Peggy Noonan: President Bush has torn the conservative coalition asunder

[Dowple]

What political conservatives and on-the-ground Republicans must understand at this point is that they are not breaking with the White House on immigration. They are not resisting, fighting and thereby setting down a historical marker--"At this point the break became final." That's not what's happening. What conservatives and Republicans must recognize is that the White House has broken with them. What President Bush is doing, and has been doing for some time, is sundering a great political coalition. This is sad, and it holds implications not only for one political party but for the American future. The White House doesn't need its traditional supporters anymore, because its problems are way beyond being solved by the base. And the people in the administration don't even much like the base. Desperate straits have left them liberated, and they are acting out their disdain. Leading Democrats often think their base is slightly mad but at least their heart is in the right place. This White House thinks its base is stupid and that its heart is in the wrong place. . .
They are trying to lay down markers for history. Having lost the support of most of the country, they are looking to another horizon. The story they would like written in the future is this: Faced with the gathering forces of ethnocentric darkness, a hardy and heroic crew stood firm and held high a candle in the wind. It will make a good chapter. Would that it were true! . . .
What I came in time to believe is that the great shortcoming of this White House, the great thing it is missing, is simple wisdom. Just wisdom--a sense that they did not invent history, that this moment is not all there is, that man has lived a long time and there are things that are true of him, that maturity is not the same thing as cowardice, that personal loyalty is not a good enough reason to put anyone in charge of anything, that the way it works in politics is a friend becomes a loyalist becomes a hack, and actually at this point in history we don't need hacks.

Link (http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110010148&mod=RSS_Opinion_Journal&ojrss=frontpage)

[PaulRevere]

Bush should be remembered as the Trojan virus president: He appeared to be a useful and valuable program (president), but once installed, it destroyed the system (Republican party), leaving users no other choice but to install a completely new operating system (government).

[BEST45CAL]

Now conservatives and Republicans are going to have to win back their party. They are going to have to break from those who have already broken from them. This will require courage, serious thinking and an ability to do what psychologists used to call letting go. This will be painful, but it's time. It's more than time. Ha! She assumes that conservatives follow blindly. Who does she think she's talking to? She forgot that we eat our own. Silly out-of-touch b****. Like we need HER to tell US what to think. A$$hole.

[omegatrump]

What Bush is doing, is what he has wanted to do from the beginning. He is doing what his compassionate conservatism dictates. He is a Democrat, trying to cover his sin, with a cloke of Republicanism. That is all he's ever been.

I have truly struggled with the prospects at times as to whether he was truly evil, or was he just stupid.

My conclusion is. II Thesolanians chapter 2:10,11,12. This is where America is going. Mr Bush is just a little piece of the picture. Far smaller than he thinks he is. He is just a little tiny reseptacle for deception. Nothing more nothing less.

[Suzie]

Ha! She assumes that conservatives follow blindly. Who does she think she's talking to? She forgot that we eat our own. Silly out-of-touch b****. Like we need HER to tell US what to think. A$$hole.

That's what all of those book selling drones do. They hope you do, because they know what buttons to push with the people willing to put money in their pockets. They are hoping you just become a cheerleader for what they are trying to sell, and they are trying to sell you what to think. And the more people who lockstep the more money they make. They don't care if it advances or destroys anything, as long as it makes them money.

Does she have a book coming out soon? Usually something like this precedes a book hitting the shelves soon.

[Dowple]

There is no difference between the George W. Bush of 2000 and 2004 and the George Bush of today EXCEPT that back then he was a winner. Now, he's a loser. Bush has peddled the very same crap since the very beginning. He was already the most pro mexican president in American history the very first day he came into office. Yet Noonan and the Republican Party apparatchiks were happy to support him THEN. The biggest error in her column is this: conservatives cut their losses with George W. Bush a long time ago. Now, here comes Peggy trying to lead the parade after she's been sitting in the caboose for the past seven years. Anything to hold onto power and influence, especially after being so wrong for so long.

