the time of the shooting;
stated that day they "wanted to shoot a Mexican";
were belligerent to investigators;
destroyed evidence and lied to investigators.http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54132

[MSGT]

Ramos just happened to be released from solitary confinement the day America's Most Wanted was to be on TV.Most prisons hold court on Mon, Wed and Fri. Inmates have the right to trial within 72 hrs of a rule infraction. AMW came on Sat.

The segment just happened to be on the tube in the inmate lounge.Never been in a prison that didn't watch it and "Cops" every single time it came on.

The five inmates just happened to be wearing steel toed boots. Steel reinforced footware isn't allowed in prison to begin with.That's his allegation.

None of the guards just happened to notice five guys jumping Ramos.After lights out in a Med security prison {they had cubicles}. More than possible. The lower security classification the less guards.

Ramos and Campeon were sent to prison to be killed. Bottom line. It's a warning to any one else who might want to start enforcing the law.If anyone with any power what so ever wanted them dead, they would be dead.

[Republican_Legion]

If anyone with any power what so ever wanted them dead, they would be dead.

I disagree. I think there is patriots like Rohrabacher and Hunter who have been monitoring this case that have managed to keep those guys alive.

Ramos and Campeon were sent to prison to be killed. Bottom line. It's a warning to any one else who might want to start enforcing the law.


Correct. The fact they survived is a warning out there to any border agents wanting to stop the Invaders from coming in.

[MSGT]

We're getting real DU here on this one guys.

[Republican_Legion]

We're getting real DU here on this one guys.

:question:

[Wolfcounsel]

There is such a thing as reckoning, people. I believe more than a few imprisoned wetbacks will see their last bedtime alive. It's a vicious circle, heh heh.

[MSGT]

They deserve to be in jail, but what incredible idiot put them in the general population??? They never do that with law enforcement officers!!! I smell a rat, or an incredibly stupid person that needs to pay for this.They probably requested general population. If they request protection they get locked up in a small cell 23hrs a day. One hour out of cell for shower and exercise {walking around in a small cage in full restraints}. Very limited possessions {no personal clothing, food from canteen, smokes, radio}, very limited phone calls, no tv room, no rec room.

Some large places have an entire area of the prison for protective custody. That's where the rats and punks go {high HIV area}.

[MSGT]

I disagree. I think there is patriots like Rohrabacher and Hunter who have been monitoring this case that have managed to keep those guys alive.
In prison, it would have been easier to kill him than beat him up. If they wanted him dead he would be dead. By just beating him up you make alot more noise but somebody's gonna roll over on the rest to make a deal or just to get out of the murder charge.

If anyone with any kind of power wanted him dead. He would be found hanging in his cell. Suicide is most likely at the start of a sentence.

[Rhino]

Let me see if I understand. This freaking cretin was trying to make his way across the border inside a truck.....No. It was a regular traffic stop on a normal road. He wasn't coming across the border at the time, and that's not why they stopped him. They didn't know about the drugs either, until later, after the shooting. So, for all they knew, they were shooting an innocent person in the back while he was running away. That's not enforcing the law, at least not in this country. And as has been said before, it would still have been illegal for them to shoot him even if they knew he was an illegal and even if they already knew about the drugs. Sorry, but I don't agree with giving law enforcement officers free reign to shoot fleeing suspects in the back. I don't like illegals any more than anyone else here, but cops who are above the law is most definitely not the solution.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Sorry, but I don't agree with giving law enforcement officers free reign to shoot fleeing suspects in the back. I don't like illegals any more than anyone else here, but cops who are above the law is most definitely not the solution." --Rhino

How about prison guards who are above the law and allow punks to beat up anybody they want?<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Rhino]

I don't agree with that either, as I already said. They shouldn't be in general population either.

[Wolfcounsel]

They should just be re-assigned to a desk job and let that be the end of it. I still smell stinking drug money in the law enforcement section.

[Rhino]

I stated long ago that their punishment probably would have been less severe had they not tried to cover things up. I think that tainted everything else. However, with the ten year minimum for the gun charge, their sentence still may not have been much less.

