Our Government LIED!!!

[Little Bit Farm]

INVASION USA
<!-- end standing head --><!-- head -->Government admits lying about jailed border agents
<!-- end head --><!-- deck -->Inspector confronted on Capitol Hill, says promised 'proof' does not exist
<!-- end deck -->

<HR SIZE=1>Posted: February 6, 2007
8:06 p.m. Eastern



<!-- byline -->By Jerome R. Corsi
<!-- end byline --><!--- copywrite only show on NON commentary pages as per joseph meeting 8/23/06 ------><!-- copyright -->© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com <!-- end copyright -->
<!-- intelliTXT --><!-- Kontera --><!-- begin bodytext --><TABLE align=right><TBODY><TR><TD width=110></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>A Department of Homeland Security official admitted today the agency misled Congress when it contended it possessed investigative reports proving Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean confessed guilt and declared they "wanted to shoot some Mexicans" prior to the incident that led to their imprisonment.
The admission came during the testimony of DHS Inspector General Richard L. Skinner (http://www.dhs.gov/xabout/structure/biography_0112.shtm) before the Homeland Security Subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee, according to Michael Green, press secretary for Rep. John Culberson, R-Texas. Culberson was questioning Skinner about a meeting DHS officials had Sept. 26 with him and three other Republican congressman from Texas, Reps. Ted Poe, Michael McCaul and Kenny Marchant.

Story continued here:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54132


So the transcripts lied too..... It seems to me as if we have something rotten in Denmark. This is an egregious violation of everything our country purports to stand for!!! Two men, American Citizens, fathers and husbands, men appointed by the people of the United States of America to protect her borders, thrown in jail unlawfully, and one of them beaten, have been violated for what reason??? It's bad enough this has happened, but I have to ask myself why??? What motive is behind this travesty??? It is time to investigate, and imprison, and impeach(if necessary), those who are responsible for this utter and total miscarriage of justice!!!!!

Little Bit Farm:flame:

[Wolfcounsel]

Follow the stench of drug money, and you will meet the fine, upstanding public servant ringleaders of this scam.

[dPrasse]

Follow the stench of drug money, and you will meet the fine, upstanding public servant ringleaders of this scam.

Amen !

[Rhino]

So the transcripts lied too.....What transcripts? This isn't from the trial. It's from a statement somebody made to four Congressmen back in September. Whoever that was is in very deep hot water now, and rightly so.

[DeclinetoState]

<center>UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

</center> United States Attorney Johnny Sutton
Western District of Texas
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 17, 2007
CONTACT: SHANA JONES
PHONE: (210) 384-7452
FAX: (210) 384-7105
www.usdoj.gov/usao/txw (http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/txw)

<center>MYTH VS. REALITY--THE FACTS OF WHY THE GOVERNMENT PROSECUTED AGENTS COMPEAN AND RAMOS

</center> Myth: THE AGENTS WERE JUST DOING THEIR JOBS

Reality: Securing our nation’s borders can be a tough and dangerous job. Often, Border Patrol agents find themselves in difficult and dangerous situations. We give them guns and allow them to defend themselves. Border Patrol training allows for the use of deadly force when an agent reasonably fears imminent bodily injury or death. An agent is not permitted to shoot an unarmed suspect who is running away. There was no credible evidence that the agents were in a life-threatening situation or that Aldrete, the Mexican alien, had a weapon that would justify the use of deadly force. In fact, Border Patrol Agent Juarez, who was at the scene, testified at trial that he did not draw his pistol because he did not believe there was a threat. He also testified that Aldrete did not have a weapon and was almost to Mexico when Agent Compean began firing at him. In America, law enforcement officers do not get to shoot unarmed suspects who are running away, lie about it to their supervisors and file official reports that are false. That is a crime and prosecutors cannot look the other way.

