Serious Question; Opinions Wanted

[Venus de Smilo]

What do all of you think the real reason is why 'pubs are SO politically weak? I want to know what is the essential root cause of it, something beyond the usual thoughts that it's fear of the media. On the rare occasions that conservatives stand up and get tough, they at least get respect from the media, but they refuse to capitalize on this phenomenon, so what is the REAL reason? I would really like to know what true conservatives who follow politics like hard-core junkies think the answer to this is.

Thanks.

[Wolfcounsel]

The jellyfish "Republicans" think they are going to win the minority(imbecile liberal) vote if they pander to the garbage like the Democrats do. It is about votes now. It has stopped being about America with both parties.

[Venus de Smilo]

The jellyfish "Republicans" think they are going to win the minority(imbecile liberal) vote if they pander to the garbage like the Democrats do. It is about votes now. It has stopped being about America with both parties.

Okay, fair enough. But if it's all about votes, then why do they not advance the agenda they were elected to effect? Why wimp out then? If they got the majority of votes, they have control, but then they don't exercise it. They just stick their heads in the sand and fail to fight. Why? What is the purpose? Many of them do have solid conservative principles that I think they firmly believe in, but they just will NOT fight. Why?

[Lubbock]

I think you'd have to go back close to forty years to start finding the root cause.

No doubt in my mind that PC has played a huge part in the Pussification of America --and that's what it is. The Republicans have become just as big a-Pussies as the Libs. There ain't a dimes worth of difference between the two, in you couldn't put together a solid set of danglies if you gathered every so-called Republican Conservative inside or outside the Beltway.

That's not an answer to your question, Venus. Just more bitching from the hinterland.

[Wolfcounsel]

"But if it's all about votes, then why do they not advance the agenda they were elected to effect? Why wimp out then? If they got the majority of votes, they have control, but then they don't exercise it." --Venus de Smilo

Yep. As Lubbock said, the Republicans as a whole have become pussified. They stuck their asses out to please the garbage, and they got stomped on.

[The_Elucidator]

What do all of you think the real reason is why 'pubs are SO politically weak? I want to know what is the essential root cause of it, something beyond the usual thoughts that it's fear of the media. On the rare occasions that conservatives stand up and get tough, they at least get respect from the media, but they refuse to capitalize on this phenomenon, so what is the REAL reason? I would really like to know what true conservatives who follow politics like hard-core junkies think the answer to this is.

Thanks.

Dear - I am glad you asked that question!

You are gonna hear crap about RINO's and trying to please the media and globalist theory's, new world order, blah, blah, blah...

If you want my 2 pennies about this issue here goes. I don't think it's as mind numbing as some will make it out to be. The fact of the matter is that for so long the 'Rats had been in the majority. They (the 'Rats) had learned how to become nasty. When they were overtaken by the ass nasty communist party they became even nastier. Now when the 'Pubs wrestled control away from the 'Rats in '94 that made the 'Rats even one step nastier!

The 'Pubs were a AA baseball pitcher with great stuff that just got promoted to the majors and it showed! They tried to please everyone in the clubhouse; when they got to the mound they got nervous, highly erratic and ultimately ended up losing the game. Why, because they lacked the confidence of the old wily vet that has been pitching there for years (the 'Rats.)

The 'Rats for all their faults do take care of their welfare minded, simple minded baby killin' conspiracy theory based constituents who have their hand out at every turn. They take care of their base!

Meanwhile back at the GOP HQ they are still scratching their heads and other body parts trying to figure out ways to increase their voting base when all they have to do is energize the voting base that gave them '94 - '06 and have completely ignored since.

Morons! :flame:

[BEST45CAL]

Because the pubz don't stand up for themselves, they're afraid to speak their minds. It's basic schoolyard mentality going on here between the media/libz and the pubz. If you don't fight back, you are going to be picked on until you get bigger and stronger. So until that magic day arrives, the pubz will continue to get beat down.

Because the pubz don't fight back, the libz think that what they're doing is right.

[DoctorDoom]

IMO, the Pubs suffer from several major failings:

• They want to be liked rather than feared and respected. This causes them to be nice at the expense of being right. They compromise with evil because of their delusion that sucking up to the RATs will cause the RATs and the DBM to hate them less. And they're either too blind or too stupid to realize that it doesn't work.

• There is no real unity in the GOP. They have tolerated notorious RINOs for years. If the Rats had that level of DINOs, they'd have bitchslapped them into line or isolated them into irrelevance.