[Lubbock]

There is something about this that stinks. I think that was the general concensus yesterday.

An attorney who represents the agent was on FOX this morning. Did anyone see her?

She stated that the agent has not yet seen a doctor for his injuries.

Does anyone believe that?

[DesertFox]

We are seeing once again the Manichaean, all-one or all-the-other thinking on the board. If you think these dudes did wrong, you're a pinko who favors illegal immigration and hates America, no matter what else you have done or said.

[Wolfcounsel]

"If you think these dudes did wrong, you're a pinko who favors illegal immigration and hates America, no matter what else you have done or said." --DesertFox

Okay. I won't argue with you there.:evilgrin: <!-- / message -->

[Rhino]

There is something about this that stinks. I think that was the general concensus yesterday.

An attorney who represents the agent was on FOX this morning. Did anyone see her?

She stated that the agent has not yet seen a doctor for his injuries.

Does anyone believe that?Not really. I'm suspicious of it too.

[Rhino]

We are seeing once again the Manichaean, all-one or all-the-other thinking on the board. If you think these dudes did wrong, you're a pinko who favors illegal immigration and hates America, no matter what else you have done or said.I dunno. Although some have vehemently disagreed with me, I can't recall anyone explicitly stating such comments to me, beyond mere generalizations, and those are common in heated debate. I've seen such claims laid toward some others though.

[Lubbock]

I'm not all-one or all-the-other. I'm trying to look at it with objectivity.

The whole thing didn't make sense from minute one. The first story I began to hear was about was that Border Patrol Agents were being persecuted [that's persecuted, not prosecuted] for rying to inforce the law --and all of the reporting was weighted in favor of the Agents being wronged by the Justice System.

Anybody with one eye and half sense had to know that wasn't right. That was only one side of the story.

I learned a long time ago that no matter how thin you slice the bologna, there's still two sides to it.

Then we get the statement out of the US Attorney's office. I'm guessing that the statement was vetted seven ways from Sunday and gave a straight forward synopsis of exactly what went on.

Then we get a story that the Judge and the Prosecutor were working in concert to deny a fair trial.

Then yesterday I hear a report from a Texas Legislator about a Deputy Sheriff being prosecuted under basically the same scenario --this one involving a Coyote and a dozen or so illegals coming acorss the border. I think it also involved the discharge of a firearm.

The prosecutor for the Deputy Sheriff is the some one who prosecuted the Border Agents, and involved giving immunity to the Coyote and the illegals --who all told the same story after being put in an interview room together in order to get their story straight.

My question now is about Sutton and his tactics.

See past posts on this same thread.

[Rhino]

The story is on Fox News now.

Officials: Inmates Beat Border Guard in Prison for Shooting Mexican Drug Smuggler

Wednesday, February 07, 2007

By Liza Porteus

One of two former Border Patrol agents sentenced to more than a decade in prison for shooting and wounding a suspected Mexican drug smuggler was beaten by a group of inmates last weekend, a Texas congressman confirmed to FOXNews.com.

Ignacio Ramos, who was transferred to the Yazoo City Federal Correctional Complex in Mississippi last month to begin serving his 12-year sentence for the February 2005 shooting of Osbaldo Aldrete-Davila, was placed in a special housing unit after the incident pending an investigation, according to T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council.

"We received verbal confirmation from the prison folks that he was assaulted and went to the infirmary and was treated for injuries," Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, told FOXNews.com, adding that he has requested a written report of the incident.

Another agent, Jose Compean, is serving 11 years in another facility for the same border shooting.

Prison authorities, in a statement issued Monday, said that Ramos reported to the staff on Saturday around 10:15 p.m. ET that he was assaulted and that he sustained some 'minor' bruises and abrasions, Bonner said.

Some members of Ramos' family claim the assault happened after the airing of an "America's Most Wanted" segment featuring both Ramos and Compean. They say the attack happened after Ramos fell asleep.