[Lazarus]

Peggy Noonan served on the staff of the 2nd greatest president this country has ever seen - Ronald Reagan... She is and has always been a hard core Reagan Conservative... And she is one of the great conservative minds of our times... I dont understand the reaction Im seeing from some of you here... She is saying nothing that many if not most of us have been saying here since Bush put his knife in our collective back... I agree with her observations...

[Dowple]

Lazarus, I do not disagree with her statements either. I just think she is late in making them. In fact, I see a lot of people coming late to this party. Another one is Rush Limbaugh. Where was he on this issue and the duplicity of Bush for the past 7 years? He says he was carrying Bush's water. When Bush this past week attacked Limbaugh and all his erstwhile hardcore THEN they decided to join the people who have had their eyes wide open for years. Granted, better late than never. But there is NO WAY I want Noonan or Limbaugh elbowing their way to the head of the opposition, when their epiphany, really, has only occurred in the past month or so. Join us, fine. Support us, fine. Lead us? No. They've got some learning to do first.

[Suzie]

Lazarus, I do not disagree with her statements either. I just think she is late in making them. In fact, I see a lot of people coming late to this party. Another one is Rush Limbaugh. Where was he on this issue and the duplicity of Bush for the past 7 years? He says he was carrying Bush's water. When Bush this past week attacked Limbaugh and all his erstwhile hardcore THEN they decided to join the people who have had their eyes wide open for years. Granted, better late than never. But there is NO WAY I want Noonan or Limbaugh elbowing their way to the head of the opposition, when their epiphany, really, has only occurred in the past month or so. Join us, fine. Support us, fine. Lead us? No. They've got some learning to do first.

It wasn't going to make them money in the beginning. They test the waters and if they have shifted they have to put out what's going to sell with their base. I agree with you, I think all of these people try and ride the dollar whatever way it takes them, like the Democrats do with their beloved "polls".

[Lazarus]

Lazarus, I do not disagree with her statements either. I just think she is late in making them. In fact, I see a lot of people coming late to this party. Another one is Rush Limbaugh. Where was he on this issue and the duplicity of Bush for the past 7 years? He says he was carrying Bush's water. When Bush this past week attacked Limbaugh and all his erstwhile hardcore THEN they decided to join the people who have had their eyes wide open for years. Granted, better late than never. But there is NO WAY I want Noonan or Limbaugh elbowing their way to the head of the opposition, when their epiphany, really, has only occurred in the past month or so. Join us, fine. Support us, fine. Lead us? No. They've got some learning to do first.I dont know what Limbaugh you've been listening to, but the one I listen to everyday has been on Bush's back about this immigration betrayal for as long as anyone here has been...

One wonders why you dont include Fred Thompson in your blacklist - He remained quiet for years and has only now resurfaced into the public eye with the upcoming presidential elections - he's now the most popular candidate on this board, but I dont recall him leading the mob to string Bush up... Yet somehow Peggy Noonan must sit in the stocks to redeem herself because she hasnt been vocal enough for you...

I dont get it...:unsmile:

[omegatrump]

Lazarus, I do not disagree with her statements either. I just think she is late in making them. In fact, I see a lot of people coming late to this party. Another one is Rush Limbaugh. Where was he on this issue and the duplicity of Bush for the past 7 years? He says he was carrying Bush's water. When Bush this past week attacked Limbaugh and all his erstwhile hardcore THEN they decided to join the people who have had their eyes wide open for years. Granted, better late than never. But there is NO WAY I want Noonan or Limbaugh elbowing their way to the head of the opposition, when their epiphany, really, has only occurred in the past month or so. Join us, fine. Support us, fine. Lead us? No. They've got some learning to do first.

Well said!

[BEST45CAL]

Peggy Noonan served on the staff of the 2nd greatest president this country has ever seen - Ronald Reagan... She is and has always been a hard core Reagan Conservative... And she is one of the great conservative minds of our times... I dont understand the reaction Im seeing from some of you here... She is saying nothing that many if not most of us have been saying here since Bush put his knife in our collective back... I agree with her observations...Conservatives made their minds up about Bush a long time before she said anything.