• The RATs circle the wagons around their kind whenever a problem or a scandal arises, and they go into attack mode. The Pubs turn on their wounded comrades like jackals, q.v., Newt, DeLay and Foley.

• The RATs stand 100% behind their RAT presidents no matter what happens. Their support of Klinton in his many scandals was uniform. The Pub abandonment of and hostility towards Bush, his staff and and his administration are shameless. Reno and her gang literally got away with murder at Waco and Ruby Ridge. Ashcroft was driven out and Gonzales is being told to resign because of firing 8 US attorneys (as opposed to Clinton's 93).

Who remembers this shameless example of jack-booted thuggery from April 22, 2000?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/DocDoom777/Politics/Elian600.jpg

If this had happened on April 22, 2001, what would have been the result?

Repeating the facts of life for the GOP:

• You cannot be nice to RATs;
• You cannot compromise with RATs;
• The RATs will never love you;
• The RATs will never like you;
• The RATs cannot be trusted;
• The RATs define bipartisan as you agreeing with them;
• The MSM hate you and everything you represent;
• The MSM will never give you fair, objective coverage;
• The MSM will lie about you at every opportunity;
• The MSM are the unpaid RAT propaganda ministry;
• The RATs and the MSM are traitors who will sell out America to destroy you;
• Your only option with RATs and the MSM is to deal with them as with rabid animals;
• America wants conservative leaders, not RAT Lites;
• If you're RINOs, you're worse than RATs;
• If you're moderates, go slit your throats and put yourselves out of our misery;
• If you abandon your supporters, don't expect them to support you;
• If you lie to your constituencies, you'll be looking for a job when your term is up;
• You'll have the next 18 months of RATs showing their true nature; if you don't exploit it, screw you.

[Lazarus]

Well, Im gonna take the opposite tack from Elucidator... Oh I dont deny that most of what he says is correct in a lot of ways... But indeed I subscribe to the RINO theory...

In truth there are two factions in the Rebublican party - just as there are two factions among the Dems... Republican does not automatically equate to Conservative... Reagan was a phenomenon - He took the banner of Conservatism, the doctrines of William F Buckley, and stepped up front and courageously told America to "Follow Me!"

Before that happened, the Country Club Republicans had held control of the party - Not a hair's difference between these CC Pubs and Moderate Democrats - Just rival, yet identical, gangs fighting for control of the same turf... These CC Pubs were visciously opposed to Reagan and everything he stood for - and tried desperately to keep him from being elected...

Reagan's doctrine gave the power of government back to the people, and encouraged us to step up and take part in our government - A dangerous doctrine for CC Pubs who liked the status quo of keeping us in the dark and feeding us shit...

But the people were energized by Reagan, and the CC Pubs could only sit back and wait for the fire to burn low... Sadly, Reagan, the man, was the driving force behind that movement, and true to their plan, once Reagan was out of the picture, the Conservative movement began to drift with no direction... We knew what we believed in, but we couldnt find the leadership we needed to carry the banner...

CC Pubs, like the Dems, require no leadership for the people - They require the people to just go about their daily lives, pay their taxes, fight the wars they start, and dutifully vote when told to...

This is what has happened to the Republican party... The RINOs and CC Pubs have peeked out of their holes, seen that Ronaldus Magnus had died and was thoroughly buried, and now the roaches have crawled out to reclaim their previous empire...

This is why Fred Thompson is such a threat - not to just a the Dems, but also the CC Pubs... He may be the new standard bearer for Conservatism, with the leadership we have been craving... If he is, The CC Pubs will have to crawl back into their holes and wait till this "inconvenient anomoly" goes away too...

[Naturalized-Texan]

Part of the answer lies in my following response to The_Elucidator in another thread:

"All one has to do to understand why 'we have established successful men and women who aren't willing to do the very same thing for the country by running for political office' is to read Tom DeLay's book, No Retreat, No Surrender, as I just have, to see how a successful man and a tremendously successful conservative leader like DeLay has suffered from the the left-wing politics of personal destruction. The trumped-up charges made against Tom DeLay in the past 8 or 9 years have cost him millions of dollars in lawyers' fees and imposed tremendous personal hardships on his family, and it isn't over yet."

If Fred Thompson decides not to run for president, the left-wing politics of personal destruction could well be the reason.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

A: It's a two-parter - 1) Money. 2)Power.