"Nacho was assaulted Saturday night by about five illegal immigrants who were yelling at him in Spanish, 'Maten a la migra' — which means 'kill the Border Patrol agent,'" one family member said, according to Grassfire.org, a group that has petitioned President Bush to pardon the two agents and has been working with the agents' families.

Ramos' father-in-law, Joe Loya, told FOX News that after the attack, Ramos was locked up in isolation for two days until he was given medical treatment.

Grassfire.org and Ramos' family dispute the prison report saying he suffered minor injuries. Grassfire.org in a press release says Ramos suffered "multiple and severe injuries." The release also said that a family member claims Ramos' attackers beat him with repeated blows and kicks and that he suffered wounds to his back, shoulder, arms and head.

"Our government has betrayed these agents," said Grassfire president Steve Elliott. "And now they have put these men in mortal danger. I am frightened for the lives of these two family men. This is beyond outrage, and I am calling on grassroots Americans to express their outrage directly to the White House — demanding the president pardon agents Ramos and Compean before it's too late."

Bonner said Ramos believes that he was assaulted by four or five people and that his injuries are more than 'minor."

"I believe him more than I believe the Department of Justice and its attempt to minimize this," Bonner said. "After all, this is the same Department of Justice that's tried to cover up the facts surrounding the" case, he added.....http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250574,00.html

[Kathy30]

No. It was a regular traffic stop on a normal road. He wasn't coming across the border at the time, and that's not why they stopped him. They didn't know about the drugs either, until later, after the shooting. So, for all they knew, they were shooting an innocent person in the back while he was running away. That's not enforcing the law, at least not in this country. And as has been said before, it would still have been illegal for them to shoot him even if they knew he was an illegal and even if they already knew about the drugs. Sorry, but I don't agree with giving law enforcement officers free reign to shoot fleeing suspects in the back. I don't like illegals any more than anyone else here, but cops who are above the law is most definitely not the solution.

That's the official prosecution story. We know now that the whole thing was a pack of lies. It was made up by the Department of Homeland Security.

[dPrasse]

We are seeing once again the Manichaean, all-one or all-the-other thinking on the board. If you think these dudes did wrong, you're a pinko who favors illegal immigration and hates America, no matter what else you have done or said.

So , if we disagree with your point , we are wrong ?

Rhino ,

While I'll agree it is not good to have free reign for law enforcement to shoot to kill anyone they wish ...

in the inner cities , fleeing from a police officer usually gets one shot "to stop" , which is what happened to this fleeing , drug running illegal , he recieved the treatment any suspect fleeing from the law usually gets ...

... reasonable suspicion or something like that ...

And , very rarely are cops , lawyers , Judges , etc placed in "general quarters" just because of the danger posed to them ...

This is just another stinky attack on those sent to enforce laws ...IMO of course ... :D

[dPrasse]

From thew sounds of the Officers names , they "sound" Hispanic , so , at least they can't claim it was 2 redneck cowboys out rascist killing

[MSGT]

<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->How about prison guards who are above the law and allow punks to beat up anybody they want?
I once had a guy stabbed about 15 ft away from me and never saw it. I was watching 140 inmates at the time and it was work call {all of them moving around}. Even if you are standing there and see it all you can do is grab 1 or 2. With 5 inmates they are gonna do what they came to do until backup gets there {usually under a min.}. The only way to control this kind of situation with 1 or even 2 officers is the inmates have to fear what will happen to them if they attack an officer. This has been on a steady decline as we get more liberal in the prisons.

[Rhino]

That's the official prosecution story. We know now that the whole thing was a pack of lies. It was made up by the Department of Homeland Security.The agents testified that it was true.

[dPrasse]

The only way to control this kind of situation with 1 or even 2 officers is the inmates have to fear what will happen to them if they attack an officer. This has been on a steady decline as we get more liberal in the prisons.

I agree there ! The "fear factor" has been taken out of the system . The "fear factor" now is the Guards hoping the inmates do as they are told ...