It seems to be her assumption that those who supported him in the past would support him no matter what.

She fails to realize that real republicans don't cling to republicans the way that dims cling to dims. Dims make excuses and cite exceptions for their chosen ones. Republicans will eat their own when they go bad.

Conservatives made up their minds about Bush a long time ago. This latest thing with the amnesty for illegals came as no surprise. That's what I think Noonan doesn't realize.

Noonan's closing sentences were just a bit too dramatic for her own good. We don't need therapy and we don't need anyone to hold our hands. We're not a bunch of snot-nosed toddlers learning how to go potty for the first time.

Just give republicans at least ONE good, solid conservative candidate to nominate and we will go back to the polls and vote.

That's all we want.

[Dowple]

I dont know what Limbaugh you've been listening to, but the one I listen to everyday has been on Bush's back about this immigration betrayal for as long as anyone here has been...

One wonders why you dont include Fred Thompson in your blacklist - He remained quiet for years and has only now resurfaced into the public eye with the upcoming presidential elections - he's now the most popular candidate on this board, but I dont recall him leading the mob to string Bush up... Yet somehow Peggy Noonan must sit in the stocks to redeem herself because she hasnt been vocal enough for you...



About Limbaugh: for years and years, Limbaugh did his darndest to avoid the issue of immigration. I personally heard him hem and haw on his program during the 1992 campaign, the 2000 primary, the 2000 campaign, the 2004 campaign and beyond. He was, as he himself put it, busy "carrying the water" for the Bushes, Rove, and the RNC. But now Limbaugh has come out strongly on our side. This is GOOD. I'm happy about it. Now. But I just wish it had happened earlier, when the prospect of unchecked illegal immigration was already destroying America and before the prospect of an illegal amnesty became the deathknell of the Rupblican Party.

As for Fred Thompson, I haven't had much to say about him, because I don't know much about him. I have said he sounds pretty good. But I think my last couple of posts on the man have been:

I'm not absolutely sure that Fred Thompson is perfectly reliable. He seems more reliable than most. And I don't know what his relationship is to the Neocons. I do know that the Neocons are former Left wing Trotskyists who were also Scoop Jackson type Democrats who became Republicans. They're pro-Open Borders, indifferent to affirmative action and "diversity", pro homosexual rights, pro Outsourcing, and compromisers on Communist China. Where does Fred stand in relation to all that. He seems ok. Which is more than I can say for the biggest lying huckster running for the GOP nomination, Huckabee. (http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showthread.php?p=546654#post546654)

As far as I'm concerned, any support for Fred will depend ENTIRELY on just how much of a Border Hawk he is and if he is willing to enforce EXISTING LAWS and deport illegals found in the US. (http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showthread.php?p=547001#post547001)<!-- / message -->

[Rhino]

About Limbaugh: for years and years, Limbaugh did his darndest to avoid the issue of immigration. I personally heard him hem and haw on his program during the 1992 campaign, the 2000 primary, the 2000 campaign, the 2004 campaign and beyond.He didn't avoid it. Immigration, and amnesty in particular, were not issues in the forefront until the last couple of years. Given that, I wouldn't have expected him to devote much energy to it. The same holds true for pretty much anyone in a media outlet. Prior to a couple of years ago, almost nobody ever mentioned it. About the only related topic discussed with any frequency was the legal guest worker program, which he did talk about. But that's really a seperate issue from what's going on now. Insisting that a major media figure should have devoted time to an issue that wasn't even on the radar screen is a bit ridiculous. Bush hardly even mentioned it in his campaign. And guess what? The party platform for that election was to strengthen the borders, increase enforcement and increase penalties. And wonder of wonders, Rush actually supported it! I know illegal immigration is almost the only topic you care about, but don't let your zeal delude you into thinking that anyone who doesn't expend every breath on it, like you do, is somehow remiss in not agreeing with you.