That's what it's all about.


Follow the money, and you'll see why so-called "conservatives" or "Republicans" cave once they are in office. Votes are the reason they run on a conservative ticket, money and power are the reasons they abandon it once office is gained/retained. I DO believe many enter politics for noble reasons, they really WANT to make things better. But power corrupts, and absolute power (which certainly it does when it comes to Congress, as more often than not the incumbent retains their seat) corrupts absolutely. To be effective in office, one MUST be a deal-maker, it's impossible to avoid. Once ONE compromise is made, they are hooked.

So when you add the trail of money to the corruption of power, you have your answer.

[Naturalized-Texan]

Homes: The left had to destroy Tom DeLay because he refused to compromise with them, he refused to "go along to get along." That's why I think that leftist politics of personal destruction is a significant factor in causing Republicans to cave.

[Maggie_T]

And you have a point, N-T. But in this case, we cannot blame only the left. And you're getting this from a person who believes the left is at the root of all evil.

Venus, I do not have the answer to your $million question, but I think I know why the GOP is in such lamentable situation. It's because our elected officials have become concerned with only ONE thing: keeping their butts firmly velcroed to their seat in CONgress. And they have succeeded thanks to two different groups of Republicans:

Republican check-writers, who are concerned only with their own interests (e.i. illegal immigration and businesses), AND who have become too cosy in their elitist wine-and-cheese roles (which they share with the wine-and-cheese liberal counterparts). They themselves have become bland and corrupt from living in the rarefied ambience of gated communities and country clubs, where - I'm sure - everything is a comfortable shade of gray, where moral absolutes are considered unsophisticated.

Republican voters - that's you and me, dears - who, for way too long, have perpetuated our effete elected officials in power by allowing them to scare us into voting "for the less of two evils" (them). Until we've have reached the present situation in which there is practically no difference between the two evils.

I truly believe that we are as much to blame as anyone else. Instead of holding our elected officials accountable, we have let them get away with becoming more and more liberal, more and more pusillanimous, weaker and weaker. We let them become the "less of two evils". "Well, a Republican - even the most liberal - is always better than a democrat." THAT is what has led the GOP to this present lamentable state.

Sometime, somewhere, someone must have said "Look, just tell them that, no matter what you do, you'll always be better than the alternative. Make sure you make them so scared of the altnernative that they'll vote for you no matter what you do. Then, we can compromise with our more liberal check-writing constituency on taxes/illegal immigration/same-sex marriage/you-name-it." Or words to that effect.

If we had reminded our elected officials from the very beginning that they are our servants, not the other way around, things might be different now. Instead, we soiled our underwear every time they pointed at the next "evil alternative." And now, both alternatives are almost one and the same.

This does not answer you question, Venus, I know. But maybe it can explain why Republicans have lately completely ignored their constituency, and focused on keeping themselves in power instead. If abandoning conservative principles is what will keep them where they are, so be it, and screw the voters. Just make sure you keep them scared of letting go of your apron strings. That will do the trick.

Perhaps that explains why Republicans bend over backwards to please democrats and their minions in the drive-by media. They have insulted, exasperated, neglected grassroot Republicans(their constituency) and thus, lost a great deal of their support (they lost mine), and now, to retain power, they are left depending on the tolerance of the opposition. They abandoned the sure thing for the ephimeral, the mirage called "bi-partisanship."

It's like the old story of the man who left a faithful wife for his flighty flamboyant lover. Now his lover treats him like shit, but it's the only thing he's got left, so he must demean himself to keep at least that.

Just my 2 cents. And I probably overcharged you all. :blush:

[DesertFox]

No leadership. If the Right had a leader, people would follow him/her.

[Venus de Smilo]

Wow. These are all very impressive, thoughtful responses, each in its own way. I thank you all for engaging my question.

More later.

[thoughtomator]

My best guess is that it's all about the bribery. Once in office the bribers (mostly lobbyists, but not exclusively) take over. Between the easily corrupted and the blackmailable, they get what they want done, and our concerns get pushed off the table.

[Rhino]

In a nutshell, without a lot of details, they have put politics over principles. Most rank and file citizens support a political affiliation based on principles, but the party elite have become so tied up in political games that principles have become the forgotten stepchild. They have fallen into the trap of trying to pander to wavering public opinion, which is itself an impossibility, in an effort to garner votes. But in abandoning the basic principles of conservatism, they have alienated their own base and have as a result actually lost the votes that they are attempting to garner. They need to recognize that principles are important, and the votes they need from the rank and file are based on those principles. To paraphrase an old saying, if you don't stand for something, you won't stand at all.