Myth: THE GOVERNMENT LET A DRUG SMUGGLER GO FREE

Reality: My office would have much preferred to see Aldrete convicted and sent to prison for his crimes. We are in the business of putting guys like Aldrete behind bars. In fact, this office leads the nation in the number of drug smuggling cases we prosecute. Because the agents could not identify him, found no fingerprints, could not tie him to the van and did not apprehend him after shooting him, the case against Aldrete could not be proven.

Myth: THESE BORDER PATROL AGENTS SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED

Reality: The crimes committed by these agents rise to the level of felonies and are not mere administrative oversights. This was not a simple case of discharge of a firearm that was not reported. The truth of this case is that Agents Compean and Ramos shot 15 times at an unarmed man who was running away from them and who posed no threat. This office cannot ignore these agents’ crimes just because the person they shot turned out to be a drug smuggler. Our system of justice requires that a person be tried in a court of law before he is punished. We do not permit police officers to summarily punish those whom the officers think have committed crimes. A police officer cannot shoot at an unarmed suspect who does not pose an immediate serious threat to the life of the officer or a bystander. In order to maintain the rule of law, federal prosecutors cannot look the other way when law enforcement officers shoot unarmed suspects who are running away, then lie about it to their supervisors and file official reports that are false.
Aztlan.net (http://www.aztlan.net/myths_ramos_compean_case.htm)

I believe Aztlan.net is a pro-illegal immigration Website. In addition, if the DoJ's information is false, then everything quoted may be false is well.

[Rhino]

The entire text of that statement is printed in this thread:

http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showthread.php?t=43499 (post #40)

Plus, the issue of false information was also addressed in this thread:

http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showthread.php?t=43549 (starting with post #105)

Basically, the chance of them falsifying the statements is about as likely as our government planning and executing the 9/11 attacks.

[Wolfcounsel]

Anybody in the United States who is proud of Aztlan deserves to be booted out of here and sent down to Meheeco so he can kiss the asses of his masters.

[Little Bit Farm]

I think everyone should just go read WND's main news page today.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.html

As far as the transcripts: I misread the article. I apologise. The transcripts have not been released to either congress or the public.


Little Bit Farm

[Little Bit Farm]

IGNACIO'S STORY
Here's Ramos' version of what happened that day:
On Feb. 17, 2005, Compean was monitoring the south side of a levee road near the Rio Grande on the U.S.-Mexico border in Fabens when he spotted a suspicious van driving down the north end of the road. He called for backup.
Ramos headed to Fabens, where he thought he could intercept the van at one of only two roads leading in and out of the small town.
Another agent was already following the van -- with Aldrete-Davila at the wheel -- when Ramos arrived.
Ramos and the other agent followed the van through the center of town until it turned back toward the Rio Grande, which marks the border between Mexico and the United States. Aldrete-Davila, unable to outrun the agents, stopped his van on a levee, got out and started running. Compean was waiting for him on the other side of the levee.
"We both yelled out for him to stop, but he wouldn't stop, and he just kept running," Ramos said.
Aldrete-Davila made his way through a canal, and Ramos could hear Compean yelling for Aldrete-Davila to stop, he said.
"At some point during the time where I'm crossing the canal, I hear shots being fired," Ramos said. "Later, I see Compean on the ground, but I keep running after the smuggler."
Through the thick dust, Ramos watched as Aldrete-Davila turned toward him, pointing what appeared to be a gun.
"I shot," he said. "But I didn't think he was hit, because he kept running into the brush and then disappeared into it. Later, we all watched as he jumped into a van waiting for him. He seemed fine. It didn't look like he had been hit at all."
Seven other agents were on the scene by that time. Compean had already picked up his shell casings. Ramos did not, though he failed to report the shooting.
"The supervisors knew that shots were fired," Ramos said. "Since nobody was injured or hurt, we didn't file the report. That's the only thing I would've done different." The van later was found to have about 800 pounds of marijuana inside.



PUZZLING ARGUMENT
Ramos said his pursuit of Aldrete-Davila was nothing different from what he's done in the past 10 years as a Border Patrol agent.
"How are we supposed to follow the Border Patrol strategy of apprehending terrorists or drug smugglers if we are not supposed to pursue fleeing people?" he continued. "Everybody who's breaking the law flees from us. What are we supposed to do? Do they want us to catch them or not?"
Ramos also said that both supervisors who were at the scene knew shots had been fired but did not file reports.
"You need to tell a supervisor because you can't assume that a supervisor knows about it," Kanof countered. "You have to report any discharge of a firearm." Mary Stillinger, Ramos' attorney, and Maria Ramirez, Compean's attorney, said during the trial that every other Border Patrol agent at the scene also failed to report shots had been fired.

Read the rest, including the prosecutor's arguements here:
http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_4141562

[Little Bit Farm]

INVASION USA
<!-- end standing head --><!-- head -->Imprisoned border agent did report shooting
<!-- end head --><!-- deck -->DHS memo shows Compean spoke to supervisor immediately after incident
<!-- end deck -->
<HR SIZE=1>Posted: February 7, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern


<!-- byline -->By Jerome R. Corsi
<!-- end byline --><!--- copywrite only show on NON commentary pages as per joseph meeting 8/23/06 ------><!-- copyright -->© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

Read it here:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54133

Little Bit Farm<!-- end copyright -->

[dPrasse]

"How are we supposed to follow the Border Patrol strategy of apprehending terrorists or drug smugglers if we are not supposed to pursue fleeing people?" he continued. "Everybody who's breaking the law flees from us. What are we supposed to do? Do they want us to catch them or not?"

No , you are not to try to apprehend people ... you should just sit in your office and wait for the criminals to turn themselves in ...

just like the drunk driving PSA I've seen with the drunks going up to the officers and asking to be arrested for DUI ...

[Rhino]

Read the rest, including the prosecutor's arguements here:That's not what he and the other agents said at the trial. I wish they'd release the damn transcripts.

[Rhino]

Imprisoned border agent did report shootingAgain, not what he and the other agents said at the trial.

[DesertFox]

This looks like one of those legendary cases that never go away, ever, for any reason, NEVER, but just keeps coming back like a rap song to bedevil us into eternity and beyond.

[Rhino]

Lookin that way.

[EveningStar]

You should take anything coming from Corsi with a grain of salt. He just keeps posting the same thing over and over and just re-arranges the words.

[CountryGent]

This looks like one of those legendary cases that never go away, ever, for any reason, NEVER, but just keeps coming back like a rap song to bedevil us into eternity and beyond.

LOL! Yep......same drumbeat but with different drummers of course.....:D:D

I'm waiting for the normal whine of "It's Bush's fault"...........:rolleyes:

[Little Bit Farm]

How do you know for sure what was said at the trial??? Here is a letter from someone who does know what was said at the trial, the defendant's father-in-law:

December 25, 2006

Honorable Congressman Walter Jones
1105-C Corporate Dr.
Greenville, N. C. 27858-4211


Dear Congressman Jones,

My name is Joe Loya. I am the father- in- law of Border Patrol agent Ignacio ‘Nacho’ Ramos. He was sentenced on October 22nd 2006 to 11years and one day in federal prison for the wounding of and illegal, admitted drug smuggler from Mexico. His fellow agent, Jose Compean was sentenced to 12 years.

There are plenty of versions of what actually took place when two Border Patrol agents, Ramos and Jose Compean, tried to chase down a drug smuggler in Fabens, Texas, 29 miles east of El Paso. But, unless you were there; unless you were present for the twelve day trial; unless you paid $9,000.00 to read the 3000 pages of transcripts; unless you spoke with their fellow officers; unless you saw the affidavits from jurors who claimed that they were bullied into going along with the conviction, you cannot appreciate the enormity of this outrage. I have spent 20 months and hundreds of hours investigating this case because of the lies of the smuggler, the unethical prosecutos and 2 agents who were given proffer letters, or immunity, in exchange for their testimony against the two agents. Please read my account of what really happened that day and than please, do everything you can to persuade President Bush to issue an immediate pardon to these two fine agents.

What really happened? Basically, two Border Patrol agents, attempting to interrupt a cross-border drug smuggling operation, fired their weapons in self-defense at an admitted illegal alien, drug smuggler, Osbaldo Aldrete-Davila. Davila had brought his Ford custom window van across the Rio Grande and driven it five miles into the small town of Fabens which is across the border from San Ysidro, Mexico, the home of the smuggler. Job seeking illegals don’t come across illegally in their vehicles.

Electronic sensors had alerted agent Compean, who was patrolling the border when the van came across the river. Compean alerted the other border patrol agents through radio communications. Agent Compean could not pursue because he was on the opposited side of a canal when he spotted the van headed into Fabens. When the van got into town, it was spotted by an agent by the name of Oscar Juarez.

Continued here:

http://www.americanfreedomriders.com/JoeLoyaLetter.html


Little Bit Farm

[Rhino]

How do you know for sure what was said at the trial???That's the same boat we're all in, and why I'd really like to see the transcripts released.

Here is a letter from someone who does know what was said at the trial, the defendant's father:Sutton was there too, and he's far more likely to see drastic consequences if he misrepresents anything.

[Little Bit Farm]

Yes and has just as much reason to lie and manipulate as the agents themselves. Obviously SOMEBODY is lying in the DHS, and to Congress no less. My question is, if this case is so cut and dried, then why does ANYONE have to lie??? Obviously somebody wants these boys shut up, and I'd say permanantly, if the beating in jail is any indication. Why?

Little Bit Farm

[Rhino]

Yes and has just as much reason to lie and manipulate as the agents themselves.No. He's not subject to prison, unless he misrepresents the case, which is why it's highly unlikely that he did.

Obviously SOMEBODY is lying in the DHS, and to Congress no less.Apparently someone did, and they should pay for it. But it wasn't part of the trial, and has no effect on the outcome of it.

My question is, if this case is so cut and dried, then why does ANYONE have to lie???As for DHS, I have no idea. We don't have enough facts to judge that yet.

Obviously somebody wants these boys shut up, and I'd say permanantly, if the beating in jail is any indication. Why?You presume someone arranged the beating to shut them up. Why? First, there is no evidence of that whatsoever. Second, why shut them up? What is it that they could say that they haven't said already? I see no motive for such a claim.

Don't get me wrong, Little Bit. I'd be perfectly happy to see them vindicated and released, assuming they're really innocent. I'd also be perfectly happy to see someone punished for railroading them, if that were the case. But so far there is no evidence of that. The agents themselves testified to many of the acts they were convicted of.

[Little Bit Farm]

This doesn't sound like just re-arranging the words to me:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54110

Most in depth article I've read about the beating.

Little Bit Farm

[Little Bit Farm]

Once again Rhino, you seem to have special knowledge beyond anything I've seen in print. How do you know exactly what they testified to?

Little Bit Farm

[Rhino]

I posted the link above in post #6.

[Republican_Legion]

Once again Rhino, you seem to have special knowledge beyond anything I've seen in print. How do you know exactly what they testified to?

Little Bit Farm

Careful there. You might disappear like 'RED' did.

[CountryGent]

Careful there. You might disappear like 'RED' did.

Poke,poke............LOL!

[Rhino]

Red hasn't been banned, to my knowledge, so try to curb the wacko conspiracy theories.

[Republican_Legion]

Red hasn't been banned, to my knowledge, so try to curb the wacko conspiracy theories.

RED was removed from the memberlist and while he has been gone his member status changed twice from 'Registered User' to 'Member'.

I'll stick to my conspiracys theorys ok.

[CountryGent]

Red hasn't been banned, to my knowledge, so try to curb the wacko conspiracy theories.

That "Cut and Run" disease is spreading fast it seems.....:evilgrin:

[Republican_Legion]

That "Cut and Run" disease is spreading fast it seems.....:evilgrin:



Care to explain 'Cut and Run' ?

[Rhino]

RED was removed from the memberlist and while he has been gone his member status changed twice from 'Registered User' to 'Member'.

I'll stick to my conspiracys theorys ok.Member status is changed automatically by the software based on how many posts you have, but hey, feel free to be wacko if you want. Just don't expect anybody to lend credence to it. And we have a forum for conspiracy theories, so post them there. We always find them good for a laugh or two.

And he's still a member.

http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/member.php?u=3355

[CountryGent]

Care to explain 'Cut and Run' ?

The phrase itself is self explanatory:thumb:

[Republican_Legion]

Member status is changed automatically by the software based on how many posts you have.

Your not even open to the possiblity of it being a glitch ?

Well if you look at that list you will see inactive users with 0 posts remain on there but why would it remove someone with 200+ posts if they were not banned ?

[Rhino]

Your not even open to the possiblity of it being a glitch ?Not the member status. The software controls that. All we can do is manually override it, but why would anyone do that just to make him "Member"?

Well if you look at that list you will see inactive users with 0 posts remain on there but why would it remove someone with 200+ posts if they were not banned ?That could be a glitch. But as you can see from his profile, he isn't banned. I have no idea why he isn't in the list. I find that strange too. But then again, a glitch is hardly a conspiracy, is it?

[Republican_Legion]

The phrase itself is self explanatory:thumb:



A 'cut and run' on what ? and who has 'cut and run' ?

[Rhino]

I think he's suggesting that RED cut and ran.

[Rhino]

It's only been a week since he last logged in though. Maybe he's on vacation. I'd sure like to be, as long as it's somewhere warm.

[CountryGent]

As soon as our temps here get above global warming freezing I'm going fishing...:thumb:

[Little Bit Farm]

I posted the link above in post #6.

I read the link. However, that link did not post what they actually said. There was nothing in quotes as to what they said or didn't say.

Little Bit Farm

[Rhino]

I read the link. However, that link did not post what they actually said. There was nothing in quotes as to what they said or didn't say.Actual quotes would be the transcripts, which you and I both would like to see released. You just asked where I got the information, and I was just telling you where.

[Little Bit Farm]

That is what I mean. We need corobborating evidence, instead of he said, she said. All I am saying, is that you can't say what they said in their testimony, until we have that evidence, other than what is said by the parties involved. The article I posted above is what the agent himself says about the incident. Until which time we have evidence(ie. quoted transcript material) to the contrary, then we must accept his story, as his story. Here's another question, why is DHS sitting on the transcripts in the first place???

Little Bit Farm

[Rhino]

Supposedly it's a legal requirement. Might be some quirk of the federal system.

I do accept the agent's story as his story. I also accept Sutton's as his story. Plus, with the vetting Sutton would have to go through to release what he did, his story is far more likely to be accurate.

[Lubbock]

I heard on the raido today while I was out running around that the transcript is ready EXCEPT for the Agent's testimony.

The Agent's testimony has been left out of the transcript.

Now how is that a transcript?

I DO NOT believe that.

Take it from someone who has handled more than her share of trial and deposition transcripts, no Court Reporter prepares a transcript and leaves anything out.

I can't even conceive of a transcript with testimony left out.

Something stinks about that.

[DesertFox]

Well, Bush and his fellow Skull & Bones conspirators need time to get their lies together, iron out all the inconsistencies and shut up anyone who knows better. Given all these important considerations, we should see a full transcript along about, oh, 2525...if man is still alive, if woman can survive.

[Little Bit Farm]

I can't even conceive of a transcript with testimony left out.

Something stinks about that.

Yep! Something is definitely rotten in Denmark.

Little Bit Farm