[Lazarus]

He didn't avoid it. Immigration, and amnesty in particular, were not issues in the forefront until the last couple of years. Given that, I wouldn't have expected him to devote much energy to it. The same holds true for pretty much anyone in a media outlet. Prior to a couple of years ago, almost nobody ever mentioned it. About the only related topic discussed with any frequency was the legal guest worker program, which he did talk about. But that's really a seperate issue from what's going on now. Insisting that a major media figure should have devoted time to an issue that wasn't even on the radar screen is a bit ridiculous. Bush hardly even mentioned it in his campaign. And guess what? The party platform for that election was to strengthen the borders, increase enforcement and increase penalties. And wonder of wonders, Rush actually supported it! I know illegal immigration is almost the only topic you care about, but don't let your zeal delude you into thinking that anyone who doesn't expend every breath on it, like you do, is somehow remiss in not agreeing with you.:claps: I might also add that Rush's defense of Bush up until this issue exploded was defending him against the radical leftist loonies - for which I agree 100% with Rush on...

As much as we here have been watching and lamenting over the invasion from Mexico for years, it didnt come onto the national political radar until Bush tried to actually shove this amnesty program down our throats with a backroom, dark of night, conman deal...

Up until now Bush has simply refused to seal the border and has winked at the Mexicans coming in - Now he is actually taking aggressive steps to make them US Citizens by means of legistlation - That has suddenly racheted up the situation to a very real threat to our national fabric and our culture...

Rush was one of the first I heard to call this legistlation what it is - In fact he was the first one I heard to nationally scream "foul" when the "deal" was being hustled on us... I would go as far as to say that Rush's voice on the radio is the reason why millions of conservative voters found out they were being sold out... I for one am grateful to Rush for his timely actions on this issue...

[Dowple]

He didn't avoid it. Immigration, and amnesty in particular, were not issues in the forefront until the last couple of years.

I suggest you turn on the TV a bit more. Immigration and amnesty have been at the forefront since 9-11. Bush was planning to launch his amnesty scheme, in fact, in 2001 (Bill O'Reilly made a name for himself on the issue back then, too, putting it up in every other show) but was derailed because of the popular revolt against it and the terror bombings. Perhaps because I have had immigration as a front and center concern, personally, since the 1986 amnesty I am indeed a bit more sensitive to its permutations. I know I picked up on Bush's amnesty promises in the 2000 primary. Many of us in Texas, in fact, told all of you about what was coming, because we saw what Bush did as governor to destroy a vibrant, true conservative movement that then dominated the party, which was led by Tom Pauken. Read what Pauken has to say (http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:54rhqAg0VtUJ:chroniclesmagazine.org/Chronicles/November2004/1104Pauken.html+tom+pauken&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us) about what Bush, Rove, and Rick Perry did in Texas.

BTW, if immigration is the issue I am mainly concerned about, why are you so offended by it?

[Rhino]

I'm not offended about it. You just seem to not be able to let go of it, and sometimes it seems like you think anyone who does not agree with you 100% is somehow deserving of attacks and slander. I don't recall Bush ever mentioning amnesty in the 2000 election, although I don't discount the possibility. It wasn't even in any of the references I could find to his campaign platform. And again, it was not a forefront issue, except maybe to you. To the nation as a whole, it was not, and so expecting media figures to devote more time to it would be unrealistic. I'm not saying it shouldn't have been more in the forefront. I think current events indicate that maybe it should have been. I'm just saying that it wasn't, other than being mentioned in occasional passing. But, whether we like it or not, stuff like that does not garner much attention from major media figures. That's not a fault of theirs. That's just the way it works. I'm sure there are some people out there who think that the plight of the California flying gnat is the most important issue on earth right now, but that doesn't mean that someone in the media is at fault for not devoting a lot of time to it.

[Lazarus]

For Rhino's edification... This is Peggy Noonan...

[Dowple]

I'm not offended about it. You just seem to not be able to let go of it, and sometimes it seems like you think anyone who does not agree with you 100% is somehow deserving of attacks and slander.

Yes, it's true I shall not let go of the issue, because the invasion of one's nation by tens of millions of citizens from another country is of foremost concern to me. More than Iraq. More than taxes. More than, even, abortion, albeit the wholesale abortion of citizen children over the past few decades does figure prominently in the entire question of immigration. More than gun control, although the proliferation of illegal alien gangs probably means we'll all be needing more weapons, not less.

As for the "attacks and slander" bit, please cite an example where I slandered or attacked someone. If I did so, I'll apologize. I usually try to state my position simply and forthrightly. Heck, much of the time, I just post an article and a link and leave things at that. Why? Because I've actually given up on ever convincing people one way or another on this issue. We're at the pass, where what will happen will, indeed, happen. And nothing I can say to anyone or do will stop the track of history. We've gone too far. The enemy is in our streets, literally. Racial conflict, riot, budget implosion, cultural suicide, or all out civil war. If it's going to happen, nothing we say or do on these boards will stop it. (See, that's just my straighforward belief, not slander, not an attack.)

[The_Elucidator]

I'm not offended about it. You just seem to not be able to let go of it, and sometimes it seems like you think anyone who does not agree with you 100% is somehow deserving of attacks and slander.

Pretty much spot on! There are folks whose #1 issues are, in no particular order: Abortion, 2A, Immigration, Economy, Taxes, National Security... The list goes on but the passion is still the same.

I'm of the mindset that it doesn't matter how tight you seal the borders here, how many troops you send to Iraq, how open the gun laws are, how strict we are on drugs, how low the taxes are, how many people are employed...all this don't mean jack in the eyes of God as long as we are slaughtering millions of innocent babies.

So Dowple; you keep on harping about your borders and how holy you are and how you have been on the bandwagon since day one because your issue is in the lime light. But even the end of the world nuts will eventually be right...someday!

[maxparrish]

I dont know what Limbaugh you've been listening to, but the one I listen to everyday has been on Bush's back about this immigration betrayal for as long as anyone here has been...

One wonders why you dont include Fred Thompson in your blacklist - He remained quiet for years and has only now resurfaced into the public eye with the upcoming presidential elections - he's now the most popular candidate on this board, but I dont recall him leading the mob to string Bush up... Yet somehow Peggy Noonan must sit in the stocks to redeem herself because she hasn't been vocal enough for you...

I dont get it...:unsmile:

Laz,

I get it. Some of the posters are either uninformed about Ms. Noonan's writings over the years, or too consumed by 'me hate Bush' bitterness to do anything more than turn on their own - even the OBVIOUSLY right minded individuals.

This kind of eating one's own happened with the communists when they became disillusioned. As ex-communists they spent YEARs spitting at other ex-communists for either leaving the party to EARLY or to LATE (see the book, the Romance of American Communism). Apparently every 'ex-communist' felt that the particular moment in history they saw the light was the only 'right moment'. (e.g. NAZI-Cominterm pact, or Moscow purge trials or the killing of Trotsky, or the Ukrainian famine, etc.).

There are those that defended Bush against fellow conservatives - I don't recall that Peggy has been one of them. There are those that simply hoped he was a conservative, but had doubts (I was one of those). There are those that thought Bush was controllable...and would find his footing.

SO WHAT? We all had our personal moments of giving up on the man - mine was somewhere between 2003 and 2005. I never thought he had a clue as to the meaning of conservatism, but I hoped his association with real conservatives would give him a foundation. He provided immune to abstract reasoning - so be it.

So NOW she is making a simple point - we have to take our party back. NOT just from Bush, but from RINO's and SQUISHEES. Reagan eventually defeated the Ford & Bush (the first) weasels and its time we think about how to do it now.

Stop bitching, start working. Don't act like a dried up embittered old ex communist - that is not useful to anyone.

[omegatrump]

As a former supporter and proponant of Rush, I would just like to say that Rush at one time seemed to be a conservative. I helped get him on at least 3 radio stations. Now I feel a little ashamed of my self.

I listened to Rush change as he began to support Bush before his first run for the Presidency. I continued to listen to him until it was apparent that he was nothing but a chear leader for the RNC and the Bush camp. Oh yea, occasionaly he covers himself with some dissent over this or that.

Rush Limbaugh has a job to do. His job is to corral and contain. Bush will soon be history. Rush needs to keep his job, so finally he is trying to re align himself with the Conservative Causes so he can keep his little electric fence around his listeners lest they stray to a more formidable cheer leader. He can't let them get away from the one party system.

Edit: Sorry, this thread is about noonan, Oh well same principle applies.

[Dowple]

So Dowple; you keep on harping about your borders and how holy you are and how you have been on the bandwagon since day one because your issue is in the lime light. But even the end of the world nuts will eventually be right...someday!

If you want to make me angry with insults, you're going to have to try a lot harder than that.

[Suzie]

Pretty much spot on! There are folks whose #1 issues are, in no particular order: Abortion, 2A, Immigration, Economy, Taxes, National Security... The list goes on but the passion is still the same.

I'm of the mindset that it doesn't matter how tight you seal the borders here, how many troops you send to Iraq, how open the gun laws are, how strict we are on drugs, how low the taxes are, how many people are employed...all this don't mean jack in the eyes of God as long as we are slaughtering millions of innocent babies.

So Dowple; you keep on harping about your borders and how holy you are and how you have been on the bandwagon since day one because your issue is in the lime light. But even the end of the world nuts will eventually be right...someday!

That's true. But there are people who seem to switch around on what's most important. These writers and talking heads have to change what they focus on because all of what they write can't be about the same thing they can have no real core. They won't make any money that way. So they must be a shell and follow the climate or try to create a spectacle that will get peoples attention based on what they think will sell the most. They are media, just like all media anymore they don't want to tell people about or give opinions on newsworthy items, many times they do their best to be a news item ... because that sells what they are publishing.

[Rhino]

Yes, it's true I shall not let go of the issue, because the invasion of one's nation by tens of millions of citizens from another country is of foremost concern to me. More than Iraq. More than taxes. More than, even, abortion, albeit the wholesale abortion of citizen children over the past few decades does figure prominently in the entire question of immigration. More than gun control, although the proliferation of illegal alien gangs probably means we'll all be needing more weapons, not less.I don't fault your position. In many ways I agree with it. I think sometimes you reach the level of beating a dead horse, but there's nothing inherently wrong with passion and zeal. It can be taken too far though.

As for the "attacks and slander" bit, please cite an example where I slandered or attacked someone. If I did so, I'll apologize.It's usually more a matter of ridicule and derision. Admittedly there are people who are well deserving of that sometimes, but you seem to often apply it liberally whenever one does not agree with your position, or doesn't support it with the same zeal as you, such as with your claims about Rush. It's not his fault that he isn't a one-issue person like you.

I usually try to state my position simply and forthrightly. Heck, much of the time, I just post an article and a link and leave things at that. Why? Because I've actually given up on ever convincing people one way or another on this issue. We're at the pass, where what will happen will, indeed, happen. And nothing I can say to anyone or do will stop the track of history. We've gone too far. The enemy is in our streets, literally. Racial conflict, riot, budget implosion, cultural suicide, or all out civil war. If it's going to happen, nothing we say or do on these boards will stop it. (See, that's just my straighforward belief, not slander, not an attack.)I know. But has it occurred to you that you might even be hurting your cause? Some people get sick of hearing it repeated over and over and over again. It strikes me that you might actually be turning your audience off rather than turning them on. That's particularly true when you start being insulting toward anyone who does not march lockstep with your position. That's likely to result in people ignoring you rather than agreeing with you. You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[The_Elucidator]

If you want to make me angry with insults, you're going to have to try a lot harder than that.

If you think that I was trying to insult you, then you don't know insults! :evilgrin: I save insults for trolls, not people that I am ultimately on the same side with!

[Dowple]

I know. But has it occurred to you that you might even be hurting your cause? Some people get sick of hearing it repeated over and over and over again. It strikes me that you might actually be turning your audience off rather than turning them on. That's particularly true when you start being insulting toward anyone who does not march lockstep with your position. That's likely to result in people ignoring you rather than agreeing with you. You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

OK, we have common ground. But, as for repitition, most of my posts go into the "Immigration Forum," or quickly get put there. That seems appropriate. If someone is sick of hearing about immigration, shouldn't they avoid the immigration forum? And, actually, you might be surprised to see how relatively little I actually do post on this board. There are long stretches of time when I may come here and read a few comments and never contribute anything. When my favorite topic comes up, as it has recently, I do make a lot of contributions. But I doubt if, overall, I contribute much more than one single post per day, on average. BTW, I don't think I insulted Rush or Noonan in THIS thread. I said what they were doing was GOOD and SUPPORTIVE. I even said I agreed with what Noon writes here. I think it was another poster or two who went out after Noonan with deep passion. Not I. My point merely was that they were not in position to lead on the issue, because they had tacitly supported Bush for so many years--and his amnesty was the logical result of that support.

[Rhino]

Fair enough.

[Lazarus]

...I get it. Some of the posters are either uninformed about Ms. Noonan's writings over the years, or too consumed by 'me hate Bush' bitterness to do anything more than turn on their own - even the OBVIOUSLY right minded individuals.

This kind of eating one's own happened with the communists when they became disillusioned. As ex-communists they spent YEARs spitting at other ex-communists for either leaving the party to EARLY or to LATE (see the book, the Romance of American Communism). Apparently every 'ex-communist' felt that the particular moment in history they saw the light was the only 'right moment'. (e.g. NAZI-Cominterm pact, or Moscow purge trials or the killing of Trotsky, or the Ukrainian famine, etc.).

There are those that defended Bush against fellow conservatives - I don't recall that Peggy has been one of them. There are those that simply hoped he was a conservative, but had doubts (I was one of those). There are those that thought Bush was controllable...and would find his footing.

SO WHAT? We all had our personal moments of giving up on the man - mine was somewhere between 2003 and 2005. I never thought he had a clue as to the meaning of conservatism, but I hoped his association with real conservatives would give him a foundation. He provided immune to abstract reasoning - so be it.

So NOW she is making a simple point - we have to take our party back. NOT just from Bush, but from RINO's and SQUISHEES. Reagan eventually defeated the Ford & Bush (the first) weasels and its time we think about how to do it now.

Stop bitching, start working. Don't act like a dried up embittered old ex communist - that is not useful to anyone.Well put, Max... Thanks...

As a former supporter and proponant of Rush, I would just like to say that Rush at one time seemed to be a conservative. I helped get him on at least 3 radio stations. Now I feel a little ashamed of my self.Well, maybe you can help him find his way back on the path of enlightenment...

The day has actually come when someone is accusing Rush Limbaugh of being a non-Conservative... And how bout that charlitan, William F. Buckley?

Is there some heavy sun spot activity or a full moon or sumpin goin on today? :rolleyes:

[Bluemoon_Rising]

Noonan has finally said it -- it's official now, what many of us have thought and believed. We came to it incrementally -- policy by policy -- until there was no way to deny it any longer.

Bush, you friggin' idiot, you've managed to destroy in less than eight years the coalition that it took thirty years for Goldwater and Reagan to build.

We -- the common folk of liberty -- have the right of it, you jackass!

[omegatrump]

The day has actually come when someone is accusing Rush Limbaugh of being a non-Conservative... And how bout that charlitan, William F. Buckley?

Is there some heavy sun spot activity or a full moon or sumpin goin on today? :rolleyes:



Oh, the day came long ago, and we havn't heard much out of the ancient William since he made his views known about the Iraq war.

To "carry the water" for the shrub he had to move left of center.

[DesertFox]

Dude, you as usual don't know what you're talking about.