[DesertFox]

And it pisses me off royally, the way Republican politicos have run from what should be their principles. The conservative base is actually mainstream America, while the liberal base is far-Left lunacy.

One can only conclude that while lib politicians have nutcase principles, GOPers generally have none at all and conservatives are hardly represented in Washington.

[Lazarus]

And it pisses me off royally, the way Republican politicos have run from what should be their principles. The conservative base is actually mainstream America, while the liberal base is far-Left lunacy.

One can only conclude that while lib politicians have nutcase principles, GOPers generally have none at all and conservatives are hardly represented in Washington.This is what happens when we dont have a Reagan in the pilot's seat... Its sad to think that we apparently have to have a strong arm in the Whitehouse to keep the weak-minded underlings reminded of their mission...

Im hoping Fred Thompson will be the new strong arm to lead these unfocused morons back on the conservative path - They seem to become distracted so easily...

[DesertFox]

Sadly, that's precisely what happens without leadership.

[Dowple]

The power people in politics, especially those holding office, these days are mostly baby boomers or the generation immediately thereafter. These people are still "flower children" at heart. That's why they emphasize free market libertarianism, instead of the conservative cultural and institutional traditions of the United States. Basically, ALL of them think America was horribly racist, sexist, and imperialist before they were born in the 1940s or 1950s. They were brainwashed in public schools to believe this. They have no real knowledge and don't want any real knowledge of the earlier America they believe must be apologized for. That's why you got "compassionate conservatism" that could live with, and then even endorse, affirmative action, open borders, diversity quotas, no smoking ordinances, restrictions on public displays of Christianity (all, as we see in another thread, while inviting terror condoning imams to open the Texas Senate, for example), and Wilsonian nation-building in place of war fighting.

[DesertFox]

The power people in politics, especially those holding office, these days are mostly baby boomers or the generation immediately thereafter. ... Basically, ALL of them think America was horribly racist, sexist, and imperialist before they were born in the 1940s or 1950s. They were brainwashed in public schools to believe this.Wrong. The power people in politics usually go to exclusive private schools. Of those who did go to public schools, such as myself, not a one was brainwashed; public schools in the Fifties and early Sixties were actually quite good.

Fact is that the Soviets invaded us good during the Cold War, going way back to the Thirties. I recommend Whittaker Chambers' Witness as a first rate chronicle of the period. It was said as early as the Forties that in America the working class was Democrat, the professionals and middle class were Republican and the rich were Communist.

The infection filtered into society from those exclusive private schools, not the public schools. Dave Horowitz' dad was a Stalinist Commie who taught public school his whole career. Horowitz said his dad never once let his politics enter his classroom -- that's about the only good thing Horowitz says about his dad, and his dad's generation was the one that taught the people you're talking about who went to public schools in the Fifties and Sixties.

[Dowple]

Wrong. The power people in politics usually go to exclusive private schools. Of those who did go to public schools, such as myself, not a one was brainwashed; public schools in the Fifties and early Sixties were actually quite good.


OK, no doubt you're right about the germ of the infection coming mainly from private schools. But don't let public schools off the hook, either. I went grades 1-12 from 1961 to 1973. In high school, a slew of younger teachers were just coming in. The American history teacher (1971-72) helped organize her little female charges into a bra burning brigade--literally--who marched out the school to have their very first protest. The "civics" teacher (1972) made her class all about her outside volunteer work--in the McGovern campaign. The American lit teacher (1971-72) went all goo-goo over the transfer student who had actually had a class in witchcraft in his old school; so inspired, she tried to introduce one in ours. I could go on and on and on. By the early 70s, in my very conservative suburban Texas school district, the rot had already spread pretty thoroughly.

[MrSanity]

I'll go with Tom DeLay's answer: the politics of personal destruction stop honest men from bidding into the political arena. Anyone can be a Republican, but it takes a spine to be a real conservative. Congress is polluted with character assassins who will do everything beyond their power to take you out to the trash. Ask Tom DeLay. He spent millions of dollars proving his innocence throughout his career, and it never sealed the wounds of his damaged reputation.

[Rhino]

Yep. That's the main reason why I've never run for office, beyond local stuff, and I have been asked to.