[MSGT]

From thew sounds of the Officers names , they "sound" Hispanic , so , at least they can't claim it was 2 redneck cowboys out rascist killingIt's making it really hard not to make fun of the guy. I mean c'mon guys, Nacho.......................





http://www.gastongazette.com/blogs/jjimison/uploads/nacho%20libre.jpg

[Rhino]

in the inner cities , fleeing from a police officer usually gets one shot "to stop" ....I don't doubt that happens sometimes, but it's still illegal. As I said, I think this would have gone far better for them had they not tried to cover things up. I think many would have downplayed the incident otherwise.

[dPrasse]

Agreed .. but , it makes real good shoulda , woulda , mighta fights ! :D

[Rhino]

Yep.

[CountryGent]

I have already posted my opinions regarding these 2 BP LEO's much to the chagrin of the lefties here.:D

I certainly do NOT agree with them being exposed to the Prison general population tho. That is just asking for them to be hurt/killed. The Warden needs to be bitch-slapped for allowing this to happen.:flame:

[Republican_Legion]

I have already posted my opinions regarding these 2 BP LEO's much to the chagrin of the lefties here.:D

Whos the lefties ? The ones against Illegal Immigration ?

[Republican_Legion]

The agents testified that it was true.

Kathy30 and others still disagree.

[MSGT]

You can't force an inmate into protective custody. It is very restricted living. If they requested PC and was refused...that's a different story.

Under the conditions of PC, 10yrs is a long time. It's better to go into population right away than to be known as a PC inmate and go into population later.

[CountryGent]

Whos the lefties ? The ones against Illegal Immigration ?[/left]

I did not specify anything regarding illegal immigration. As to the lefties here they know who they are.....and so do I.:D

[Republican_Legion]

I did not specify anything regarding illegal immigration. As to the lefties here they know who they are.....and so do I.:D



? Well I havent seen any of those leftys post in this thread so perhaps you'd like to point them out.

[Rhino]

Kathy30 and others still disagree.I know, but the agents were there and Kathy wasn't. You can lead a horse to water......

[MSGT]

I think Doc summed it up the prosecution in post 40.


There's dirt on everyone involved

[Patriot Heart]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Kathy30 http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/images/white/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showthread.php?p=518242#post518242)
That's the official prosecution story. We know now that the whole thing was a pack of lies. It was made up by the Department of Homeland Security.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
The agents testified that it was true.


The TRANSCRIPT says they said it was true??? Did anyone here actually HEAR them say that? If this is a coverup, false transcripts would not be difficult to produce......

[Patriot Heart]

I have already posted my opinions regarding these 2 BP LEO's much to the chagrin of the lefties here.:D

What the hell does questioning a trial that stinks to high heaven have to do with being a lefty?

[Rhino]

The TRANSCRIPT says they said it was true??? Did anyone here actually HEAR them say that? If this is a coverup, false transcripts would not be difficult to produce......The transcripts haven't been released. They won't be until appeals are exhausted, though I don't really know why that is. That was what was reported from their testimony. If it wasn't true, you'd have been hearing about it from every treetop long before now.

[CountryGent]

What the hell does questioning a trial that stinks to high heaven have to do with being a lefty?

The "questioning" of the trial should be done by virtue of the appeals process.
I did not list the any criteria for the identification of any lefties here btw......:D

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Okay, I'm now on the fence regarding this. The more I hear, the more things are less clear. Was listening to Rush's show today coming back from coop, and Roger Hedgecock was filling in for him. He had a fellow on from WorldNetDaily regarding this, who said he had in his possession the actual Homeland Security documents regarding this case, and that they do not match in anyway what the government is otherwise putting forth as their case against these two BP agents. This is all starting to stink to high heaven.

[Rhino]

Was it Corsi? Wouldn't surprise me a bit then.

[Lubbock]

How does one go about getting information regarding Sutton's prosecutorial record?

I don't know that I've climbed up on the fence yet --seeing as how the Agents testified to their own misdeeds at trial [unless that information is also being misrepresented], but something is off about Sutton.

Supposedly --and that's SUPPOSEDLY in Caps, Sutton has given immunity to another bandit from South of the Border --this one a Coyote, as well as the cargo the Coyote was smuggling.

I want to know more about Sutton.

Is this a political agenda? Is Sutton grinding his ax in preparation for running for office in El Paso?


By no means am I ready to give the Border Agents a pass, but I am willing to entertain the idea of giving them the benefit of the doubt if some of what I'm hearing is true.

In no way to I buy into WorldNetDaily more than about 15% of the time.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Is this a political agenda? Is Sutton grinding his ax in preparation for running for office in El Paso?" --Lubbock

If my hunch is right, this clown, along with other higher-up clowns will be grinding more than axes, in prison, soon.

[Lubbock]

Tom Tancredo is on Cavuto right now talking about this case.

Tancredo is [as I have stated previously] one of the few politicians who hasn't made an ass of himself over this --all wild-eyed ranting.

Tancredo says this case will be overturned on appeal.

If these Agents were truly railroaded, then the case should be overturned on appeal.

The Texas Congressman [must be from one of the border counties] that I heard speak yesterday was not a wild-eyed raving lunitic either. He set it out in pretty clear terms, what has happened to the Deputy Sheriff down there, and just what Sutton's role in it was.

It's the wild-eyed raving lunitics that put me off, and it's what clued me to the fact that there had to be more to the case than what they [the wild-eyed lunitics] were putting out.

I'm going to say this one more time: No matter how thin you slice the bologna, there's still two sides to it.

That is a Life Lesson that some could benefit from.

[Rhino]

Is this a political agenda? Is Sutton grinding his ax in preparation for running for office in El Paso?Certainly possible, but given the publicity this case has garnered, I have serious doubts that the higher ups would allow something like that. You just know this has to have been scrutinized all the way up to the White House. It may not be impossible, but it incredibly stretches plausibilty.

[CountryGent]

If these Agents were truly railroaded, then the case should be overturned on appeal.I agree 100%. And if that turns out to be the case heads should roll.....:flame:

[Lubbock]

" . . . that the higher ups would allow something like that . . . "

To go back to my point from yesterday, we know of two cases where "higher ups" have certainly allowed it: Nifong in North Carolina: the State Attorney General should have taken a hand in that case when the Defense first asked him to; and Fitzfong in the Libby case. Is there anyone here who doesn't believe that Libby is being railroaded for a Political Agenda?

As far as I'm concerned, both Nifong and Fitzfong are guilty of Prosecutorial Misconduct, and in my mind that sets us up for the possibility that Sutton is guilty of the same thing for the same reason.

All we have so far is He Said [Sutton], They Said [the Agent's Supporters].

Transcripts. But remember, even with the Transcripts, we won't know what went on in Side Bars.

Does anyone know if any or possibly most of the court documents are available on a website. I can't remember the name of the site that is so popular, but there's one out there that is real good about putting up Filings that are a part of the Public Record.

I wonder if seeing the documents [Pleadings/Motions/Judge's Rulings] wouldn't be more informative than the Transcript.

[Rhino]

There are several such sites. Findlaw is one of them. But none of them had the transcripts when I checked, and comments were made that they wouldn't be available until the appeals process is exhausted.

[Lubbock]

No, I know we won't get the transcript until after the appeals. I'm talking about the Pledings.

I just heard Judge Napalatino on The Big Sory. He said he's read the transcript.

Wonder how that happened?

He said, from the transcript, that the Agents definately belong behind bars.

Also, Campeon apparenty specifically requested to be put into the Protected Prison Population, while Ramos specifically DID NOT.

Can anyone say AGENDA?

Is it getting any more smelly?

[Rhino]

Ramos' dad said he got the trial transcripts for $9,000. I wonder where he got them? Pleadings I don't know about.

[Republican_Legion]

He said, from the transcript, that the Agents definately belong behind bars.



I just lost my respect for that judge. He always gave me the impression of a 'Moderate'.

[Rhino]

Interesting discussion at Freerepublic.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1776016/posts

[Patriot Heart]

They were good old fashioned scapegoats, it seems to me.


Imprisoned border agent did report shooting
<!-- end head --><!-- deck -->DHS memo shows Compean spoke to supervisor immediately after incident
<!-- end deck -->
<HR SIZE=1>Posted: February 7, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern



<!-- byline -->By Jerome R. Corsi
<!-- end byline --><!--- copywrite only show on NON commentary pages as per joseph meeting 8/23/06 ------><!-- copyright -->© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com <!-- end copyright -->
<!-- intelliTXT --><!-- Kontera --><!-- begin bodytext -->WND has obtained a Department of Homeland Security memo (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54134) indicating Border Patrol agent Jose Compean made a complete, in-person verbal report to his supervisor at the scene immediately following the shooting incident for which he and colleague Ignacio Ramos are now in prison.
The May 15, 2005, report filed by DHS Special Agent Christopher Sanchez documents a conversation between Compean and his supervisor that explains the decision by all nine Border Patrol agents and supervisors on the scene not to file written reports.
As reported by WND yesterday, a DHS memo filed by Sanchez April 12, 2005, shows seven agents and two supervisors were present at the Feb. 17, 2005 incident also decided not to file written reports. The April 12, 2005, DHS memo stated that all the agents present at the incident were equally guilty for not filing a written report.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54133

[Rhino]

Link doesn't work for me, but somebody already posted it somewhere. We have numerous threads on this issue in several forums. Maybe we should start a forum dedicated to Ramos and Compean.

[Rhino]

The complete article is printed here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1780531/posts

It also states that they admiited to not filing a report in the transcript the memo referenced, so the headline isn't just misleading, it's a lie. But, knowing Corsi, that doesn't surprise me.

Compean testified:

As …As I stated to … umm … to this earlier … I didn't … I just … I know it was wrong for us not to reported it (sic)I've never given great credence to WND in the past due to their tendency to sensationalize. But after some of the stuff Corsi has posted on this issue, they're now on a par with the National Enquirer in my opinion.

[Republican_Legion]

I'm starting to really like WND. :)

[Lubbock]

The Free Republic thread was interesting. They are as divided as we are.

Anyone who gives WND any credence is just asking to be lied to.

What does WND hope to accomplish by publishing lies?

[Rhino]

The Free Republic thread was interesting. They are as divided as we are.Did you read both of them?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1780531/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1776016/posts

[Republican_Legion]

Anyone who gives WND any credence is just asking to be lied to.

What does WND hope to accomplish by publishing lies?

WND hasnt lied.

[Rhino]

That headline was a lie, and the text in the article pointed it out.

[Kathy30]

It's real easy to find out if WND lied. Call Congressman Culbertson's office and ask him if there's an investigation as to who lied at DHS?

I did. The story is true.

[Republican_Legion]

It's real easy to find out if WND lied. Call Congressman Culbertson's office and ask him if there's an investigation as to who lied at DHS?

I did. The story is true.

Yep but they still wont believe it. It must be backed up by CNN/MSNBC/CBS for them to believe it.

[Kathy30]

Culberson was also on a Houston radio station talking about it. He's serious about getting to the bottom of the phony case the government built.

If either of these agents die in prison, two republican congressmen, Culberson and Roerbacker and going to push for impeachment against Bush.

[MSGT]

Too much misinformation on the whole case. I think the prosecutor is on a witch hunt and I think the BP agents shot at an unknown and tried to cover it up.


Let's look at the story at hand for a min.

Dude was kicked with steel toe boots.

I call bullshit. What did he do in the dark press in on the toe checking for steel toes as they kicked the crap out of him?

There were 5 guys.

I call bullshit. While things can happen in prison. Five people after lights out is major movement.

Wasn't seen by medical for 2 days.

I call bullshit. This happened on Sat. Now, maybe he didn't see the doctor until Mon. but he was sure seen by medical staff shortly after reporting an attack.

It's clear this story is trying to paint a picture that their lives are in danger and the whole system is out to get them. This whole thing was designed to enflame the public and win a pardon. When all is said and done it wouldn't surprise me if this whole thing is a setup or a simple fight that had nothing to do with his BP status.

Dude has lost ANY credibility with me with this story.

[MSGT]

If either of these agents die in prison, two republican congressmen, Culberson and Roerbacker and going to push for impeachment against Bush.
Someone should tell the congressmen that a judge, jury and prosecutor put them in jail, not Bush.

[DesertFox]

Why Bush? Bush didn't try the case.

[Antigone]

Why Bush? Bush didn't try the case.

Maybe because Bush was the one that appointed Sutton? :confused: (shrugs) :question:

[Lubbock]

Impeachment against BUSH?!?

That is utterly insane.

It seems to me that otherwise rational human beings have completely lost their minds over this case.

And I agree with MSGT. My bullshit meter is ticking right into the red by now, especially after learning that one agent requested to be in segregated population, and the one who "was beaten senseless until blood wasa coming out of his ears and he wasn't given medial treatment for forty eight hours" specifically requested General Population.

I smell set up.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Maybe we should start a forum dedicated to Ramos and Compean.

Wouldn't this perfectly qualify as a Media Circus Event? Perhaps those threads belong there.

[Patriot Heart]

Sadly Homes, this has gone far beyond a Media Circus, it is something more sinister..........listen to Glenn Beck if you get the chance today....he talked to Congressman Culberson today about this link.....
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54142

Of course it is a WND link, so many will poo poo it....

[Patriot Heart]

Also, tonight on Glenn's TV show on Headline News (The only time I watch that channel) he will talk to someone who has evidence that the drug smuggler's Mommy "knew" someone in Homeland Insecurity, and that she could get them to "fix" it........

[Rhino]

It's real easy to find out if WND lied. Call Congressman Culbertson's office and ask him if there's an investigation as to who lied at DHS?

I did. The story is true.That story apparently is, but it's a different story from what I was talking about.

[Rhino]

Report: Agents in Border Shooting of Mexican Drug Runner Lied About Incident

Thursday, February 08, 2007

EL PASO, Texas — A federal report released Wednesday on the shooting of a suspected drug smuggler by Border Patrol agents concurs with prosecutors that the men failed to report the shooting, destroyed evidence and lied to investigators.

Some members of Congress have criticized the case against Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean, who were fired after their obstruction of justice convictions and have each been sentenced to more than a decade in federal prison.

Congressional critics, who say the men were doing their jobs when they injured Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila in 2005 near El Paso, had sought the release of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security report.

The report "has just emboldened our position because there is nothing in there that indicates these agents were not justified in shooting this individual," said Tara Setmayer, a spokeswoman for Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif. "This finally sheds some light on what these agents were thinking."

She pointed to a written statement by Compean in which she said reflects that he "clearly believed the drug smuggler had a weapon and feared for his life."

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., agreed Wednesday to allow Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., to hold a hearing on the case, as she requested.

"I strongly believe that the sentences in this case are too extreme, given the criminal nature of the defendant and his possession of large quantities of drugs," Feinstein said in a statement. "These men were given sentences that some individuals who are convicted of murder wouldn't receive.".....http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250890,00.html

Not much in the way of new information, but I tend to agree with the last paragraph. The sentence seems excessive. I hope they do have a hearing in Congress. Maybe we'd get more factual information that way. There's just too much heresay and innuendo so far.

[Lubbock]

Amen, Rhino. Amen and Amen!!!

This would be one of the few times that a Congressional Hearing might serve a purpose --other than for politicians to bloviate and posture.

Get the players under oath and make them tell the damned truth.

Maybe that way we could separate the wheat from the chaff.

God knows, there is enough chaff flying around --on both sides.

I'm at the point with this whole thing that I don't believe anything I hear --from either side.

[d'urville]

WND's marginally more credible that NBC News, but what isn't?

Too much misinformation on the whole case. I think the prosecutor is on a witch hunt and I think the BP agents shot at an unknown and tried to cover it up.


Well, yes, this proscecutor is to the two agents as Nifong is to the Duke lacrosse players.

It's on WND, but it looks like an authentic memo:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54134

Another discrepency, it states one of the agents spoke to a supervisor right after the shooting and filed a report.

[Lubbock]

And I heard today that BP Agents are not required to file a written report; they are to report verbally to a Supervisor and it's up to the Supervisor to file a written report.

Waaaaaaay too much chaff flying around.

[Rhino]

I only see the first page of the memo. Is the rest there somewhere?

[Rhino]

From the WND article, all it stresses is the importance of not filing a report for the injury to Compean's hand, not for the shooting. They admitted not filing a report on that because they thought it inconsequential.

I found this interesting:
The Customs and Border Patrol manual mentions that the penalty for failure to report the discharge of a firearm or use of a weapon as required by the applicable firearms policy is a written reprimand, or at most a five-day suspension for the first offense. The manual makes no mention of the possibility of criminal punishment for failure to report the discharge of a weapon.As I've said before, the punishment seems too severe.

[Patriot Heart]

Read this report, it will make you sick. Bush better act fast on this or it will only get worse. More ammunition for the Libs. Although in the heart of black hearts they don't give a damn, they will pretend they do and the unwashed masses will believe.
Border-agent investigator had tie to smuggler
<!-- end head --><!-- deck -->Played major role in Ramos-Compean case but name blacked out in report
<!-- end deck -->
<HR SIZE=1>Posted: February 9, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Jerome R. Corsi
<!-- end byline --><!--- copywrite only show on NON commentary pages as per joseph meeting 8/23/06 ------><!-- copyright -->© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com <!-- end copyright -->

<!-- intelliTXT --><!-- Kontera --><!-- begin bodytext -->According to official documents in WND's possession, a Department of Homeland Security agent played a major role in managing the drug smuggler and conducting the field investigation in the incident that landed Border Patrol officers Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean in federal prison for more than a decade. Yet, in the heavily redacted 77-page DHS report (http://www.wnd.com/redir/r.asp?http://www.dhs.gov/xoig/assets/OIG_foia_RamosCompean.pdf) submitted to Congress Wednesday there is no explicit discussion of the role DHS Special Agent Christopher Sanchez played in the case.
SNIP

The drug smuggler was released from the army hospital the same day and given to the protective custody of Sanchez, who also took with him the bullet fragment removed from Aldrete-Davila's thigh (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54171).
WND has learned Aldrete-Davila spent the night of March 16, 2005, at the home of Sanchez.
"Christopher Sanchez shows up again with the shell fragments from Aldrete-Davila's body," Ramirez pointed out to WND. "Sanchez was evidently Aldrete-Davila's handler and from the looks of it, he did a good job. Taking that bullet home broke the chain of evidence. From there on, what good would a report be even if it established the bullet was fired from Ramos' gun?" WND previously reported (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53976) that the weapons identifications ballistics analysis performed by the Texas Department of Public Safety on the bullet fragment held by Sanchez did not match the bullet to the weapons fired Feb. 17, 2005 by Ramos or Compean.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54166

[Rhino]

So? Sounds like standard procedure. He was here at the behest of the government, so a Department of Homeland Security agent seems a natural choice to sheperd him through the process. Am I missing something?

[Rhino]

WND previously reported that the weapons identifications ballistics analysis performed by the Texas Department of Public Safety on the bullet fragment held by Sanchez did not match the bullet to the weapons fired Feb. 17, 2005 by Ramos or Compean.Really?

On March 18, 2005, The Texas DPS Crime Laboratory informed the DHS OIG that the bullet recovered from Aldrete-Davila's leg had been fired from a .40 caliber Beretta pistol, serial number (redacted) which was assigned to Ramos. (Exhibits 43 - 45)http://www.wnd.com/redir/r.asp?http://www.dhs.gov/xoig/assets/OIG_foia_RamosCompean.pdf

Stuff like that is why I don't trust WND.

[Rhino]

By the way, that's a very interesting report too. It looks to coincide with what Sutton has been saying. Ramos and Compeaqn changed their stories several times, which might account for some of the conflicting news reports.