[Timberwolf]

What do all of you think the real reason is why 'pubs are SO politically weak? I want to know what is the essential root cause of it, something beyond the usual thoughts that it's fear of the media. On the rare occasions that conservatives stand up and get tough, they at least get respect from the media, but they refuse to capitalize on this phenomenon, so what is the REAL reason? I would really like to know what true conservatives who follow politics like hard-core junkies think the answer to this is.

Thanks.
Money is power. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Within the Beltway, one does the "Potomac Two-Step" or one sits in the back of the bus...the "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" mentality.

In DC, there is NO leadership within the Republican Party as the Party has been infiltrated by socialists who are only concerned with one thing...getting re-elected and by doing so, retaining their power.

What they don't realize is, back in '94, it was their CONSERVATIVE base, not the media, who put them into power...and it was their CONSERVATIVE base, not the media, who removed them from power (because they betrayed our trust) in '06. The VAST majority of Americans ARE conservative. They (we) do not enjoy the damage being done to our country by the soulless liberals and desperately want LEADERSHIP from the Republicans, but all the Republican "leadership" will give us is liberal-lite candidates.

Well, we've put our foot down and are saying, "No more. You give us conservative candidates or you can pound sand."

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Money is power. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Within the Beltway, one does the "Potomac Two-Step" or one sits in the back of the bus...the "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" mentality.

In DC, there is NO leadership within the Republican Party as the Party has been infiltrated by socialists who are only concerned with one thing...getting re-elected and by doing so, retaining their power.

What they don't realize is, back in '94, it was their CONSERVATIVE base, not the media, who put them into power...and it was their CONSERVATIVE base, not the media, who removed them from power (because they betrayed our trust) in '06. The VAST majority of Americans ARE conservative. They (we) do not enjoy the damage being done to our country by the soulless liberals and desperately want LEADERSHIP from the Republicans, but all the Republican "leadership" will give us is liberal-lite candidates.

Well, we've put our foot down and are saying, "No more. You give us conservative candidates or you can pound sand."


:yeahthat: Ditto!


You been readin' my mind again, stealin' from my keyboard, Timber? :nono:

:smirky:

[omegatrump]

We don't really have an issue about Conservative vs Liberal. Both parties are being pimped by the same money and power brokers.

The big lie is that there is a degree of conservatism in the Republican party. It doesn't exist there except in some peoples imagination. Its really just a one party system. The theatrics are designed to create an illusion and since America is mesmerized by one pathetic character after another its easy for this conglomerate to produce the charade.

[omegatrump]

The power people in politics, especially those holding office, these days are mostly baby boomers or the generation immediately thereafter. These people are still "flower children" at heart. That's why they emphasize free market libertarianism, instead of the conservative cultural and institutional traditions of the United States. Basically, ALL of them think America was horribly racist, sexist, and imperialist before they were born in the 1940s or 1950s. They were brainwashed in public schools to believe this. They have no real knowledge and don't want any real knowledge of the earlier America they believe must be apologized for. That's why you got "compassionate conservatism" that could live with, and then even endorse, affirmative action, open borders, diversity quotas, no smoking ordinances, restrictions on public displays of Christianity (all, as we see in another thread, while inviting terror condoning imams to open the Texas Senate, for example), and Wilsonian nation-building in place of war fighting.

Absolutely, we are living the result of the 60's right now. The flower child mentality has taken it's place on the platform. Bill Clinton, (Georges other brother) used to demonstrate for his Socialist views by setting in a tree for days and craping on the ground under the tree, now he just takes every opportunity to crap on America. He was a flower child of sorts, but he's a democrat you say. Yea, he's part of the one party system. So is his brother George. The Socialist mentality made huge strides against the Constitution in the 60's through our Colleges, then into the High schools, now in our Grammar schools. George is competing with Bill in all manners of liberalism.

[Naturalized-Texan]

We don't really have an issue about Conservative vs Liberal. Both parties are being pimped by the same money and power brokers.

The big lie is that there is a degree of conservatism in the Republican party. It doesn't exist there except in some peoples imagination. Its really just a one party system. The theatrics are designed to create an illusion and since America is mesmerized by one pathetic character after another its easy for this conglomerate to produce the charade.
:tinhat: :tinhat:

[Timberwolf]

You been readin' my mind again, stealin' from my keyboard, Timber? :nono:

:smirky:
Great minds, Homey....great minds. :thumb: